Spoilers ahead…
Massu Engira Masilamani comes with the tagline ‘A Venkat Prabhu Sixer.’ If this is a reference to Massu being the director’s sixth film, then fine. But if it’s a clearing-the-boundary cry, then sorry, there are a hundred fielders out there, palms cupped, looking at the sky. The only sixer in Venkat Prabhu’s career is his first film, the superb Chennai 600028. It was formally structured and scripted, and so moving and funny that it appeared a new voice had emerged. But then we got Saroja and Goa, not bad films as such, but so loose and scattershot that you wondered why someone who made Chennai 600028 would bother with this kind of B-level material. These days, though, I ask myself: “How did he make Chennai 600028 in the first place?”
But I have to give Venkat Prabhu this much: he is a great ideas man. The idea behind the supernaturally themed Massu is terrific, even it feels like a mashup of many spirit-driven films. (Ghost, The Sixth Sense, even Pisaasu – they all take turns possessing this screenplay.) And Venkat Prabhu keeps coming up with googlies. I loved the twist involving Jet (Premgi Amaren). But I loved it as an idea. This idea needs work. It needs to be shepherded from the inside of his head to the screen. But that’s the thing with Venkat Prabhu’s films these days. They’re all ideas and no follow-through. He’s like a batsman who knows exactly what kind of shot he should be playing, but remains happy with that knowledge. Who cares if he actually plays that shot?
Why are Tamil directors so content with concept-level filmmaking? It’s as if the mere idea were enough. Very few seek to lift that idea off the page, shape it with a great technical team and create a work of vision. Yes, I said vision. Massu could have been a visionary “mass” movie.. You have to watch the scene that references Engeyum Eppodhum. It’s a madly inventive bit, and it made me imagine what it would be like if characters from a particular film kept drifting into other films, like ghosts. The hero-introduction song also made me sit up. I didn’t care for the music (Yuvan Shankar Raja), but the staging is reminiscent of Raakkamma in Thalapathy, with the rowdy hero setting eyes on the heroine in a religious setting. But the heroine, Malini (Nayanthara), is essentially the twelfth man. There’s a line in the film that I kept wanting to use: “Edhukku ivvalavu periya scene potte?”
The initial portions are quite ghastly. The editing is frantic. It’s as if the editor guessed that we’d grow impatient with the extremely generic nature of the goings-on and knew that we’d end up fast-forwarding these scenes on the DVD anyway, so he decided to save us the trouble with an editing pattern that resembles fast-forwarding. Scenes whiz by. If you’d asked me, early on, what was happening, I’d have said… Mass (Suriya, playing, well, Suriya) is a conman. He loves Malini. There are some vague bad men. There’s an attempt at a joke about the composer SA Rajkumar. There’s another attempt at a joke when an overweight woman is referred to as Kung Fu Panda. A commissioner is killed by someone… But who and why? All that will have to wait. Right now, the film is just warming up.
But when the supernatural element kicks in, there’s finally something to hold on to. These scenes are still badly staged (someone actually does a thumbs-up to indicate they’re okay with a suggestion), and the tone is all over the place – but at least there’s a sense of going somewhere. Of course, it helps if you stop thinking about things like writing and execution. When watching an innings from Scotland, you have to be happy with the occasional single.
It’s only in the last hour or so that Massu begins to score. Venkat Prabhu may like to think he’s a prankster, but his film works best when he hunkers down to deliver hardcore drama, with a paranormal twist on Aboorva Sagotharargal. (Suriya plays a second role as well.) It’s a pity that the screenplay has spent so much time fooling around instead of imbuing the characters with depth and dimension, because this stretch could have really been something had we been emotionally involved with their plight. But maybe there are too many characters to begin caring about. The cast includes Karunas, Rajendran, Sriman, Riyaz Khan, Samuthirakani and Parthiban, all of them underutilised. And Brahmanandam plays a small role so Telugu viewers can find comfort in a familiar face.
Like a benevolent Santa, the overlong Massu tries to have something for every segment of the audience. Kids are going to love the scene where Mass smiles at a schoolchild after signing a report card filled with zeroes. International audiences will love the bit where someone, after listening to the Sri Lankan lilt in the second Suriya’s Tamil, asks, “Ceylon-aa?” and Suriya shakes his head and says, “Thamizhan.” The weak-bladdered will heartily embrace the unimaginative and drawn-out action sequences. (The songs, too, in the theatre I was in.) As for fun-loving family audiences, what do I pick? The scenes of drinking at a TASMAC bar? The beeped-out F-word? The stretch where a mother and her little girl are burnt alive? The film’s U-certificate may be its spookiest accomplishment.
An edited version of this piece can be found here. Copyright ©2015 The Hindu. This article may not be reproduced in its entirety without permission. A link to this URL, instead, would be appreciated.
MANK
May 29, 2015
Why are Tamil directors so content with concept-level filmmaking? It’s as if the mere idea is enough
Brangan, I think you can blame Shankar for this. He thinks up all these weird concepts-a guy with multiple personality syndrome, a beautiful guy who becomes ugly etc..- and has been making tons of money no matter how bad the execution by garnishing with a lot of gloss. Shankar has been setting the bar for the big budget mainstream films and others have been or perhaps forced to follow suit
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MANK
May 29, 2015
BTW I loved the review. The way you took venkat prabhus cricketing metaphor and ran with it – nayantara the twelft man lol – and spiced it up with all the ghostly terms befitting the subject of the film. Superb!
But what is this surya’s double role fetish. he seems to be playing them in every film, one worse than the next
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Srinivas R
May 29, 2015
The U certificate for these star films in Tamil is so odd. If you ever needed proof that censor cetificates are arbitary, you can pick any big star movie and point out how totally unsuitable they are for U certificate (Nanbenda comes to mind)
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Vikram
May 29, 2015
I read this movie’s review on rediff. It looks like that the director has lifted largely from an underrated yet droll comedy Ghost Town starring Ricky Gervais. Do watch it if you get a chance.
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sabharinath
May 29, 2015
No review on demonte colony yet, but a review of ‘masss’ on the very 1st day!!!!! And to think, I thought u weren’t a big fan of hero centric masala movies. Well….That confirms the fact…. ‘Love it or hate it….But one can’t ignore our heroes and their mass movies…. Intellectuals watch it to comment or troll its filmmaking and compare them with world cinema, feminists watch them to take note on the depiction of women, and post a column condemning them…. For the common people, its a short vacation or picnic….. Revolutionary movies will come & go, but these go on forever…. No wonder though….. As for an industry nearing a century, the leading man is still, the singlemost driving force for the majority (or everyone) to visit the theatres…. Presence of established heroine or director or other popular technicians are just value additions…. Even without them, the former is a force enough…..
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brangan
May 29, 2015
sabharinath: So not true.
(1) All my reviews — for big films or small — appear on the first day.
(2) Maybe you should see the following links and catch up on some of my non-“hero centric masala movie” reviews:
JK Enum Nanbanin Vaazhkai
Thilagar
Chennai Ungalai Anbudan Varaverkiradhu
CSK – Charles Shafiq Karthiga
India Pakistan
Kallappadam
Bench Talkies
(3) I try to review as many films as I can, but it’s inevitable some get left behind. Still, I end up covering about 75% of the releases. 100% is inhuman, IMO.
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bart
May 29, 2015
Saw the movie and the movie completely deserves your review 🙂 The first one-third of the movie made me think I was an asss (with extra “s”). The accident scene fills the gasss to start the star-vehicle.. Then it picks up and goes at a decent speed to reach somewhere.
a) Parthiban seems to have put on too much of massssss… or was it bad camera angles? Quite a few of his one-liners clicked including the one about him (“avarum oru herongaradhaye marandhuttaru”)
b) The meta references (“adhellam part 2 la vachikalam”, To Sreeman: “Aanalum romba over-acting panra nee”) and other in-film jokes (“malini, nee romba azhaga irukka…”, “Manicka Vinayagam, che Mr. Vinayak Mahadev”, Engeyum eppodhum etc.) worked well
c) The movie could’ve lived with just Poochandi (a better-made) and Piravi songs. Rest were pissssss…
VP always gives portions of movies that can be enjoyed but not the movie as a whole except his debut at helm.
He perhaps idea-bulbs an one-liner, fixes some twisty ideas, then jumps to shoot, sketches a rough screenplay and then starts filling in areas as it goes. The only way out is to write and then rewrite before he binds it.
Another thing is that he makes a movie with whomsoever that gives him some dates. Make-shift chief ministers can be a O. Paneer Selvam too!
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sabharinath
May 29, 2015
Yeah i know sir…. But even in that 75%, I never saw u omit different attempts…. Thats y, the omission of de monte colony, so surprised me that I was specific about it….
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nava
May 30, 2015
Is it just me or he looks like a lesbo chick in the poster above?
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Aravindan
May 30, 2015
She is Maniniங்க. கதாநாயகி கதாபாத்திரத்துக்காக யோசிச்ச ஒரே ஒரு விஷயம்..
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Krish
May 30, 2015
BR, Whats your view of Suriya the actor. Not in this movie but in general. IMO he was the brightest talent in Indian cinema during the Varanam Aayiram and rakhta Charithra times few years ago!!.
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Sandeep M Thomas
May 30, 2015
“As for fun-loving family audiences, what do I pick? The scenes of drinking at a TASMAC bar? The beeped-out F-word? The stretch where a mother and her little girl are burnt alive? The film’s U-certificate may be its spookiest accomplishment.”
I agree with your review, but whats wrong if characters use F word… or a scene in TASMAC!!!..don’t be a hypocrite !!! u mean to say in hollywood movies or world cinema that you so in love with doesn’t have any sex scene???? grow up!!!!
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Anantha Krishnan
May 30, 2015
suriya playing suriya-what do you mean by that? well his mannerisms in mass may be similar to that of ayan or anjaan but still there is singam, varanam ayiram, ghajini,kakka kakka and many more (the opinions about this films may be subjective but there is a lot of difference between roles in each one)… you make him sound like an imran khan or something who sticks on to comfort zone always
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yaathavanr
May 30, 2015
SPOILERS
I think you’re too harsh with the movie. This is probably VP’s most creative attempt since pre-Goa. So many subtle nuances in the film which cannot just be achieved if it was concept-level filmmaking. For example, the character played by Sanjay who’s final wish is to see his lover (the elderly woman in present times). He is seen questioning who Katrina Kaif is during a song on the TV. This is a nice hint to show how he died before Katrina Kaif was probably even born.
The end reveal too of Shakthi following Masss as a kid and as he grows up was haunting in an emotional way. It just felt satisfying. Revenge movies like ‘I’ which essentially were the same core plot did not have that same gratification.
Another scene that I thoroughly enjoyed was when Surya has an emotional outburst at the restaurant against the mother who abandoned her blind child but then comes to learn that Surya is the reason for her death. This was a powerful piece of drama and I was quite surprised that someone like VP was able to create such a character dynamic so successfully. I kind of wish that VP continued this trend whereby which Surya learns that he was responsible for the deathe of all the ghosts he’s helping.
The foreshadowing such as telling Jet to wear his seat belt etc. There are so many moments like this which I just found to be very creative, especially when it’s from someone like VP who gave rather meaningless entertainers such as Biriyani, Mankatha and Goa. The best bit is thay these moments are so subtle and only easy to identify on a second watch. These moments of foreshadowing and whatnot may not be apparent on first watch because we do not come to learn of their significance until later where we realised Surya has so and so powers.
Even the more in-your-face references such as the Engeyum Epothum cameo were so clever. It genuinely made the audience feel chuffed for identifying and made them appreciate VP more for seamlessly integrating it into this plot. I kinda wish that the corrupt police officer’s fate was also in Ajith’s hands in Malaysia (Mankatha end scene) as opposed to in Riyaz Khan’s hands. To be fair, Riyaz Khan wasn’t needed at all given that Surya had the power to learn people’s past through tough.
Yes, I do agree that I found myself squirming in my seat in boredom for the first 40 mins or so. Yes, the story doesn’t really take off till Shakthi enters the picture. But as a whole, I found the film to be very satisfying. In fact, even the filler material in the initial meaningless 40 minutes made more sense in the greater scheme of things and for that, I appreciate Venkat Prabhu’s efforts.
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subramanian
May 30, 2015
Surya and Nayanthara combination never really works. Their previous one Adhavan didn’t do Quite well. Onscreen they aren’t pairing well. you missed Mentioning Mankattha here. it was next Finest Movie after Chennai 28 from Venkatprabhu. Goa and Saroja are very average stuff where skin show outdid everything.
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VenkateswaranGanesan (@_Drunkenmunk)
May 30, 2015
The film basically worked for me when it did not take itself seriously. Which was basically 4-5 scenes. For a masala comedy around ghosts, what a mess.
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drhari
May 30, 2015
For me, the first three-fourths of the film worked – barring the very generic beginning. It was good b-grade movie-type fun. But that Surya flashback, the 80’s style villains-getting-together-and-killing-family episode, the son surya’s revenge in the climax with the mood-spoiling comic interludes between the fight, all that came together to make it ultimately a disappointing experience.
Where did the Chennai-28 Venkat prabhu go? He seems to have become so smug and content with what he’s doing and the success he’s experiencing through putting together four or five things from here and there, that I don’t see any honest work of art coming from him anytime soon. We too have to become accustomed to these B-grade stuffs he churns out. Hope youngsters in Tamil cinema learn how to keep the quest alive from people like KB, Mani ratnam and so on.
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Madhu
May 30, 2015
Of all the movies to get released in my town, this did. So, we did go (it’s been ages since we saw a Tamil movie in our town, usually we travel a bit for that) and then this…sigh!
If someone is actually worrying about spoilers on this movie, please don’t read further…
I could have really been happy with Sakthi having some dracula-ish type twist or at the very least the money actually belonging to him, instead of the usual, silly revenge story that we got! I understood your Pisasu reference only a couple of seconds after the scene unfolded…it was one of the very few pieces that impressed me. That Mass loses his ability to see the ghosts is a good plot point, why wasn’t anything good done with it! Argh, it was like ordering for a biriyani, only to get a dish where everything has been thrown in raw and presented in beautiful silverware.
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avan
May 30, 2015
yaathavanr,
I decided to watch the movie yesterday after reading Baradwaj’s review. In addition to the poor intro scene, I was negatively influenced by his review, so I stopped watching within 10 minutes. Next day, I was extremely bored and continued watching.Throughout the first few minutes I felt why Surya in the place of Lawrence! On the contrary, as the movie progressed, it turned out be an enjoyable experience. I’m glad you mentioned the similar observations that I had.
Keeping the fun-loving family audience in mind, I feel this movie won’t fail to entertain!
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Srinivas R
May 30, 2015
@Sandeep M Thomas – The problem is not with f word or TASMAC scenes, the problem is this is supposed to be a “family” entertainer with a “U” certificate, the makers must have the honesty to at least get an “A” certificate. As a new dad , i am petrified of these big star Tamil movies. On one hand they are marketed as family entertainment but are filled with scenes of violence and misogyny. I think I am not taking my son to any tamil movies till he is at least 15 ( he is going to hate me, but..). Imagine sitting in a movie hall with a 5 year old inquisitive kid and having to explain what “gilma” or the F word means( I haven’t gone through that yet, luckily).
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Anon
May 31, 2015
Sandeep M Thomas:
u mean to say in hollywood movies or world cinema that you so in love with doesn’t have any sex scene????
They have all that as well as an A (or R) certificate.
A child can watch almost all ‘U” (or G) rated Hollywood movies.
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Ravi
May 31, 2015
@Srinivas R
I think that is an overreaction on your behalf regarding TASMAC scenes. Any drunk actions or just the setting of a TASMAC will most likely go over the heads of a very young viewer. But in the case of a child perhaps aged 7 and above, they are more likely to understand the connotations of a TASMAC scene. They will be familiar with the concept of drinking and how it alters behavior. School education will also supplement their awareness of the issue so such scenes, at least in my opinion, will not do any significant harm to young viewers. Kids are so quick to learn these days – you cannot bar a huge sector of the audience from not watching a film due to an ‘A’ rating, just because there is a TASMAC scene.
In the case of the ‘F’ word, I can empathize with you more. It is awkward to have to explain such language but once again, I do believe that most of this stuff goes over the heads of very young viewers and the inquisitive few who do remain will most likely be accustomed with it’s “rude/swear word” connotations based off of school experiences. It is naive to not think that school-age children will not know that such words exist.
I personally found Masss to be a clean entertainer for the most part, deserving its ‘U’ rating. But I do agree, I can see why the single bleeped-out ‘F’ word could cause discomfort among families. The TASMAC scene on the other hand was fully appropriate in the context and was not glorified in any sense, hence making it suitable for family audiences.
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Santosh Balakrishnan
May 31, 2015
In my location, Pisasu (pure class) got released in 1 mediocre cinema (had to wait for DVD release to watch it) but Crasss (sorry masss) released in 10 cinemas (2 big chains).. S(ad)tate of tamil cinema!!!
P.S. Despite reading your review ended up watching the movie… arggg!! and paid the price.. 🙂 2nd time this year.. “I” experience was even worse..
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Priyangu
May 31, 2015
@sabharinath, if you have been following BR reviews for the past few recent years, you would notice the amount of pain he takes to bring out the best in so many of the non-mass-hero movies, that are coming out these days. It does a whale of good to the upcoming young directors. For example, you can see BR’s review mentioned in “Burma” movie’s wiki page. And, it is so important that, in the current scenario, the mass-hero movies get reviewed in BR-style because it’s high time that some responsible not-sold-out critic highlights the bad-ugly parts of these mass-hero movies. What a huge waste of money and resources on these mass-movies, when the small movie makers with good content have to be content with small budgets and not-so-big returns. Just image Rajnikanth in Bobby Sinha’s role and Kamal in Siddharth’s role in Jigarthanda, if only Karthik Subbaraj had that kind of money to spend; definitely I don’t mean to offend Bobby and Siddharth. I’m just one of those who want to see mass-heroes in movies with good content. Like Amitabh in Piku.
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udhaysankar
May 31, 2015
Priyagu: Rajnikanth as sethu and Kamal as karthik? I never imagined the movie that way. You have literally made me lick my lips. I’m thinking of the mouthwatering result had that happened that way. But then,we all have our own fantasies…
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udhaysankar
May 31, 2015
If I’m not wrong my previous comment is ought to be the 50000th … 😀 … though I don’t know the exact figures, Idhula ennavo oru perumai…
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Srinivas R
June 1, 2015
@Ravi – I see where you are coming from , but my comment was in general about big star (and not so big star) tamil movies, not specific to MASS. I am not demanding a blanket ban on TASMAC scenes, all I am saying is watching the “hero” get drunk and wail about his ex-lover (while dancing with a midriff revealing item girl) does not make any sense (for a family audience or otherwise) and that’s what we see in most TASMAC scenes. My bigger issue is with the violence and the absolute disregard for female characters – (prostitute jokes,” figuru” , “item” references, stalking as a standard way of wooing etc.). My real point is that a U certificate has become pointless. I would prefer more information. I already commented on this in some other post. E.g. N- Nudity , P- Profane language etc. so that I can see what to expect. A movie like Django unchained willl come with NPV to indicate that there is nudity, profanity and violence. A movie like MASS should probably come at least with a PV.
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Prasad
June 1, 2015
@ Ravi
” But in the case of a child perhaps aged 7 and above, they are more likely to understand the connotations of a TASMAC scene.”
Not sure why we need to allow kids to go through this so early. The larger point is why these hero centric Directors feel “TASMAC” is a Mandatory scene which needs to be there. Why at all it is part of Tamil cinema DNA. Probably it givens them a sense of completeness what is what is to be objected.
Am not against showing Drinking or anything point is how it is handled in the movie. Just take the example of”Tanu Weds Manu returns ” …Kangana is drinking probably 7-8 scenes in the movie but there is a difference how it is handled. That is what Directors like VP lack which am sure will never get it.
@ BR
How about a seminar for our Tamil Directors on ” Yes Indeed! A movie can be made without a TASMAC scene. It’s not that difficult like going to Mars”
We can start with recent case in points like “Rajathandhiram and “OK ”
Any thoughts 🙂
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Anon
June 1, 2015
@Shabarinath
“As for an industry nearing a century, the leading man is still, the singlemost driving force for the majority (or everyone) to visit the theatres”
That to me is the saddest, most unfortunate part of our movie industry. That we have not been able to move much beyond these regurgitated concepts, in spite of the rich legacy of stories and vast literature we can tap into. That how restrictive, constrained it has made our films. That what should actually be an output of teamwork and shared responsibility always ends up a one-man show. That it keeps spawning the likes of gimmicky stars and star sons intent on attracting crowds rather than genuine actors who should be investing in getting better at their craft. That other groups in the society (women, for instance) are conveniently trampled upon in order to bloat further the omnipotent hero’s big ego. That one man unfairly gets to hog the lion’s share of resources and credit which ideally should be spent and shared better…
…seri, idhoda niruthikkarein…
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venkat ramanan
June 1, 2015
of all the venkat prabhu releasea in kerala, i can surely tell that this time…it will be really tough for massu. and at br, u should go and watch “premam” second film by alphonse puthren of neram. it will b one of the best films of this year, probably become highest grossing mal films. its a kind of film that you cant really call commercial, but still it has everything a commercial flick is and also craft wise too brilliant. i have never seen a film that balances both art and mass. too good. when it comes to chennai do watch it.
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brangan
June 1, 2015
Krish: I think he’s begun to coast. In the sense that the filmmakers he’s working with aren’t pushing him beyond his default level — so we’re getting default-level sogam, default-level romance, default-level kindal etc.
But the good thing is that Suriya’s default level is a pretty good level. So even if we don’t get anything revelatory, even if (as I say in this review) he keeps playing himself, doing the same things, there’s a strong sense of competence.
This is true of Vikram too. He too has a solid default level, so even if he’s just coasting along, he’s easy to watch.
Ravi : Any drunk actions or just the setting of a TASMAC will most likely go over the heads of a very young viewer.
I’m shocked by this logic. You do know that children are influenced by their idols, right? So there’s a HUGE problem with these scenes that make drinking seem like a cool and fun thing to do.
And WTF? The villain sets on fire a woman and her child and people are calling this a “family entertainer”?
I’m not asking for an A certificate, but a UA cert. Since when did all this become suitable viewing for all ages?
I mean, they’re slapping a UA on O Kadhal Kanmani for a sex scene that hardly shows anything. And even the live-in concept is hardly shown in an “adult” manner.
So kids should be shielded from that and not from burning bodies and booze and F-words?
It’s a different thing that kids these days know all these things. But as a regulatory body, you cannot say, “Oh, kids use the F-word all the time. Who cares?” You have to have some guidelines.
I’m sick of these films getting away with blue murder.
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MANK
June 1, 2015
Yeah Brangan, do watch premam. if you thought that neram was brilliantly conceived and staged, just wait till you see this one. Alphonse putharen and the photographer has out did themselves especially scenes shot in natural light and real locations. brilliantly acted again by nivin Pauly.
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Iswarya
June 1, 2015
I think the twisted economics behind the Tamil name+U certificate combination is to blame. By itself, the rule is a travesty of the original intention of granting tax exemption to “good/clean films that promote Tamil culture” (whatever that might mean). I wish the rule has been confined to say, documentaries and some of those old style NFDC-funded features ‘meant to create awareness’ about issues. (Vague memory of such things on DD in my childhood.) If any film deserves such exemption, it’d only be those that don’t have much chance in the regular commercial avenues. Anyway, now that there is a provision for the government to grant tax benefits to certain kinds of mainstream films, the rule could at least be used better.
IIRC, it was VP who pioneered the TASMAC song trend into Tamil movies. In fact, I think BR had written about it in detail in the Chennai-28 review. By now it’s become such a ubiquitous phenomenon that it seems almost a time-honoured part of Tamil cinema. There is, of course, the pointless smoking-and-drinking warnings displayed on the screen, which once again showcase the hypocrisy of the government. Since the tax-exemption clause is still in their hands, can’t they bring these under the conditions for exemption too? The economic incentive would definitely sway a lot of people behind the making of these movies. After all, most of these movies are made on the assembly line without a modicum of artistic integrity and so, there’d be no great reason for the filmmakers to lose any monetary benefits. As for others who have a certain vision that doesn’t conform to such requirements, why, they’d anyway be helping the nation by paying the entertainment tax! Already, there are people who don’t bother too much about these rules and go on to make a “Jigarthanda,” “OKK” or “Kalyana Samayal Saadham.”
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Srinivas R
June 1, 2015
Iswarya: About Tamil name+U certificate combination.. truer words etc. I seriously don’t understand why movies need exemption from tax.
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Ram Murali
June 1, 2015
Ever since “Boys” didn’t get an A rating, I have completely given up on the certification board(s) in Tamil Nadu… the panels keep changing every few years yet the big name movies get away with the most horrendous of scenes and end up getting a U certificate anyway… “poor” Udhaniyidhi laments that his movies don’t get a U rating… even if his movies aren’t exactly family friendly stuff, he at least has reasons to feel livid when he sees movies that have far more violence or sex get much milder ratings… as our Counds would say, “Arasiyal-la idhelaam saadharnamappa!”
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Rahini David
June 1, 2015
I have always considered something weird. The way people assume horror movies with all their blood and gore as innocent fun as long as there is no boob show. I know that they are usually given an A certificate. But even those people who are usually “strict parents” seem too often lenient with paranormal beings creating havoc in their wards’ mind.
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Rajesh
June 1, 2015
I cant believe that a prominent film critic give credit for the idea behind this movie – which is an absolute steal from ‘Ghost town’. Puts you in a very poor light.
So Saroja and Goa are B level. Of course, but Uthamavillain isnt? Your question about concept level would have suited perfectly for Uthamavillain too.
I cant believe Surya is going down, and further again. Why is he going for this kind of stupid stuff again and again. This was a pain to watch. Compared to this, at least Vijay’s last two was bearable – Thuppakki and Kathhi.
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MANK
June 1, 2015
seriously don’t understand why movies need exemption from tax
Srinivas, my question is why should movies be taxed at all. The concept of entertainment tax exist only in this country. This taxing has become just another way for powers that be to play politics of favoritism. worse there are no clear guidelines for exemption. Remember the time when the UP government used to give tax exemption to members of the bachchan family irrespective of the merits of their films
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MANK
June 1, 2015
Brangan, as you feel so strongly about censorship, what is your opinion about the views of kamal, benegal and others that we need to abolish the censor board and that we are ready for self censorship. Do you believe that in a country like ours, with such irresponsible filmmakers we are even close to self censorship?
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vijay
June 1, 2015
“I think he’s begun to coast.”
Understatement of the year. He hasn’t done anything worthwhile in the last half-decade or so. And his default level simply cannot save the likes of Aadhavan or Anjaan for me.
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bart
June 1, 2015
Title gimmicks and U certification, hero intro song, dum(b)my heroine(s), Tasmac scenes, poor graphics, side-kick for hero, waste-hero getting well-settled heroine & a mandatory manobala scene (lucky charm perhaps) … A list of things currently plaguing tamil cinema, found in Masssu.
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Iswarya
June 1, 2015
@Ram Murali:
Ah, “Boys”… Brings back so many funny memories of family censorship! 😀
I had an aunt who’d earlier taken her pre-teen son to ” Vaali” and had closed his eyes with an effective palm-barricade. Even now her rough-and-ready censorship a la Bhagyaraj style is a standing joke in the family. But that’s way better than the horror of watching “Boys” (uncut version, the day after release) as a teen with parents on either side of your seat. A conservative mother alternately fuming at the screen, recoiling in disgust and shooting the odd glare at you and your totally indiscreet dad is the stuff nightmares are made of! And having spent half your time cringing and lowering yourself in the seat, you want to really ‘catch the movie’ with your school buddies later.. But getting permission from your parents to watch it another time in the theatres is its own horror show. Today, you wonder what all the fuss was about! 🙂
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Ravi
June 2, 2015
@Brangan and Srinivas
Yes – there is a scene of a mother and child getting burned alive. But please take a moment to consider how long that scene lasts. Not even 10 seconds if I can remember. Now I am not trying to justify anything but India’s classification system is very limited. I live in the UK, and Masss was rated a 12A (children above 12 can watch at cinema unaccompanied; if you’re younger than that, an adult must be with you) – so basically the British equivalent of U/A. However, the British system classifies films under 5 different brackets (U, PG, 12A, 15, 18). The Indian system only caters for U, U/A and A.
Now how many families are realistically going to say no to watching a big star cast film like Masss? Especially with recognizable heroes such as Surya? The U/A rating is hardly a deterrent for the majority of cinema-goer families. But from the production side, there is an incentive to attain a U certificate so that they are exempt from the dreaded entertainment tax (I think it’s something ridiculous like 30%).
When you have such a confined certification system which stifles creativity in many ways, it’s gonna force the filmmakers into seeking the options which are most financially lucrative. So I disagree that a U or U/A certificate is going to have the impact that many family viewers may be after. Perhaps India should introduce a new, more refined certification board which isn’t as limited. At least that’s my two cents.
As for the argument about children idolizing their stars – why don’t we also stop our stars from beating 100 guys up to a pulp? Why don’t we stop our stars killing the baddies? Why don’t we stop our stars going after the love-interests in a manner which would most likely get you a criminal record if recreated in real life? Once again, I agree that in many cases the classic TASMAC scene offers no plot progression or any other cinematic significance other than being used as a mechanism to show how the protagonist is undergoing “love failure” for the umpteenth time. But, if you are going to use the “idolize/inspire” argument, there are so many factors which we will have to get our stars to stop doing as well. And when you do end up restricting what actors can and cannot do (for the sake of looking/being politically correct and health conscious), it stifles creativity and makes filmmakers complacent – much like the dreaded entertainment tax does.
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Akhilan
June 2, 2015
Hey BR, just on a sidenote, did you manage to catch the trailer of Baahubali…?? Really curious to know your first impression as well as your thoughts on SS Rajamouli as a director. 🙂
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Rahini David
June 2, 2015
Non Sarcasm —> 30% tax? Only now I am even beginning to see what the whole fuss is about. I just presumed that it must some innocuous 5-6%.
Sarcasm —> Only 10 seconds of mom and kiddo burning? Good. I can now breathe. I was worried that it was a full 30 mins with a bathroom break inbetween.
Genuine Question #1 —> “Any drunk actions or just the setting of a TASMAC will most likely go over the heads of a very young viewer. But in the case of a child perhaps aged 7 and above, they are more likely to understand the connotations of a TASMAC scene.”
I don’t understand this logic very well. Children almost always think of nudity as “Funny to us, but makes adults super-excited”. So is nudity ok as well?
Genuine Question #2 —> What are the connotations of a TASMAC scene?
Just Wondering —> The only thing that separates swear words and non-swear words is a certain sting. Why don’t we just remove the sting and make it like any other word. We apparently have done that to kathi-kuthu and T&A shaking already.
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Priyangu
June 2, 2015
I think inherently most human beings in general are very fond of violence, consciously or subconsciously. Whether to flame that desire to enjoy violence or not to is up to the society in its current form; and, the society is defined by who is dominant at present, whether the good guys or the bad guys.
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gvsafamily
June 2, 2015
@Vijay
(going by your comments, any chance you are the Illaya Thalapathy himself? 🙂 )
I’d like to side with BR on this one. I think people are generally overly harsh towards Surya. Surprises me how soon lazy, senseless, misogynistic s**t like Vettaikkaran, Sura or Sivakasi are forgiven and forgotten.
Disclaimer: I am no fan of either Surya or Vijay.
-gvsafamily (aka Anon in these parts)
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Madhu
June 2, 2015
Are certications taken very seriously? On a Billa-2 screening I remember counting ten kids. I counted because I was horrified that there were kids for a movie certified A, but parents still brought in children and towards the end when the heroine’s throat was slit in a scene I heard one of those parents sitting in front of me lamenting about it. And most of the off-color jokes from the likes of Santhanam are played on a loop in our tamil channels, which run without any kind of censorship in most of the homes. Only nudity / lip-locks / sex seem to be the problem.
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Madhu
June 2, 2015
BR: Mirror-image version of the previous layout? I am glad that the biiiiig picture on the top of every page is gone. 🙂
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olemisstarana
June 2, 2015
Ah! So much change!
… actually, this is quite nice. There was something strident about the previous layout.
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neena
June 2, 2015
@Iswarya: aah, ‘Vaali’…That brings back memories I wish I didn’t have! My parents found out that my friends and I had booked tickets for Vaali, they personally confiscated those tickets coz some friend of theirs told them that it wasn’t suitable for teenagers. They hadn’t even seen the film, mind you. There’s more…they went to this theatre and exchanged those tickets for Padayappa..needless to say, I was very unpopular at school for weeks afterward. Five or so years later, I come home from college for summer hols and see a bunch of my cousins aged 8-15 watching Vaali on TV! Apparently, by then Vaali had become tame. Did our media content really make such a leap in inappropriateness/progressiveness between 1999 and 2004?
We seem to have a system of social censorship in place already. My mom tells me now that as a teen, she wasn’t allowed to watch MGR films because he did weird things to the heroines. Only Sivaji films. So much for the thaaikulam adoration that catapulted him to political power.
But, I never understood the fuss about Boys. It tried very hard to shock and that made it funny. I mean, there is a scene where one of the ‘girls’ shows one of the ‘boys’ her index finger instead of ‘giving the finger’!
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vijay
June 2, 2015
Mr. gvsfamily, first of all the original ilayathalapathi is actually a friend of Surya, and I am just his namesake and certainly not a fan of his. Next, no one is talking about his films or praising them there, at least not me, so why drag him into the discussion all of a sudden? Ajitha thittina Vijay fana thaan irukkanum, Vijaya thittina Ajith fana thaan irukkanum, Suryava thittina Vikram fana thaan irukkanum, Kamala thittina Rajni fana thaan irukkanuma.. Surya’s films have mostly sucked since Vaaranam aayiram and that was 7 years back.
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Ravi
June 3, 2015
@Rahini David
You don’t seem to grasp the context I meant that comment in. A 10 second scene of the two characters getting burned alive does not warrant a higher certification for a 2.5 hour film. It is all relative. The actual content on paper is violent but it’s portrayal has minor significance as it wasn’t a recurring issue in the film. Aside from the TASMAC scene (which wasn’t really an issue in this film if you asked me), the single bleeped F-word and the burning of the family, it is questionable whether there were any other inappropriate moments. These scenes equate to maybe 5 mins of screen time out of a 150 minute flick. Hey, let’s stick on a U/A certificate. That’s as big an overreaction as certifying OK Kanmani with a U/A for an implied sex scene which only lasts 5 secs If even that.
Secondly, I will certainly be way more comfortable watching an action flick with my son or daughter than watch some film with plenty of sex and nudity. Sex is just a taboo subject, especially in the Indian communities. Children are exposed to violence more in the form of Hollywood action film, action figures, comic books for boys, cartoon shows based on superheroes etc. So this early exposure to action in itself makes such content a lot more bearable to watch along with kids. Not the key word “bearable”.
By connotations of TASMAC, I meant to say connotations of drinking alcohol. It alters behaviour and generally has a negative representation in society – something which is driven into children from a young age in many ways. If even after all that, a child is going to be traumatised by such a scene and live by the bottle (and God forbid, die by the bottle due to liver cirrhosis), then we are doing something seriously wrong as a nation and as parents.
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gvsafamily
June 3, 2015
@Vijay
Agreed, I dragged actor Vijay into the discussion. Reason – there is a lot of tripe out there, and the big four (Vikram, Surya, Ajith, Vijay) are significant contributors, no doubt. In my opinion, of the four at least Surya and Vikram seem to make some attempt, however misguided, to respect their craft and the audience while Vijay tends to play his usual self over and over again, operating within his self-built narrow framework (underdog, macho messiah of the masses etc.) Haven’t seen enough of Ajith, but he seems to be taking the Vijay route too.
And usually from what I observe, Vijay is leniently let off (excuses being he is a natural, charming performer who just chooses poor scripts etc.) and Surya & Vikram seem to be chastised more – and this is the part I have never been able to understand.
Of course, this is just my opinion and I could be wrong…
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uniquebluerose
June 3, 2015
Not yet watched this movie…and well I think the Surya fangirlism has totally waned in me….leaving me as cynical critic of Suriya…blame Singham 2 and other such movies… Anjaan the trailer and the ek do song was enough to scare me not only form theaters but also from TVs for a long long time
But yeah the discussion of censorship and okness of TASMAC and violence seems a pretty interesting point…BRji may be a seperate article on it….
Kiss is not ok (esp in open) but replace the “s” with “l” and its perfectly ok!!!! Or replace the “k” with “p” and even that is ok…
Many movies which have nudity/molesting (implied and other wise) get “U” certificate….
Does that mean the only thing kids can’t handle is action expressing physical aspects of love…consensual sex is not shown
Everything else stalking/violence/violence against women/nudity/TASMAC scenes everything is OK!!!! Kids won’t understand it and see it as funny …jokes about a women being fat/dark etc etc but of course it’s ok if men are oversized/dark…Kids wouldn’t understand or take cue from such things
But yeah kids would understand kiss and be misguided by it…..
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Prasad
June 3, 2015
“These days, though, I ask myself: “How did he make Chennai 600028 in the first place?””
Actually this is a valid question. Actually there is something called INTENT of a Director. Just take the example Naturals (AK, Hirani, Dibakar, Sriram, Shoojit) who wants to convery something different which are bold and unconventional and also Entertain audience. we have directors like Anand Rai whose movies are somewhat Mediocre but they bring in lot of local flavour and nativity and directors like Zoya Akhthtar who are very clear about their Target Audience (Urban) and of course there are “NO BRAINER” movies which Salman, Sajid and Farah makes.
Unfortunatelly, in Kollywood we just have Mysskin, Karthik Subburaj, Mani and REST OF THE OTHER’s who are happy with Hero centric movies. Probably I may missed one or two like P Ranjith but I don’t see anybody of the new comer’s who can take a story like Karthik or a Mysskin and convey a compelling Story.
Venkat Prabhu ….probabaly at bottom of the graph or slightly above but definitely I don’t think he even has the intent to produce something which we can appreciate. Yes…he may be slightly above Sajid and we can be sure he HAS THE TALENT to catch up Sajid in due course of time.
Am not suprised if he signs his next movie with Vijay and make another sloppy one.
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Rahini David
June 3, 2015
uniquebluerose: The simple rule of thumb is this. If a woman is protesting to being kissed by the hero/villian (when he is punishing her or trying to rape her as the case maybe) , then a U certificate is fine.
If the lady seems fine with the proceedings then it is considered vulgar. Better to give an A certificate.
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Iswarya
June 3, 2015
Rahini:
Another simple way to assess the taboo level of an on-screen kiss is to see who the hero is. Of course, your rule applies here too: if it is Rajini doing it in Arunachalam, Muthu, Enthiran, etc. (even Thambikku Endha Ooru, I think), it is a U-certified lip-lock. If it’s anybody else doing it, then they cast the dice and decide. Another funny factor in making the decision is, whether you see the back of their head, the heroine’s fluttering eyelashes or the simple fact of people kissing.
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Srinivas R
June 3, 2015
About Chennai-28, it had a college skit level Amateurishness, that worked well with the no name cast. It was probably the “naduvula Konjam pakkam” type movie of it’s time.I am a little surprised by the overwhelming praise for that movie in the review and comments. It was funny , but I expected VP to direct more such skit level funny movies. He is simply out of his league with the big star movies and trying to marry them to his funny skit template.
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Madhu
June 3, 2015
Ok, so i am totally digressing. But all this certification talk led me to think of “Aararo aariraro” of Bhagyaraj. I wanted to know what was the certification for a movie that dealt misogynistically with a sexual crime victim. And in the wiki page of this movie, I come across this line in the plot: Meenu has a cousin who is of bad character with all sorts of bad habits in this world. LOL
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neena
June 3, 2015
@Ravi: I am an adult and I am very disturbed by visual depiction of violence, even if it is for only a few seconds. Eg: In the film Thamizhan, a few seconds shot of Revathi frozen in an ice cube still gives me shivers and I have to watch Friends or some Vadivelu bit to get it out of my head. That’s actually an extreme example in my case. Much lesser stuff makes me queasy – like the scene where one of the bureaucrats is knifed in Sivaji (in a comic way, apparently). Blame it on having not watched enough films as a kid, maybe. I find it very problematic that I’m happily watching some masala movie and something like this just pops up unexpectedly, with no warning whatsoever.
Imagine if I had been exposed to this stuff as a kid; I would have been quite a paranoid or traumatised person. Scenes showing nudity or sex are not capable of this sort of mental disturbance. When I want to watch a Hollywood film, or at least a film which has decent entries in IMDB, the site helpfully indicates the time point at which to expect disturbing visuals and the type of visual – nudity or gore or blood or language and so on. I can watch the rest of the film and just shut my eyes or go get a drink at that point. I know, not ideal, but lets me watch some very good movies without having to suffer through sleepless nights later.
Kids discover their sexuality very young and even if they don’t, it is important for them to be aware of sexual touch, intercourse and what can produce babies. So, I can hardly see any rationale behind disallowing them from watching sexual visuals while exposing them to traumatising violence. From what you say, the only reason you want an adult certification for sex or nudity is because of your comfort level with the subject and not your kids’ mental or physical health. That doesn’t seem very fair, does it?
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Rahini David
June 3, 2015
1) For the record, I don’t think any of us is suggesting that x rated stuff do not do anything at all to kids. It is just that blood and gore is taken so lightly. The woman frozen in ice traumatised me as an adult too.
2) I remember getting nightmares after jaws and some random horror movies. If I am not scared of the dark as an adult, I attribute it to me systematically avoiding horror at an young age. I just self-censored even if I was watching TV alone. I see so many adults unable to even sleep alone as they watched horror stuff as wee kids. It is pathetic
3) In general, women do seem to have huge objections to blood and violence. I wonder why BR was once chastised for saying “Demure Housewife”
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Srinivas R
June 3, 2015
@Madhu – given that we have had discussions on mating habits of primates , in the comments section of a Vikraman movie , your is not even digression :). that’s what makes this place fun , no?
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uniquebluerose
June 3, 2015
Thanks Rahini your points always make me wonder why i cannot put across my points as rationally as you…I get passionate and agitated and type with lots of typos etc sometime even lose my long is because I am not properly logged it…
neena….loved everything you said….
Exactly so if Violence is ok and the excuse is kids will not understand it or be traumatized by it then why not show nudity and the voluntary sexual activities like love making etc.
My sister was telling me about some issue that was faced with certification of Mouna Ragam because of divorce.
Does our censor board want to tell us that kids can be wrongly influenced by divorce but not by violence and violence against women….
and there is nothing that justifies what some big stars do in some movies….esp Vijay…his movies specializes on ways to disrespect women and show violence!!!
and if we look into some movies of Surya he also seems to be fast catching up with Vijay….only in his movies he is not much of an direct offender but rather passive
I hated Endihrian for its implied nudity and brutally showing a girls death…unnecessary drama imo…..the violence and over dose graphics in last scenes was eye sore in itself…..
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Iswarya
June 3, 2015
Neena:
Your IMDB point is absolutely valid. For instance, I realised that it was time to turn my face away from the screen while watching “Pulp Fiction” during two sequences I’d been forewarned about (the graphic bleeding nose scene and where Uma Thurman is given an antidote to her drug). Apart from that, I discovered that I quite liked the movie, and mind, I was in my 20’s when I first watched this!
But things can take you unawares as kids and make for a very scarring experience, though what would do that is a very subjective thing. There are scenes I recollect as severely traumatising from my childhood, which might not even strike an adult as anything out of the way! For instance,
This might seem quite unreasonable, but I lost so many nights’ sleep after watching “Mahakavi Kalidas” on TV, when his head is chopped off and falls to the ground, AND CONTINUES SPEAKING FOR A GOOD FIVE MINUTES. (I used to repeatedly wake up in cold sweat, checking if my head was still attached to my torso.)
Yes, frozen Revathi was really hard to take. Even more for me was the domestic help who was raped in “Priyanka” with her being shown as partly clothed, dishevelled and Holi colours thrown on her etc., though of course, the ‘connotations escaped me.’
As a child, the only violence that I could easily swallow was that in cartoons, especially where you see no permanent damage inflicted, like Tom ‘n’ Jerry, Sylvester and Tweety, etc.
And the most galling part is that much of this is gratuitous. I mean, I can’t think of how “Thevar Magan” could have been any less violent (and that is purely a case of parental indiscretion in subjecting me to it) given its theme. But a movie we went to as teenage schoolgirls bunking classes (on my birthday, to boot) had a gratuitous stunt scene where the goon is beaten by the hero (which is normal) and has his hand baked on a giant skillet nearby as a part of the fight. Needless to say, my birthday was ruined and though I’m not able to look up the exact certification given to “Joot: Are you ready” now, I’m assuming it must have been U, since we were unaccompanied minors still in school uniforms! So, there’s some complex systemic failure when it comes to protecting our kids from permanent psychological damage.
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SG
June 3, 2015
gvsafamily: If you are the same person as Anon, going by your comments you seem to have an axe to grind against Vijay. I remember in another unrelated thread (Gabbar is back) you were comparing Kareena Kapoor with Vijay. It’s not healthy to hate a person irrationally. 🙂
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Madhu
June 4, 2015
@Srinivas R: Oh my, which discussion is that, you have made me curious. And thank you for the assurance. 🙂
@Neena: Sexual education and / or discussion on good touch or bad touch is entirely different from having a screening of ‘The Dirty Picture’ to the children. I totally agree with you that we as a society tend to care or worry about exposing children to sexuality rather than violence or profanity. But, I don’t agree that kids can see, say a ‘Wolf of wall street’.
@Rahini David: I kept all my lights on after ‘Pisasu’. He he, whether I believe in God or not is immaterial, I am definitely scared of ghosts 😛
3) In general, women do seem to have huge objections to blood and violence. I wonder why BR was once chastised for saying “Demure Housewife”
I am not aware of the comment, nor the context. The problem in general with people getting prickly over certain way of picturizations (South Indian men always wear three white marks on their forehead and a pristine white dhoti) or certain perceptions (housewives watch mega serials) is that, IMHO they become stereotypes. And well, it’s not that stereotypes are lies, just that they are a very narrow strip of truth. I generally do not comment when I don’t know the background, I made an exception now, because that exact phrase “demure housewife” was used in relation with me very recently by an acquaintance who had no knowledge of my career being on “temporary”, I repeat temporary hold. I still would have forgiven that person had the phrase not contained the word “demure” (I am the blood and gore watching person in my family, you see). So, this is in reply to that phrase…
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Rahini David
June 4, 2015
Madhu: Looks like you are new to the blog
The Case of the Demure Housewife
Primate Mating Habits and Such things
This was pretty interesting too.
I hear you regarding the stereotypes and such things and my thoughts on it is still unruly and will be beyond the scope of normal digressions anyway. I will take that to my own blog (I have one now, yippee) and link it here as soon as I can manage.
Uniquebluerose: Thanks 🙂
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Gradwolf
June 4, 2015
@gvsafamily:
Vijay is let off leniently because no one expects anything different from him whereas with Surya and Vikram we have evidence to suggest what they are capable of and what they have done before. It’s a bit like how one would be disappointed if someone like Parvathy (to take an example from the actresses side of things) goes the Trisha route – from where she is currently – but from Trisha herself, no one expects any different stuff as there hasn’t been a single swim against the tide in a fairly long and successful career.
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Madhu
June 4, 2015
@Rahini: Yes, I am pretty new to this blog. Following since 6 or 8 months max. 🙂 Those links… you just made my day. Thanks. My thoughts on stereotypes aren’t very solid either. I always think, when I am subjected to it or we (as Indians / South Indians / Tamil / Tamil girls / many such sub groups within which I fall) are on the receiving end of the stereotypes, I get naturally offended. But, we all DO stereotype something or something at any given point of time. I expressed my discontent over “demure housewife” because I was recently subjected to it. So, getting prickly or offended at something basically depends on our threshold at that point of time, I would say. Yes, I know you have a blog (you graduated me, remember? 😀 ) and I loved your thoughts on Sindhu Bhairavi. When it comes to KB movies, I either love them or hate them. And Sindhu Bhairavi belongs to the “hate” side of the scale.
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gvsafamily
June 4, 2015
SG: ha, ha! Can I rationally hate though? BTW, when I was typed that comment, I thought I was paying him a compliment 😉
Gradwolf: Yeah, true perhaps, but difficult to digest – since it seems as though with every participant (actor) there is a different benchmark s/he is measured against, but the prize money they are vying for (read box office glory, fandom etc.) is the same. Like someone mentioned, when Rajni kisses it is perfectly ok, when someone else does the same it becomes offending to senses…
Uniquebluerose: You took the words right out of my mouth (w.r.t. the Vijay-Surya comparison, I mean) and to think that he gets away with it with absolutely no damage to his image.
Anyway, do not want to turn this into another of those pointless Thala-thalapathy-blahblah slugfest, so will stop for now 🙂
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olemisstarana
June 4, 2015
BR: You need to start a podcast. I know you have a million things going on and I have zero knowledge of the viability of podcasting in India, but the joy that I have gotten from some of the podcasts here – This American Life, Radiolab, Backstory (etc.!) – is equaled only by reading the comments on your site.
Maybe a bi-weekly podcast, or even a monthly where you identify themes that surface in your comment sections, maybe bring someone in the industry who would have some expertise and then intersperse it with a history-of-Indian-cinema kind of episode.
Even as I type this, I realize that I have no idea of what the climate is there, and how politically correct you might have to be. But I had to throw this out there.
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udhaysankar
June 4, 2015
brangan: Why the new layout that darkens your own comments? I thought comments section was an level playground where other voices are as strong as yours. The darkening discriminates the author from other commentors… 😀
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gvsafamily
June 4, 2015
@uniquebluerose
oh, and I forgot to mention that Endhiran disturbed me too, for 2 reasons –
The nudity-drama like you mention, and also the implicit message that death/sobs is typically the end for a woman who even accidentally exposes more skin than she should. (Unless of course she is a Khushboo who does so in private, in which case she gets to marry Rajni!)
The scene where Sana and Chitti travel back by train after the exams. A group tries to gang-rape her publicly and film the incident, for God’s sake and what is the punishment the goons get for that criminal act? Light bruises and continuing to be her neighbors as if nothing happened (as shown in the very next song)
That even this degree of misogyny did not bother anyone associated with the movie, Rajni and Aishwarya Rai included, is shameful!
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Ravi
June 4, 2015
@Neena
So surely by your logic, it is also unfair to certify violence movies with an adult certificate just because it is not within your comfort level?
Nowhere am I saying all sexual material should be blanket certified with A ratings. The debate is taking a whole new tangent now. I quote myself once again “so this early exposure to action in itself makes such content a lot more bearable to watch along with kids” – for the 2nd time now, note the key word “bearable”.
Please show me a children’s primetime TV show/cartoon which delves into sexual activity as much as it does so into comic violence. So statistically, there is nothing wrong in me saying that children are more accustomed to violent material than they are with sex/nudity. As Madhu put it eloquently, I am all for allowing children to discover their sexuality and whatnot by watching such films but just because of that, I will not necessarily be comfortable with letting them watching a film like “The Dirty Picture”.
I can guarantee you right now that if you asked any adult member of the family audience, they will all most likely agree that they are more comfortable with viewing action over romance alongside their kids. Once again, when I also say I am more comfortable with watching violent movies with my kids, people’s go-to image is that I am watching Rambo or some Quentin Tarantino flick with my 2 year old kids. Violence can be something as simple as a simple punch to the face. There are extremes on either side – I wouldn’t be comfortable showing a film like Aaru or even Tamizhan (like you said) to my kids but likewise I would hesitate to watch a film like The Dirty Picture.
Your comment about IMDB is very valid. Unfortunately, Indian cinema doesn’t have a means of really expressing that information yet (unless it’s from reviews).
My comments all seem to be getting “thumbs downed” despite the fact that I am supporting that our certification system is flawed but oh well, I kind of expected people to agree with whatever little they want from my comment and discard everything else as wrong/morally objectable – much like the Indian certification board 😛
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neena
June 4, 2015
I didn’t think it was necessary to include this caveat. But, yes, I do not mean that X-rated stuff or ‘The Dirty Picture’ should be for kids’ viewing. When I said sexuality, I meant things like consensual sex and realistic depictions of sexual romance – like a proper lip-lock. Ironically, directors, in order to avoid adult ceritifcation, do go in for sexual depictions of the x-rated variety rather than an actual portrayal of sex, as BR pointed out in his post of the ‘demure housewife’ fame 😛
Thank you for that link, Rahini.
From the same post: “When I was in school, I routinely watched action sequences, but the action choreography then was just a bunch of karate or kung fu moves – what used to be called dishoom-dishoom – and no one took any of it seriously. Even the blood looked fake. It looked like the red paint it was. So there was no question of being traumatised or becoming immune to violence – because it was all so clearly make-believe.”
The cartoon comic violence stuff is surely of this category? What primetime does is not necessarily right and primetime is the TV equivalent of the ‘family entertainer’ that is under discussion here. It’s because there is a problem in the way such popular media is censored/categorised/rated that we have this discussion now. Re-reading that post also made me think, why do filmmakers keep trying to up the level of violence and its shock value in these films? Is it only because they now have the technical means to do so or is it because of a rise in our threshold to be unperturbed by it? As Iswarya said, you can’t imagine Thevar Magan without graphic depiction of violence. But, why do generic masala movies need it?
“So surely by your logic, it is also unfair to certify violence movies with an adult certificate just because it is not within your comfort level?”
As Iswarya pointed out, I agree that what is disturbing to each of us is subjective. But, there are some easily imaginable universals in disturbing graphic violence and a censor board would have to work with those, I expect – like a severed hand or a body frozen inside an ice cube. They obviously can’t cater to my level of sensitivity – for eg, they can’t rate Sivaji ‘adult’ for that scene of a guy getting comically knifed. But, they could indicate the instances and types of disturbing content in films like IMDB does. That could be the answer to BR’s question from the other post – is the censor board even necessary?
Btw, about the demure housewife thing, I’m constantly surprised by how my female friends and relatives who are supposedly less feisty, perhaps more demure, and more home-oriented than me are immune to graphic violence. They, in turn, are surprised that I, the so-called bold feminist in their eyes, cower in my seat through action movies. That was a really bad stereotype to pick, BR!
About stereotypes in general, I do think that some stereotypes are more harmful than others. Like someone pointed out in the other post – the Viswaroopam controversy was totally justified coz it comes in the context of a society where innocent muslims fear being arrested in the pretext of some terror act, or even denied entry into the west. The film cannot be seen as just employing a certain characterisation. It or the demure housewife thing is not the same as a stereotype of Iyer mama turning his nose up at non-vegetarian food. The housewife and the iyer mama and the innocent muslim do not live with the same set of advantages and priviliges in our social and political context. That does make a difference. In a film, yes, it is tiring to keep seeing iyer mamas with funny accents and money-minded marwari men and no further nuance in their characterisation. But, those stereotypes are not dangerous in the way the stereotypical depiction of women or religious minorities are. It is another matter that the ‘good muslim’ is the trope now, as if any other kind of muslim is immediately suspect!
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Iswarya
June 5, 2015
Ravi: I think the primary difference that Neena highlighted was that censor certification has to do with the impact on mental health of the children, and not the potential embarrassment of the parents who watch the movie with their children. The “bearable” point you raise has no bearing as such on the ‘impact’ of violence or sex, but only on keeping parents in their comfort zone.
And the reference to cartoon violence is really wide of the mark, for the simple reason that cartoon shows a kind of resilience in its characters which children cannot confuse with real life. For instance, Tom can fall off 15 floors, crack into pieces on hitting the ground and then shake himself and get up. This kind of violence cannot be easily extrapolated into real life with flesh-and-blood characters because children themselves know that injuries in real life produce lasting physical damage. The obvious unreality of cartoon violence (and more importantly, children’s own shrewd perception of its unreality) protects them from any long-term scarring. Anyway, since you made a reference to cartoon and sexual activity, and since we’ve been discussing on-screen kissing, you can go back and look at cartoons featuring Mickey and Minnie Mouse or Popeye and Olive Oyl, to see not just kissing, but sparks(or rather little hearts!) flying while they are it. In fact, Bluto in the Popeye cartoons regularly attempts molestation of Oyl, while Popeye rushes to her rescue. But the whole point is that, none of this is graphic to the extent ‘real’ (as opposed to animated) images can be, and therefore, their impact is much more limited. Another example of this distancing effect is borne out by the fact that “Aalavanthan” (and “Kill Bill”) substituted animated images for gory scenes. So, exposure to cartoon violence DOES NOT prepare children for a ‘safe’ viewing of real scenes of gore.
Finally, if I were a parent taking my kid to a movie that has more sexual activity than what a child would see in real life, will I feel delicate? Honestly, yes. I might even squirm a little in my seat. But will that somehow make the content much more ‘inappropriate’ and damaging for my kid than graphic violence or spookiness? Definitely, no. And which of these two considerations should the censor board give more importance to? I think that’s the question we’re discussing.
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sanjana
June 5, 2015
The simple and sensible thing is to watch the movies without kids if the movie has good wom. Both violence and sex may leave some mark on some kids. Kids have emulated certain stunts and lost their lives. Sex scenes may make them look at opposite sex with different perspective.Even if is their own siblings or cousins. One needs a certain age, maturity, education and guidance to understand these things in proper context.
Why Mahatma Gandhi and Lincoln are role models instead of Hitler? Why we have detailed biographies of the good role models in school books and nothing about others?
True, history lessons are anything else but about wars and conquests. But they spare the kids the graphic details. Natural selection and Discovery channels depict how wild animals chase and kill their prey which is also quite gruesome. And kids are allowed to watch them!
Sex is taught in school text books as biological function to produce kids than an act of pleasure and pain!
So there are no fast and hard rules.
No doubt when children grow up they look at their parents with amusement.
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Rahini David
June 5, 2015
I remember reading Women’s Era as a child of 10 and read the very same arguments about how children should be ultra-protected against stunts as they may emulate them. I remember feeling pretty offended by the thought expressed in the article. I felt that the author was insulting the intelligence of children in general.
I remember watching Moondram Pirai as a child of 7-8. I was pretty offended that Sridevi was supposed to depict the maturity of a 6 year old. I felt that her behaviour (like asking for an Ice Cream that was in the hand of another child) was much more immature than any real 6 year old.
I remember that I did have access to the Agony Aunt and Health Sections of Women’s Era (I read each and every word), but I am not sure if I saw the brothel scene of Moondram Pirai at that age itself.
I watched the Pudhu Pudhu Arthangal shower scene in the theatre. To be very frank, I was highly amused. I must have been 9.
My point? I don’t seem to have one.
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sanjana
June 5, 2015
That act of Sridevi. Even a 4 year old behaves much better. I think the director must have thought the act as cute.
Even I dont remember what I saw when I was in those formative years. But I remember what I read.
I am talking about stunt acts and hanging scenes shown through invasive TV. There were news reports that children tried hanging with a rope and succeeded.
Kids will know many things when they interact with their schoolmates.
So censorship at home will not work.
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neena
June 5, 2015
Thanks, Iswarya. That was very clear – the difference between embrassment to the accompanying adult and the impact on the child. I was trying to come up with a better way of saying it – the violence we see in films, all of us hope and expect we’d never have to witness in real life, let alone experience, be it at the giving or receiving end. Children don’t have to become aware of the existence and possibility of such violence. Sex, on the other hand, we all hope and expect to engage in at some point of time. Children or at least pre-teens probably are already engaging in it one way or the other. Watching it on screen is, hence, not traumatic, but exciting at the most.
Rahini: this discussion does seem to have brought childhood memories rushing to many of us!
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uniquebluerose
June 5, 2015
what is watchable as kids or with kids seems to be compared by many just in sense of Action and Romance
There is difference between Action and mindless gore and vulgarity which is passed as Action.
Same hold true for Romance also…when stalking and molesting in shown as romance why not consensual kiss or other romance???
What i do not understand it yes kids cartoon does show lot of comic mindless action…..But did not the fairy tales have romance…Snow white or Sleeping beauty for that matter????
So why the assumption that kids cannot stomach Romance but can of course take Action….or rather why gore is being equated with action justified to no end
More than the action or violence and gore being not censored by worry is with all kind fantasied notion of romance and love some big star movies project….
I again at the risk of being hated by some come to Endiran and Vijay movies….He practically insults Asin in one movie and in the next scene she falls in love with him….He suggests sex before marriage and that she is ready for it with bottle of poison saying she will die the next day implying that ideally a girl should kill herself if she has sex before marriage….why …and what message is it sending to kids…The above mentioned movie had a whole lot of twisted logic and had U certification…no surprises there.
I remember in NH10 when a mother law slaps her daughter in law the grandson or mother of kid just laughs amused…I wondered whether the kid who is used to “violence” and thinks its ok for moms and women to be beated/molested etc….
Going back to Mouna Ragam and movies like OKK…or even PIKU i wonder what there in these movies that needed UA if movies like masss, Sivakasi and Endhiran do not need it….
I think I am totally going off track with this stuff but…then justifying mindless violence getting “U” certification just because we have Tom and Jerry banging each other head and kids watching it amused is no excuse….imo
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uniquebluerose
June 5, 2015
and gvsafamily
you have literally put it so much better than me in the case of Endhiran….reminds me of ceiling fan add with a censor board theme and he says….
Ladki dhikaye tho nude…or Ladka dhikaye tho dude….
Movies like these and of course many other seems to implying some totally unreasonable rules or norms which people should follow and that seems to so unreasonable….
The same Vivek who teases the dark girls in Shivaji or Rajnikanth himself reacts otherwise when Shreya mentions it..
In movie Duet it was wrong when one girl teases Prabhu….but of course in OKOK it was ok for guy to tease Hansika…its a comedy
A man can sacrifice his love for sister and family in all the family dramas but if girl does it …all girls are cheaters and lets have saruku song
Oh I can go on and on and let me stop here and apologies for digressing!!!
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Madan
June 6, 2015
Why Mahatma Gandhi and Lincoln are role models instead of Hitler?
I don’t know if anybody on this ‘forum’ watched it but there was an interesting episode of Nee Yaa Naana which dealt with the subject of the current generation of adolescents and how they are viewed by their parents. What emerged was most parents in the show wanted their kids to be street smart, intelligent and ambitious and none, literally none, wanted them to be honest, compassionate and loving. Food for thought, if only vaguely related to this unrelated conversation on a review of a Surya film. 😉
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