Posted on March 14, 2017
This was done when AR Rahman was in town to release the music of ‘Lake of Fire’. We didn’t get much time with him, but we did get to tour his school. My favourite part of this experience is also least “professional” aspect. We barely got any time to set up, and I used a lapel mike to conduct the interview. Was fun.
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Baradwaj Rangan 
writeawordatatime
March 14, 2017
God, I miss your good old text based website. Just checked in after about two years and seems there are changes galore in BR’s professional life!! I prefer your regular mainstream newspaper print based reviews ,and the elongated versions here as good reviewers, cultural , film critics and writers in India barely exist. It is as necessary if not more than going completely digital, obviously to cater to the younger demographic.
Honestly, I wish you the best and I hope I am proved wrong but after checking the FC site and its content , I’m not sure about this collaboration.
Please don’t mistake BR, it’s just your quality and your whole thinking, writing about film and cinema is getting diluted in your new avatar.
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brangan
March 14, 2017
writeawordatatime: Have you seen the site? It has my written reviews too.
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Madan
March 14, 2017
Nice interview. Nice to see the wonderful facility ARR has built for those who wish to formally learn music. Really awesome too that he would co-credit Qutub-e-kripa for the background score. He could just as easily make them do it as part of ‘internship’ and swindle them out of credit. Even if it may not be completely altruistic (given that it’s a kind of advertisement for his conservatory), it’s still a nice gesture.
P.S Is it my imagination or did Yash Pathak start to say IR was the one/the first and then converted it into an ‘also’? 😉
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writeawordatatime
March 14, 2017
Am not sure if you were being sarcastic BR, I’ll let it pass, well, the fact that you are there is the reason that I felt it diluted. How different is the site from any other film based portal with ads and regular Bollywood/Hollywood stuff (reviews yet just simply stuff…). It didn’t stand out for me , just one of the numerous. The fact that it has known names like A Chopra (have not been taken in by her film writings) and then you, doesn’t help much. May be I’m jumping the gun. So, when I get time, I will come to your site here for the reviews and the discussions that follow in the comments section below.
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brangan
March 14, 2017
Not being sarcastic at all. Got the feeling you’d just seen the videos, so wanted to tell you there were text reviews too.
Even in The Hindu, my stuff was with a lot of stuff by others. Only the blog is an “exclusive BR” space. So instead of finding my writings among other writings in The Hindu, you’ll find my writings among other writings at FC.
Of course, if the site doesn’t work for you, can’t argue with that.
But as I said earlier, you’ll always know what’s up there, because I’ll link to it on my blog. Do drop by when you can 🙂
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Anu Warrier
March 14, 2017
BR, I wonder whether you would consider just posting the entire review here as you used to do with your writing for The Hindu? With a statement at the end saying ‘This piece was first published in FC.’? Seriously. It’s frustrating to make FC the discussion page, or to read there and comment here…
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praneshp
March 14, 2017
@Anu Warrier: That would be a disservice to his employer, no? They probably depend on page views/hits, given that they pay BR so you can read his reviews for free.
I hope as they grow bigger, they start some sort of subscription model.
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Amit Joki
March 14, 2017
Praneshp: Unfortunate that this is a wordpress.com blog and not a .org where we could probably have synced the disqus comments from FC and here.
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turnherintoliterature
March 14, 2017
Is it my imagination or did ARR come across as being a little snotty?
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sanjana
March 14, 2017
FC is getting free publicity because of BR going there. Otherwise most of us do not know about its existence. While The Hindu is too big and too well known for decades.
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Anu Warrier
March 15, 2017
pranesh, eh? The Hindu was also paying him, no? With digital content, as far as I’m aware, one can publish one’s work on a personal blog with the source credit being given to the original site.
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blurb
March 15, 2017
Is anyone even posting anything in the FC site? I bare myself open when I write comments. I don’t see myself changing domains or starting anew anytime soon. I just hope BR continues to have the time to moderate and engage with the comments here.
That said, lovely video. Simply loved it. I wonder about all aspects of film making and music. Thanks so much shedding light into the lesser know universe of ARR’s school.
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blurb
March 15, 2017
brangan This video didn’t have any credits in the end. But, say, for the Vetrimaaran interview video — is the crew hired by FC, or is it contracted or something?
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praneshp
March 15, 2017
@anu warrier: I’m not talking from a copyright/credit PoV. I’m not sure how FC makes money (I don’t see any ads on their site, but I block ads at my router, so maybe someone else can confirm this for me.).
But what I’m sure of (having worked at a somewhat similar industry in the past) is they would want to maximize eyeballs/engagement on their site, and one of their writers diverting viewers away doesn’t help with that. With the Hindu, my guess (again, I cannot possibly know this for sure) is that they were not as dependent on page views on their website, given that they have a large subscriber base.
Or I could be totally wrong and @brangan is just lazy.
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shaviswa
March 15, 2017
@Turnherintoliterature I felt the same. This is one of the most irritating interviews of Rahman. Snotty, snooty, you can call him anything. He now speaks like Ilaiyaraja Version 2. The air of arrogance, the facade of simplicity and spirituality, the lack of humility – they are all there just like Raja.
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shaviswa
March 15, 2017
I agree with others that the FC website is not working well with long time BR readers. There is some connection that gets lost the moment you click on the link and the FC page opens. Not sure why but there is definitely a disconnect.
BTW this video will qualify to be ARR’s worst. Was this because he was not mentally prepared for an interview? Did he feel forced? He comes across as arrogant and disinterested.
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Anu Warrier
March 15, 2017
pranesh, I’m sure you’re right. 😦 I’m talking from a purely selfish viewpoint. I really can’t see any of us having the sort of discussions we have here, on the FC site. That site isn’t really friendly to in-depth discussions of any topic. Here, there’s a community. The FC site is not conducive to building one. YMMV.
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Madan
March 15, 2017
Ahem, as an IR fan, I will defend ARR a bit here. (i) He has said that he usually sleeps during the day and works by night because if he tries to work during the day, there are too many distractions (like interviews 😉 ). So maybe he was just sleepy and struggling to focus (came across that way, i.e., disinterested). (ii) It looks like he has put on a lot over the last couple or so years and maybe it’s just catching up with him. Just look at this interview from 2014. Looks a lot more vibrant here:
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brangan
March 15, 2017
So I’m saying that IF you want, you can still have the discussions here. I don’t see the confusion at all.
There is one major change, yes — the actual reviews and pieces are going to be on another site. But as I see it, it’s a ONE-TIME inconvenience. Click a BACK button and you can resume as though nothing had changed.
If I put up three pieces a week, it’s three extra link clicks, three extra BACK clicks to get back here. And then, after that first time you go and read a piece on FB, you never need go there again.
IF you so wish, of course.
I don’t know why people are assuming I expect the discussions to continue on the FC site. If you want to comment there, sure. But if you want to comment here, what’s stopping you? The people are still here. Yes, some of them will leave. Others will take their place. That’s the way it is.
PS: At the Hindu, my pieces were heavily edited, and I used to put up my unedited pieces here. With a web site like FC, there’s no word limit. I cannot duplicate content and take away hits.
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blurb
March 16, 2017
BR, it is not as simple as clicking a button. Some things are going to be a real pain in the butt going forward because this shift.
Consider this: a lot of times, more than the article’s content itself, it is the imagery, texture and emotion that remains with me permanently. A while back — at the risk of sounding like a horny teenager — I remember being highly taken by the imagery of smoke raising slowly from a post-coital cigarette. I do a search on your blog. It was the P.Susheela article — “a sensuous tune that unfurls like smoke from a post-coital cigerette”.
Sometime ago, I remember reading a blatantly atheistic line in your article — don’t remember the context, but remember the phrase “god chappie”. Searching right now….
.. It was the article you had written post the Chennai floods.
Now, one could argue that the same search could be done on the FC site or on Google — but I find that the accuracy is remarkable when everything is within wordpress.
But, yes, only somethings are a pain. The other things — like this video you put up might have never seen the light of day… or even be made if you were at The Hindu. So, for those, I am mighty thrilled.
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KayKay
March 16, 2017
“I don’t see the confusion at all.”
Neither do I, B!
If I wanna read the reviews, I click on the FC site. To comment I get back here. It’s not like I have to change 2 buses to get there and back is it?
Hell, sometimes I jump straight to the comments without leaving the blog cause this is where the cool people are 🙂
And your non-Tamil reviews are still written and posted here as per usual.
Wot iz zeee probleem?
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KayKay
March 16, 2017
Madan, I totally agree. ARR just came across tired that’s all.
He still has some way to go before matching IR in full “Durvasa Munivar” mode! Which is pretty damned often!
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brangan
March 16, 2017
KayKay: It’s not like I have to change 2 buses to get there and back is it?
KayKay. Dude. Thanks for this, man. I really needed this perspective, this laugh. 😀
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Sifterr
March 16, 2017
He used to come across as arrogant during his award speeches or shows to me, but in this interview, I did not feel that usual arrogance at all 🙂 Different takes for different people, i think.
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praneshp
March 16, 2017
@Amit: Sorry I missed your comment earlier. Disqus is a good idea, but I’ll be surprised if they make it to the end of 2017.
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Rahini David
March 16, 2017
BR: Pretty much shows how much people crib about very small changes and that certainly includes me.
My problem is not that there is another site that actually contains the review and I need to come back here to comment which is of course no problem at all. But there are so many videos and streaming involved. Typically, I read the reviews immediately after you post it and when a commenter says something about your review after a 30 mins gap I know exactly what s/he is saying. But now I see and think “hmm, ARR review” and then I can stream it only 5 hours later. So a typical office-goer who is a regular reader IS facing almost a lifestyle change after you switched your job. I certainly can’t sit here and stream stuff all the very time. I used to click this site about 50 times a day and now it is 5.
If I switched my job today, no one other than the man who makes coffee for me is going to notice anything at all and that too for a couple of days.
A regular is going to be a regular, but if so many people are feeling so one with a blog that isn’t theirs, then I guess you can certainly count as a blessing. If you sat and counted your blessings, then it must be around 12,473 for that seems to be the number of people who have complained to big daddy.
Blurb: Try “Naughty phrase of choice” “Baradwaj Rangan” in Google and the relevant articles do show up. Comment section’s gems are lost anyway. I don’t think it is possible to dig out a gem by say Anuja or KayKay using these search engines. Oru kaalathla if I needed “Keladi Kanmani Kadhalan sangathi” I had to wade through 55 cassettes and then fast-forward “Kalyana Maalai kondadum penne” and “Guruvayurappa.” Aanalum senjuttu thaanea irunthean. 😀
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brangan
March 16, 2017
Rahini David: True. Even in the earlier version of the blog, one could not search comments. WordPress does not give you that facility. But when I am logged in, I have a “comments search” facility. So if you give me keywords, it should be possible to unearth a comment. Unless, of course, you want a comment from KayKay with the keyword “sex.” Something more specific, I mean 😀
Oh, this is certainly a blessing. I value the community here, Heck, my last book had an acknowledgement to you guys 🙂 If someone still wishes to be a part of this blog, they are most welcome to. I don’t see the comments having decreased at all.
And the video issue you mention… there’s just one video review every week, and one video interview every couple of weeks. I understand these posts might give you a streaming issue. But otherwise, most of it is still pretty much text. So apart from that one inconvenience (for the first time you need to read a post), there isn’t much change IMO.
Strangely, the blog viewership stats have shot up after my move to FC. Can’t explain it, but it’s happened…
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MANKMANK
March 16, 2017
now I just keep 2 tabs open in my browser all the time instead of one , one for this blog and one for FC. When I get a notification of a new Brangan post , I first go to the FC site read it and get back here to comment about it.- no way I am commenting over there 🙂 – . I am beginning to get used to this process now.
its not exactly the way I want it, there are issues of emotional disconnect , adapting to the layout of a new blog etc etc,… but look at the positives.. Brangan has been reviewing Malayalam films like never before . And I have always felt Brangan and Malayalam cinema are made for each other. the review for Angamaly diaries was epic and saw brangan at his vintage best after a long time. Also there are lot more video interactions of Brangan. for people like me who have never met him, its a nice way of getting acquainted with him a little bit more intimately , perhaps even more than a person to person interaction which sometimes might turn out to be uhh.. disappointing 🙂
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Rahini David
March 16, 2017
^^^ MANKMANKMANK: This is some BIG fanboying.
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Rahini David
March 16, 2017
Did we ever think that a ARR thread will be about BR’s blog and it’s layout and commenters and fanboying and fangirling and such like? It is almost as if we deliberately left ARR out of the party, but in that interview ARR is practically screaming “LEAVE ME ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE.” Always willing to oblige, Madras Mozart.
I really like that other dude in the interview. As in I REAALLY like him. If he’d only have a one day workshop or something for those who are a big zero in these things I would gladly pay and find myself the first seat.
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MANKMANK
March 16, 2017
Rahini, I noticed that only after posting , any
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MANK
March 16, 2017
well I got a new laptop. its playing tricks with me , I didn’t exactly post that earlier comment , but what the hell 🙂
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Aditya (Gradwolf)
March 16, 2017
Pah pah so much entitlement!
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MANK
March 16, 2017
but in that interview ARR is practically screaming “LEAVE ME ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE.”
Rahini, that’s ARR’s natural self in all his interviews. I never found him an engaging conversationalist. its quite strange that he now wants to be a film director because I never thought he was the directing kind , but perhaps since its a virtual reality thing may be, he might pull it off.
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Bala
March 16, 2017
This may be too early but how about putting up a paywall for reviews that don’t go up on the FC site ? Or atleast find out if people are willing to pay a nominal amount ? I have seen single person run business blogs like stratechery work wonders with that as well the-ken locally. If it works well, you may have an additional revenue stream and more options for the future 🙂
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Anu Warrier
March 16, 2017
KayKay saar, of course I don’t have to change two buses to get back and forth! Heck, I don’t even have to get into one. 🙂
And of course, BR, you cannot take FC’s clicks away from them. [That had been a serious question, by the way, since I wasn’t sure if you could.]
But the many commenters who felt the change did so because they think of this blog as their own. Your response, while understandable, is dismissive – Leave if you don’t like it. [Not in so many words, but the underlying implication is such.]
We are happy for you, we would like you to be as successful at FC as you were at The Hindu. This [complaint] was more from a sense of loss – not just of the comments because I’m sure regulars will keep commenting – but of commenting under an empty space, of not being able to scroll up and re-read the bits that we particularly enjoyed…
‘It is what it is’ is true (and one of the nastiest statements in the English tongue), and cannot be changed, but it wouldn’t have taken much to acknowledge that sense of loss that your community of readers are feeling, instead of going on the defensive; certainly, it would have been gracious of you.
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brangan
March 16, 2017
Anu Warrier: it wouldn’t have taken much to acknowledge that sense of loss that your community of readers are feeling, instead of going on the defensive; certainly, it would have been gracious of you.
My comment was a genuine effort to explain why and how things are. It’s all a bit bewildering to me too, so I do understand what readers are feeling and I did not intend to be “inconsiderate.” I apologise if I sounded so.
But to be honest, a lot of the early comments came across to me as hasty and “inconsiderate” as well.
A mere two days into my new job, you said this: “So far, and perhaps it’s too soon to tell, this move’s been a disappointment all around.”
That could be read as “inconsiderate” too. I could have told you what you’re telling me now, that “it wouldn’t have taken much to acknowledge that this is a huge change for me as well and I am going to need some time to sort things out, instead of going on the offensive; certainly, it would have been gracious of you.”
You may have meant it out of frustration or whatever, but the cold text suggests something else. That is the nature of the written comment. Some amount of benefit of doubt is usually par for the course.
I was not asking anyone to leave or — worse — to lump it and deal with it. I do wish things were back to how they were. But I would be naive to think everyone is going to stay despite these changes. I was just trying to deal with that, and maybe I didn’t express it well.
At the risk of repeating myself, this is a huge change for me too and a sense of disorientation is in me too
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vijay
March 16, 2017
Rahman looked bored. But in his defense, the questions were sort of boring too. I didn’t expect BR too to ask the mandatory “humility” question which usually leads to the “spirituality” answer. why?
Need a more relaxed full-fledged interview with him maybe sometime in the future.
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vijay
March 16, 2017
BR, just a suggestion. Just like a guest blog maybe you can consider a guest interview now and then where one of your readers can take up the interviewer’s mantle on your behalf, somebody who is well versed in the subject’s work and/or happens to be a fan who can also articulate quite well. You can give these Rajeev Masand-type interviews a skip once in a while and outsource stuff.
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Anuja Chandramouli
March 16, 2017
BR: I know you have received a lot of flak in these parts, but if you think about it, it’s actually a giant compliment. Especially since we are discussing hardcore fandom here. Think of yourself as the Rajinikanth of the blogosphere. I mean the poor guy tries to mix it up a little with Baba or a Raghavendra and the fans get all rabid on his butt.
We are all crazy BR fans too. I mean it’s as Rahini, Anu and the others have been saying. We read every word you write gazillion times. A lot of my sentences begin with ‘As BR puts it…’ And there was the time I spent the better part of a day fruitlessly searching for KayKay’s mother – in – law Jaguar comment. Right now, I am racing to meet a deadline and I still have to add my two cents worth here.
So yeah, the transition phase is rough for you and some folks here, but I think we’ll all get over it. So hang tight everybody!!
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brangan
March 16, 2017
Anuja Chandramouli: I know. And I cannot express how grateful I am. Truly.
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lakshmi
March 16, 2017
Anuja Chandramouli: searching for KayKay’s mother – in – law Jaguar comment.
That KayKay comment you’re looking for is in Bitty Ruminations 69 😀
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Anu Warrier
March 16, 2017
That could be read as “inconsiderate” too. I could have told you what you’re telling me now, that “it wouldn’t have taken much to acknowledge that this is a huge change for me as well and I am going to need some time to sort things out, instead of going on the offensive; certainly, it would have been gracious of you.”
Touché. 🙂 Well-played, sir. And your point’s well-taken.
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brangan
March 16, 2017
Anu Warrier: Thank you for taking that in the right spirit. KayKay is right. This is where the cool people are.
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brangan
March 16, 2017
vijay: Need a more relaxed full-fledged interview with him maybe sometime in the future.
You get me more than six minutes with him (including set-up time) and I promise you a real good interview 🙂
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Anuja Chandramouli
March 17, 2017
Lakshmi: Thank you so so much!!!! I am so including you in my will. Bless you!!!
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brangan
March 17, 2017
This is right out of Screenwriting 101. One big blowup of a screaming match to get all the bile out, and it’s a happy family again 😀
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Shankar
March 17, 2017
…and instead of the singing the childhood song from the flashback, we become a happy family recounting memorable comments from reviews long gone by! 🙂 I love it! 🙂
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Jyoti S Kumar
March 17, 2017
I believe everyone is aware that AR Rahman is a very private person, an introvert. And it is the bane of an introvert that they are interpreted by many as snobbish. (It has been my personal experience too) There are even books on this subject eg Susan Cain… So maybe we should not just jump the gun about his arrogance?
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brangan
March 17, 2017
Jyoti S Kumar: To add to your comment, it’s also an extreme inconvenience when you have just half an hour before you fly out somewhere, and are forced to squeeze in two five-minute interviews. There was a radio station crew waiting behind us. As much as I wanted him to talk, I could totally understand his “I wish I were anywhere but here” air.
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sanjana
March 17, 2017
Engirundalum vazhga!
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
March 17, 2017
sanjana: The line has a different connotation in Tamil. 🙂
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shaviswa
March 17, 2017
I have seen some of his other interviews. I do not think this interview reflected his introvert nature. He was behaving in an obnoxious way. His answers also border on arrogance.
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Rahini David
March 17, 2017
Jyoti and BR: My life is one long sweet song of people going “Hey, you are actually a nice person. I just can’t believe it.” on me all the time. Yes, people assume that introversion is arrogance. (People actually believe that this is a flattering thing to say)
However, even on a bad day I can say “Yes, 25 years is a long time. Not been on nostalgic trips what with my tight schedule, but one of these days I should think about all that”
It is the duty of the interviewee to engage in the interview to a certain extent. It isn’t as if he was forcefully asked inappropriate questions on the red carpet.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/magnus-carlsen-world-chess-champion-is-kind-of-a-dick
Note: Not saying ARR was acting as terrible as Carlsen was. And he was such a dear in that video Madan shared.
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sanjana
March 17, 2017
That song from Nenjil oru alayam. Whats the actual meaning? Is it something to do with something inauspicious? Enlighten me.
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rothrocks
March 17, 2017
@ Rahini: Thanks for sharing that Carlsen article. The first question is framed as “Why are you so media friendly?” It reminded me of what they have said so many times in business communication 101. Never ask a close ended question. The interviewer is right to feel puzzled that Carslen wasn’t expansive in his response and Carslen couldn’t because of the nature of the question. Ok it’s better than asking him point blank “Are you media friendly?” but it is still a question that presumes too much about Carslen (and hence his “who told you that” response). It’s no wonder the interview never recovered from that point on. I also don’t really agree with the interviewer’s attempt to relate it to an everyday convo. This was NOT an everyday convo; this was an interview and the only reason there was an interview was because of Carlsen’s fame. There is no need for an interview, come to think of it. It is itself a product of celebrity culture. Why does it even matter what kind of person Carlsen is anyway when it’s his chess wizardry that’s brought him fame? But no, we still want to satisfy our curiosity and Carlsen obliges but tries to do so on his own terms. Which is fair enough. Perhaps Carlsen would have been happier answering purely chess related questions (with the danger that his bullshit meter would have been on overdrive like how IR pounces on anything that he interprets as a wrong/dubious statement).
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
March 17, 2017
Make that of what you will:
Wherever you are, long live
Let your heart in peace live
With a sacred look you live
With divine kum-kum, you live
Here, one man may be waiting
Youth’s beauty, he may be sighting
Past day, he may be recollecting
O – Goddess – you live
Hoping you would come
I stayed alone
Of course you came
With a partner you came
To save your partner
A duty you gave
O – Pure woman – you live
The lighted flame
Must be permanent
In the dark home,
Must give bright light
Adoring husband
Must get life
O – Golden woman, you live
—A wise YouTubeian
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Rahini David
March 17, 2017
Madan: I agree that it was a close-ended question. But the interviewer is basically another person, he is going to ask a question that isn’t exactly what you want. The first question may not be perfect, nor the second one and he may well be a doofus and if around the fourth question Carlsen wants to shift to monosyllable mode and be done with it, then I quite understand. But the need to make a good interview must come from both parties.
A celebrity is a celebrity because of the existence of fans. And when an interview happens, the celebrity is actually communicating to his/her fans through the interview. So if the interviewer is asking silly questions, it is the celeb who should gently change the direction of conversation into what he or she prefers, no? He may decide to give interview only to someone knowledgeable in chess. That should be informed clearly before the interview is scheduled. I believe it is decided beforehand if personal questions are allowed or not. One male celebrity may not want to talk about his female fans, another maybe dying to answer that question because all this female attention is new to him and he is quite excited. How is an interviewer to know?
If the celeb does not have the temperament to handle these stuff, then the best route is the one adopted by Ajith. Simply say no and stick with it.
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rothrocks
March 17, 2017
@ Rahini Ideally yes what you say is correct, that both interviewer and interviewee should work to get the best out of the interaction. But in practice it’s all about the power equation involved. For example, in a job interview, what the employer asks and how it is asked are equally important but the onus typically is on the candidate to overcome a cranky interviewer and still impress. It works the same way in celebrity interviews. If the celeb thinks he’s gonna get something, some mileage out of the interview, he will work harder. If ARR looks dapper and responsive in that Masand interview, it’s partly because he knows a lot of people are going to watch it and he wants to project his best face for the interview. If he doesn’t think it’s that important, either he will refuse it or he will say alright and give a bored interview. As we can see from BR’s description of this here Rahman interview, not all of them have extensive preparation behind them and it doesn’t seem to be the case with the Carlsen interview. I am not justifying their behaviour (that told, he/ARR are not really being rude by giving half assed answers, neither attacked the interviewer). But I think it’s unrealistic for them to be on their best behaviour all the time. Just like we have our bad days, our mood swings, they probably do as well. Yes, they could opt for not being interviewed at all but the media would paint them as a recluse or secretive or whatever if they only want to protect their privacy.
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sanjana
March 17, 2017
Wherever you are, long live
Let your heart in peace live
Only first two lines.
I meant to say
All the success to you whereever you go.
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Jyoti S Kumar
March 17, 2017
Totally relate with you, coz the same line has been repeated to me many a time. Also the rock version, “all these days I was afraid to talk to you”… 😀
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blurb
March 18, 2017
Am I the only one to think that this was a lovely interview? 🙂 I really cannot emphasize enough as to how much I loved it.
Celebrity interviews are generally too practised and boring. I can do an RR for the interview and my answers would be in perfect sync. It’s like they read out of the textbook from Interviews 101. It’s these raw, in-the-moment ones that have some genuine flavor to it.
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Ramchander Krishna (@ramctheatheist)
March 18, 2017
BR, I’m really beginning to like the videos you’re making! This ARR interview, the Vetrimaaran one and the Maanagaram review & interview with the director worked really well. I especially liked the idea of review and interview coming together. Looking forward to more!
Also, not sure why some felt ARR was being snotty. He’s always been crisp and concise. I think it’s the nature of some people to not complicate things too much inside their heads. To me ARR feels like that kind of person. Even when Rangan asked if individual songs standing out will become the future trend, his response was very simple. “I don’t know and can’t predict the future.” He doesn’t wish to complicate his mind by having unnecessary thoughts. He even says that towards the end, “When you want to reinvent you have to take off all the old luggage and throw it off. Go marching with nothing!” That’s also the reason he simply says “No” when Rangan asked the question about thinking back to Roja’s time.
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Madan
March 18, 2017
@ Ramchander Krishna/blurb: While I also don’t think ARR was being snotty here, he CAN be more expansive than this (see the Masand interview). He chose not to here for whatever reasons, which is not unusual and you can find this for lots of artists that they open up in some interviews and in some they give very brief responses. So I am not sure this is necessarily his natural pattern. Rawness as ‘feel’ is nice, but overall the interview doesn’t let us learn anything new about ARR (barring the question about Qutub-e-kripa, which was the only part where he elaborated).
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Altman
March 19, 2017
Speaking of arrogance, How about Ilaiyaraaja sending legal notice to SPB for singing his songs in a concert without permission? You can’t match this.
http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/ilaiyaraaja-sends-legal-notice-spb-says-spb-doesn-t-have-permission-sing-his-songs-58840
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praneshp
March 19, 2017
Well, others were criticizing ARR for not being friendly here, I think he will never stoop as low as Ilaiyaraaja. Shameful. Raja is ensuring his last few years are going to destroy what we want to remember him for.
I hope @kadakumar has something to say. Also I’m really angry because I am going to his concert in 20 hours or so 😦
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
March 19, 2017
Altman & praneshp: He issued one against the FM channels two years ago. Aren’t they playing his songs now? But to do this against somebody who has been your closest pal for 50+ years is very upsetting.
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brangan
March 19, 2017
Raja’s genuis was always in his music, never in his personality. If you talk to people from the industry — old-timers, newcomers — every one has such horror stories to say about him. Some first-hand experiences. Some hearsay. I mean, if you could just hear the story about what happened with Kutrame Dhandanai… So again, we should be thankful for his music and that’s that.
But in this issue, I am curious about one thing. Yes, after Raja started his label(s), maybe he bought the rights to the music. But does he own his other songs too? Let’s say SPB wants to sing “Vaa ponmayile…” Does that belong to the producer? Or did Raja buy the rights to all his music? Or did his contracts grant him the rights of ownership? Does anyone know how this works (legally speaking, I mean)?
Madan: My one big “get” in this interview is prodding Yash and getting the fact that he was using Raja’s music in his classes. I mean, in Rahman’s school!! Was hearing “kaching” in my head when he said that (he’s seems a bit unsure at that point I ask him “whose music do you use?”, as though he’s unsure whether to say something…) This bit made it worthwhile
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Madan Mohan
March 19, 2017
@Brangan: Yes, I had mentioned that up thread. In fact, he was about to say Raja was the one/the first and then converted it into an also. 😛
Re the copyright issue, I don’t know about Indian copyright laws specifically but the convention has usually been that it is not a bar on live performances. I mean, how does a band get up and going if they are not allowed to cover somebody’s songs? It would depend on the specific agreement between IR and the producer/singers. Or he may simply be trying to scare SPB by using lawyers and unless the latter gets a clearance from his lawyer that IR has no grounds on which to block him from performing, he would also not want to take the risk. But it’s absolutely draconian for a composer to insist nobody can perform his songs live. Not completely unheard of but very unusual. I don’t know what the exact issue between him and SPB is (i.e. going beyond what was reported) but it’s disappointing nevertheless.
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MANK
March 19, 2017
There was a similar issue between K.J.Yesudas and Unni menon which ended in a lot of acrimony, with KJS backing down from his stand
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/No-roylaty-demanded-by-Yesudas/articleshow/593255.cms
But man , filing a case against the singer – who could be called your soulmate – just before he was to go on the stage is downright condemnable. but i wonder if there is more to it than meets the eye. may be some third party was involved here
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ThouShaltNot
March 19, 2017
Abjectness of spirit is nothing new to Raja. But, legal threats to a friend who has offered you the most effusive praise in public settings is maybe the most asinine and vilest of his moves yet (SPB’s role in Raja’s success is not a small one).
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Aditya (Gradwolf)
March 19, 2017
http://www.thenewsminute.com/article/singers-are-minting-money-composer-doesn-t-get-1-rupee-ilaiyaraaja-s-consultant-tnm-58868
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tonks
March 19, 2017
Aditya (Gradwolf), thanks for sharing. Put like that, Ilaiyaraaja’s stand does seem justified.
Also, I didn’t in the least feel that ARR gave off an arrogant vibe in this interview though admittedly he is not exactly sunshine and joy, but reading the comments, perhaps that is explained by his reserved nature and tiredness. I remember a friend’s selfie with Rahul Dravid in an airport : the former was beaming but I’d never before seen a more miserable looking Dravid 🙂
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Aditya (Gradwolf)
March 19, 2017
@tonks: Everyone looks miserable in an airport right?! 😀 (Unless you are the kind that appears in those fashion blogs with #AirportLooks (ugh!))
But seriously, so much scrutiny for just 5 minutes with Rahman? I don’t know what people expect out of interviews but what do you wish to learn in 5 minutes of an interview where the focus is on the school? And we do learn from Yash Pathak – like it should be – the guy who is a legitimate part of nuts and bolts there. We do analyse too much! 🙂
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ThouShaltNot
March 19, 2017
Although by sheer volume, SPB’s hits may have been for Raja (and to a lesser extent MSV), he has given memorable hits for other MDs as well. It should be possible to complete a successful tour without singing any of Raja’s numbers (at least for a Tamil audience). It might be surreal for many in the audience, but at least won’t derail the tour. This song below is a Shankar Ganesh composition and one of the finest SPB renditions IMO. You can also sample his peppier romp for SG in “Vaa machaan vaa, vanaara pettai…” (yes, the song that put “Silukku” Smitha on the road to eternity should bring the roof down anywhere)
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sanjana
March 19, 2017
In that case, what are the rights of lyricists?
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Madan
March 19, 2017
@ Thoushaltnot: Agreed. While there’s no doubt that his collaboration with IR is a definitive chapter in his career, SPB can very well get on with it without IR’s compositions. He has more than enough songs with MSV and ARR to do a show without them. Seriously hope he does so rather than settling with IR. You can’t put a monetary value on the depth of such a long standing association, one in which SPB has at times made a veiled defence of IR’s personality and regularly paid rich tributes to his talent. If this is how IR wants to deal with a long time friend, that’s really too bad.
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ThouShaltNot
March 19, 2017
Permit me one more indulgence in like fashion, a KVM-SPB tour-de-force with a bonus – the late Shobha at her endearing best (sorry for the jarring notes given the topic is about arr)
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brangan
March 19, 2017
From Madhan Kartky’s FB page:
On Royalties
Seeing with the lens of law, what Raja sir did is right. A song is owned by the composer, lyricist and producer.
Seeing with the eyes of friendship, it doesn’t seem right. A call instead of a legal notice may have sorted things smoothly.
Whenever a song is played or performed outside a cinema hall, for public, royalties for that song will be collected and distributed to composer, lyricist and producer.
Royalty societies like IPRS will collect such royalties and distribute.
Even if Raja sir has not permitted an organisation like IPRS to manage his royalties, and is managing by himself, he still does not own the song completely.
Even if Raja sir is performing in a public event, the royalties for those songs should go to the respective lyricists and producers also.
If the writers or producers send a legal notice to him, he will not be able to perform the songs without their prior permission.
I am happy that Raja sir is taking this issue to a bigger stage, even if it is bitter to many, so we can get together to understand royalties.
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brangan
March 19, 2017
Again, I am a little confused here. When we are talking about the Beatles, for instance, they produced the albums. It was an album they put out. So they get the royalties.
But what a music director does is part of a film that’s produced by the producer. Ilayaraja or Rahman aren’t shelling out money to make this music. So we have an intellectual copyright (i.e. for the composing part, by Raja or Rahman) plus an ownership issue (i.e. the producer).
So are we saying that in India, the producer owns the movie but not the music he pays for? Are the contracts designed this way? So when Chaiyya Chaiya was used in that Spike Lee film, do they have to ask Madras Talkies or Rahman? And the money — does it go to Rahman or Madras Talkies?
I’m finding this fascinating…
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Aditya (Gradwolf)
March 19, 2017
“Again, I am a little confused here. When we are talking about the Beatles, for instance, they produced the albums. It was an album they put out. So they get the royalties.”
Even a case like that isn’t as clear as it seems. There is the Bittersweet Symphony history that happened – perfectly legally:
http://www.thevervelive.com/2005/05/bitter-sweet-symphony-controversy-and.html
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MANK
March 19, 2017
Brangan, I read somewhere that AR Rahman owns the copyright of most of his songs. I don’t know how it is with Mani rathnam films, but there was this much publicized issue regarding om shanti om where shahrukh Khan refused to part with the copyright and ARR walked. Initially it was publicized that ARR was composing for oso.
Maybe Raja also owns a lot of his songs. He certainly had the clout as he was a one man industry for a long time
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
March 19, 2017
BR: Not sure about music, but that’s true in the case of motion picture photography. If I were to reproduce a scene from Roja for my film, I should seek the permission of Kavithaalaya Productions; Santosh Sivan hardly owns copyrights for those shots that appear in the film. That’s because the producers (and distributors to some extent) technically “own” the film.
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Aditya (Gradwolf)
March 20, 2017
IIRC, the 2015 case against 4-5 recording companies that Raaja won gave him sole proprietorship to his songs (most of them coming under those companies). And this case happened because the agreement signed during those productions were valid for only 5 years and had become null and void by 2012. And he said he’ll share the future royalties with producers, lyricists and singers.
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MANK
March 20, 2017
Honest Raj, but is that actually followed in our country?. I know it is religiously followed in Hollywood films. You could see everything _ story, screenplay, music- copyrighted at the end of the closing credits
Aditya, it’s ironic isn’t it so basically IR is stopping SPB from singing to protect SPBs interests 😃
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KayKay
March 20, 2017
Although, legally what Raja did was correct, I maintain it was still a dick move on his part. Even presuming, SPB and team forgot to seek Raja’s permission (which they should have, as it’s not a charity concert and everyone from the organizers to the performers would be raking in serious moolah and the composer deserves a cut) would a simple call between friends of over 4 decades not have sorted this? Actual Legal notices can then follow as pro forma.
Thankfully, the Finest Playback Singer of his generation had hits with virtually every composer to grace the Tamil Film Scene (MSV, KVM, V. Kumar, Vijaya Bhaskar, Shankar Ganesh, ARR, Sirpy, Deva, Bharadwaj), so the man can still pack in a stadium for 4 hours without having to sing a single note of the Ngani’s compositions.
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praneshp
March 20, 2017
@KayKay: True. He went on for 3 hours and we listed almost 10 obvious/popular songs that he didn’t sing. He had 0 Deva songs, for example.
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Raj Balakrishnan
March 20, 2017
Just a quick question to anyone who is aware. You have these small time musicians performing songs from famous movie albums in weddings and other functions – do they have to pay royalty to the relevant composers/producers too?
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Aditya (Gradwolf)
March 20, 2017
@Raj: Legally they have to. But Raaja (conveyed by his legal consultant) said he will only go after people who are making big monies out of this and not people who live hand-to-mouth performing at small time functions, hotels etc. This can be read in several ways, admittedly. But I guess they (Raaja’s side) do have a point.
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Raj Balakrishnan
March 20, 2017
Thanks Aditya for that clarification. I think Raaja is right, actually feel sorry for him. Unlike ARR who is aware of the legal intricacies and has therefore managed to tap into all revenue streams, Raaja has not got anything in the form of royalties. I remember once reading that the late Balu Mahendra had used Raaja’s album in his movie ‘Veedu’ without his permission. The current generation of composers are more aware of their rights.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
March 20, 2017
MANK: Because we usually don’t take copyrights seriously (of course, unless somebody “reuses” our works without permission/attribution). This could probably be a reason why many of our filmmakers have the luxury of churning out “unofficial remakes” every now and then.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
March 20, 2017
Raj Balakrishnan: I remember the ‘Veedu’ story. Maybe, that’s why BM chose L. Vaidyanthan for his next film, Sandhyaraagam?
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Raj Balakrishnan
March 20, 2017
@Honest Raj, obviously Balu Mahendra was wrong there. Raaja did not sue him then.
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Madan
March 20, 2017
“would a simple call between friends of over 4 decades not have sorted this?” – Yes, this is the part that rankles. Per SPB’s communication, he wasn’t informed about it prior to the notice. He is not complaining as to why IR couldn’t have sorted it out some other way, but it does sound like he’s hurt because he mentions “I too have my self respect”. I really don’t understand how burning bridges with a friend is supposed to help IR’s cause. Anyway, his decision and SPB is not going to perform his songs so why should I care.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
March 20, 2017
Raj Balakrishnan : You’re spot on with your comments.
Before anyone gets any more emotional about this , please do read Mario Puzo’s ‘The Last Don’ which deals with this subject at length.
One of the characters ( a writer) even commits suicide because he doesn’t get the royalties due to him.
Big money always leads to these wrangles. its one of the readons robert duvall didn’t figure in Godfather III.
CARTOON : BRAIN-FADE
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Shankar
March 21, 2017
There needs to be some clarity here about the actual issue. What KayKay says is right. The promoters are raking in big bucks for these series of concerts. There is zero consideration for any budging of that even for charity purposes. The fact is that the notices were issued to the event promoters not to SPB himself. The organizers are hiding behind SPB’s back and making this an emotional issue. Of course, it helps that IR is demonized enough so that even the neutral music fans can be swayed as such.
For the matter of record, ARR holds all rights to his music and nobody messes with his team. The IPRS not having the means to enforce royalties causes the composers to adopt these tough stances.
Again, for the record, IR has been securing the rights to all his songs, over the past few years, even making payments to old time producers in cases. In his interviews, he has mentioned that he wants to get everyone involved a part of that moolah. ARR has said the same too.
In Indian music, copyright has always been murky. Here is some reference from the western world:
http://filmmakeriq.com/2008/09/copyright-music-composers-and-performers/
It’s interesting to note towards the end of that article, that other than the composer, even for a film, others are considered work for hire and have no copyrights on the output.
Again, as a music fan, did I want to see this play out this way? No! But it’s important to have some perspective and not just assume and jump on the bandwagon!
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Shankar
March 21, 2017
And no, the film producer does not hold the rights to the soundtrack…it’s the label or the composer. Once the composer acquires the rights from the label, if he did not own it at release, it becomes his. Interestingly, I picked a random 80s film and the wikipedia link has this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poovizhi_Vasalile
And this goes even beyond songs: http://www.hindustantimes.com/bollywood/salman-s-film-title-in-copyright-issue-with-ar-rahman/story-KwDgb7QaS9OrBYhxdCyzLM.html
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ThouShaltNot
March 21, 2017
The issue is not whether a composer deserves royalties for his creations or whether he can sue for copyright infringement. Of course, he deserves royalties and of course he can sue. But, it is one thing to sue commercial houses or even individual usurpers who infringe and quite another to sue a lifelong friend who had a substantial role in your very success (last time I checked they were still friends). Call me old school, but throwing a friend under the bus or humiliating him in public is simply not done !
On the merits, here is one copyright expert’s take on the matter :
http://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/what-do-copyright-experts-feel-about-wrangle-between-ilayaraja-and-spb/298274
Pratibha Singh mentioned in this article defended India TV (& Vasundhara Das) and eventually won that case brought by Yash Raj films. See here for details:
https://indiankanoon.org/doc/115992789/
And Raja’s brother Gangai Amaran reportedly weighing against his own brother. He is a bigger friend of SPB. No, really 🙂
http://www.indiaglitz.com/gangai-amaran-criticizes-isaigniani-ilayaraja-for-legal-notice-to-spb-chithra-mano-tamil-news-181686.html
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Madan
March 21, 2017
Leaving aside the legal nitty gritty, I hear now that SP did not perform a show in USA last year for IR because he had demanded a steep hike in fees from IR which the latter did not give him. So now IR is getting back…in a way that he is fully entitled to. Nothing to see here, just a financial tussle. Of course IR is going to get the flak because the public is not privy to whatever were the backroom negotiations between him and SP but if there is any truth to what I mentioned above, it shows that perhaps SP is no saint either. For a friend, I could understand making a phone call to give fair warning. But is somebody who tries to fleece you off your own shows really a friend?
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Madan
March 21, 2017
Another thing, according to IR’s lawyer, there is nothing new about the whole business of obtaining permission from IR and he blames the sponsor of the particular show that SP was a part of for not getting the prior permission. So IF it is an issue that is really between the sponsor/organiser and IR, it is a fair call imo. Looks unpleasant but it seems to me that the organiser is playing some mischief here, really. Not going to elaborate further, because this has become a very emotionally charged debate (less so here than elsewhere on the net).
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Srinivas R
March 21, 2017
From what I know about the issue, the legal notice was sent to the event management company that organized the concert and not to SPB. If they had sincerely wanted to address the issue, they would have spoken to Raja’s legal team to sort out the issue. SPB going on social media and publicizing the issue was an unnecessary diversion IMO. The event management company and the singers would rake in the moolah, it’s only fair, the MD gets his due
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sanjana
March 21, 2017
After reading all the comments, I am warming up to IR and his fight. He deserves some compensation and this to be worked out between them. So the troupe has to negotiate with every composer and lyricist whose songs maybe sung. Some composer maybe happy that his songs are sung and appreciated and he may not be bothered much. I am using ‘he’ and now it is striking me as to the absence of female composers. Why is there a paucity of female composers?
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MANK
March 21, 2017
For the matter of record, ARR holds all rights to his music and nobody messes with his team
Shankar, even for the Mani Rathnam films?
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MANK
March 21, 2017
Madan, yes i read about that issue and it seems that there has been a major falling out between SPB and IR.. they are not even on speaking terms anymore, so in that context IR picking up the phone and talking to SPB does not arise. i always suspected there was something more to this issue. whatever kind of man IR is , you just dont believe that he will issue a court notice out of the blue to SPB
As more and more facts emerges , this whole issue is turning out to be like Rashomon . May be Mani can make Iruvar 2 about SPB and IR 🙂
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Rahini David
March 21, 2017
APART from everything else, creators like other composers and lyricists get to know their rights and learn that it alright to ask for it. If this is new to Tamil Nadu, then let it be new to Tamil Nadu. We have to start somewhere. If this becomes a reality, then it becomes lucrative to be a creator/artist and when it becomes lucrative to become a creator or artist, the economy and the arts boom.
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Madan
March 21, 2017
May be Mani can make Iruvar 2 about SPB and IR – Ha ha, good idea. And with Rahman’s music. Would be the ultimate irony.
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Sundar
March 21, 2017
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/ilaiyaraaja-sp-balasubrahmanyam-fight-copyright-royalty/1/909147.html
Well in the first place IR might not have known about the notice. this might explain the ‘why a phone call couldn’t have solved the issue’ question
“”Probably he (Ilaiyaraaja) could have come to know of it in the later stage but the attorneys don’t have to wait for our approval for issuing notices. They preemptively seek explanation and send notices, as claiming royalty after a performance is a hard process,”
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Vidhya
March 21, 2017
There seems to be much ambiguity on this. When legality is clouded, it would have been better to be more tolerant / communicative on this.
But people branding Raja as money-minded etc is unfair. As someone rightly mentioned – he has been brutally forthright always and his integrity and commitment cannot be questioned (eg his composing out-of-the-world songs for obscure smallish movies)
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Vidhya
March 21, 2017
While on this, I did a check on Wynk music app and Maestro’s music app.
Wynk – owned by Airtel
Maestro’s – possibly approved / curated by IR (as otherwise it would be the most blatant violation of his copyright yet)
Wynk – has few songs of IR mostly the ones from the year 2000 onwards eg Manasellam and some from the earlier days likeMella Thirandhadhu Kadavu, Uyarndha Ullam, Raja Paarvai, Virumandi, Uzhaippali
Maestro app has no songs from the above movies. Imagine an IR-songs app without Andhi Mazhai Pozhigiradhu… Or Vaa Vennila
Only the bgms from MTK, Virumandi etc are included.
Songs from Thalapathi are not there in both the apps.
So IR seems to be taking this quite seriously and barring Kamal or Mani or AVM who have possibly gained copyrights on some works, the remaining are with him…
Oru mellisana kodu – adha thaandi neeyum varaadha…naanum varra maaten… !!
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Anisha
March 22, 2017
How about the role of these audio labels? Once the song is recorded and out in the market, doesn’t it kinda sorta become there’s too? I don’t think any label bought Muthuramalingam’s album though, lol.
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Ravi K
March 22, 2017
If Indian copyright law is anything like in the US or other countries, there are different rights associated with different aspects of a song. For example, to use the composition and lyrics in a cover version of a song to use in a movie or something might be less than the cost of licensing the original recording itself. So in theory IR must be compensated for the composition and the lyricist for the lyrics. Not sure who typically owns the rights to all the recordings (producer or record label) or whether the ownership has changed.
BTW, what is the history of the Echo label? I’ve heard that IR owned or co-owned it, but I haven’t been able to find out who else is involved.
Vidhya wrote: “Songs from Thalapathi are not there in both the apps.”
Thalapathy is one of the few IR albums not released on the Echo label. It was released by Lahari. Maybe this has something to do with it?
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
March 22, 2017
Raj Balakrishnan: I’m not defending him either but they reconciled sooner, didn’t they?
Gangai Amaran’s rant on this issue seems misleading:
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naveenkrwpress
March 22, 2017
the music shows in the name of cultural shows in countries with strong currency ( usd, sgd, Euro ) is a big business. even those who were in semi-final of super singer shows make lot of money on these tours. in the SPB50 context, the organizers have let down SPB. it is a legal issue, not an spb-IR fight
Michael Jackson was a top earner the year he died ( or th next )…there was no album from his a decade before his death. it is time the indian artistes take royalty seirously for their own good.
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Shankar
March 22, 2017
Julian Karikalan who recently worked with IR on a film as producer/lyricist has said this:
Dear Friends,
Discussions about Copyrights and verbal abuse on social media without any basic understanding of the issue in hand has been the hot topic this week. So, I thought I could shed some light on the actual laws that exist to protect the Intellectual Property rights of music creators and producers.
Having worked with Maestro Ilaiyaraaja for my English movie “Love and Love Only”, I speak from a Producers perspective. Having written the lyrics, I also speak from a Lyricists perspective. Finally, Raaja sir gave me the special opportunity to release the music worldwide myself. I did that through my own label and had to learn the copyright laws as a Music label. For explanation purposes, I am using the Copyright Act 1968 of Australia, which is quite similar to any other part of the world.
Firstly, there are three forms of copyright that exist in music. They are
Musical Work (Melody, Harmony, Rhythm)
Literary Work (The Lyrics)
Sound Recording (The actual recording)
The owner(s) of Copyright in the Musical Work or the Lyrics have the right to:
• Reproduce or copy the song ;
• Publish the song;
• Perform the song in public;
• Communicate the song to the public (such as by radio, television, or internet);
• Arrange or transcribe the musical work;
• Translate the lyrics.
The owner of the copyright in a sound recording of a song is NOT the owner of the copyright in the song being performed and recorded but rather the person identified as the ‘maker’ of the sound recording. Simply said, the person who paid for the recording to happen is the maker. This is usually the Producer of the movie who pays the composer, singers, musicians, the studio and all staff associated with the recording. Many people asked this question on social media about why the composer should hold the rights and not the producer. Hope this clarifies that doubt.
In case the producer employed the composer and the lyricist, the producer becomes the sole rights holder for all three rights. For example, AVM studios used to employ some composers as Studio staff.
However, law differentiates employees and independent contractors. An independent contractor paid to create music or lyrics is still the first owner of copyright in the works they create, unless there is a written contract that transfers ownership of the copyright to the producer. In most of his films, Ilaiyaraaja sir was not an employee but an independent contractor commissioned to write the music and songs for the movies. Therefore, he is entitled to the copyrights associated with the ‘Musical work’, as defined above.
The owner of the copyright in the Sound Recording has the exclusive right to:
• Make copies of the Sound Recording
• Cause the Sound Recording to be heard in public
Communicate the Sound Recording to the Public (such as by radio, television, or internet)
• Enter into commercial rental arrangements in respect of the Sound Recording
The singers and musicians can claim a part of the Sound recording copyright if they are not paid for the task upfront. Once they get paid, they don’t hold any rights in the recording unless there is a written contract stating otherwise.
The author should usually have put in creative skill and effort in creating the work. When you perform someone else’s creative work, you are just a performer and not the author. The requirement of ‘composition and creation’ means that a person must provide a significantly original contribution to the creation of the musical work and/or lyrics in order to be recognized as the co-author of the work. For example, Ilaiyaraaja sir himself cannot claim copyright for the songs he has sung for Yuvan or Karthick’s compositions, provided he was paid for the task, as he is only a performer in this instance.
Performing rights are the right to perform music in public. It is part of copyright law and demands payment to the music’s composer/lyricist and publisher (with the royalties generally split 50/50 between the two). Public performance means that a musician or group who is not the copyright holder is performing a piece of music live, as opposed to the playback of a pre-recorded song. Performances are considered “public” if they take place in a public place and the audience is outside of a normal circle of friends and family, including concerts, nightclubs, restaurants etc. Permission to publicly perform a song must be obtained from the copyright holder or a collective rights organization.
I will give you an example with reference to “Love and Love Only”.
As the maker of the sound recording, I hold the copyright for the sound recording. As the composer who wrote the melody and the complete score for the movie, Raaja sir holds the copyright for the Musical work. I can communicate the sound recording to the public, make copies, sell the music as the soundtrack of the movie and use it for any promotional purposes for “Love and Love Only”.
However, if I decide to run a commercial stage show (selling concert tickets) with a Symphony orchestra playing the complete score of my own film, I would have to seek separate permission from Raaja sir and share the profits with him. But if Raaja sir decides to use the same tune for another Indian film, he doesn’t need my permission, as he is the copyright holder of that melody. That would be a totally separate sound recording paid for by the producer of that Indian film. But that producer cannot use the sound recording of “Love and Love Only” as is.
Those who have bought the Music CDs of “Love and Love Only” can check the back cover for clarification. It would have ‘JUVI Digital Co’ next to a P within a circle, and Raaja sir’s name next to a C within a circle, and they refer to two distinct rights. Those who don’t have the CD can check that here.
All these rights could be transferred to third parties through written contracts. When written contracts aren’t made, this is how the copyrights are to be split by default, and this is how it is supposed to work. Please feel free to ask for any clarifications, and I shall research further for you. And, please avoid verbal abuse on social media without proper research and understanding.
Sincerely,
Julian Karikalan
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blurb
March 23, 2017
Shankar thanks, that was very informative.
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shaviswa
March 23, 2017
@Shankar The Julian Karikalan email clarifies any question that people may have. Clearly, IR is within his rights.
Gangai Amaran should look at a different issue to wash his dirty linen.
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brangan
March 23, 2017
“What if Piraisoodan were to send Illaiyaraaja a restraining notice against using his lyrics? “Would he hum the tunes without the words?” he said.”
https://thereel.scroll.in/832427/spat-between-southern-music-legends-showcase-the-poor-implementation-of-copyright-laws
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Shankar
March 24, 2017
Baddy, not sure if the Scroll article has all the facts right. The mention that producer owns 50% copyright is wrong. No copyright act anywhere has said something like that. Who is this author of this article? Is he an expert or does he have experience in this area? Maybe this person is, but just asking since a lot of the vitriol is because of a lack of clarity and understanding of the issue. And wrong assumptions and information just pours more fuel into the fire. I’m not sure what you were trying to highlight here…
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brangan
March 24, 2017
Not trying to highlight anything. Just saw another POV — an article that spoke to people I know, like Prabha Sridevan. Just thought it would add to the discussion.
My stance on this is that I’m not comfortable with the way this whole happened, but one never knows who did what, and just because Raja has a reputation for being arrogant or whatever, doesn’t mean he is in the wrong. That said, I still wish this had all played out differently.
I also liked the last line, which I really believe in. A really good song is 50% music, 50% lyrics. I know you’ll probably disagree, but this is how I like my music.
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Raj
March 24, 2017
My advice for SPB supporters who feel IR is wrong about asking money and should share his income with singers -please ” Mathavanga Kaasula Socialism pesadheenga”- Gounder style!!!
No one knows what happened behind the scenes. Rumor is out that SPB charged a lot for IR’s US tour last year and ditched the show when he was not paid enough. IR might have approached SPB and asked him to pay royalty but since he refused IR took the legal route. So before doing character assassination of IR we need to get facts right. Since no one knows the fact please don’t pass judgment.
I was at the SPB concert in San Jose. There was a lot of melodrama in the way SPB spoke- trying to play the victim card again after his FB post( in my opinion that was unnecessary to open up an individuals issue into a social media debate).
He even sang “Unnakenna Male” from Simla Special and was all acting up before the stanza -” Yaar Year nanban yendru yemmandha nenjam undu” and left the stage right after the song. His son had to come up and say that Appa is disturbed after those lines and reiterated that it was not planned to hurt anyone. Why would Charan who said there are thousands of non IR songs to choose, choose this song? All planned to create some drama.
I beg to differ with people who felt IR was the one at fault for sending a legal notice to a friend. Do we even know whether they are the kind of friends that they project on screen? I have not even seen those 2 together in any recent functions.
SPB here is the media savy one and IR like his music is raw in approach.
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ThouShaltNot
March 24, 2017
Watch this Puthiya Thalaimurai TV video clip below (one can jump straight to 9:51 to see Dhananjayan’s clarifications) on the 50-25-25 split of the royalty.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
March 24, 2017
Raj: Do we even know whether they are the kind of friends that they project on screen?
I’m sure most of us have changed our views now. About the friendship part, SPB played a key role in shaping up IR’s career and was a part of his early success. And this was widely acknowledged by IR himself. Yeah, there was a rift between them in the 2000s as they hardly collaborated for film music during this period.
ThouShaltNot: That’s a pleasant surprise because Dhananjayan speaking about IPRs is akin to Hitler endorsing world peace. 😛 His Pride of Tamil Cinema (1931-2013) has several chapters plagiarised from Wikipedia (without attribution) and the DFF archives. And this book was awarded a Special Jury – Best Book on Cinema National Award!
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Rahini David
March 24, 2017
So people plagiarize Wikipedia these days? And get awards for doing so? Good to know.
I have just found what I am going to do with myself after I am kicked out of my current job.
😀
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ini
March 24, 2017
brangan: Opinion on Kaatru Veliyidai album? I personally found them all insipid, dull, and been-there-heard-that. I liked Sarattu Vandiyila though, catchy tune.
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Shankar
March 24, 2017
@ThouShaltNot, I’m not sure where Dhananjayan is getting his info from. There is no such thing as an IPRS act. IPRS is a society or body (non-profit) setup under section 33 of the Indian Copyright Act of 1957 to monitor copyright. I actually read through the entire Indian copyright act (a simple google search will help you find it). There is no distribution percentages mentioned anywhere in that act. It’s the same with copyright laws in other parts of the world too. Maybe I’m missing something, but I can’t see the 50-25-25 split anywhere, which is why it bothers me a great deal when people throw around purported facts without any basis. Dhananjayan is plain wrong in terms of ownership. I still feel Julian Karikalan’s explanation makes a lot of sense, especially after I read the Indian copyright law.
PS: Wikipedia copy adikkaravennellam oru expert! 🙂
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blurb
March 24, 2017
ini I thought Vaan was good, haunting. Sarattu was fun. It resembles “Dhaavani Potta Deepavali”?
And what Jugini sounds similar to? I know I’ve heard it before. But I cannot pinpoint.
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ThouShaltNot
March 25, 2017
@Honest Raj (formerly ‘V’enkatesh):
That’s a pleasant surprise because Dhananjayan speaking about IPRs is akin to Hitler endorsing world peace. 😛
IPRs = Intellectual Property Right(s)
IPRS = Indian Performing Right Society (http://www.iprs.org/cms/ContactUs/FAQs.aspx)
DJN was not philosophizing about IPRs. He was speaking about IPRS – a body that collects and distributes royalties. Even here, he was not arguing about what should be. He was mentioning what is. Could he be wrong? Possible. But this man plies the circuit to have some credibility on the matter even if he is not the last word. Interesting that you’ve injected Hitler into a discussion about how royalties are distributed. Tempting as it is, I will resist falling into that cheap thrill trap (for now).
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ThouShaltNot
March 25, 2017
@Shankar:
I’m not sure where Dhananjayan is getting his info from. There is no such thing as an IPRS act. IPRS is a society or body (non-profit) setup under section 33 of the Indian Copyright Act of 1957 to monitor copyright. I actually read through the entire Indian copyright act (a simple google search will help you find it).
You are right. IPRS is a body “vested” with the authority to collect and distribute royalties by the Copyright Act. So, DJN was not tight with the terminology (got the act and the body mixed up) and that is reason enough to lampoon him? Thanks for the googling tips, but I did find the site earlier just as you did. I just did not care to nitpick DJN over this.
There is no distribution percentages mentioned anywhere in that act. It’s the same with copyright laws in other parts of the world too. Maybe I’m missing something, but I can’t see the 50-25-25 split anywhere,
Neither can I find it in the act. I doubt the act gets into the nitty gritty of apportionment and might have just left it to the IPRS instead. Problem is IPRS doesn’t publish these formulas either. At least a search of its site turned up empty. That doesn’t mean there isn’t some uniform way they divvy up the total collection. As for DJN, he is at least 25% vindicated. Why? Piraisoodan, who is a lyricist, says he is owed 25% as a lyricist from royalties (in the article BR put out). Why believe his figures? Because, Piraisoodan sits on the Board of Directors of IPRS (he ought to know something about this). Yes, it would be good if IPRS is transparent about the collection and distribution formulas, but maybe they operate like the skull and bones.
Dhananjayan is plain wrong in terms of ownership. I still feel Julian Karikalan’s explanation makes a lot of sense, especially after I read the Indian copyright law.
Maybe. But, I find the IR fan’s “Raja kayya vechcha adhu wrongaa ponadhulla” general approach to dissing anyone who doesn’t toe the Raja line ill-considered.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
March 26, 2017
“IPRS = Indian Performing Right Society”
Yeah, got that eventually.
ThouShaltNot commit logical fallacies
See, I’m not saying that he does not have a right to speak about copyrights/patents, but the fact that the book was awarded a top prize kinda bothers me.
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Madan Mohan
March 26, 2017
I don’t know about exact percentages but lyricist is entitled to a part of the copyright. A song is part melody, part words. Whether one likes melody or words more has no bearing on the issue when we are talking law; the lyricist is also a ‘creator’ of the work as is the composer. I don’t know what the exact position today is w.r.t IR’s songs because it seems he fought a battle with the record labels and won the copyright for most of his songs. But it also belongs to the lyricist and prima facie they would have a case as well in a court of law.
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ThouShaltNot
March 26, 2017
ThouShaltNot commit logical fallacies
Should I now consider Honest Raj (formerly ‘V’enkatesh) to be an oxymoron, given your disingenuous response? You see, I can write cute too.
I was responding to your analogy which implied that DJN has little to no moral standing (not right) to speak about IPRs (which became moot, given he was not bloviating about the need for robustness in copyright protection, but was sharing his knowledge about an org involved in distributing royalties)
See, I’m not saying that he does not have a right to speak about copyrights/patents, but the fact that the book was awarded a top prize kinda bothers me
If it rankles you so much, why not pursue it with DJN, prove to him your charges, have him tender an apology (in private or public) or better yet, have him return the prize. In case it helps, I don’t look up to DJN as a moral exemplar of anything. The reason I posted the clip is because what he said there more or less dovetails with what was posted in an earlier link and as someone mired in the movie business, I think he has at least standing to speak about the cogs in the industry’s wheel. Agree, disagree, right, wrong are separate issues.
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ThouShaltNot
March 26, 2017
When it comes to plagiarism charges, there are many bigwigs with feet of clay. That does not make it right, but perspective is important, particularly when generating outrage. Barack Obama was accused of plagiarizing a speech from Governor Patrick Deval in the 2008 run-up (murky, because they were friends). Joe Biden was accused of plagiarizing a speech from Neil Kinnock (a British MP) while running for President in the eighties. Back in TFI, many MDs, including IR, have been accused of plagiarizing a song or more (the S-G duo and Veda bearing the brunt of such charges).This is all old news. Of course, degree matters and so do their reactions when charges are proven to them. The question is whether they should stand discredited forever subsequent to a finding (not meant as a strawman).
On a somewhat lighter note, speaking of “copyright violations”, how about past accusations of Mu. Ka.’s son (Muthu, who is no more) appropriating the likeness of M.G. R? At least in the U.S., this was not taken lightly. Vanna White (co-host of Wheel of Fortune) sued Samsung for a humorous ad in which (she claimed) a robot was used to appropriate her likeness. I think Samsung was found liable on appeal. Many felt Vanna White went overboard and lacked a sense of humor. Now, watch Mu.Ka.Muthu in a very beautiful song:
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
March 26, 2017
Er, nowhere did I talk about ‘moral standing’; it’s just that I find his speech quite amusing. If he has learned things, good for him. And, thanks for being ‘cute’.
About the book, yes, a pen friend (former student of BR) is already in touch with Danny (that’s how he calls him) and is hopeful about getting things done. Anyways, ‘World Peace Is None of Your Business’.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
March 27, 2017
Big Money Big Money tch tch I’m not surprised at all…
CARTOON : SPB-ILAIYARAJA SPAT
https://thezolazone.wordpress.com
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Shankar
March 27, 2017
@ThouShaltNot, it’s only fair to say that I find the IR hater’s “Raja kayya vechcha ellam wrongaa pogum” general approach to dissing anyone who stands up for Raja line ill-considered. That’s the bandwagon approach!
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Madan
March 28, 2017
On an aside, is this discussion a reflection of the general demographic of this blog’s visitors? It has taken no time for the discussion to turn towards IR, as always, and now we have a top 10 SPB-IR list too courtesy the links posted by sravishanker140. Can you imagine derailing a Rahman thread like this in a place where Rahman fans are active?
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ThouShaltNot
March 28, 2017
More legal opinion surrounding this brouhaha. Here is another interesting take on IR’s stance and its validity overseas by a commenter Achille Forler (3 of his comments)
https://spicyip.com/2017/03/the-ilayaraja-spb-copyright-dispute-why-the-big-fuss.html#comment-73380
https://spicyip.com/2017/03/the-ilayaraja-spb-copyright-dispute-why-the-big-fuss.html#comment-73544
https://spicyip.com/2017/03/the-ilayaraja-spb-copyright-dispute-why-the-big-fuss.html#comment-73545
(Prashant Reddy’s original article is on the same site)
Who is Achille Forler? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4464393.stm)
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
March 28, 2017
Madan : Just like the Mouna Ragam thread was “deraild” into an ‘was IR a copy cat?’ discussion.
Just like an American journalist at the Toronto film festival derailed a Mani Rathnam press conference by extolling the virtues of Masala dosa and idly
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
March 28, 2017
Excuse me I thought I was in Academy of Motion Picture Arts Class.
Madan Sir Present Sir
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Madan Mohan
March 28, 2017
“Just like an American journalist at the Toronto film festival derailed a Mani Rathnam press conference by extolling the virtues of Masala dosa and idly” – ROFL.
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ThouShaltNot
March 28, 2017
Oh, I missed the elephant in the room (at the bottom of that comments section), a more complete article on the issue
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-opinion/my-songs-my-royalties/article17692046.ece
While AF’s estimate of IR’s potential wealth loss over the years is somewhere between $1.2 billion and $300 million, the key takeaway regarding IR’s latest notice are these lines:
“…Having divested himself of his performing right in favour of PRS for music, he had therefore no locus standi to issue such a legal notice…We must conclude that the celebrated composer received bad advice…”
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sai16vicky
May 28, 2019
Ilayaraaja rakes up controversy again
https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/ilaiyaraaja-slams-96-composer-using-his-music-director-says-permission-was-taken-102503
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vijay
December 2, 2021
“Some hearsay. I mean, if you could just hear the story about what happened with Kutrame Dhandanai”
BR, regarding this..Latest I hear is that IR has filed a complaint against Mani’s crew for unceremoniously dumping him from Kadaisi Vivasaayi which has VJS as well and replacing him with Santhosh.. Wonder what made Manikandan continue to work with IR if he had issues earlier in Kutrame thandanai. Any inputs on this from your sources? I am not shocked at this development but a little surprised.
https://www.indiaglitz.com/kadaisi-vivasayi-update-ilayaraja-complaint-against-manikandan-vijay-sethupathi-santhosh-narayanan-tamil-news-302291
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