I hate to lose readers and I’m sorry things have come to this. But I need to say a few things:
This blog thing, it’s not a full-time thing — though, of late, it’s begun to feel like one. In the limited time that I have, I try to skim through comments and approve them. (It’s not easy, believe me, given the size of some comments in relation to the size of my phone.) It’s not a perfect system. I am not a perfect man. There may be things that I don’t mind that others will mind. It’s not that I approve of what’s being said. It’s just that I’m a sucker for free speech, and I believe that that includes people saying nice things as well as people saying nasty things. And things correct themselves due to these very people. If enough nasty things are said, I am sure people are going to raise their voices — as has indeed been the case — and we can look at solutions.
One solution might be to ignore the offender — don’t feed him or her. After all, the name is up there on top. Don’t read the comment. Go on to the next comment and continue your discussion. That’s what I would do.
Or else, bring it up. And I’ll make a note. Be extra careful about reading that person’s comments before approving them. Think of it like someone taking a dump on your street every day. If you don’t say anything, the impression may be that you have gotten used to holding your nose and walking past. But if you speak up, there’s a chance the Corporation will listen and clean things up. I realise this example has made me a shit-cleaner, but if that’s what I have to do, then that’s what I have to do.
But again, it is the Internet, folks. As much as I’d like it to be like a cosy adda session, you are going to be rubbing shoulders with people who you wish weren’t born. It is not for me to tell you how to deal with these people — that has to come from within you. But if you feel this blog has ceased to cater to your needs and sensibilities, then you should stop coming here. I would hate it if readers came here and left feeling awful. But I cannot promise that all comments will be moderated perfectly before they appear. As I said, it’s not a perfect system. I am not a perfect man.
Thank you for reading. Sincerely, genuinely, from the bottom of my heart.
Baradwaj Rangan 
Nee
March 3, 2016
A more perfect blog could not have been written on the subject. Agree whole heartedly with you on everything you say. Bravo.
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Tambi Dude
March 3, 2016
OMG, you actually spend time approving comments? Why do you do that? Seems to be a waste of time. Let people write what they want to write. Over a period of time, people will learn to distinguish noise from signal.
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Amit Joki
March 3, 2016
BR: thala…neenga gavalaye padaathinga…those so-called trollers will be taken care of by us. Neenga review a eludhi thallunga….enga thalaya pathi evanaachu thappa sonna…adutha vaati apdi solrathukku munnadi aayiram thadava yosikra maari pannirom.
Seriously, I don’t think people who hate your blog often visits it, and if they do, just let them be.
This blog thing, it’s not a full-time thing — though, of late, it’s begun to feel like one ipdi solli naluva paakathinga solliputten…
.
.
.
PS: Overa pesiten…I’ve been on a comment-spree recently…en comment intha post a inspire pannirunchuna…enakku sariyana bulbu…adhunaalaa adhuva iruntha atha namakullaye irukattum 😀
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
March 3, 2016
Oh God ! What prompted this ? Please Please dont discontinue the blog
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jussomebody
March 3, 2016
It’s interesting how you wrote this piece about how other readers feel reading an offensive comment. I am sure it’s somewhat terrifying for you to put things out there, whether on a blog or on Facebook. For all of the democratization of the internet and all that, and no matter how long you have been doing this, I still think it takes great courage to express your opinions (as opposed to say, talking about your life in a blog), and it must only get more scary as your readership grows, no? The fandom must feel great, but I am sure the offensive trolling really feels hurtful. You are only human to want to weed that out, in addition of course, to making sure readers don’t feel awful reading the comments 🙂
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Anu Warrier
March 4, 2016
BR, seeing as I was one of the people who got ‘offended’ – I realise that my stance on not wanting to engage in the sort of sleaze that’s been bandied will result in me losing out on a community of people who love movies as much, if not more than I do.
I could have, when matters came to head, continued to keep quiet. After all, apex did not target me personally. I could have said ‘Not my circus, not my monkeys’. But I couldn’t. Not if I wanted to get up in the morning and face myself. I couldn’t watch something that I knew was wrong and remain silent any more. I can ignore a troll. Not someone like this, who deserves to be called out.
I get that this is the Internet. I get that this is not your full time job. Neither is reading your blog or commenting on it, mine. (Of course, the frequency with which I comment, and the length of my comments must leave that statement in doubt.) However, I feel it’s a copout to say that it’s up to us to deal with offensive comments any which way we like, because we are adults and this is the internet.
For one, this is a moderated blog. Secondly, do you really want to be that person who turns a blind eye when something so blatant is pointed out to him? Thirdly, cyber bullying and sexual harassment of women on the Internet are beginning to come under the purview of the law, here at least. Make no mistake about it – the sort of comments that were levelled at women posters in the last couple of days amounts to sexual harassment. Make that statement in person in most companies here in the US, and that poster would merit a call to HR at the very least, and having his employment terminated at the worst.
I realise that my not reading your blog or commenting on your posts is not a great loss to you; I’m just one of the many people who enjoy your writing. Others will come to take my place. What is, or should be, a loss is that this blog was a safe, civil place where people debated extensively, disagreed with each other – passionately, sometimes; and still managed to maintain a decorum that was an oasis of fresh breath on the Internet. That is what is being lost here. And that is a shame.
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jussomebody
March 4, 2016
Oh man, just caught up on all the comments on another thread. That’s why my earlier comment sounded so clueless. Apologies.
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Ram Murali
March 4, 2016
“One solution might be to ignore the offender — don’t feed him or her. After all, the name is up there on top. Don’t read the comment. Go on to the next comment and continue your discussion.”
–> BR, that’s not a bad solution at all. Additionally, I think you may have seen this in several comments of late. I want to join in the chorus to request you to remove the upvotes and downvotes. As someone recently mentioned, they seem to serve no response other than fueling hatred, people thinking that others inflate them through sneaky means, etc. Earlier, it used to be a nice tool to convey one’s appreciation. This could be done with just the like button. Again, one can ignore the downvotes as well. But as a commenter, it can be deflating and distracting. Please please please consider this.
Here’s a open plea to tonks, Anu Warrier, et al that have considered quitting, taking a break, etc.
Could I request you to reconsider your decision? I am being completely selfish here. But the truth is that multiple perspectives are what make a blog different from say a newspaper article. In the case of the latter, I remember BR once mentioning in an interview that his reviews are a way of “shaping the cinematic lens of the reader.” What he helps us achieve with this blog is acquiring multiple lenses based on myriad perspectives of commenters. As sappy as it may sound, let us not deprive each other of those ‘lenses.’ There are so many commenters in here that enjoy your eloquent comments that at least I personally would like to request you to continue commenting. Of course, if you choose not to, I completely respect that decision too.
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Shankar
March 4, 2016
You are losing readers…especially some of your earliest ones. That may sadly be true!
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brangan
March 4, 2016
Anu Warrier: Secondly, do you really want to be that person who turns a blind eye when something so blatant is pointed out to him?
I am not turning a blind eye. As I said in this post, I am reading certain comments more carefully. Which means I am responding to readers’ requests.
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Amit Joki
March 4, 2016
Okay saw the other thread and now i realize that my earlier comment sounds stupid and absurd. My apologies.
Secondly i second Anu Warrier. It is like saying that though the government has full power and authority to stop crimes against women, by punishing those criminals, it offers an easy way out by asking the women to stay in their homes.
Is that revolutionary? I don’t think so. And sorry if my analogy is irrelevant. I hope it isn’t.
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brangan
March 4, 2016
Ram Murali: I get the feeling that it’s your incessant obsession with downvotes that’s making mischief-makers f*ck around with you, because they KNOW you are going to make a comment saying “oh look, I got downvoted again.”
Even after everyone’s forgotten that comment where someone called you a clown, or where olemisstarana said something about you (I think about moral policing), you keep bringing back those phrases (within quotes) and reminding everyone how it affected you, how it’s stuck with you.
I’m sorry if this sounds harsh, but I’ve taken a course on this phenomenon (among other cyber-things), and this sort of victim behaviour is a GUARANTEED way of making people pounce on you. Of course, I wish people were kinder, gentler, more considerate. But for your own good, do consider developing a thicker skin.
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brangan
March 4, 2016
And apex, would it kill you to consider the fact that you may have offended people and apologise? I’m not going to force you to. It’s a free world, and all that crap. But surely this chorus of dissent must have made you think about the possibility that you may have hurt some feelings.
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Mani AJ
March 4, 2016
Hi BR – I am quoting the following from The Simpson’s – the treasure trove of life quotes:
“Homer: How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive?”
Chillax sir … some ole stuff must find their way out for the new to come on in … many cheers.
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brangan
March 4, 2016
I seem to remember that I did not have upvotes / downvotes, and then people asked for it. Does anyone remember that phase? Sorry, but I really seem to be losing my mind 🙂
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brangan
March 4, 2016
Shankar: There’s nothing “sad” about this phenomenon. It’s the natural way of things.
People will move on because they no longer have time in their lives, or because your writing style no longer appeals to them, or because the comments section no longer interests them, or whatever. I once had someone say they liked me before I got the National Award but afterwards I became too “mainstream” for them. I still don’t know what that meant 🙂
It’s like death. Instead of mourning the event, I feel it’s better to accept it as inevitable and celebrate the fact that someone was by your side for a part of your life and left behind some great memories.
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Nee
March 4, 2016
Surely you can ask people to apologize. But what good would that do on internet/virtual world? People decide (should I put that in single quotes or double) that they want to be hurt by deliberately misconstruing what you write (Rahini, Ole, P/puny, apex all have done that to me). It has happened so many times, I lose count. Then you go hoarse or blue in your face telling them that that is not what you said but they want to hold on to their view points and continue to be hurt. Then should I be guilty and apologetic about things I never said?! So who should apologize to whom? If you repeatedly ignore the person, they will stop coming to your blog comment section and commenting. It is not so in real life when you are in vulnerable situation (feeding baby or wearing small skirt). So there is a definite difference and non-comparable therefore. Crying wolf in virtual world is same as crying wolf in real world when there was no wolf.
1) Best thing is to blog with no comment section: no feed back; no gratification but sheer joy of writing
2) Blog with comment moderation: Wean out what YOU think is correct/incorrect without getting influenced by personal prejudices. Let there be few pertinent comments related to movies and movies alone and interact with only a handful commentators that excite the grey-blue cells. So the coterie back-slapping comments will have to stop too. hehaw.
3) Let there be free world: Let the commentators duke it out. After all, the august company has lot of grey matter and also their brooms to beat or better still scare up virtual ghosts of apexes with their haggle toothed smiles, Why run up to baddy-daddy for every small boo-boos.
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Nee
March 4, 2016
“It’s like death. Instead of mourning the event, I feel it’s better to accept it as inevitable and celebrate the fact that someone was by your side for a part of your life and left behind some great memories.”
It is not always true. They may be reading and continue to read and stil enjoy the blogs/thoughts. They just don’t comment or want more closeness to the blogger. Sometimes the new-ness and all the excitement it brings with it, is gone. So You shouldn’t think of it as “death” but as morphing.
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olemisstarana
March 4, 2016
Alright BR. I’m going to try and say something here that might not come across as completely coherent because this entire business including your response to it has been extremely… dispiriting. Like it or not, whether or not this takes up 100% or just an iota of your time, this community has been has formed with your words as nucleus, so I think referring to yourself as corporation is just plain disingenuous. I love Starbucks, but I don’t have the same respect for its Twitter account, though I will say that if an Apex appeared on a corporate account and said the things he does, he’d be shut down post haste.
I enjoy your writing. I read your reviews. I disagree and agree with you. I watch movies only after I skim your review with one eye closed so I can decide or not to spend my hard earned $15 and my few and far between evenings on a movie, and then come back and read each word to form connections within and without the movie, to place this piece of celluloid in a larger context, and for that you are invaluable. Omkara was my first blog, too. Living away from India this has kept me in touch with more than just the Friday releases. I realized though, today, that I can do all this by reading your column on the online version of the Hindu and I lose just the online community that, despite the usually stratospherically cerebral quality has taken such a sharp nosedive that I… oh well.
You give us tools BR, whether it is this blank space to type the comment out, the buttons to share the blog, the like button or the up/downvotes. I am assuming it is for our convenience and for us to interact more with your writing and with each other, correct? Then when several of us tell you that this tool seems to not be working, that it is compromised, is your response really don’t be so sensitive?
You asked us here to document because this is, admittedly, a gargantuan undertaking you have shouldered. So Anu scalpels out the most egregious instances of word-excretion from /one/ single post for you. What next? It’s a tad bit patronizing then to come on here and tell us that we should just not read these comments that have our name and descriptions of our faces and references to our family on them. It’s damn personal and very uncomfortable. It’s the sleazy man standing on the bus next to you, trying to stare down your shirt while you clutch your books closer. I hate, /haaate/ pulling the woman card here, but BR you just don’t get it.
I know others have pointed out instances of interactions that border on flirting, and I’d like to say that way before this post, I took that to heart and really didn’t mind any of that. At worst I’d roll my eyes and mutter “get a room, you guys.”
But when my name is mentioned over and over again, that’s when I start to get uncomfortable. It is easy to reverse engineer my identity from this site. My image from that wonderful afternoon when I got to meet Rahini and others and you in Chennai is on this site. I’ve been free with which city I live in, my work, my opinions everything, because naively or otherwise, I trusted the corporation. There are some who will say, your damn fault. You know what, they are right, my damn fault. I was asking for it, and I am to blame, so I should stop pulling the victim card out. ~Fin~
Your blog loses absolutely nothing when a handful of us go silent.
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brangan
March 4, 2016
olemisstarana: I’m really sorry if that’s how this post sounded. (Vanya wrote in as well.) And I just want to clarify what I was trying to say:
The hold-your-nose example was not about THIS specific instance, but about the Internet in general.
In this specific instance, I was appalled at the examples Anu dug up (which I somehow seem to have skimmed right past, because apex’s comments aren’t the easiest to read). For the past couple of days, I have begun to pay close attention to apex’s comments and censor out things.
Yes, I should have done this earlier as well. But I was really preoccupied with some personal stuff, and I slipped up. THIS IS NOT AN EXCUSE, I know. But maybe I got too complacent about the quality and temperament of commenters here, and got lax about vetting each comment thoroughly. It is my bad and I accept blame.
Believe me, I am not being insensitive to the “woman card” issue you bring up. I just thought you guys were duking it out with apex and giving it right back in style. And that seemed par for the course, as no one was taking it lying down.
Now I know better.
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Ram Murali
March 4, 2016
BR:
Ram Murali: I get the feeling that it’s your incessant obsession with downvotes that’s making mischief-makers f*ck around with you, because they KNOW you are going to make a comment saying “oh look, I got downvoted again.”
–> My previous comment was NOT about my downvotes at all. It’s been a while since I have been bothered by downvotes esp. since I have not been taking part in any of these heated arguments recently. This was a sentiment echoed by a few commenters like Vanya, newbie, olemisstarana, et al in the “Vacation Notes” post which is why in my previous comment, I mentioned that I wanted to “join in the chorus” to request you to removing the upvotes and downvotes.
Even after everyone’s forgotten that comment where someone called you a clown, or where olemisstarana said something about you (I think about moral policing), you keep bringing back those phrases (within quotes) and reminding everyone how it affected you, how it’s stuck with you.
–> Olemisstarana offered me a piece of advice that I took to heart and acknowledged it with a smile a couple of times because it made me not get too neck deep into and offer any thoughts on some of the nasty discussions that were happening. She is a commenter whose views I really respect, that’s all.
And, regarding the “joker” comment, you mentioned nothing when that rude comment was made because you wanted to keep the spirit of free speech. I was left to deal with that myself. Now, you feel the need to bring that up? Yes, that “joker” comment hurt me a lot. I am not denying that.
But back to my previous comment in this post — All kinds of negative and nasty comments are flying thick and fast. And, I was only trying to offer a suggestion and I feel like you pounced on me a bit unnecessarily saying things like “incessant obsession” and all that. Having said that, I am also (sincerely) accepting your well meaning advice to me to develop a thicker skin because even this comment of mine shows my thin skin!
Maybe I should take a short break myself instead of trying to offer more comments and getting too involved with what is not even my blog.
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Gradwolf
March 4, 2016
For what it’s worth, I do think there could be a correlation with the direction the comments space has taken since introducing the upvote/downvote thing. It is a very internet forum/reddit habit and it is known to lead to all kinds of skirmishes everywhere. I frankly don’t know why we need it. If you like or dislike something someone said, express it. Or keep it to yourself. Why take the half-measure of clicking on a button that seems inconsequential at first but has worse ramifications in the long run.
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venkatesh
March 4, 2016
I leave you for 1 week (blame long flights) and you all end up hassling BR.
(twirls non-existent moustache, hikes veshti and brings aruvaal down).
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brangan
March 4, 2016
Gradwolf: But wasn’t this upvotes / downvotes thing something that was asked for? Or did I randomly decide to implement it?
I seem to recall it’s the former.
I really don’t mind abandoning it.
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olemisstarana
March 4, 2016
BR: Thank you, really, for your response. Much to chew, much to mull.
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brangan
March 4, 2016
And people are wrong when they say it doesn’t matter if a few voices fall silent. Everyone that leaves takes a little bit of this blog with them.
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Rahini David
March 4, 2016
Apex: C’mon, I know u have the “maturity” to take this in the right context. I do. Thanks.
Nee: I don’t remember engaging with you in any thread and honestly do not know what made you feel that was I feeling hurt by deliberately misconstruing what you said. There seems to be only one RD and you called this RD “creepy” and I enquired if it was me. Did we interact before this? I would apologise to any deliberate misconstruction if you would be kind enough to point this out.
Anu Warrier: I do not consider you and a few others visiting my blog and reassuring me of your support (rather than tackle the tormenter head on) in any way cowardly. It was a wise decision and in light of what was happening at that time, a very sensible one. In retrospect, it seems different. But this is fine. ❤
Kid: I do know boys and girl are very different in this. But let us keep the rules gender-neutral. 🙂
BR: I seem to remember that I did not have upvotes / downvotes, and then people asked for it.
That would be me. I also adviced that Aditya Veera had it implemented and he could guide you. I am sorry about that. I was visiting IHM’s blog pretty regularly and that blog used to have a bit too many comments and I used to find reading just the heavily upvoted/downvoted ones saved my time. Eventually I realised that this blog and its atmosphere is very different. I understand your point to Ram Murali but the current request to remove it, if possible, comes as it has been too disruptive. Having a thicker skin would not help in a blizzard.
I was not going to ping you personally as I did not want to disturb you and I thought you were reading all the comments anyway and were being ok with whatever you approve. If I had known that you would appreciate me pointing these things out, I would have done that. This is just a small misunderstanding. If I feel something is worth being pointed out, I will do this. I promise to not be a whiny wimp about it, Ok? 😀
Dear All: Many of you have said such wonderful things about me and if anything I feel blessed to be here. A few people are not pleased with me. That is fine. Some have pointed out that I behave as if I own this place. These people may have to live with it as that part of me would not change. As mentioned before, I comment only on weekdays and you may not have Rahini’s presence to interest, to elevate and to amuse during a Saturday or a Sunday. But I would not keep away from this place for anything in this world. 😀
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The Ghost Who Walks
March 4, 2016
BR,
I have been following your blog since a year or two and have commented not more than a handful of times. But, I am totally disappointed with the devolution of the discussion over the past few weeks. I totally get how difficult it is to go thru and approve each comment. But now that we have a problem that is proving detrimental to the very spirit of discussions on this blog, We need to do something.
Can we please put some ground rules in place?
Is there a way we can have an option of reporting posts which people feel break those ground rules? (not sure if wordpress has such an option)
May be you can review only those posts and remove them if you feel the need?
I absolutely appreciate the fact that you can only devote so much time in reviewing each post, but may be this can help? You will have to look at only the reported posts and take a call. Considering that most readers on this blog have an impressive tolerance, I am sure this won’t be reduced to some sort of competitive reporting.
Rahini/Olemisstarana/Vanya/Ram Murli and all others who feel the need to stop commenting on this blog…
Pleeeeaase dont!.. ‘You come for the content, you stay for the comments’ can’t be more apt for any other forum on the internet. It will be a sad day in interweb-world if you guys stop participating. You guys have played a stellar role in building this blog, pl don’t drop the ball now.
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kichena
March 4, 2016
It feels like people who comment here too much (sorry to take names, but these two come to mind – Ram Murali, Rahini David etc.) are taking the whole blog down. I don’t deny they have something valuable to say. But such ilk come here with a heightened sense of verbosity that spoils the quality of cinema commentary happening through few other good souls. RM is eager to jump the gun and says too many irrelevant things. Ms David seems to have a sense of entitlement and polices around here. This is not your Facebook page. There is a defined focus here. If you can’t take comments in your stride or ignore them, grow up. In the course defending yourself, you waste precious space and bandwidth. Some comments hurt? Your problem, nobody cares.
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brangan
March 4, 2016
The Ghost Who Walks: Yes, please let me know if something is becoming a problem. Till I got a few emails, I just thought people were duking it out and taking care of the problem themselves. But now, at least wrt this commenter, I am being careful. So yes, it would help if people pointed these things out.
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Fff
March 4, 2016
Enna inga sandai, enna ingai sandai (kovai sarala style)
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DocByBirth
March 4, 2016
Dear BR,
I’m a silent spectator of this blog, content to read your wonderfully worded, wordplay filled reviews and skim through the comments, only to be bewildered by the extensive knowledge the commentators have on cinema. I’ve never commented because I never assumed I’d have something meaningful to add.
But this time, I have to speak up, having seen the ugly fights that have broken out in the comments.
I don’t want to take names here. I’m pretty sure the implied indivuduals know I’m referring to them anyway. What’s happened has happened, but I want to make a few suggestions that could help out with your current problem.
1 . Maybe a way for people to report comments for being inappropriate, lewd or simply stupud trolling?
This blog has such a high standard of reviews and the comments section really adds to the fun. It would be a tragedy to lose out on that.
Also, PLEASE NOTICE ME BR SENPAI.
That is all.
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sanjana
March 4, 2016
Now it is time that Apex and Rahini should bury the hatchet and make a new beginning. Both are intellectuals and both should see the larger good of the blog.
Long back I expressed my views about downvotes for innocent comments and now almost everyone is supporting it. How times change!
BR, you are in Dharam Sankat!
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sanjana
March 4, 2016
Do away with moderation and let comments appear immediately. Complete freedom!
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apex
March 4, 2016
This blog seems like hit by a cyclone recently. Not sure who that was, but lemme try to help
A few points folks
1) “And apex, would it kill you to consider the fact that you may have offended people and apologise? I’m not going to force you to.”
@ BR–since it’s your blog and YOU that’s coming under attack, there u go
ONLY FOR U BR (& since Punee requested me to on the other thread…)
To whom it may concern esp Rahini
I apologise if u were offended but it wasn’t intentional and not meant to be taken the way u took it.
Happy?
2) Now on a related note, is it v difficult to check the ip of people who are suspiciously posting with different monikers. I know it’s not your job and takes real effort and a thankless job. But from time to time, it’s a worthwhile exercise
It’s SHOCKING how some people who are SO worried about the quality of discourse going down, seem to have no problems
When some obvious sockpuppetry or meat puppetry is going on
I will argue that this sort of IMPOSTER-like behaviour defeats the elements of blogging and introduces a FRAUD element that can’t be shaken off
Some of the holier than thou people asked me “What proof do u have x y z is posting with multiple names?”
Well, how can I give the proof unless I handle the blog
Though I MODERATING A BLOG WILL BE THE BIGGEST FUN 🙂
Man, I can’t imagine the shape and nature of that blog hahaha
3) issue of people PILING ON
what do we do of people we have NEVER Interacted with And who seem to jump in and attack u and ur interactions with others
For eg anu
Till date, I have had not one interaction (or unpleasant one) with her ever. However she seeks to be more aggressive combative and even hostile. I’ve ignored her but she carries on
Ok she maybe doing her bit as an online citizen but she can do that on her own blog? Have I commented on her blog?
Peace out..
4) those who seem to be v upset. Well, atleast I don’t intend to interact with them in future (hope they mind their own business IF I do comment)
5) finally BR, all those “threatening” to leave the blog. U and even me can request them not to. But it’s a free world. And mind u , can vouch that most won’t leave anyways…jus watch 🙂
Also BR, u r an even better moderator than writer which is a v difficult feat given the standard of your writing skills,….
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apex
March 4, 2016
“Now it is time that Apex and Rahini should bury the hatchet and make a new beginning. Both are intellectuals”
Haha
This “new beginning” bit SCARED ME though
“Both are intellectuals”
Rahini is in AUGUST company lol
Well. The problem is that only a FRACTION of my “OEUVRE & RANGE ” has been on display yet
Haven’t touched other GENRES oops
I think upvotes & downvotes should stay
“Do away with moderation and let comments appear immediately. Complete freedom!”
Agree with sanjana there…
Btw the thoughts of some blog MODERATED BY ME and the images that conjured psyched even myself, need a break,….
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Rahini David
March 4, 2016
Apex: I apologise if u were offended but it wasn’t intentional. Thanks for the apology. I can see that.
Sanjana: Hatchet buried. Thanks.
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P
March 4, 2016
@Apex: Good on you for apologizing. Now we hopefully can bury this topic once and forever.
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Shalini
March 4, 2016
“Believe me, I am not being insensitive to the “woman card” issue you bring up. I just thought you guys were duking it out with apex and giving it right back in style.”
@BR, Don’t wish to exhume the horse, but there is a critical nuance here that I think you’re missing. The statement that I identified the most with is this one by olemisstarana – “But when my name is mentioned over and over again, that’s when I start to get uncomfortable.” I don’t want to “duke” it out with apex everytime my name slithers out of his keyboard. That would involve my acknowledging his existence and I prefer to render him invisible. The thing is – I shouldn’t have to fend off sexual harassment on your blog. Do you really want that to be part-n-parcel of this blog’s experience for women?
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Shankar
March 4, 2016
Baddy, the sadness is for the folks who are being forced to leave for a number of reasons. You are and will continue to be a writer par excellence, but this space doesn’t seem inviting anymore. There is level of “clubbiness” that’s developed among commenters, for good or bad, that’s very dispiriting to me. I still read you all the time. I just don’t participate (and you don’t know how tough that can be). I’ll take this offline with you.
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Anon1
March 4, 2016
Rahini: Good on you for accepting that apology. I am not sure what to call it, but apology it was not. It was such a masterful non-apology that if I believed that Apex was capable of any form of remote human intelligence, I’d say it was intentional.
“ONLY FOR U BR (& since Punee requested me to on the other thread…)
To whom it may concern esp Rahini
I apologise if u were offended but it wasn’t intentional and not meant to be taken the way u took it.
Happy??
It isn’t directly addressed to you. 2. “If u were offended” – i.e. the onus is on you and how you manage your feelings, not on the word vomit here. 3. “It wasn’t intentional” – yeah right. Also, you want to buy some real estate on the moon? 4. “Not meant to be taken the way u took it.” In other words, this is YOUR fault. YOU YOU are wrong, my innocent words were twisted and misconstrued. But look how amazing I am – I am the bigger person, I am apologizing. (never mind the ONLY FOR U BR & Punee preface, never mind THAT at all). 5. “Happy?” In other words, I dusted off a bowl, shat in it and put it at your doorstep with a label APOLOGY. So now all is good, yeah?
Even if all that is discounted, here we go again
“2) Now on a related note, is it v difficult to check the ip of people who are suspiciously posting with different monikers. I know it’s not your job and takes real effort and a thankless job. But from time to time, it’s a worthwhile exercise
It’s SHOCKING how some people who are SO worried about the quality of discourse going down, seem to have no problems
When some obvious sockpuppetry or meat puppetry is going on
I will argue that this sort of IMPOSTER-like behaviour defeats the elements of blogging and introduces a FRAUD element that can’t be shaken off
Some of the holier than thou people asked me “What proof do u have x y z is posting with multiple names?”
Well, how can I give the proof unless I handle the blog
Though I MODERATING A BLOG WILL BE THE BIGGEST FUN 🙂
Man, I can’t imagine the shape and nature of that blog hahaha”
Yeah if this is an apology, then you can call me Rahini… OOOPS the Grand Duchess of Timbuktoo.
This guy is a layer cake of garbage. #sorrynotsorry
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ThouShaltNot
March 4, 2016
There is a river in Chennai called the “Cooum”. People took the approach to it that you currently recommend here. And yes, it is possible to take a boat ride on it wearing a face mask and partial blinders and navigate around its dross. It is certainly an option.
If you even care to understand the reason for this blog post or the tumultuous proceedings behind it, you may start with what @olemisstarana has articulated above or what the other “belligerent group-thinkers” at the receiving end of unsolicited attention have voiced on this issue.
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Ram Murali
March 4, 2016
BR & others – As much as I hate to sound dramatic, I guess it’s a little overwhelming and unavoidable for me now. I am quitting this blog for good. I am done with all the negativity, nastiness and lack of (what I deem to be) enough respect for people that we don’t even know personally. (The good old spidey line, “With great power comes great responsibility” clearly doesn’t apply to the internet, I guess.) I always have believed that we must be extra careful (not extra flippant) when writing things to people that we don’t know personally. It’s fine if I sound outdated in the internet age. I am quitting this blog with the knowledge and satisfaction that while I may have annoyed people I don’t think I have written anything hurtful. As BR mentioned in his comment (to me) above, being thick skinned is not one of my qualities. And, I can’t and don’t want to take this anymore. BR – I am sorry but your latest comment to me (with terms like “incessant obsession” when I was not even talking about myself in the first place), when I placed it alongside your (what I perceived to be) general lack of support when people pass unsavory remarks (like my favorite “joker” comment that was directed to me), have made me commit to this comment being my last one on this blog. I will continue to read your write-ups on “The Hindu” for you are a writer who I truly admire and tremendously respect.
Kichena – “It feels like people who comment here too much (sorry to take names, but these two come to mind – Ram Murali, Rahini David etc.) are taking the whole blog down. I don’t deny they have something valuable to say. But such ilk come here with a heightened sense of verbosity that spoils the quality of cinema commentary happening through few other good souls. RM is eager to jump the gun and says too many irrelevant things.”
–> Thanks for your note. My objective was never to bring “the whole blog down.” As I have always maintained, it was to express points of view and learn from BR and the commenters. The internet is too huge a place that I don’t have to worry about finding things to write or read. Plus, I have unlimited space to express my “verbosity.” Adios.
Everyone: I have truly enjoyed reading your comments, learning from you and should you wish to keep in touch, you can write to me – rmurali@tepper.cmu.edu – or visit my blogspace.
Adios amigos and amigas.
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nishika
March 4, 2016
I accidentally landed up in your blog (for reading review about Amarakaviyam movie) and wow I love it. While I had not watched many movies, of late being a ‘vetti’ at home and thanks to my hubby, have become a big time movie buff. But I dont rush to theaters, rather a late bloomer. eg., now only watching Soothu kavvum 😦
anyways I love your blogs, the angle, critic, language everything. Not sure didnt read thro all comments, etc. that what made you to write this piece of blog. Dont you worry.. we know what the bad guys are doing and how to ignore them, so you carry on.
BTW I wanted to see if you will write about Bangalore natkal comparing with the original version 😀
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Rahini David
March 4, 2016
Anon1: I do know a non-apology when I see one. But we have all established our stances clearly and in so many words.
We have to move on. Some decided to do that by moving away. Some didn’t want to. Let us go back to movies. I don’t want to be a polyanna seeing the good in all this. But we will all survive. I am sure about that.
Cheers. 🙂
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AnonX
March 4, 2016
Not attempting to open yet another can of worms here, but I would like to write down a (uncalled for) third person perspective considering I am a regular reader here, written here a few times (but going anon for this) and do not know anyone here personally online or offline:
1) Enough has been ‘said’ about Apex. I have nothing new to add except that he has successfully spoiled it for each one of us here. Bravo !
2) That being said, I did find it quite amusing that off late in the comments sections of some of the articles written here in the past few months, there was shown an unprecedented and uncalled for aggression in criticizing views of a person here who went by the name Punee.
Those views could have been utterly weird , but in my view I absolutely did not find anything offensive in those that could possible attract such strong and aggressive critique (with responses sometimes bordering tones of mockery).
3) I have seen quite sometimes, the discussions entirely derailed from context bringing in personal stuff one way or the other. Some of these yes,fitted in the context and flavour of the discussions but the repercussions that arose from the impulse to share the individual stories as well, stuck out like a sore thumb and totally diluted the essence of what was being discussed upon.
And there were way more than one or two parties responsible for these.
Like BR, I would like to disclaim I am not perfect either, but I have just written what I have been observing so far in keeping up with the spirit of the ‘churn-out-thy-opinion’ mode that is blog is being in currently.
I love this blog. Even so, I love that my views are being read upon and being responded to as well one way or the other, in a most civilized way that I have seen only in very few forums out there. I will continue reading and posting my opinions here as long as BR writes here.
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P
March 4, 2016
@AnonX: Wow, thats an eye-opener. Regarding your point #2, did you really think there was aggression? I kept telling myself it was ok and that maybe I was getting too “senti” so to speak about it…..which is why I stayed away for almost a month…
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onewiththeh
March 4, 2016
At work once in a while, some of your favorite discussion groups/mailer alias degenerate into one moronic thread where an unsuspecting person posts an irrelevant email. This riles people up because they hadn’t signed up to the group to receive that email and thus ensue a series of “please unsubscribe me”, “please don’t reply-all” emails that hounds the Exchange servers and your Inboxes!
I don’t know if this is the right comparison but I sort of get that feeling here.
If something doesn’t work, instead of being on at it again and again, playing out responses back and forth, just pause for a moment, take a few steps back. Hey, this is the internet and that’s allowed! It’s not work where you have to report to play out your defense. I understand people are passionate enough to discuss cinema on this blog that makes them want to come back again and again. But sometimes just taking a break helps!
In the work scenario, you’d just setup Inbox filters until you actually forget that group did exist because there are so many other things that can still keep you occupied. I visit the group later whenever I feel like it. Did I miss reading a few emails that I might have enjoyed or found useful? Of course! But there are bigger things I gained by not getting distracted.
This is a great blog that I’ve been following for close to 8 years now. I love the discussion threads in many of the posts. But I do take a break sometimes when things unrelated or unnecessary are posted. Some discussions even bore me! That way when I get back after a break, I still find new things/people’s opinions to read.
Anyway, I stop here. My 2 cents!
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Dftt
March 4, 2016
I don’t get it; all the conversations for the recent reviews were pretty tame, what’s going on?
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apex
March 4, 2016
Haven’t been able to read these barrage of comments yet, But some good thoughts by BR, sanjana, rahini and Punee
Noticed this flurry of ANONS
of all shape and forms
Anon1,
Anon
Anonx
Anonxxxxx
Etc etc
As for me–IF I comment
It will only be in one moniker
The INfamous
apex
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apex
March 5, 2016
Ok something unrelated –Jus happened to come across this video again in my video list. Unsure where to post and pardon the REPEAT posting
This is called “stuffing all the rajnikants, man-mootys and mohunlals in a gunny bag and kicking their collective asses” (sorry to their fans –this is my patented quip!) and loved the bit wherein a scavenger tries to bite him and the one wherein he has a free fall from 1:10 onwards I think
And LOVED the background CRESCENDO music
Fittingly this film remained incomplete …
The very APEX of Cinematic talent ..
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apala
March 5, 2016
Folks,
I am not sure why we are all having so thinner skins nowadays… too much political correctness killed the joy in our life I think! If someone agrees with you good; if someone disagrees with you – wonderful! But someone hits below the belt, well, Fantastic! Just let’s strengthen that “part” and jump right back in!
Sorry to sound so clichéd but it seems perfect for this time: Peace in life does not arise from the absence of conflicts, but from the ability to cope with it. தண்ணீரை விலக்கி பாலை மட்டும் அருந்தும் அன்னம் போல், கெட்டதை களைந்து நல்லதை எடுத்து நம் வழி நடப்போமே!
Peace!
P.S.1: No matter what, never leaving this blog – even if BR-sir kicks me out of it!
P.S.2: http://simplereminders.com/20140727024012.html
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vijay
March 5, 2016
I may be a bit old-school here but never cared much for these up/down votes business. Is this a mutation of the Facebook likes/dislikes obsessive social networking disorder? I am afraid that with all the discussion being centered on this I too may start glancing down at these things a lot more. It is fascinating that the cyberites care a lot about what a stranger thinks of their comments. George Carlin would have had a field day with this phenomenon.
No wonder trolls feed off of this.
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VS
March 5, 2016
@ BR , My 2 cents , on some threads the comments just go on and on to the point of having no correlation to original post. These are the threads which eventually turn ugly. If you feel a thread taking that path, , one option would be to close comments on that thread… !
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anttales
March 5, 2016
Ok. I have been up half the night trying to browse through the older posts and grasping what led to this post.
Just wanted to post a comment before dozing off requesting Anu, Tonks, Ole and Ram to not quit the blog. I really really love reading your comments. I admire your passion for movies and your extensive knowledge. And did I mention I love reading your comments? 🙂
Rahini, you are an inspiration. You have handled the entire situation wonderfully..
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anttales
March 5, 2016
And Apex, you should be ashamed of yourself. You just managed to offend most of the women who follow this blog. There is nothing more I want to add to the topic.
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kichena
March 5, 2016
All these people wanting to quit this blog – hilarious. Reminds me of that Gounder comedy, where a beggar walks out disagreeing with something Gounder said. Go watch it!
No matter how bad the comments section becomes, BR’s writings are still worth its weight in gold. And all you people quitting, get a life and learn to see the forrest for the woods.
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The Ghost Who Walks
March 5, 2016
@Apex,
You picked that Marudanayagam trailer just so that you can end with that sentence didn’t you?
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venkatesh
March 5, 2016
Am i the only one here who doesn’t know what the actual issue is?
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Priyangu
March 5, 2016
BR’s blog space is a sort of (constructive) Sirenum scopuli. “losing readers” might just be a temporary phenomenon.
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MANK
March 5, 2016
Brangan, what the hell happened here man. i left a healthy blog behind almost a week ago.now i return to find it in shambles. As it happens , i am having quite a tumultuous and chaotic personal\professional life of late – which has been taking up a lot of my time – and haven’t been able to visit the blog as much as i want to. i was dying to have some free time to come here and find some comfort from chaos – read the posts that i missed and post a comment or two- and shockingly i find the blog as much chaotic as my life at the moment.
it has been some time since i found you in such a confessional ,introspective, defensive. helpless (the words fail me, you fill in the appropriate term) mood.i believe the last time this happened was after the bashing you got for raking up the caste of characters in OK Kanmani. i think you wrote a post immediately succeeding it explaining what you meant and all that.
now i don’t know what,when and how the latest crisis was precipitated.right now i neither have the time nor the inclination to go digging around to find out, may be in due time. i just want to make some responses strictly to your post and some of the comments here . I promise to refrain from taking any names or calling names throughout
Reg:People who are leaving the blog or intending to do so : it is very unfortunate and the blog does loose something when people leave , but in the end i agree with you , you accept it as part of life. people come and people move on, may be i will do too – hopefully not in the near future , of course you can’t predict these things.- but it is better to move on if you are feeling lousy and uncomfortable on the blog
*Reg:Accusations of sock puppetry, dominating behavior, favoritism, entitlement,name calling etc etc * : i realise that there is precious little you can do about it.People are bound to feel slighted, abandoned aggressive and so on. I do myself many times. these are things that are to be dealt by the commenters themselves and i see and feel that many of them have tackled it admirably
*Reg:Accusations of sexual Harassment: * , now this is the most serious of all allegations that i have found here. we have had trolls,problems, fights et all over the years, but if my memory serves right , this is the first time the blog has been confronted by it.Now i see you admit to some slip ups and promised tighter controls in future. . And here too i sympathize with you, i can understand the situation you are in, however watertight your moderation skills are , some are bound to slip through cracks. it is the nature of the internet beast. it also explains what an insulated , idyllic place our blog has been when you look at the state of rest of the web.
And finally *Reg:The much discussed downvotes: * i have said it before and say it now, i care 2 hoots for them. i don’t evaluate my commentary skills based on them, nor do i evaluate anybody elses. Frankly, the best comments that i have written here imo – which have led to some healthy discussions and drawn some great thoughts and analysis from yourself – are the ones that didnt get any votes.same goes for others too. i have admired many comments which i have seen heavily downvoted. if i disagree or want to add with any comment , i usually come out and type it out – which explains why i am the batch topper here year after year in the subject of comments 🙂 – i think that is what leads to a good discussion rather than random downvoting. so as far as i am concerned , the vote buttons can stay or they can go, i dont care.
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brangan
March 5, 2016
Slightly ironic that the upvotes /downvotes thing began with Rahini and is ending because of Rahini 🙂 Can anyone tell me how to disable the damn thing? Am not sure how I found it in the first place. Thanks.
And MANK:
“shockingly i find the blog as much chaotic as my life at the moment.”
Ditto 🙂
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udhaysankar
March 5, 2016
Have been following this blog for the last four years. Earlier, there used to be a lot of friendly(I think so) banter that were enjoyable and informative, but never got serious on a personal level, as the commenters then were adept in giving out funny comebacks that never insulted anyone(except for that rare instance when gvm misunderstood a series of comments) . But these days with increased emotional baggage being brought out in the blog, it is tough to maintain a friendly banter with disagreements without hurting the other one. And I looked those banters a lot and miss those days.
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udhaysankar
March 5, 2016
*liked. Especially the one between rameshram and kaykay in an article about rahman(if I remember correctly) is the perfect example of two views that are contradictory, and though they did make nasty, funny comments, none of it was insulting for someone to leave the blog.
Ram Murali, you should come back to these blogs as I always valued your views. You were the one who made me realize that some films work for us irrespective of its technical aspects, in this case rhythm. You should come back.
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bart
March 6, 2016
Enna boss nadakkudhu inga.. Naduvula konjam pakkatha kaanom. WWII mudinju Gandhi setha maadhiri.. Sambandhame illa.
Dropped in email to Ram.
I feel like that sardarji, “Yaaruyya avaru, enakke avara paakanum pola irukke” (from that templemonkeys parody on Abbas et al.), on many of the commenters 🙂
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apex
March 6, 2016
“Slightly ironic that the upvotes /downvotes thing began with Rahini and is ending because of Rahini “
Agree BR: not only “ironic” but “unfair” – NOthing against this particular commenter (now) but the fact remains that jus bcos it’s not suiting a select few it’s NOT fair to force u to disable up or downvotes now.
As an example, there were numerous comments by Punee having nothing “objectionable” (difference of opinion is different) that were being disproportionately downvoted. 10+ downvotes. If it was ok then it’s surely ok now! Moral — plz don’t feel FORCED OR OBLIGED to turn down or upvotes off
They also provide an avenue for lurkers and those who can’t have time or don’t wanna post a negative comment to register their view. And increases the INTERACTIVE experience. & is surely a VALUE ADDITION to the blogging. experience – Anyhow some “don’t care a damn about up or downvotes” so why this anxiety now?
Finally – It’s INCOMPLETE & unfair that those anon, anon1, anon xxx etc have gone totally UNACCOUNTED for To return at will, create a mess and disappear when the heat is on. We all know approximately who they are but don’t wanna me do it without “proof” – I can understand that u don’t wanna “name or shame” some people since they are regulars, “respectable” & u r a good guy but ATLEAST POST THIS COMMENT so it’s fair to convey that special provisions were/are being made for a select few
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bart
March 6, 2016
Few points relevant to all of us here ..
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brangan
March 6, 2016
apex: The removal of voting isn’t just because a few people asked for it. This is still my blog, and if I feel I want to do something, I will do it. (Ask frustrated readers about the number of times they’ve woken up to a brand new template that they hate 🙂 )
But the voting thing – I just did not see it as useful.
My logic is this. Anyone is free to say whatever they want, in whatever tone they want. I mean, if people are going to argue or disagree, then it cannot and will not always be done civilly.
But I think people should still put their name out there — even if it’s an alias. So we have a handle to link the comment to. This anonymous voting really creeps me out because — theoretically speaking — it could be the same mischief-maker using a dozen different computers and voting.
You could ask: Couldn’t the same thing be done using an alias, too? Can’t the same commenter use different aliases and post versions of his agreement or disagreement? Yes, but in that case, I’ll be able to look at the IP address and have a general idea. Plus, it’s also much more of a bother for the mischief-maker to do that.
It helped that the voting thing was not my idea. People brought it up. After a bit of convincing, I said “Why not?” and ran with it. But I was never comfortable with it and some people were paying a disproportionate amount of interest in it — it just wasn’t contributing to anything.
Maybe it’s useful in other sites. I just didn’t see why this blog needed it.
I must say I’m glad to see it go.
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Madan
March 6, 2016
My two cents. The best forums I have been a part of or browsed – in terms of quality of discussion and not no. of posts/no. of likes, etc – auto-censored cuss words and enforced rules to cut short ad-hominem fests or other such arguments that get personal and derail the topic. These cover the gamut – one is a music forum, one is a tennis forum and the last one an automobile forum. Absolute freedom does not work so well on the internet because there are unsaid social cues we observe in face to face interactions which we tend to discard on the net. Sexual harassment is an absolute no-no.
You could either moderate the comments or simply allow all to be posted with the caveat that posts that violate a given set of rules (which is up to you to define) will be deleted and frequent offenders blocked from commenting. I am sure you are not looking for number of eyeballs but for a ‘forum’ where different points of view can be presented and debated on the films you review or other articles (correct me if I presume too much!). In that case, it is important to maintain an environment that is conducive to such discussions. Which regrettably involves some amount of moderation/censorship. Would that that weren’t the case but people aren’t always above indulging in nonsense on the net.
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Anon1
March 6, 2016
Apex: We are going to miss your vote brigading around here. Also, please continue tying yourself into knots thinking that only one person dislikes you this much. This is your hubris that you can simply not imagine that this many people think that you are reprehensible. Carry on.
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apex
March 6, 2016
Thanx BR
The essential point is that it’s YOUR blog and jus bcos some feel entitled/obliged/over smart/manipulative/easily harassed, they should NOT start this game wherein whenever the my start “losing” they ask for change of rules (well those were not the exact words I wanted but am usually v lazy typing on my phone as usual & sometimes stuff can ‘skip’ out u know lol)
Some of Those we’re talking about know they’ve been caught out -and that’s why they asked for this voting switched off NOW -but let’s leave it maybe …. Others will remain UNNAMED since i don’t think everyone can take it being “named” for such stuff. Let’s (try2) forgive/get em…
And all this talk of “quality” and autocorrection to maintain decorum is bull crap. There are many such blog which become deserts (or r deteriorating in quality and quantity rapidly lol) soon bcos the blogowner started getting there ILLUSIONS lol (like I mentioned about Abhishek kapoor in d fitoor thread)
Do u want to be one of those DEAD BLOG(s) wherein a v few people occasionally comment on and the BLOG OWNER DIES OUT OF DELIGHT (& surprise) IF this happens 🙂
U WANT AUDIENCE
(Eye)BALLS
TRP 🙂
My suggestion to make life easier for is the DISCLAIMER route (My personal fave in life)
A CAREFULLY DRAFTED DISCLAIMER – “this is a (mostly) unmoderated forum. You are welcome to post but plz do not feel offended by race, sex, etc etc. If u do, that’s not the blog owners (or Apex’s–joking!) responsibility. you are welcome not to visit /post if u feel the discourse doesn’t meet your approval though we appreciate continuation of your readership… Or variant of this Disclaimer In BOLD FLASHING COLORS (like in condom machines etc, I think) just below the “post” button
U of course still have the option of jumping in with the button when u want But there WONT be a gun on your temple to moderate … Whatsay m8 🙂
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Sifter
March 6, 2016
@Anon1– You said “I am not sure what to call it, but apology it was not. It was such a masterful non-apology that if I believed that Apex was capable of any form of remote human intelligence, I’d say it was intentional.”
Sorry, but that ‘masterful’ and the rest of that particular sentence made me laugh; not at you though. Make no mistake it was intentional and not an original one at that. It was an insult that contained the word ‘apology,’ is all.
This particular commentator’s initial comment about the ‘soul’ on another thread made me go ‘wow,’ but soon enough went to ‘eww’ with the first few responses laced with innuendos and after that stayed with the ‘eww’s’ all the way.
@Rahini– I wanted to tell you this here because I don’t know where else I could.
I could/should have stood-up for you, with you when you were heckled and bullied with belligerence and impunity, but I didn’t. I remained silent. My apologies without any excuses for remaining a mute spectator. But from all this you have come across as a better, bigger, and brighter person for burying the hatchet and getting out of the muck. Bravo!
@BR- Removal of voting – Great! With the entire ruckus, I did notice too many up-voting/down-voting going on all of a sudden in this blog.
Though I very rarely watch movies for many years now because of all the ‘misogynistic’ crap they turn out to be (very few are exceptions, of course), I very much enjoy the reviews and the comments here. Even though I comment rarely on movies (not equipped compared to the rest here), I have found this the veritable source of varied information, great discussions with mature commentators. Sadly all that went to a tailspin during the last few days. I am happy and relieved that this train wreck has stopped.
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Iswarya
March 6, 2016
BR: I’ve heard something of people being given a long rope, etc. But I must say this: you give a rope longer than anyone has ever possibly extended to human or subhuman beings! I seriously admire your patience.
STANDING OVATION
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MANK
March 6, 2016
Well more talk of Irony, Ram Murali was the one who was the most sensitive about the downvoting. now when the downvotes are gone , he is gone.
I hope he comes back. i liked my interactions with him.
Shankar, sir where have you been . i wonder where all you regular people have gone. i used to love your comments around here and my interactions with you – especially about old tamil films and actors-. and please if you have a grouse\opinion, let us hear it out loud. if this is a churning process, then please be a part of it . if you think a small group is monopolizing the blog, then you have a right to say it, even if it involves me.
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another anon
March 6, 2016
BR Saar😁: Yes, but in that case, I’ll be able to look at the IP address and have a general idea. Plus, it’s also much more of a bother for the mischief-maker to do that.
Epic browser, Tor……… etc.
Heard of ’em? 😄
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sanjana
March 6, 2016
A big thank you for removing that useless thing which was used to create disharmony.
We have to connect who is saying what. I think in Hindu, they publish names or aliases of who dislikes. These are times for internet trolls and internet paid trolls who can misuse even that provision. Let people use whatever uncivil language, one can atleast put a name and imaginary face to comments and stop reading them. Let them take the trouble of writing a few lines 90 times and let them end up with shoulder pain or whatever.
A few gems are worth more than a sackful of stones.
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sanjana
March 6, 2016
What Trps brought on Indian television is very well known. We have ended up with the most regressive tv soaps with uniform plots and sets.
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Iswarya
March 6, 2016
Amen to everything MANK said just now. If this “clubbiness” is a bad thing, it has the potential (in the long run) to become what Chris Rock just called “sorority racist.” I hope that kind of passive silencing never happens here, when we seem to be expressing our opinions, even somewhat aggressively, in favour of diversity elsewhere! How ironic would that be!
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apex
March 6, 2016
@ Ram murali
In this sea of people ACTING ultra decent And giving out certificates to new commenters like kid etc, Here’s apex’s certificate
U are one of the most decent humans I’ve met
And when even you were forced to leave by their antics it says volumes (I’m obviously of different metal)
It’s your decision to post or not That’s a small thing but u r a great person
Stay happy
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AnonX
March 6, 2016
“Finally – It’s INCOMPLETE & unfair that those anon, anon1, anon xxx etc have gone totally UNACCOUNTED for To return at will, create a mess and disappear when the heat is on.”
@Apex – ‘We’ did not exactly create this mess, if this is still not quite obvious to you, then it’s unfortunate you are in this stubborn self-denial even after all the ‘call-outs’.
In this case, BR knows my identity and that is enough for me. Considering the nature of comments I make here, I don’t think it is exactly ‘disruptive’ that I am going Anon here. . I provided my usual email-id to enter the comment, but just changed the name.
@Punee/@P : A resounding yes on the aggression. I would also like to add I have also disagreed with your views on my comments here.
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P
March 6, 2016
@AnonX: In a way I am glad the downvote buttons are gone, because even my reply to you up here ^ had like so many downvotes, I was absolutely weirded out, I was asking/confirming something – why would that get downvotes…
You maybe right, maybe I gave too much of a benefit of the doubt to people…. And of course, I am sure whatever disagreements you had with me and my “weird” views were quite enjoyable considering the civil tone you seem to have 🙂
Thanks for writing me… It cleared some doubts I had…toward my self more than anything, I was starting to be hesitant about my own blogging, now I can get back to writing like a dervish 🙂
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Priyangu
March 6, 2016
@venkatesh, count me in. I too don’t know the exact issue. But sad that Ram Murali has signed off. Happy that Rahini is still in. Don’t know who else is out. Hope everything is back to normal, like good old times. I thought this was one blog site that attracted some real good literates.
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sanjana
March 6, 2016
Ram Murali. Yes, we miss him. Only when a person is absent we feel. We take everything for granted.
When there are so many voices, hope it will be heard.
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Yet Another Anon
March 6, 2016
@apala In today’s world everyone says they’re modern but are offended at the drop of the hat more than a very very traditional person who lifts a sickle because someone said something about their caste.
And to all those if-this-was-ammarica-youd-be-fired tropes, the US is exactly fighting against this political correctness. Google about US college campuses, safe spaces, SJWs and being triggered.
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Anon1
March 6, 2016
Yet Another Anon: You MRA?
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Shalini
March 6, 2016
“BR: I’ve heard something of people being given a long rope, etc. But I must say this: you give a rope longer than anyone has ever possibly extended to human or subhuman beings! I seriously admire your patience.
STANDING OVATION”
Someone up-thread alluded to this, but y’all do know that BR had his very own house heckler (or two) as well as an um, “ultra-ardent” reader, right? He was drenched with invective from one side and amorous sunshine from the other daily for years. YEARS. Did I mention years? Before he finally shut them down…or not.
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Madan
March 6, 2016
Agree that there’s a backlash against SJWs in America and rightly so to some extent but I’d assume liberals and conservatives alike would find lewd comments directed at women distasteful.
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venkatesh
March 6, 2016
As one of the “oldest” regulars of this blog here are some thoughts.
When i first came across this place on the internet it had the feel of a quaint, slightly musty, intellectually rigorous book store. There has always been flirting, repartee, innuendos, jokes, off-topic discussions and everything you would associate with a community however there was a sense of an intellectual discussion taking place. Think of a virtual gathering of slightly introverted professors.
In the last few months this has changed to a very different place (and not just in the offending thread in question).
Its nature has changed from a musty bookstore that no one knows how it pays its rent to something of a cross between a Govt. canteen and your local autorickshaw stand, the backbiting, the sock-puppetry, the digressions, the name-calling, the lack of respect for fellow commenters are all symptoms.
The root cause is the influx of new users who do not have a sense of ownership towards the place. Over a period of 8+ or so years i have seen users come and go however even the worst trolls had decorum about them. Commenters felt it beneath themselves to engage in trolling that did not have at least some heft to it. We still had trolls, mind you, they were just of a much higher class and with some wit about them.
We have had heated discussions on a wide variety of topics that never resorted to anything as bilious as what we have witnessed. I feel sad about the changing nature of this blog and it irks me that someone who is as good as BR is to his readers has to make this plea to reason.
We are better than this.
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KayKay
March 7, 2016
Holy Smokes! Talk about leaving a well-ordered house only to return to smashed windows, overturned furniture and the door hanging off it’s hinges.
So basically, us kids got so rowdy this time, the Grown Up had to come out and tell us to shut the fuck up and sort our shit out.
venkatesh: Nope, you’re not the only one who’s not sure of what the issue is, but if I were to hazard an educated guess from skimming the long comments thread in the “Bajirao Mastani” and ” Not a Black & White Issue” posts, I’d venture that into the pristine oasis of well-argued, well-reasoned and cogent debates, this apox fella barged in, stomped all over the place, and left a muddy trail of sleaze and sexual innuendo buried inside a morass of disjointed statements and rambling prose . Which rightfully pissed off Rahini, olemisstarana and Anu.
apox: You must be new around these parts, so I’m gonna give you 2 bits of friendly advice.
3 words: GRAMMAR. PUNCTUATION. SPACING. Make friends with them
Don’t be an asshole
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Madan
March 7, 2016
The root cause is the influx of new users who do not have a sense of ownership towards the place
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venkatesh
March 7, 2016
@Madan: I do not want to de-generate this thread to a long you said, she said , I said type of discussion and so will not go into detailed reasoning or justifications, Everyone has taken their positions and there is no point in anyone attempting to change it.
I will however just say that there have always been a large number of readers who are NRI’s in these parts. I have lived a majority of my life outside India with a large part spent on the East Coast, that’s no excuse to behave appallingly.
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Madan
March 7, 2016
venkatesh: It is not that it was outright appalling, but that they were at times applying standards that are not practiced here and expressing outrage that may be proportionate over there but not here. I do have my views about the myriad contradictions and hypocrisies of India when it comes to race but be that as it may, our norm is different and I think people need to be mindful of that. That thread is not the only instance of it and I don’t want to turn this into a laundry list of such instances. All I am saying is, you know, it’s ok if somebody in INDIA doesn’t get what’s the deal about Oscars diversity. I do but that’s because I am an avid consumer of American cultural products, esp its films and TV series. You can’t expect everybody to be on the same page and you can’t also expect that such people should not comment on topics they don’t know much about because this is the internet and they are going to.
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sanjana
March 7, 2016
Newcomers rejunevate the blog. Otherwise blog remains static and dull catering to the few entrenched.
As for Grammar and punctuation, there is no edit option for the readers to correct their mistakes. In the heat of the moment some of us forget these things as we learnt English language the hard way. It is better to commit these mistakes than becoming a snob and look down upon those who cant write perfect english. While we look at those who speak and write atrocious hindi and vernacular languages with indulgence. When I tried to write complicated sentences, my teacher told me to use simple language if I want to reach the largest readership. Critic Rajsen is mocked for his language and style.
Some have their own style which is their trademark. It is not that they cannot write straight sentences.
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Rahini David
March 7, 2016
Sanjana: The people here are not objecting to new warm blood or basic grammar problems. My grammar or spelling is not impeccable and gives both Iswarya and AnuW the jitters. I have promised to work on it and use MS Word rather than notepad to do my typing. Nobody here looked down on my lack for stylish vocablary ever.
But it is wrong to use these wrong spellings so that you can get crap past the radar. BR has admitted somewhere that most of this has happened as the obvious 4-letter diss words are absent in Apex’s writing
and that he is not looking for much more than that when he is censoring. Sudden use of double quotes can be used to alter the meaning of words. To use this ambiguity to harrass every woman around, that is just plain wrong as Eddiered pointed out.
AnonX: The tone used to address Punee should have been better in the B&W thread. I agree with that. But that is not the reason why all this happened. That tone was like dry hay. A spark came in and charred the whole thing down. Olemisstarana, Punee and Anu who were discussing their beliefs about racism were having opposing beliefs and Punee was feeling singled out. This much is true. But they did not cross the line. Punee wanted a small break to get herself together, but that is how she prefered to deal with it. Every one has their own way to deal with it. But they were not that bad. That is my opinion about this.
venkatesh and KayKay: This is where shit hit the ceiling. Hope that throws some light. You might want to give special importance to those comments by Eddiered. Remarkable dude. 🙂
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Madan
March 7, 2016
Thanks Rahini. That makes things clearer. Never would have imagined that such an innocuous thread like ‘Vacation Notes’ would have gone mad. At risk of inviting further snarky comments written in 4chan lingo, I want to ask you, BRangan, again, just why is apex still being allowed to post? I get that you draw the line at a different place in support of freedom and all that but it seems to me that you are drawing it at a place that would make all the female participants uncomfortable. And this is clearly not me saying so; they seem to have taken this up several times already. And I also beg to differ with apex; no, places that shut out malicious trolls like him don’t become online deserts and the three forums I cited – namely, progarchives, talk tennis and teambhp, are not deserts by any means. So I sincerely don’t think somebody like apex is a major loss to any internet forum and it is precisely characters like him that drive interested participants away.
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Madan
March 7, 2016
Just to be clear, I am not saying YOU would reply with 4chan lingo comments. The one who does shall remain unnamed.
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P
March 7, 2016
@Rahini: I just want to correct you- no I did not feel “singled” out, I really couldn’t care less if a 1000 people were in opposition to me- that just invigorates me, but there was a tone of sarcasm- and i honestly don’t “get” that kind of sarcasm in a debate that was supposed to be serious, I am quite amazed you think they did not cross a line- when I was asked things like- “What color are you?” etc- questions that if asked in the US would create an uproar worthy of an SJW trigger-fest 🙂
And while everyone all over the world accepts that casteism and raceism can be considered as parallel worlds run by collectivists and one can give an example from the former to explain what one alludes to in the latter or vice versa (Ambedkar himself did this to bring in the reservation system in India- its completely influenced by his time at Columbia Uni where he saw affirmative action in well, action)- what dispirited me was the comments saying I had no right to do so. But you see this is not just an intellectual topic for me- its something I have experienced as a child and as an adult and my opinion was not forged under the eyes of some teacher or by reading books or by discussions- it was forged live everytime someone asked me “Oh, so you must have got a reservation seat?” and expressed wonderment when I said, “No” or when my neighbour used to turn away from my 9 year old face every morning as he did his surya puja in the small town of Mysore- I later found out it was because he considered me “impure” (and not just on the days I had my period, which is what most girls experience, but all the time, I was impure by the very accident of my birth), when I say that race and caste are man-made constructs- I truly believe it because I have experienced it….and I realized that I couldn’t be part of a discussion like this because of the reality of my life.
I apologize for bringing up that topic again, but you see- in this country or others, those on the lower totems via poverty or racism or casteism are told that we shouldn’t even have opinions that run contrary to the majority, because of course they are wrong- and that is what I felt on that thread, even though I am sure nobody else meant it, but it shook me a little- do I have the right to be a liberterian(economic conservative and socially liberal) without being called an Indian Uncle Tom- YKWIM? I started questioning myself, and if AnonX had not pointed out what he did here, I would continue doubting myself…
And now I feel like putting up a SLB like disclaimer for every comment- I don’t mean to offend anyone, I have no intention of “crying and then being rescued” (As Anu so succinctly put it), I am just putting my thoughts out there 🙂
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sanjana
March 7, 2016
Rahini, I am not defending Apex here. I am defending myself. I am also not ok with that as I am a woman first and then a blogger. I am used to his style freom another blog and so I was rather bemused than shocked. We should ignore or just pass it by in the first instance itself. Once we start arguing, it will end in chaos and bitterness.
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P
March 7, 2016
@venkatesh: You were spot on in your characterizations here, “Think of a virtual gathering of slightly introverted professors.” – but anyone who has had a contrary opinion to a professor knows that there can be no one more vicious and vengeful than a professor with a grudge 🙂
Just saying! 🙂
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Rahini David
March 7, 2016
Punee: Well what can I say? There are a few things here and I hope to clear it as much as I can. Please do not take this wrong.
1) You very often say somethings like “Why so dramatic over a small thing” etc and depict a strong persona, someone who can take sarcasm in her stride. When sarcasm does strike, you turn out to be a much more vulnerable, soft person. This has happened in my own interactions with you too. This makes me all confused with where I am with you. Ram Murali has bluntly stated that he is a very soft person and these things do not agree with him. Some others give back with greater gusto. You make me feel so bewildered. Many men have told me that women are so unpredictable. I usually ask them to stop being so silly. But I can almost see how unpredictability can confuse a person now. Wow lady. 😀
2) Can casteism and raceism be conflated? I would. May be I don’t know better. Maybe I do. I understood that casteism is something important to you. That it means something to you that it does not mean to most others. But frankly, I disagree strongly with almost all your points in that thread. But let us let it go. We will discuss that after our relationship through this blog improves for the better. 😀
3) The two points that you raised now about surya pooja etc. We should discuss it sometime soon. These things need to come out. People should know. You are articulate, you are passionate and you have experiences that people here should know about. But not now. There will be time.
The person who regreted that this place is not as filmi as it should be and is now more about personal anecdotes: I am sorry. These anecdotes have improved this place. The ones about pregnancy, the ones about misogyny, the ones about casteism etc. They need to come out. If this is not about some obscure french movie then so be it. I rate Punee’s experiences with her tribal birth status a lot more important than any thing else here, ever. Well, I started my own blog for that express purpose. I will start using it properly soon.
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MANK
March 7, 2016
Rahini, that is some real weird sht that hit the fan :). thanks for the link and kudos for your resilience , temperament and the class you showed all throughout this issue. i was simply groping in the dark as to where to start digging. and like Madan. i amazed that a thread called vacation Notes would go mad like this. I never thought that anybody would drag this blog down to such a level So Apex decides that you are his chief tormentor and sock puppeteer all because you started liking comments that was calling him out. huh!. i was just going through NBAWI thread as that was referenced a lot here – and i was not active on that thread- but i think you and everybody else on that thread made a grave mistake by not calling him out at that very moment. I know postmortems are useless. but Every body , especially the women who had an issue with his comments went dead silent.if you had raised your voice there, i don’t think things would have become this worse. I believe the silence gave him confirmation of the righteousness of what he is doing and the impetus to continue with this tirade – to isolate you and continue patronize everybody else-. But going by his attitude since then i don’t know how much difference it would have made , but he would have got the point , Brangan would have got the point.
Having said that let me echo Madan here again and say that Punee was not treated reasonably on that thread. i can understand why she feels targeted.Its okay to aggressively argue your point . the question how much aggression is ‘aggressive enough’ is very subjective, but i do believe that there was an extreme undercurrent of sarcasm in the way she was addressed – a making fun of aspect to it , if you forgive me- . Personally i dont agree with much of what she says, neither there or on the Bajirao thread. but we had a very healthy debate on the BM thread. i was not intending to win that debate nor i wanted to shout her down. i was simply trying to understand her POV, which i did to a great extend. but there was a lot of shouting and putting down on NBAWI thread. may be the commenters intention was not that and much of what happened was said and done in the heat of the moment. but when i am reading all the comments together , that is the impression that i get.
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P
March 7, 2016
@Rahini: I would quote MANK here….
“Its okay to aggressively argue your point . the question how much aggression is ‘aggressive enough’ is very subjective, but i do believe that there was an extreme undercurrent of sarcasm in the way she was addressed – a making fun of aspect to it , if you forgive me- . ”
Neither olemisstarana nor Anu Warrier could be as aggressive and fight as strongly as MANK did with me on the Bajirao Mastani thread(which honestly is so much more important to me spiritually and intellectually than the black and white thread), he was amazing- like they say in Hindi- Takkar ka banda(dont know if that is translatable in English) but they got personal, they asked me what is my skin color, they said I have no right to talk about black people or their experiences because I am not one, they said that casteism is not remotely comparable to the experience of blacks- the strong undercurrent of sarcastic personal put downs is what made me stay away from the thread- and no, its not because I am not strong, its because the strongest people have chinks in their armour- and I have scabs of old wounds there that I didn’t want to open, because when they do- I become a feral animal (you know they bite you more when they are hurt!) and I would have said horrible things to both of them which I didn’t want to 🙂 To the extent that I never went back to that thread- to this day I have zero idea what happened after I left…
Yes, I am difficult to understand- its not easy being of conservative political thought when people expect you to default to leftist principles by sheer accident of birth(a new kind of racism/casteism no? 🙂 ) and choice of studies(Arts)- but people forget that Ambedkar was a Republican too 🙂 And people are complex- and cannot be easily slotted into one unidimensional box or another…If you are strong- it doesn’t mean you don’t bleed when you hurt, if you are soft it doesn’t mean you can’t have inner reserves of strength that can say “Enough is Enough” (like Ram did earlier in this thread)…
I look forward to getting to know you 🙂 Thanks for your comment….
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Madan
March 7, 2016
but you see- in this country or others, those on the lower totems via poverty or racism or casteism are told that we shouldn’t even have opinions that run contrary to the majority, because of course they are wrong- and that is what I felt on that thread, even though I am sure nobody else meant it, but it shook me a little- do I have the right to be a liberterian
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Rahini David
March 7, 2016
MANK: “but i think you and everybody else on that thread made a grave mistake by not calling him out at that very moment”
Very true. But there are a few reasons I did not want to.
1) Anon(a woman) used the word “C*nt” before these words started to come up and Aniruddha Chagall got a bit too emotional and again used words that fired him up. In a way I am glad they brought it up for that threw some real light on what kind of guy we were dealing with here. But I could not shout him down when the women had used those words. Men like him routinely use these things to up the sleaze quoitent. That is their loophole. But I was hoping that the menace would go away.
2) How do I know that BR does not know that ‘How can I serve you?’ and ‘How can I “serve” you?’ are different? I thought this guy knew his punctuation. 🙂 When we did bring it up, BR just said something about Fascism and I thought that was BR’s stance. But he was actually unaware how much sleaze he had missed due to his not being used to this lingo. Poor BR is growing old 😦
There is one more reason. But let us let it go.
Sanjana: We should ignore or just pass it by in the first instance itself. Once we start arguing, it will end in chaos and bitterness.
Nope. A few other women have voiced this thought. But the men like MANK and Eddiered are right in this. I hated that Mehar’s name was being used alone with words like threesome and she was not even a real participant here. I was going to let it go just to not pull Mehar’s name in all the time. But that is the equivalent of giving a seat to the woman in the local bus to not allow her be groped by the sleazebag. Everyday one girl or the other will be his victim. We really NEED to shout the man down, just protecting the individual woman would never do.
A woman came to my blog and said she and most women had stopped commenting in Satyamshot because of this. A few changed their display pics. Why hide? Why take up monikers that makes us unisex non-entitites. Hell’s foundations maybe quivering now. But we need to do this. Let us not make it a “all men + few very strong women” place. Peaceful dignified demure women need their place here. I am not letting this go until it is safe for everyone.
Punee: anyone who has had a contrary opinion to a professor knows that there can be no one more vicious and vengeful than a professor with a grudge Very true. The whole basketball team put together is no match to a real professor. 🙂
BR: You know, you gotta stop them at the beginning. Like they should have stopped Hitler at Munich, they should never let him get away with that, they was just asking for trouble. Nice Quote there BR. You know your GodFather. 🙂
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Madan
March 7, 2016
Yes, the women need to speak up. True. On the other hand, on a moderated blog, all it takes is not approving a lewd comment. I know you are very busy BR but you’ve got to find a way to manage this. I don’t know how and not for me to say unless asked but after a point, to say you were too busy and let it slip through won’t be enough. None of this is your fault but this is the problem once any internet haunt gets popular and attracts people and it has to be dealt with however painful that process may be.
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P
March 7, 2016
@Madan: Exact and perfect comparison. Sharad Joshi ji (may he rest in peace) is one of my great idols- I wrote a research paper on farmers suicides in Maharashtra a long time a go and him and P.Sainath (“Everybody Loves a Good Drought”) opened my eyes up on the situation and how socialism and its associated policies have been strangulating farmers even as they are trying to be free from money lenders and land lords…
Most people living in cities have no idea about these things though- its sad…maybe someday…
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P
March 7, 2016
@Rahini: I wasn’t really praising the professors- I hate 99% of the people who taught me at my Arts college, but whatever floats your boat 🙂
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sanjana
March 7, 2016
I try to think from blog owner’s point of view whether it is Satyam or BR. They may not encourage but they wont ban. I think they have their own reasons for this.
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2016
Punee: I have little to no issue with your interaction with Apex in threads prior to this one. I scrolled through the Bajirao thread and really did not mind the personal, flirtatious nature of much of the repartee because it’s easy to scroll over and ignore.
I do have a problem when you roll into town like the new sheriff and try to mediate the issue between Apex and all the other women bloggers by saying “I’ve never had an issue, here’s all the proof, please accept his apology etc.” I don’t at all expect you to abandon thread friendships, or castigate someone, None of my business, I say this 100% sincerely…but please – “Apex, good on you for apologizing. Now we can bury this topic once and forever.” Really? Did you read that apology? I think Anon1 somewhere here did a vivisection of that tripe.
This is a little keyhole into the larger issue that I find seems to keep re-surfacing in our interaction. You roll in, sheriff style, secure in the knowledge of your absolute correctness, and when you are challenged, brandish the “this is too personal” card.
I also have zilch to do with the meatpuppet/sockpuppet issue at all. Don’t know it, don’t understand it, it gives me the beginnings of a migraine headache and I am really exhausted that it got dragged on for so long.
It’s the B&W thread where things went to shit. I came in a third of the way through after seeing your interaction with AnuW. Right off the bat, yes, my tone and tenor was way pricklier than it should have been. But some of your notions were – forgive me – absurd. Particularly when you say that criticism is not valid because you aren’t the one making the movie. That blew my mind.
Before you say, “that’s not exactly what I said,” let me stop you there…All I did, was take exactly what you said to the logical extreme to show you the logical fallacies that you were nursing within your arguments.
When you make confident, all knowing, authoritative, PERSONAL statements about the experience of someone you are not, and I reply asking you what your basis for making such a statement is, the thread is bound to get personal.
——Again, let me repeat this for emphasis: you make statement that seemingly is couched in personal knowledge. I ask you to back it up. You say things got personal.——-
Could I have asked you the same question in a less shouty way, absolutely, yes. That’s something I plan on trying to fix.
In the three-four threads you have been active in, and particularly the B&W one, you seem to throw every peripheral piece of information, learned and otherwise, personal and otherwise, at the wall to see what sticks. I think you are a fount of interesting information… and if we were to meet in person, we might really enjoy a conversation, because in real life, it is so much easier to have back and forths like this, clarifying, refining points, and moving on. (That, or we would have had a Lucy Liu/Uma Thurman Kill Bill style katana standoff where the tops of one of our heads would have landed in the snow*)
But in a thread like this, it’s hard. For instance, when you speak about caste, I defer to you completely. I trust your experience, it is lived, I won’t question it. I may seek other voices, but yours is just as valuable. But again, please don’t conflate two issues that may have variables in common, much in the same way that parallel evolution exists. Even if you do, and I run with it, I felt that some of the things you said had such a lack of compassion that my hackles flew up.
(Here is my source of authority – I work in Pittsburgh with communities of color, with immigrants, asylees and refugees. I also work with two domestic violence shelters and my work has also taken me into reproductive rights. I still do not pretend to speak for someone else, and should be told if I seem to be doing so. I am not black myself, but I do read and try to keep myself educated and compassionate. There has been a huuuge backlash here lately against people who work in social justice, particularly online (which does not excuse my defensiveness, but might explain some of it)… but I really won’t go much more into that.)
And if you will take this in the best spirit – because I am taking a deep breath and trying to come at this completely unarmed – you don’t read responses to you, Punee. I genuinely felt (and again, this is my perception of our interaction) that you display selective deafness when you read responses to you, which leads to me getting shoutier and shoutier, and you feeling attacked. I have a sinking feeling that this might happen here, so please forgive me if I choose not to continue this conversation too much further.
Quickly, about the group think thing – are you sure you aren’t confusing disagreement with group think? I don’t think at all that people are quick to agree with me… in the Chris Rocked thread, Ishwarya very patiently and methodically pointed out things that I hadn’t considered, and I feel richer for it. We – you and I – have so many basic disagreements that ultimately we will butt heads if we converse (You, let me guess, libertarian, Ayn Rand… me bleeding heart, politically correct to a painful fault, holier than thou, can get really whiny about sj stuff).
I just wanted an opportunity to address the tone of my interaction with you and just didn’t seem to find an opening, till I read your last comment.
*I kid…
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MANK
March 7, 2016
Punee, i am glad to see you back here. we had a great debate on BM which i think we both enjoyed . and i wish you have similar experiences all throughout your stay here. But you see different people have different perspectives and outlooks and different modes of conveying the ideas. if you wont be offended (yeah that dreaded sentence again 🙂 ), i would like to say something plainly to you. i am hesitant, because i don’t want to incur any more Ram Murali kind of walkouts from here .but i am sure coming from me, you will take it in the right spirit or you can completely ignore this at your will . i think you are a great value addition to this blog . you are a really good writer. i wish i had half your eloquence and knowledge. the comparison you made about bharathnatyam and kathak and different language styles on another thread was nothing short of brilliant.i don’t have any problem with whom you choose to side with or communicate with on this blog, that is completely your prerogative. but i have a problem with your attitude wrt yourself here .I don’t think you need to go around asking confirmation of your worth.or about the fact that whether others are mistreating you, are they being too aggressive to you, am i too sentimental etc etc….ultimately all this boils down to you. as i said in the earlier post , it is purely subjective. it is only as good or bad as how you make it out to be.you are strongly opinionated and you have the courage of your convictions to say them out loud and i respect you for that.. but when similair strong opinions are thrown back at you , you find it hard to take it .you do go in to a shell and develop a persecution complex enough to disturb your real life (by your own account ). i have noticed it repeatedly and i am always baffled by this . my be a lot of sarcasm and personal remarks came your way and you did the right thing by cutting yourself out of that thread. but Brangan’s advice to Ram murali in this context is very relevant, it is too bad that he was very hurt by it. but it very much apply to you too. just have the same resilience to take it as you give it.
I know that you are very emotional and may bee too impulsive. perhaps you may call me a cynic and cold for saying this. but i don’t take what is said against me or anybody here all that seriously – unless it is of as serious nature as sexual harassment or vicious character assassination – and suggest that you do the same too. i love this blog and i enjoy being here and interacting with all you good people.. i treat this blog as much as it is mine as it is Brangan’s. but the fact is that what happens on this blog and what i say here and what anybody say to me here represents a minuscule part of my life. i say what i want to say with as much dignity i can summon up.i never let anything or anybody hurt me personally . nobody is that dear to me here not even Brangan 😀
Hope to see you around and hope for many more engagements with you where we disagree on everything 🙂
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MANK
March 7, 2016
Rahini, i do understand your position there.but you see it was of no use.it was clear from the beginning what you were dealing with .in such extreme cases, such conventional wisdom does not work .ditto for BR comparing censorship with Fascism. that too is conventional liberal wisdom or principle.it goes for me too. i am against banning anyone and i am against censorship.but none of that is going to be effective in such cases. i can sympathize with Brangan for passing the comments through . As he said and i can confirm that , it is impossible to read or understand Apex’s comments at one go. with all those caps locks , single letter words and double letter adjectives. i usually skip past his comments and if it wasn’t for this issue i wouldn’t have taken extra pains to read and understand them.
and reg: ” A few changed their display pics. Why hide? Why take up monikers that makes us unisex non-entitites ” – yeah that was what was really perplexing to me. i think i mentioned that in another thread jokingly – that perhaps the blog has become unsafe for women – without knowing what has happened . i never know so much was boiling underneath. but i tip my hat out to you again. no situation should arise on our blog that women find it impossible or unsafe to comment here.
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Gradwolf
March 7, 2016
Wow man this whole thread is so meta.
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Madan
March 7, 2016
@P: I had not come across Sharad Joshi’s name until he died and if I am not mistaken it was Ajit Ranade who took the pains to write about him for Mumbai Mirror. I was amazed by his story. I think everyone should read up about him, not just because he was a remarkable person but because his viewpoint challenges conventional thinking about the problem of farmers in India.
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2016
MANK: Alright. Full disclosure. My silence was because someone contacted me on my e-mail address (one that is associated with the name on here, which is fairly unique) and alluded to my identity. As I mentioned, it’s extremely easy to reverse engineer my identity from there. I’ve gone back and covered traces, tried to pull back on images etc. for a lot of reasons, some of which have to do with the communication itself and some if which are far too personal to discuss here. I want to make it clear that I have no proof of identity, but having been a student of linguistics, I can make educated guesses. I did discuss this with Rahini offline. I usually am more careful about how I conduct my online activities, particularly because the nature of my work can be political but I let my guard down here. Literally, the one place where I wasn’t buttoned up was this blog (which leads to mixed results).
I want to leave a link to this article on here. Lindy West, outspoken feminist, writer, editor, who has been targeted mercilessly because she is a woman with an opinion and is online. This is her take on safe spaces, trigger warnings, censorship, misogyny on the internet (a lot of which are words that have now become caricatures of themselves). I don’t agree with everything she writes. But there is a lot to consider.
“Neutrality is a pleasant concept, I guess, but neutrality isn’t neutral in situations—such as, say, all of Earth circa 3,000 B.C. to 2014 A.D.—when someone’s already getting the short end of the stick, when certain groups are being disproportionately targeted for silencing and harassment. Neutrality just perpetuates those imbalances. It’s a smokescreen. I don’t want to give all ideas equal credence forever, because there is a difference between different kinds of ideas.”
http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/f-neutrality-win-the-culture-wars-lindy-west/
Again, caveat emptor – American writer, American audience, American issues, but still some applicability worldwide. Plus, this blog (BR’s) is a cinema review blog run by one individual, not Ello, which is what Lindy is writing about. So again, NOT the same exact thing. Also, I realize feminism is starting to become a slur around these parts, and I am taking a calculated gamble here that people will actually read this for the thread running through it, a girl can hope, huh…? 😀
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2016
Punee: I love P. Sainath. Proudly own an autographed copy of the book you mention. He came to Pittsburgh to speak at an event organized by AID and I remember my very core being shaken by his work and his words. (Our twain just met, even though our understanding of the issue is still very different.)
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P
March 7, 2016
@MANK: You said: “I don’t think you need to go around asking confirmation of your worth.or about the fact that whether others are mistreating you, are they being too aggressive to you, am i too sentimental etc etc”
But it was AnonX that brought it up first, I had put my experiences with Anu and olemisstarana aside for more than a month and (while I was of course thinking about it over and over in person) made no mention of it here until AnonX mentioned it. It surprised me, it really did. And then I re-thought it and asked him for confirmation about whether he really thought it was “Aggression”. I repeat I didn’t ask for his confirmation of my worth, or whether there was mistreatment or if I was sentimental, I just asked about the aggression because as olemisstarana mentioned in her comment just now, this is the internet- one doesn’t really know what tone a person meant because its the written word unlike a personal conversation where you can hear and see the tone and demeanor of the person.
Trust me I don’t need a certificate of my self-worth from anyone(I know I’m pretty darn awesome) nor do I need anyone to explain to me as how emotional I am- I know that I am, it is something that is unchangeable 🙂 If you still think that me asking for confirmation on what others saw in the tone of someone else’s comments and posts was wrong then I am going to give it some thought 🙂 Maybe I shouldn’t care about their tones- is what you are saying?
I don’t know how many times, I will have to say this, but I love strong opinions, who has had stronger opinions than you- I have loved sparring with you 🙂 and people “throwing” strong opinions at me leaves me sizzling with pleasure- its just personal attacks and mocking sarcasm that I can’t take 🙂 (as yet! I am working on it!!)
Its quite hilarious to me that I don’t know how to deal with sarcasm and personal comments/attacks(trying to fix it by speaking up at avenues like this 🙂 ) considering I am always thinking very personally about everything- I can’t keep a “scholarly distance”(the kind that us art students are taught to keep so as to be absolutely rational 🙂 ). But I can say with pride that no matter how anyone- here or anywhere else “attacked” me instead of my beliefs I have never, ever attacked or made personal comments about anyone else. I would rather leave a place and not “win” an argument than say something personally vicious and ill-mannered that will stick like a stain on my character forever…
PS: Thanks for your comment on my languages/dance topic, its something very dear to my heart so I am glad you noticed!
PPS: I remember you giving me this advice once before- that I should not wear my heart on my sleeve, to not take things so seriously (paraphrasing) because the world won’t be kind to me, and no, I don’t think you are cold at all– you are a very nice person 🙂
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P
March 7, 2016
@olemisstarana: I am not good at taking personal attacks on myself- I prefer people debating the substance of my arguments. And please don’t think that this is the first SJW-type person I have met- I live in a socialist country (India) where there is a naxalbari wannabe on every street- it incenses them so much that someone with my “life experiences” dares to be a political conservative. There have been people who have called me an Indian “house nigger” (I am sure you know that term- living in the US) and an Uncle Tom, and this is nothing compared to the Indian social conservatives who despise me for my Anglophilia and have said things like “Angrezi talve chantna to kuttion ka kaam hai” ….even so its difficult for me to “take” it, I have not been able to take personal, sarcastic comments and I am working on it…
And please don’t “defer” to me on my experience as a outcaste, you and anyone else has every right to an opinion as do I. This is the very culture I dislike. Just because I have never had a husband with a second wife- doesn’t mean I don’t have the right to comment on Bajirao Mastani! Isn’t that absurd? The thing about humans is that we can put ourselves in the feet of others and feel things from that perspective, and we have every right to thus think from that perspective. Why else would we all cry for Aylan Kurdi otherwise? Why else would the plight of Anna Frank hurt us so much otherwise? Why else would we feel happy when Scott Walker comes home safe from his tour of outer space? Why would anyone feel horror at the plight of Nirbhaya otherwise?
I don’t think my experiences make me an authority- its just an experience. I still live in a free country. I still built my life up all on my own, clawing my way to the top of where I am- much to the horror of the people who thought I wouldn’t 🙂 You said ” Even if you do, and I run with it, I felt that some of the things you said had such a lack of compassion that my hackles flew up.”- yes, your hackles flew up, and that’s understandable, but asking me what is the color of my skin to decide whether I am worthy of commenting on an issue which is about the color of someone’s skin was a little much for me, even if you meant it as sarcasm. I have deep wounds like I said to MANK, and I don’t want to open their scabs. I pride myself on being civilized and well-mannered at all times and didn’t think you or Anu deserved to have my worst assumptions(made in the heat of the moment) of your arguments and characters written down in posterity forever on this corner of the internet.
Re: There being group think from what I have understood in two years of silent observation of this comment space- most people have similar opinions on political items. I repeat again that I see nothing wrong with that. Its like saying most Indian women have names ending in “a”. Its a statistical happening.
Re: “I genuinely felt (and again, this is my perception of our interaction) that you display selective deafness when you read responses to you, which leads to me getting shoutier and shoutier, and you feeling attacked. ”
I honestly dont think I did that in the B&W thread- the only place I interacted with you. I, in fact quoted you and answered your points wherever I thought I could. I really try my best to be thorough…but I will keep this feedback in mind. Maybe I addressed the point and you didn’t think my answer was up to the mark? That can also be the case? (just thinking out loud here)
Re: “you seem to throw every peripheral piece of information, learned and otherwise, personal and otherwise, at the wall to see what sticks.”
Honestly that is literally how I think- my mind jumps from point to point and I rarely edit what I type- which is like a stream of consciousness writing exercise 😛 I really don’t care to make anything “stick”- I am not here to change the world or “make a difference” or “educate people” etc, I just like jousting verbally and keeping my brain and my arguments sharp- that’s it!
PS: I will not say anything about the apex issue, I really tried my best to diffuse the situation(though you may not like my methods)- and yes I will admit it is because I have a bias for him, but I can see now that the minds of others seem to be made up- and that’s fine too 🙂
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2016
Punee: Again, respectfully, when you bring up personal points and then are asked about your basis for bringing them up, and the question becomes personal BECAUSE YOU brought up personal issues right at the top of it, you cannot plead victim.
Everything you mention in this response to me is so personal that I can’t touch it, given our past interaction. So what you are saying is, I will say what I want to, but you can’t hold me responsible for my words, because of my wounds etc. I also am confused about why you are so scornful of lived experience.
I really don’t think you want a conversation, Punee. You want to say things at people, not to them, and you want agreement. Neither of which I am amenable to.
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2016
“PS: I will not say anything about the apex issue, I really tried my best to diffuse the situation(though you may not like my methods)- and yes I will admit it is because I have a bias for him, but I can see now that the minds of others seem to be made up- and that’s fine too :)”
I don’t think that’s not saying anything. I also think you need to understand your equation with him is something that is really far outside my interest. I do think that when you insert yourself into the situation that involves me, my interaction with him and my criticism of that, you should be more careful with your words. I don’t like your methods because you try and tell others how to manage their reactions toward him.
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2016
Shalini: Rahini pointed me to a few threads that are germane to your last observation. Mind=blown. BR you are a saint with the patience of a saint.
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Iswarya
March 7, 2016
Punee: Re: “you seem to throw every peripheral piece of information, learned and otherwise, personal and otherwise, at the wall to see what sticks.”
Honestly that is literally how I think- my mind jumps from point to point and I rarely edit what I type- which is like a stream of consciousness writing exercise 😛 I really don’t care to make anything “stick”- I am not here to change the world or “make a difference” or “educate people” etc, I just like jousting verbally and keeping my brain and my arguments sharp- that’s it!
Actually this makes talking to you pretty difficult, because much as stream-of-consciousness may be a great device for a creative process, it is very ill-suited for arguments and puts the onus heavily on the listener to try and piece together your thought processes. Internet being the harsh place that it is, anybody who makes thinking and argument a taxing process for others during an online interaction naturally inspires a little hostility. Combined with your somewhat irrational leaps from argument to conclusion to fact to opinion and back to argument, and your penchant for opinions that are not only unconventional (which could be a nice thing, in fact) but also not-clearly-thought-out ideas, you might come across to some as refreshing and to some others as just tiresome. Trust me, being ‘ill-mannered’ is not just a matter of calling other names or being unnecessarily sarcastic. It could simply be talking without completely thinking through.
And I say this only because I admired your writing on such matters where you displayed a lot of knowledge (I too liked your writing about languages and dance). For someone who likes Ayn Rand (I happened to see your blog long ago, during our first interaction) and happens to be on the rightish side of the political spectrum, it is particularly difficult to see that you don’t value ‘rational’ argumentation all that much. I hope you give this some thought.
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Iswarya
March 7, 2016
Shalini/Olemisstarana: I became familiar with at least some portions of whatever was alluded to in that comment during my marathon-nights-archive-binges during 2012, when I started reading this blog ‘seriously.’ I was in lurker mode here back then and had never commented. Now, when I made that comment, I made it with all of that backstory in mind, seeing that he still soldiers on with undiminished patience. 🙂
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Kid
March 7, 2016
Olemisstarana: If you promise not to lose your cool, I would like to say something to you regarding this current, ongoing dialogue you are having with Punee. Apologies if you think I am trying to butt-in, but the only reason I am trying to even say something to you here is because I have the greatest respect for you as a commenter (I said this earlier as well, but you are easily one of my favourite commenters here. When you and MANK had such nice things to say about me or my writings, I was genuinely very happy even if you guys had probably mistaken virtual form of cave-etchings as some kind of worthwhile writing 🙂 ). If you of course wouldn’t want to
MANK: The first paragraph of your second last comment (which is addressed to Punee) is one of the best things I have read online of late. I don’t one could have framed it as delicately as you without losing the essence of the comment. And not for a moment did it sound patronising. Then again such elegance is expected from a Lal fan.
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venkatesh
March 7, 2016
/me shakes his head and waits for it to all calm down.
This too shall pass.
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P
March 7, 2016
@olemisstarana: I think we come from way too different streams of thought for us to even begin to understand each other. I thought all the replies I gave you were cogent and sensible and here you are saying things like “You want to say things at people, not to them, and you want agreement.” You can see the longest thread on this blog- the BM one- and my arguments there to know that agreement is the least of what I want 🙂 Respectful disagreement is perfect for me. Maybe we should just agree to disagree 🙂
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2016
Kid: Actually, no… I don’t think there is anything that can be said in this context that would be productive. I would love to engage those who are interested in dialogue and debate and discussion, there’s enough of such folks on here. Not someone who wants to talk in my direction and expect either silence or agreement. Thanks for your kind offer, though.
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P
March 7, 2016
@Iswarya: Thank you. That made so much sense! I appreciate what you have said- its a very cogent criticism. And yes, that is the reason I will now only participate on the movie-related threads – because art- movies, music, sculpture, painting are items on which I can make sensible comments and write in an easily understandable “essay” style so to speak, because it is something I have trained all my life in. I left the B&W thread because my thoughts were getting muddied up, and also because it dawned on me that I never came to BR’s blog for a political discussion! 🙂 I was punching way above my level and I apologize for my rudeness/ill-manners (to all concerned).And in doing so give no excuses to myself for being “tiresome” (as you so wonderfully put it!) except to say that I was excited and wanted to participate 🙂 I prize civility above everything else, it is after all what Civilization is based on!
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Madan
March 7, 2016
For someone who likes Ayn Rand (I happened to see your blog long ago, during our first interaction) and happens to be on the rightish side of the political spectrum, it is particularly difficult to see that you don’t value ‘rational’ argumentation all that much
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Madan
March 7, 2016
@ olesmisstarana: Thank you for sharing that article. I did read it. Full disclosure: From what little I know of the Halloween fracas at Yale, I am not very sympathetic towards some SJ projects. I have once actually been handed out racial abuse online and I only found the episode incredibly hilarious because it was a guy calling me an Indian rice picker because I wrote a review ‘dissing’ some metal band and I thought what guy is insecure enough to do that and actually also believe that would be effective. Now if I were denied opportunity on account of being Indian (not that it’s happened since, um, I live in India) I would be furious but I personally couldn’t give a flying shit about somebody’s opinion of me and am very happy to be underestimated because it makes my job easier. I respect, however, that not everyone is of the same persuasion.
With all that said, one para in the article was very interesting:
“Not all opinions have merit, and not all ideas are just “different”—some are actively destructive, if not deadly, and unworthy of mainstream validation.”
This one sentence helps me put in perspective what SJ is all about at heart. Call it rights or respect or whatever but I see it as a fresh wave of philosophical churning in Western society after years. Because that sentence is the polar opposite of post modernism which says that we cannot discriminate between opinions on merit as merit is in the eyes of the beholder. Of course, at present, the question appears to be limited to opinions on the subject of race, gender or ethnicity but who’s to say it won’t swallow other domains of opinion as it expands? I am both excited and terrified by what I see. On the other hand, I do agree with this…up to a point:
“but neutrality isn’t neutral in situations—such as, say, all of Earth circa 3,000 B.C. to 2014 A.D.—when someone’s already getting the short end of the stick, when certain groups are being disproportionately targeted for silencing and harassment”
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Shalini
March 7, 2016
@venkatesh – Remember BR’s “introspection” period when he treated (yeah, that’s the word) us with brangansplaining posts on film critiquing/film watching/film analysis, yada yada, every other week? I keep reminding myself that I survived that.
😀
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Shalini
March 7, 2016
@Rahini, olemisstarana – I’m pretty sure it’s one of youze turn to bring the organic éclairs to the Real Professors Aggressive Group-thinkers Association meeting this week.
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brangan
March 7, 2016
apex: In response to your request about publishing your last few comments (still in the moderation queue), I want to say a few things:
(1) I find it really, really hard to read your comments. With the others, I can just skim and get what the comment is about. Not so with your comments. Plus I just got to know how you use double quotes etc. to twist seemingly innocent words. This is becoming a full-time job.
(2) In one of those comments, you addressed “KayKay” as “koy koy.” I’m not sure if it’s a mistake or a deliberate dig. I don’t want more people to get upset and I don’t want to have to ask you to deliver another non-apology.
(3) Yes, we do go off on tangents from time to time, but almost all your comments seem to be tangents. I have cleared maybe one or two about movies, but the rest are simply addressed to people. The signal to noise ratio is very low in your comments.
(4) I’ve already lost some valuable readers, and I’d like to avoid more from leaving.
So yes, until I get some time to sit down and scan each word, these comments are going to remain in the queue.
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P
March 7, 2016
@Madan: I have been in and out of Bombay this past year so regretfully missed that Bombay Mirror piece, I think Ajit Ranade must have done a good job if it has affected you so much- since you say you hadn’t heard of Sharad ji before this 🙂
@olemisstarana: Glad you liked Sainath’s sir’s book, he is a god for those of us who study agricultural situations in India, I haven’t had the pleasure of meeting him(I gave up on politics once out of college!) but I have been told he knows of me 🙂 I used to be a highly political right winger farmers/soldiers right supporting small govt radical capitalist and presented lots of papers in my college days. Let me show off a little- I was told that I could some day give a takkar to Vandana Shiva, I gave it all up because reality took over and I am not a rich upper-caste person who can go around playing “revolution” since my pockets were empty, but thankfully now we have Kavin Senapathy giving her as good as she gets. Maybe the situation for our poor farmers will finally improve…
I left political arguments a loooong time ago, which is why maybe they are rusty. I apologize again for my stream of consciousness comments(Iswarya’s explanation of how they are tiresome really got me thinking!)! See you around!
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2016
Madan – I’m off to go get a new little canine companion and then 3 days at a beach, so please don’t think that I didn’t read your comment. I have so much I want to say, but I really want to be a better, more reasoned writer, and this is definitely a fraught issue. I’ll see you very soon!
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Iswarya
March 7, 2016
Madan:
I’ve myself largely grown out of my erstwhile Ayn Rand-fangirlism. But then, what I meant was that most people who profess to like Rand are also big fans of whatever they see as cold logic or ultra-rational argumentation. I was pointing out the inconsistency between what Punee seemed to admire and what she herself practised (a charge that I understand you might want to equally level at Rand!) 🙂
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KayKay
March 7, 2016
“In one of those comments, you addressed “KayKay” as “koy koy.””
Hahahahahaha…….. consider me tickled pink 🙂
Given that I referred to him as “apox”, it’s fairly obvious this is his “inspired” comeback.
It’s your blog, B, but my 2 cents is to keep the brat locked outside hammering away at the door until he learns some manners. AND the art of apologizing to a lady. Like a REAL man.
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Kid
March 7, 2016
Olemisstarana:
“I would love to engage those who are interested in dialogue and debate and discussion, there’s enough of such folks on here”.-
I actually was interested in dialogue, but I guess you think otherwise. And thanks (not being snarky here), now that I do know you do not want engage with me in a dialogue/discussion, I would not come in your way anymore (not that I have done so earlier) 🙂 .
“Not someone who wants to talk in my direction and expect either silence or agreement”-
I don’t even know what to say to this other than the fact that I am hardly expecting silence or agreement. Anyway, I do apologise if anything in that comment of mine rubbed you the wrong way.
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P
March 7, 2016
@Iswarya: I don’t want to turn this into a discussion of Objectivist epistemology, but needed to say a word…Yes, a lot of Objectivists are coldly logical to the point where they discount emotions in their discussions leading to people tarring all of “us” with the same feather of “robot”. Ayn Rand herself though didn’t ever do that- she valued emotions and thought they were automatic “reactions”(though needed to be introspected on time and again). I quote:
“There can be no causeless love or any sort of causeless emotion. An emotion is a response to a fact of reality, an estimate dictated by your standards.”
I completely agree with your point that my stream of consciousness writing style is not a valid in an argument though, AR would be quite ashamed of me 🙂 Thanks again for bringing it to my notice.
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MANK
March 7, 2016
KayKay, where the hell were you man.
if you were here, you think any of this would have happened? you would have taken care of him like you did your old friends RR & Anuj. 😀
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2016
Kid…. sigh. No. None of that was directed at you. I just said I didn’t want to open more cans of worms regarding my interaction with Punee. I thought it was you offering to be an intermediary. “If you promise not to lose your cool, I would like to say something to you regarding this current, ongoing dialogue you are having with Punee.” I think this medium, fine that it is, is not appropriate for such meta, meta, meta, meta three-way analyses. Again, not directed at you. (I really enjoy reading all your comments, even if I don’t chime in every time to say this.)
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2016
Kid – do read my previous comments right above for more context.
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Iswarya
March 7, 2016
MANK: Wow! I was wondering about the name of that second guy all along. It had somehow escaped me (or was there one Raj too on that list?). I want to just say: Ditto this sentiment! 🙂
(Sigh.. For lack of an up vote button.. ducks while bullets zoom past) 😀
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MANK
March 7, 2016
I will now only participate on the movie-related threads – because art- movies, music, sculpture, painting are items on which I can make sensible comments and write in an easily understandable “essay” style so to speak, because it is something I have trained all my life in.
Punee, that’s a very good decision 🙂 and i am not being sarcastic at all . that is what i usually do. . i usually stick to movie related subjects and stay away from the non filmi ones – which explains why i was not there in B&W or Vacation note threads- and let me tell you why. This is not a reflection on all the commenters here who passionately argues and fights on these threads here, our blog is richer , robust and ecclectic because of them. but it is just my POV. when we discuss movies, there is a lot of leeway for individualistic preferences and subjective viewpoints which is much less when you are discussing a burning sociopolitical issue like Racism or casteism , misogyny etc etc…movies are almost 80 to 85 % subjective experiences and you can have heated arguments but still keep a dignified disagreement about all aspect of a film (that is unless you are arguing with the most rabid fanboys). in case of socio political problems , it is the reverse , but still there is a certain amount of subjectivity inherent there too. unfortunately, when you get in to a heated argument about these things , people totally forget the subjective aspect of it and get obsessed about the absolute truthfulness (objectivity) of their views and tend to shove it down the other’s throat. i have seen this even in face to face arguments where moderates become extremists and extremists become terrorists.so is there any need to explain what will happen on an online blog As you see on this blog itself, much of the acrimony and fights usually happen on these threads or while discussing such subjects- from which mercifully i remain absent 🙂
so let us stick to what we do best and discuss more important issues . so tell me now, do you still think Bajirao loves both the women equally or is he being only polite to Kashi ? 😀
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
March 7, 2016
@BR (point #1 about apex): SAME BLOOD!
@apex: No offence 🙂
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MANK
March 7, 2016
Kid:The first paragraph of your second last comment (which is addressed to Punee) is one of the best things I have read online of late
You think too much of me Kid, i am not that clever . All i want is a truce
(Okay since everyone is getting high on godfather here , i wanted my own godfather line 🙂 )
What i wanted to say was that i am not so clever like the fellow who deduced this to deduce this about TikTikTik
“but I think this is the director’s strongest polemical/social statement- even more so than Sigappu Rojakkal- where the deracinated “urban” Tamilian/Tamilians are depicted as sleazy, creepy douchebags of sorts. Of course this point becomes even more considering the authentic, rural Tamilian first found his actual voice in Bharathiraja’s films.”
Ha, and i thought both TikTikTik and sigappu rojakkal were just plain good fun, one more nouvelle vaguestyle , the other more japanese snuff film style.
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P
March 7, 2016
@MANK: Thanks! 🙂 Of course, couldn’t think at all that you were being sarcy 😛
As for Bajirao and Kashibai- I think its a different kind of love- a gentle love made so by growing up together and keeping duty above self. Its not an all-consuming and maddening and lets-get-pregnant-instantly kinda love, though 🙂 😉 I can imagine how the latter might not appeal to some 😛
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MANK
March 8, 2016
My silence was because someone contacted me on my e-mail address (one that is associated with the name on here, which is fairly unique) and alluded to my identity.
Olemisstarana, i am sorry i didn’t notice your comment before. its been raining comments here. i missed this one. ok so i get it.
And thanks for sharing that link . loved reading it and as Madan said agree with the points you quoted there, up to a point.
Punee, so you bothered to answer my question there? (Applause!)
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sanjana
March 8, 2016
This thread is turning into Ekta Kapoor’s soap opera. Misunderstandingas, understandings, foes turning into friends and emotional outpourings. And some Dale Carnegie. How to make friends and how to make enemies? And also a bit of Mahabharat. Some Ramayan too.
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sanjana
March 8, 2016
Dont forget your old friends when you start getting new friends. Sabke saath.
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Iswarya
March 8, 2016
Punee: I prize civility above everything else, it is after all what Civilization is based on!
I guess this might be the first statement you’ve posted here that I’ll unreservedly, wholeheartedly agree with. Good. Look forward to interacting with you in better times. 🙂
Aside – Missing Ram Murali who believed in the same principle throughout.
Rahini: A lot of traffic came up here on this thread today and I somehow forgot to add this point.
The person who regreted that this place is not as filmi as it should be and is now more about personal anecdotes: I am sorry. These anecdotes have improved this place. The ones about pregnancy, the ones about misogyny, the ones about casteism etc. They need to come out. If this is not about some obscure french movie then so be it. I rate Punee’s experiences with her tribal birth status a lot more important than any thing else here, ever.
I think this is also a sort of natural progression of this blog. We have been observing from those stat monkey reports that over the last 4 years or so, the visits to this site have gone up about threefold. With more general readers coming in, I think there is bound to be a certain ‘dilution’ for those who want to look at it that way, or simply a broadening of focus. I think that is what is reflected even in BR finishing up with that L,C,C column and doing T,T&EE now.
Interestingly, Mani Ratnam said something similar in his BFI interview with Peter Webber last year about progressing with his age, from the time he used to worry about getting the long shadows effect as in Westside Story to engaging with the issues around him as he grew older. Here it is from roughly the 26-min mark:
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Madan
March 8, 2016
Iswarya: My point was different, that the seemingly rational vacuum of excellence preached by Rand and also theorized by 19th century neo classical economists doesn’t exist in reality. So what SEEMS rational is really just idealist fantasy. Capitalism with regulation to mitigate risk is the way to go, a la what Raghuram Rajan preached in 2007.
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newbie
March 9, 2016
Sorry, bit late here, as usual.
Iswarya – Ditto about Ram Murali. And everything else you’ve said. Your comment dissecting Punee’s writing style was particularly lucid.
Punee – “but asking me what is the color of my skin to decide whether I am worthy of commenting on an issue which is about the color of someone’s skin was a little much for me, even if you meant it as sarcasm.
Terribly sorry to bring this up again but just wanted to say, the way I understood it – the question came from a more innocuous ‘no uterus – no opinion on childbirth pain’ school of thought more than anything else. (i.e. how much ever men try to empathise with our pain during childbirth, they will never ever get it fully because they will never ever get to experience it. That doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion on it – its simply that its they can never fully understand it). I don’t think it was really meant to criticise you personally based on your background in a hypocritical way even if it was quite a heated argument (otherwise it wouldn’t have gone unchecked at the time) but of course, now we know it triggered a different kind of response in you based on your own experience.
Anywho, very glad that some kind of peace has been achieved here. And kudos to BR for having taken inputs on moderation quite seriously.
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Rahul
March 9, 2016
For whatever its worth, I read apex’s comments about someones profile pic and subsequent innuendo. IMHO that kind of stuff is creepy , stalkerish and does not belong on this blog , there ought not to be any subjectivity in this. That said, BR, its your blog, and if you need any help with moderation , I am ready to pitch in.
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olemisstarana
March 9, 2016
The question I posed to Punee about her color of skin was very contextual. Within the thread she had mentioned it at least once, if not more. In asking that question, I was setting up a longer point of discussion. There was no sarcasm meant whatsoever. (I could have definitely been less confrontational, and that is something I regret and have taken ownership of.) However, Punee has a tendency of sharing reams of personal information, making larger expansive relevant/irrelevant points using said personal information and recoiling in horror, reaping victim righteousness when someone interjects a perfectly adjacent, relevant question with the intent of furthering the discussion, if she feels called out on it.
Again, as mentioned several times earlier.
1. Punee makes personal statements,
2. I ask her questions about said statements,
3. I am accused of being offensive/too personal.
4. Woe is Punee.
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Nee
March 9, 2016
“Punee has a tendency of sharing reams of personal information, making larger expansive relevant/irrelevant points using said personal information and recoiling in horror, reaping victim righteousness”
There is narcissistic, childish temper tantrums to “infantile neediness, dependency, and dread of abandonment” if you observe it goes from how great I am (I didn’t take reservation seat, I never interviewed for a job in last few positions etc) to how abused I am (people turning their heads away when I was 9. How did 9 year old in all innocence figure things out?). Even in the commenting style it is constant “look at me, look at me” syndrome. I feel sorry for her as she needs help desperately and not possible for strangers on cyberspace to do so for her.
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newbie
March 9, 2016
Olemisstarana – Sorry to you (and ALL) if I have inadvertently stoked things again – that was never my intention. About the confrontational style, yes. (although there is a lot of wit in your usual posts and if you aren’t already an author or a columnist, they are career paths that will definitely suit you!) You might find the link below a light, interesting read although some of the points are UK-centric (surprisingly, I remembered something you had said about idealism when reading point 6 in it) The author Caitlin Moran is someone I like very much – not sure if she is popular across the pond though
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/mar/05/caitlin-moran-start-win-argument-online-moranifesto
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Srinivas R
March 10, 2016
I happened to go through the comments section on the Black and white thread and the vacation notes only now. IMO, apex needs to be banned. BR, I understand your stand on censorship, but in this case, the other readers are/ were being harassed. I believe the comments section belongs to the readers as much as it does to you. So if one commentor is acting in a stalkerish manner and subjecting the women readers to what amounts to sexual harassment, then avoiding censorship takes a back seat.
Not to sound dramatic, but if someone decides to take legal action against apex, you will also be unfortunately pulled in. Not that I anticipate any such thing, but just to highlight the seriousness of the issue.
Also, thank you for being patient and receptive to the readers and for taking immediate action in moderating the troublesome comments.
I have immense respect for this blog and the readers here and sad to see a few people leave.
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olemisstarana
March 10, 2016
newbie: I plan on sticking around this blog. I just want to understand the new rules of conversation in place. No fires stoked, no pitchforks brandished.
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olemisstarana
March 10, 2016
Also, I ❤ Caitlin Moran and her “How to be a Woman” is venerable and well-thumbed. I really appreciate the link and wish I had had it when I lived in the deep south for 2 years. Might have saved me from developing a couple ulcers. Never too late, I suppose. 🙂 Thanks.
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Srinivas R
March 10, 2016
I see that my previous comment sounds accusatory, not my intention at all. Sincere apologies.
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Iswarya
March 10, 2016
newbie: Thanks. And yes, that link was a great read. Thanks again.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
March 11, 2016
Iswarya : Couldnt agree more with your comment on Ram Murali
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