Spoilers ahead…
The way we speak in real life, that’s conversation. The way people in a certain kind of movie speak, that’s dialogue. Both kinds of exchange are present in Karan Johar’s Ae Dil Hai Mushil. The film opens with a gun-to-the-head dedication to the army that doesn’t feel all that misplaced. Romance, after all, is its own kind of war. Borders are breached. The heart mounts a defence. There’s the scoping out of territory, which is what the Urdu-couplet-spouting poet Saba (Aishwarya Rai Bachchan, looking like an Urdu couplet herself) does with wounded-in-love Ayan (Ranbir Kapoor). The conversation version of the scene would go like this. She’d give him her number. She’d say, “Give me a call sometime.” Johar gives us the dialogue version. Saba hands Ayan a book of her poetry. She’s scrawled her number on the title page. As she leaves, she says, “Agar alfaaz kaam na aaye to number istemaal kar lena.” Translation: Stop moping. Buck up and soldier on.
In Johar’s world, as in the world of an older Hindi cinema, love takes the form of dialogue. Here’s what Ayan says when he lands up in Vienna, where Saba lives: ‘Aap’ ko ‘tum’ banane aaya hoon. Here’s what Alizeh (Anushka Sharma) says when she refers to her girl-hopping ex, Ali (extremely good-looking star from a neighbouring country who cannot be named here because I do not have Rs. 5 crore to spare): Woh meri mohabbat tha aur main uski aadat. Here’s how Ayan justifies his adamant pursuit of Alizeh, who just wants to be friends: Zid meri hai kyonki dil mera hai. Friendship, on the other hand, takes the form of conversation – it sounds less like Hindi cinema, more like Bollywood. Consider the early scene with Ayan and his ditz of a girlfriend (a delightful Lisa Haydon, thanks to whom I will never hear the word “vatavaran” the same way again). They’re just together. They’re not really in love. She complains that he doesn’t take her side when she’s teased. He says, with a barely concealed grin, “I always stand up for you.” This is conversation. It’s also the first erection joke in Johar’s cinema, which usually targets glands further up north: It’s all about loving your tear ducts. Ae Dil sees a very different Johar – or at least, the Johar we haven’t seen since Kal Ho Naa Ho. It’s melodrama with zing. It’s melodrama that keeps you smiling.
The film is about one-sided love that’s four-sided – we see the flame burning in Saba’s ex-husband, in Alizeh, in Saba herself, and, of course, in Ayan. It’s about houses that look like Macy’s windows during Christmas-time, but with darker tints in the corners. It’s about the kind of possessiveness that makes men ask “Did you have sex with him?” before asking “Are you in love with him?” It’s about being with someone who inspires you enough to sing your heart out, and then discovering, at the end of the song, that your heart lies with someone else. It’s about love being a literal weight on the chest (“dil ka bojh,” as our older films used to say) – this thought is shaped into a pair of magnificent echo moments. It’s about men as children, men who, instead of consoling someone with a life-threatening illness, end up needing to be consoled. It’s about good looks coming in the way of being taken seriously, something that Karan Johar’s cinema knows almost as well as Aishwarya Rai, whose character admits, touchingly, that she doesn’t get much respect from the literary establishment. (Aishwarya plays this sophisticated creature beautifully, with a series of perfectly judged looks and glances.) It’s about Ayan learning about heartbreak. After an early breakup, he simply cries like a kid whose toy has been snatched away. Later, he’ll weep so hard, he won’t be able to breathe.
Ae Dil is something of a belated experiment. It sees Johar stepping into Imtiaz Ali’s laboratory where free-spirited women catalyse the transformation of boys into men. The bit from Rockstar about how you have to experience pain in order to become a good musician (Ayan aspires to become a singer; his last name is Sanger), the bit from Love Aaj Kal where a man spills out that he’s truly-madly-deeply in love only when the woman is getting married – that’s all here. But there’s also a different kind of experimentation, where Johar is asking, “How much of the Hindi cinema that some of us adore can I still hold on to while making movies for audiences that prefer Bollywood?” Put differently, how does one take Daag to viewers to whom Yash Raj is synonymous with Dhoom? How does one embrace Noorjehan and Farida Khanum as well as The Breakup Song and Cutiepie in Pritam’s blockbuster soundtrack? How do you dish out heartfelt, carefully sculpted dialogue in a world where ppl converse casually in 140 chrctrs?
Johar’s formula is 50% sincerity, 50% self-aware winking. And wanking. Ae Dil is practically antakshari for lovers of Hindi cinema, but it isn’t the empty referencing from Johar’s earlier cinema. Both Alizeh and Ayan are fans of movies from a different era. (As for Saba, she is from the movies of a different era, though far more sexually liberated.) Ae Dil keeps thinking of ways to weave these references into the narrative. A nod to Dev Anand’s character in Guide pops up as Alizeh offers to guide Ayan through the dating scene. A verse from the drug-addled Jai jai Shivshankar becomes the backdrop for a scene in a cancer-treatment ward. Imtiaz Ali may have referenced Don in Tamasha, but Johar smacks his lips and digs deeper, all the way to the bottom of the barrel, all the way to the Padmalaya films. A number from Tohfa segues into a line about a gift. Ranbir Kapoor doffs a hat to his father (“Main shayar to nahin”) and himself (the “okkeh bye” from Saawariya). Seen in this light, Johar’s self-referencing doesn’t seem so masturbatory. We get the moment from Kuch Kuch Hota Hai where Shah Rukh plays an invisible piano, and a nod to the “be-inteha mohabbat” in Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna. But it blends into the landscape where everyone is getting off on cinema, for this kind of filmmaking isn’t about the reality we know from the world as much as the reality we know from the movies. Even the conversations aren’t exactly what we’d say. They’re not “That felt good.” They’re more like “Dil ka pet bhar gaya.”
Johar hasn’t invented this kind of movie-making. It was always there, not just in older Hindi cinema, but in older Hollywood as well. Casablanca knew it was a groan-inducing coincidence that Ingrid Bergman and Humphrey Bogart just happened to end up exactly in the same place, many moons after they parted. Hence this dialogue from Bogart, who now runs a nightclub: “Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine.” We laugh not just because it’s a great line. We also laugh because the film is aware that we are aware of the contrivance. And it’s nice to see this kind of film back on the big screen –in a form that’s more appealing to the modern-day audience, but without the sense of mockery in other films that play with older tropes. We get the airport climax – but with an ambulance. We get the chiffon-sari moment in the Alps – but with a dash of hypothermia. We get the moment where the hero talks about his mother – but she ran away when he was two. We get Gaata rahe mera dil – but with a scandalous diss to Rafi, who’s dismissed as a crybaby. Where Yash Chopra led us through fields of flowers, Johar hands us a cactus. Literally. That’s what Alizeh’s tohfa to Ayan is.
Some of this is hard to take seriously. There’s a gag early on where Ayan and Alizeh compete with each other to prove how hot their respective partners are – and later, after getting together with Saba, Ayan keeps clicking pictures of her, so he can send them to Alizeh and prove he’s hit the jackpot. These points about looks are meaningless in a film in which the less-attractive option looks like Anushka Sharma. But my only real quibble was that the film doesn’t cut as deep as I’d have liked – perhaps Ranbir Kapoor has played this part a few too many times. His instincts are extraordinary (watch him look into a mirror and admit he wants to be with Alizeh) and there’s no other actor as much at ease with his feminine side, which makes his line readings off-the-charts unpredictable. But it’s time to retire this man-child. It helps that he’s paired with Anushka Sharma. What he shared with Deepika Padukone in Tamasha was chemistry. This is electricity, two young people juiced up by the prospect of hanging out. Their appropriation of Lag jaa gale is the best old-song-in-a-new-movie moment since Abhi na jaao in Mausam. Again, it’s not just simple Hindi-film nostalgia. It’s about the words and how, sometimes, lyrics and music make it far easier to put across a sentiment like “Maybe we’ll never meet again in this lifetime.”
This moony-eyed romance is surprisingly tinged with unapologetic sex. There’s a fascinating scene – a first in Hindi cinema – where a man acknowledges that his former wife is now having sex with a younger man, but he’s such a romantic that he wants the new lover to let her sleep for at least a bit, so he can enter her dreams. Is your response a sigh? A roll of the eye? But there’s no question Johar has turned a corner. In Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna, you sensed his fear. He made the union look less like the meeting of hearts than the fruit of a decade-long penance. (Some of the scenes really seemed to go on that long.) Ae Dil runs about two-and-a-half hours, but there’s very little padding or pandering – it zips along. You sense confidence. You sense freedom. You sense a bit of the raised middle finger Ayan shows Alizeh. For the first time, Karan Johar comes across like a filmmaker who’s going to end up making love stories with a happily-never-after.
KEY:
- Ae Dil Hai Mushkil = love is complicated
- “Agar alfaaz kaam na aaye to number istemaal kar lena.” = If these words don’t help, use this number.
- ‘Aap’ ko ‘tum’ banane aaya hoon. = I’ve come here to know you better.
- Woh meri mohabbat tha aur main uski aadat. = He was my love. I was just his habit.
- Zid meri hai kyonki dil mera hai. = It’s my heart. It can be as stubborn as I want.
- vatavaran = aura, milieu
- Rockstar = see here
- Love Aaj Kal = see here
- Daag = see here
- Dhoom = see here. and here
- antakshari = see here
- Tamasha = see here
- Saawariya = see here
- “be-inteha mohabbat” = limitless love
- Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna = see here
- “Dil ka pet bhar gaya.” = That felt good.
- tohfa = gift
- Mausam = see here
Copyright ©2016 Baradwaj Rangan. This article may not be reproduced in its entirety without permission. A link to this URL, instead, would be appreciated.
P
October 29, 2016
GORGEOUS!!! LOVED IT! NOW I WANT TO WATCH IT AGAIN!
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Selvin Paul
October 29, 2016
“Hence this dialogue from Bogart, who now runs a nightclub: “Of all the gin joints, in all the towns, in all the world, she walks into mine.” We laugh not just because it’s a great line. We also laugh because the film is aware that we are aware of the contrivance”,
Thanks! will be revisiting Casablanca today!
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piggie
October 29, 2016
This movie left me with a smile on my face.. Truly.. “Dil ka pet bhar gaya” 🙂
How gorgeous did Aishwarya look?! Oh my god! I was totally sold on her as the enigmatic, sexually alluring poetess.. Her scenes with Ranbir and that one scene with Shahrukh were probably my favourite part of the film.. Someone please give her another role like this, where she can speak through the eyes.. She said so much in those knowing glances when she met Ayan at the airport.. And the ease with which poetry, masquerading as dialogue, flowed from her lips.. Beautiful.. How apt was Aaj Jaane Ki Zid Na Karo for her? The song sounds like her presence feels.. I don’t think any of the younger actors and actresses have that presence yet.. The gravity of persona and grace and.. age? Felt this when Shahrukh appeared on screen, and suddenly, Ranbir was just a boy (or was he trying to be low-key?).. And when Alizeh visits Saba’s home.. Anushka wasn’t half as sparkly as Aishwarya (or was she downplaying it too?)..
I loved the initial sequences in which Alizeh and Ayan bond with each other through their love for films too.. An actor and actress being an actor and actress.. They were soo good together.. and Lisa Haydon was a hoot!
I’m glad KJo is back.. I just wish he wouldn’t play the fatal disease card anymore though.. There are other ways of making people realise what’s precious.. Oh hell, it’s okay.. Atleast I’m still smiling through my tears 🙂
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Silambarasu Sivakurunathan
October 29, 2016
Quite surprised that Anushka Sharma’s performance wasn’t discussed in this review.
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P
October 29, 2016
“It’s about love being a literal weight on the chest (“dil ka bojh,” as our older films used to say) – this thought is shaped into a pair of magnificent echo moments. ”
The love being a weight on the chest moment that broke me. The second moment. When he realizes what exactly that means. Cause that is how love makes you behave na? Without shame. Without even awareness. You just feel. Like an idiot. Like a child. and you don’t give a damn who is watching or how it makes the other person feel.
Karan has learnt a lot from Imtiaz Ali indeed. Imtiaz has liberated people from needing perfection. That only if you are perfect and tick boxes A-Z do you deserve to love.
But unlike Imtiaz, Karan at his core sensibility is a major major pessimist. Where Imtiaz is able to have hope and love work it out on the strength of their convictions alone – even when the guy is a lorry driver/kidnapper or even when the girl is dead/dying, or even when the guy has left her to find himself and comes back after years- there is a positivity in the melancholy.
Karan is like a masochist. No. No one will be happy. Because no one deserves to be happy. You must only roil and hurt in love. Cause that is your fate. He is still afraid of that fire, but he’s not afraid to kill himself in it.
I mean I cannot ever imagine Imtiaz describing love as a tight slap on the face. I am glad Karan is liberated enough to display how he Really feels about these things, but I also am a little sad for him 😦
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varun
October 29, 2016
It helps that he’s paired with Anushka Sharma. What he shared with Deepika Padukone in Tamasha was chemistry. This is electricity, two young people juiced up by the prospect of hanging out…could you please elaborate on the comparison here?
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
October 29, 2016
BR : “Aishwarya Rai Bachchan, looking like an Urdu couplet herself”
Awesome stuff !
Buttresses your comment about her ‘Salaam’ in the teaser review.
Love the comparison with Casablanca. Long back when I first saw 1942 : A Love Story I thought we were finally going to enter Casablanca territory but alas……
There’s one scene where Monisha Koirala, the frame awash with a fine pink mist, looked positively ethereal when she first finds out her father is a closet freedom fighter.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
October 29, 2016
” (extremely good-looking star from a neighbouring country who cannot be named here because I do not have Rs. 5 crore to spare):”
DOFL !
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MANK
October 29, 2016
SPOILERS AHEAD
Great review Brangan, But i cant entirely agree with you. This is not a satisfying bridge, this is at its best an uneasy mix. It would have been even worse if it wasn’t for the stars especially Ranbir and Anushkha. The last half hour of the film is a testament of that . It practically drowns in melodrama and emotional excess- the kind of emotional manipulation that has been KJo’s trademark from KKHH onwards- , which is at odds with the rest of the film.and almost take the film down with it.And please, cant we find a better twist for the end other than one of the lovers having cancer harking back to Love story. . this is 2016 for god’s sake.. That entire final segment seems to be out of some other movie. KJo wants to have it both ways here., he wants to move forward and in to the more esoteric and extravagant Imtiaz ali territory, but he continues to be afraid to take it all the way , may be due to fear of commercial consequences or may be to put it bluntly, he just lacks the talent.
And dejavu is what comes to mind about Ranbir’s character. Its Rockstar +YJHD+ Tamasha, even some of the scenes are exactly the same. the scene where he runs away from aishwarya and lands on Anushkas door and begs her is copy cat of the scene where he lands outside deepika’s home begging in Tamasha. In Rockstar there he was singing in front of Shammi Kapoor, here he is singing in front of Shammi’s poster. Ranbir plays this character well – i mean very very well, some of his expressions are simply knockout – but i have reached the limit of these characters. I cant take any more of this cry baby man child becoming a mature artist post heartbreak and pain any further.
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Garvit Virendera Sharma
October 29, 2016
SPOILERS AHEAD
First of all,I can’t remember of the bench scene in the movie? Did I miss it ?Please somebody point it out?
This movie is so KJoesque and still manages to transgress so many conventions that we have of his stories and themes.As pointed out by Rangan,there is the usual cold distance from your father,pretentious existantial youthful enjoyment through club-hopping,jealousy and anguish of the “jab koi teesra aa jaata hai”, mood-destroying and even imploding the movie itself fear of looming death through cancer but there is a staunch discipline in staying with the theme of unrequited love and the objective of staying content in that city of dreamers which Alize is already a proud resident of.
When Anushka reincarnated as that bald I just wanted to run off the theatre and delete that scene right off my memory.But the movie didn’t take long to set the record straight.Ranvir did not turn a new leaf but returned to being that self-centred child immediately.They are the cutest bald people in the history of celluloid which is a great of greats addition to our tradition of melodrama.
When Ranvir asks of Anushka if she has consummated,people chuckled at his childishness while I adulated the creator on giving us such a heartfelt moment with a casual coyness to make it palatable for the audiences.And then the songs.Channa beliya,Bulleya and Ae Dil hai Mushkil’s lyrics were always pointing to the type of the movie we would be watching though no one would have anticipated the sweet sophistication but now that we have watched the movie,these have taken on a life of their own.
Finally,my appreciation cannot be complete without the “nain-michauli” in the dinner scene and the relief I felt when Fawad finally opened his lips to say “Avoid kar rahe the kya”,if only Johar would have been a seer and avoided him,he would have saved a lot of trouble.
Although,it’s meaningless but what has transpired with Karan Johar is truly shameful of not even the government but even the opposition parties in the country.
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MANK
October 29, 2016
SPOILERS AHEAD
Well on the positive side, i agree with much of what you have to say. the film maintains a terrific pace for about the first 2 hours the proceedings has a real zing to it.Ranbir and Anushka got on like a house of fire. you are right about the chemistry – electricity thing. as opposed to deepika in Tamasha where they are playing off each other , here with Anushka, both of them are performing like they they are one and the same actor.. . one begins and the other completes the emotion on screen. I havent seen this kind of electricity, this sync between the lead pair for a long time now. Watch their expressions when they first meet each other with their paramours. particularly loved the film song segments in the early half of the film, First when they are quizzing each other by singing songs and latter when they are acting out songs from chandni, if it was any other pair of actors, these scenes would have fallen flat.
And yes Aishwarya for once is really good one of the reasons is that she has a short role and it falls with in her comfort zone. the character of this dream women stays within her acting range. you are right,. the character is from a different era of hindi movies. this is the kind of full length role that Rekha used to pull off effortlessly in the 80’s.And SRK just killed it in that one scene appearance.
What i would say about this film is that its neither KJos best or the most courageous , but its his most intimate. The close ups are really close and tight for one The lead pair are the only characters that’s there on the screen for the first half of the film. no parents, no families, no friends,- apart from the brief appearances of their lovers early on- and that’s definitely a first for KJo. he carries it off really well up to a point. I only wish he had taken it all the way and the pay off was as good as the set up.
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brangan
October 29, 2016
MANK:
SPOILERS AHEAD
Actually, I did not find it excess melodrama at all. The plot twist is melodramatic, yes. But the way it is handled is so unlike the similar sections in Kal Ho Naa Ho. This is, again, filled with a lot of zing, and the actors completely keep cliche at bay.
But yes, I wish he’d found another way. But having chosen this way, I thought it was done pretty well.
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Rohit Sathish Nair
October 29, 2016
So which one is the more ‘finished’ or ‘polished’ product: KANK or ADHM?
Which is KJo’s best movie?
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Rohit Sathish Nair
October 29, 2016
Have only watched the worst stuff he does: the whole ‘birthday letters’ subplot of Kuch Kuch Hota Hai, Kajol’s London portions and Kareena’s Poo in K3G, the BlackBeast episode in KANK,plus the whole of MNIK and SOTY. Until two months back, I was like: “Why do people even bother about him?”. So frankly, the ADHM teaser was a surprise for me.
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Rishikesh
October 29, 2016
I think you are just picking one aspect and speaking on it. This feels more like a thesis than a review. Surprising that someone who has watched a lot of films like you, didn’t feel the lack of freshness. The plot keeps reminding us of Ranbir’s own films like Rockstar. The characterisation of leads were completely on expected lines and add to it tons of cliched moments. Detailing and logic may note be things Johar is keen on, but how could one overlook such an ordinary script that also seems part autobiographical.
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Anu Warrier
October 29, 2016
SPOILERS AHEAD
Lked your review just as much as I liked the film.
…because I don’t have 5 cr to spare.
I laughed at this, but does that goon have so much clout that newspapers can’t say ‘Fawad Khan’ or ‘Pakistan’ any more? So glad the Army has stepped up and said they don’t want extortion money.
ADHM was a wholly satisfying wedding banquet. It had the KJo staples, but it had something more this time, something that was more appealing than the three-handkerchief sob-fests he indulged in. I loved the laughter-amidst-the-tears, the controlled performances of the leads, and especially, that Anushka didn’t miraculously fall in love with Ranbir in the end. Just before dying, of course. I loved that at least one of the characters could just remain friends. Love her friend, but not be in love with him. I loved that Ash’s character could walk away from love because she wasn’t loved in return. I loved the juxtaposition of her character with that of Ranbir – in the same situation. Chemistry or electricity, all the leads had it, even Ash and Ranbir.
Above all, I loved that a woman in her forties, married and with a child, could successfully play a romantic lead with a much younger man – that’s one in the eye for her detractors. Who knew that KJo, that purveyor of pulp, would be the one to have mainstream Hindi Cinema grow up?
[From the looks of the theatre yesterday, it looks like KJo will have a blockbuster on his hands. Take that, Raj Thackeray.]
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Anu Warrier
October 29, 2016
SPOILERS AHEAD
And oh, I’m so glad he handled Anushka’s death scene the way he did – by leaving it to our imagination. In the similar scene in Kal Ho Na Ho, I was begging SRK to please die soon, or I was willing to kill him myself.
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MANK
October 29, 2016
—————————–SPOILERS AHEAD
Brangan, but the question is , wasn’t that twist bad enough to take you out of the movie?.it certainly took me out.
The unfolding of it is not KAL HO NA HO bad and thank god for that. And the actors soldiers on bravely. But it was so dishonest and against the nature of the film that he had set up. until that time, the events were flowing smoothly and organically and the characters were following the destiny set by the events. but the moment Anushka turns up with that bald head out of the blue, you know this is the director’s lazy and cowardly response to the challenge of finishing what he has so courageously started. even if the things are much more reined in and disciplined , the film had lost me from that point on
Now here i find a basic dishonesty in KJo’s filmmaking philosophy. As opposed to others like SLB who has appropriated a lot of elements from other filmmakers – like anurag kasyap – over the years , but is still very truthful to his craft and his vision. as evident in his last film BM. you like it or hate it, its very much his film and there is no mistaking.
KJo is just trying to appropriate the current hottest trend without a cohesive vision or thinking it fully through with just the holy grail of commercial success and critical acclaim in mind. As he did earlier with KHNH which was his attempt at appropriating the dil chahta hai ethos – which was the critical and pop cultural touchstone of the time – in to his style and falling flat. this again seems to be his attempt to appropriate the critically worshiped Imtiaz ali style of the present. its there in the initial scenes too, where they are acting out old songs which is copied directly from the Imtiaz ali lexicon. he just replaces them with his choice of Yashraj songs and they are very weakly constructed as opposed to IA films. its just works so well because of the actors and if it wasn’t for the actors, i think a lot of weaknesses of the film would have come to the fore.. then again , there is the fact that he is neither a gifted filmmaker or writer like SLB or Imtiaz..
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kalpeshjain22
October 29, 2016
SPOILERS AHEAD
Regarding the conversation thing -I felt the way Ranbir reacts to alizeh about her dying with “means!?dying means what?!”-that was so real in the otherwise dialoguey climax portion.
And I was pretty sure that you’d mention about his feminine side where he looks into the mirror.
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brangan
October 29, 2016
SPOILERS AHEAD
MANK: I find this much more ‘honest’ than what Zoya Akhtar does with desi-film tropes in films like ZNMD and DDD. Where Karan Johar stepped out of his comfort zone was, IMO, in Student of the Year. That was a fake film. Plus, I don’t teally see the dancing to old songs thing as Imtiaz Ali’s. Sooraj Barjatya got there long before. 🙂 Barjatya, with his MPK, is the true progenitor. I wrote about this somewhere. Forgot where.
Also, I find this much more “Indian” than Imtiaz Ali’s cinema. Not a judgement on either filmmaker. Just an observation.
P: But how can you say about the pessimist thing? This is the first such KJo film, no? All the earlier ones had happy endings.
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Anu Warrier
October 29, 2016
But it’s time to retire this man-child.
Don’t you think that is Ranbir himself? In a nutshell?
p.s. I also liked that there was no shameless manipulation of our tear-ducts this time around. 🙂
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JPhil
October 29, 2016
SPOILERS AHEAD
Thanks for that review, BR.
I found so much to like in this tale. I agree with your about the charm and wit of the Urdu laced dialogues and the chutzpah of the Hindi ones. I found the repetitive and self referencing Bollywood bits too jejune and some of the background music too intrusive.
But the whole tale is brilliantly tied together by masochism (as @P commented earlier) and woe,voguish sets and some spiffy performances.
I do wish however that KJo and his oppo Niranjan Iyengar will muster up a new disease for their future third acts:cancer survival rates continue to improve globally.Heart failure,renal failure,dementia all beckon… 🙂
Pity that KJo dished out 5 crores plus for having the temerity to hire He-who-will-not-be named for 10 mins screen time! Did the MNS not realise that another actor(Imran Abbas) from the same country plays Anoushka’s boyfriend? He probably has more screen time!!!
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brangan
October 29, 2016
SPOILERS AHEAD
JPhil: Was just wondering if that cancer thing was a self-reference too — as in, let’s go back to KHNH and do it properly this time around. I mean, there is so much other meta ness 😁
MANK: Also wanted to point out Agent Vinod, another “antakshari” movie. Homages abound in many directors…
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Shalini
October 29, 2016
SPOILERS AHEAD
I went into “Ae Dil Hai Mushkil” expecting and desiring pretty and the film delivered in abundance. I didn’t exit the film with any new or profound understanding of love or the human condition but since I wasn’t seeking that, I’m grateful Johar stuck to entertaining me. That the film provided many laughs along the way was a welcome surprise adding to my satisfaction.
@MANK – Agree with you about the whole cancer thing being lame and rendering the last 30 minutes something of a slog. Angst in KJo’s movie leaves me unmoved as it is, but Ranbir’s blubbering in the end scenes edged me towards contempt. And this may be my dislike of the song poking through, but I think “lag ja gale” has entered the realm of cliché in signifying the mortality of relationships.
@BR – Was thinking the same thing vis a vis the honesty of Johar’s “shallowness” versus Zoya Akhtar’s faux depth. Also agree on KJo’s astute (with the exception of “mujhse pheli se mohabbat”) and delightful employment of old desi songs, though I note that for all the lip service paid to the great artist, only one Rafi song was highlighted in the film. The musical nods also engendered a moment of acute musical mortification for me – I recognized the Tohfa song from the opening plonk of the xylophone. 😯
@Anu W – “Much younger man”? 42-year-old Ash is all of 8 years older than 34-year-old Ranbir who is 6 years older than 28-year-old Anushka. 🙂
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JPhil
October 29, 2016
SPOILERS AHEAD
Yes BR it did occur to me.
NI worked on KANK too and there was much ire between the producer and director about the way the movie shaped up. Yes ,there were many bits in this movie that seemed to say : this is how I do fatal illness. That notwithstanding I feel the public perception of cancer as this diagnosis of doom persists and is perpetuated by film like this . I say this with some hand wringing as a medic myself.
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Anu Warrier
October 29, 2016
Shalini, sweetheart, when Kareena Kapoor (at 36) is considered a cougar for playing the lead against Arjun Kapoor (31), Ash, with the 8 year difference with Ranbir, must be considered positively haggard, don’t you know? 🙂 Especially since she’s over 40. And the mother of a child!
I’m not talking personal viewpoint; I’m talking cinema and its unspoken rules.
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P
October 29, 2016
I think in the age discussion we must take screen age into consideration. Ranbir debuted in 2007. Anushka in 2008- so though they may have an age difference in REALITY on screen they don’t. Aishwarya first entered public consciousness with her Pepsi ad in 1993. Screen wise she’s around 15 years older than both Ranbir and Anushka.
So yea, lets keep that perspective and acknowledge that its bloody awesome that she’s gotten the sexy siren act to play (Thanks KARAN!) and has been accepted by our otherwise immature audience.
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sanjana
October 29, 2016
The way you approach the films is unique and unguessable. Seems most loved the movie.
Kjo made this film with so much love and he wanted to show it to us. Well, atlast he got his due. Poor big rich producer!
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P
October 29, 2016
BR: This is the first film where he’s gone all out, which is why I said that Imtiaz’s imperfections have given him the strength to showcase it fully where in most other films he would have tacked on a faux happy ending just to keep everyone happy.
But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t love roiling in pain. Anjali in KKHH spent almost a decade pining(not to forget Aman who got pain for no fault of his- poor Aman 😦 ). K3G mein love wala angle nahi tha but the Rohan-Rahul relationship was also adhoora for years. KANK toh don’t even ask. ugh. It was the worst. MNIK I refuse to watch but I’ve heard there’s a lot of pain and death in that one too.
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P
October 29, 2016
MANK: I agree with you that the last part was cliche, but Karan is always cliched. And it was a veryy very well-done cliche. It turned a lot of the tropes around on their head.
Plus if the rumours are true- the script is autobiographical and it wouldn’t do to show it ending with Alizeh again falling in love, and this time with a fake-accented hyper-botoxed “globe-trotting” singer/ TV show actor(or should I say over-actor 😉 to replace the mess that was Ali, now would it? 😉
Samajdhar ko ishara kafi hoga I am hoping 😉
PS: To the person who said Lag Ja Gale is a cliched over-used song- I have never heard it used before this. Aaj Jaane Ki zidd also I last heard in Monsoon wedding. Weird.
PPS: I watched it a second time today. Ranbir’s eyes are the bomb.
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P
October 29, 2016
He even referenced SRK in Saans from JTHJ for some reason. There was this shot of a french guy in a street smoking a cigarette just like SRK in the beginning of that song. KJo is difficult to figure out.
But he is still genuine about himself. Cannot stand Zoya.
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MANK
October 29, 2016
Rohit, For all its flaws , KANK is still KJo’s best .the rest ranges from considerably bad to worse .
Now by its very basic nature, KJo’s films have a big problem. The world he sets in his films is this big glossy higher than high society which i dont think exists anywhere even in the first world leave alone in India . Then he would entangle his characters in the kind of middle class values that even the most conservative of the middle class does not practice in our country. his K3G showcases this problem to the maximum. the kind who travels in choppers instead of cars, who has breakfast in LA, lunch in London and the evening poojas with their family in their ancestral home which is an exact replica of an European castle. The colors he uses for the production design and costume designs are eye poppingly garish . so once the setting itself is so artificial, its impossible to take any of these people who inhabit the world seriously, leave alone the emotional upheavals in their family or love life. the only way his films can work is as fantasy Kitsch mainly for an NRI audience and a urban upper class audience who knowingly want to live out these fantasies on screen. Any attempt at portraying real emotions or real relationships in this world is not only an exercise in futility , but it completely endangers the world itself. thats why in a lot of his films , the portrayal of complex relationships or the solutions for big emotional issues is laughably simplistic. the audience just go along with the ride completely understanding the schlocky nature of what they have been served
But in KANK, things are a little different, the world is still colorful and upper class, but there is a certain attempt at grounding them in reality and it works to an extend. sure there is still a lot of flab, lot of over the top eye candy , lot of unnecessary characters, but still it feels a lot more intimate and he gets through with his original idea that he has for the film – which is that you may have the best life partner and the best family who are the best people in the world ,But if you are not happy in a life together and you end up falling love with somebody else then its better to follow through with that relationship ,even if it means destroying the lifes of those good people. And unlike his mentor Yash chopra who chickened out and made a mess of the same subject matter in silsila, KJo does go all the way through with it. not only that he somehow manages to carry the characters backgrounds and their milieu along with it in telling that story .
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MANK
October 30, 2016
Brangan lets not bring Zoya in to this. she must be the most dishonest filmmaker in the world
I don’t teally see the dancing to old songs thing as Imtiaz Ali’s. Sooraj Barjatya got there long before.🙂 Barjatya, with his MPK
Come on i am not talking about that man. of course that has been done for ages as part of celebrations or family get togethers on screen
I am talking about protagonists imagining themselves to be characters from plays and films and acting out those scenes and fantasies as pioneered by Imtiaz Ali. like ranbir and anushka do here being dressed up as Rishi and sridevi from chandni and recreating the scenes .And honestly i am shocked you did not bring up the copycat nature of several scenes as done in Imtiaz ali films
Also, I find this much more “Indian” than Imtiaz Ali’s cinema. Not a judgement on either filmmaker. Just an observation.
Agreed. now thats one of the reasons this mix does not work for me entirely. because Imtiaz’s films are quirky,whimsical, unpredictable, layered, fractured. its where we have a punjabi song like heer to bad i sad hai, then the foll. song is chamak chooriyase . if deepika was to turn up with a bald head at the end of that film , i would have bought it immediately. Karan is a straight filmmaker (the pun is regretted), so its hard to take these out of the box twists that happens suddenly
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P
October 30, 2016
Also, there’s this club scene where Aish seduces Ranbir without a word. Reminded me so much of Deepika from Cocktail. Gorgeous women. Both Mangies. ❤
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NitinB (@Bh_Nitin89)
October 30, 2016
The movie was total crap. Ranbir overacts like hell. Anushka is playing herself again. Only Ash (in a small part) is decent. Johar has nothing to say as a filmmaker anymore. The sad part is that d so called critics of this generation r too scared(?) to speak honestly about his movies.
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Tom Traubert
October 30, 2016
Wow!
More than your review Branga, loved MANK’s fresh take (Only the first part) on your review.
For the first time after god know’s how many reviews, MANK breaks free and slips into his own being. Alas he doesn’t go all the way and slips into his “Being Baradwaj Rangan” mode by coming up with an equally long if not longer second review defending and patronizing Branga’s perspective of the film.
Perhaps due to fear of Branga’s disapproval of him or may be because he simply lacks the talent and belief to take it all the way.
Unchain the shackles Branga and anoint MANK as your spiritual successor already.
Regards
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Tom Traubert
October 30, 2016
Pun intended
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MANK
October 30, 2016
Anu, Punee, i dont think casting of Ash is such a big stretch. forget her age or screen age or whatever. for one Ash looks super hot , i mean super super hot and beautiful. secondly she is playing the rebound love , not his real love and someone he uses to repeatedly burn Anushka ,their relationship is completely based on sex and we see hardly any emotional connect . she is again portrayed as very cold – even with her ex husband who still carries a torch for her . And even though she seems to thaw when she breaks up, it only seems to provide a way out for Ranbir to get back with his true love. so this cliche of this sexy hot older women who provides a brief detour for the hero hurt in love is very much there. A combination of Mrs Robinson and Madam Bovary.
Punee, i dont know what should be a good ending for this movie, but it definitely wasn’t the one i saw .
And i dont think Shalini was insinuating about the over use of Lag ja gale in films but perhaps in pop culture , how it signifies the issue of mortality and Karan’s usage of it here was merely as a trick to manipulate the audience. i felt so too .
sorry Anu, i dont think Karan has completely given up his old ways. Can a Leopard ever change its spots 🙂
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Rohit Sathish Nair
October 30, 2016
So MNIK wasn’t bad on that count, it got its characters right, huh? How did he ever jump into SOTY then?
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P
October 30, 2016
Ye wala scene they re-created. Did you guys notice? I am quite surprised that Ash let it happen considering she refuses to even refer to Salman. Ever.
https://psv4.vk.me/c538119/u81824270/docs/8e4e25d0be4a/3.gif?extra=Rji6eHtqRsP-qtOX5kiOgkRSgtaATjA2ecbkxtmq-_km1ToOoVQX-6yfjhL9raIMydXHzMZuypHeYCDH75eFJlew_26uoygU8GxEOFk6
The Jab Tak Hai Jaan scene is this:
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dracarys
October 30, 2016
ADHM – felt like spiritual sequel to KANK with some many of the scenes from the latter thrown in the former especially the dinner scene with all the principle roles involved!
a bit lengthy melodramatic movie which is , business as usual, by Johar/Chopra standards.
That RK applying mehndi at AS and FK’s marriage and making a pallu out of the pagdi – and add to that RK crying (aka display feminine characteristics) – plus AS and ARB displying more ‘male’ characteristics…- i almost felt like KJ made a movie out of his life!!!
all in all – an average movie with excellent soundtrack!
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Madan
October 30, 2016
MANK, while I agree broadly with your summing up of KANK, I still intensely disliked the film. I am not going to say KJ’s films have no heart. Maybe they do but they just exist in a world that’s not mine and which I don’t understand. Their problems and their priorities and even their way of expressing themselves is all very different. The closest I came to liking a KJ film was the first half and even a little past that of KKHH. But there too, as seems to be the case often for KJ, he didn’t wrap up the film in a satisfying way to put it mildly. Anyhow, I am going today because memsaab ko dekhna hai and I generally end up liking films when I go in with ultra low expectations so maybe that will be the case today as well. But as long as she likes it, I will consider this Diwali afternoon well spent.
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Dhanda Soru
October 30, 2016
No review of “Shivaay” yet?
P.S: Eagerly awaiting your review of “Kaththi Sandai”. Ungalikku torture, adhu engalukku magizhchi 😛
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Deepak
October 30, 2016
It was definitely a much, much better than his regular oeuvre, he showed a lot of maturity and a lot of restraint for once in many scenes, but, (and as Phoebe Buffay once said, it’s either but or butter) that ending showed how lacking in confidence Johar is that this would work and he just copped to the standard 3rd act melodramatic ending just for a bit of emotional manipulation. Loved most of the film, hated the ending.
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Deepak
October 30, 2016
I forgot to add, (Spoiler alert), this is basically Rockstar with much better acting and a bit more commercial value.
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brangan
October 30, 2016
dracarys: and add to that RK crying (aka display feminine characteristics)
Crying is displaying ‘feminine characteristics’? You must be a very macho man indeed.
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Ajay
October 30, 2016
@Rangan
Why no reviews of kashmora and kodi . Are you not reviewing Tamil films for Hindu?
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Rahul
October 30, 2016
Whats with all the spoiler alerts ? Does it matter in this kind of a movie ?
I saw all the plot twists coming from a mile away , but still – I liked the movie.
I have read in a review that Aish’s character was not very believable. I think that was the whole point of it. The nature of their meeting and the affair, and also meeting her ex – husband only to have a highly awkward conversation about unrequited love were so surreal that if Anushka hadn’t met Ash I was wondering if Ranbir had imagined the whole sequence in his head to convince him to go on with his love, and to make Anushka jealous.
A major part of the movie is about what goes on in Ranbir’s head, and I really liked the fact that after he fell in love, Karan has done away with almost all supporting cast. I am really thankful that I did not have to see a wisecracking friend, or a terminally ill grandparent. It is like, the movie is shot inside the solipsistic mind of an unrequited lover, so he just sees what is important to him.
As I saw it, this was a concept movie about unrequited love. The plot , and the ending etc, are not the point of the movie. To me, it did not matter.
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P
October 30, 2016
dracarys: of course its about Karan’s life. Thats what all the rumours out here are saying. You just have to guess who’s playing who 😉 RK has made it clear in multiple interviews that he’s playing Karan.
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brangan
October 30, 2016
P: Haven’t heard these rumours. Now you’ve got me curious 🙂 So who’s supposed to playing whom now?
Rahul: It is like, the movie is shot inside the solipsistic mind of an unrequited lover, so he just sees what is important to him.
That’s a fantastic take. Thanks.
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Madan
October 30, 2016
Nah, close but no cigar. I agree with you and MANK as well that I see this as KJ getting into Imtiaz Ali territory. The problem is he can’t resist bringing in age old masala tropes and there he parts way with Ali. Imtiaz Ali’s films are unconventional as well as organic. As MANK put it, he’s hopped onto the bandwagon (rather late in the day) but doesn’t have the confidence to go the whole hog. The first half was simply rollicking, rip roaring…kind of like a better acted out redo of Love Aaj Kal. Where the rapport between DP and Saif Ali Khan was practically non existent, Ranbir Kapoor and Anushka Sharma played off each other brilliantly. But pretty soon after RK becomes jilted lover, the movie descended into Vaazhvey Maayam territory and eventually morphed into Keladi Kanmani (a film which KJ drew from for KKHH imo). Wonder why RK didn’t also make a self referential quip about Bollywood’s affair with cancer for the love of God. The mismatch in tone between the first half and the second was hard to accept for me, made more difficult by an overwrought BGM.
Speaking of masala tropes, I thought that having gone into the question of unrequited love, KJ had the opportunity to thus revamp the masala movie for today’s times and there were some unexpectedly good touches like the cornucopia of cactus plants shown as RK becomes a pop sensation. But as usual, the resolution was messy and exceedingly affected. I wonder if KJ is the sort of person who cannot listen to more than a line of vintage Bollywood lyrics without tearing up; at least that’s how it comes across in his films. Again, the contrast between the mocking-of-old Bolly in the first half, which was brilliantly enacted by the lead pair, and the return to those very kind of themes in a dead serious tone in the second half was too jarring and did not work for me. All in all, goes down as an opportunity missed.
Oh, one thing or rather performer I came back with more favourable impressions than before was Arijit’s vocals. If you’ve seen that Sonu Nigam-Johnny Lever clip where they create a yawning genre for Hemant Kumar and Adnan Sami, I think Arijit belongs in that select category. Or rather, thought. I really enjoyed his songs in this film, though that annoying mumbling remains intact in places.
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Madan
October 30, 2016
“a bit lengthy melodramatic movie which is , business as usual, by Johar/Chopra standards.” – Oh believe me this is far more digestible than Daag. Daag was the ultimate. Just reading the plot summary on wiki is so much fun…NOT! KJ is trying alright but Bolly has grown up a lot in the last few years and a film like this shows just how much as it makes KJ look old fashioned and out of touch with the times. He is unable to commit completely to the new no holds barred ethos though he tries gamely at first and his old touchie-feelie self strikes back with a vengeance and drags down the film in the end.
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P
October 30, 2016
BR: I actually want to work in this industry so I won’t say more directly 😉 (sar kat jayega 😛 ) you can guess my guesses from my comment to MANK about the ending 😛 If you are updated with all the latest goss you should know who mean 😛
“Plus if the rumours are true- the script is autobiographical and it wouldn’t do to show it ending with Alizeh again falling in love, and this time with a fake-accented hyper-botoxed “globe-trotting” singer/ TV show actor(or should I say over-actor😉 to replace the mess that was Ali, now would it?😉”
Alizeh meets Ayan when she’s already in love with someone she’s obsessed about as a teenager- “meri tabaahi”- that person doesn’t love her the way she loves him- all out passionate and mad. She’s not so good-looking but is excessively self-confident, sarcastic, witty, intelligent and helps Ayan embrace his inner filmy keeda and stop being “cool” for the sake of impressing others! Hmm, who could that be? 😛
Ayan then rebounds with a not so successful, not seriously taken but breathtakingly beautiful person.
Ok, ab aur zyada nahi 😛
Rahul: Really superb take. Superb. Yes, I do not understand people’s malicious and malevolent cribbing. (Not you MANK, you are generous even in your cribbing :* )
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P
October 30, 2016
FYI. Wow. Delicate egos ka jungal ho gaya hai ye desh. Feminists, fascists, fans- kis kis ko khush rakhein? urgh.
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Madan
October 30, 2016
“kis kis ko khush rakhein?” – That evokes for this Rafi fan the notoriously narcissistic Kisko Pyaar Karoon. I hope they aren’t serious about the protest but then apna desh mein you never know. :0 By the way, even hardcore old Bolly buffs associate Rafi with melancholy. I attended a program by well highly proficient amateur singers which they dedicated to Rafi and Mukesh and they did only the rona-dhona songs of Rafi, not one song from Evening in Paris, not even Raat Ke Humsafar. Later, upon asking, I learnt that they believed Rafi was mainly about sad songs. They knew all his songs and still thought so. I may not (and do not) agree but this is the public perception as of today.
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P
October 30, 2016
@Madan:
“I wonder if KJ is the sort of person who cannot listen to more than a line of vintage Bollywood lyrics without tearing up; at least that’s how it comes across in his films. ”
Doesn’t everybody? I mean….
“Again, the contrast between the mocking-of-old Bolly in the first half, which was brilliantly enacted by the lead pair, and the return to those very kind of themes in a dead serious tone in the second half was too jarring and did not work for me. ”
Were they mocking it or being fangirls about it?
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Dracarys
October 30, 2016
Brangan: I just wanted to avoid typing more on the crying part!😂
Anyway, when Lisa cheats on him, and he gets to know about AS’ condition in last act, observe his behavior against that of AS! She was so damn cool and he was a drama queen!
ARB and FK are absolutely wasted! Her poetry is so hilarious and comical after rounds of alcohol! 😆
Also, ARB and jealous husband, SRK”s scene is straight out of Woody Allen’s Vicky Christina and Barcelona with RK playing Scarlett Johansson, ARB playing Javier Bardem and SRK playing Penelope Cruz! Notice the role reversals?!🤔
Who wouldn’t have loved a desi threesome!!?😉
Furthermore FK’ role is an extended act of John Abraham from KANK! Maybe inspired!!
Now the running theory is that AS role is based on Tina aka Twinkle Khanna about heart break, etc part… now go figure!
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Anu Warrier
October 30, 2016
MANK, I don’t quite agree that Ash is the clichéd ‘hot older woman’. For one, unlike other ‘older woman teaches younger man love’ , Ash’s Saba is not a bucket case herself. She’s a very well-adjusted, well-settled, content with her life, person. ‘Happily divorced’ as she says, there’s no bitterness in her, she’s up for a relationship without commitment, and is willing to walk away from the man she’s fallen in love with, when she realises he doesn’t love her. That’s a unique woman. I doubt there have been many women characters with that strength, certainly not in contemporary cinema, certainly not in mainstream cinema. And to get that woman from KJo, to me, that’s great.
As Shalini says, Ranbir’s character did irritate me. I wouldn’t think much of my child if he whined so much; why would I put up with it in a man I love? (Actually, I can’t see myself falling in love with such a character; I thought Alizeh had him pegged right – a baby without a pram.
Despite all its flaws, and I’m sure lots of people have lots of reasons to not like the film, I liked the film and I did enjoy the 2.5 hours I spent on it.
BR, Ranbir’s character is based on Karan; I don’t know who the women are supposed to represent. He has mentioned his unrequited love a couple of times, without naming the person.
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Madan
October 30, 2016
@P: If you are saying what I think you’re saying, I would say Fawad Khan’s beard in this film holds a big clue. 😛
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Madan
October 30, 2016
…but, on the thread of innuendo, I hear this breathtakingly beautiful person has now got a new goat and the goat’s rivals perhaps cannot express their gratitude to her adequately in words. 😛 So where does that leave Ayan? Dobara dhokha! 😛
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Anu Warrier
October 30, 2016
P, you can’t resist taking a potshot at’feminists’, can you?
That aside, I share your disdain for this hyper-sensitivity.
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MANK
October 30, 2016
Punee, I do pride myself of being tuned in to all the latest gossip, but your signals are extremely hard to decode and it’s killing me dear. Who the hell is this over botoxed over accented guy?
Now assuming Ayan is KJ, the only woman that I had heard of him having a crush is Twinkle khanna, now she does fit in to the witty sarcastic, not very beautiful mould. but she is married to AK, he is over botoxed and over accented for sure, but he is not a globe trotting singer by any long shot.
Now who is this not so prominent but breathtakingly beautiful rebound. Can’t thInk of anyone . Because we hardly ever heard of him being linked with women
Now I am sorry for insinuating this, but I can’t help it, are these two by any chance men?😀
God, the suspense is killing me, please help me out here ma belle soeur .😃
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brangan
October 30, 2016
P: I agree. They didn’t seem mocking at all, just intensely in tune with (and in love with) a particular kind of cinema. It never felt mean-spirited to me.
About the tearing up at vintage lyrics, I wonder about that too. Because some of us are clearly fans of old music and get intensely nostalgic. But maybe the cool kids today don’t? I mean, I looked at some of the other reviews, and there was barely a mention about the songs and the bang-on lyric placement and how awesomely entertaining it was. (I mean, ‘ek se do, do se chaar’ at the radiation clinic. Marvellous!)
Okay, you have to stop being coy and tell us now. Your clues aren’t helping. Please. Or at least send me an email 😀
MANK: 1. KHNH had Lillette Dubey enacting a scene from Jism long before Imtiaz. I’m not saying Karan was not influenced by Imtiaz, but I don’t see an exclusivity here. And 2. What did you thinking about the filmmaking. Was speaking to a friend today and we were talking about how sensational some of the blocking was. That triangular scene between Anushka, Fawad and Ranbir – you got all permutations of twosomes. And there was so much energy in the staging and cutting. It was like a Mani Ratnam scene. Have never seen KJo do anything like this before.
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P
October 30, 2016
@Anu: I did not post the link to the feminists bitter whine cause I thought everyone had read the multiple thought pieces by people who now watch KKHH ironically eyeroll but here goes anyway: http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2016/10/28/what-are-ae-dil-hai-mushkils-women-smoking-in-the-film-no-seri/
I never say a word I don’t mean. I meant what I said and here’s proof. All these people are the same. Some have the power to ban and others just whine.
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Shantesh Row
October 31, 2016
The songs are referenced from Yashraj. The dialogues are referenced from KJo’s earlier flicks. The scenes are referenced from Imtiaz. The let’s-get-someone-dead is referenced from KHNH. Even the man-child’s name is referenced from Ayan Mukerji. I swear in some scenes I hallucinated and ‘saw Konkana walkin with Ektara playing in the background, Deepika saunter in from Jaipur to Corsica as Kabira cried in the underlay and SRK do the exact same pained expression as he did with Preity Zinta in KANK. Ye film tha mushkil. Sorry, just my two cents and lost Rs 350.
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P
October 31, 2016
BR: Ek baat bataun, our generation (I am a millenial myself) bas bahar se cool hai. We all love Lag Jaa Gale yaar. I spent the latter half of Friday night staying up till 5 am at the office Diwali party listening to an older colleague (with all the other young colleagues in attendance) belt out senti b&w numbers one after the other.
I even started crying when I listened to this father-daughter number which I don’t remember the name of.
We of course started the night dancing to “cool” “I like cheap thrills” type music and then moved on to Jumme Chumma De De like good old “Grew up on SRK screaming MADAN CHOPDDAAA” filmis 😉
MANK: Re: The who’s who, you need to switch around a few of the sexes and sexualities. Who is the wittiest intelligentest sarcastic-est person our poor-lil rich boy knows? The rumours have swirled for years baba….
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Anu Warrier
October 31, 2016
Ah, thanks for that one. I had read it. I didn’t think it was a whine, either, actually. Her opinion. Is as valid as yours or mine. And if she felt the women were regressive, then so be it. I thought she was over analysing the film, and did want to ask what she was smoking. 🙂 But eh, whatever.
BR, I thought of all those nods to films as being a fan of a certain sort of cinema, myself. I definitely didn’t see ‘mocking’. In fact, Anushka has a line where she says she’s a child of Bollywood. Karan is very clear that he loves his Hindi cinema, the masala kind, and that’s an honesty I find endearing – especially for a SoBo kid.
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Silverambrosia
October 31, 2016
SPOILERS
Really enjoyed the movie! Easily the best Karan Johar movie I’ve seen. I was very engaged the whole way through. I also thought the film by and large steered clear of narrative cliches. E.g. was pleasantly surprised and tickled by Alizeh’s faking an emergency to land the plane..just as I thought this was going to be an awful end to a very good movie.
Karan takes a lot of flak for supposedly catering to NRI audiences. He has protested that from day one that was never his aim or intention, and I totally believe him. His films have nothing to do with the diaspora experience (very diverse and varied as such experiences have been), and I would be quite surprised if members of the Indian diaspora actually found personal resonance in these stories. He simply likes pretty people and pretty places and takes pleasure in depicting the lives of these fancifully situated individuals. This did not undermine the movie for me. Where I would distinguish it from earlier KJo cringefests is the quality of the writing, impressive dialogues and poetry and very good performances from all the leads. Apart from this movie, MNIK is the closest I’ve ever come to liking a Karan Johar movie. That also had very good performances and a very sweet first half; with the movie derailing in the second half. Haven’t seen KANK.
Things don’t always have to be personally relatable or even ‘realistic’ for them to work and be effective on screen. Aishwarya’s poetry spouting character for instance. In real life, if you met someone rendering couplet after couplet within the first 5 minutes of a first meeting they would come of as eccentric at best and pretension show-offs at worst. But on screen, she comes across as talented and sophisticated, and quite worldly (poet or not, and not withstanding the vulnerability she later exhibits). It is implied that, like Ayan, her heartbreak has destroyed past innocence. The lines exchanged between Saba and her husband were pretty damn good.It’s a romantic idea; the notion of one-sided unrequited love being love in one of its most powerful forms, even though I don’t necessarily see it that way. In an earlier Karan Johar movie, Ayan would not be this angry, spurned, frustrated lover…and the rawness and genuineness with which this anger and resentment was depicted seemed a welcome departure from past KJO films, where the hero would have looked benignly on, mouthing saccharine lines, hiding his grief, and sacrificing his love for his beloved. Not to say that isn’t admirable, but it was never very admirably executed in Karan’s past films (in my opinion).
Ranbir’s character Ayan (in the 1st half) was very cute; he retained a bit of that cuteness in the 2nd half as well, despite becoming hardened. I initially disliked Alizeh a lot. In the 1st hald hour she came off as extremely self-righteous, presumptious and just appallingly rude. She was meant to be seen as this spunky, outspoken, perceptive girl. She was just obnoxious; I only came to think of her as a nice person in the second half. Lisa’s red wine wine should have been directed at her face and not her dress. The Lisa character was actually quite cute with her whole ‘vaatavaran’ talk, and practiced greeting, and Dr. Faisal was a nice fellow. Pity they had to be depicted as cheats, just so they could be effectively discarded as per the requirements of the narrative. This was one weakness I found in the movie, resorting to the stereotypical gold digger (in a long line of ‘Mona Darlings’) and the seeming nice guy/inner creep characterisation.
I found a lot to like in the movie as a whole. Several of the comic moments worked pretty well. I probably understand the term ‘melodrama’ in the wrong way, but for me, if something works it’s not really melodrama. The scenes near the end, where they badly fall out and he comes to apologize the next day were all effective. Whether or not it was relatable, they elicited no eye-rolling from me. A very impressive script from Karan and some very good performances from the cast, especially Ranbir.
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adhmIfIm15
October 31, 2016
“Agreed. now thats one of the reasons this mix does not work for me entirely. because Imtiaz’s films are quirky,whimsical, unpredictable, layered, fractured. its where we have a punjabi song like heer to bad i sad hai, then the foll. song is chamak chooriyase . if deepika was to turn up with a bald head at the end of that film , i would have bought it immediately. ”
MANK, that made me laugh! I agree – the Tamasha callbacks were insane in this film and Imtiaz Ali is a truly quirky writer/director whose honesty I can buy. Karan’s idea of romance still seems like that of a teenager. Like if I were 15, I might find depth in this friendship/romance.
Karan’s obsession with friendship also makes me think this script is quite autobiographical. The whole thing makes a lot more sense if it is the story of one sided love of a guy who’s fallen for another guy, who cannot reciprocate cos he’s not built that way or does not love him back. Hence, a lifelong friendship.
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Rohit Sathish Nair
October 31, 2016
Are you taking a break like you did last December, sir?
‘how sensational some of the blocking was. That triangular scene between Anushka, Fawad and Ranbir – you got all permutations of twosomes. And there was so much energy in the staging and cutting. It was like a Mani Ratnam scene. Have never seen KJo do anything like this before.’
You mean the scene where Fawad and Ranbir fight, shown in the teaser?
Is it possible that we can get an exact idea about how well-made a movie could be, just by its teaser? ADHM did give me some kind of a vibe
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Shalini
October 31, 2016
Okay, so I thought the “Rafi sang less, cried more” quip was a clever reference to Rafi’s “main zindagi mein hardam rota hi raha hoon” song from Barsaat. No?
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Saurabh Sharma
October 31, 2016
http://www.rediff.com/movies/report/no-double-role-no-infidelity-kjo-sets-the-record-straight/20160830.htm
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Madan
October 31, 2016
@ P/BR: Eh, just because I like vintage Hindi songs doesn’t mean I am going to tear up before they barely get started. What would be the fun of that, how would I be able to appreciate Rafi saab’s inflections, the orchestra etc if I am too busy crying? To use another example, maybe in the very last scene of Mausam (Gulzar) I felt overcome by emotion but if I had been crying throughout the film, how would I have been able to watch it? With KJ, it seems like he wants you to switch on that cry mode; he doesn’t give you the choice. Every or nearly every scene is constructed to induce tears (once he gets into that mode in the second half). At least that’s how it comes across to me. If you handle every setback in that overwrought way, then the film loses any semblance of contours and it becomes one long procession of rona-dhona. I was not alone in feeling so; I could see the audience getting restless in the last half an hour or so. We were all like, “Karan, seedhe point pe aao na, ghar jaana hai, mithai khaana hai.” 😀
And again, when I used the word mocking, I didn’t say it was in a mean-spirited way. Mocking means simply mocking. OK, I mean it was something like how uber-romantic or sad Ilayaraja songs like Poongatru Thirumba or Poguthey Poguthey were used in Goundamani/Venniradai Murthy comedy sequences (or maybe even Santhanam scenes, I am not just totally up to speed in this case so no comments there). Like taking an earnest, serious song and placing it in a very light hearted or funny context. That was definitely going on in the first half, like that tacky-super tacky 80s portion. But from there to the second half where the contexts where the songs are used start to resemble those of the original films themselves was difficult to accept for me. I am not saying the idea itself would be bad but it just wasn’t executed well enough. Like how they are dancing to RD hits and then suddenly Kal Ho Na Ho comes along and Alizeh becomes downcast. That was very contrived (and also typical KJ).
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Aran
October 31, 2016
ADHM was basically “Mujhse pehla sa Karan Johar mere viewer naa maang” :p But it isn’t KJo’s fault really. The movie felt like Karan’s lament that the Bollywood he loves and revels in – the richly-mounted romantic sagas of the 80s and 90s, the Yash Chopra and Nasir Hussain kind of love stories – they just aren’t made anymore. And poor Karan is lost among this new wave of love stories that are all about being cool and selfish and ultra-urban. They’re about comparing heartbreak to thumping a moderately heavy pot on your chest, not about showing the devastation that losing your love can bring. You lose the one you love and you find a rebound Ash. And then you send pictures of this ethereal creature back to your love to try to make her jealous. Love is now all as easy and convenient and mindless as all that. Who has the time to pine. And poor Karan is trying to get with the times rather than make the kind of movies he loves and respects. So how can it work for him?
That is why I think the only time the movie worked for me was when it was trying to sell me nostalgia with all the old movie references, which imo were done really well. God knows that neither Anushka, nor Ranbir or Ash could sell me either their being in love or their heartbreak. The closest I felt anything for a character was with Anushka’s sensibility and her understanding of the value of friendship in her life, and her critique of Ranbir’s type of love.
So the only way this movie works for me is by seeing Karan Johar and his type of film-making as Anushka’s character, and Imtiaz Ali & Co.’s sensibility as Ranbir’s. It felt satisfying when Anushka dissed him in the dinner scene as a baby without a pram, where she sees the shallowness of his love and calls him on it. I almost wondered whether Karan Johar wanted the audience to read this kind of difference of approaches to film-making into the movie and the characters, but then I don’t think KJo is capable of thinking that deeply. 😀
Not going to talk about the last half hour. Just, ugh.
Also, who in the world says something like “tumne uske saath sex kiya hai?” — In. Those. Exact. Words. Seriously, who talks like that?
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Aditya (Gradwolf)
October 31, 2016
It’s enjoyable to see people struggling with P’s admittedly complicated blind items!
Accented globe-trotting singer/actor is now lead of a major American TV series. Get it? Get it? I was not able to tell Anushka is SRK or Twinkle 😛 Twinkle I guess. But no idea about the breathtakingly good looking person.
But on more serious things (!), I agree with BR about the filmmaking aspects. I mean, I did not expect KJo to do something as simple and straightforward as that mirror reflection in the tube station scene. I was like wow this is definitely not KJo of old.
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scramyouidiots
October 31, 2016
Ugh. Was this whitewashing of this awful ,awful movie necessary? Pretty stupid to expect more from blog of the film reviewer for The Hindu, i suppose. Well, i guess the only thing that’s left is yet another interview of the intellectual Kiran Nagorkar, and for Baradwaj Rangan to return his national award to protest rising intolerance.
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Madan
October 31, 2016
“His films have nothing to do with the diaspora experience” – I intended to bring this up and now that you mention it…ostensibly Ayan is a UK born desi. So I literally know zero people from my age group or younger who have grown up entirely in UK/US/Aus/Can etc and are completely steeped in Bollywood culture. If I asked my ‘NRI’ cousins to speak in Hindi/Tamil they would not sound very different from that Lisa Haydon character. And what’s wrong with that, they are English/American citizens. KJ’s self confessed quirk of being a Bollywood junkie in SoBo when surrounded by classmates who only ‘did’ English does not work so well when transposed to UK. But I haven’t even begun taking the film apart at that level. I just accepted the characters for what they are at face value without questioning whether such people actually exist (technically, maybe, practically, almost zero chance).
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Madan
October 31, 2016
“the Yash Chopra and Nasir Hussain kind of love stories – they just aren’t made anymore.” – But when has KJ ever made something like Hum Kisise Kum Nahin anyway? And who else has lately? You need a light touch to make a film like that which seems to encompass the entire kaleidoscope of emotions and still entertains you while it lasts and KJ’s films are pretty heavy going. Oh, and for all that Ayan longs to be Mohd Rafi, even well past it Rafi was more poignant on Kya Hua Tera Wada than Sleepijit. Therein lies a tale: KJ ASPIRES to be like the golden era filmmakers, aspires for his films to have soundtracks like HKKN aur isi aspiration ke beech train choot gayi. At least Imtiaz Ali has his own vision for better or worse and is with it.
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rnjbond
October 31, 2016
Just saw the film today and really enjoyed it overall and great review here. But how about that last half hour? I thought it was poorly written and poorly handled and it put a bit of a damper on the film for me.
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P
October 31, 2016
@Anu: Then I guess the protesting Md Rafi fans and Raj Thackarey’s opinion is also as valid as yours and mine 😉 Unko bas newspaper mein poison pen se likhne ka mauka nahi milta.
@Aditya: Alizeh is NOT Twinkle. Nice that you got the rest 😉
@Aran: Some lovely thoughts there. Thanks! 🙂
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MANK
October 31, 2016
Punee, ab bahut kuch samajh mein aa gaya hai, both the witty intelligent dost and globe trotting star 🙂
Ab yeh samjhadho ki yeh breathtaking rebounder kaun hai?, pleeeeez
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Tina
October 31, 2016
Oh god oh god. I am in lov with Karan. http://youtu.be/wbusJEuxQHc
Esp around 32.00 33.00 where he talks about ‘intervals’.
And he talks about his decision to make soty. I hated the move, but t makes so much sense now.
I am not a big fan of his movies….but I watch them all and have even shed tears for them all…but. Most of all, I love the ‘Karan’ that gets projected through his public appearances and interviews. Grounded. Genuine. Which I assume is SUPER hard, given the industry.
Big big big fan girl of K Jo.
As for the movie, I really think practically speaking its hard to friend zone someone looking like ranbir kapoor…esp when they show genuine love. But that could very well be just me.
I got entertained. Paisa vasool.
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P
October 31, 2016
MANK email de do. Mera naukri chala jayega 😉
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Saurabh Sharma
October 31, 2016
Punee, but SRK was already married when he met Karan.. if Alizeh is srk..
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Aneek
October 31, 2016
when will KJO stop this nonsense about love and friendship ?its been a long time!!!
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MANK
October 31, 2016
punee, hamara email aapke paas hai. 🙂 i had commented on your blog with emailid on your mastani review, woh chalega na?
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MANK
October 31, 2016
Brangan, i mentioned about the filmmaking in my early post. I thought it was very intimate and bursting with life. to top that the technique was very smooth and invisible. He had gotten ridden of all that showy round trolley\dolly\ shots , thank god for that – i love those kind of shots when people who knows how to do it properly uses them like Brian de palma , but Karan uses them just to give us a full view of his designer set and costumes on the actors.-, photography here looked very organic to me for the most part. Not like the manipulative camera work of freeze slo mo to heighten a corny emotional moment or invent an non existent one that he does often in the past
And again the close ups this time are very tight and are framed for the emotional truth. not like earlier, where the framing was just to enhance the beauty of the actors or the fabric of their clothes.
And its funny that you mention Manirathnam, what came to mind when i was watching those close ups was Thalapathi, especially in that early scene where we have them both drunk and sitting in front of the Tedha LOVE lights and she is reminiscing about her past love. That was exquisitely framed. And i have never seen him shuffle the camera angles as well as he does here. just take that scene where Ranbir and Lisa meets with AS and Dr Fasal (whatever his name was). the fun and the pace of the scene is accelerated by the way how he shifts the angles between the couples – as their banter gets ugly- form the beginning to the end of the scene, just like MR and (and gotta say this ) Imtiaz ali does. 🙂 . Also i liked how it is echoed in a latter scene when AS comes to visit Ash and RK in their home
And yes about the blocking too , that triangular scene between RK, FK and AS was very well blocked. to show that how RK was the intruder in their lives and not FK. he is in the middle of the whole scene, except for the end – when AS sides with FK and lets RK go- you see him at the edge of the screen. this is echoed in a very similar latter scene between Ash , SRK and RK . Here its same situation, ayan , his love and her ex , but this time the POV is different. SRK is the outsider intruding in to their space. i liked how that whole scene is shot too.
Now here again, i would say this quality of the filmmaking goes for a toss in the last half hour. of course the story almost comes to a stand still at this point and AS being sick and all that. one could argue that the technique should serve the story . but i do feel that in this segment, he went back to his overtly manipulative film making. i could see the change in his tactics , the moment RK runs away from Ash , how it goes on and on , you get a hint that he is getting back to his old ways. Perhaps so was the scene were the seem to argue for the last time about love and friendship an dhow she cannot love him the way she wants him to. i did feel it was extremely belabored and manipulative. But i was really irritated by that point in the film, so i dont know for sure whether i was reacting to the content or technique or both.
i do have a feeling this collaborators, especially Anil Mehta reined in KJo a lot on this film, or perhaps he wanted himself to be reined in by them for this film, as this was a different kind of film from his earlier ones. i imagine, he was willing to listen to them a lot more rather than pushing through with his regular agenda. Mehta must have got his way a lot with the framing and blocking this time around. Of course one can only speculate , only they would know for sure.
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P
October 31, 2016
@Saurabh: Heard of cinematic license…woh bhi to koi cheez hoti hai! uff.
@MANK: I didn’t save your email then…maybe will grub around on the site and check.
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Deepak Jeswal
October 31, 2016
‘The whole thing makes a lot more sense if it is the story of one sided love of a guy who’s fallen for another guy, who cannot reciprocate cos he’s not built that way or does not love him back. Hence, a lifelong friendship.’
That would be the Rishi Kapoor-Ronit Roy track from SOTY. Ending with ‘maybe next life’.
Maybe this film is an extension of that thought?
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Deepak Jeswal
October 31, 2016
P – need more clues for the breathtaking rebound. Couldn’t guess.
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Garvit Sharma
October 31, 2016
“Our generation bas bahar se kool hai”. Isnt this the exact sentiment Karan Johar has been trying to delineate through his maha-irritating uber cool fashion obsessed characters down the years. In KKHH, we have Rahul instantly floored by temple-going Tina which leads to Anjali leaving it all behind.His characters live in this certain materialistic-consumerist way but its not all the life they desire consciously or unconsiously.
I have learnt to see these characters as the refinement of the pathetic NRIs of Manoj Kumar movies. Who is Karan of K3G if not a modern Manoj Kumar who not only brings his family together but also rekindles nationalistic fervour in England. Again we have Poo here playing a female Rahul of KKHH who instantly seeks courtship of Karan on learning about his true origins,intentions and objectives. The difference being that while Manoj Kumar was sort of a prophet to the sinners of materialism, KJo’s Manoj Kumar is a comfortable consumerist himself but is acutely aware of the emotional appetite(“Dil ka Pet”) that can only be fulfilled by love of aashiqui, dosti and family. Just remember the scene where Alizeh is feeling suffocated by her love after seeing Ali and Ayan inquires if he can arrange a private jet for her.For Ayan,this juxtaposition is a foreboding of the ache that he will feel because of this relationship.He would achieve all the success he has dreamt of,will be ready to mould himself as anyone who Alizeh loves but still will have to learn to be content with fer friendship which Alizeh anoints as something more than just camarederie.She anoints Ayan as her “Khandaan” ,her family the most important institution in Kjo’s or any other eastern philosophical thought.
Coming to think of his previous works, Karan Johar would have easily taken the fight to Raj Thackeray and other nuts by just cutting out clips from his previous movies on social media. KJo, himself, has been no laggard in exploiting nationalism. Be it defeat of Johnny Lever in KKHH, Rahul making his way to his Anjalis on “Raghupati Raghav Raja Ram” and the national anthem in K3G.
Shahrukh again has been really smart here.From “surgical strike” to “PM’s Diwali for Soldiers”, he has been punctual in sharing his messages through social media. Lets keep fingers crossed on how it plays out for “Raees”.
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Anu Warrier
October 31, 2016
Then I guess the protesting Md Rafi fans and Raj Thackarey’s opinion is also as valid as yours and mine😉 Unko bas newspaper mein poison pen se likhne ka mauka nahi milta.
You don’t really get the difference between a private opinion, even if shared on a public platform, and political expediency, do you? As far as I’m concerned the woman in Huffington Post – your pejorative ‘feminist’, if you will – holds equally strong opinions as you do, only on the other side. If you blogged about ADHM, you would be raving where she’s ranting. Same difference. If BR had posted something similar, would that be a ‘feminist whine’?
I do think it’s time you grew up beyond a different opinion being ‘poison pen’. I get that you go into raptures about films you like. Fair enough. But pulling down someone else because they hate a movie with the same fervour that you like it, is rather ridiculous, don’t you think?
Where Thackeray and his goons are concerned, if he felt the movie was anti-national, hey, his issue. I don’t agree with it, but I’ll defend his right to think that way. Even if he had stuck to tweeting it, or posting it on FB or whatever social media is du jour, that’s his opinion, and he’s entitled to it. Yes, it is as valid as yours or mine.
But when he uses the power of his political office, and harnesses the strength of his goons to threaten people and public property, and extort money from the makers on the strength of his ‘opinion’, then matters change very quickly. And if you think Raj Thackeray ko ‘newspaper mein poison pen se likhne ka mauka nahin milta’, you’ve got to be kidding me. He can write, and write well, should he choose to do so. And if he did, there’s not a newspaper in the land that would not have carried his article.
Also, please don’t make the mistake of thinking that Raj Thackeray actually believes that ADHM is anti-national because… Fawad Khan. He doesn’t give a damn. Not about Fawad Khan, not about KJo, and certainly not about ‘nationalism’ – pro or anti. All he cares about is milking the opportunity for political benefit.
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Anu Warrier
October 31, 2016
Madan, I know a whole bunch of young people here, who would probably talk Hindi like Lisa Haydon, who are steeped in the Bollywood ethos. I don’t see Indians like them in India anymore, but here in the US, the preparations for Diwali and Karva Chauth and Puja and Christmas are pretty much like the Chopra-Johar movies. I would hazard a guess that it is the Chopra-Johar clans (and their imitators) who are responsible for it as well.
Also, I find a lot of [one of] my social circles more ‘Indian’ (in the KJo mould) than I do my friends and family in India. Seriously. KJo may be milking the NRI stereotype, but believe me, like every stereotype, the kernel is true.
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Madan
October 31, 2016
@ Anu Warrier: When I say steeped in the Bollywood ethos, I don’t mean imitating YRF/Dharma productions for their Diwali/Karva Chauth preps. I mean referencing Bollywood songs for every conceivable situation and, yes, being fluent in Hindi, the way both Ayan and Alizeh are shown to be capable of. Since I have not met a single person in their twenties who meets both conditions (well, apart from being a UK/US bred desi!), I find it really hard to believe. From what I have seen, born in USA/UK desis may have a passing interest in Bollywood and especially SRK and YRF but it’s not the ONLY thing they watch/listen to, far from it. Since the duo aren’t shown referencing any Brit culture even once, it would suggest that they are oblivious to it which is stretching credibility. Perhaps, introducing some background, like a family and friends circle comprised entirely of desis, would have helped set the context but as some other reviews pointed out, we only get a caricature album shot of their parents and nothing more.
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Anu Warrier
October 31, 2016
Madan, in the movie, is Alizeh born in Britain? I thought not. I could be wrong. I bought into Ayan referencing Hindi songs since he’s fond of music and wants to be the next Mohammed Rafi. As for either of them watching/listening to only Bollywood, I was fine with them being so, perhaps because I know two younglings here who are similar. I mean, I’m sure they watch/listen to US pop culture, but I see them in Indian gatherings, and Hindi films seem to be their point of reference for everything. I have great fun listening to them talk because they refer to songs/films that were made before they were born – heck, before I was born! So yes, there are people like them. [And yes, they seem to talk in ‘dialogue’ as well, when they switch to Hindi.]
The fluent in Hindi part is dissonant, I agree, especially for Ayan. I guess I’m not looking for ‘realism’ in Johar’s movies, so hey, fine. 🙂
we only get a caricature album shot of their parents and nothing more.
The poor guy cannot win, can he? 🙂 If he showed the family, he would be excoriated for making another of his usual films; when he doesn’t, he’s panned for not having any background to his characters.
I get what you’re saying, believe me, and I agree with it to some extent as well, but I’m thinking that someone so Bollywood-mad (and there are plenty of that type here in the NE of US) wouldn’t need their parents to influence them; like most younglings who have a passion, they’re going to source their Bollywood fix however they can.
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Madan
October 31, 2016
Raj was just the khanda for BJP to fire the gun at KJ while telling the public that they have not denied visas to Pak artists. Plausible denial is the name of the game. Also feeding the odd issue to MNS keeps it from dying completely and thus also keeps SS in check. Oru kalula rendu maanga and publicity for KJ (at a price). Public bhi yeda banke peda khaata hai.
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Madan
October 31, 2016
Anu: You’re right that it is not confirmed anywhere that Alizeh is UK-born. But what is even more unbelievable is the shayra who also tells Ayan in the airport that she is UK born IIRC. Aur khambakt aisi urdu bolti hai jo mere khopdi ke upar se gaya. Again, I am not ruling out the possibility. I just don’t find it very credible. But now that you say you do know two younglings who talk about Hindi films all the time, it’s become a bit easier to buy. In my circles, if at all any Bollywood is referenced, it’s usually Rahman and YRF/Dharma, not 70s and 80s, no chance. While it is definitely possible, technologically speaking, to seek out the music you like from whatever era (I should know as a classic prog rock addict), it is only a small minority who get that deeply involved in music. Now that you mention it, the fact that Ayan is indeed interested in music and goes on to become a singer at least allows for that possibility. Still curious about Alizeh and Saba.
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Garvit Sharma
October 31, 2016
I see no conflict in how Ranbir and Anushka consistently reference old Bollywood songs. Anushka’s character comes from an elite Lucknow family and is therefore, if you may put it as stereotypical,depicted as being fluent in Urdu.She literally loves music as a maniac in the manifestation of a DJ Ali.
On the other hand,Ayan dreams to be a singer in Hindi,and therefore can be safely assumed is religiously consuming Rafi and Mukesh or hits of 80s.As I remember,his vocabulary gets laced in Urdu after meeting Saba and reading her collection of couplets.In the first half its Anushka who is doing most of the dialogue-baazi educating Ayan in the ways of love and its side-effects
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Aran
October 31, 2016
“KJ ASPIRES to be like the golden era filmmakers, aspires for his films to have soundtracks like HKKN aur isi aspiration ke beech train choot gayi.”
Madan, quite true. Which is why I said he laments the passing of the era of the kind of film-making he likes and revels in. Sadly, he hasn’t quite been able to actually make those kinds of films. He really doesn’t have what it takes. KKHH and K3G were attempts at trying to get to that well of feeling, but now Bollywood has moved away from those kinds of movies. Now it’s all about either underplaying every damn thing, or going all out over the top and going through the motions of heartbreak.
P, Thank you. 🙂
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Sabah
October 31, 2016
My take: the movie was extremely boring and unimpressive! I don’t know how I sat through this agony! It strikes me how people are all praises about it! I even asked myself why I didn’t see the beauty others are describing! I have to admit how powerful the media can be! I went to see this movie because of all the buzz around it, but I ended up NOT being entertained at all!
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Anu Warrier
October 31, 2016
Madan, one thing I’ve noticed about many people here – they tend to speak their language very well indeed. Even first /second generation youngsters. Have some Lucknowi friends here who speak beautiful Urdu. All of them! My Tamil /Mallu/Telugu friends all teach their kids their native languages.
With Saba, born and brought up in the UK perhaps, but she’s a poet, is she not? If she wants to write in Urdu, it stands to reason she would learn the language. I mean, she would really have to know it fluently, to write poetry, no? And she would have to know not the colloquial Urdu, but the literary one. My experience with poets is that they then tend to talk in a slightly more literary language even in normal conversation.
I grinned at your reaction to the high-flown Urdu. I loved it. But then, I liked the film, and was not looking for Cinema (TM) when I went to see it; I went willing to be entertained, and I was. shrug I’m not going to defend this as high art or the best thing to come out of the Hindi industry, but will unashamedly confess to liking every bit of it.
Part of the disdain towards Johar’s films is, I think, the contempt many people seem to hold him in. (This, by the way, is not addressed at or to you, Madan. 🙂 ) I see that in comments about his sexuality, in assumptions about his intellect, etc. It appears that that is then directed at his films as well.
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Madan
October 31, 2016
“On the other hand,Ayan dreams to be a singer in Hindi,and therefore can be safely assumed is religiously consuming Rafi and Mukesh or hits of 80s” – That I get but the quality as well as flavour of Hindi he speaks, I don’t. Not only is it fluent, it is also easy and casual. That is much harder to get unless your circle has always had a lot of desis (who in turn also speak Hindi rather than English). This COULD have been explained for the sake of plausibility. Again, the references are more elusive if you are ONLY listening to the songs and become more natural when you are also regularly watching Hindi programs in general, be they movies or TV shows (esp the stand up comic acts who mimic Bollywood a lot). As for Alizeh, yes, she has family in Lucknow but they don’t say she grew up there. One of my cousin sisters grew up in UK and got married (to a Caucasian Brit) in T Nagar, Chennai but she can’t speak a word of Tamil whereas her parents are very fluent in Tamil having grown up in Chennai and also quite religious. To go back to what Anu said, I get speaking like Lisa Haydon but being interested in Bollywood but I don’t get speaking more or less exactly like a regular Mumbai/Delhi bro whilst growing up in London. How does that work? I actually suspect the Lisa Haydon character was KJ’s way of getting back at those in his SoBo circles who had once mocked him for being a Bollywood buff because I don’t believe an NRI in UK would get mocked for not speaking in or understanding Hindi/Urdu and I would think anybody who does that to be pretty uppity.
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Madan
October 31, 2016
“I even asked myself why I didn’t see the beauty others are describing!” – You must have never watched or heard about KJ’s films then or surely you’d have realised that this is ultra-luxury wala beauty, not the grungy beauty of 70s New York as depicted in French Connection. 🙂 THAT’s a film.
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Shrabonti Bagchi
October 31, 2016
Well, yes, I hear you on the old-world dialogue — but that worked in certain old-world settings because it was a different kind of world of single-minded love and devotion and pretty much unambiguous in its separation of ‘love’ and ‘sex’ and ‘romance’ and ‘friendship’. It’s completely anachronistic in today’s world, where young people are blurring those lines every single moment. Like, what is that stupid compartmentalisation between ‘love’ and ‘friendship’ that Anushka keeps harping on? Does ANYbody believe in those kind of artificial boundaries anymore? And I’m not being cynical here — those boundaries simply don’t exist once you’ve broken out of the shackles of conventional society, which our privileged avante garde lot in this film seem to have done pretty thoroughly. She doesn’t want to sleep with him to keep the friendship “pure” or whatever, even though she wanted to sleep with him in their first meeting? And that is set up as some kind glorious beautiful theme in this film? Get real for once, Kjo. Bleh.
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P
October 31, 2016
Anu: I specifically in my first comment referencing feminists said : kis kis ko khush karein. This is not about who has the “clout” to enforce bans or not. Its that everyone wants Karan to make the film or do the things that THEY want.
People trying to make a point judge it from all sorts of random lenses. I live in Bombay. I know that Raj Thackarey doesn’t give a damn about Fawad Khan and this is all just a way for him to score a point politically. I find the feminists no different. They are also using an easy target to score an absolutely unrelated point politically. The former gets visibility, the latter gets backpats on social media. Which if one thinks about it is basically the same thing. Especially considering that targeting a rich fat cat film-maker is the easiest way to get that like button clicking.
Ultimately a film-maker must be judged from within his universe. In his universe these things happen. You don’t identify with them sure. But you probably won’t be able to identify with KJo himself- the actual real person because his life is waaaay different from anything that we lead. Honestly I am tired of realistic films. Please stay in reality and look out of your ghar ka window if you want to see real people, why force a film-maker to fit into your tight little box? I go to films to see what an artist recreates of those aspects of reality that he finds worthy of rumination.
Sure, the lady in question has every right to her opinion. As does Raj Thackarey. And I have EVERY RIGHT to critique it. I will not criticize opinions ONLY if they are a matter of life and death.
And with that I am done on this topic.
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P
October 31, 2016
“If BR had posted something similar, would that be a ‘feminist whine’?”
How is this valid? And yes, I have in fact criticized BR on the Udta Punjab thread if I remember right. It was a different topic though.
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Madan
October 31, 2016
“they tend to speak their language very well indeed.” – Then that is a revelation for me and I am happy to have learnt something new from this exchange. It is possible that these are people who are much more attached to/protective of their Indianness while my relatives have been more willing to follow the adage of when in Rome, do as the Romans do. In any case we Tambrams get a lot of flak for being obsessed with English and maybe this phenomenon gets accentuated abroad.
And re Saba, I didn’t mind the Urdu. I was just astonished at all that vocab she displayed; basically my reaction was the same as that line which Ayan says that do you guys prepare your ripostes beforehand (and that part, I really liked 😉 ).
Re KJ, I can’t comment on the rest of India but there is always a simmering suburb-SoBo rivalry in Mumbai and KJ being the guy who tried to marry, figuratively and literally, the high flying lifestyle he lives and loves with Indian ‘values’ gets a lot of flak for it. A kind of this rich guy can’t understand our problems attitude. There are nasty jokes about his sexuality, yes, but I don’t think people hold that against him when it comes to his films. It’s the combination of excessive sentimentality and designer outfits that I think a certain generation of Mumbaiites have never liked. I hope none of them are lurking on the thread but… in one of my earlier org, a SoBo based guy was gifted a watch at his farewell party and he proceeded to give a mini speech about why he thought a watch was special. I couldn’t help but wonder ki why all this formality, just say a big thank you yaar, it is awesome and get done with it (the party was over dinnertime in a restaurant and not in office premises). Ironically, in this film, KJ has brought some of that casual Mumbai flavour in the first half; only it’s Londonites and not Mumbaiites who are talking that way…in a film that derives its title from a classic song about life in Mumbai, as relevant now as it was then.
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P
October 31, 2016
Anu: As to your comment on me presuming that I think all disagreeing opinions are of the poison pen variety, wrong again, cause MANK and I disagreed and fought over Bajirao Mastani like cats and dogs but I would never call him that.
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Madan
October 31, 2016
“She doesn’t want to sleep with him to keep the friendship “pure” or whatever, even though she wanted to sleep with him in their first meeting? ” – Well caught. And so the holes in this film grow bigger and bigger. Rather than a blend, it was a juxtaposition of Imtiaz and good ol’/bad ol’ KJ with the Channa Mereya song acting as the bridge. More or less same situation depicted in this super blade-o-blade song from Kadhal Rojave:
Point being, we thought we had banished these songs/situations. Emotion and all is fine if it is fresh/authentic, not if it’s cliched beyond the point of redemption.
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brangan
October 31, 2016
Shrabonti Bagchi: I’m a little flabbergasted by your comment: “Like, what is that stupid compartmentalisation between ‘love’ and ‘friendship’ that Anushka keeps harping on?”
Yes, maybe in life some kinds of friendships so turn into love, but surely it’s not a stretch that some people see some friends as only “friends.”
In the first meeting, Alizeh wanted to sleep with Ayan because she was attracted to him — it was a club, and one does do these things. But that meeting flopped, and slowly, she began to know him, and once he transformed from an “object” to a “person,” she began to think of him as a friend and only a friend. Is this really such an implausible thing?
And no, she does not want to ‘not sleep with him’ to keep the friendship “pure.” It’s because she no longer feels that way about him. She now feels he is “family,” and that, to her, is greater than the other kind of love. And she’s like “why can’t you be happy with the kind of love this relationship has? It’s a great thing.”
Which is why, for me, one of the most devastating lines was when Ayan says, “Mujhe woh DJ Ali wala pyar chahiye.” He’s like “Fuck family. I want you to love me the way you love that Ali fellow.”
I can get that the film did not work for you. But the narrative “reasons” for the love/friendship thing are rock-solid.
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P
October 31, 2016
WOW BR. That was my favorite line too. Now DJ Ali is not in your life. Give that love to me. Just perfect. Perfect.
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Madan
October 31, 2016
“But that meeting flopped, and slowly, she began to know him, and once he transformed from an “object” to a “person,” she began to think of him as a friend and only a friend. Is this really such an implausible thing?” – Would a person who is open to casual sex sanctify non-romantic relations as ‘beyond sex’ (with the implication that sex is dirty)? Say in that scene towards the end when Ayan tries to draw near Alizeh, now suffering from cancer, if she had at least been momentarily induced into a kiss and then suddenly remembering, pulled out of it, it would be more plausible. The point is sexual attraction existed at one stage; it’s not like she NEVER regarded him in that way. Come to think of it, it’s equally as implausible that Ayan is so madly in love with a girl who made full kachra of his kissing.
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Anu Warrier
October 31, 2016
Shrabonti, but isn’t there a compartmentalisation between ‘love’ and ‘friendship’? I mean, I have to be friends with the man I love, even if he’s not my ‘best friend in all the world’. I even love my friends of the opposite sex, but I’m not in love with them, nor do I want to sleep with them. That’s not keeping the friendship ‘pure’, that was not wanting to lose a great friendship if/when the relationship goes south. I valued their friendship more than I wanted to give in to my attraction to them. (I’m talking pre-marriage, of course.)
I can absolutely understand Alizeh’s need to NOT sleep with him once she wants him to be her friend, initial attraction or not. (Besides, didn’t her attraction for him wane in the initial meeting itself?) I can totally understand Ayan wanting something more than just friendship; he wants her to feel the passion that he feels for her. Different shades of love.
@P: Unlike Raj Thackeray, the woman in Huffington Post has nothing to gain from bashing KJo’s film. I would wager that if it had been an Imitiaz Ali (or insert filmmaker of your choice here) film, she would have felt the same way; it’s the characters that bothered her. Critiquing an opinion is fine; I disagree with her as well. But there’s no reason to be nasty; or for the pejorative ‘poison pen’ (which means something completely different anyway). But, peace. I’m out on this as well.
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brangan
October 31, 2016
Madan: Would a person who is open to casual sex sanctify non-romantic relations as ‘beyond sex’ (with the implication that sex is dirty)?
No. That is not what is being said at all. She’s not saying, “Oh, if we have sex, this pavitra bandhan will be spoilt.” She’s simply saying, “I don’t feel that way about you anymore.”
She was attracted to him when he was just a body in a bar. Now she knows him. He’s a PERSON now. She’s gotten close to him. And the kind of friendship she now feels for him is set up by the line “pyaar mein junoon hai, dosti mein sukoon hai.” That’s how she feels towards him.
With Ali, she wants to fall into bed. That’s the junoon. With Ayan, she wants to sit by the fireside and wrap a blanket around them and just talk. This is the sukoon.
The “asexual” nature of her feelings towards him go to the extent that she can have him drape a sari around her and not feel a thing. Had Ali draped this sari, she’d have felt something — it is a fairly intimate thing, after all.
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Madan
October 31, 2016
“That is not what is being said at all.” – At all? I am not so sure. There is a part where she tells Ayan that he is now a part of her family (the word used is khandaan) and he belongs in an even more special place than that Ali-wala pyaar. So there is a dissonance here. Besides, love itself is a mixture of sexual attraction and friendship. Pure sexual attraction is just an infatuation but the word used is pyaar. So her telling him that he is even more special than somebody she might want to make love with comes across as an attempt at assuaging his feelings at best. There is another point which somebody else also mentioned; Ayan asking her angrily if she had sex with Ali in those very words. Bro, that train left the station a long time ago. Either this is the old KJ meshing jarringly with the Imtiaz-wala version or he was just trying to pander to fans of his older films while also wanting to be with it. Maybe he wanted to give a message to those who, in his opinion, treat relationships casually about what it means to have deep feelings for another but the execution left a lot to be desired. Just how does a guy go from boasting about having Lisa as a date to getting all righteously angry that his true love had sex with Ali?
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brangan
October 31, 2016
Madan: It appears that we think very, very differently about all this, but just wanted to address this last thing.
Just how does a guy go from boasting about having Lisa as a date to getting all righteously angry that his true love had sex with Ali?
(1) Because these are two very different things and not even connected. You can want to boast about having sex with a hot woman. But it’s not necessary that you’re going to be okay with the woman you are in love with is probably having sex with a hot man.
(2) Because, he was not “in love with” Lisa. And he is “in love with” Alizeh.
(3) Because people aren’t programmed automatons who say “If I say or feel or so this at one point in my life, then that’s what I will say/feel/do forever.” Being contradictory is very much part of being human.
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Shalini
October 31, 2016
@Anu “…but isn’t there a compartmentalisation between ‘love’ and ‘friendship’?”
Actually, I don’t think Alizeh is compartmentalizing/segregating love and friendship. She’s saying that friendship is a form of love (indeed, for her the highest). It’s that whole “pyar ko pyar hi rehne do koi naam na do” thing. 🙂
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Anu Warrier
October 31, 2016
Madan, So her telling him that he is even more special than somebody she might want to make love with comes across as an attempt at assuaging his feelings at best.
Can I womansplain that to you a little bit? 🙂 Seriously, from a woman’s point of view, what do you do with a guy whom you like a lot, even love a lot, but have no sexual attraction for, at all? Especially when it’s clear that he wants more than you’re willing to give? No one says Alizeh is not being selfish here. She wants to keep him as a friend; she’s not willing to give him what he wants (because she can’t) just to keep that friendship.
As for Ayan, his questioning her is rhetorical; he’s not expecting an answer, nor does she give him one. It’s his childishness, if you will. Or his double standards. (Or both?) He’s used both Lisa and Saba to make Alizeh jealous. (He’s picked Lisa online just to prove that his GF is ‘hotter’ than her family-approved beau. He sends Saba’s photographs to Alizeh just to show her that he can score with a ‘hot’ woman.) Because he’s jealous of Ali and of Alizeh’s relationship with Ali. And it hurts him – almost physically – to realise that she must have had sex with Ali.
In short, both characters are human. 🙂
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brangan
October 31, 2016
Shalini: wrt to your example, I am glad you are finally beginning to see the light 😀
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Madan
October 31, 2016
“But it’s not necessary that you’re going to be okay with the woman you are in love with is probably having sex with a hot man.” – But if both parties know they started out from a casual fling at some stage, would the guy not at least check himself even if he got angry? How can he judge her for having sex with some other guy when he knows they both have done it in the past? It is one thing if they were both in a romantic relationship but if he has already been turned down by her and she has asked that they be friends instead, just how does he even feel entitled to ask her that? In real life, I would imagine asking such a question would lead to a breakdown of the friendship itself as well. Again, the until then straight up no nonsense Alizeh is shown as sparing his feelings. I get that people can be contradictory but how much of it is showing a person as being contradictory for realism and how much just a lack of internal consistency in the world the filmmaker has created?
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Anu Warrier
October 31, 2016
Shalini, yup, you got it. I was just addressing Shrabonti’s point. In the context of the film, Alizeh is making a differentiation between the Ali-wala pyaar and what she feels for Ayan. In fact, she does love Ayan; she tells him as much even. Just not the love he’s looking for.
Funnily enough, a [male] friend just said that recently, explaining a friendship – Is rishte ko koi naam mat do. I tend to agree. It just is.
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Anu Warrier
October 31, 2016
would the guy not at least check himself even if he got angry?
I don’t think Ayan is contradictory at all. He is not very grown-up, no? He’s the baby without a pram. He wants what he wants. His characterisation is consistent within the context of the film, is it not? He’s an entitled brat, and insists on his love being requited – even at the end, when she’s telling him quite clearly. It’s only when she leaves that he finally understands.
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Madan
October 31, 2016
“No one says Alizeh is not being selfish here.”- The problem is KJ himself doesn’t say she is selfish. We are led to sympathise more with Alizeh because Ayan is the pramless baby or whatever that expression was. I think this is why people, including self, are having problems with this separation of friendship and love. A friendship is supposed to be unconditional and unselfish but this friendship isn’t if I go by your interpretation. Again, more background about Alizeh’s family support or lack of it would have helped make sense of why she turns to, of all people, a guy she considers a pampered brat for support when she’s out of moves. Thinking about it in this light, the movie would have made much more sense with an alternative ending that did not involve Alizeh dying of cancer and seeking his support to get her through. Friends may not kiss and make up after a fight, but they still have to patch up and there is a distinct lack of patch ups in this friendship.
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Madan
October 31, 2016
“He is not very grown-up, no?” – And how does a man child handle dating somebody casually? Doesn’t that require him to understand that he cannot expect too much out of this relationship?
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Anu Warrier
October 31, 2016
But she is, no? She’s selfish and judgemental and opinionated and all that. But she’s also fun to be with, and she does care for him in her own way, and she’s the one who’s taught him so much… I thought it was an incredibly complex character, and I was impressed to find someone like her in a mainstream film. I also thought that was reflected very well, without beating us on the head with it. They are, both of them, what they are.
Which friendship is unconditional and unselfish? Other than in KJo’s movies? 🙂 We all have our agenda; we all have some amount of selfishness involved in our relationships. If we are honest, we would admit that. Whether it’s because we give something to our friendships, or because we get something from them.
Alizeh gets something from her friendship with Ayan – a support system she doesn’t have. So does Ayan, or why would he hang out with a woman who’s told him quite frankly that she sees him as nothing but a friend? Of course it is dysfunctional; it’s meant to be.
Alizeh’s parents’ lack of support is mentioned – by her, by Ali… she says when Ayan finally calls her in Lucknow that her parents have thrown her out because she chose to marry Ali; when Ali meets Ayan in Vienna (or wherever) he mentions that Alizeh has left him, but she hasn’t gone back to her parents. So when he waits for her, and she’s got no one else to turn to, why wouldn’t she turn to the man who she considers more than family?
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Anu Warrier
October 31, 2016
Doesn’t that require him to understand that he cannot expect too much out of this relationship?
Interesting as this discussion is turning out to be (and I didn’t think I would think so deeply about a KJo film!), I think we’re blocking BR’s comment space. 🙂
To answer your question, no, he doesn’t understand because he isn’t grown up enough to do that. He’s adult physically, but he’s quite immature. So he dates casually; then he decides he loves Alizeh; I’m not even sure he understands the concept really, at that point. So what he wants from his relationship with Alizeh is what he thinks ‘love’ is supposed to be‘; he really cannot comprehend that she changed her mind a) about sleeping with him b) that she doesn’t love him (really, really love him, I mean) when she’s perfectly happy to spend her time with him.
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Anamika
October 31, 2016
I enjoyed everyone’s analysis of the movie on this post. None of that actually came across while actually watching it though because RK and AS have acted like this before and it felt rehashed. At one point I was just bored and this was before halftime. Lisa Haydon was fun to watch but why was Alizeh so mean to her?
Aishwarya Rai (who I have never ever liked in any movie before) was great. I don’t recall her mentioning she was born British. She could be a naturalized citizen and that can justify her language skills. Her instant flirting avatar was relatable. The SRK bit forced. What if there was no love lost between Tahir and Saba and perhaps a friendship of convenience existed – she could sell her poetry in his art cirlces. Now that would have matched her personality. I guess I wanted some genuine selfishness and that is where KJo flops every time.
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P
October 31, 2016
“How can he judge her for having sex with some other guy when he knows they both have done it in the past?”I
Arre. Pyar main aisa hi hota hai. I slapped someone for something like this. And it still rankles. And honestly in Ayan’s case, at that point of time he still had not acknowledged that he loved her, even to himself. So he just spits out the most stupid things that come to his mind “he’s gonna leave you”, “you want to be mrs DJ Ali” “I can’t come to your wedding” “you slept with him na?” etc
“It is one thing if they were both in a romantic relationship but if he has already been turned down by her and she has asked that they be friends instead, just how does he even feel entitled to ask her that?”
Because if you love someone and if you share everything with them you just say whatever is the first thing that comes to your mind. And your mind is not a Gandhian saint always taking the higher path.
“In real life, I would imagine asking such a question would lead to a breakdown of the friendship itself as well.”
Yeah, it breaks down. But then if you are that good friends you alway go back. Its effed up I know but you cannot explain some things rationally.
“Again, the until then straight up no nonsense Alizeh is shown as sparing his feelings. I get that people can be contradictory but how much of it is showing a person as being contradictory for realism and how much just a lack of internal consistency in the world the filmmaker has created?”
There are people like this- at least in my generation. For a lot of people the straight-talking is a mask for their real feelings. People do something called “Ghosting”- where you just stop replying and talking to a person because you would rather not have an adult conversation and end it decently. Arre lots of nonsense shit we do.
I am surprised that Karan’s got these nuances correct. I heard him say in some interviews that he hangs out a lot with the youngsters in his office and has learnt their ways/lingo/attitude- good job on that….
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P
October 31, 2016
@Shrabonti: Wow. Some people don’t want to sleep with friends not because they are prudes but because no matter how modern you are or how many shackles you’ve broken, having sex effs things up in an ALREADY EXISTING RELATIONSHIP. Mostly irrevocably.
Whatever friendship Ayan and Alizeh shared would go down the drain completely if she had pity-sex with him.
He himself says that I don’t want to just have sex with you. I want you to love me the way I love you. The way you love DJ Ali. Give me that.
So sure, she was once attracted to him. He’s probably the only guy who will have sex with her now that she’s a cancer ridden close-to-dead body, but. BUT. BUT. what she will give him is just a fake fleeting meaningless intertwining of bodies, and though he really wants it now, he will hate that it happened once it happens.
What he had with Saba for example was just good chemistry. And that was great. No harm, no foul. But even Sabah pushed him away once her feelings got involved.
Because nobody wants to hurt their hearts or the hearts of those they love just so their body feels good for what- 5 mins? (by Indian male standards 😉 )
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Shalini
October 31, 2016
@ Anu – Really think Alizeh was being selfish in regards to her friendship w/Ayan? I think she was demonstrating integrity. Ayan basically says to her “pal bhar ke liye tu mujhe pyar kar le, jhootha hi sahi” [aside: how awesome would it have been if all of the movie’s dialogues had been old film songs 🙂 ]. To which she responds by saying she won’t lie/compromise just to retain his friendship. She’s dying, frail, and will be alone if he leaves, but she doesn’t give in to his or her weakness. It was an extraordinary display of character and the moment when I loved her the most in the movie.
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An Jo
October 31, 2016
Karan’s idea of poverty, as I alluded to somewhere, is a kid working extra hours and sweating to pay for his Ducati while his idea of wealthy is the same kid graduating to driving a Lamborghini after completing his MBA as SOTY: Be that as it may, I am not too concerned with it: [Just as one can accuse Ramu or Kashyap of excelling ONLY in dark corridors of the heart and mind.] And it’s on full display here. The trouble is when he tries to tread on Imtiaz’s territory and tries to find depth, and he struggles, and how! The ‘दिल का दर्द; दिल टूटा नहीं’ idea is a direct lift from Ali’s [not DJ’s] ‘Rockstar.’ Ayan sings pathetically and butchers Burman’s ‘गाता रहे मेरा दिल’ from GUIDE and Alizeh retorts saying he sings so badly since he has hardly experienced heart-break; a direct throw-back to Kumud Mishra’s advice to Ranbir in Rockstar
about becoming a great musician only when one’s heart is torn to shreds. ‘Urdu’ and Faiz Ahmed Faiz are used here just as mere instruments of exoticism. Ayan invites Alizeh to the woman’s house he is sleeping with who, of course, happens to be the poetess Aishwarya’s Saba just to make her ‘jealous’ that he has landed a prize ‘better’ than Alizeh! Noor Jehan’s rendition of Faiz’s ‘मुझ से पहली सी मुहब्बत मेरे महबूब ना माँग
मैने समझा था के तू है तो दरख़शां है हयात’ is playing in the background: And we are supposed to be convinced that Saba is a ‘deep’ person, who literally dances like a stripper in a club in one of the previous scenes –and no, this isn’t a sexist comment but a marker to the confusion in Karan’s mind— when she meets Ranbir after her first encounter with him. I am NOT trying to be judgmental here by expecting a शायरा to be someone clothed from head to foot in a burkha. It’s just that KJo’s attempt at wedding modernity with traditions and ‘depth’ is so exasperatingly vacuous here that it boggles the mind. [Just imagine Amitabh after reciting मैं पल दो पल का शायर हूँ jumping onto a dance-floor gyrating sexually to a Sex Pistol’s number, and you get the drift]. This is not DEDH ISHQIYA where the entire movie was soaked with Lucknowi तहज़ीब: Here, exoticism is used merely as a tool and the artificiality seeps through to the audience. So afraid Karan is of alienating the ‘it’ crowd that he doesn’t even use the originals of the many Hindi oldies but resorts to using the remixed versions!
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MANK
October 31, 2016
Brangan, let me ask you something, purely on cinematic terms, which did you find more convincing?
Rani’s inability to love Abhishek in Kank or Anushka’s inability to love Ranbir here .
Now I do hope you get my drift here, because I feel – I am sure you do too – that AS-RK-FK triangle is an extension of the RM-AB-SRK triangle there?
Again to make a Comparison with Imtiaz Ali, how do you view love-friendship confusion portrayed here stack up to the one shown in his world – Love aaj Lal, tamasha etc
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Rahul
October 31, 2016
BR, P , thanks!
Having read all the interacts, I can see why folks think that Karan melodramatized the hell out of the second half. Karan has been known to be emotionally manipulative in the past, I for one found the second half of K3G intolerable, and not a fan of KHNH either. But here, I agree with BR that the treatment is different. I believe this to be the most off mainstream of his movies , and something that even demands a repeat viewing for the second half, with the awareness that what I am seeing is from Ranbir’s unique point of view.
Anushkas illness has not been milked for tears, in fact i think Ranbir is more hurt by the fact that she did not contact him, and is being selfish in his insistence that he wants her love on his own terms. There is nothing wrong with that , just that this is new territory for Karan.
P.S. Did MNS guys miss Imran Abbas Khans cameo ? I assume the going rate is 5 cr per actor ?
P.P.S is it just me or is anyone else finding gratuitous use of Punjabi terms of endearment like channeya bulleya soniye heeriye tiresome ? I love Amitabhs work but the overuse of these terms feels like lazy songwriting to me.
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praneshp
November 1, 2016
To provide a counterpoint to Anu Warrier about NRI kids speaking their language well, I am yet to meet one such kid in the US. They absolutely kill their names, I’ve heard even simple ones like Vivek getting mutiliated.
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Garvit Sharma
November 1, 2016
IMO, Alizeh is not selfish with Ayan at all.She had chosen to walk away from Ali and as Ayan pointed out there was no point of contact between them during that time.Ayan had already prayed to her to never contact him again. It is Ayan who breaks the promise himself.In fact,when Alizeh sees him on the roof,she has a choice to walk away but what we see is no pondering on her side,just a feeling of instant elation on seeing a person who she deeply cares for and knows he has the same feelings for her, though in a different way.
We had a moment at the ending of “Bulleya” when Saba and Ayan are walking away from each other and she is constantly turning her head to see if Ayan reciprocates(classic “palat” moment) but what is going through his mind is Alizeh.Seeing how Alizeh and Ayan are complimentary to each other, I reckon that is what was going through Alizeh’s mind when with Ayan post–cancer.Maybe not Ali’s face,but some residual of the good and bad times they both shared.
Alizeh, who is very aware of herself,remains very ethically puritan till the end.
When she walks away from Ayan in the climax and decides to come back, the judgement is not based on her selfishness or desolateness due to impending death, but because to leave matters incomplete with Ayan was not ethically fair.Ayan, however man-child he was, had made it a point to bid goodbye to her face both times,in an angry and melancholic mood,respectively. To walk away from Ayan after the fight without clearing out the matter would have been criminally unfair to Ayan who mattered the most to her at that point irrespective of her fate.
You know what would have been fun, the moment in the final clash between Ayan and Alizeh when Ayan spurts out Mohnish Behl’s iconic lines “Ek ladka aur ladki kabhi dost nahin ho sakte” and Alizeh taking it from there “Ye to ek parda hai,parda kanpkapaati raton mein dhadakte hue dilon ki bhadakti hui aag ko bujhaane ka,tadpane ka” instead of throwing him out and fulfilling her airport-wali dream. The humorous courtesy shown to the cooker in that heated moment is the analogous to the cold earthy situational comedy that Anurag and Dibakar have a flourish for
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Silverambrosia
November 1, 2016
I feel that Karan’s films have very little to do with the diaspora experience except in the most superficial sense, in the sense of being set in the UK or the US. By this I don’t mean that 2nd generation Indians aren’t into Bollywood in a big way or that they don’t have any knowledge of local languages. Many are into Bollywood, and language proficiency tends to vary a lot. Fairly Few are actually literate in their mother tongue, and that does generally influence how good one’s Hindi, Urdu, Tamil etc is, in terms of vocabulary and the sophistication with which one can employ the language. If, however, Saba wanted to write Urdu poetry, it is perfectly plausible that she went about trying to learn the language well. It is also true that some second generation Indians have a more sheltered and restricted upbringings than, say, their cousins back home in whichever Indian urban center. The parents in these cases are anxious to preserve their culture and way of life, and their reference point may, to some extent be, the India they left 25 (or however many years) ago.
However, apart from a love of Hindi movies, there was nothing to signify that Ayan was a 2nd generation Indian in the UK. His way of speaking, Hindi lingo and use of slang, English accent; everything seemed to point towards a very wealthy globe trotting Mumbai or Delhi guy. Basically the kind of people Karan hangs out with. Kajol’s super annoying and somewhat racist mom character in Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham may have a couple of common points with some desi moms in the diaspora, but I could not identify Hrithik and Kareena’s character as second generation British Indians. We were just told that they are. Ok, fine…they went to the UK quite late…but the same thing applies to Priety Zinta in Kal Ho Na Ho.
My own view is that Karan’s Johar’s movies are popular with NRI audiences for the same reasons they are popular with Indian audiences, or for that matter, Arab audiences or Malaysian audiences. They adore the candy floss, the stars, the catchy if somewhat tacky songs, the fancy ethnic clothes in the wedding numbers, the family friendly nature of the movies, and the the values and ethos his past films have espoused (in broad generalised terms).
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rajen1
November 1, 2016
As usual,an ace review.
There is a lot to agree with even if I would rate it a little less favorably. That aside, this is what Reviewing is about. Splendid!
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Madan
November 1, 2016
“Which friendship is unconditional and unselfish?” – I would think most guy-to-guy friendships that last beyond a couple or more years turn out that way. Because these friendships aren’t founded on any craving for attention from the other side, only a need for support sans consideration. That is why good friends can pick up where they left off even if they haven’t met for years in the middle. In this movie, then, there isn’t only one sided love, there’s also one sided friendship. Ayan never commits to friendship until maybe at the very end when he runs to get her before she flies away; he’s only interested in love and nothing but love.
“Alizeh’s parents’ lack of support is mentioned – by her, by Ali” – Yes, I get that. But if I add up that plus Ayan’s man child behaviour, his somehow still also being an MBA student while being eternally free of commitments, it sounds like a set of plot points contrived to lead up to the tragic love triangle. You are right that it is dysfunctional but the dysfunctional nature of it is too convenient. What if she had never seen Ali again at an event (which rekindled their romance)? I have said this in different words already but for me the movie ended up in a different place entirely from where it had begun and it feels like this was so that KJ could gradually navigate it back into territory he is more comfortable with.
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Madan
November 1, 2016
@P: Interesting reply and also makes me feel a bit old. 😦 😛 No, I see a lover tiff going on almost every time I head out towards Vashi creek (and yes, I have seen the BF field actual thappads :P), so you’re bang on about that. But these were/are college, I mean undergrad, students by the looks of it. The age group/status of Ayan/Alizeh looks a little older and more sophisticated but perhaps your earlier observation that “we are cool only on the outside” accounts for it. Also that as I have said in reply to Anu’s comment that it feels like it has been arranged that way to drive the film into the typical KJ space. Being honest, he does that nearly every time so maybe I shouldn’t have expected anything different. But this is the closest I have come to liking a KJ film and I wish he had had the guts to get past contrivances like cancer and force a more difficult resolution on the lead pair (and by extension, the audience).
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Madan
November 1, 2016
In my defence, I should say that since I lost my grandfather to cancer 10 years back, it perhaps make me unreasonably irritated when filmmakers resort to cancer to get a neat tragic ending. Advanced stage cancer patients look nothing like Alizeh. It’s a horrible disease that simply eats you up from the inside and would surely leave no strength to the patient to clamber up a rooftop or rush to catch a flight all by herself.
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brangan
November 1, 2016
Rahul: Anushkas illness has not been milked for tears, in fact i think Ranbir is more hurt by the fact that she did not contact him
That is why I’m surprised so many people I talk to are dismissing this film as just another weepie, just another love triangle, just another disease-of-the-week film.
In KHNH, the last portions were entirely about SRK dying from cancer. I mean, he was the focus. Here, it’s not about Alizeh at all. It’s about AYAN — HIS inability to deal with the disease, HIS desire to sleep with her and have a full-on “DJ Ali wala” relationship at least for a short while. This is total integrity to the film’s decision to stick with the hero’s journey. Whether’s Saba’s sexual interlude or Alizeh’s cancer or Ali’s re-entry into Alizeh’s life, they are all part of Ayan’s growth from boy to man.
You cannot just say “three people = love triangle”. “cancer = cliche”. It’s how these are employed in the film, and for me, I found it all very fresh and interesting. (The tone, the tenor of the film helped a lot too.)
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P
November 1, 2016
An Jo: “Saba…. who literally dances like a stripper in a club in one of the previous scenes”
I did not know only strippers danced in clubs. Thanks for the info.
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P
November 1, 2016
@Madan: No idea what is the creek you’re talking about. Is it like marine drive where lovers sit?
When I said I slapped someone, I mean that I slapped someone who I was in love with who said to me that he loved someone else! He was not a boyfriend. I was just so angry with him.
We stopped talking for some time. Then he only came back and we went back to being friends(though it was tough as f for me to do that!).
Love is irrational. Friendship is so too. And a lot of times friendship is more irrational than love. Love at least has practical considerations of what are we doing, where are we going to live up to. Friendship has nothing of the sort. You steer it the way you want. And in male-female friendships that can sometimes lead you to dangerous territory.
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rothrocks
November 1, 2016
@ An Jo: Interesting comment (and review). Now I don’t see any problem in flipping from Mukesh to Sex Pistols (my personal choice would be Siouxsie and the Banshees as I never really got the hype about Sex Pistols) but I am not going to dance to Sex Pistols in a nightclub. And this goes for a lot of the musical/lit crowd especially something as introspective as poetry. I am not generalizing too much here; I am watching The Stage show on Colours Infinity and most of the contestants as well as the judges are bad dancers. I have musician or music fan friends and most of them don’t dance. It is possible in theory that someone can straddle the mystical and nostalgic and the hip/in things to do but it is again stretching credibility. Why can’t we get at least one character who plays true to type? DJ Ali is the closest and he has very limited screen time.
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P
November 1, 2016
When people stereotype we complain. When they show people straddling both worlds we also complain.
I am amused. Like I said earlier: kis kis ko khush karein!
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jam bajar jakku
November 1, 2016
why are no sk haters here pointing out kj’s stereotyping of lisa hayden? fair skinnaaaa?
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Sifter
November 1, 2016
Comments asking P for clarity 🙂
@P- Makes me think of the ‘smoking cat.’:-) 🙂
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rothrocks
November 1, 2016
@ P: It’s all about credibility. Lazy stereotyping is bad but so is creating a set of people whom it is difficult to believe would actually exist. With that said, I didn’t really bother about whether Saba was a credible character at the time of watching it. If the movie had worked for me I may have completely glossed over these aspects.
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Anu Warrier
November 1, 2016
BR, I didn’t mean ‘selfish’ in the usual sense of the word. She was true to her values of wanting to remain friends. But there’s a selfishness inherent in continuing to be friends with someone you know wants more; you are causing them pain. Yes, it’s their choice to remain ‘just friends’ with you, and be pained (if you will), but a truly unselfish person will not want to cause that sort of pain to someone he/she cares for so much.
In that sense, yes, her scene at the end where she bursts out that she can lie to herself perhaps, but she can’t lie to him is great, but it’s false – because she always knew he wanted more from her than she could offer.
So. She ‘selfishly’ wants his friendship even if she knows what he wants from her is ‘Ali-wala love.’
And yes, I thought she was a fantastic character – such a complex one. There has never been such a heroine in Johar’s universe. So was Saba, even given the length (or lack of) of her role. Both the women were complex, strong, characters.
I agree with you that 2 women, 1 guy, cancer may all well be clichés, but in this film, it was handled well.
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Anu Warrier
November 1, 2016
@An Jo, wow! So a shaayara should only be found in a mehfil; she shouldn’t be going to a club and letting her hair down? She can’t like to write poetry and groove to absolutely different music at the same time? Which world do you inhabit that people who like one thing can only live in a world that is circumscribed by your imagination (or of the Hindi films of yore)?
No, the Amitabh of Kabhi Kabhie was not the sort who could have gone from reciting Main pal do pal ka shaayar hoon to jiving on a dance floor. What does that have to do with Saba, who obviously likes her drink, her dancing and her men?
And what’s with the ‘stripper in a nightclub’ slam? Ugh!
@pranesh/Madan: yes, the kind of second-generation kids you speak of are the usual lot, I’m sure. I was only pointing out that there are exceptions to the rule. I happen to know two of them, and I know they are not unique.
@Madan, that sort of friendship (pick up where you left off) is not restricted to men. 🙂 That’s how most of my friendships are. Both my ‘best friends’ live in different continents. We meet perhaps once a year. But I would argue that there is something we get from those friendships that keep them going. Nothing, not even a friendship, can be ek tarfa. There be dragons, thataway. There is an inherent selfishness in all our relationships, not in terms of using our friends for selfish ends, but because we all get something in return for what we give. And if we didn’t, if all we did was ‘give’, we would feel – very naturally – taken for granted.
It is in that sense that I see Alizeh’s ‘selfishness’. She takes Ayan, his friendship, his place in her life, for granted. That it hurts him deeply – whether warranted or not – to just be her friend, is something that she brushes off, because she’s been honest with him from the start about what she wanted. She wants what she wants – a friend, family; he wants what he wants – Ali-wala pyaar; when those wants collide, the person who wants less wins. (Which is true of real life too.)
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Anu Warrier
November 1, 2016
@jam bajar: what stereotyping of Lisa Hayden? I thought her character was a hoot: she’s unabashedly who and what she is. Even in the end, when she leaves Ayan. What’s the ‘stereotype’ here? And what has that got to do with SK?
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Aran
November 1, 2016
Anu, I get what you mean about selfishness – would term it self-interest though. Alizeh keeps saying that she doesn’t want to lose Ayan by complicating their relationship by being lovers. The Alizeh-Ayan relationship keeps being on her terms throughout, and she is the one driving it according to her terms even when it is apparent Ayan wants more. In a way, she is as determined about him replacing her family as he is with wanting the DJ Ali waala love. So yes, throughout the film she’s intent on taking what she wants from him (the sukoon, not junoon / her lost khandaan), and giving him what she can of herself, yes, but not what he wants.
In all fairness to her, she is mature enough to keep telling him that this is how it’s going to be and repeatedly lining it up for him. Also, she absolutely has the right to the make the decision of not complicating their relationship, but there is a kernel of truth there with the uneven giving vs. taking in which even though Ayan is the one making all the noise about wanting more, she is in fact the one getting exactly what she wants from that relationship.
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rothrocks
November 1, 2016
@ Anu: But there’s a difference between enjoying shayri and becoming a shayra, right? It is an old fashioned pursuit and it is a little weird that someone who calls that a career would also be hip in just about every other way. I would argue that the reason KJ draws her up that way is it is the only world he knows. He is not comfortable painting a portrait of a nomadic, semi bankrupt artist choosing ideals over commercial success so he comes up with this extremely fashionable and modern shayra who admits to not being famous and yet lives in a fab place in Vienna. The only way that works is she was born with a silver spoon and hence the criticism/derision towards KJ. KJ land ain’t no country for self made men.
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P
November 1, 2016
I agree with you Anu when you said that a modern poet can also groove in a night club.
As for Amitabh, his character in not Kabhie Kabhie, but in Silsila was also seen dancing in a very dessssi manner “unbefitting” of such a serious, sulky character 😉 🙂
Can we stop oversimplifying the kind of artists that exist in this world? Not all of them are political, introverts who either write poetry or lie drunk somewhere. Please.
They also go out to night clubs and have fun and let their hair loose.
In Andheri where I live there is a poet/writer/singer on every street and yes some of them do live in relative luxury than the rest of us (because rich parents and I don’t begrudge them that, honestly!). Not every single person on this thread has earned every single thing they have ever owned or every experience they have lived, have they? If middle class parents can scrimp and save to send their kids to expensive schools, colleges and buy them laptops they can’t afford, why can’t rich people give their kids what they want too? I mean srsly.
Jesus. You guys are all bringing in your stereotypes of what this “old fashioned pursuit” and the people pursuing it should act/look/feel like.
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brangan
November 1, 2016
Heh. That is exactly what I was thinking. The supposed stereotypes in KJo’s films seem to be nothing compared to the stereotypes expressed here about men, women, relationships, poets, NRIs…
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P
November 1, 2016
@BR: not to forget strippers 😉
If An Jo really thinks a stripper would give a performance like that for free (even to a Ranbir) then he doesn’t know anything about strippers except of course as a pejorative.
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P
November 1, 2016
This reminds me of when I told my extremely academic south indian family that I wanted to become a writer. My grand-uncle said something like “oh yeah, from now on we know where to find you. You’ll be lying drunk every evening on old monk at the Press Club”.
And I was like- what’s old monk? A happy discovery indeed when I did find out! 😉
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Rahul
November 1, 2016
BR – “they are all part of Ayan’s growth from boy to man.”
I don’t quite agree with this. Men can as easily get into hopeless romantic situations as can boys. Unlike Ayan’s Sid, Karan’s Ayan never had a doubt about what he wanted from life. Even while he was with Saba, all he thought about was Alizeh. Second guessing his choices about his own life is not fair, if he is not doing anything unethical or illegal.
Or maybe I misinterpreted what you wrote.
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Anu Warrier
November 1, 2016
‘A nomadic semi-bankrupt artist’ is itself a stereotype, no? Most of the artistes I know – poets, writers, artists, theatre people are pretty self-sufficient. Not ‘rich’ exactly, but none of them are starving in the gutter. The idea that people have to starve for their art is a trope that needs to be retired.
Look, Johar makes movies about rich people. He makes no bones about it. That’s the world he knows and it makes no sense to him to try and make movies about a milieu he doesn’t understand. Give him props for honesty at least. [In an interview, he mocks himself for his utter lack of understanding – he apparently wanted to give the little beggar girl in his segment in Bombay Talkies three changes of clothes.]
As for ‘becoming a shaayra… So his poetess is not a self-made, starving artist. Why shouldn’t Saba be a poet even if she’s rich? Even if she chooses to write poetry on a whim? She has the money to indulge that whim, no? Or are you arguing that the only ‘serious’ artists are those who ‘struggle’ for their art? That you cannot write a great book or paint a great picture or make a great film because you are rich? Or that rich people shouldn’t have problems because their ‘problems’ (quote) are never as serious as those of the hoi polloi?
I mean, for all the criticism for KJo’s movies and there’s plenty, I can’t see why he should be penalised for drawing on a world that he knows well. If it were the reverse, if he was a film-maker who drew on his middle-class, or lower-economic class roots to people his universe, he would be praised to the skies for being ‘realistic’ and ‘true to life’. Reverse snobbery? Well, the world he shows is true to his life and that of people like him. It doesn’t mean they are less ‘real’ because we don’t identify with them.
You don’t have to like ADHM. But don’t pick at stuff just because you cannot envisage a rich woman writing poetry, for instance. 🙂
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Shalini
November 1, 2016
Totally agree with Anu & P regarding the stereotype-breaking depiction of Saba. I was very pleased that she wasn’t shown as the sharara-wearing, shawl-across-her-shoulders throwing, bottle-glasses sporting poetic cliché. Me wanted glamorous, not Gulzar!
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rothrocks
November 1, 2016
@P So there’s no difference between Oshiwara and Vienna? Now you’re telling me! 😉 And what’s the audience for a shayra in Vienna that bankrolls a lavish lifestyle for this self admittedly less successful shayra? Look I get you love the film to bits and that’s ok. But I don’t and therefore the lack of explanations for this whole bunch of convenient happenstances is harder for me to ignore. I will leave it there because I have made my point amply clear.
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An Jo
November 1, 2016
OK. I am bit busy so couldn’t reply to Anu’s comments. And I might not get the time to reply today too. But I see that before I even reply, already chauvinistic assumptions have been made about me without even bothering to expand on or understand the context which, shockingly include even BR. But that’s fine. I will reply to it. And I am writing this just to prevent folks clouding up the section for one bloody sentence just so they could get a pat on their backs for supposedly being the torch-bearers of a-stereotypical behaviors..
P, you are free to continue to have your notions about me. I am not willing to engage or further the discussion.
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Shalini
November 1, 2016
@ Anu – Re, Alizeh’s “selfishness.” Mostly agree with your take with one tweak – I don’t think it’s one adult’s responsibility to manager another adult’s emotional needs. Alizeh is very clear that she has no romantic interest in Ayan. It’s his responsibility to decide whether he can continue with the relationship on those terms. His call whether the pain of not having her in his life is greater than the pain of being a friend but never a lover to her. When Ayan asks Alizeh to let him go, she respects his request and doesn’t contact him. He is the one who tracks her down and re-inserts himself in her life.
Indeed, I think Alizeh was exceptionally compassionate towards Ayan. If dude had pulled that infantile stunt on my wedding day, I would have punched him in the face and said, here replace your “dil ka dard” with “face ka dard”!
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praneshp
November 1, 2016
@P
“An Jo: “Saba…. who literally dances like a stripper in a club in one of the previous scenes”
I did not know only strippers danced in clubs. Thanks for the info. ”
That’s not what An Jo said. Don’t pretend to be stupid.
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Anu Warrier
November 1, 2016
@Shalini, I agree about Alizeh’s not having the responsibility to handle Ayan’s emotions. I said so as well. 🙂 I even agree with you about the reaction to Ayan’s wedding-day stunt. All I’m saying is that there’s an inherent selfishness that allows her to get what she wants – friend, family, sukoon, without giving him what he wants. So in that sense, ‘selfish’. That’s all. Or if you prefer, make that ‘human’. 🙂
An Jo, I hope you will respond at some point.
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Dracarys
November 1, 2016
Whatsapp share…
ae dil hai mushkil… too much confusion…u can fuck ur best friend but cannot love… u can love somebody but cannot fuck…somebody else can fuck ur gf and u have to remain friends…u can fuck someone’s wife and she decides to leave u because she likes only fuck and no attraction…finally ur love comes back to u but in defective state… Oops so much mental masturbation by Gay director..kjo 😝
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P
November 2, 2016
@rothrocks: @P “So there’s no difference between Oshiwara and Vienna? Now you’re telling me!😉 And what’s the audience for a shayra in Vienna that bankrolls a lavish lifestyle for this self admittedly less successful shayra? ”
If Ayan can have an internet audience why can’t she? Maybe she doesn’t like living in India. Maybe she likes the loneliness of writing in Vienna. Maybe she’s staying for free in one of the multiple homes her divorce lawyer got her from SRK- who’s a rich successful painter? (she did say that her lawyer didn’t spare her ex!)
Even the writer of the film Delhi Belly wrote the entire story while he was living in the US and mailed it to Aamir Khan Productions.
Why do we want our artists to suffer financially? Is that the only way to make good art? Imtiaz himself never really suffered financially- despite his haggard exterior- he grew up in a cushy life, then became an AD, and then a director. Not really financial struggle. Most of the people out here haven’t really struggled financially. You cannot afford to live in Bombay if you have a financial struggle. Except for a stray Nawazuddin here and there.
I don’t love the film to bits per se. I think its lovely and it surprised me considering its from KJo, I just think eviscerating someone for depicting people in a milieu that you and I find unfamiliar and he doesn’t is unfair and unjust.
Like I have no clue how authentic or real Anurag Kashyap’s Wasseypur is- but I loved it. My friend who is from that part of the country said he thought AK had completely UP-fied it and it surprised me but i still thought that within the world he was building it seemed to make sense.
And the same goes for KJo. I really do think we give the “realistic” cinema makers much much more license and a longer rope to hang when it comes to the atmospherics of their films.
I mean would anyone have spoken of Yash Chopra’s Silsila or Waqt like this? Its absurd to say that because the people in KJo’s films start out being rich that they are not self made. Does that mean anyone who didn’t study on the street like Ambedkar is not self-made? Everyone gets some sort of leg up from their parents. For some of us its a middle-class leg up for some its a private jet leg up. So WHAT?!
An Jo: For you to say that Aishwarya dancing in a club like any other woman would around the world is “Dancing like a stripper” made me furious. I dance like that. So?
I don’t even care for your argument that she thus can’t be a poet. That statement itself was ridiculous.
I think its easy to presume that you neither know what a stripper is nor do you know what people do in a dance club.
Could care less that you don’t want to reply.
praneshp: I rarely employ it, but its called sarcasm eyeroll
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rothrocks
November 2, 2016
@ Anu Really? Most of the artists you know are self sufficient? That too musicians? You must know only successful ones then. It is very difficult to make money in any of the arts until you become successful and establish a loyal fan following. And many artists in turn take up day jobs so they don’t have to worry about money. We are never told whether/if Saba has a day job that pays for her passion. The problem isn’t that Saba specifically is rich and appears to have inherited wealth. The problem is all three appear to be that way. And they all somehow bump into each other and impact each others’ lives where apparently rich AND self made people seem to avoid them like the plague. At a busy international airport the person Ayan somehow chats up has to be a rich Urdu poetess heading for Vienna? It’s all both too coincidental and too one dimensional. There is ultimately a lack of contrast between the characters. But I could have forgiven that had KJ accounted for these happenstances. Instead he wants us to believe it is the most natural thing in life. Now that’s just lazy storytelling.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
November 2, 2016
rothrocks : You have a point there. Its easier to go into a darkened movie screening room to watch ‘The Matrix’ and suspend your disbelief for sometime.
When I watch K.Vishwanath’s films, the contours of the film’s environment are pretty well drawn…….(to borrow your line of thought) no one has to work for a living (almost everyone), and Carnatic music is more popular than popular music but the way its executed leaves you in psychedelic trance for 3 hours and you come out of the theatre with the feeling you’ve had a great “fix”.
But KJO and pretty much all of Bollywood also define the contours of their environment but its toooooo upmarket, toooooo up-income bracket, bottomline tooooo unbelievable.
https://www.facebook.com/events/969394899857025/
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rothrocks
November 2, 2016
@ P It’s not possible to get by in Mumbai if you’re struggling? Tell that to Raju Srivastav or Sunil Pal. But that aside why do we need to go through a set of maybes to account for Saba’s lifestyle? That itself shows that it is out of the ordinary. So why doesn’t KJ take the effort to simply explain her background a little more? And it’s not only Saba. We are left in the dark about all four lovers. Surely this is just lazy writing and not a desire to keep the characters enigmatic. On the other hand he blatantly evokes KHNH to manipulate our emotions (which confirms that the details have been left out inadvertently rather than by design).
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An Jo
November 2, 2016
@Anu:
OK. I am addressing this to you ONLY – and some sane minds. I knew the sentence would be taken in the wrong ‘anti-libretti’ format: And that’s why I wrote 2 sentences after that mentioning that I am talking about the confusions in Karan’s mind with regard to what he wants to convey. It’s already established that Saba is a devastatingly-beautiful woman who has a mind of her own. She can have a life or life-style of whatever she wants. She can have whatever sex life she wants and she can be a cougar or a nymphomaniac –should I write down here a couple more sentences mentioning that men can be considered or labeled ‘womanizers’ and in my dictionary, it is as judgmental or as bad as mentioning women as ‘gold-diggers’ or character-less? To be safe, let me write this, else with the fantastic deductive logic that ‘understands’ that only strippers can dance like ‘that’ or enter clubs, I might start facing lawsuits – or whoever or whatever the hell she wants to be. That’s not the point here is it? My concern is with what Karan’s trying to convey something and what he is actually showing? Ayan calls up Saba after 3 months and Saba is already flirting with him: The message is out there. She is ready to take it further with him. Ayan knows it, and Saba is bloody well ready. What does she say? : ‘Hey, I am the one who’s getting impatient that I am not getting the call from you’: Booty call or a facial call or whatever the hell is considered ‘modern’ and represents a , you know, ‘liberal’ attitude. Mr. Ayan’s cheeks – butt or facial — blush. AFTER this, Karan films a scene in a club where Saba asks, with her fingers, to shut his pie-hole [oh right, and he Apple maps her from her eyes to her breasts! Go figure..] and get on with the action. Really, was this needed? After that phone call? After a ‘painting’ of a woman answers your call with the ubiquitous message of, ‘I am the one missing you.!!’ The reason and the language I used of making Saba dance like a ‘stripper’ was the ‘bludgeoning’ of gloss and glamor that Karan’s immature mind refuses to let go. And this reaction came from me after witnessing a ‘series’ of scenes that hammer you underlining the fact that the characters in this film are 0.1% of the real people you might meet in your life: I have GOTTEN that: Silent music clubs, arranging for a plane to be flown to Heathrow at 2 am in the morning from Paris or wherever the hell those 2 decide to get drunk. I get it: I GOT IT. You are either Ambani’s or Mittal’s child. You still need to beat my senses to death with even a ‘SHAAYARA’ being a ‘hot’ and a ‘cool’ woman at the same time? I hope I have answered the reasoning behind the ‘shameful’ sentence of Saba dancing like a ‘stripper.’ Maybe I am a poor writer, I will work on improving that, but I hope you got the ‘fakery’ that forced me to write that sentence.
Coming to the fact that he made Saba a SHAAYARA, what’s the purpose? OK, I get that Ayan uses her couplets in his songs. What does the title song, ADHM, however, have to do with Saba’s couplets? DID she write those lines? No she couldn’t, since there is no pining for a lover from her side! She’s moved on! How could she write about ‘unrequited’ love? How do you explain, in Saba’s life-style and her experiences, this line?
जुनून है मेरा, बनूँ मैं तेरे काबिल
It’s my obsession that I become capable and deserving of you;
तेरे बिना गुज़ारा, आए दिल है मुश्किल
Difficult for my heart to lead a life without you;
It’s explainable in Ayan’s context. How’s it explainable in Saba’s context, if that’s where he’s deriving his lines from?
OK, as I mentioned before, it is a ‘series’ of cinematic scenes that, as they say, was the last straw to break the camel’s back. The last straw was actually Karan’s depiction that reduced cancer to a joke: But I will leave it at that since I was literally puking at that point.
From Anushka and her Doctor fiancée’s liberal usage of ‘Urdu’ in UK to the ‘itemized’ depiction of Lisa Haydon’s character, Karan’s ‘fakery’ is at display at large here. [It’s pretty clear here that KJo was targeting the Muslim population in the Middle-east as well as the Muslim NRIs – that’s why it sounds so weird the sudden shift from Lahore or Karachi [& I don’t blame him for that, maybe it’s MSN pressure-tactics] or wherever to Lucknow, INDIA: वालिद, वल्दा from a ‘Lucknowi’ doctor who doesn’t hesitate to make-out in the men’s bathroom; what was he moaning about when Lisa’s hands were on his privates? ‘Oh MERE वालिद, वल्दा, खुदा?? Just curious.. since KJo is such a honest and ‘stereo-type’ breaking film-maker ]. Pray, coming to the national award that Karan’s being online-bestowed upon for ‘breaking’ the stereo-type of a शायरा who writes but who wears torn jeans and goes clubbing or has a house that the Ambanis’ Antilla would be jealous of, shall we consider what Alizeh’s character calls Lisa’s character? A ‘दरिंदे वैश्या – a despicable whore [these days, one’s got to spell-out or translate everything, else, one runs the risk of being labeled a ‘regionalist.’ This doesn’t mean you don’t understand Hindi or Urdu; you know, it’s just me trying to be safe {what if the ‘South-Indians’ call me anti-south, just as BR Saab tried to be safe against MNS ransom of 5 crore?’}] Really, that’ s all in fun eh? Calling Lisa’s character a ‘gold-digger’ and a whore and not just a whore, but a peanut-brained whore! That’s fine. That’s all in the ‘flow’ of the film: Hey that’s just mocking ‘tacky’ Balaji tele-films’ production and the ‘80s’! And, it’s a woman calling another woman a whore! God forbid a man would utter that word..
ADHM is as though Johar took SRK, Alia, Ranbir, Aishwarya, Anushka, and that irreproducible cross-border talent in his private jet and landed them on Imtiaz’s helipad and told them, ‘Hey, have fun folks, but in a KJo way’!
It’s a KJo barbecue-party all the way with liberal, borrowed, copied dosages of barbecue sauce being brushed onto KJo’s hatchlings.
This is a film-maker who made Senator Obama the President of the US during Katrina in 2005 in New Orleans to fit his attempt at projecting SRK as a fine actor in MNIK: And this film-maker, today, is considered a ‘stereo-type’ breaker because Saba is portrayed as someone who is not Manto’s better-half in spirit or physicality and who can let her hair down in a night-club.. Next on Johar’s list? A Tibetan monk who drinks Old Monk and dances in a night-club in Lower Parel..or better yet, in Vienna, you know, just to let his hair-down [whether he has hair or not] and take a break from the Chinese oppression..
Talking of KJo’s ‘maturity’, consider the dinner-table scene housing Ayan, Sabah, and Alizeh from ADHM derived from KANK…of course, that it is childish to consider Aishwarya’s gaze to be as mesmeric or powerful as her father-in-law’s would be idiotic.. but what would life be without them..ADHM..
I could maybe even have warmed up to this film if Imtiaz hadn’t existed in this universe..But having seen Ali’s superior takes on such subjects, it’s stunning that folks are seeing ‘originality’ in here..
I actually decided I was wrong..I decided to watch it again [Oh God the pains you subject me to in the name of cinema..watching a Karan Johar movie twice..in a THEATER..on a bitter cold night on the East coast..] I had a couple of swags of whiskey just so that,, you know,, I could feel the pain of the pot crushing my chest..[no not the breasts like Lisa’s, since I unfortunately do not have them]. After all, how could I, who cried copiously when SRK lifted a placard in that fake film called MNIK crying out, ‘CAN REPAIR ANYTHING,’ not be moved, if not to tears, at least sniffles, at this SO-BO’s home-grown kid?? It didn’t help, the whiskey made it far clearer that this is far more insincere film attempt…
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P
November 2, 2016
@rothrocks: Sunil Pal was living in his daddy’s home as he moved to Bombay with the Indian railways. Sure he worked shit jobs but he had a roof over his head courtesy daddy.
Raju Shrivastav had a poet father whose connections helped him get by in whatever way he did in Bombay.
Most of the struggling actors take low paying jobs not because that is the only one they get but because its the only ones they can leave at moment’s notice or that give them enough free time to go to acting workshops auditions etc.
But Karan Johar is not writing about strugglers like them. He doesn’t know them, the strugglers he knows are different. He’s writing about people like Gattu- Abhishek Kapoor who is Ekta Kapoor’s cousin and who directed Kai Po Che after almost 15 years of struggle. He had a good lifestyle and rich parents, he just didn’t know what to do with his life. Or maybe A Ranveer Singh too- rich, businessman’s son who wanted to become an artist and struggled. Or maybe a Nitin Mukesh- whose father was a famous singer and who just couldn’t make it and struggled. Or maybe like an Imaad Shah or Vivaan Shah, children of rich backgrounds who struggle. Kalki Koechlin’s grandfather designed the Eiffel Tower and she grew up in relative luxury in Bangalore- does that mean her struggle is to be discounted?
Its sickening to see that people think troubles or struggles are worthy to people only if they happen to self-made people.
I can go on with multiple examples but I won’t because this thread is frankly boring me with its stereotypes.
Good day.
PS: As for Ayan bumping into a rich shaayra, I think in the expensive first class international lounge you would meet only a rich person. Its obvious that people of a certain class will meet generally only people of that certain class even in the public places they go to. Jesus.
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rothrocks
November 2, 2016
@ P Right back at ya. Took a bit longer but you have reverted to your favourite strategy of misconstruing and over simplifying an opposing argument. I’ve got nothing to say to the charge that I don’t respect rich people’s struggles but – LMFAO. I am sure you are intelligent enough to know that is not what I said so it would not be worth my time to explain myself here. Think whatever you like. And lol I did not ask for explanations for the curious coincidences of KJ land. We can hypothesize all sorts of plausible explanations for them but the film itself doesn’t offer any. Once or twice may be by design; all the time is just oversight.
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rothrocks
November 2, 2016
@ sravishanker: Yes it’s easier to suspend disbelief, ironically, when a make believe fantasy world is created by the filmmaker. Much harder when they are real people living out real lives. In fairness to KJ our films have got away with it for a long time but maybe the tolerance of some like me has worn thin. Ticket prices don’t help. I went to a somewhat downmarket multiplex to pay 230 per head for a 6th row seat. In the neighbourhood Inox it was a whopping 350 onwards for the same show (afternoon). I remember when 30 could get you balcony seats. At least a bad movie didn’t piss you off so much when it burnt a much smaller hole in the wallet.
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Altman
November 2, 2016
Except for Ayan, all the major characters like Alizeh, DJ Ali, Saba even Dr. Faisal hail from Pakistan. Karan had to alter it at the eleventh hour due to the immense pressure from all corners. You can clearly see Alizeh saying Lahore and it’s dubbed as Lucknow. Ayan says he don’t have a visa when she invites him to her wedding. Why would an NRI need a visa to visit Lucknow? Clearly, the wedding takes place at Lahore and he meets Saba at the Lahore Airport. Also, Fawad Khan’s scenes with Anushka have been chopped to make his prominent role into a mere cameo.
This is unfortunate because the screenplay makes so much sense in this context. Ayan and Alizeh are from different ethnic backgrounds living in the UK. Initially, they are attracted to each other but it wears off soon. They bond over their unabashed love for Bollywood. Eventually, Ayan falls for her but she couldn’t reciprocate his love because she doesn’t feel that way about him. Her heart had already been broken to pieces by the Sufistic DJ Ali she met in Lahore. Saba is a mysterious Urdu poetess whose ex-husband Taliyar Khan is a renowned artist. It seems like Karan was trying to portray the world of uber rich, liberated, sophisticated, Urdu loving, bar hopping South Asians living peacefully in Europe. This explains all the Urdu couplets, the casting of two Pakistani actors etc.. This was all supposed to exotic to Ayan and to the audience from both countries. It’s sad that it wasn’t released in Pakistan.
Now the reason Alizeh can’t give Ayan, DJ Ali wala pyaar is because he’s not from Lahore? Who knows. Ayan asks her ‘Usme kya hai jo mujhme nahi he?’ We can’t tell since we don’t know anything about DJ Ali at all. Karan’s vision of an affluent, powerful, united South Asia remains only a dream.
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Anu Warrier
November 2, 2016
@Madan, I didn’t say they made their money out of the arts. 🙂 Two of them are techies who have switched careers. I think they consult while pursuing their music. One of them sold his company; neither he nor his children will have to work. (Which brings to the fore this image: if his children want to pursue esoteric poetry in Vienna, they can well afford to.) Two of them come from r.a.t.h.e.r. well off backgrounds. Of course I know there are people who struggle to pay their bills from their art alone, and so take up day jobs to survive. The point is, Johar’s Saba is not one of them. She is rich. Period. Do you really need to know how she’s rich? Nowhere is it said that she makes her money from her poetry.
Anyway, nitpicking aside, you didn’t like the film; I did, obviously. 🙂 The movie and the characters worked for me; it didn’t, for you. I doubt either of us is going to change the other’s mind.
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Anu Warrier
November 2, 2016
@An Jo – Maaan! Relax. You’ll have a cardiac arrest if you hyperventilate so much! Now, tell me: you really, really, really didn’t like the movie, did you? 🙂
Seriously, though – what was your problem about Saba embracing her sexuality? It is clear that she’s attracted to Ayan, attracted enough to leave him her number. When he calls, the anticipation is heightened. That feeling is carried over to the night club where they meet where the sexual attraction ignites. They were three scenes: where’s the ‘beating over the head’?
Also, I don’t know why ‘liberal’ and ‘modern’ have to be in quotes, but yes, if a woman does want to sleep with a man, and is unapologetic about wanting a relationship without the commitment, it’s bloody modern in my book. Sexual attraction is a thing, you know, and for far too long, women have been shamed for their desires. I will applaud someone having the guts to show that desire and not make excuses for it by turning Saba into a cliché.
Two, Ae dil hai mushkil has no connection to Saba’s poetry. Buleya does. But between one and the other, they show him using her poetry as he begins his Internet journey with his music. By the time Ae dil hai mushkil rolls around, Ayan’s music has the dard that Alizeh said it lacked. He’s begun to understand love and loss, and they are his words as well as his music.
So a urdu-spouting doctor cannot make out with a woman he’s just met? What region/religion/language should he be from, that will allow him to do that? 🙂 I honestly don’t understand why speaking Urdu should mean anything different. Perhaps it’s ‘exotic’ to us. But for people who speak Urdu as their native language, it is like any other language – put Hindi or Malayalam or Tamil instead, and this particular person would still behave like this.
Calling Lisa a pea-brained whore is not fine. Who said it was? Alizeh, like all of us, is flawed. And Initially, she is shown to be quite offensive and judgemental. So what? This has nothing to do with her being a woman. If it had been Ayan saying so, I would still have shrugged and said the character is offensive. What matters is what Johar did with that judgement: you don’t see Ayan pushing Lisa off in disgust because she is a ‘whore’; he’s still with her, and he’s apologising for Alizeh (while Lisa locks herself in the bathroom), and in the end, he’s crying because she’s making out with Faisal and he feels betrayed. I liked that Lisa is also unapologetic about who and what she is. There’s a respect accorded her that when Alizeh makes those remarks about her, it’s Alizeh you want to smack.
Again. You hated the movie, and nothing I say is going to make you change your mind. And that’s fine. For those of us who liked the movie, we have our reasons. For those of you who didn’t, none of those reasons are going to matter a whit.
But, hey, relax. Have a tea, or something. Several teas. Or somethings. 🙂 Just don’t rain on our parade.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
November 2, 2016
rothrocks : Come to think of it – In ‘Darr’ Juhi Chawla and Sunny Deol carry out the housewarming of their Worli Sea Face flat (approximate cost in 1994 – Rs.2 crores) on Sunny Deol’s commando salary by singing ‘chota sa Ghar …Hai Yeh Magar”
I found it absurd then and I find it absurd now…I did like the movie – worth watching once but yes as you’ve rightly it, we’ve moved on.
https://www.facebook.com/events/969394899857025/
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rothrocks
November 2, 2016
@ Anu Need to know finally depends on how one sees a film and each one’s desire for details. In this case because it smacks of KJ taking Imtiaz filmy characters and fitting them to a KJ film, I find it unsatisfying. With regular KJ types I would not have questioned the characterisation. I would like to see him actually commit to making a different film and go the whole hog. Speaking of techies yes I know a guy who works for a software major in Bangalore and therefore can afford to play drums for a rock band and he’s outstanding. But it doesn’t pay; it’s the software job that pays. From my perspective kJ could have easily bored a minute from the lousy rdb tribute and explained not only Saba but all the main characters to the audience. That’s how little time it would have taken.
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rothrocks
November 2, 2016
@ sravishanker: Lol that ghar did not look very small to me even at that time. That’s partly why I began to follow Hollywood early on; this was also the period when it got easier and easier to watch Hollywood movies. I am not sure even Hollywood is what it used to be anymore but that’s another story.
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Rahul
November 2, 2016
Altman, though I disagree with your last para, but still, great post ,mate. That explains a lot.
1. The abundance of Punjabi words in the songs
2. Punjabi flavored sangeet in a Lucknow wedding
3 A name like Alizeh that is more common in Pak than in India
etc.
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gm
November 2, 2016
Although i enjoyed some parts of the movie , there were huge chunks that left me cold. ergo the over done self refrentialism of old hindi movie lines and songs. lets retire this lazy tactic already. the cancer thing was totally random and not a resolution to the dead end( no pun intended) that the screenplay found itself at. that alizeh looked nothing like a cancer patient did not help.
Speaking of which, alizeh, ali , faisal and saba are clearly pakistani characters who were whitewashed as indians due to MNS pressure, i guess you cant blame karan for that. i would have preferred the pakistani original because it would have offered something we have’nt seen yet on screen. but i guess this will remain a dream since karan has been bullied into submission.
I am assuming that ayan’s character was not a BBCD but more of a globetrotter who was born there but grew up india and came to the UK for undergrad.alizeh was probably just born in pak and came to the UK for undergrad.Saba was pakistani who moved to the UK after marriage, likely an artistic soul for whom academics was not a priority, she may have gotten through undergrad in pakistan with some difficulty. that was my character bio for these folks!
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
November 2, 2016
rothrocks :
“I am not sure even Hollywood is what it used to be anymore but that’s another story.”
Ah ! Relieved that I’m not alone.
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Anu Warrier
November 2, 2016
That’s partly why I began to follow Hollywood early on;
And Hollywood is realistic?! 😀
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MANK
November 3, 2016
Anu,the issue is not about you liking the film and An Jo disliking it. the issue here is the film aesthetic of KJo. As Madan put it, there is no problem with Karan making K3G or KHNH the way he made them. the treatment itself is so hyperbolic that you just dont care about the background of the plot or characters. or anything. you watch them like you watch those B horror films or exploitation movies, simply for their cheap schlocky kicks..
But that’s not the case here . he is trying to appropriate a higher aesthetic by channeling the likes of Imtiaz Ali. but the problem is that he is still trying to sneak in his aesthetic in to it without much thought or taste.
Thats what An Jo is saying about the scene in the club. its nothing to do about the stereotype about what a poetess should be or should not be . KJo wants to deal with more real characters and events , but they are still coming out through the filter of his trademark hyperbole.
Now i do share his outrage up to a point, which i ranted about in a few earlier posts. but thing is that what he is doing here may or may not affect your viewing pleasure. it seems that yours wasnt. as for me- As i said earlier- it didn’t bother me for the most part, but its really towards the end that i started finding it intolerable
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rothrocks
November 3, 2016
@ Anu It is not. But then as a schoolchild I couldn’t have straight away jumped to British or European cinema. One has to start somewhere. I do find Hollywood more plausible than Bollywood though. So much so that when I visited the States for the first time and my cousins were excited to hear what my impressions were after the drive from the airport to their (my aunt’s) home, I had to disappoint them by saying, “It looked like what I have already seen in the films so I didn’t feel much surprise”. I can’t say the same thing about how our films depict say Mumbai (with exceptions like Satya). They are too embarrassed to show even BKC without photoshopping like hell.
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brangan
November 3, 2016
MANK: I disagree that there is something called a “higher” aesthetic. There is a way of doing things, yes. There is KJo’s way of doing things (or worldview, if you will). And there is Imtiaz Ali’s way of doing things. Neither one is “inherently” better or higher — though, of course, our internal programming will cause us to gravitate towards one or the other (or both, in my case).
IMO, Imtiaz Ali’s movies are set in as much of a la-la land (I mean, when was the last time you saw poverty or at least middle-class-ness in an Imtiaz Ali movie? Ahista Ahista, which he wrote? BTW, I just love that movie, despite its problematic cast.) But because he gives you angsty characters in an angsty mode, his mode of movie-making appears to gave more truth or integrity. It’s conditioning, and it’s another kind of stereotyping — that if a character is like X, then the treatment should also be like X.
And I think that when KJo takes X and treats it like Y (in a ‘relatively’ lighter way), it causes some kind of “dissonance.” The kind of dissonance that happens when — to take an out-there example, though not a comparison — we see Spielberg take on Kubrick’s characters in AI. I love that film to the bottom of the heart and have seen it umpteen times, but I also know it’s not a perfect film and a very problematic one. And the major problem is that of a sunny vision percolating into a dark world.
So it’s ultimately about whether you can live with this or not. It’s perfectly understandable that this can be a deal-breaker for some. But you cannot say characters have to be treated realistically or a certain way. For me, neither Ali’s films nor KJo’s films are about realism. The truths or the content in them are purely at an emotional level — the way we watch soaps or heightened melodrama. In other words, for me, it’s about emotional logic and not logical logic. And that works very well for me here.
In the sense that a soap is a valid an art form in itself. A melodrama is a valid art form in itself. You don’t have to do a Douglas Sirk on a soap, or a Fassbinder on melodrama — i.e. you shouldn’t have to recast it — in order to validate the genre. It is what it is, and it’s more about our tolerance/liking for it.
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rothrocks
November 3, 2016
@ MANK Thanks, you said it much better than I could have (as usual) :). To quickly compare with JWM there we get to see a lot of Kareena’s family, we meet Shahid’s estranged mother, we see him in the meetings and with his close associates, we even see the office of that travels wala duffer. JWM has its own flaws but at least Imtiaz is trying to help us understand where the characters are coming from and why they behave the way they do. And it’s mostly done unobtrusively without sounding like we’re being fed factoids. I was very much with ADHM through the first half being it’s more light hearted. But as these loaded emotions began to be unloaded on the audience in the second half I began to question the film and the ending completely lost me.
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brangan
November 3, 2016
MANK: Also wanted to add that I did not see this — at least as much as you did — as KJo doing an Imtiaz Ali movie. Rather, to me, the Ali nods are as much “cultural appropriations” as the Yash Johar nods etc. In Rockstar, the entire film was about the man making better music through more pain. Here, that angle is just a nod. The film begins with Ranbir wanting Anushka. It ends the same way. So that’s the story, with the Ali bits being “filmi” homages like all the other homages in this movie.
Hence these lines in my review: “But there’s also a different kind of experimentation, where Johar is asking, “How much of the Hindi cinema that some of us adore can I still hold on to while making movies for audiences that prefer Bollywood?” ”
Johar’s formula is 50% sincerity, 50% self-aware winking. And wanking.
I mean, if one can swallow the coincidences in something like Casablanca, one should certainly have no problem with ADHM 😉
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Anu Warrier
November 3, 2016
MANK, I have a problem with Imitiaz Ali being seen as ‘realistic’, or as BR says, of a ‘higher aesthetic’. Smacks of an intellectual snobbery to me. And don’t get me wrong here – I love Imitiaz’s take on relationships. And I’m probably one of the few people who actually loved Tamasha. But where the devil is ‘realism’ there? Where is the middle class you people claim to want to see and excoriate Johar for not showing? In Tamasha, two twenty-somethings can go traipsing off to Corsica, one loses money, passport and suitcases, and can afford to wait for her parents to wire her money (so obviously they have enough to spend twice over); four years later, there they are jetsetting all over the place again. Ranbir’s or Deepika’s apartments, the life they lead, the lifestyle they have – nothing is organic or ‘real’.
For all of you who exalt Imitiaz Ali and scorn Karan Johar, what’s the difference? They are both formulaic film makers. Ali is stuck on one theme – the development of the man-child and his ‘awakening’ by an outside force, usually a strong-willed woman who is more put together. This is the theme he’s been peddling right from day one. And I’m fine with it. I like the way he tells his stories. Johar peddles the angst of the poor little rich boy(s). I’m fine with some of it, and certainly in ADHM, I found much to like.
What’s the ‘lack of taste’ in the club? Is what I, and P and others who have liked the movie, are asking? That she close-danced with him? Have you been inside a nightclub here or elsewhere? You’ll find a whole bunch of people doing just this. From a social anthropological perspective, it is very interesting to see people who have just met, dance the most intimate of dances. We have already established that Ayan and Saba are attracted to each other – this is just the physical manifestation of that desire. I don’t know what you feel about it, but An Jo seemed to take umbrage at the overt display – calling it ‘modern’ and ‘liberated’ as if those terms are somehow inherently pejorative. And as if, Saba, as an Urdu poet, couldn’t/shouldn’t be behaving that way. (As an aside, why does a woman’s sexuality frighten people so much that they have to take refuge in the aesthetics of the scene?)
All I’m saying is that in Alizeh and Saba, we had two women who initiated their relationships, took charge of them, directed the course of their relationships, and decided for themselves when to stop/walk out. For that, Just. For. That. I will applaud Johar. And yes, perhaps I’m also ‘modern’ and ‘liberated’. You know what? I refuse to be ashamed of it. Or be shamed out of it. (And that’s not directed at you, personally, by the way.)
All that said; as I wrote before, those of us who like the film don’t need reasons to like it. For those of you who don’t, no reason will be enough. So in this case, much as I hate the phrase, let’s agree to disagree. 🙂
(I have written my vishesh tippani for the day. Over and out.)
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Anu Warrier
November 3, 2016
And because I obviously can’t stop talking: Madan, when Johar shows the family, he’s excoriated. Here, he sticks to the story he wants to tell – Ayan’s unrequited love for Alizeh. He begins with that, and he ends with it. [And he’s scalped, The guy just can’t win.]
So the parents are disposed of in one short scene which explains that Ayan is private-jet rich, and Alizeh is raeez, her parents are ameer. His mother ran off when he was two, he’s expected to do an MBA to run his father’s business, and he wants to be a singer. She’s the youngest of five siblings, and unlike other youngest who are kids, she is not the family favourite.
Damn it, what exactly do you want? 🙂
Anyway, see my last paragraph to MANK. I’m sure Johar will survive without my defence.
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rothrocks
November 3, 2016
Re Imtiaz I have not watched his films post Love Aaj Kal. Which itself was imo kinda hollow (though the near total lack of chemistry between DP and Saif hurt here). Maybe he’s stuck too. I would not know as I have moved onto Shoojit Sircar. Now if his own directed films start to become like Pink (and I agreed with the message of the film so let’s get that out of the way) I may have to move on yet another time. I am not beholden to any one director and why would I do that for that would be so boring. FWIW I do agree with Anu that it was good to see KJ craft liberated women in his film. But that, like Pink, is just the message aspect and I am interested in the narration first and foremost. Back to Imtiaz as much as I liked JWM I think the line “You’re no Jack Kennedy (either)” is apt here.
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Aditya (Gradwolf)
November 3, 2016
Hehe lack of “middle class” problem in Bollywood and too much “lower class” problem in Kollywood. narayana
PS: Kidding. light-hearted like ADHM first half
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P
November 3, 2016
Anu: Just for your “visesh tippani” being so smack on, I am going to never say another word about feminists on BR’s blogs. Ever.
WAH! Superb. I could kiss you- that was THAT superb.
In other news, this thread is also pretty brilliant. Tunal Thakur who once interviewed BR has written some pretty smack down things even though he’s not particularly a fan of the movie.
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P
November 3, 2016
As for the club scene. I have been dying to find that mix of Aaj Jaane Ki Zidd so I can practise those moves to devastating effect 😉 Thankfully being a “serious” writer and dancing sexually in a club is not seen as two activities that are that disparate by every man or I would be forever alone 😉
And people have already started using “Hatt! Free hai tu!” in conversations! Lisa Haydon used “Vaatavaran” to describe her honeymoon location on insta 😉 The lines and scenes from this one are going to be as epically cultural milestones as the ones from KHNH 😛
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
November 3, 2016
P : Is it Vaataavaran or Paryaavaran ? LOL Jus kidding
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rothrocks
November 3, 2016
It was vatavaran only. Somebody tell MNS to rename Ambience to Vatavaran. Or maybe not! It might just come true! 😛
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Deepak Jeswal
November 3, 2016
@An Jo : I don’t get the logic that Saba couldn’t have written the title song. Does it mean that all shayars have to go thru heartbreak or have unrequited love to write good poetry on the heartbreak topic ? That way an Anand Bakshi or Sahir or Majrooh or numerous lyricists couldn’t have written all those songs.
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Deepak Jeswal
November 3, 2016
Regarding Saba’s wealth there was a line thrown in about lawyers fleecing her husband or something similar. I assume she received a hefty settlement / alimony on divorce from her obviously celebrated and rich husband.
These were hardly the problems with the film. Sigh.
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P
November 3, 2016
@sriravishanker: no clue what that means. don’t know what these big words mean 90% of the time.
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Ronak Gupta
November 3, 2016
Great review! Personally I thought this was Johar’s best work. Its brilliant how he has added a certain deft touch to his direction. Even the songs in the movie are used as devices and not simply as a magnanimous routine with hundred extras. The scene in which Ranbir hugs a lampost and the camera simply stays there, then cuts to Ranbir’s face singing the title track. You’d be hard pressed to find such a moment of such silence and power in any of his previous films.
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Shalini
November 3, 2016
@BR – Thanks for the pointer to “Ahista Ahista”, had somehow missed watching this – off to find it now. And agree on ADHM – I saw it as both the accumulation and distillation of Hindi cinema, Bollywood and KJo’s own prior works. As the header of the review says – very satisfying.
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MANK
November 3, 2016
Brangan & Anu
Now this is going to be a big one. but you asked for it. 🙂 . i humbly dedicate this to the loving memory of our departed Utkal
*I disagree that there is something called a “higher” aesthetic. *
Where is the middle class you people claim to want to see and excoriate Johar for not showing? *
OK , ill call it a different aesthetic. Also i was using realism akin to truthfulness . truthfulness of the characters and their interrelations in the context of the world the directors are creating. so lets not fight over semantics anymore. 🙂
As for Ali, well Highway was pretty down to earth and realistic in ‘Realisim’ sense, even though there are still fantasy elements. Now the problem here is not whether i agree with Ali’s aesthetic or disagree with KJo’s or i find Ali’s more realistic than KJo’s. As i said about his K3G, KJo ka world KJo ko mubarak ho, i may not relate to that , but i dont grudge him that. His characters in those films are as hyperbolic and cheesy as the world he creates. And no i dont want KJo to tackle middle class subjects. it might turn out to be an exercise in absurdity . ill get my fix of middle class films and lower class films from malayalam and tamil .I only have an issue with him specifically on this film.
Also wanted to add that I did not see this — at least as much as you did — as KJo doing an Imtiaz Ali movie. Rather, to me, the Ali nods are as much “cultural appropriations” as the Yash Johar nods etc.
For all of you who exalt Imitiaz Ali and scorn Karan Johar, what’s the difference? They are both formulaic film makers.
I dont agree with both the statements. Its more than a nod and there is a difference here. ill try to illustrate it by comparing this film to Ali’s work..
Take Tamasha ,the narrative is very fractured, non linear and told from multiple perspectives..the perspective shifts from the heroine to the hero in the second half . now its part fantasy part reality. or at least its presented that way initially. but if i have to split it into acts. the first act would be the meeting and the adventures of RK and DP until they part . the second act deals with DP’s heartbreak and yearning for RK. the third act is RK coming back in to her life and she sees him for what he is in real – or at least what he thinks is his real self – and breaking up with him. in the fourth act , the perspective shifts to RK, he meets an auto driver who is a version of himself which triggers his real ambitions and self again, the film go back in time and we find about his growing up and stuff. and the final act is getting back with DP and ending up -what he started out be in performing arts – .what started out as fantasy is now reality
when the film begins you dont have much idea who the 2 protagonists are, or why the go on behaving like they do.. the much of the first half is like a riddle. Now its in the second half that you get the gist of the film. Ranbir is caught up in this boring dreary life and the first half was his way of going on a holiday and living out his fantasies. but that is not he is or at least he thinks he is not. While DP loves the guy from the fantasies and dont want anything to do with the guy in real life. And in the end he find his true self and finally lands in his fantasy world for real . this whole world that Ali is creating has come together in front of our eyes, like pieces of a riddle coming together. in it every character that randomly pops up, whether , the auto driver , the unreliable story teller are all inclusive to both the world that is being created and organic to the story thats being told.
thats the truthfulness or realism, i am talking about. yes he gets self indulgent a lot in the first half and may be the transformation contrast between the 2 personas of Ranbir is a little unconvincing. but it all fits perfectly in to the riddle like nature of the film.i was very exasperated and confused when i say the film for the first time , even though i felt there was a lot of great things in here. but it all came together in the subsequent viewings, the sheer brilliance of his conceit and its execution.
Now coming to KJo and this film, its a very straightforward ,traditional film narrative . and its told completely from RK’s perspective. if i cut the film in to seperate acts , then the first act would be the bonding of Anushka and Ranbir, first in the company of exes, then by singing old hindi songs , RK begins to flower in her company , etc etc on an on it goes. this act is the epitome of the bridge that Brangan is talking about between Hindi and bollywood. or between Ali and Kjo that i am talking about. the bonding is in the territory of Tamasha or Highway, but KJo brings in his sensibilities rather seamlessly Both the aesthetics seem to mesh very well here.both the characterization and plot moves organically.
The second act would be where AS comes in contact with her ex FK. this act also starts of well , AS and RK break up, they go their separate ways. she goes to Lucknow for her nuptials, he goes wherever his jet takes him. he goes back to her for her marriage , he starts feeling the loss and pain. now here KJo is getting in to Rockstar territory, Ayan is feeling heartbreak and pain and becomes unhinged he starts spinning like a top and belts out channa meraya – exactly like Jordan does phir se ud chala.- now the melodrama really kicks in with his antics with the pot and double middle finger as he walks out of her life. But unlike his earlier films, KJo does not over do it. he holds himself back pretty well here unlike in his earlier films were there would have a been a crying fiesta unleashed in such a scene.
Now comes the third act where he meets Aishwarya. this is the most problematic character and act for me. the problem with ARB’s character is, that this is the most cunningly and calculatedly created in the whole film. its just not organic and shows KJos film making dilemma – in combining the 2 aesthetics – to the fullest. he wants her to be the poetess, tawaif in the Rekha mode – saying the most old fashioned poetry, being the lover of old fashioned songs, etc on the other hand he wants her to be the hot sexy older women that the Bollywood crowd can identify with. The character seems to spring right out of Ayan’s unhinged mind at that point in the film rather than from the linear narrative of the film.. A women who would fall for him at the the first sight and pass him a book of poetry and her phone no. one who just drags him down in the club and have sex. she is just too fantastic. he just seem to be making up a character in his head in contrast to the character of AS -who called him a bad kisser and would not consummate the relationship with him-. it has nothing to do with her adhering or not adhering to a stereotype of a poetess or a modern women .or rather KJo himself is creating a stereotype of his own by combing 2 existing filmi stereotypes simply for his convenience. that whole act , up until AR breaks with RK is pure fantasy and purely artificial in the film up until that time. hence all these questions about her economic status, her poetry,vagher vaghera , all because she simply seems out of place there.Now i would say , i enjoyed this act in a more guilty pleasure kind of way.
The next 2 acts, go way down south.and we see KJo hit the Rockstar mode again. Ayan becoming a popular singer. then he meets FK and realises that AS has left him. this ends the fourth act
last act – well i have already written about it – is a real slog and its perfectly calculated and constructed at his own convenience – and very separate from the original narrative he started – . as the third act. everything about it , her reappearance , the disease , the ending, everything goes like clockwork.. i dont think he is giving a nod to KHNH, he basically remixing the old formula for the new Fault in the stars crowd.
now regarding the main subject matter he tackles here – ek tharfa pyar, confusion between friendship and Love , these are subjects he has been tackling from his first film. KKHH was an archies comics version of the same subjects presented through the filter of our hindi film melodrama. Its segues from being a yash chopra film in to Nasir Hussein film even while keeping comic book sensibility of the characters intact. In that scenario, question of what happened to Kajol in the interim when SRK was not there, how did she make the transformation from being a tomboy to a grown women, etc etc doesn’t matter . you last see Kajol boarding the train as this impulsive , love hurt tomboy , next when you see her, she is a mature grown women at her engagement.you just go along with it.if she was to turn up with a bald head suffering from cancer, you have no problem going along with it either.That’s his comfort zone , his formula and it works very well there.just not here.
That’s what seperate Ali from KJo, What’s formula for KJo is actually a conceit for Ali, to make something more layered and complex and hence i find it it a higher aesthetic.
The film begins with Ranbir wanting Anushka. It ends the same way. So that’s the story
This i agree. The good thing about the whole film is that RK and AS characters remain consistent , That and the fact that he is a much improved filmmaker in the ‘technical’ sense that i mentioned in an earlier post. his technique has improved vastly. thats why i could stay with it most of the way through, but alas the beginning to end is fraught with so much discrepancies.
I dont know whether i could get through much of what i wanted to convey properly,i may have been limited by my Linguistic abilities , but my emotional logic is clear 🙂
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Anuja Chandramouli
November 3, 2016
Spoiler alert
ADHM kinda sorta worked for me. ‘His instincts are extraordinary (watch him look into a mirror and admit he wants to be with Alizeh) and there’s no other actor as much at ease with his feminine side, which makes his line readings off-the-charts unpredictable. But it’s time to retire this man-child.’
Could not agree with you more there BR! It was interesting that he played Ayan with a certain gay vibe and seemed to have nailed the cattiness and spite that occasionally comes across in KJo himself on shows like ‘Koffee with Karan’. Imagine hurting the woman you are so deeply in love with on her wedding day no less ( and she had reached out to him because her parents had kicked her out!)! Or the way he rubbed his relationship with Saba in her face and the brutal tongue lashing he forced her to endure because she wouldn’t bite and let us not forget how he made sexual advances when she was weak from chemotherapy… Whew! That is some brutal and seriously hardcore stuff. It was brave of RK and KJO both to put themselves out there.
It is too bad that ADHM had to face such a backlash and there seems to be no end to this nonsense especially with the recent Rafi related kerfuffle. I had a small taste of it myself recently and believe me it was scary as hell!
During the interval in a determined bid to stop myself from rushing off to the snack counter for a giant tub of caramel popcorn, I decided to share my thoughts on the handsomeness of He – who – must – not – be – named (rocking a righteous beard!) on Twitter, except I had made the grievous error of naming him.
At the end of the movie, when I whipped out my phone, I was surprised at the virulent reactions from some of the charming folks out there. A lot of it was incoherent drivel but mostly it was about my anti – national ways, chaddis and vulgar obsession with the male appendages belonging to citizens of a neighbouring nation. I was so horrified my first instinct was to remove the damn tweet, flee and cower under the bed. Fortunately better sense kicked in and I decided to block the haters instead.
After that traumatic incident, I have decided to think more kindly of KJo for caving in to the extortionists and shelling out 5 crores. It’s scary but the prevalent climate is hardly one in which artistes can thrive on. I mean seriously!
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MANK
November 3, 2016
Brangan,so your bridge that is strong and steady in the first act, a bit wobbly in the second act develops irreparable damage in the third act. But it’s the fifth act that is the real bridge breaker for me. But I enjoyed the walkthrough the bridge as long as it lasted. 😃.
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Anamika
November 3, 2016
This comment space is such a time sink and I am starting to worry that it will stop soon 🙂
Honestly, if I see the movie after reading the views of people who liked it, I may (may) “get” the nuances. As a standalone film, it did not work for me. Narrative wise there was lack of consistency. I did not feel Anushka’s one sided friendship or her selfishness until I read the comments here and then it made sense. The build up of Ranbir’s love for her was again a problem. I just could not feel it, like say how Deepika showed her love for Bajirao.
A good movie should try to bring that out and I think KJo failed there which is where people are complaining. Maybe the editing was rushed. I don’t know. It is left to us to decipher.
Ash was the only one whose actions and lines easily conveyed her personality as someone who is extremely self aware. There too the ek tarfa love of ex-husband still bothers me but we can ignore that.
Usually BR’s review puts in words the like or dislike I felt for a movie. Not this time
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MANK
November 3, 2016
(As an aside, why does a woman’s sexuality frighten people so much that they have to take refuge in the aesthetics of the scene?)
Anu not at all, for me the emergence of such a character and it’s artificiality in the narrative of the film was the issue. the concept of poetess unleashing her sexuality in a nightclub was never the issue with me. Hell that’s what we guys go the clubs for 😂.
*And yes, perhaps I’m also ‘modern’ and ‘liberated’. You know what? I refuse to be ashamed of it. Or be shamed out of it *
Anu, I wouldn’t have you any other way😃
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MANK
November 3, 2016
Just for your “visesh tippani” being so smack on, I am going to never say another word about feminists on BR’s blogs. Ever.
Dher aaye magar durusth aaye. 😉
Its too bad for Brangan, now the number of comments is going to be considerably shorter😂
WAH! Superb. I could kiss you- that was THAT superb.
There is no middle ground with you is there, only in the extremes.
Anu, Like we say in our town. Onnikil aasante nenjathu allengil kalarikkuparathu.😂, Let’s see this dosti kab tak chalti hai😃
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P
November 4, 2016
MANK: Are you trying to be mean or sarcastic? Do you not like the length of my comments or something? Do you think I can’t be friends with people or something? Whatever you are trying to convey, its not working! 😀
I loved the vaaaaatavarn that Anu created with her amazing comments and since I wanted to thank her in action and not just in words, to stop doing something which she doesn’t like and which I generally do as an afterthought was the simplest way to express my gratitude.
Truly passionate people have no middle ground 🙂 Didn’t understand the rest of what you said- alien language! 😀 I just about get by in Hindi/Tamil – don’t make me learn another one!
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Garvit Sharma
November 4, 2016
Saba is a character meant to be a “swim ring” to support Ayan before he finally learns to deep dive into his love for Alizeh. Her words give him the capability to articulate his feelings,mature as an artist and finally to make him realise how futile his efforts are of running away from his fate through sexual gratification or eliciting jealousy and guilt from Alizeh. In their first meeting she tells Ayan of what his eyes project to her and after dinner with Alizeh she will always see Alizeh in his eyes which to her surprise is unbearable to her.Ayan then seeks leave of Alizeh like he originally meant to do in her wedding when he burst into singing “Accha chalta hun, duaaon mein yaad rakhna” and breaks down again after coming out of the hotel stressing upon how consumed he will always be with his feelings for Alizeh rendering him incapable of truly loving someone again.
How does he of all people navigate through these uncharted waters?
This is where Saba serves the best purpose for Ayan. She introduces Tahir (SRK,her ex) whose name literally means “religious purity”. it is Tahir who sermonises Ayan about how pure unrequited love can be depending on the power of “bandagi”(prayer) of the practitioner.
Regarding Alizeh’s selfishness IMO, it would have been selfish for her to leave Ayan alone in the climax as a complete wreck. Either he would have moved heaven and earth to find her and apologise or he would have never forgiven himself of hurting Alizeh. We all know how the guy slept on that roof in his resolve to meet Alizeh in the cold
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Anu Warrier
November 4, 2016
he wants her to be the poetess, tawaif in the Rekha mode – saying the most old fashioned poetry, being the lover of old fashioned songs, etc on the other hand he wants her to be the hot sexy older women that the Bollywood crowd can identify with.
This is the argument I find the most problematic. Since when are loving old-fashioned songs and being ‘hot sexy older woman’ mutually exclusive? I find this a worse stereotype than anything Johar comes up with. What with people in the comments complaining that Saba cannot speak the Urdu she does (why?), or cannot like an ‘old-fashioned pursuit’ like Urdu poetry (since when did Urdu poetry become ‘old fashioned’, and if it is, why can’t she both be hot and sexy and still like to write Urdu poetry?) and now, she cannot be both hot and sexy and like ‘old-fashioned’ songs – You know what? It is true that while women have to work doubly hard to be taken seriously, beautiful women, hot, sexy women, if you will, just cannot get a break! They can’t have any intellectual pursuits because they are hot and sexy. One would think that being hot and sexy is their only responsibility or job in this world.
Really, MANK? ‘Old-fashioned songs’? [This from a guy who recently listened to Aaraatu kadavil on a loop?!) Those songs are classic for a reason.They are mixed and remixed for a reason – because even today, they call to the youth just as much as they do to the generation that grew up with them. Heck, those songs belong to my father’s generation, or even older. Why do we like them? Why does my 11-year-old go ape over Baar baar dekho and Mohe panghat pe? Both films were released years before I was born!) He probably knows more about Helen and her songs, especially Piya tu ab toh aa jaa, than Helen does.
A women who would fall for him at the the first sight and pass him a book of poetry and her phone no. one who just drags him down in the club and have sex. she is just too fantastic.
Why? She’s not in love with him. If anything, she’s sexually attracted to him, and that is all there is to it. In Vienna, she tells him she’s not looking for a relationship. She wants only to be someone’s desire, not their need. There’s no place in her life for commitment. She is the antithesis of Alizeh – who wants the junoon of love. When Saba falls in love, she walks away. She is as consistent in her truth as Alizeh is to hers.
Is it so hard to understand lust? A no-strings-attached relationship where both people understand each other? Us rishte ko kya naam doon? Kyun naam doon?
As someone posted on the web, it’s fine that you didn’t like the movie. Don’t look so hard for reasons to justify not liking it!
And here’s another vishesh tippani. Kaykay, my friend, I think I have usurped your position and/or perhaps marhoom Utkal’s. BR, my apologies. I think I will go and watch this film again instead of wasting my time, and your comment space. 🙂
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brangan
November 4, 2016
Garvit Sharma: Tahir (SRK,her ex) whose name literally means “religious purity”\
Thanks you for that. I felt there was an “ishq ibaadat” element to that scene — the way it is written, and especially the way SRK plays it — and now it does seem to be so.
Anu and others: Please, please do not keep apologising for long comments. It’s the reason for this blog’s existence. The reviews/pieces are merely the starting point for these exchanges and I am privileged to host them.
Anu: I continue to be baffled by the obviousness of what you (continue to) point out and the inability of some viewers to not get this. But hey…
MANK: Your arguments are usually far more convincing. Not this time, though. And you know why? Because you lurrved the film and are just trying to poke holes in it to appear cool. Fess up dude. As Aamir says in DCH, “Mard ban. Be a man” 😀
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rothrocks
November 4, 2016
Anu/BR: Neither I nor MANK is saying an Urdu poetess should not be hip and sexy too. I will try one more time with a different example: If Lauren Weisberger turned out a book of poetry written in 18th century English, would you not be even 1% surprised? I know I would be and my reaction to the characterisation of Saba is similar. It’s not my unwillingness to accept her choices but my surprise at how the film handles it as if in the world of Ayan lal’s haseen sapne one meets a Saba every other day. So please do not make this about women’s issues. If I can accept Annie Haslam in a two piece bikini I can accept Saba. But the mystique such a character potentially holds out is destroyed in KJ’s attempt to simultaneously make her appear contemporary. Whether stereotypes are good or bad is beside the point; one has to acknowledge they exist and affect our perceptions. When a college mate of mine found out I listened to heavy metal she was like “I didn’t think of you as that type of guy”. Now should I have lashed out at her ‘mindset’? Apparently yes, going by this thread! I did no such thing of course because I know I don’t look like a typical heavy metal dude. And I don’t feel offended in acknowledging that such a thing exists.
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An Jo
November 4, 2016
@ MANk:
I bow before before you for explaining far, far better than I could ever dream of with regard to the problems I had with this ‘sham’ of a Karan Johar film. Thank you. I know you are kinder than me and the film worked better for you than for me. But am grateful to you for positing so finely what I have been complaining about, obviously, in a failed manner here..
With regard to the dishonesty of KJo and his ilk trying to usurp Imtiaz’s territory and the lack of obvious ‘truthfulness’ – not realism — that’s the fundamental problem I have had with this film: And that’s why I decided to watch this movie, once when not drunk, and once when I was drunk..The sham was crystal-clear to me..especially post-Imtiaz’s works..
I wanted to write EXACTLY the same thing you wrote about TAMASHA and Imtiaz’s conceit..but you did a fantastically better job at that… and thank you for sparing me the time..
@ Anu:
Apologize if you felt I was ‘hyper-ventilating.’ With Karan Johar’s films, just tea-bags don’t do the work, you need real stuff..It was condescending to me, but fine, it was at least not as insulting as ‘only strippers visit night clubs’..so am grateful to you for that..
And I hope it’s quite clear by now what my complaints about this film or the ‘stripper’ line is..the ‘aesthetics’ of a Karan Johar film versus the societal consumptions of a woman who’s not afraid or shy of her sexuality; of a woman who has her own mind.
I am still not clear as to who you think wrote the lyrics for the title song, Sabah or Ayan..yes, it’s quite clear that he has endured pain by that time..still doesn’t explain.. well, I will let it go.. after all, this is a ‘mature’ film where Alizeh and Ayan take a private jet to Paris or where-ever and Alizeh still admonishes Ayan not to indulge in the mini-bar since it ‘costs.’…
And the reason I was so ‘defensive’ about my explanations was the tendency I observed — especially since May 2014, about ‘boxing’ in people, especially from the broad-minded liberals..I don’t have any degree in anthropology or women’s studies..but I have my bloody basics right..and i know to respect women and their choices: .there, I said that..
…
The greatest laugh for Karan Johar — apart from laughing all the way to the bank — is the fact that an ‘academic’ critic like BR Saab’s post got around 200+ comments..
There’s a difference between the ‘cultural appropriations’ that BR Saab talks about and this sham that’s ADHM..
AGNEEPATH owes much to DEEWAR; it’s a modern DEEWAR, but what Mukul Anand brought to it was a fantastic originality in terms of the wedding of technology with the rich Ja-Salim-Javed masala of the ’70s. DEEWAR owes its roots to GANGA JAMUNA as well as to Brando’s ON THE WATERFRONT; But you see the difference here honest film-making? Please watch — and I am not being condescending to you or anybody by alluding that you haven’t watched — each film on its own merits and decide for yourself, with the same thread binding all the 4 films, why as an audience, you come out richer each time…
I rest my case here; wouldn’t like to accord the mature KJo more honor..
I will wait for the next ‘most personal film’ of Aditya Chopra — you know, the film where he had a personal chat with his dead father Yash Chopra — on Dec 9th where one of the most personal scenes could be the one where Vaani robs a mannequin of his underwear or where Mr. Ranveer decides to walk into a party of fully-suited men and women with a red undie..
—
I rest my case here; for folks who found ‘maturity’ in this film, very happy for you, for folks who didn’t, well, better luck next time.. perhaps you need to beat your chest a couple more times with a tulsi pot…
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Rahini David
November 4, 2016
I am mildly reminded of the objection people had with Minsara Kanavu. Kajol is happy and fun and wears mini-skirts all the time and wants to be a nun. It created a lot of dissonance in quite a lot of people.
Some people claimed that this should be put down to the creators not wanting to keep Kajol’s legs under wraps and spoil the fun of the viewers. They said if they wanted to show Kajol as a REAL religious girl, she would have to be shown wearing very different type of clothes. Negative. Those who felt the dissonance to ask THEMSELVES and not Rajiv Menon why they felt that way about mini-skirts and religious inclinations. Same seems to be the case here.
And I was thinking the same about the length of the comments. It isn’t as if it is a limited resource.
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musicofchance
November 4, 2016
Loved this discussion, thanks all. What a world apart from the rest of the www, I doff my hat.
Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this, but would anyone care to talk about why they find Zoya A’s films/voice dishonest? I’d be grateful for any two bits on this, though I know it’s a sweeping question. I didn’t know what to make of the related comments above.
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musicofchance
November 4, 2016
That is to say, I don’t know enough to be able to ask a pointed question, but I’m really intrigued.
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brangan
November 4, 2016
An Jo: No one here is calling this a ‘mature’ film or saying that KJo has ‘matured’ as an artist. (Whatever that means.) In the sense that those of us who like the film aren’t liking it because of this maturity thing.
But those of us who do like the film do not find a dissonance in Ayan owning a jet and Alizeh’s warning about the mini bar. Because it’s an instinctive thing to many middle-class-turned-upper-middle-class people even now. It doesn’t go away easily. It’s not all that implausible that Alizeh is like that. Now if Ayan said that, yes, it’s ridiculous. But when she says it, it’s not all that off. Especially because it’s not a deeply thought-out statement. It’s more of an impulsive response to his kiddish enthusiasm.
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MANK
November 4, 2016
MANK: Are you trying to be mean or sarcastic? Do you not like the length of my comments or something? Do you think I can’t be friends with people or something?
Punee, i was just kidding with you as i am sure you are just kidding with me now. After all the commentary space we shared together ,i suppose we don’t need to explain that to each other . As for the alien tongue, i was just reminding about an old kahavath to represent your truth or dare spirit :). it doesn’t translate well in to english
Anu, that entire comment was unnecessary, i mean totally unnecessary. we are like 2 blind people holding on to that elephant , you are describing the trunk , i am describing the tail.
At least you could have given me the benefit of doubt as being the guy who loops arattu kadavil – oh i am still looping that , this time alternatively with the bengali version- so there 🙂
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MANK
November 4, 2016
“Mard ban. Be a man”
Brangan, 🙂 i had a hearty laugh at that one. well what do you think i am trying to do here. going against the holy trinity of you, Punee and Anu when you are all on the same page.
I did say i loved most of the film, but it was not fully satisfying watch for me and it will be very dishonest of me if i didnt mention my misgivings here, even if at the risk of being misunderstood or misconstrued, which most unfortunately is what is happening here
i think there are 4 scenarios that develop when you watch a film
You notice a few problems , but they dont stand in the way of your enjoyment of the film
You find a lot of problems and those problems come between your enjoyment of the film
the film is good and perfect in all ways and you still dont like it
I see that the film falls in to the first and second category for you
for me in this film, the first half fall in to the first category, the 2 acts in the second half fall in to the second category and the last act fall directly in to the third category. now i think it was Stanley Kubrick who said that the last 15 mins of the film is the key. it doesnt matter what the film is before that , if we screw up the last 15 mins , then the whole film is screwed. thats what happened to me here. i liked a lot of it, but with the last act spoiled , the overall feeling is that i didnt like it.
Rahini, if it was the minsarakanavu kind of situation, there was no real problem. the problem here is that the issue that I, or Madan or An Joare pointing out and the issue Anu & co are commenting on are totally different. we are speaking about the metaphor, the symbol, the dishonest concept employed by the filmmaker in a given scenario in his narrative , while they are taking it completely literally and grandstanding on that.
i am disapointed that i couldnt get the idea across properly and my epic post was totally in vain. only to be faced with more angst, more derision and what not. we certainly don’t deserve it. it makes me both angry and sad at the same time that i cant get it across what i see so clearly. i would like to give it another go, but its going to be useless in this situation. why keep on increasing the number of comments with no purpose
On that note, i suppose my time and my energy will be better spend else where, ciao
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Rahini David
November 4, 2016
Madan,
If I am not very wrong, a cab-driver once drove this vehicle into a ditch when he realized that BR knew about obscure old Illayaraja songs. I was once mouthing the lyrics of “Deivam thantha veedu veethi irukku” in a local bus and realized that a man was staring at me with mouth agape as he apparently did not think I’d know the lyrics of songs like that by-heart. Yes, we all get instances like that and mostly it amuses rather than infuriates us. In fact, it can at times please us that we are not cut out of the same mold that almost all our peers are.
And most often we are not very wrong in these assumptions we make about people. We assume that a certain type of women will be non-smokers and that a certain type of people will be vegetarians. Quite often we are correct. But this must be annoying for those women who like to smoke and Brahmins who are into non-vegetarian food. But what do you do when you meet an obviously Brahmin lady in, say, KFC? It is not that you should not be surprised. It is not that you should not even mention that you are surprised. But I am sure you agree there are limits to HOW surprised you can look about it if you want to be considered a polite person. In fact, considering that she would have been interrogated endlessly about a dietary choice that most people make almost instinctively, I’d say that it is only sensible that we give an acknowledging smile and accept her as a non-vegetarian like all other non-vegetarians.
So we have a few examples here.
1) Baradwaj Rangan and obscure Illayaraja Songs
2) Madan and Heavy Metal Rock
3) Rahini David and old thathuva paadals
4) Brahmin Woman and Non-vegetarianism (hypothetical example but sure there are few people who are this)
5) Village Belle and smoking habit (hypothetical example but sure there are few people who are this)
6) Urdu Poetess and Partying in Discotheques
In the first 3 examples, it is not as if the person with the original prejudice started to disrespect us in his/her mind. Like “Chee, I thought you are a terrific guy/gal but you seem to know Illayaraja/ MSV/ Steve Tyler, I can’t respect you anymore”.
The difference is that people usually act as if they have lost all respect that they usually reserve for Brahmin women and Village Belles and Urdu Poetesses once they realize their inclinations. The women are quite often treated with such open derision that should be seen to be believed and trust me it is QUITE different.
You may say that you’d not treat a real life urdu poetess badly just because she knew a thing or two about dancing in a dance floor. But people who felt that they could not BUY the whole thing should spare a thought to WHY they could not buy the whole thing rather than just assume that Karan Johar screwed the thing up. Maybe it is YOUR mind that is screwing you up.
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Rahul
November 4, 2016
Ì have skimmed through the comments so maybe I missed something but I am responding to this
MANK –
The character seems to spring right out of Ayan’s unhinged mind at that point in the film rather than from the linear narrative of the film.. A women who would fall for him at the the first sight and pass him a book of poetry and her phone no. one who just drags him down in the club and have sex. she is just too fantastic
ARB’s character will make more sense if you read Altman’s post and think of her as a Pakistani. To make a few generalizations from my experience, Urdu language and poetry is a thing among modern rich expat Pakistanis, it is not exclusively a symbol of an imagined feel good Umrao Jan and Mirza Ghalib type of nostalgia like it is for Indians, though it is that too. Bollywood is universally a thing among all expat Pakistanis, even more than it is for Indians. Lastly, a lot of page 3 type of Pakistanis immigrate, probably a higher percentage than that of Indians. Take it for whatever it’s worth.
The perceived surrealism by some of the ARB + SRK sequence worked for me due to other reasons as well, about which I have already written.
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Rahini David
November 4, 2016
Just to clarify, my comment above is to Madan’s remark about the Heavy Metal comment and not about this movie. I admit that I have not made head or tails of most comments here.
MANK: I can’t really comment about the dissonance you saw in this movie and I certainly can’t guarantee that I’d would not feel similar to what you felt had I watched it. Sometimes you just don’t buy a plot contrivance as you don’t buy the character behaving in a certain way and that is quite natural. But you are really saying something about old fashioned poetesses and dancing queens here and if you are NOT actually saying old fashioned poetesses don’t dance like that then WHAT are you saying? Are you saying they USUALLY don’t dance that way? That introverted deep swelling thoughts are one thing and extroverted hip swinging and twerking is another? Well, it is not as if he put a mermaid on the Sahara desert, so if you can’t buy it, you’d naturally be asked why you aren’t able to, no?
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P
November 4, 2016
@MANK: Yes, I was kidding with you 🙂 Though it hurt just a lil bit that you implied that I could’nt be friends with Anu. But then I validated it by thinking you don’t really know me, except as some sort of dervish from these pages, so its ok 🙂
You should continue! Your arguments are the best part of BR’s comment section! Please don’t go!! ❤
Rahul: If that’s the case, its absolutely explainable! Yes, I agree with you. I personally know a Pakistani poetess and singer/songwriter who is from the upper echleons of Lahore society now married to a high profile stock broker and political activist of Pakistani origin in Singapore. She looks as lovely as Aishu and she talks like she’s bee drinking books by Gulzar.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1122148
PS: Yes, she dances in clubs too. So 😉
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rothrocks
November 4, 2016
@ Rahini I could respond in detail to your comment but before that do tell me whether you have seen the film. Because it’s not a worthwhile discussion otherwise.
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Anu Warrier
November 4, 2016
Wow! I least expected to unleash such a storm.
An Jo – my comment about your hyperventilating was made in jest because you seemed so, well, angry about a film. Tone does not translate well in these posts, and I’m sorry you felt I was being condescending. That was not at all my intention, and I’m sorry.
But. Don’t you see that there is more anger coming through your posts that someone actually dared to like the film that you hated so much than the alleged derision in mine? My post was a half amused and half bemused response to that anger that practically leapt off the page.
In fact, you were condescending and derisive towards those of us who liked the film than we were, or at least I was, in explaining what seemed so obvious to us. Your slams about ‘waiting for the mature Aditya Chopra or ‘broad-minded liberals’.
(As an aside, almost all the times I have been called a liberal or a feminist, the connotation has been pejorative.)
I ended all my posts saying, it’s fine you (general ‘you’) didn’ like the film; movie watching is subjective and it is very clear that people seem to have seen two different films. we did, and that’s all there is to it.
Madan, Rahini explained my response to your comment about you and Heavy Metal better than I could have. (Rahini, thank you!) I will add: we all have mental perceptions about people and things. Our biases, if you will. But when faced with reality, we make an effort to change. Take your case for example: your college mate didn’t think of you as someone who listened to Heavy Metal. Now she knows you do. If she continued, on every occasion, to point out that you couldn’t listen to Heavy Metal, it would get old, would it not? Would you call that a mindset then that cannot see beyond your reality?
If you met a woman like Saba in real life, in a disco, yes, you would be pardoned for not thinking her a shaayara, but if she tells you she is, and shows you her book of poems, will you continue to think that she cannot be a poet because you cannot wrap your head around the idea of an Urdu poet looking like her? (And this is ‘women’s issue’ only because women have a helluva time taken seriously. Other than that, I don’t see that I brought in ‘women’s issues’ in this thread.)
MANK: My comment to you was not ‘derisive’ at all. It was mostly a rhetorical post that spun off your comment and posed my frustration that in 2016, we are still suffering cognitive dissonance over what a woman looks like and what she is. Once again, tone does not translate well, and it the post came across as derisive, I apologise. That was not the intention.
it makes me both angry and sad at the same time that i cant get it across what i see so clearly.
Let me flip that: does it make sense to you that it makes us feel well, not hurt and angry, but certainly frustrated that we cannot seem to get across what we see so clearly as well?
We are NOT telling you to like ADHM. We have not mocked you for not liking the film. What we have attempted to do is address the stereotypes that have come up in the comments. On the contrary, we have been mocked for liking it. People are shocked, shocked! I tell you! that we cannot see what is, or should be, as obvious as the elephant in the room.
we are speaking about the metaphor, the symbol, the dishonest concept employed by the filmmaker in a given scenario in his narrative , while they are taking it completely literally and grandstanding on that.
Who is being derisive about whom here? ‘Grandstanding’? Because we are not seeing the ‘metaphor, the symbol’ and ‘the dishonest concept’? Wow! I think I will set up my irony board here. Actually, no, I think I will bow out completely.
Because the anger directed at people who liked the film to the extent that An Jo feels the need to mock those of us that do for being ‘broadminded liberals’ who understand Johar’s maturity (and presumes that therefore, we will accept Aditya Chopra’s ‘maturity’ because obviously, we are sheep and cannot judge each movie on its own merits), and your comments a) that we are talking about different things and b) that we cannot see ‘clearly’ what you, Madan and An Jo can – well, what can I say?
I will not presume to speak for BR, but now that I have apologised to people for being condescending and derisive (those apologies were sincerely meant, by the way), this broadminded liberal feminist who cannot see the dishonesty inherent in ADHM will now go and ruminate over her sins. {In the context of this thread, I don’t know which ‘sin’ is worse – being liberal, feminist or daring to like ADHM. 🙂 ]
p.s. No broadminded liberals, feminists, or ADHM haters/likers were harmed in the writing of this post.
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naveenkrwpress
November 4, 2016
this thread inspired me to watch the movie, as i usually keep away from KJo, YRF films. as BR aptly put it is overall satisfying. more of filling/overdose than fulfilling. part of the film was really like watching Imtiaz’s movies.
all said and done, Ansuhka rocks in this. Ranbir proves why he is the best actor in the young generation. somehow could not find Aish’s crying very convincing. it was testing her range. why did they have to make her eyes red in that final scene.
a movie worth all this discussion. good to see P, Anu,Rahini, Mank etc in full form.
Amit Joki, are you still trying to understand this movie?
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Rahul
November 4, 2016
P, I recently saw an interview of Karan in which he says he was ashamed to acknowledge his Bollywood origins in the snooty South Bombay school he attended I doubt if he would have had that problem in Pakistan. Pakistani elite embrace Bollywood , and Urdu. Punjabi is the poor vernacular cousin that is looked down upon, like Indians do to Hindi, Marathi etc.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
November 4, 2016
Friends
Sorry to bug you.
Please check out my cartoon on the US Elections 2016 and if you like it, please cast your ‘Like’ on the FaceBook link provided by the US Consulate which is conducting the cartoon contest.
Cartoon Title : ‘Gropes of Wrath’ – pen name Zola
BR : Many Thanks for this platform !
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rothrocks
November 4, 2016
@ Anu We’re talking about the film here and Ayan’s reaction to Saba, not mine. I would not bat an eyelid even if I was indeed surprised. But Ayan is supposed to be this pampered brat, this overgrown man child. Where from does he find the enlightenment to experience this without any betrayal of culture shock? Literally the only sensible thing in the entire Saba interlude is Alizeh informing Saba, to her surprise, that Ayan is a pampered brat (forgot the exact words). It acknowledges in a way that Ayan’s response to Saba is inexplicable and not backed up by events in the film.
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sanjana
November 4, 2016
Certain things here are not as simple as they look. There are too many things unsaid which can be understood. It is not black and white but lots of grey. And so the arguments and counter arguments go on like wandering in a circle and going nowhere. Same opinions are repeated again and again. But the journey is on with no destination in sight which will satisfy everyone. Let us savour the journey until we feel asleep midway. Life maybe short but arguments can be very long.
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Sifter
November 4, 2016
@ Rahini- Village Belle and smoking habit
I have seen village belle’s smoking Suruttu and chewing raw tobacco…just opposite to my house and in Tent Kottai’s 🙂 I have also seen village belle’s smoking Long Beedi’s at the foot path in Daula Kuan (in Delhi) and other places…with their saree pallu’s covering part of their faces 🙂 🙂 So why would anyone think Village Belle’s don’t smoke??
I saw the movie and liked it in parts. Liked Saba more than anyone. With Alizeh it was a like-hate, with Ayan it was frankly exasperation for me. Yes, the women in this movie were stronger, but should the young man be a man-child all the time? He was like a child who refuses to grow the heck up and it is irritating to watch. Lag Jaa Gale se & Aaj Jaane Ki was irredeemably butchered for me. These are the kind of songs that should be left the heck alone.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
November 4, 2016
Rahini: But people who felt that they could not BUY the whole thing should spare a thought to WHY they could not buy the whole thing rather than just assume that Karan Johar screwed the thing up. Maybe it is YOUR mind that is screwing you up.
I have watched only one film of his – KKHH – to date. Nevertheless, I can confidently side with MANK & co. I saw the film when I was about 9-10; I was flabbergasted to see a college which had girls who wore shorts/miniskirts for classes all the time (things may have changed a lot though). Heck, that was the case even with some lecturers. It really gave me an impression that the north belonged to an alien land. It’s not that movies should be totally devoid of ‘artificiality’ – in terms of characterization/narrative – but when it goes beyond a certain level the movie becomes practically unwatchable for some people.
Simply put, this is the problem:
An Jo said, Karan’s idea of poverty, as I alluded to somewhere, is a kid working extra hours and sweating to pay for his Ducati while his idea of wealthy is the same kid graduating to driving a Lamborghini after completing his MBA as SOTY.
I find this far more amusing than, say, ‘Madhubala stumbling upon Tamil-speaking Janakaraj in Kashmir’, or ‘Caucasian kissing in a Chennai CCD’. 🙂
Note: I’m not disagreeing with you.
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Anu Warrier
November 4, 2016
Madan, precisely because he’s a man-child. His reaction in that scene is essentially, ‘Really? Wow!’ and a lot of it came from Ranbir’s expression as well. But then, he goes back to being his self-absorbed self.
Thus, that throwaway scene in her apartment in Vienna where he says, ‘Hey, I liked these poems; they’re really good!’ There’s that surprise in his voice. And she responds, ‘Really? Not very many people in the literary world take me seriously.’
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brangan
November 4, 2016
Madan: Ayan is supposed to be this pampered brat, this overgrown man child. Where from does he find the enlightenment to experience this without any betrayal of culture shock?
Are you talking about Ayan’s experience of Saba’s poetry, etc? If so, why should there be any culture shock? It’s not like he threw himself into her world. It’s not like Ayan changes overnight into a shayari-spouting rock star.
He meets her. She’s bloody hot. She finds him attractive too. Maybe she feels sorry for him too, after he tells her his story. All this brings them together – at least for the duration of a flight.
She guesses, too, that he’s probably not going to be into her poetry. Hence her words: “Agar alfaaz kaam na aaye to number istemaal kar lena.” If you’re not healed by these words, then try me. It’s a brief (and entirely plausible) encounter.
Then there’s a THREE-month break — which is great, I thought. Had he jumped at her offer right off, it would have been odd, considering he’s just had his heart broken. But after a bit of time, after a bit of reading her book, he decides to give it a shot.
And even after they get together, he’s still amused that people talk this way — which is why he asks SRK and Ash “Do you guys learn these lines beforehand?”
And even then, he’s not really into Saba. When we hear the words of the title song, we think “Tu safar mera, tu hi meri manzil…” etc. may refer to Saba. But at the end of the song, that quick cut to Alizeh tells us that his heart is still with Alizeh.
So there is no “enlightenment” at all. He’s still doing bratty things like taking pictures of Saba just to make Alizeh jealous.
He may be a bit better with words now that he’s been with Saba. He may have progressed from Westernised songs (Breakup song) to Punjabi-laced songs (Chana mereya) to — now — Urdu-tinged songs. But he’s still more or less the same Ayan.
His real change — or “enlightenment” as you call it — happens only after the final portions.
Even when with Alizeh, he’s still “Mujhe woh DJ wala pyar de do.” Only after she kicks him out does he realise — with a finality — that it’s NEVER going to happen. And that’s when the “enlightenment” happens, the grown-up demeanour with which we see him with during the film’s framing device (after Alizeh dies off screen).
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Anu Warrier
November 4, 2016
Thanks BR. You explained it better than I could.
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Aran
November 5, 2016
Sifter: “…should the young man be a man-child all the time? He was like a child who refuses to grow the heck up and it is irritating to watch.”
I wonder how much the actor cast in the role influences the character choices these writer-directors make. It’s no secret that these roles, right from Rockstar to Tamasha to ADHM now have been written with Ranbir Kapoor in mind. How much of his character in Wake Up Sid typecasts him? Before Rockstar and Tamasha, Imtiaz Ali’s male characters didn’t seem to be this immature. Socha Na Tha and Jab We Met had more mature male leads, and with Love Aaj Kal, at least one track (the kal part) had a mature male in the love story. With Karan Johar, I think this is a departure from his normal male leads; even though Shahrukh could be called selfish in KANK, he is not immature.
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P
November 5, 2016
Karan released a new deleted scene/song. Its so delightful! Its beyond me how people cannot be melted even a little bit by so much genuine goodness!! 🙂
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rothrocks
November 5, 2016
Anu/BR: I don’t agree with that explanation because imo a man child would lack a social filter and say something he shouldn’t as he is unaware of such unstated norms. This is why Saba reacts with surprise when Alizeh tells her that he is a pramless baby or whatever; because that is not how she sees him. And she does not see him that way because he is uncharacteristically restrained in his interactions with her.
Regardless we have at least arrived at the heart of our disagreements which is simply that I have a different understanding of the idea of a man child. And since the entire film is narrated through the perspective of Ayan, this is bound to affect how we react to his interactions with Alizeh and Saba.
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Rahul
November 5, 2016
sravishanker140 , great work mate. Keep it up.
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rothrocks
November 5, 2016
@ Rahul In SoBo the Anglicisation is so strong that there are actually people who struggle to speak Hindi and butcher common Indian names. It’s like another planet in Mumbai that is oblivious to the rest of the city/country. Which is why I still think the liza Haydon character was KJ’s way of getting back at the SoBo snobs. And had he shed the Urdu fetish perhaps he could have simply set the film in South Mumbai.But Mumbai ka vatavaran is not so exotic, no? 😛
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P
November 5, 2016
@rothrocks: Don’t be so mean ya….As an anglicized south Indian, Bombay was a huge culture shock for me too. Like in Bangalore, if I call customer service (of a Bank or telecom or anything) and I choose English the person actually speaks in English, here everything is peppered with Hindi and they get insulted/offended if you ask to revert back to English. It was really difficult for the the first year at least 😦 I identify deeply with my SoBo friends….Bombay feels kinda rudderless for those to whom English is the mother tongue. Bangalore actually is better in this aspect, I could speak to say a blue collar worker like an autodriver in English and he would be fine. I think because there are multiple languages- Kannada, Coorgi, Tulu, Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam, Hindi- people ultimately use English to communicate and are ok with it unlike Bombay where its seen as almost a patriotic insult 😦
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
November 5, 2016
Rahul : Many Thanks ! Much appreciated
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Anu
November 5, 2016
Just to jump in to the party, an usually silent observer of this blog!
As someone who prizes myself as self confessed Bollywood (especially the masala lover) I have a lot of tolerance for Kjos other movies (barring stoy) and I love love love imitate! But I found this movie unbearable for most parts! I could not tolerate this merge of kjos nonsensical über pretentious world mixing with the beautiful real world weaved into the magical romantic world that imtiaz creates in ways that to me only he seems capable of creating. I think it’s that mix that I hated! The movie was neither here nor there! The last half was unbearable!
But the only thing that rung true to me is ayan’s child like obsession to get alizeh’s dj Ali waala pyar and Alizeh’s mature response to it. I don’t think alizeh was being selfish at all. And her initial attraction is not exactly attraction. You meet someone at a club where you are looking for chance encounters you try to explore which is what she did. She realizes ten minutes into to that this is going to be special but there’s probably going to be nothing physical about it. I think from her side that idea went out of her mind when she starts giggling and puts on her jacket to leave snf probably never reentered her mind. She was never selfish – she doesn’t come back to Ayan after walking out on Ali because he asks her to help him not weaken his resolve. She is dying and even towards the end she wants to be honest to him about her feelings for him. She forms this bond with him that’s deeper in many ways than any other on the first night. There is nothing physical about it but there is an extreme familiarity that she starts taking liberties like throwing a glass of wine on his girlfriend, dragging him along everywhere etc., she has always been clear about her feelings though she may have underestimated the intensity of his. She feels bad but she is also one to believe that he would get over it eventually and that’s his journey.’ She has always been like that – an honest, loyal, mature and independent person. And she expects Ayan to be like that. It might make her come across as cold But I don’t see anything selfish or contradictory about how her feelings for ayan were handled!
Ayan on the other hand falls in love. I do think he understands and also values the relationship at the same level as Alizeh does. But he is also more possessive. He wants everything from her. It’s not that he doesn’t want what she is offering. He knows he has it and he takes that for granted. He is like a kid he wants he has but he also wants what he doesn’t have – which is the Ali waala pyar. If he gets It once his ego will be satisfied that’s all. It’s not so much that he wants her sexually in that a part of it to do with his ego being appeased and part of it to possess the girl he loves in every way possible. He wants to be the man Alizeh loves in every way possible and not have a part of her love missing and given to someone else!
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Madan
November 5, 2016
@ Honest Raj I grew up in far flung Kalyan during the time of KKHH so I have no idea about what was ‘done’ in SoBo at the time. I have moved long since to Vashi which is also a suburb and I can say for sure that it is not at all unusual to see women in shorts/ short skirts here. Not just in the malls but even in the old shopping hub. I don’t know what happens in colleges in SoBo these days since I am long out of college. There is a C-grade college (as in, meant for pass class students) close to where I live and I don’t see any of the female students wearing short dresses to THAT college but SoBo is more posh so maybe it is allowed there. One thing I can say for sure is Mumbai has always had an anything goes culture so – and I am not saying you said so – the kind of “if she is dressed in revealing clothes, she must be slutty/encouraging you” thinking that is sometimes expressed by men is strictly no no here. Even if there are conservative types here who believe that deep down, they wouldn’t dare say that to women face to face. Now with the advent of ____ the anything goes culture is a little under siege when it comes to food and I am hearing of beef butchers shutting shop but SO FAR it hasn’t extended to what women wear.
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Madan
November 5, 2016
@ P: Now that is a surprise to me because I have definitely met a lot of people in Mumbai who can hold entire conversations in English without throwing in Hindi and I would count myself as one of them. Certainly if I knew the other person is not a born-bred Mumbaiite and cannot speak or is not comfortable in Hindi, I would not use Hindi words. Maybe Modi sarkar influence is messing up this city more than I am aware of and then Mumbai is a huge city so you can meet all sorts of people, including idiots. As far as born-bred SoBoites, well, the meanness is mutual. I did find some of them to be insufferable snobs so I am not going to hold back when it comes to those who grow in Mumbai without ever learning to speak Hindi and wearing this inability as a badge of honour. Even the English some of them speak is execrable (which only makes their snobbery more amusing). If they weren’t so palpably in love with what they believe to be their coolness, I might be more forgiving of their inability to speak Hindi. That is ONE thing in which I completely relate to and empathise with KJ; must have been really hard growing up as a fan of RK films in the midst of SoBo types.
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P
November 5, 2016
Bombay is more influenced by the monolingual devanagari-based culture. Marathi and Hindi after all have the same script. So maybe there is a reverse snobbery among people here. Even my south indian cousins(who grew up here) speak in Hindi mostly and use English peppered in between that.
In Bangalore for a lot of people English is a bridge language. Like if you are from Cantonment Bangalore then English is your bridge language with madisaar Bangalore YKWIM? Hindi is as alien to us as say, I don’t know Malayalam…
I moved to Bombay way before Modi so I wouldn’t like to lay the blame on him. The fact that there is a homegrown regionalistic party like the MNS which is the child of another regionalistic party the Shiv Sena which had such a huge influence on Bombay to the extent that they had a saying that went something like “pungi bajao lungi bhagao” way back in the 80s (from what my grand dad told me!) because they hated white collar English speaking south indian “job stealers” says a lot about Bombay way before Modi was ever a phenomenon
The other problem is that Andheri where I live is full of actors/models who have moved here from Delhi/other places in the north- that might be a big factor.
I still love this city, its given me a lot, but yeah, the language snobbery is disappointing. I feel most at home in places like old Bandra and Town.
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Anu Warrier
November 5, 2016
@Madan, @P, I agree with both of you. Because things are a-changing in good old Bombay/Mumbai.
Colleges like Xavier’s, Mithibai (in the suburbs, if you please), Sophia’s, NM, Jaihind, Wilson’s, etc., have had girls in short skirts/jeans/height of fashion for the longest of time. And when the prinicipal of Xavier’s decided to have a dress code for girls, there was the strongest of protests. A friend of ours, who’s a professor in Mithibai, recounts his shock at being accosted by a young thing in miniskirts and fishnet stockings in his Physics classroom. And I agree completely with Madan that this was the one place where ‘slut shaming’ didn’t work. But the MNS and the Sena and the keepers of our morality are slowly chipping away, with bans on Valentine’s Day (I hate it myself, but ban? Really? You have nothing better to do than ban the sale of flowers and cards?) and their talk of ‘Bharatiya sanskar’ and ‘patriotism’.
[Johar’s KKHH was not set in Bombay or even in India; it was an alternate Riverdale of his imagination, and his ode to the Archie-Betty-Veronica romance. Call him what you will, he is honest in acknowledging his influences, and brutally honest about the flaws in his films, and about the sort of films he can make. ]
Plus, the ‘Marathi Manoos’ platform has led to the increasing use of [only] Marathi in government offices, which is a pain. Because Bombay is not really a ‘Maharashtrian’ city – it belongs to everyone from everywhere.
P, Bombay has Marathi, Gujarati, Konkani, Hindi, English, Tamil and Malayalam (and a few other assorted tongues) as native languages. It truly was a microcosm of India before the aforementioned Marathisation began.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
November 5, 2016
Madan: I can say for sure that it is not at all unusual to see women in shorts/ short skirts here.
But what about the teachers?
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Anu Warrier
November 5, 2016
@Honest Raj – oh for heavens’ sake – which college resembles the college in KKHH? Principal, teacher, students – it was an alternate universe. Johar certainly wasn’t looking to showcase reality. If you can accept Baahubali and someone picking up a 100-tonne Shivling then you should be able to accept a director’s imagination. Nothing there was realistic, and he didn’t intend it to be. 🙂
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Madan
November 5, 2016
“Even my south indian cousins(who grew up here) speak in Hindi mostly and use English peppered in between that.” – And so can I. I can hold an entire conversation in Tamil, English or Hindi or some mixture of both; it depends on what the other person’s wavelength is. All Marathi would be difficult and I would have to mix Hindi but I can understand it pretty well. This is because if you grow up in Mumbai and wish to associate with people from all strata of society, you’d better speak Hindi. It is unreasonable to expect lower class people, for instance, to speak English (maybe they do in Bangalore, I wouldn’t know) so Hindi is the common denominator that unites all folks from all parts of the country (who migrate to the city, if not anymore in the numbers they used to). If you know Hindi, you can chat up your taxi driver, security guard, laundry guy etc. If you know Marathi, it is useful in govt offices and BEST buses. You almost don’t need English except when you are working for large corporates where the business language is usually English. It is not a reverse snobbery, it is just utility. But of course if somebody insists on mixing Hindi in their English conversations with you even after you tell them you are not comfortable in Hindi, that is just dumb and is not the Mumbai I know. The Mumbai I know would help a newcomer feel at home…to the extent possible. I mean, we can’t stop dashing for our trains because it intimidates newcomers but the thought that somebody would not adjust maadi their vocab a little is anathema to me. It may also be a localised Andheri thing as you say. Chembur has a larger South Indian population and the use of English in conversation is higher there.
@ Anu: I was born in Bombay, if you know what I mean, and am used to hearing the automated announcements at suburban railway stations chirp the words Victoria Terminus. I think the impact of SS/MNS or even Babri on the city’s mindset is overestimated because even in the 90s it was still the welcoming cosmopolitan city that it is or was known to be. When I read in a newspaper article of somebody from Delhi who had never had Muslim neighbours, I was shocked because I was used to having Muslim and Christian friends, classmates even, since childhood. Yes, the ugly thuggery of the self styled rakshaks of Marathi Asmita would rear its head every once in a while and I don’t deny the damage it must have caused to those who unfortunately fell prey to their antics but the people at large didn’t pay any attention to it.
On the other hand, the impact of 26/11 is grossly underestimated. It has fuelled the rise of the right wing in the city and sowed the seeds of distrust between Hindus and Muslims. Today the situation is I and a Muslim colleague may be good friends but we are unlikely to live in the same society because societies with majority Hindu population will not let landlords rent out their flat to Muslim tenants and Hindus would not live in a Muslim dominated society. This segregation as well as the rise of a vocal Jain faction, who wield much greater clout than their absolute numbers and are extremely obstinate in imposing their hardline vegeterianism on everyone and not just fellow Jains, is likely to change the character of the city…for the worse, I am afraid. And that will be truly sad but the city has also gradually lost the camaraderie that, again, was still intact in the 90s and has become pretty self centred and materialistic. So I don’t know that anybody cares. Well, maybe they will when the freedoms they took for granted are taken away from them but won’t that be too late?
@ Honest Raj: I have never seen teachers/lecturers dressed in short skirts but in the colleges Anu mentioned, like Xaviers or Mithibai, it would not at all be unusual if they did. FWIW short skirts, ok knee length, are acceptable in offices of large corporates in Mumbai.
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brangan
November 5, 2016
Honest Raj: So a scrawny Dhanush single-handedly fighting off 25 burly goons makes you suspend disbelief, but a miniskirt in a college doesn’t? 🙂
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Anu Warrier
November 5, 2016
Madan, I agree with almost everything you say about Bombay. That is the Bombay I know and love too, and I share your fear that that is changing with the segregation that is raising its head. Bombay is the one place I felt completely at home, even if I wasn’t born there (my husband was), and I agree that it was one of the most welcoming of places. It’s a place that doesn’t really care where you’re from, or who you are, or what you are… it just lets you be. The Sena and their offshoots and yes, the Jain brigade and the only-Muslim lot are all making it very difficult for Bombay to maintain its cultural plurality. 😦
P, I don’t know which Bangalore you’re talking about, but I did my schooling there, and have a major part of family living there still, and if the Kannadiga-Tamil clash was always quite strong. And if you spoke to auto drivers in English and got by, I’m frankly amazed. I speak Kannada fluently [well, used to; now I’m rusty, but I can still read, write and understand, and even get by with speaking] but if they knew you weren’t from Karnataka, they often took you on a ride. Things have changed in Bangalore only because of the influx of infotech/software companies. The customer service you are talking about are all call centres, where they are taught to speak in English because they also have to deal with international customers calling to complain.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
November 5, 2016
Anu: But Baahubali is a high fantasy film with some OTT characters, no?
Madan: Well, in that case colleges in the north really belong to a different universe.
BR: Dhanush
wasis called the Indian Bruce Lee. CTRL+F = Amit Joki 🙂LikeLike
Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
November 5, 2016
Bangalore (should I say Bengaluru?) is becoming another Bombay. 😦
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MANK
November 6, 2016
*My comment to you was not ‘derisive’ at all. It was mostly a rhetorical post that spun off your comment and posed my frustration *
Anu, i am sorry for misunderstanding that one. i just couldnt figure out where your response stopped and your rhetoric began. I thought the whole diatribe was directed at me. i was a lil hurt that someone with whom i have always had a healthy correspondence wouldn’t give me the benefit of doubt on this one. now i know it was not.
Let me flip that: does it make sense to you that it makes us feel well, not hurt and angry, but certainly frustrated that we cannot seem to get across what we see so clearly as well?
that’s the point, you got it across fine. i fully understood what you were trying to say there. my frustration was with myself , my own inability , not your inability in understanding it.
We are NOT telling you to like ADHM. We have not mocked you for not liking the film. What we have attempted to do is address the stereotypes that have come up in the comments. On the contrary, we have been mocked for liking it. People are shocked, shocked! I tell you! that we cannot see what is, or should be, as obvious as the elephant in the room.
Neither have i, i have made it clear how much i liked the film and how much i dont and why and fully understand why somebody would wholeheartedly like it.
Who is being derisive about whom here? ‘Grandstanding’? Because we are not seeing the ‘metaphor, the symbol’ and ‘the dishonest concept’? Wow! I think I will set up my irony board here. Actually, no, I think I will bow out completely.
I used Grandstanding purely from my perspective, because the subject about which you got so riled up about – and rightfully so – was something i agree with too, it was a non issue for me that should be commented about. from your perspective you were being sincere about it. i am sorry if that terminology hurt you
*Because the anger directed at people who liked the film to the extent that An Jo feels the need to mock those of us that do for being ‘broadminded liberals’ *
well An Jo got really carried away in his post . he seems to be really emotional about it and taken it personally. i dont take anything about a film personally
this broadminded liberal feminist who cannot see the dishonesty inherent in ADHM will now go and ruminate over her sins. {In the context of this thread, I don’t know which ‘sin’ is worse – being liberal, feminist or daring to like ADHM.🙂 ]*
Your seeing or not seeing the dishonesty in the film was never MY problem, your misunderstanding the issue posed by me was my only problem. film viewing is a subjective experience. we watch it and enjoy it based on our personal viewpoint. i have no problem whether you dont see the dishonesty, understand the dishonesty or see it as a dishonesty at all.that for me was never the issue.
Just to conclude , i would say the if someone was to make a full fledged film about saba – the sophisticated modern women in her 40’s who after her divorce finds her calling in poetry and who finds herself invigorated in a relationship with a younger man- whom she has met or picked up at a club\bar , if that character is played by an actress who can portray her in all her shades , someone like Madhuri or Tabu and written and directed by a filmmaker who know that character, respect that character ,in a film deserving of that character ,then i would definitely love that and i would definitely watch that film. but i cannot appreciate that character being used by a pretentious filmmaker who uses that character to window dress his film to class it up or sex it up in a film where the character and her story looks out of place
that’s all i am saying and thats all i want to say on that for now. i dont know whether i could get it through or not, if i havent, its completely my fault and my inability to get it across. cheers.
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Madan
November 6, 2016
@ Anu: Yup, the first time I visited Bangalore as a grown up, it was very difficult to get by without Kannada. The autowalas understood what we (had gone as a group) were saying in Hindi but would only reply in Kannada, that is if they saw fit to reply. They didn’t understand we were just tourists and not immigrants come to take their jobs for the love of God. The next time I only travelled up down by Meru and got a driver who spoke Tamil so had no problems. But especially during the Dharam Singh-Kumaraswamy years, native resentment of ‘outsiders’ was very strong.
@ Honest Raj: This isn’t about North-South. Some places in the North have a more permissive attitude and some are more conservative. Mumbai and Kolkata in particular have a strong liberal and cosmopolitan character which it has to be said is largely a legacy of the British Raj. But post independence too the citizens have attempted to keep this character intact since they understand that without it they may not have made it in the city and would not be able to call it home.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
November 6, 2016
Madan : Great insights on Bombay. Thanks !
Have never lived or worked there except for short work related or relative related ( sic) visits but can relate to what you mentioned.
I almost got hitched there since my first ponnu paarthufying was in Goregaon buy I was maha put off since they behaved like Madras belonged on another planet (like many tamilians in Bombay )
I find irrespective of language affiliation Bombayites whether Parsi or Tamilian have a particular lilt in their voices which defies description. Maybe a sound byte would help 🙂
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Madan
November 6, 2016
@ sriravishanker: Yup, a kind of flat, deadpan tone with little punctuation, if that’s what you mean. A liltless lilt, if you will. And yes, usually Tamilians who grow up in Mumbai have very little exposure to Tamil culture and haven’t often visited Chennai or anywhere else in TN, if at all. If they do know any Tamil music, it’s usually Rahman (speaking of my generation or the one just few years older). I am an outlier that way because everyone speaks Tamil in my family and we are all Ilayaraja odai bhaktargal. Which doesn’t mean criticising him for giving songs to Bhava is out of bounds, far from it.
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P
November 6, 2016
Anu, Madan et al: I grew up in Mysore, and moved the Bangalore post the IT boom, I think. In 2004 when I moved i got by exclusively on English cause my Kannada is the sucks! 😀 I know my grand aunt who moved from Coimbatore to Bangalore got by exclusively on English and Tamil- and till date she doesn’t know a word of Kannada. And that’s A-OK! I have north Indian friends who come to Bangalore and then crib that we don’t speak the “national language” (whereupon I direct them to the nearest wiki page on the Indhi riots and how its not a national language!!). Plus I live in Cantonment Bangalore so maybe my perspective is different. I visit madisaar Bangalore rarely only to get the great breakfasts at GTR and MTR!
But in Bangalore like I said English is the bridge language while in Bombay as Madan says Hindi is the bridge language. So for someone like me its difficult to get by. I think primarily in English (our native language is long forgotten!) so I have to translate the words after I think them and I end up looking like an idiot!
Anu you also said
“The customer service you are talking about are all call centres, where they are taught to speak in English because they also have to deal with international customers calling to complain.”
You do know that International call centers are different from Indian call centers? Indian call centers are mostly third party ones while international ones are mostly captive and yes, they are based out of Bangalore but the employees which serve those customers are different from the ones that serve us. If I call say Airtel Bangalore and click 3 to speak in English, I get an English speaker on the line. If I click 3 to speak in English in Bombay I get a person who peppers his English with Hindi and who when I ask “can we switch to English please”, gets “audibly” annoyed and tries to be as difficult as possible for the rest of the call. This has happened not just with Airtel but Tata Sky, HDFC, ICICI, Reliance Energy you name it! Thankfully Citibank still connects me to Bangalore and I peacefully can speak in English without being made to feel like I am a traitor and Modi is going to send me to Pakistan! 😀 😛
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MANK
November 6, 2016
Punee,I am sorry if that hurt you a lil. i have a habit of getting carried away with my perceived sense of humour which others don’t find funny at all. I hope you kiss and make up with Anu and live happily ever after as janam janam ke saathi
And regarding yours truly being the best thing on Brangan’s comment section, well aapke moonh mein ghee shakkar – hope you are not diabetic – , but I think the best thing on Brangan’s comment section is Brangan himself. Honestly , how many critics do you know who would get involved with their readers and take their heat and cold
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MANK
November 6, 2016
Aran, I think Ranbir should stay away from these man child roles. He is in terrible danger of being pigeonholed and typecast in these characters like SRK was by the Johar-yashraj films. Its no consolation that finally he has scored a hit with this film and this film is going to be the future indicator by which he is going to be cast . he is good in something like Rocket singh, he is too good an actor to be limited to this kind of characters. Its true there is a limit to his range as shown by Bombay Velvet. It was a very idiotic thing that Kashyap did by replacing Ranveer with Ranbir. He would have aced that role. But seeing how that film turned up, I guess it wouldn’t have made a difference
Rahul, Yes I get what Altman is saying there. I am sure KJo has to make a lot of cuts to get his film released. I believe that in the original film, all characters except Ayan are Pakistanis. That would have been a very different film from what we have here. Of course one can only speculate. You can only evaluate a film based on the final product that was released no ?
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hari ohm
November 6, 2016
MANK – “my frustration was with myself , my own inability , not your inability in understanding it.” inspired by George Costanza? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uAj4wBIU-8
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Madan
November 6, 2016
@ P Re call centres, the simple fact is English proficiency is higher in South India than the North. And so those who work in domestic call centres in Mumbai are really not all that fluent in English (the ones who are better at speaking English will head to places like eserve which serve American/UK clients) and though they may agree to speak English because you as the customer selected that option, they may end up dropping Hindi words. Where Bangalore is the IT capital, Mumbai is the financial capital so as long as you know your debit/credit, it doesn’t matter if you can’t speak English well, you’ll still get a decent job.
With that said, I regularly communicate with HDFC Securities on phone and always choose English and am always spoken to in English, with not one Hindi word. So it also depends on the organisation. I am quite startled by your experiences, to be honest, because I have never heard of treating English speakers as anti national in Mumbai and to imagine that it could happen in a fairly upmarket place like Andheri…Possibly your aspiring artist buddies get chippy when you speak English?
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
November 6, 2016
Madan : “a kind of flat, deadpan tone with little punctuation, A liltless lilt”
Awesome ! That kinda describes it.
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Anu Warrier
November 6, 2016
MANK, we’re cool. Pakshe, njaan enthu pezhuchu, maashe? Ingane shapikkano? 🙂
P, not negating your experience at all. I was just surprised. Have dealt with Tata Sky customer service when I visit my sister’s. And all I can say is that they probably employ the most brain-dead people ever. ‘Service’ is a sham. As to the rest, I concur with Madan’s explanation. To me, Bombay is the one place (from the many I have lived in) to which I’ve given my heart. 🙂 It took me in, made me feel welcome and at home, and if there’s one place in India I will call home, it is there.
As for Bangalore, I lived off the Cantonment area myself. Indiranagar, to be precise. As I guessed, the influx of the techies has really made a difference.
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Anurag
November 6, 2016
@brangan ‘I’m surprised so many people I talk to are dismissing this film as just another weepie, just another love triangle, just another disease-of-the-week film…You cannot just say “three people = love triangle”. “cancer = cliche”. It’s how these are employed in the film.’
Fantastic write up Brangan and I do get this point of yours. Now consider this – what do you say when there is a natural refusal from inside of a majority of us to view the ‘how these are employed in a film’ part ? I hope it does not mean that this is really the key difference between natural instinct of a film critic and aam audience?
Why I am asking this is that personally for me the ‘how…’ of any film for that matter becomes possible only on second viewing. But on the first viewing, the part which you Brangan are surprised about is all i can think about and cannot see the film beyond that. ADHM was a hugely disappointing film for me and may be now when i think of it, to quickly trace why i felt that way, i blamed the cancer=cliche as totally manipulative and a bigger reason than anything for the negative feel. I could be wrong because i did not give myself the time and patience to think on the ‘how’ aspect.
Bottom line i am asking you, are instances/ films/ examples like this a reflection that we the audience need to consciously/deliberately grow up in how we approach our natural first time instant reaction to a film? Or is it ok that this continues for ever that majority feels naturally how it is and critics continue to find how the how was better everytime.
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Rahul
November 6, 2016
MANK – “You can only evaluate a film based on the final product that was released no ?” Yep . no arguments with that. Re Alizeh I felt few things were problematic since its mentioned she is from Lucknow. Re Saba I do not remember her nationality being mentioned and hence I did not feel any dissonance with imagining her as a high society Pakistani Urdu poetess.
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brangan
November 6, 2016
Anurag: There is no formula for these things and no one is “right” or “wrong.” Usually, when I like a film and others don’t like it (or vice versa), I can see where they are coming from. That is, their “logical” explanation of their “emotional” gut feeling makes sense to me, even if I felt differently. This time, I don’t find these explanations convincing (it’s like the smallest of things seem to have become deal-breakers) — but then again, the people who don’t like the film could turn around and say they don’t find my review convincing.
About the cancer thing, I too groaned when she took her cap off and showed her alien-bubble head. And I feared the worst when he locks himself up in the bathroom and wept. But the minute they reached home and SHE ends up being the one who consoles HIM, i got interested again. And from then on, I loved what they did with this angle. With the rare exceptions of an Anand etc., cancer angles are rarely suffused with lightness. And even the heavy parts (like his insistence that he wants to have the relationship) were done very well IMO. But if it did not work for you, it did not. What can I say?
My job is only to express how the movie made ME feel, not to tell YOU how to feel.
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Rahul
November 6, 2016
BR – i was also thinking about Anand. Though its hard to see the terrific last scene without tearing up, the director has tried to alleviate the melancholy both in terms of style and content. The camera pans quickly from the shot of the teary friends to settle on the gramophone that is playing Anand’s monologue in a cheery voice.
Anand says that he does not want to die, just for the sake of his Babu Moshai because Amitabh seems inconsolable at that point- pointing towards something obvious but clouded by emotion that when someone passes away we grieve more about how we will be able to cope, and less about how the person himself feels about it. The scene ends with a commentary about how Anand doesn`t die which I think could have been done away with, but still a great scene.
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Rahul
November 6, 2016
Anurag –
“Bottom line i am asking you, are instances/ films/ examples like this a reflection that we the audience need to consciously/deliberately grow up in how we approach our natural first time instant reaction to a film?”
Great question. I have seen this objection before and there is nothing wrong with what you feel. But at the same time I think people have this distaste about taking cinema seriously which I find Luddite- as I can’t think of a better word. Art is an experience that lives in our memory and it is constantly modified and enhanced by our engagement before and after we consume it. Assuming you watch cricket, you can just amuse yourself by watching it, or if you study a bit more, you may see how a bowler is laying a trap for a batsman, how a captain is changing his bowlers , how a batsman improvises his batting style depending upon the format or the pitch etc. and your engagement will likely be enhanced by it.
Then again, there is nothing wrong with choosing not to do it , if you don’t feel like it. For example, I like listening to music, I listen to classical too, but I do not have a keen appreciation towards it, for example, I can not tell one raga from other.
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P
November 7, 2016
MANK: awww 🙂 you’re such a sweetheart! Yes, of course BR is the best, then chalo you are the second best part of the comment section!
Madan: I agree about South India being better not just at English but at the acceptance of the idea of English being used as a bridge language. If a Malyali, Tamilian, Coorgi, Kannadiga, Goan, Hyderabadi and Tuluva are in the same room they will have no issues with speaking in English to understand each other.
Yeah, I’ve faced a lot of brunt when I request at parties that I host if it would be ok if we used English as they bridge language. People mock also (angrez chale gaye etc etc). But yeah, I guess most of the struggling artists are from the North. Or some of them are Bombay natives but they also don’t mind the bridge language being Hindi…
Or maybe its just that I am used to English (even if not very good) being the bridge language such that any place above the Vindhyas is weird for me 🙂 A couple of times I have recieved the “National Language” lecture as well, which I unfortunately don’t take very well and I go on rants about CS Rajagopalachari and the Indhi riots and how we had a mini revolution so as to not be discriminated against et al 🙂
Anu: I totally get where you are coming from! I still love Bombay though and when I go to Bandra or Marine Drive or any really beautiful place or even seeing it from a plane when landing gives me a huge rush. It is a place I have fought tooth and claw to live in and have moved back three times to, so no regrets at all…just maybe some of the chauvinism has rubbed me the wrong way 🙂
PS: Could Indiranangar really be classified as Cantt.? Anything the other side of the Railway track(that passes from Cantt. to East station) isn’t really I think. Indiranagar didn’t exist (Even going by its name which is inspired by the second PM) in a pre-independence era 🙂 So far as my great grand-uncle has told me Indiranagar used to be a forest/wild area that they passed on the road to Madras and it didn’t become a suburb until the early 80s…
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Aran
November 7, 2016
MANK, Haven’t watched Bombay Velvet and now your comment makes me want to go watch it. Anyway, I don’t really like Ranbir Kapoor, neither as a star nor as an actor. I like him somewhat better when he’s trying to underplay a role, or round it out a bit – like in Yeh Jawaani Hai Deewani, where his character has moments of ‘thehrao’, at least in the second half. And agreed, his being pigeon-holed into doing the man-child roles isn’t helping him any, and worse, even having an effect on otherwise good directors’ characterization of roles in movies he’s being cast in, imo.
brangan: “Usually, when I like a film and others don’t like it (or vice versa), I can see where they are coming from. That is, their “logical” explanation of their “emotional” gut feeling makes sense to me, even if I felt differently. This time, I don’t find these explanations convincing (it’s like the smallest of things seem to have become deal-breakers) — but then again, the people who don’t like the film could turn around and say they don’t find my review convincing.”
I don’t think people are saying they dislike the film as much as saying that they dislike certain aspects of the film. At least that’s the overall feeling I got from reading the responses here.
Speaking for myself, I enjoyed the movie while I was watching it – the glam and the beauty of it was enough to keep me entertained. I got a little annoyed by the cancer conceit towards the end because it felt unnecessary and completely shoe-horned in. I know you said you liked the treatment of the cancer angle, but to me the whole bit felt tacked on … like Karan Johar had entered the end phase and didn’t really know what to do with it and so – cancer. And so, my enjoyment of it was affected by how I felt towards the device I suppose.
Overall though, I enjoyed the movie. But when employing a critique of various film-making aspects related to the story, characterization, etc. I find there are certain holes, which I find people are talking about here as well.
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P
November 7, 2016
Rahul: “…when someone passes away we grieve more about how we will be able to cope, and less about how the person himself feels about it.”
Jaw. Drop. That is going to keep me thinking for a while now.
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brangan
November 7, 2016
Rahul: Then again, there is nothing wrong with choosing not to do it , if you don’t feel like it.
Absolutely. I do a deep dive on films because (1) that is the way I am naturally wired, (2) I enjoy doing this and it comes instinctively to me, and (3) it is my job.
90 per cent of people are just casual watchers, and one cannot and should not expect the same level of engagement.
By the same token, I am a casual watcher of cricket, so my only question is: Is the match entertaining (or nail-biting, or whatever)?
Whereas a person who follows cricket the way I follow movies will be interested even in matches that aren’t “entertaining” on the surface, because they dive into the intricacies of field setting, who’s sent in to bowl to this particular batsman, how the field is behaving in the morning versus the evening, and so on and so forth.
This does not mean my “experience” of cricket is not valid. It’s just… different.
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rothrocks
November 7, 2016
@ P: Angrez chale gaye is just the most fantastic nonsense! I mean that’s a cheap outdated joke from Dhool. I can only hope that it is reflective of greater North influence among aspiring artists (because the established stars themselves speak English!) and not a larger change in the city’s culture. I mean I don’t object to people just not being good at speaking English because we’re not in America or UK but mocking people and giving them the rashtrabaasha speech is so not done. We did use to mock the SoBo types like that in my earlier org but we were all friends and in the early-mid twenties bracket so it was all in fun and not mean spirited or malicious.
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rothrocks
November 7, 2016
Re cancer I am not saying it is automatically bad if the filmmaker shows a character having cancer. But the lack of attention to detail makes it appear like a trope KJ latched on to to contrive an easier resolution than if Alizeh had remained healthy even as Ayan became an internet star. Even melodramas cannot operate by 1950s rules in my opinion. There is broadly much more awareness now about cancer especially middle class and up so a film catering to these audience segments in particular should handle a disease like that with more seriousness. Agar too much uljan hai then think of a different conclusion, simple.
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RJ
November 7, 2016
तो कहानी है साले हरामखोर रणबीर कपूर की…
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brangan
November 7, 2016
RJ: I’m sorry I cannot allow your comment, filled with swear words and racist slurs.
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MANK
November 7, 2016
About the cancer thing, I too groaned when she took her cap off and showed her alien-bubble head. And I feared the worst when he locks himself up in the bathroom and wept. But the minute they reached home and SHE ends up being the one who consoles HIM, i got interested again. And from then on, I loved what they did with this angle.
Brangan, i think right there you can find the dichotomy between how you took that final act of that film and perhaps me and a lot of others did. You are approaching it purely from a technical pov , which helps you to get back on track there , while many of us are perhaps approaching it form purely emotional pov. the moment we see that alien-bubble head followed by Ranbir locked up crying , we are taken in to a very different emotional plain than what existed in the movie before and its very difficult for us to recover and get back in to the film, even if the treatment once again becomes rather lighthearted . now there has been several instances where i am able to watch a film from the technical or the ‘screenplay’ pov, here i just couldnt ,
for one this was a radical shift from what the film was doing up to that point of time,
second , this is the last act and there is no more acts to follow this thats going to buffer this emotional shift
and thirdly , the reputation of the director that you carry forward from his past films for being a shameless emotional manipulator and that i am extremely suspicious of .Of course the common logic is that you watch a film for what it is and forget about what the director did before and so on, but you know this better than me that such level of objectivity is better said than done. even if you try consciously to avoid that, you do end up bringing these baggages while watching a director’s film.
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hari ohm
November 7, 2016
Anu I’m genuinely curious regarding this comment of yours “It took me in, made me feel welcome and at home” What do you mean by it? How does a city take somebody in? I have lived in multiple cities mainly because of work. And during the course of work I developed a liking for the city, made good friends (ofcourse they made it very friendly), explored the city and started to get involved. In all of this it is the individual who has to mostly make the changes to gel with the city. So curious to know in your case what did the citydo to take you in? Thanks.
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Sifter
November 7, 2016
@Aran- Haven’t watched any of the films you mentioned, so wouldn’t know. But you have a point there…even I could feel that he has done this type of roles before…and not so good at it if I may add! The scene where he throws a crying tantrum on the sidewalk ringed with falsity. I couldn’t believe in it one bit. The way Ayan reacts to Saba after she realises Ayan continues to pine for Alizeh. The way Ayan refuses to understand or accept that Alizeh just is not attracted to him. I just wanted to ‘smack’ some sense into him. I have a similar situation in my life and no matter how many times I explain to this person over the years, they refuse to believe it. It is just exasperating after a while. That is how I got with Ayan as well. Just Exasperated 🙂 🙂
Can see a new trend picking up…with their hero’s being the man-child and refusing to be any other way…at least in Hindi movies
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P
November 7, 2016
@rothrocks : The thing is even with friends who joke about it, after a time, if the jokes become regular, common, and “normal” one starts feeling that hey, maybe they are right and I am alien to this country. If there was a conversation in Hindi-only there would a condescending “haan haan, koi iske liye translate to karo bhai!”
Its kinda demeaning considering that I am an Indian and English is as much a native tongue to me as xyz “more Indian language” is to them.
I mean I don’t make fun of their bad English, do I? Yet they come to me to help them write their SOPs and resumes, even wedding invites!
These same people look down on Indian movies and watch only House of Cards btw.
Modi didn’t come out of nothing. Its these various shades of hatred/dislike for the “other” mingled with a inferiority complex that craves their approval that has fused together to become the force that made an Indian PM speak in Hindi in Madison Square Garden while Hugh Jackman looked on and he said “May the force be with you”.
PS: No longer speaking of only Bombay in the last paragraph. This extends to almost all of whatever is above the vindhyas.
PPS: For people like us whose ancestors had no spiritual or material benefit from the feudal system of ancient India the British(despite their other faults!) were a savior. Without them we would still be wearing brooms around our waist to sweep the filth of our shadows away, not allowed to drink from public taps, basically treated worse than minorities under a Trump Presidency, so its literally true that Angrez Chale Gaye hum reh gaye. But this is another explanation that I cannot give without being branded anti-India.
PPPS: Sorry for the long rant 🙂
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P
November 7, 2016
@Sifter: The easiest thing to do would be to cut Ayan out of her life no? But that is the one thing that Alizeh refuses to do. She keeps babying him.
Sigh. But this is the dynamic between a lot of young couples these days. How women can tolerate being a mummy to a grown up man is beyond me!!
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MANK
November 7, 2016
I like him somewhat better when he’s trying to underplay a role, or round it out a bit – like in Yeh Jawaani Hai Deewani, where his character has moments of ‘thehrao’,
Aran,Yes he plays scenes of stillness very well, as you could see in this film too, the scene where he is in the middle of Anushka and Fawad’s confrontation, he expresses , confusion and hurt very well in that scene . the same could be said of tamasha as well, especially in the latter portions, when he is utterly baffled by deepika’s rejection of his proposal -as he is trying to come to terms with the fact that Deepika does not like his true self – he played that very very well IMO. but he is not vey comfortable when he has to play it at a higher pitch. like in another scene in Tamasha , when he has to alternate between being angry and sad in front of Deepika, or as in this film , hitting himself with tulsi pot at Anushka’s marriage. it just doesn’t work. it looks too pre determined , too calculated and just not organic.
*The easiest thing to do would be to cut Ayan out of her life no? *
Punee, i think there are many instances in the film where Alizeh comes dangerously close to being the classic MPDG. the girl who doesnt seem to have much of an inner life or any life and exist purely to cheer up the life of this sad sack of a man child. It is a tribute to Anushka’s performance that it does not fall across that line
And as for ‘How women can tolerate being a mummy to a grown up man is beyond me’, i thought you were just that kind of women 🙂
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Aran
November 7, 2016
Sifter, the Hindi movie romantic hero’s being a man-child trend is already on. 🙂
P, I don’t think Alizeh keeps babying Ayan. Her equation with him is always about telling him the harsher truths, whether it’s his being an awful kisser or telling him to STFU when he’s bawling like a baby after his break-up with Lisa Hayden, or even to tell him that she wants him as a friend and not as a lover. Again and again she makes him see his faults, and boy, does he have some of those. She enjoys his company probably because she can be this carefree Bolly-nut girl with him, which she probably doesn’t get from anyone else in her life or friend’s circle (if she has anyone else she hangs out with, that is). Also, remember that she does leave him (as in leaves being with him all the time) when he finally expresses his love for her, which happens to be at her wedding. Before then it’s really all fun and games. And then she cuts him out of her life again, when he expresses his love for again in Vienna. She could have renewed her friendship with him after leaving Ali, but she doesn’t. So I think it’s Ayan’s sense of entitlement that’s the issue here, not Alizeh’s relationship with him.
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KayKay
November 7, 2016
Wow! 286 comments and rising.
As usual, have been relishing the comments section as much as the actual review, been enjoying the mini-Civil War between Team MANK//An Jo Vs Team P/The Warrior, especially since both sides unearth such fascinating subtext on the film with each rebuttal. But,like The Avengers, am sure you’ll all kiss, make up and head to the nearest Shawarma joint for a bite afterwards 🙂
Just saw this yesterday, and finally feel a little qualified to throw my 2 cents in:
I’m with Team Warrior on this one, as KJo, India’s foremost Fantasy Film Maker (how else to classify a director who depicts an Indian College in his 1st film as a veritable Riverdale filled with mini-skirt wearing Bettys and Veronicas with Jugheads skateboarding through it’s corridors?) wades into deeper and murkier relationship waters in his 6th directorial venture.
ADHM is best seen as a companion piece to KANK in many aspects.
KANK was about 2 supremely selfish assholes who leave a wake of emotional destruction in their single minded pursuit of one another, in spite of being married to other people.
ADHM is about one over-privileged, entitled, super-spoilt man-child and his elusive quest to get his Best Friend into loving him with the same all-encompassing passion she feels for another man and his immature ass simply can’t accept that the generous Alizeh sees in their friendship a purity, a Life Support System and Safe Haven from her tempestuous love life with and feelings for Ali.
Ayan, who prefers to let his Other Head do most of the thinking, most of the time, and pissed off at being friend-zoned by Alizeh, drifts into Lust with a matured Urdu Poetess (Aishwarya Rai Bachan, luminous) with a strictly no-strings attached policy with the express purpose of fucking Alizeh out of his system. Between the Scylla of a Hot Cougar who provides great sex (and a smattering of poetry) but nothing else and the Charybdis of a smart,sensual, witty woman who gives you everything BUT sex. Ayan faces the very essence of a First World Problem.
Ayan could be the spawn of SRK and Rani from KANK. And as unlikeable.
What’s refreshing about ADHM is the heavy coat of irony and humor that KJo infuses into scenes that otherwise teeter on the precipice of mawkishness (in his earlier films, they topple clean over). His couple may recreate song scenes from Chandni atop a snow covered mountain but the scene ends up confirming what most of us have thought at one point or another: Why don’t most Indian film heroes and heroines succumb to frostbite and hypothermia? And that hoary old Bollywood trope, the last minute Dash to the airport by the Hero to tell his Girl exactly what he feels is given a refreshing twist.
And kudos to KJo for his absolute refusal to give his Leading Man an easy escape route out of his self-created dilemma. Ayan remains, up to the very end, a pampered, immature and self-obsessed dick. I could never buy his love for Alizeh as genuine. This Man-Child isn’t in love. He’s in love with the idea of Being in Love.
The women on the other hand, are wonderful creations. Smart, resilient, flawed, charming, generous and fully fleshed out characters (a rare species in most Indian Films). I’ll leave out the “Vaatavaran” girl as she’s quite obviously the disposable comic relief (and a delightful one at that).
There’s that loaded dinner table conversation between Ayan, Alizeh and Saba that’s just brimming with layers of barely repressed conflict and anxiety. It’s the one I’m most likely to rewatch many times when I get ahold of the DVD later and the one that most reminded me of an “Imtiaz Ali” vibe, while the rest remains unabashedly a KJo concoction, the difference being that this time the sweetness is laced with a few dashes of vinegar. And tastes all the better for it.
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Anu Warrier
November 7, 2016
MANK, so if weren’t Johar, and Saba weren’t Ash, you would have bought that character? That smacks of stereotyping both of them, and not in a good way. BR explained it better than I could anyway, but it doesn’t seem to help. Let’s just say the great divide shall remain.
Sifter: at some point when you realise someone in your life wants more from you than you can give, it’s kindness to stop explaining and let them go. I’m firmly of the belief that except for our parents and children [not even spouse], we have the relationships we do because we get something from them, whether we admit it to ourselves or not.
@P – People talking in one language is not restricted to the north of the Vindhyas. If three Tamilians/Kannadigas/Malayalis/Telugu/insert language of your choice get together, they tend to fall back into the ‘majority’ language. If you are an eclectic mix of languages, then English becomes the bridge language. Like Madan, I find the ‘angrez chale gaye‘ dialogue very hard to stomach, unless 20-somethings are now becoming more insular. Most 20-somethings I know in India talk in whatever language is the common factor amongst themselves, and more often than not, in mixed company, it is English. I’m really curious as to your background, considering you say you grew up in Mysore, but never learnt enough Kannada. I must confess I have never come across a middle-class educated Indian who didn’t know at least two or three languages. An Indian who can only converse in English is a rarity, you must admit.
@Hari ohm, have you ever visited/lived in a city where you almost at once felt at home? Where you felt like you could put your roots down and the city would sustain you with its life blood? That’s how Bombay felt to me – opened arms and warm welcome, with a side of tough love. I’d lived a very peripatetic existence until then, Bangalore being my longest stint, and ‘home’ forevermore, until I got to Bombay. I cannot describe the contentment I felt being there, how safe I felt travelling home alone at 1pm in the night after work, how much part of the teeming millions already there. It’s hard to explain, really. 🙂 Even today, when my plane lands in Bombay every year, I switch to the window seat so I can see the skyline. That first sight of Bombay is like the first rains to a parched earth – it refreshes me. To me, that is my India. That is home.
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Anu Warrier
November 7, 2016
Kaykay, my friend, may I take leave to say I suddenly feel the most intense Alizeh-wali pyaar towards you? 🙂
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Most especially for this line: This Man-Child isn’t in love. He’s in love with the idea of Being in Love.
And for this: The women on the other hand, are wonderful creations. Smart, resilient, flawed, charming, generous and fully fleshed out characters (a rare species in most Indian Films). I’ll leave out the “Vaatavaran” girl as she’s quite obviously the disposable comic relief (and a delightful one at that).
You encapsulated the film so beautifully. That. Is. Just. It.
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MANK
November 7, 2016
Lord Kaykay has spoken and how 🙂
Oh your views as always expressed in your most kaykayish language is a treat even if the views doesn’t exactly toe my line.
In other news, your demi god ( and the fervent trump supporter) Steven seagal is now a Russian citizen, hope you had heard of it 🙂
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MANK
November 7, 2016
so if weren’t Johar, and Saba weren’t Ash, you would have bought that character?
Anu, oh oh, so after going through all my comments, that’s what you have ultimately deduced
Hmmm, okay 😀
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Madan
November 7, 2016
“If there was a conversation in Hindi-only there would a condescending “haan haan, koi iske liye translate to karo bhai!” ” – That does sound very mean.
“Its kinda demeaning considering that I am an Indian and English is as much a native tongue to me as xyz “more Indian language” is to them.” – Now this I cannot agree with all the way and like Anu I am now curious about your background. English is widely accepted as a business language first and foremost in India and because there are a lot of people who are proficient in it, they write books in English or write English songs/TV shows/films/plays etc. But it is not quite a native language of INDIA. English is only native to Britain (and you’d be hard pressed to find a Scottish person who would describe their language as English) and by implication to USA and Australia because Britishers settled down there. Canada has a mix of English and French. I do get where you’re coming from; you’re most comfortable in English and there are others like you as well. There is nothing wrong with that. But English is not an Indian language and I am sure Winston Churchill would shudder in his grave to hear his beloved language described as belonging to people he regarded as primitive savages.
“I mean I don’t make fun of their bad English, do I? Yet they come to me to help them write their SOPs and resumes, even wedding invites!” – Have you tried being assertive with them? Just tell them what your ‘limits’ are, that you genuinely feel offended. And if they don’t listen, ask them to find somebody else to help out with their resumes. In school, I was a bookworm and often got mocked for being poor at sports by the same folks who sought my help in studies, including but not limited to copying from my answer sheet. I used to also get taunted for not getting sports medals for my ‘House’. Once I got pissed off and deliberately bunked on the day of the quiz having agreed to participate and as I expected, my house lost. They were all like, “How could you let the house down?” and I was like, “Frankly, Scarlett, I don’t give a damn.”
“These same people look down on Indian movies and watch only House of Cards btw.” – So call them out on their hypocrisy….bluntly, so that it stings. It’s finally up to you. If you’re needy for companionship (and I am not saying you are), you will get taken for a ride and be subjected to ragging relentlessly. If you stand up for yourself, you will be relatively isolated but people will also respect your space and those friends that you do have will be the ones who respect and accept you the way you are. I at least have never bothered too much about properly telling such people as I really don’t need such so called ‘friends’ and would happily do without them in my life.
Agree with your last para too. And yes, BR’s blog is a rare ‘safe space’ where you can express that opinion. Elsewhere it may land you in trouble.
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Anu Warrier
November 7, 2016
@MANK: I was going off this: i would say the if someone was to make a full fledged film about saba… if that character is played by an actress who can portray her in all her shades , someone like Madhuri or Tabu and written and directed by a filmmaker who know that character, respect that character ,in a film deserving of that character ,then i would definitely love that and i would definitely watch that film.
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Madan
November 7, 2016
@ Anu I see your point too. After watching the film, my first impulse was to blame the Saba role on Aishwarya Rai’s acting. But upon reflection, I felt that she had done a pretty good job given what she had to work with and it was the role that was underwritten. As such, all four of the main cast played their parts very well and were largely beyond reproach.
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Anu Warrier
November 7, 2016
Madan, agree with most of your advice to P. I wouldn’t have much truck with people who treat me so badly so consistently. That said, I would argue that English is an Indian language today.As Indian as Urdu or Hindi or Tamil or… Winston Churchill can lump it. 🙂 In fact, Hindi would be more ‘foreign’ to a Malayali than English.
I tend to think in English as well, and that’s generally my language of choice, so I know whereof P speaks. The difference is that I’m equally comfortable in a handful of other languages picked up during my misspent youth, and it’s really really strange to come across someone in India! who is monolingual. I can see how her friends would see P as being ‘snobbish’ by speaking only in English.
All this aside, I’m also curious about P’s colleagues and friends – who are these people who, at work or outside, speak exclusively in Hindi – in Bombay? Is language-patriotism yet another ‘thing’ in India these days?
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Madan
November 7, 2016
“In fact, Hindi would be more ‘foreign’ to a Malayali than English.” – No doubt. It still isn’t quite a homegrown language, notwithstanding that we have appropriated it and gleefully improvised on it to suit the Indian context. Yes, I often think in English too and it’s the only language in which I feel comfortable writing, so I can empathise with anybody who would prefer using English to any Indian language but I was commenting at a macro level. It’s not a question of other languages being more Indian than English, it’s just that English isn’t Indian. I don’t mean it in the deshbhakt context though, just being pedantic. Really not my business what language somebody speaks in – be it English, German or Chinese. Whatever works for you. Yes, I have to say for the nth time that I am very curious about these Mumbai-bred deshbhakts and wondering how I haven’t met them yet. Maybe I should be thankful that I haven’t.
As far as being monolingual goes, given my experience with SoBoites, I don’t find it so surprising. As I referred to, I have known a guy who could not pronounce a common Indian name like Sathya without sounding like an American butchering Indian names. So it can happen though it is unusual. I would not find such behaviour snobbish in itself but that these SoBoites would also make strenuous efforts to appear oh so cool and subtly deride the ones who were uncool in their book so some of us suburbanites would get back at them by mocking their Hindi. And it was all in good humour, nobody got offended as far as I can recall.
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Anuja Chandramouli
November 7, 2016
KayKay: “Ayan, who prefers to let his Other Head do most of the thinking, most of the time, and pissed off at being friend-zoned by Alizeh, drifts into Lust with a matured Urdu Poetess (Aishwarya Rai Bachan, luminous) with a strictly no-strings attached policy with the express purpose of fucking Alizeh out of his system. Between the Scylla of a Hot Cougar who provides great sex (and a smattering of poetry) but nothing else and the Charybdis of a smart,sensual, witty woman who gives you everything BUT sex. Ayan faces the very essence of a First World Problem.”
You are to adult humour what Tarantino is to violence on-screen. That was simply beautiful! It made me want to laugh and cry. Like ADHM!! I salute you Sir!!
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MANK
November 7, 2016
Anu, this is my first comment abut Aishwarya –
And yes Aishwarya for once is really good. one of the reasons is that she has a short role and it falls with in her comfort zone. the character of this dream women stays within her acting range.
Its more than obvious that i liked her in the film. but if that character was to be expanded in to the main character in all its shades and layers in a full fledged film, then i am sure as anybody here that she doesn’t have the dramatic skills or the range to pull off that role.
Yes i have an issue with KJo in the treatment of this character and about which i have already written reams.
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brangan
November 7, 2016
Anuja Chandramouli: I second you on that. What KayKay does to the English language is what the hero of ’50 Shades of Grey’ does to the heroine. My all-time-favourite comment of his has to do with a mother-in-law and a Jaguar 😀
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Anu Warrier
November 7, 2016
@MANK, aniya, by now, I’ve forgotten what I first said about the movie! 🙂
is what the hero of ’50 Shades of Grey’ does to the heroine.
BR – splutter
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naveenkrwpress
November 7, 2016
I consider Indian English to be separate Indian language by itself. i doubt a native English speaker would follow an Indian speaking English comfortably. i am sure they would feel it foreign as much as an average Indian English speaker would find it difficult to follow a Brit or an American speaking in English. of course you have this accent neutralized/trained/coached Indians who try to not show their native Indian-ness of their English.
as far as Hindi is considered, from my meagre exposure, even in the so called Hindi speaking states the generation that has started going to school and later only understand Hindi. the older generation is not conversant in Hindi.. i have observed this in Maharashtra,Orissa and AP ( though not hindi speaking per se, but non anti Hindi like TN )
well these diversities make Indian so interesting, no 🙂
coming to ADHM did anyone find Premam Malare semblance in the title song, the starting piano piece. it also sounded a bit like start parts of Nee Paartha paarvaikoru nandri. Well, Pritam is known to get inspired a lot anyway
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MANK
November 7, 2016
Anu chechi😂. Have you seen the Ridley Scott movie The duellists. In it, Harvey Keitel and Keith carradine play duelling soldiers in the Napoleonic era who fights a series of duels over a period of some 15 years. They get obsessed about it to such an extent that they forget what started the duel in the first place.they just keep making up reasons as they go along to keep fighting.
Well after 300 odd comments, I am afraid,we are becoming quite like them😃
Brangan, one of my kaykay favorites was an epic Hrithik roshan takedown he did. I remember me with tears in my eyes ROFL ing
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MANK
November 7, 2016
Btw Brangan, have you heard the announcement of RGV’S new film, the 340 cr budgeted Nuclear for first time (and in all eventuality last time) producers CMA global about world war 3.😃
Any thoughts?
http://m.huffingtonpost.in/2016/11/07/ram-gopal-varma-just-announced-a-bizzarre-movie-about-world-war/
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P
November 7, 2016
“Also, remember that she does leave him (as in leaves being with him all the time) when he finally expresses his love for her, which happens to be at her wedding. ”
This is not true. Ayan leaves her at her wedding though she literally begs him not to. Even in Vienna Ayan asks her to leave at Saba’s home and then later when he runs to her he leaves.
Alizeh is as desperate for a non-threatening khandaan as Ayaan is for crazy, painful love. They both want from each other what the other doesn’t want to give. And they both learn to deal with it and live with it.
“I friend you, for whatever life there is left”
Thus I completely disagree with MANK that she has no inner life or reason. She is a real, human with desires and loves and feelings. The scene where she sees Ali (who is a part of her -even in name!) in France is the most charged and passionate scene of the movie, even if its background is screeching banshee-esque EDM. The way she stares at him- multiple emotions(hatred, happiness, anger, irritation, love, defeat- he is after all her tabahi!) tumbling through her face makes me wanna forgive Anushka for the crap she’s subjected it to!
Its also not fair to say that what Ayan feels for her is not love. If that can be said then one can say that what Alizeh feels for Ayan is also not friendship. Ayan really really loves Alizeh and he was the one who was originally attracted to him. He was staring ather before she even noticed him. He just maybe didn’t recognize his feelings for her immediately. But that scene in France in front of the fireplace is when they slowly started bursting through, and the phone call to Lucknow is when they completely exploded breaking him in the process.
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P
November 8, 2016
@Madan, Anu: Of course! I have mostly broken off on a personal level with most of these people. But one does keep in touch professionally. No point calling people out on their hypocrisy- most of them know it! 🙂
I used to be crazily social though so this is kinda new, in Bangalore I used to be a Veronica and now in Bombay I am like a Meera- hahahahaha!! Sometimes I come home from work on a Friday and then don’t go out till Monday morning. But the good thing about Bombay is that its so full of takeaway restaurants that I can actually do that! 😀
As for me, I don’t know how to explain it, my great great grandfather decided that since English is the language of the future that is what we were all going to speak. Even my grandma speaks in English (though she knows Tamil too due to studying in the erstwhile Madras Presidency). We have continued in that vein to this day. I learnt the smattering of Kannada that I do when I joined school. I learnt Hindi and Tamil from the movies that I love so much. So while I understand these languages and love them, they are not native to me.
I also grew up with British culture like you know FSB(Family Stay Back) going around in whispers when sudden guests are over and there is not enough mutton curry…that kinda thing…so a lot of Indian culture(that many Indians take for granted!) is just weird to me…I didn’t even know that something called caste existed until a rude reminder from a threaded brahmin sometime in high-school.
Ah, the Mysore angle is funny, my Bombay bred mom and Bangalore bred dad decided to up and leave to Mysore, open a farm, get a few cows and a dog, and become proto-hippies! 🙂 😉
Yes, of course I know that English is not native to India, but so is Parsi and Irani and Urdu and a host of other languages if you go back in time 😉 But it would never be ok for anyone to tell them that their native/mother tongue makes them un-Indian right? 🙂
I have never really been snobbish about it- though many many people think I am. (My ancestor took this decision for a reason and I am not just ok with that, I respect it and want to follow it as well.) At least my Bangalore/Mysore friends keep telling me that I am not. But in Bombay I have been made to feel like I am an other, like- how can you who only learnt Hindi from films think you can actually write a movie script in that language- kind of alien 🙂
You might be right about the younger generation being more insular. Plus more and more people from tier two/three towns are mingling in big cities these days and those are by nature more insular no? I mean I cannot tell you the number of times I have been told ke “tum sawthies national language mein baat kyun nahi karte yaar!” LOLZ 😀 I have stopped trying to explain to people who they are factually, morally and legally wrong! 😛
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P
November 8, 2016
naveenkrw….
“I consider Indian English to be separate Indian language by itself. i doubt a native English speaker would follow an Indian speaking English comfortably. i am sure they would feel it foreign as much as an average Indian English speaker would find it difficult to follow a Brit or an American speaking in English.”
Not true. That sounds a lot like Chetan Bhagat’s excuse for his bad writing. 😉
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Anuja Chandramouli
November 8, 2016
BR, you are killing me! “My all-time-favourite comment of his has to do with a mother-in-law and a Jaguar😀”
How come I can’t find this particular KayKay comment? (Googleji is being stubbornly unhelpful though I stumbled on some interesting threads from this blog) How come I missed it in the first place? And how crazy am I to obsessively search for the damn thing at the crack of dawn?
BR and fellow BR and/or KayKay fans, put me out of my misery and send me a link to the thread or copy, paste the comment and I swear I’ll be so grateful I’ll include you in my will!
“What KayKay does to the English language is what the hero of ’50 Shades of Grey’ does to the heroine.” May I say KayKay, that is high praise indeed for BR has long made the English language a willing slave to his masterful command of it and is himself a fan anointed King of Kink 🙂
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P
November 8, 2016
Also MANK: “And as for ‘How women can tolerate being a mummy to a grown up man is beyond me’, i thought you were just that kind of women”
WUT! You saw me defend a virile masculine man like Bajirao and deduced this?! Hey bhagwaaaan!!!!
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Sifter
November 8, 2016
Aran- Haha, could be. I now see that as a USP of Hindi movies and the ‘vanthodarthal’ and being called a ‘romantic’ for that the USP of Tamil movies
P- She does cut him off after a point…atleast after her marriage to Ali. She doesn’t seek him out, he does. She doesn’t seek him out after her separation from Ali, he does. Then after the dinner debacle with Saba and Alizeh (Saba’s character was brilliant in the few minutes that followed after that. That is some great woman right there, who chooses to walk away once she realises she is getting attached to Ayan who’ll always be chasing the unattainable ‘love’ of his), he runs off to the latter and screams at her to ‘let him go?’ Really?
Being mummy to a grown up man It may be due to their ego, this ‘goddess complex,’ that could make them mummy’fying (!) their grown-up men!
Anu- Let them go? What makes you think that I haven’t? There was never a hold even during the ‘foo-boo’ days or when there was a’ glimpse’ of friendship…not even an imagined one. That ‘explaining over the years’ was purely from a detached point of view I won’t get spilling anything more personal here because this is not the place!
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Sifter
November 8, 2016
P- The scene where she sees Ali (who is a part of her -even in name!). Wow. Had a sense of déjà vu reading that!
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KayKay
November 8, 2016
“Kaykay, my friend, may I take leave to say I suddenly feel the most intense Alizeh-wali pyaar towards you”
The feeling, dear Warrior, is entirely mutual 🙂
“In other news, your demi god ( and the fervent trump supporter) Steven seagal is now a Russian citizen, hope you had heard of it”
MANK, not surprising given his “friendship” with Putin
Ole Steve has long scaled the heights and pitched a flag on his own self-created Mountain of Delusion. In that aspect he’s the Hollywood version of TR, the difference being, unlike Steven, I don’t think TR is a dick in real life
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Anurag
November 8, 2016
@Rahul thanks for the response. @brangan ‘I do a deep dive on films because (1) that is the way I am naturally wired, (2) I enjoy doing this and it comes instinctively to me, and (3) it is my job. 90 per cent of people are just casual watchers, and one cannot and should not expect the same level of engagement.’
That was the most satisfying response to my real mental conflict.
Now going further that makes me wonder is that if the filmmaker is really doing something different in the ‘how’ this time, then irrespective of whether the 90% people get it or not, there needs to be some kind of subconscious impact on people so that some of the observations you have mentioned should have worked in some way e.g. ‘how sensational some of the blocking was. That triangular scene between Anushka, Fawad and Ranbir – you got all permutations of twosomes. And there was so much energy in the staging and cutting.’ – I personally find reading that part very exciting and goosebump inducing but being a 90% audience, i am only concerned with whether the film affects my experience in a much better /stronger/more memorable way than at least any of the earlier karan johar films. If that does not happen, i feel it is merely the growth of a filmmaker for his own learning, it is the growth of perception of the filmmaker in the eyes of his critics but it may not be any memorable experience at all in the minds of us 90% people out there. For us at the end of the day, we will still keep having that unconvincing but strongly emotional feel that the bad twist in the tale offset everything that was good till that point in the film. May be because inherently we indian audience are more ‘purely emotional’ than ‘logically emotional’.
I agree with MANK above when he said ‘You are approaching it purely from a technical pov , which helps you to get back on track there , while many of us are perhaps approaching it form purely emotional pov.’. It is fair to say that from a technical pov, our thinking is narrow minded in that sense. And its not a deficiency. A filmmaker never makes a film for just critics and if its not working for the majority, then that should be the final word.
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brangan
November 8, 2016
Anurag: All this technical stuff is not stuff the average viewer is supposed to notice. They’re meant to affect you in an unconscious manner. All that framing stuff — I’m just saying it added to the moment. It’s entirely possible that the moment would have worked even with a static wide shot, with just great performances. I pointed this out just to note the difference in Karan’s filmmaking.
I did respond emotionally to the film. Had the moment not worked for me emotionally, I’d have said something like “the film has been staged well — but there’s something missing. There’s no emotional connect.”
Which is not to say I haven’t liked films that did not “move” me emotionally – Saawariya is a great example of a “cold” film that works very well for me. But this one, I did get into and enjoy emotionally as well.
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P
November 8, 2016
Sifter: Goddess complex! You said it! That’s the problem and then men get used to being babied and become incapable of independence. Especially Indian men who are already pampered silly by their mothers.
Also you said:
“Wow. Had a sense of déjà vu reading that!”
Did my writing remind you of the movie you mean? I love that scene, yeah, I know I know the dinner scene is going to be everyone’s favorite, but that scene, that IS love right there. Ugh. I mean I have never even met a college-time love ever again but I imagine that if I did, this is how I would feel. Anushka was pitch perfect in that scene.
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KayKay
November 8, 2016
B & Anuja C……………………Nooooooooooooooo!!!
Have I been anointed the Lord Of The Lewd, The Viscount of Vulgar,The Priest of The Profane, The Duke of Debasement, The Seer of Sacrilege in these parts????Say it ain’t so hahahaha 🙂
“What KayKay does to the English language is what the hero of ’50 Shades of Grey’ does to the heroine!
And here I was thinking that I was doing to English what Newland Archer did to the Countess Elena Olenska’s satin gloves in The Age of Innocence 🙂
Is it a sign of encroaching senility that I can’t seem to recollect my so called “epic takedowns” and jokes in these comment sections?
“BR and fellow BR and/or KayKay fans, put me out of my misery and send me a link to the thread or copy, paste the comment and I swear I’ll be so grateful I’ll include you in my will!”
Anuja, I have no idea where or when I made that comment but it could have been a certain movie, or scene, or actor where I may have said I have mixed feelings…. like seeing your mother-in-law go over a cliff in your brand new Jaguar…or something to that effect. Seriously not worth the effort to Google 🙂
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pankaj1905
November 8, 2016
I have learnt so much from the comment section, so, thank you, everyone for the enlightening discussion 🙂
I really enjoyed the film. At some point, Ayan says that there are two characters—love, the hero, and friendship, the heroine. Ayan was the love, the hero, and Alizeh was friendship, the heroine. Saba could be called the third character—sex.
Perhaps. Also, Saba means soft breeze, while Alizeh means wind. So, kind of related in some ways there..
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hari ohm
November 8, 2016
Thanks Anu for the explanation.
And regarding this “All this aside, I’m also curious about P’s colleagues and friends – who are these people who, at work or outside, speak exclusively in Hindi – in Bombay? Is language-patriotism yet another ‘thing’ in India these days?”
In Mumbai I know of so many people who exclusively speak in Marathi leave alone Hindi. There used to be a time when Marathi speaking people where looked down and used to be called as Ghati’s, that is changing slowly and steadily.
And language patriotism does not become yet another thing with one or two people’s experiences. To me it is a good thing that the regional languages are flourishing/should flourish especially Marathi and this is evident with the giant leaps Marathi cinema has taken.
My 5 paisa.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
November 8, 2016
KayKay : “the Lord Of The Lewd, The Viscount of Vulgar,The Priest of The Profane, The Duke of Debasement, The Seer of Sacrilege”
Great alliteration !
You’ll give AL Narayanan a lot of competition.
(You know “Adhula Art irukku…Anaa heart illa” and that sort of thng)
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Anu Warrier
November 8, 2016
Hari, yes, they were looked upon as ‘vernacs’ – which always seemed very funny to me. But let me tell you the experience from the other side: I love languages; I try my best to have a working knowledge at least of the local language; the Maharashtrians (in office) were the only people who laughed at me when I tried to speak in Marathi and told me I should stick to Hindi. If it hadn’t been for my neighbour who did laugh at my manglng of her language, but took the trouble to kindly correct me, I would never have learnt Marathi. Indeed, my initial [immature] response was to say something short and pithy in Marathi to my colleagues.
I am glad that Marathi cinema is flourishing, but you’re conflating language patriotism with Marathi cinema flourishing. Regional cinema in the south, for instance, has flourished in spite of Hindi cinema having a pan-Indian presence. Marathi cinema stagnated because a) they had reached hte nadir with Dada Kondke and his ilk and b) because they were also based in Bombay, which was home to the Hindi industry, and the regional cinema couldn’t challenge its better-off sibling in terms of money or production values. But Marathi theatre continued to have a vibrant presence because there was an audience for it. At the end of the day, film-making comes down to commerce. Marathi cinema’s resurgence has less to do with a sudden interest in language, and more to do with coporate money coming in. The economics has changed. And yes, it is great!
Jingoism, whether of language or region or country, can only diminish us as a nation. If we cannot see ourselves as ‘Indian’ instead of as Maharashtrian or Malayali or Tamilian or Kannadiga or…. , we will always have some morons take advantage of our regionalism.
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brangan
November 8, 2016
sravishanker1401gmailcom: Great alliteration !
No surprise there. KayKay has always been a cunning linguist. 😀
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
November 8, 2016
BR : DOFL ! (Dont want to say more for obvious reasons)
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harish ram
November 8, 2016
Loved the film a lot. Probably the 2nd best film of KJ after KANK, mainly for the dejavu reasons. Both Dharma n Ranbir has done this already many a times. Another issue I had with this film was the age of the leads. Seeing the man child character of Ranbir, I was wondering how different and refreshing it would have been had the film been set on a early twenties couple instead of the near 30s couple. Yes I agree maturity isn’t age bound. But by reducing the age, the film would surely have connected with the audience better IMO.
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harish ram
November 9, 2016
Also want to add, why was SRK playing his character one note higher than all the other actors? Even Aish of all people was in a lower meter.
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Sifter
November 9, 2016
P- Anushka was perfect in that scene…agreed.
I meant that ‘déjà vu’ for this— is a part of her -even in name!– I may have indulged in such silliness as well 🙂 🙂
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P
November 10, 2016
Sifter: aww me too (: back in school I’ve done so many silly things! 😛
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
November 10, 2016
(Inspired by BR’s awesome review and the awesome blitzkrieg of comments by everyone here)
CARTOON : “AE DIL HAI MUSHKIL”
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asmamasood
December 21, 2016
My review- “Ae Dil Hai Mushkil”: Urdu must be saying “Uff!”
https://asmamasood.wordpress.com/2016/12/21/ae-dil-hai-mushkil-urdu-must-be-saying-uff/
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blurb
December 23, 2016
Watched this recently. My initial apprehensions about Ash were rightfully put to rest by how beautifully she pulled off the character. She is so much at ease, and she naturally becomes Saba.
Just wish I knew better Hindi (or Urdu?) to understand and appreciate the couplets better!
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Saurabh Sharma
January 22, 2017
Have read some excerpts from the “An Unsuitable Boy” and he has stated that “he is not in touch with the person he loved.. The person got married and moved country”.
So “Ae dil hai mushkil” is not based on SRK definitely.. Also other excerpts from the book says that “karan consider srk as elder brother and it hurts when somebody talks about their relation”.
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theartofexpressions
January 24, 2017
From “An Unsuitable Boy” –
“The only critic I read and take seriously is Baradwaj Rangan of The Hindu. He is fantastic. He has not liked a single film of mine except Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna. One day, out of the blue I got an email from him. The irony is that he wanted me to write a foreword for his book. I told him I loved his reviews and would write the foreword in a heartbeat, which I did in spite of being all busy. He still doesn’t like my movies, but it doesn’t bother me. I don’t care. That’s who I am”
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adits90
February 5, 2017
Can you look at an actor’s work through the prism of Auteur Theory?
I am reading Love in the Time of Cholera and was reminded a lot of Florentino Ariza’s character while watching Ranbir act. There’s, like you say, a certain feminine shade in the personality, the same heart-wrenching divide between what he wants and what he repeatedly gets, the angst-filled conflict between messy, real love and the ideal, platonic love of his fantasies, and most importantly, a lifetime’s habit of feeling more alive in seeking love than being able to relish happiness on finding it.
I really wish Karan Johar, having gone so far out of tradition, could have pushed further and made the film more edgier, darker (I got exasperated at the ‘cute’ baldies dancing on retro bollywood but moments later fist-pumped at Karan’s audacity to trigger the final argument in her house) because the film deserved it. This is Imtiaz territory, and I never thought I’d say this, but Johar seems more willing to delve deeper into the darker abysses of the heart. Imtiaz is too much of a romantic to really hurt his characters (love for him is eventually a healing, transcendental force) and a more cynical filmmaker like Johar could really have pushed into uncharted waters.
Nevertheless, I loved the extensive use of Urdu in those settings, was pleasantly surprised with Aishwarya Rai’s performance and was glad to see Ranbir still willing to become so vulnerable on screen.
Yet, it’s time for him to reinvent his image.
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brangan
February 5, 2017
adits90: That was a bliss-out of a comment. Thanks.
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Amit Joki
July 9, 2017
Just saw the film and have to say, delighted. Your review is like the sweet dessert right after a hearty main course.
By the way, have you noticed, Karan Johar has also made first masturbatory joke too, too bad you missed Baddy 😀
And it is Shah Rukh who says it: After leaving the comforts of the wife, my hand found its way 😀 😀 😀
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Rakesh Gawande
January 3, 2018
A Channa Mereya cover my friend made –
http://www.nashikites.com/first-cover-video-of-nashiks-mahima-gang-on-youtube-is-splendidly-done/
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
November 30, 2018
CARTOON : AE DIL HAI MUSHKIL II
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