THE BIG GRAPPLE
The point of conflict in this frustrating thriller isn’t terrorists vs. innocents so much as pretty stars vs. proficient actors.
JUN 28, 2009 – WHEN YOU’RE SUSPECTED OF ABETTING TERRORISM and when, under the cloak of interrogation, you’re stripped and bludgeoned and collared with a dog-leash and urinated on – or, on a good day, merely verbally abused – does this humiliation justify your turning to terrorism after you’re let go, if only to get back at the bastards? That’s the tricky (though not exactly timely) question hovering over Kabir Khan’s New York, which is set in the titular city in aftermath of 9/11, when scores of innocents were detained and destroyed under the Patriot Act. In his first feature, the modestly accomplished Kabul Express, Khan sought to put a human face on the Taliban, and here, he seeks to similarly humanise the Muslims who are routinely vilified as terrorist scum. Who are they? How do they get to be this way? And if you’re a Muslim-American, are you a Muslim first or an American?
Armed with this sobering agenda, would you go off and populate your film with John Abraham, Neil Nitin Mukesh and Katrina Kaif? (There’s Irrfan too, as an FBI agent, effortlessly demonstrating how a good actor can, even while sleepwalking through a role, deliver a decent speech. His mini-oration about how nothing justifies terrorism is easily the closest New York comes to possessing a soul.) About the only thing you can say for this cast is that a love triangle that threatens to break on the horizon is mercifully averted. Otherwise, try watching Katrina’s declaration of love to John and his reciprocation of the sentiment (by a roadside), or try to keep a straight face through the tears that roll down Katrina’s alabaster cheeks as she watches the twin towers reduced to rubble – and you’ll see why stars are stars and actors are actors, and rarely do the twain meet.
Neil, meanwhile, is required to function as audience substitute (the way John Abraham and Arshad Warsi did in Kabul Express), and with his maddeningly innocent bursts of apoplexy, he comes off like the world’s sweetest, saintliest man-child flailing about in a sea of unspeakable vice. (Was he cast only because of the scene where he mouths his grandfather’s immortal Zindagi khwab hai, from Jagte Raho?) But to be fair, it’s hard to think of any actor who could have survived a script this superficial – littered with such soporific lines as, “Sirf college khatam ho raha hai, dosti to nahin” – where every character is rendered cute and cuddly and essentially without edge. Early on, Neil mentions that John, sometimes, appears arrogant, but this is something you have to take at face value, because not once is anyone seen as anything but overwhelmingly sincere and sensitive.
The remainder of the interesting rough edges is smoothened out by the relentlessly manipulative background score, which makes the film feel, at times, like an interminable rock video. As he proved with Kabul Express, Khan’s strengths (or perhaps interests) aren’t in the political so much as the personal, the human. (He stages a scene amidst protesters holding up “Buck Fush” placards and mouthing anti-war chants – but this is simply window-dressing.) He’s the kind of director who uses the big picture as merely the backdrop for an examination of the people in that picture – and how he thought he could get away with this cast is certainly an intriguing question. As with Kabul Express, he delights in location shooting, which is among the rare instances New York comes alive – though what can you really say about a film where the cobblestone pavements show more character than the characters?
Copyright ©2009 The New Sunday Express. This article may not be reproduced in its entirety without permission. A link to this URL, instead, would be appreciated.
Sougata
June 27, 2009
Baradwaj….I was somehow not so disappointed by the movie…in fact I have to admit i found it good…in fact the problems for me with the movie were more about the script and direction (especially the climax) rather than acting. At least for me the actors surpassed whatever benchmark I had for them.
Couldn’t help thinking what kind of movie Mani Ratnam would have delivered with this basic premise.
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Anand
June 27, 2009
BR: It is unfortunate that people like John and Katrina are ‘stars’. They dont even have screen presence. A star is someone who could be a limited actor but atleast he should hold your attention while he is on screen.
Anyway, next week’s Kambakkt Ishq coud turn out to be interesting. It is supposedly inspired by Pammal K Sambhandham. I liked the ides of setting it in Hollywood, so we know what to expect. A masala potboiler that is not apologetic about its genre. Anyway, most of the promising films this year have fallen flat, let us wait and watch!!
(Sankat City is supposedly a masterpiece as per PFC, but I am not seeing any promos at all!!)
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Aly
June 27, 2009
Just what I expected based on the ridiculous trailer.
I was surprised by some of the positive reviews in the media but knew I could count on Rangan.
I just can’t bring myself to pay to see John and Kat trying to be serious.
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Philly fan
June 27, 2009
And what can you say when most of “New York” was actually shot in Philadelphia (other than -it’s the budget, stupid)? It doesn’t really matter probably – just thought it gave a little twist to the last line of your review…but maybe you could say something about “window-dressing” versus authenticity?
How John and Katrina have managed to have major careers in Hindi films has somewhat boggled my mind – neither can act proficiently nor dance. I can’t imagine actors of their caliber achieving what they have in Hollywood, for example.
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Aditya Pant
June 27, 2009
I didn’t find the film obnoxiously bad, but the dialogues were quite cringeworthy. But it was the acting (rather, the lack of it) killed the film for me. Not even once did feel for the characters. How could I when the actors playing the parts themselves did not.
Why on earth did Irrfan’s!character, a US National and FBI agent, keep talking in third person while talking about *his* country and *his* employer?
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Nirmal
June 27, 2009
I think its something that really needs to be discussed – the quality of acting among the male and female leads in hindi films. Almost all the young male leads are so one dimensional, and they have an on screen persona to which they religiously adhere to. While there are guys with screen presence, there are very few ‘director’s ‘ actors as out there, real thespians who can break out of the shell and carry a filmmakers vision by themselves. The female leads are a little bit better overall i think, but how katrina kaif , with here abysmal acting is a top female lead out there is beyond me.
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nik
June 27, 2009
i was so disappointed with mayank on ndtv’s picture this…when he said the film was really good….i wanted a sort of check here…i know its not a good thing to admit..but i cant help myself feeling so virulently against Katrina Kaif…her presence in Bollywood is precisely whats wrong with it..but noone seems to get it…furthermore they seem to encourage it..(hint) prakash jha and Rajniti…and what irritates me the most is when actors say they are very hard working and put a lot of effort into it…its like hard work alone qualifies them to act..its such a clever way of getting around their bad acting…i just watched back to back of Mughal e Azam and Pakeezah….to think kaif has.. not critical but even mass support ..i feel is such an insult to the legacies of those great actresses.
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fillum
June 27, 2009
One wonders what if abhishek and hritik had acted in this movie? One thing is sure, this ste will have positive revew
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magicalsummer
June 27, 2009
katrina’s presence is always simply decorative – she was chosen as ‘barbie’ that should say it all!
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Anand
June 28, 2009
Here, we must mention the camaraderie that Kabir creates among his trio of players. What’s it about able casting that lifts a film notches above its destined caliber? We can’t imagine New York being the crucial work that it is without any other players. – Subhash K Jha in his review.
BR: I badly want to know what you think about this 🙂
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Anand
June 28, 2009
John, Katrina and Neil, all actors, deliver their career-best performance. If the first half belongs to Neil, John takes over the second hour completely. John is superb when he recalls the past. You can feel his pain, that effective is his performance. Also, note his expressions towards the end. This is a different John, for sure. Just one word for his performance — fabulous!
Neil was remarkable in JOHNNY GADDAAR, but disappointed in AA DEKHEN ZARA. Fortunately, he’s in top form this time around. Katrina gives you the biggest surprise. Known for her glamour roles, Katrina proves that she can deliver if the director and writer offer her a role of substance. She’s outstanding. In fact, people will see a new, different Katrina this time.
And this is Taran Adarsh!!
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brangan
June 28, 2009
letter to the paper…
Dear sir
I found type review to be too complex and to be read with a lot of attention and concentration.
I find this a little inappropriate and too serious for a movie review which I would think is an entertainment
Please keep the language simple so that less learned like me can understand and enjoy better
With regards
Prasad
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brangan
June 28, 2009
Anand: Actually, I didn’t care much for PKS (other than a few gags here and there). I thought Panchathanthiram was much funnier. (Though most people I know think the opposite.) There was something very laboured about the premise, and it was stretched beyond belief.
Philly fan: Oh, but that’s geographical fidelity, and I wasn’t talking about that. It’s just nice when a film spends a lot of time outdoors instead of inside palatial mansions.
About actors, it’s not just Bollywood but also the Tamil film industry where you find the prettiest of faces with next-to-nothing screen presence or talent. One of the most painful aspects of watching Tamil films (for me) is to see that the actors cannot even lip-sync their dialogues in close-ups. I think Malayalam cinema is the only place you can find “genuine” actors who know the language and know a bit of acting as well.
nik: You’re bringing in Mughal-e-Azam into *this* discussion? 🙂
Anand: About SKJ’s review, if that’s what he thought and felt, then good for him. Not being politically correct or anything, but different things work for different people. My mom, for instance, cannot bear to see films like Hey Ram and keeps lamenting about why Kamal can’t make movies like he used to. (i.e. like Salangai Oli and such). I don’t even try to argue 🙂
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karthik
June 28, 2009
Rangan…Sasikumar’s next Nadodigal is out now! Any plans??
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Raja Sen
June 28, 2009
Thank heavens, I was beginning to believe maybe I’d watched the wrong movie after all the rapturous reviews.
And as for location shooting, most of it was shot in Philadelphia. 🙂
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Raj Balakrishnan
June 28, 2009
What has this movie got to do with India? Every Yashraj/Karan Johar movie (well, most of them atleast) nowadays is set in the US/Europe or any other overseas location – there is very little of Indian/Hindu culture in their movies. When was the last time you saw a Hindu temple in Yashraj/Karan Joker movie – DDLJ or Kuch Kuch Hota hai? When was the last time you saw a lead character in their movies following Hindu traditions? Just to attract Pakistani and Middle East audiences these unpatriotic idiots have decided to abandon their Hindu culture/faith. Now both these jokers are making movies about the travails of muslims in the USA. Why not a movie on the troubles of the Kashmiri Hindus? I was pretty glad when all of yashraj’s films bombed last year. Patriotic Indians have to teach these traitors a lesson.
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Nirmal
June 28, 2009
The fact that actors like john or katrina have attained success speaks a lot about the kind of roles that are scripted in a majority of hindi films. Almost always so cool and hip that it aches, almost always so refined, so polished.where would i go if i were a filmmaker and i need an established lead to play someone ‘ordinary’ , a government employee in a obscure office or a local grocery vendor , who may not mouth the most witty dialogues and who may not be dressed in Gucci? Or a college kid , who is not automatically the most popular or the best dancer or singer , a simple guy with nothing special to brag.?or a farmer on the outskirts of mumbai with no dashes of heroism? thats something i miss a lot sometimes in bollywood , a certain degree of earthiness , a certain identification with the ordinary day to day lives that lot of us lead .
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brangan
June 28, 2009
karthik: Yeah, I want to catch it — though after my long eassy on the new Tamil cinema, I doubt I’ll write something especially about this film. Have you seen it?
Nirmal: I’m not sure I entirely agree. The “cool and hip” is the prevalent trend, I agree, because the multiplex model has placed the big city in the forefront and the smaller centres have become all but invisible. (If you’re going to make 75% of your money through high-priced tickets in the plexes, why would you risk catering to the smaller centres?)
But that said, you do find a lot of small-budget films like ‘A Wednesday’ and ‘Dasvidaniya’ and ‘Welcome to Sajjanpur’ and ‘Mithya’ and ‘My Brother Nikhil’ — where the ordinary (i.e. non-hip and non-cool) man is up front and centre. And there are actors playing these parts (Ranvir, Vinay, Konkona), who have a dedicated following. But whether a Vinay Pathak can pull in the crowds that a John Abraham can (and whether that state of events is fair) is another discussion altogether.
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Srikanth
June 28, 2009
Rangan..the background score might have been an incessant rock show.But I liked the Junoon song.
I even did a review of the OST
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Arif Attar
June 28, 2009
I thought it was common knowledge that the Junoon song is a rip-off as are most of Pritam’s songs. The good ones, anyways.
Nice to see Mr. Sen’s comment. For some reason, he seems to be the most hated reviewer in cyberworld.
And, are you on Twitter BR?
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Nirmal
June 29, 2009
I was not saying such films are not there at all, but they are a bit too few and far in between. When compared to the volume of films being churned out, they are a bit too few.and i dont really agree either that multiplex audiences may not accept such films . Its the same multiplex culture that we are creditting with many a changing conventions in hindi cinema. Its also the same multiplex audience that many quality filmmakers in smaller film industries like malayalam lament that they dont have the luxury of.
“whether vinay pathak can pull in crowds like john abraham” no. But thats something thats always seen in film industry, quality actors may not always be the biggest crowd pullers. But what about the vice versa situation ? I dont expect the stars to be the greatest actors but they should make the cut somehow no? Its important because these so called are easily the most ‘sellable’ commodities in cinema and they can make a film commercially viable on their own. But if they are not capable of doing quality work in quality films then those films are at a disadvantage at the box office. For eg , mithya may have been more of a commercial success perhaps with a more ‘bankable’ star than ranvir. But when you think which young star can do it at least convincingly if not as well as ranvir, one runs short of options.
to be fair , many of the young leads now do so few films, that we cant really guage their range.
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sputnik
June 29, 2009
The movie is just a bad masala movie. Here is a nice review.
http://tanqeed.com/movies/ny.cfm
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Vineet
June 29, 2009
Just knew it. The producers agreed to make a movie based on a stupid idea and mid-way one of them said “Sh*t, this ones going to make us bankrupt!” Wise guy:”Shut up! One half has already been made. Lets finish up the other half. The audience is stupid as ever. We can pull this one too”
But, Mr. wise guy didn’t know is that the aam janta has grown up now. Mindless masala movies aren’t gonna be hits anymore.
Hope they learn a lesson.
Rating: 1/5
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Tejas
June 29, 2009
This is a prime example of actors setting in too comfortably into characters too similar to their only available acting powers – dumbfuckedness. I remember you talking about this thing about Abhay Deol. Watching Neil Nitin Mukesh, John Ab-Raham, and Catastrophe-rina Kaif in roles that need to act as confused souls like this is the best use of their acting talents – whatever of that exist. I support you, Mr Raja Sen.
PS: by the way, what’s with using your father, and grandfather’s name!!? Own identity, anyone?
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brangan
June 29, 2009
For those interested (and in Chennai), Svanubhava is back. See here for more details. Here’s something I wrote about it from last year.
In further non-Season concert news, the Yagnaraman memorial music festival is underway at Krishna Gana Sabha. There was a spectacular “jugalbandi” (their term, not mine) by Vijay Siva and TM Krishna yesterday (Sunday), and on Tuesday, there’s one by Anil Srinivasan (piano) and Ravikiran (chitraveena). It’s free and the canteen’s nice, in case that’s an added incentive 🙂
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brangan
June 29, 2009
Arif Attar: Nope. Not on Twitter.
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fillum
June 30, 2009
Stars vs actors – one side, ppl argu like here – ranvir vs john etc. othr extrm – this rvwr.
If this movie was exactly same with a more favourble str cst, forget konkona or ranvir evem abhishek and preity with exactly same expressions – then this site will bepositive review. And also if abbas tyrewala or kashyap are writers, then that backstory on the accent of kaif and abraham will be noticed and told as wonderful thinking dirction. Also he will notice first time abraham says this is a mistake, somebody listen, I’m american. After beating again again, he drops I’m american. If abhishk bchn and abs tyrwala are in this movie then this is noticed by this site and told as great thinking and acting. But only abraham and chta director so no such thoughts enter our rvwr
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brangan
July 1, 2009
Got this via email…
have you disabled comments on your website these days? my new york review..you could not have been more off the mark..
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brangan
July 1, 2009
And this…
Thank you, thank you for a review that was founded on integrity. Generally, New York has been receiving rave reviews and the write-ups often dont justify their stance.Thats what happens I guess when you mix big stars with guantenamo…your review captured New York for what it was..a caramel popcorn flick,prison scene thrown in for good measure
And why do we still have american campus scenes depicted as some neon lala land-and moreover overgrown actors trying to play cutsey.My Newyork has a lot of bite,is edgy and is not blue skys and pink tees!(bollywood depicts newyork as some hotel Calafornia…boy will they be in for a surprise on arrival!)
and yes the cobblestones deserve the oscar!
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Ramesh
July 1, 2009
Mr Rangan,
Thanks for putting up the emailwith a link to my blog.
I find it facetious to say the least that the following criticism is being used to trash the authenticity of the film:
1. it was **called* * new york but was **shot** in philadelphia.
2. the actors were too pretty to be working in an **art** film with a serious suject
3. New York or philly or wherever is not as attractive as depicted in the film.
4. there are no documented cases of people pissing on any muslim’s head inside of the US all this happenned outside the US.
Youve got to be kidding one! have there NEVER been movies, bollywood or art that were shot in a location different than they were purputed to be? so is Guru any less authentic because the period sequences in it were shot in pondicherri? or does yuva’s message get diluted because the calcutta sequences were shot in ramoji rao studios?
New your/philly..wherever is , too so attractive. I have pictures.
there are documented cases of prisoner abuse inside the US , of people of muslim /indian origin after the September 11 incidents.
Please do not be so petty (you all) in tearing down a decent film. We understand that being friends with yash raj/eros is less important than being friends with the all powerful US embassy , Chennai, which controls visas/green cards / futures/ access to visiting American celebrities, yatcetra yatcetra. but excersice better judgement.
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Ramesh
July 1, 2009
The last comment was directed at a certain tendency to knee jerk pro americanism (hollywoodism?) some people tend to have because of which any criticism of america(specially from the perspective of muslims from the west/ central asian region) is treated with some suspicion, from othervice reasonable people…
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Shankar
July 1, 2009
Digression..
http://ia.rediff.com/movies/slide-show/2009/jul/01/slide-show-1-akshaye-on-shortkut.htm
Sounds suspiciously like “Udayanaanu Thaaram”!! 🙂
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Srikanth
July 2, 2009
@Arif Attar
I thought it was also common knowledge that Pritam has clarified that Hai Junoon is not a rip off.For those who came in late-
http://itwofs.com/
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koko
July 2, 2009
Can you write about satyajit ray movies like charulata, pather panchali etc in part of the picture sections?
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brangan
July 2, 2009
koko: The brief is “foreign films” — as in, non-Indian, non-Hollywood cinema.
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Varun
July 2, 2009
Baradwaj,
Yet again, the quality of comments and the flow of discussion on your post makes for a rare case of sobriety on internet forums. Not many online avenues will see a review of ‘New York’ ballooning into a court-case against ‘actors’ of our generation…
But things are not all gloomy I believe…makers like Anurag kashyap, Vishal Bharadwaj, (digression: I know people who call you Rangan Bharadwaj) and to some extent Rakesh Mehra, Shaad Ali, and Imtiaz Ali understand the true value of casting correctly. (I didn’t mention Dibakar, Sudhir Mishra and Navdeep Singh yet as they will be considered either non-mainstream or too fresh to be acknowledged).
I am reminded of an anecdote somebody related when Hrishi da died. On the sets of Anand, Hrishi da would always be busy playing chess with his writers, even in the middle of a shot. One day, after giving an emotionally charged take apparently applauded by all the crew, rajesh khanna looked in hrishi da’s direction for approval and hrishi da applauded too, barely looking up from his game of chess. Khanna lost it and screamed – ‘But you don’t even know what I just did!’ and Hrishi da said – ‘I do. I cast you.’
P.S. – Do you know your this post is kind of sponsored by ‘Kambakht Ishq’.
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anamika
July 2, 2009
Hello B,
Thanks for the putting me on-site!
and keep up the good work.
nothing like a good filter kaapi and ore kadal to put my new york days behind!!
cheers:
a
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Arif Attar
July 2, 2009
@Srikanth
Who cares what Pritam says. It is clear the song is copied, even if Karthik seems to be a bit tolerant on this particular occasion.
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Ramesh
July 3, 2009
dear anamika,
Call me
(go to facebook, search for ramesh ram, add friend.
Ramesh
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bk
July 3, 2009
ramesh: Your hosannas of praise about Bollywood and how it has arrived with a bang through “New York” is laughable, if not downright absurd. Since you have launched into an extended diatribe about “liberal western democracies”, “gated communities that practice conspiracies of silence”, yada, yada, yada through your blog-link advertised here, I suggest that you see Farenheit 9/11, which was made by someone who rarely ever suffers in silence (& yet lives in a gated community in the west). BTW, you may want to write your friends at the YashRaj banner to step it up a notch and make a film “New Delhi” just so the world does not forget the mind-numbing massacre of innocents in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi’s assassination (no gated communities here, just hooligans
running roughshod over civil liberties). Oh, before you worry about the white picket fences in U.S stained with the blood of innocents (why worry, hasn’t the YashRaj banner started looking after the “Global Indian”) you may want to clear the poison ivy that has infested your mind.
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Ramesh
July 3, 2009
bk,
thanks for laughing at my advertizement above.
what i thought i did, was to review a film i liked . I do not have friends at yash raj, although if anyone from YRF or eros is reading this, Im open to all reasonable offers to push your films.
All your above bitchiness needs to be contextualized. My review is not an idealogical call to arms one way or another. it is the common sense observation of somone that shared the experiences of the guy that made the film, in post sep 11 USA.
Take it. or leave it.
Thanks for visiting my blog and reading my review, but (and believe me here) I don’t need the kind of advertizing I get from taking on BR(or expressing a difference of opinion with him). I get one or two hits on my own and the addition from BR’s readership, though welcome is not a dint on my averages.
I mostly sent him the email because I wanted to tell him how wrong I thought he was in his review(but then this is not the first time Ive communicated to him about this feeling of mine.)
Ramesh
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Ramesh
July 3, 2009
And , really, if you think I went soft on YRF or anyone else, I recommend you give me a couple of more hits and read the damn thing again…
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nik
July 3, 2009
oh my god…i cant fathom a film course where one has to read about new york…man there must be a drought coming on…
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bk
July 4, 2009
Ramesh: Little things such as “context”, “perspective” and “balance” are missing in your scathing indictment of American society. I have no issue with you liking the *film*, but I find your societal characterizations borderline rabble-rousing. 9/11 was a seminal moment in the history of the US and if you lived here that day and saw and heard what unfolded, you will have better appreciation for the response (official & otherwise) that followed. While, unofficially, it did unleash rabid xenophobia in its immediate aftermath, as time wore on, a more sober and practical understanding/approach did evolve.
As for the Patriot Act, it enabled the US agencies to quickly round up people living here illegally or immigrants committing crimes and deport them back to their homeland. It also gave US law enforcement broad powers for warrant-less record searches, warrant-less wiretaps, electronic surveillance and the like. In the course of these enhanced policing efforts, there were stray incidents of abuses reported. There was no institutionalized thuggery by the state against any community or religion (rotten apples yes, stinking apple trees no!). While there are provisions of the Patriot Act that appear radical (with potential to unleash the proverbial authority-of-state genie from the bottle), in its implementation *thus far*, it has been anything but. Let us not conflate what is happening with foreign terrorists at Guantanamo Bay (or in the CIA rendition programs) with the life of ordinary Muslim-Americans or Indian-Americans post 9/11.
To illustrate my point that state overreach, in most cases, was race-neutral and religion-neutral, I present two such incidents that happened during airport screenings here. John Dingell (no Muslim he) is the longest serving representative in Congress and he was asked to drop his pants at the D.C airport because his artificial hip set off a metal detector. Senator Ted Kennedy (no Muslim he either) was not allowed to board flights without supervisory approval on a few occasions because he found his name on the no-fly list. Post 9/11, these inconveniences (what some may consider indignities) are suffered by everyday Americans regardless of race or religion or even age (Dingell was 75 then). Does that reek of overreach if you are innocent? Perhaps! Would I rather subject myself to few hours of searches and interrogations rather than fly a plane which brainwashed, nihilistic nuts turn into a missile? Absolutely! Its a small price to pay to arrive safely at the other end of the journey rather than be consumed midway in a cosmic conflagration.
As the US continues to strike a balance between effective policing measures and protection of civil liberties, a perfect middle ground has not been found. Just because we have not found that perfect middle ground, do we forsake what we have instituted that has kept us safe
post 9/11? To paraphrase the current U.S President on a different issue, do we let our desire for perfection in our systems act against the need for a system that is absolutely necessary?
Your blog leaves the impression that there were/are large scale efforts to invade or defile the private spaces of Indians/Muslims living in the U.S and that American society does not have the cojones or the conscience to speak out against it. If that were indeed true, you would have seen a mass exodus of these communities post 9/11 or a million lawsuits filed by individuals (or the ACLU) against these govt. agencies that allegedly behave like jackbooted thugs. Enough said! I find little that is edifying in prolonging this conversation with you here, so feel free to have the last word.
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Ramesh
July 4, 2009
bk,
Thank you for letting me have the last word.
and that is this:
ITS A FUCKING MOVIE REVIEW!
Thank you.
While your long US Embassy in Chennai style defense may be acceptable (or not) in a political forum discussing the vile or virtuous aspects of the patriot act, Neither my blog nor this one purputes to do this.
This is the review of a film about **a** charecter whose rights were violated and personal space transgressed upon , like thousands of Indian Americans of muslim origin’s were during those troubled times. (these are documented facts. the Political commentary attached to those facts are a different cup of filter Kapi(as my friend anamika would say) and neither I nor B rangan seem to be discussing them,
My blog does not mislead on this point. America DID give itself the power to act in violation of its own laws, and When I pointthis out I’m not indulging in hateful rhetoric. merely stating the facts.
I don’t have to take up,through my blog, the job of attracting immigrants to your land, that is your job as consular officer of the US embassy in chennai. (or his rep) .
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Ramesh
July 4, 2009
So when I say “Gated community” about the post sep 11 America, I AM talking about the experience of people who ran headlong into the FBI (or the Scotland yard) acting like they were bouncers in a nightclub evicting(and in some cases abusing) undesirables in it, on a crowded saturday night.
This impression given by the film was an accurate charecterization of those times, in my considered opinion.
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bk
July 4, 2009
ramesh: Ok, I had to break my word, so sue me. If you are going to resort to the Don’t-confuse-me-with-facts-I-am-just-a-movie-reviewer line of defense, then spare us your itch to write drivel about society you know little about !
> whose rights were violated and personal space transgressed upon like
> thousands of Indian Americans of muslim origin’s were during those
> troubled times.
There you go again. You are entitled to your *opinions*, but not entitled to the facts. Stick to movie reviews and stay away from muddling with facts or social commentaries about societies you know little about. As for your movie reviews, having called New York the “Godfather” of terrorism movies doesn’t give you much hope or credibility either. But, for that act of sheer courage and genius alone, you deserve a Padmashri (maybe the yashraj banner can get you one)
> America DID give itself the power to act in violation of its own laws,
This is not your JJ AMMA’s country to give “itself” power, it is a country of laws (individual diktat won’t cut it here).
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Ramesh
July 4, 2009
oh i did stick to reviewing films! and i dont need to defend myself or my opinionse said nothing substantive about my views, except to diminish them.
For instance i don’t kmow why my saying new york is like godfather would offend you to the core of your being except that it seems to.
If you want a prolonged debate, please do it on my blog. i have hijacked rangan’s for long enough.
I think you are full of shit but i had rather nottell you why in derail where im a guest on someone else’s blog.
ramesh
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Ramesh
July 4, 2009
you haven’t called me any of my facts either, only repeated platitudes like’In america we are nation of laws not like your amma’s tamilnadu” which Awesome example of clearthinking sophistry presumably ought to make me cringe, quake in my boots AND accept your winning arguments.
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bk
July 4, 2009
Thank Heavens for small mercies. Now, crawl back into your blog hole and spare us and readers on this site your sanctimonious blather. When you make an accusation, the burden of proof is on you to provide the documented list of “thousands of Muslim Americans of Indian origin” that were brutalized and pissed on (phew, it almost sounds like a pogrom). What other facts did you have? Oh yeah, something about FBI agents walking into a bar like bouncers (thats what happens when you watch too many crappy bollywood flicks). Get it into your thick head that the Patriot Act from which most of the enforcement powers were derived, was passed overwhelmingly by the U.S Congress (which does represent the people here), not once, but twice (unlike the autocratic ways of your JJ AMMA).
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Ramesh
July 4, 2009
Troll.
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Ramesh
July 5, 2009
perhaps BR’s blog deserves more than a single word rebuttal.
It was a progrom. the FBI did “round up” muslim indian americans by name, by religion ,by the fact that they took pictures, by the fact that they were together, wearing beards and smiling in bus stations, in trains, in other public places , after sep 11th. the details are fairly well documented. talking about this does not make me a “lowlife crawling into a hole” because I refused to engage you on somone else’s blog. it makes me someone with the decency not to hijack the agenda on film blogs for my monomaniacal profession of geopolitical disinformation.
The links you requested for “proof” (this is evidence, you feel like talking, come over to my blog. if not…I’ll let BR worry about you. you’re not my problem)
Click to access materialwitnessreport.pdf
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bk
July 5, 2009
Nice try ! After all his google research, this shmuck pulls out a ACLU document that has a reference to 2 Muslims from India (Ayub Ali Khan and Mohammed Azmath) who were arrested on charges of credit card fraud and deported back to Hyderabad, a well documented case. Neither of them are Americans. I am still waiting for the list of “thousands of Muslim Americans of Indian origin” that were brutalized and pissed on. Illegals, visitors and people on immigrant visas aren’t Americans (that would make the 9/11 terrorists Americans), ok? If this document is the flimsy ground on which you have built your reservoir of hatred against the US, you not only need to have your head examined, but you ought to stay as far away from a computer so that you don’t make outlandish remarks and sneak them into a Bollywood movie review under the pretext of being a champion (& a faux champion who probably doesn’t care about police brutality at his neighborhood police station) of the voiceless immigrant souls.
One name that struck me in this document is that of Jose Padilla (an American), who has been accused of a dirty bomb plot and is cooling his heels in a maximum security prison here. If this shmuck had his way, he would have him released (maybe you ought to take him to your AMMAland and treat him with kid gloves). If you still want to plod on, go back and do your google search and produce the facts. Au contraire, I suggest that you do tapas for a year (no yashraj movies for you) for desecrating this blogsite and dragging me along for a muckfest.
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Ramesh
July 5, 2009
the first rule of internet forums. never feed a troll.
goodbye bk
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brangan
July 5, 2009
Ramesh and bk: Guys, hate to be a party pooper, but I think this discussion has gone on enough, and as Ramesh has very kindly offered the use of his blog space, maybe you should take it there?
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Arif Attar
July 5, 2009
Kabir Khan in the Sunday Mumbai Mirror: “One should never convert the already-converted…….The combustible subject of prejudice against Muslims in the wake of 9/11 and how it can stoke jihad has no power for an arty audience; it already knows the right polemic. People in Gujarat need to see New York – that there have been standing ovations in some theatres there is a great starting point. Cinema about such topics needs a mass audience. These are concerns that need large pools of converts, not art-house audiences.”
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Ami
July 11, 2009
what a loer, this kabir khan. maybe he should have made a movie on muslims in gujarat, at least there would have been (hopefully) more context. new york was easily the worst movie i have seen in the longest time. moral of the story? all terrorists have been tortured and therefore have become terrorists. They are otherwise very normal people. Shame shame.
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Arif Attar
July 11, 2009
Very disappointed with your review BR. I respect you too much to go on a detailed criticism of your work, but I will say this:
There are at least 2 occasions where we are given a glimpse of Sam’s arrogance. One is the chess scene where he asks the East Asian-looking student to take back 3 moves and play again. If that is not arrogance, what is? And the second comes towards the end when he is showing off his explosive device to his group of terrorists.
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brangan
July 11, 2009
Arif Attar: If you feel like it, you *should* offer criticism. You can “respect” someone and still disagree with them.
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brangan
July 11, 2009
Arif Attar: If you feel like it, you *should* offer criticism. You can “respect” someone and still disagree with them.
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prose
August 4, 2009
I wonder when Kabir Khan will make a movie on Godhra riots though. I bet any day far more Muslims are harassed and incarcerated any day in India than in the US. Why are we pointing fingers at domestic security arrangements in the US while till now no mainstream Bollywood filmmaker has portrayed the Godhra violence? There were no major reprisals against the Muslims after 9/11 and it looks like self-indulgence if they complain about their “rights” when everyone had to go through the same thing.
Patriot Act was voted with large majorities in House and Senate and it is ridiculous to claim it is not “legal” and “violates their own laws.” How can a law violate itself?
Some are commending Kabir Khan for putting “a human face” on Taliban. Hope he will do the same courtesy regarding RSS and Lashkar-e-Toeba.
Bollywood will do better if it remembers its own famous dialogue: jo sheeshe ke gharon me rehte hain woh doosron par pathar pheka nahin karte.
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Ramesh
August 16, 2009
Sigh! the Chennai US embassy has a new hire.
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