The fiery path to self-destructive behaviour doesn’t always originate at the movie hall.
I submitted, recently, to a brief interview about the probability that Agneepath caused a young Chennai schoolboy to plunge a knife into his teacher to avenge himself of an apparent slight. The question, in other words, was the oft-repeated one: Do violent movies shape a violent society? I said I did not know, but added that it is perhaps a little too easy to pick on movies or literature or corrosive rock music and absolve the viewer and the reader and the listener of blame. While the film was possibly the spark that ignited this horrific action, the boy surely dwelt in a psychological tinderbox for a period far longer than the film’s recent release. After all, there are so many others – children, adults – who saw the film without incurring the urge for violent retaliation. It’s not as if the sale of guns and knives shot up after the film came out, like how Hum Aapke Hain Koun! fostered the sale of saris in a particularly violent shade of violet, which Madhuri Dixit was draped in while immortalising herself in Didi tera devar deewana.

The interviewer asked me, then, if the film’s rating was the problem. There is, of course, the incident of a young boy shooting a cop, but there are also lynch mobs baying for a death by hanging, along with a number of shootouts. Just so that things don’t become too monotonous, we are treated to the violence unleashed by an army of sword-wielding eunuchs and a death by enforced drowning. How can such a film be rated U/A, the local version of the PG-13 rating, which allows that children can see the film provided they are accompanied by an adult? That, I concede, is a problem. In India, we do not care about ratings. I have, in my younger years, watched a hideous number of entirely inappropriate films – not just because they feature deaths and rape scenes, but also due to mature subject matter – and not once have I been stopped at the door. (The man seated beside me at the Agneepath screening decided to do one better. He’d brought along his infant. Didn’t he know better than to subject those delicate ears to such a shatteringly loud movie experience?)
But here I am, decades later, untouched by the long arm of the Indian Penal Code. And I can speak, too, for several of my friends, those wonderfully complicit people who were my comrades-in-crime in those theatre-going years. The only time the happenings on screen percolated into their lives was when they stationed themselves, shyly, at strategic street corners hoping for a run-in with the subjects of their dreams. If everyone did exactly what their filmic counterparts did, then I would have ballooned to twice my size today, with my mother having greeted my every accomplishment with an arm extending a bowl of gajar ka halwa. I – along with those around me – grew up with the knowledge that life was life and cinema was cinema. You cannot blame the circus if an excited member of the audience runs home and decides to balance himself on the clothesline in the terrace. The problem lies with his sense of reality.
Besides, even if these films were R-rated and this rating was enforced with the diligence of an army chief planning a surprise invasion, there’s nothing that can pry away reality-challenged adults from toxic simulations of actions on screen. Martin Scorsese’s Taxi Driver, which featured an alienated young man who plans a political assassination, was a worldwide success, seen by millions of viewers, only one of whom – John Hinckley, Jr. – latched on to the idea that he could impress Jodie Foster, the object of his obsession, by assassinating Ronald Reagan. Not every fan of Ashok Kumar and Humphrey Bogart ended up married to a packet of cigarettes. This isn’t to say that films do not influence human behaviour. They do so, at times, in good ways too – the impact of Rang De Basanti on aspects of the Jessica Lal case has been widely noted. But at the end of the day, it’s not art that needs to be responsible. It’s the audience.
Lights, Camera, Conversation… is a weekly dose of cud-chewing over what Satyajit Ray called Our Films Their Films. An edited version of this piece can be found here.
Copyright ©2012 The Hindu. This article may not be reproduced in its entirety without permission. A link to this URL, instead, would be appreciated.
Zico Ghosh
February 24, 2012
Since, I am the ‘interviewer’ mentioned in the column, I would like to leave the first comment.
MumbaiRamki
February 24, 2012
” But at the end of the day, it’s not art that needs to be responsible. It’s the audience.”
You can safely discount the effect of religion, caste , books the same way – it always happens with the audience . But the question is from what age , what content , by whom . The genes, the environment , the peer social groups , prolonged cirumstances in and around an event , childhood experiences that went inside unedited are all reasons – but films need to be responsible in not creating the triggers – there could be some loss of art there , but a bit of sacrifice is necessary for good of society – exactly how much , nobody can define !
Movies like books are different – you are taken a to a dark room with 1000 others , shown a story where at one level , you have to connect with it , without being one with it – you don’t have time to edit what your mind takes on and by the time movie is over , it doesn’t matter what age you are – a wrong approach to seing movies would have already filled and activated some set of patterns in ur brain . So this way also , a bit of restraint is better .
KayKay
February 25, 2012
” but films need to be responsible in not creating the triggers – there could be some loss of art there , but a bit of sacrifice is necessary for good of society”
And with such noble intentions are the seeds of censorship sown.
Only one problem,to quote the Roman poet Juvenal,
“Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?” (Who Watches The Watchmen?) Who regulates the regulators of good taste and moral decency?
rameshram
February 24, 2012
Yeah! Agree Completely!
Movies these days make me so mad I think Im going to go and assasinate something.
I think it will be a moose.
mahabore
February 25, 2012
I completely agree with BR and have huge issues with the comment posted by MumbaiRamki. Sir, if you are mature enough to understand that movies end up influencing you a little more than they probably should, then you should be mature enough to select movies which you believe will not influence you the wrong way.
Absolutely will not agree with anybody who is of the opinion that cinema and movie makers need to be more responsible, etc. Like BR says, these ‘so called’ influential movies have existed in thousands over the years, whereas the people who have been so affected by these movies to take conclusive action based on them have been few and far in between.
Cheers……..mahabore
Niranjan
February 25, 2012
This topic was reminds me of a line from the movie ‘Quills’. Geoffrey Rush playing the irrepressible Marquis de Sade is accused by the young priest played by Joaquin Phoenix of making society a more dangerous place through his lurid pulp writings, and the Marquis retorts, “If a man drowns attempting to walk on water, do you hold the bible responsible for his tragedy?”
KayKay
February 25, 2012
““If a man drowns attempting to walk on water, do you hold the bible responsible for his tragedy?”
Awesome! Another reason to like the Marquis:-)
MumbaiRamki
February 25, 2012
Kaykay ,
Censorship is like laws – they are never perfect but they are always required .at some level.Who watches the police is not a reason not to have someone to enforce law . Isn’t it ?
mahabore ,
My point was not for us – but more about younger generation. Our brain has become crystallised that even given a choice of malika sherawat and cup of wine , we always select malika sherawat with a wine in her hand . Didn’t the article start with the murder by a teen ? Im against putting a singular blame on movies – but as a constituent of a composite factor it does affect the malleable brains . For the record , the guy who murdered the teacher did attribute his tipping point to agnee path movie .But , that’s only the tipping point in the curve – you have the rest of factors i mentioned in the curve
Again , as far it doesn’t affect our folks , we always apply our intellect rather than the heart . Let’s take this problem very close either to the teacher or the guy , our perspective would titlt towards the other .
KayKay
February 25, 2012
“Censorship is like laws – they are never perfect but they are always required .at some level”
No, they’re not.
You’re equating the enforcement and policing of rules to govern the behaviours of real people in a real world to restrictions placed on mostly fictious happenings in works of art largely decided arbitrarily by a select group of people whose views may not be reflective or out-of-step with current tastes?
If the “wiring upstairs” is faulty, the trigger that sparks aberrant behaviour could be anything. A fly on the wall, smelling a certain fragrance, the sight of blood, a glimpse of a sharp instrument, pretty much ANYTHING, you dig? It’s just easy to place the blame on a scene from a film here, or lyrics from a song there.
Just out of curiosity, what slasher movie do you suppose Jack The Ripper saw? Caligula watched too much porn, you think? Attila The Hun listened to a lot of hip-hop you reckon? Pol Pot played too much Grand Theft Auto?
Rate the material so the public’s informed, enforce it so dipshit parents aren’t sitting in the theatre with their 3 year old spawns watching Zombies Vs. Ninja and last but not least, exercise some freaking common sense and practice self-censorship if you find the material offensive. Just don’t bleeding tell me what I should or shouldn’t watch.
rameshram
February 26, 2012
But Kay Kay , You Will admit that I drive you into an abusive rage of frothing from your mouth , that has been unequalled by anybody before or since.
Hence, QED. er…and….QED.
MumbaiRamki
February 25, 2012
““If a man drowns attempting to walk on water, do you hold the bible responsible for his tragedy?”
No – i wil blame the person who gave the bible to the ‘teen’ who drowned . Honestly , none of you had an image of drowning here – u had imgained a middle aged man – isn’t it
))))
MumbaiRamki
February 25, 2012
“Movies these days make me so mad I think Im going to go and assasinate something.”
Sir , unga commentum blogum pothumae .. thaniyaa vera assasination a
))
chumma , kalachen – liked ur humor in this – like a twist in the short story
rameshram
February 25, 2012
Mumbai ramki
thats why this kolaveri di
Chetana Panikkar
February 26, 2012
Mumbai ramki, BR sir, agree with you:
These five are taken from your sires,
Six summers from the womb:
Your length of days, your fate, your wealth,
Your learning, and your tomb.
– Panchatantra
(refd from What Do Your Say After You Say Hello – Eric Berne)
Rameshram
February 26, 2012
Here’s another angle for Mumbai Ramki what would be the state of people like shahrukh khan( who plays stalker in every film ) and dhanush( who snaps in every film) after all their film experiences? Surely they are complete kayanda cases by now…( I’m only half joking about shahrukh khan)
vivek
February 26, 2012
I heard from a journo in twitter that the police specifically asked the boy if he watch any films recently. And he answered Agneepath. And you can guess what their next question might have been.. We need someone to put the blame on when something like this happens.. media and films are the easy prey..
KayKay
February 26, 2012
“But Kay Kay , You Will admit that I drive you into an abusive rage of frothing from your mouth”
Huh?? Are you and Mumbai Ramki one and the same (doubt it, as his posts carry an eloquence and clarity I’ve rarely seen in yours mwahahahahaha….) as that particular rebuttal was for his pro-censorship stance, something that almost always curdles the milk of human kindness in my soul, not that I’ve anything against the Mumbai Express personally.
As for you Rams, my 2012 resolution is to just accept and tolerate your inanities, the way I do air pollution, traffic jams, stale pizza, rude waiters and Adam Sandler flicks
pr3m
March 31, 2012
Rude waiters, you’re so right. Fuck rude waiters, man.
rameshram
February 26, 2012
like this.^ above post. QED
Anu Warrier
February 26, 2012
Sharmila Tagore once said (when she was head of the Censor Board, and was being excoriated for having passed some film or the other with whatever certificate it got) that today, someone, somewhere always chooses to get offended – if you were to cut out the ‘offending’ scenes, then you may as well not make a movie.
Add me to the list of those who believe that I do not want anyone telling me what I should see; rate the films so I know what I’m getting into, enforce the rules if I’m stupid enough to bring my six-year-old to a movie he *shouldn’t* be seeing, and then, let. it. go.
At what point will censorship ‘for the good of the people’ stop? And who gets to decide the ‘good of the people’?? (As an aside, if I had my way the Passion of Christ would have been banned for simply being an awful film; think how the thousands who went to see it and had a cathartic experience would have reacted!)
MumbaiRamki
February 27, 2012
@Anu Warrier ,
I have issues with the Ratings and age also . How do they decide something is for PG-13 /18? Someone can flip the same question here . But i understand , you get artistic freedom to film what you want and leave it to the viewer of what he wants to see ( assumingly he knows what he wants – but even here , we agree that we know what a 13 year old should not see )
And it is funny when they say , ‘ See it with parental guidance’ – it is like how my mom told me when she saw A certificate for a movie ‘ Close your eyes , when i tell so ‘ . And this has to be supported with a curb in all forms ( DVD , Channels , magazines ) etc – there is no point in just rating a movie for PG and showing it in HBO with a 2 sec notice that its R rated movie .
And to a larger picture , is R rated movie which is fit for viewing for age groups 18 years in US be applied to our 18 year olds ? Are they the same ? I don’t think so . My understanding of US is very limited , but i find it very difficult to even allow a thing like WWF and call it as freedom of expression – it is no different from what Roman emperors did .
Not to miss the crucial difference – if they censor a movie based on sexual , violent content , gay/lesbians – that’s one thing . But if they censor a movie an honest movie on Babri Masjid, thats another – both have different modes of thinking as i see .
KayKay ,
“As for you Rams, my 2012 resolution is to just accept and tolerate your inanities, the way I do air pollution, traffic jams, stale pizza, rude waiters and Adam Sandler flicks”
Perfect line for a movie like Kadhalil sothapuvadhu eppadi . I enjoyed this line , LOLed – May be the Ram(esh) Ram forgive me for that .
KayKay
February 28, 2012
” I enjoyed this line , LOLed – May be the Ram(esh) Ram forgive me for that
My pleasure. And FYI, there’s nothing for you to apologise. The initial comment on censorship was yours. My rebuttal was to your comments specifically
Shiva Poojaiyile Karadi Nuzhanja mathiri, Ramsu came in to blabber on about how HIS posts gets me all murderously abusive (because in the end…everything’s about HIM…you see….)
. That’s why I threw that line in (but you know what they say about casting pearls…at least you appreciated the wit…romba thanks)
Never mind…ethachu sollittu pogattum. He needs to deal with his issues and I have a 2012 resolution to keep:-)
Peace out, brother!
rameshram
February 28, 2012
froth froth froth!
MumbaiRamki
February 27, 2012
“You’re equating the enforcement and policing of rules to govern the behaviours of real people in a real world to restrictions placed on mostly fictious happenings in works of art largely decided arbitrarily by a select group of people whose views may not be reflective or out-of-step with current tastes?”
Let me take this in two steps .
1) The censorship is indeed on fictious happening , but the reflection of that is on the sub conscious of real men . But thats again, very debatable – there are so many factors that make up what is called as ‘mind’ and what drives him into a particular event. What im driving a point is that , at an age where you things go unedited to your mind (or) if you have society where there is more probability of things going unedited because of the emotional perceptions is more , censor it – Rating is good, but you need to ensure it is done and executed properly . Who does that ? – Open question .
2) The second is about people who actually do the censor . I think there are some laid down rules in censorship but from what i read earlier, it is outdated and you can interpret it as per your whims and fancies . So this requires a more Qualified board including a good sociologist and a board trained by a psychyologist:)
PS : Can i rock boat here ? In VN college in madurai , when it was men’s college , the pass percentage was 80 %. After it was made Co-ed , it became 60 % . So is having a gender based college better or bitter butter ? Added to that , all these top institutions in India that shine have skewed gender proportions
( If you are breathing fast , this is to make the discussion lighter
)
PS to All : Language is too good – for a long time , i didnt visit BR’s blog, due to work pressure – i get a feeling of reading a literature after reading chetan Bhagat novel
KayKay
February 27, 2012
“If you are breathing fast , this is to make the discussion lighter”
Not to worry, all discussions involving the opposite sex accelerate my breathing and results in tumescence…..of the mind of course
moonspel
February 27, 2012
and then there was A Clockwork Orange which Kubrick himself aided in banning thanks to a spate of mindlessly violent crimes that occurred after the release of the film. or the whole Shaktiman incident. I’m just an average movie viewer and I KNOW i’ve been influenced deeply by one or the other film at some point or the other. (Fight Club, maybe?) The degrees of influence may vary. But stories always affect us. That’s what they do. Which little girl hasn’t been influenced by Cinderella or Snow White or any of that drivel. Which boy hasn’t at some time or the other wanted to be a Super Man or drive one of those Fast and Furious cars or be like one of those long haired blokes from Slayer? We Are The Stories We’ve Heard. And ironically the stories also stem from us, bringing us back to the Keats-ian debate of whether art draws from life or life from art.
I don’t think the question is as simple as ‘Do we emulate what we see at the movies?’ There are probably deeper sociological and psychological elements at play. I can’t claim to have any answers all I’m saying is maybe you should ask the right-er questions, Interviewer.
But really, waddoo I know? =P
Anu Warrier
February 27, 2012
@Mumbai Ramki – I agree that the ratings in the US are not flawless. But they do try. What they do is to enforce those ratings, so parental responsibility also comes into the picture. “We think this is a bit above what a 13-year-old should see, but we leave it to you to decide whether *your* 13-year-old is mature enough to view it.” Which I think is a sensible way of looking at things. All 13-year-olds not being the same.
And the ratings system is based on a broad age group – PG13 is for 13-year-olds (with parental guidance, which means they expect an adult with them) and older. Pictures rated ‘R’ need you to be 17 (with an adult along) or older, and they can (and do) ask you for your id.
See, here, even with a parent, a young(ish) child wouldn’t be allowed into an R-rated movie. You would be politely informed that he /she / it cannot be allowed in. So the question of “close your eyes when I tell you to” doesn’t arise. As for DVDs, yes, they are also rated. And once the film is in your home, it is up to you to enforce whatever rule you deem necessary. I decide (at home) what my children can watch. And you can block TV channels here, you know. (It’s called parental controls.) So there is no way a kid can sneak a peep at an R-rated movie on HBO.
As for whether an 18-year-old in the US is the same as an 18-year-old in India, having lived in both countries, I can tell you they are, as a species, exactly the same! They are as mature / immature, sensible /idiotic, responsible /careless as their Indian counterparts. And believe me, *all* of them are know-it-alls. I suppose we were too, at that age. Oh, and immortal. Don’t forget immortal!
Anu Warrier
February 27, 2012
Oh, and to add to my already long response to Mumbai Ramki – with ratings, some twit with scissors is not deciding for me that I *should not* see something – he’s only going to be able to say “I don’t *think* you should see this if you’re not above 18.” The choice is mine. I can go see whatever it is, and either like it, or get offended by it as the case may be. But it is a *choice* I get to make.
With censorship, anything that offends that man / woman / thing is going to be axed – whether the rest of us would be offended by it or not. Why should anyone else decide for me that I should be offended at a particular footage of violence / sex/ profanity / or anything else for that matter?
rameshram
February 27, 2012
“May be the Ram(esh) Ram forgive me for that .”
Oh LOL I think you have it backwards. I am not affected by Kay kay’s posts at all. but HE seems driven to a murderous rage of abusiveness by my posts. Sometimes I like to pour some cold water when he gets particularly abusive, but if he’s having a period of lucidity while discussing anything with someone else, I treat it like a respite from all the ranting.
MumbaiRamki
March 1, 2012
@Anu warrier : Fantastic response . Thanks for the insights into how things work there .
I think it again comes back to the fundamental questions of how and if movie affects a mind at what age .
,
. So the discussion stops here and loops back.
Reg other things – let me ask . Just wanted to understand a bit more .Whats the rating of these shows in US ? One is Jerry Springer or something and other is Howard stern’s some show ? I remember and couldn’t stand these shows when i was in US for couple of years
.I think its similar to what Nicholas Carr argues against the facebook/twitter & other technologies unconsciously twist of our subconscious mind to become less attentive by providing an ambience that encourages short attention spans – My thoughts are exactly the same here . We are going to differ here – but i feel increasingly, proliferation of programs this will place undue stress on teens and just adults . They need to have more clarity, focus and strength to disgard what they don’t want – and they have to get these skills very quick !. Again, this deviates from our discussion on censorship to something more generic . But can i safely say that the abaility to choose you have got now was teh result of lesser choices you had earlier
( PS ; How is parental control box implemented ? Is it in remote or set top box with a pasword ?)
Anu Warrier
March 2, 2012
@Mumbai Ramki,
I would argue that if *all* the kid is watching is violence or sex or (insert your choice here), he (for ease of use) is going to be affected in some way or the other. But then, the same holds true for books as well. If all you are ever going to read is a romance novel where the (rich) handsome hero is going to sweep you off your feet and you are then going to live ‘happily ever after’ then you’re never going to completely understand that real life is messy, and rich and handsome princes may sometimes turn into frogs, whereas frogs will *never* turn into rich, handsome princes – no matter how many times you kiss them.
My issue with censorship is that it takes the responsibility away from the individual. “Oh, if they didn’t want me to see it, then they should have censored it.” That takes away from my individual responsibilty to have *chosen* to see something. And because I’m offended by something, it does not necessariy follow that *you* should *also* be offended by the same thing. Who gets to decide what is ‘morals’? Here, in the US, the evangelical right wing are in the process of deciding for me what I should do in my bedroom. That is censorship at its extreme worst. By giving in, however innoccuously, we are setting the foundation of a police state, where a minority has the right to decide the fate of the majority. (Forgive the inclusion of politics, but look at Afghanistan, Iran, heck, even the US (deep south).)
There are certain broad parameters of what is inappropriate, and I think there is a majority consensus on those – you do not want young children exposed to gratuitous violence, or sexual acts – but think, isn’t it *your* responsibility as a parent to see that your child doesn’t get to see this? Why should 12 people (or how many ever) sitting in some dusty office decide that *because* some parents are twits, the general public should *also* not see a film like that? It’s not my cup of tea, and if I see a rating that says ‘R’ or ‘A’ for violence and sex, I can choose to not go. Right? It’s the same issue I have with books being banned. Now, someone gets to decide what I, as an adult, read?? Really?
As for Twitter and FB, being one of the anachronistic tree dwellers who have not signed on for either, I cannot comment. As you can see from my rather long responses, I’m not an eligible candidate for Twitter.
Parental controls work on the set-top box. You tick off the channels that you do not want accessed, and protect them with a password. So there is no fear that your child will inadvertently watch an inappropriate programme. But,w ith everything so freely available on the Internet, I wonder how much these controls help.
Niranjan
March 4, 2012
The documentary, “This Film is not yet rated” reveals a lot more about what happens in the ‘snip-snip’ room; if goes a little beyond someone being offended/outraged by the contents of a film. If you know the ‘right’ contacts then you can get away with a lighter rating. In any case, a small body whose members are kept secret and whose decisions can affect a whole lot, would invariably abuse its power.
MumbaiRamki
March 4, 2012
Niranjan ,
Any links please ?
Niranjan
March 4, 2012
I had seen the movie while in the US through Netflix; I don’t know if I saw any links on youtube.