A piece about things that still do not have a google address, such as an obscure rendition of O Butterfly. Seemed apt to put this up now, given the Padma Vibhushan for Ilayaraja (though this isn’t really about him).
Ilayaraja fans and maybe Vikram fans as well would be familiar with the 1991 hit song O Butterfly from the film Meera. Unusually, for an Ilayaraja song, it has a distinct chorus made up of long sustained notes sung solo by either S P Balasubramaniam or Asha Bhonsle depending on the iteration. That as well as its simultaneously mesmerising, awe-inspiring, vulnerable and delicate arrangements have long since made the track one of the ‘classics’.
However…in the early 90s, this butterfly passed me by. With so many songs, so many soundtracks tumbling out in a breathless rush, it was hard to keep track. That we lived far away from Tamil Nadu didn’t help. So…my introduction to this uber-romantic duet was on the TV programme Sapthaswarangal! Yeah, remember that one?
We, we here being my family, faithfully tuned into the A V Ramanan hosted singing contest up until the early noughties. One such episode was being adjudged by Karthik Raja (I think and I am not very sure) and was a ‘finals’ of some sort.
One of the contestants was a lady named Manju Jayaram. She delivered a solid rendition of Enna Enna Varthaigalo, evoking a dreamy quality somehow different from the original. In the next round, she introduced us to this thingy called O Butterfly. Her voice, as I recall it, was soft and light and verily floated like a butterfly through an elegant and soulful rendition, steering clear of any undue ostentation. I can’t say if we were more in awe of the song or the singing. To say we were captivated barely does justice to our reaction.
Mr Ramanan himself seemed to have a soft corner for another contestant whom we were not so impressed by. We were anxious that he should not sway the judge’s opinion in her favour, certain as we were that Manju Jayaram deserved to win. Fortunately, justice prevailed and our apprehensions amounted to a tempest in a teapot. Manju Jayaram won, yay!
And…that was it. We never heard about her again. It would be a few more years before we finally heard O Butterfly and then only thanks to the advent of online jukeboxes. We found the song on raga.com and had to first download Real Player to listen to the track. Sounds like a piece of cake now but it was incredibly painful even with what passed for broadband in those days.
We were both thrilled and apprehensive about the prospect of listening to the real butterfly. Would it grind MJ’s rendition to dust or would it pale in comparison? Our apprehensions grew when we learnt that it was really a duet with Asha Bhonsle sharing duties with S P Balasubramaniam. There’s no doubting Asha Bhonsle’s calibre and I wore out a tape of songs sung by Asha Bhonsle for O P Nayyar back in school. But in 1991, she wasn’t exactly a spring chicken and not perhaps the right fit for what we had imagined to be a youthful romantic number.
Our apprehensions were sadly justified. There is a particular English expression for a piece of singing that isn’t too kind to the ears and out of courtesy I shall refrain from using it. On the other hand, the music in the original track scaled heights beyond the grasp of our collective imagination. It was not long before O Butterfly became a perennial favourite, across composers, across genres, for me.
The question of what happened to MJ remained and remains to this day. If nothing else, we hoped at least a youtube clip of that rendition would surface. But nobody seems to have thought of recording it; maybe anybody else who liked it was also too enthralled by the singing to remember to record! There are then some things that even Google can’t buy, such as a Manju Jayaram sapthaswarangal performance.
I wonder what it would be like if it happened to surface again. Would it rise up to the lofty pedestal on which I have placed it in my imagination? I have burnt my fingers previously.
In the late 90s, a singer named Bela Shende won the Sa Re Ga Ma Pa mega finals and duly received blessings and best wishes from O P Nayyar, Kalyanji Anandji, Khaiyyam, Parveen Sultana among others (hopefully enough expert testimony to cover my behind). So, when years later, I heard Vaanam Mella, I found it very underwhelming. Initially, I wondered what had happened to her.
And then, I found a clip of her performance of Jo Wada Kiya on Sa Re Ga Ma Pa and went, “Idhudhaana?” I had to admit that in fact the singer I heard on Vaanam Mella was better so nothing really had happened except maybe too much wax in my ears.
What will it be with Manju Jayaram’s Butterfly? Case of too much wax or a blissful trip down memory lane? I don’t know. But I would really like to know if there was at least somebody else who had heard it too and had a similar reaction so that I will have company if and when I am hanged for disastrous musical (mis)judgment.
(Madan Mohan, recreational tennis hack in the early morning, chartered accountant by day and wannabe writer by night)
Rahini David
January 27, 2018
This is THE BEST READER’S WRITE IN ever.
Will rave more about this on Monday. Bye for now.
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Madan
January 27, 2018
Thanks so much for publishing this, BR. And to pre-empt the unlikely event that any Bela Shende fans bay for my blood, let me say that I do like her singing in Marathi songs…very much so. But Vannam Mella…nah!
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MANK
January 27, 2018
Madans musings on music is always interesting. I don’t remember this butterfly song at all. I have seen this film a long time ago and it was very disappointing film and never gone back to it, so guess the music got buried with it. And again it was a most productive period of ilayaraja – just before the emergence of Rahman- when he was giving one superhit album after another, so the attention strayed more towards them. So this piece inspired me to search and listen to this song – and other songs of this film – and yes it’s certainly a very beautiful composition
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Madan
January 27, 2018
Thanks MANK. Exactly, just got buried when the film didn’t do well. Didn’t help that the music of Dhalapathi or Chinna Thambi were so popular at that time. I would really like to hear from the older Raja fans as to how many of them remembered listening to O Butterfly in 1991. Somebody would have had to have heard it for Manju Jayaram to have rendered it on a show and yet I don’t even remember watching it ever on Sun TV at that time. In the days since, it has certainly gained a following but as I see now, even you haven’t heard about it before.
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Madan
January 27, 2018
Thanks Rahini. Waiting for the long version. 🙂
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Viswanathan C
January 27, 2018
@Madan, I watched the movie at Anand theatre. It was disappointing.
I remember thinking that Vikram was the producer’s son-he was, to say the least, underwhelming.
If I remember correctly, this film was directed by P.C. Sreeram and I remember seeing advertisements in THE HINDU promoting the heroine (can’t remember exactly, there was play with the words Ice and Aishwariya (Lakshmi’s daughter) more than anyone else.
Coming to the song, it did not receive much airplay but I remember recording this song for my collection (cassette). So, did many of my friends. Honestly, I do not like the song much now.
Having said that there was song sung by Subha (Mallgudi?) in the movie which was very popular. PC Sreeram was in his elements shooting in the glow of lamps and lights inside a bus. (Speaking from memory here, so I might be wrong)
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Vivek narain
January 27, 2018
What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the master calls a butterfly~Richard Bach. Trapped for long as a worm, the butterfly soars into the sky defying the calls of beautiful flowers, which are still tethered to the terra firma, but bulbul dallies with them. Not long ago the same butterfly as a worm was teaching wisdom to Alice while smoking hookah.
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shaviswa
January 27, 2018
The Butterfly song was a personal favourite for me right from when it was released. I had the song on one of my Raja collection cassettes and used to listen to this song almost everyday. My hostel mates too loved this song.
I remember playing that song to my NI and Bengali friends boasting of what a great MD Raja is and how the rest of India has not enjoyed his music.
On Asha – I felt she sang well but for her Tamil pronunciation (which many of my friends actually found cute). SPB of course aced this song
I am surprised to know that people missed this song back then. Thought it was a raging hit. I saw the film only for this song and was so disappointed. The film was an absolute dud.
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brangan
January 27, 2018
shaviswa: On Asha – I felt she sang well…
By the time Raja used Lata and Asha, they were well past their prime and they butchered his songs. Imagine what a good younger voice could have done with Pazhaya vilangu or Valayosai or Aaraaro aaraaro… Imagine if 60s-70s Lata/Asha had been available for him to work with…
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Madan
January 27, 2018
“Imagine what a good younger voice could have done with Pazhaya vilangu or Valayosai or Aaraaro aaraaro” – At least on Pazha Vilangu, she got the attitude right. Yeah, still, well past it.
@shaviswa: The thing is I was comparing Asha’s rendition to that of Manju Jayaram, which to my mind was more ethereal. I have no way of verifying my long held impression though. 😀 I thought Chitra got closer to the spirit of the song in the Telugu version. Yeah, weird, huh. Chitra for the Telugu version, so Raja might as well have used her for the Tamil one too.
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Madan
January 27, 2018
“Having said that there was song sung by Subha (Mallgudi?) in the movie which was very popular. ” – She doesn’t have a song in this film. Either, you are referring to Lovunna Lovuthan by Minmini or the very Western Kadhal Paatu Dhan Paadi Po from Nadodi Thendral.
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shaviswa
January 27, 2018
Definitely. Never liked Lata’s voice in Valaiyosai.
One reason I felt Raja used them in the late 80s or 90s was a craving for acceptance…..initially he wanted that from the Carnatic music community and later from a pan Indian film music community.
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Madan
January 27, 2018
@shaviswa: Have heard it was Raja’s friend and admirer R D Burman who persuaded him to use both Mangeshkar sisters for his songs and of course Raja was already in awe of them. I do love Asha’s singing on Adhikalai Neram Kanavil Unnai Parthen. Asha aged a bit better than Lata and was closer to her prime in the 80s.
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KayKay
January 27, 2018
Bravo! Another short and superlative piece that sets my mind on a wistful trek down Nostalgia Lane. To the days when owning a copy of a song meant you WORKED for it, assuming you didn’t have deep enough pockets to buy the soundtrack cassette. Keeping a cassette on standby in your player and waiting for days for your fav track to play on radio.I live in Malaysia where we had, in those days, exactly (count ’em,folks) ONE station playing Tamil songs. If you were lucky, your sharp ears would pick out the DJ announcing THAT song then a mad dash to the player and pressing the record button would ensure you had a FULL version of it, which you then use to subsequently wear out the rewind button, listening to it over and over again.
Today? Catch a strain of gorgeous ear-candy from anywhere, open Shazam on your smart phone, which identifies the song, singer, album and year of production, where you access it via Spotify, then save it to your personal playlist and voila! you’re free to de-construct the tune on your next jog.
As for searching in vain to have a copy of another interpretation of the song, via talent or variety shows in the pre-YouTube era? I feel your pain bro.
I recall, somewhere in the foggy regions of my memory, sometime in my mid-teens, my first intro to SPB’s catchy track from Oru Thalai Raagam, Vaasamilla Malar Idhu. It was an acoustic version rendered by one Dr. Vasanthan in one of those music shows whose name I can no longer recall. It subsequently led me to the original, which I still enjoy to this day. But that initial, stripped down version sung with just a guitar? Lost to the mists of time.
BTW, O Butterfly is a lovely number and it was pretty popular. The soundtrack as a whole was pretty good too.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
January 27, 2018
Madan : Roth really Rocks . Really enjoyed reading this breezy piece and what a topic and connection ! You’ve really internalized Chaos theory and the Butterfly effect. Te Saluto !
Mank : Madan’s Musings on Music (Kalaignar style)
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
January 27, 2018
Oh and Madan – It appears you have passed the CA Final. (Chartered Accountant by day). If the answer is “yes” then my Hearty Congratulations !
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Madan
January 27, 2018
“As for searching in vain to have a copy of another interpretation of the song, via talent or variety shows in the pre-YouTube era? I feel your pain bro.” – Quite, quite. I would love to hear that Vasanthan rendition too. On the subject of recording, back in 1998 when Tendulkar launched Operation Desert Storm on Australia, I missed all the action because our cable operator was giving us only Star Sports and not ESPN. But the twin centuries became such a rage that Star Sports did a Great Innings series showing highlights of both those knocks as well as a century in Benoni against Zimbabwe as a bonus time filler. We recorded it on videotape for posterity and when my Chitappa happened to come over around that time, we watched the recording again with him. Who knew then that VCRs were going to become extinct and that all this footage and much, much more would be available at the click of a mouse on youtube (or just a touch on the smartphone, as applicable)?
By the way, when are we reading YOUR contribution to Readers Write In. Your comment here alone has left my write up in the dust, can hardly imagine how a Kay Kay full course would read.
@sravishanker140: Roth truly did rock, wonderful guitarist he was. Scorpions were no longer the same after he left.
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Vidhya M
January 27, 2018
This piece evokes so many memories…
Meera was originally titled Love 90 and was supposed to come close on the heels of Idhayathai Thirudadhe in the soft-romance genre, with adhey PC Sreeram and Ilayaraja combo. The song album released much earlier and was a smash hit. Especially the Butterfly song – who’s USP was touted to be Asha Bhonsle. However it was SPB who aced the song and he even ranked it his most favourite in one of his interviews.
Lovvuna lovvu mannena stovvu became popular for its asinine lyrics and picturization similar to Regal sottu neelam doi ad (which was also shot by PC Sreeram I guess)
Aishwarya who was to be showcased as this classy girl in this film, went on to do Rasukutty just before this came out and her image went kaput (to be followed with Orakka kathuthu kozhi in Ejaman).
How do I remember all this – coz I had got the audio cassette when it was released, kept singing Oh Butterly all through 1991-92 and bugged my dad into taking me for this FDFS, only to be bored to death and disillusioned. (It had all genres Romance, screwball comedy, thriller….if I remember right)
Ilayaraja deserves his Padma Vibushan simply for giving his heart and soul even for such yeno-thaano movies!!
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Vidhya M
January 27, 2018
About Asha and Latha – those were the days when the audio tapes would camouflage all pitch, rhythm and tone issues with its mono (or even stereo in bad stereo sets) sounds.
Unlike now, our earlier sources were Vividbharathi or Oliyum Oliyum where we were ok with any kind of output, as it was nevertheless a fascinating experience nevermind its quality.
So it was all good then. (But somehow I feel that MSV’ / Ramamurthy’s compositions still sound impeccable – Paartha nyabagam illayo still sounded pitch perfect when I heard it from Wynk music whereas Nilaave vaa had some lag. Not sure if am right or aurally challenged)
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Madan
January 27, 2018
Vidhya: Thanks for sharing. True, IR has given great music to films that did not deserve it and far too many times. If you only heard the title score of Idhayam, you could be forgiven for expecting a masterpiece. Alas! When asked in the Ilayaraja Kelungal series if there was something he disliked about his work, he said, “Indha padhathukellam music poda vendrake endral” :D.
I don’t think Asha has any major pitch issues (or even minor for that matter) on this recording. Lata on songs like Tujhe Dekha Toh Yeh Jaana Sanam/Jiya Jale is sheer kolaveri for me, especially in light of what she was capable of even up to the 70s. What I did not like about Asha’s O Butterfly rendition is it was heavy and laboured. And too much vibrato on the sustain notes (Thiru Naal Varumo in the second charanam is painful); this song needed a more restrained vibrato to accentuate its lightness. I don’t hear any lag on Nilave Vaa but then with audiotape it all depends on the one you get to lay your hands on. Not at all predictable the way it is with high bit rate digital audio where 320 kbps means 320 kbps. I would rate Raja’s recordings as better than MSV/TKR but the latter worked with fewer layers and sometimes Raja’s recordings can just feel too dense because you need really good recording facilities to do justice to it which is not available in India. This a musician friend of mine who plays rock but is a huge fan of Raja conveyed to me and I don’t doubt his judgment on this. IIRC Raja’s sound engineer Thenarasu said Dhalapathi was one of the first 16 track recordings in Tamil music and 16 track is nothing compared to Western standards. For that, the sound they got especially for Rakkamma and Sundari Kannal is fantastic.
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Anu Warrier
January 27, 2018
I haven’t heard this song, Madan, but your piece brought out the nostalgia of listening to songs during a certain period. Thank you for that. 🙂
Between your piece and KayKay’s comment, I think we’ve covered the full range of that experience that only a certain generation will remember.
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Jayram
January 27, 2018
Great write-up Madan!
More than the Mangeshkar sisters, I really wish Raja worked with Kishore da. The combination would have been electrifying. In my mind, I can hear Kishore acing Ae Zindagi Gale Laga Le and the Telugu version of Khaike Paan Banaraswala (NTR’s Yugandhar) and singing for Sivaji, Rajni and Kamal! What a missed opportunity for both and for us!
Do we know if RD Burman introduced Raja to Kishore? Did Kishore ever acknowledge Raja?
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Ashwin
January 27, 2018
This post took me back in memory lane. Was in mid school and me and my elder brother had this cassette playing on loop on an Akai tape recorder that my aunt had brought in from Dubai. I had always thought that it was Chitra singing the song as even back then we used to make fun of how the female playback lead was mispronouncing and stressing too much on the “tter” in butterfly while SPB was subtle in pronouncing the word 🙂 Yes, there was some excitement with the new heroine ICEwarya and her lip kiss scene with Vikram was spoken in hushed voices in classrooms. The bus song was “pudhu roatilladha oyya”
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Madan
January 27, 2018
Correction: In fact Dhalapathi recording was 8 track. For context, Dark Side of the Moon was done on 16 track back in 1973!
Jayram: I gather from wiki that Kishore Kumar never sang Tamil songs, period. I would have loved to hear Kishore with Raja’s voice too. Some of SPB’s boisterous, uptempo songs would fit Kishore’s voice as well. It is not known whether RD did attempt to get the duo working together. Unlikely because it was in the mid 80s that the Mangeshkar sisters finally began singing for Raja. By then Kishore’s health was failing and he struggled through Sagar Kinare. Kishore did sing Neele Neele Ambar very well but the song treatment itself was very plain, completely lacking in the nuances of the original which gave SPB ample width to weave his magic.
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Madan
January 27, 2018
Anu Warrier: Thanks and it was indeed my aim to capture an experience that is familiar from the pre-internet or rather pre-Google era. When this Saptaswarangal episode I spoke of came along, we already had a Pentium 100 PC with Windows 95, CD Rom and dial up internet. But the technology that would change the way we consume art forever was yet to be unleashed. I don’t think it is a coincidence that it is possible for me to attach an enigma, a mystique (however that it may well be misplaced) to a piece of singing from that period because it was more elusive then and therefore more memorable when you did come across something like that.
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Ashwin
January 27, 2018
And the movie was actually directed by PC Sriram which I learnt a few year ago. The movie was a complete mess. All I remember are the songs (audio) and the over the top climax scene with Vikhram driving some sort of a race car!
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Anuja Chandramouli
January 27, 2018
Nice one Madan! It’s weird but I somehow love this song despite hating Asha Bhosle’s rendition. Agree wholeheartedly with BR’s comment regarding this. Aararo from Anand makes me wanna kill myself and the less said about Bhavatharini the better. Can you imagine what IR could have done with today’s technology and the range of talent available today?
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Honest Raj
January 27, 2018
Thanks for bringing up some wonderful memories, Madan. If my memory serves me right, Sapthaswarangal launched the film career of Chinmayi.
I rediscovered the film four years ago but somehow missed “Pazhaya Vilangu”. Seems it was way out of her comfort zone. Maybe, age had caught up with her? As for her Tamil pronunciation, I thought “Saathu Nada Saathu” suffered big time.
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Honest Raj
January 27, 2018
“Lovvuna lovvu” has the funniest lyrics for a Tamil song – had earlier thought Gangai Amaran was the lyricist.
Looks like the film had another “original” title as well:
http://cameraworking.raqsmediacollective.net/pdf/interviews/venu.PDF#page=26
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Ravi K
January 28, 2018
Bela Shende’s “Mann Mohana” from Jodha Akbar is mesmerising.
Here is a track from the Tamil-dubbed version of “Udan Khatola,” sung by Lata Mangeshkar. Her pronunciation here is not perfect, but tolerable. For some reason I find that in past decades North Indian singers singing in South Indian languages sounded better than now. Maybe more attention was paid to getting pronunciations correct?
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Vivek narain
January 28, 2018
And there already was that, ‘titli udi ud jo chali’. Sharda at her best, defying the mangeshkar sisters. Shanker Jaikishen the sensational duo that defined the power of music as never before or after in the annals of Indian film industry. Vyjayanthymala the most ravishing beauty of all times, setting afire the silver screen.
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Shankar
January 28, 2018
Madan, superb write-up. I can totally relate to what you say here. I have similar thoughts with couple films. Back in the 1985/86 period, there were two films shown on DD, Mahesh Bhatt’s Janam and Basu Chatterjee’s Ek Ruka Hua Faisla (remake of 12 Angry Men). Both were, if I recall, made for TV movies. And at the impressionable age I was, I loved them both. I desperately wanted Janam to be the turning point of Kumar Gaurav’s floundering career (don’t ask me why) and Shernaz Patel seemed like a fairy! Similarly, ERHF captured me with its taut screenplay and unrelenting focus, aided by a stellar cast. I have never been able to find either film, on YouTube or elsewhere. But I have the same thoughts….will they hold up to the pedestal I’ve put them on?
Coming to Meera, somehow I’ve never been a big fan of the album nor the butterfly song. That impression has stayed from the first listen…maybe I should go back to it to see, if that holds?! 😄
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Tambi Dude
January 28, 2018
“IIRC Raja’s sound engineer Thenarasu said Dhalapathi was one of the first 16 track recordings in Tamil music and 16 track is nothing compared to Western standards. For that, the sound they got especially for Rakkamma and Sundari Kannal is fantastic.”
Those songs were recorded in R D Burman’s studio in Mumbai using most of his musicians. Apparently when they saw the notes of Sundari Kannal they were quite stunned by the complexity.
Sound engineering was IR’s weakest link. OTOH RDB’s sound engineering, even by today’s standards sounds pretty good.
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Tambi Dude
January 28, 2018
“Do we know if RD Burman introduced Raja to Kishore? Did Kishore ever acknowledge Raja?”
I doubt it. Trouble is, after his heart-attack in 1980, KK was never the same and lost the zip in his voice.
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Tambi Dude
January 28, 2018
Correction to my previous post. It was in reference to “The combination would have been electrifying. “
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Madan
January 28, 2018
Ashwin: I haven’t even watched the film and never felt the slightest inclination too. Yes, agreed, Asha bites on the butterfly too much, SP’s pronounciation was much better.
Anuja: “Can you imagine what IR could have done with today’s technology and the range of talent available today?” – Well, he did get to do NEPV and Megha with the kind of musicians and recording tech he wanted. The singing talent? No, I don’t think it’s as good as what it used to be, at least not for his type of music. If he started writing more English songs like the one he did for Love and Love Only, he may get to work with more Western singers where there is still good talent (and again, not quite what it used to be in the more melodic genres).
Shankar: Given that they are both great directors, hopefully, yes, they will rise up to the pedestal of your imagination. Romanticizing a semi professional singer’s rendition is a much more fraught endeavour. 😀
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Madan
January 28, 2018
Ravi K: Listening to the Tamil version and yes her pronunciation is flawless. I think there was much more importance given to the lyrics in the 50s and 60s and composers like Naushad too a lot of time to work with a few films, wanting to get exactly what they wanted. The importance of such aesthetic aspects went down first in the 70s and it continued apace with IR/ARR. It’s probably a by product of the music getting more raunchy and vigorous and less ‘classical’. I don’t only mean classical in the Indian classical music sense but an adherence to traditional norms.
I do like Man Mohana but here I will have to put in perspective exactly how lofty a pedestal we put Bela Shende on and it’s not her fault at all. 😀 My father was so impressed by her singing in Sa Re Ga Ma Pa that he hailed her as the successor to Lata and as a then school going teen, I was bound to be influenced by his judgment. I will just post here the Sa Re Ga Ma clip I referred to in my write up:
It is adequate but lacking in expression and she’s not really fetching that high note the way Lata is. It is basically nowhere near that good. She never was THAT good though she is a good singer. That was just a mirage, an illusion. To think that I used to feel sad that Bela Shende wasn’t getting songs while Shreya Ghoshal had established herself in very short order. Since then, I have twice watched Shreya Ghoshal live, heard her own Sa Re Ga Ma Pa performances in a fresh light and then of course this here clip and have to say there is no doubt at least in my mind who is the better singer. Not that the industry doesn’t sometimes push less deserving singers at the expense of better ones but this is not that sort of case.
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Madan
January 28, 2018
Tambi Dude: RD’s recordings do sound great for their time but he also never did such a complex and multi layered arrangement as Sundari Kannal so it’s tough to evaluate. When RD said IR was way ahead of his time, he was right in more ways than one. Our equipment and understanding of Western music was simply not commensurate to IR’s ambitions. He had to make do with what he had.
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Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan
January 28, 2018
The digitally remastered version of this lovely song!
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GODZ
January 28, 2018
After straining my memory, TV rights for this movie was bought by Raj TV. So This song used to have lot of Air time in Raj TV only and The movie was also repeated many times. This was when they launched Raj TV and before they becoming 24 X 7. I still remember this song along with “Konjam nilavu” for their unique sounds and picturizations.
But Madan Thanks for a completely unique post. You indeed bought attention to a rare topic in tamil music which is Covers(I am not sure if its rendition or cover. But i think it can be called as cover. Correct me if i am wrong) . Even in this you tube era, tamil Covers dont get much attention which i am not sure why. People used to watch covers only in programs like super singer etc. But when it comes to actual song, the prefer to hear the original artist than covers. Even covers by Popular artist are not much sought out here.IT could be either the original is far better or the voices may be too modern to match the voices of those times.
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Madan
January 28, 2018
Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan: Thanks for posting that. MAHA rocks!
GODZ: Thanks for the comment and bringing up an interesting dimension I didn’t think about at all while writing this one! Yes, we still mainly consume covers by way of music show performances (as we did at the time). How would I have reacted if I had heard O Butterfly the original first? Would I have still fallen head over heels in love with MJ’s interpretation? Hard to tell; THAT performance IS kind of the original one for me because that’s how I first heard it. We don’t engage with covers outside the limited context of talent shows and one reason may lie in what you have described here:
“IT could be either the original is far better or the voices may be too modern to match the voices of those times”
You are describing here the vocal aspect of the song which is no doubt important. But what truly makes a cover interesting is the arrangement. By tweaking or even overhauling the arrangements, the artist who is covering the original can bring to light an entirely different shade of emotion from the original. The Carpenters were a bestselling act in the US and much of the world through the 70s and they mainly did covers (did have some good originals like Goodbye to Love/I Need to Be in Love). But they just didn’t re-perform the song but added a Carpenters touch to everything they covered which became a signature style in its own right. So…they built in drama and mischief into the staid Close To You and they toned down the idiosyncrasy of Leon Russell and gave a more accessible yet soulful This Masquerade to the audience.
It is ironic that I have to say this in a topic loosely about Ilayaraja who was and is the master of arrangements. You can see an example of this in the songs of Mella Thirandhadhu Kadhavu. The tunes were composed by MSV but they still sound like Ilayaraja songs because the arrangements completely alter how we react to them. A Thedum Kan Paarvai wouldn’t have had that sense of suspense simmering without boiling over while threatening to, in the hands of MSV, much as I do respect his greatness. But after so many years of Raja and even Rahman who also understands the role of arrangements very well, the melody inclination hardwired into our system still asserts itself 🙂 and this, I suspect, gets in the way of appreciating covers. This also reduces most covers that are performed/recorded to a re-performance rather than re-imagination of the song. I heard Prasanna’s cover of Paatu Enge with a lot of anticipation and was disappointed when he stuck to a note for note rendition of it with only a different tempo. Why do that…and in a jazz setting? Maybe he just didn’t feel the audience would receive a bold interpretation well and played it safe.
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Anu Warrier
January 28, 2018
@Madan – I don’t think it is a coincidence that it is possible for me to attach an enigma, a mystique (however that it may well be misplaced) to a piece of singing from that period because it was more elusive then and therefore more memorable when you did come across something like that.
So true. While I think the way we consume art has changed drastically – even more so in the last ten years than ever before – and I remain thankful to YouTube for introducing me to so many songs/films I wouldn’t otherwise have heard again let alone known of, and all the good things that technology has allowed artistes to do in terms of collaboration, sometimes I think I find the soul missing. When you look at the old pictures/videos of say, Rafi or Asha or Mannada or Lata rehearsing, and you see the music director, the lyricist, the musicians all completely involved in creating that music, there’s a difference.
Today, ARR composes in Madras, Gulzar writes in Bombay, the singers singing the duet sing their own lines at separate times in separate studios, and everything is layered using the computer. And somehow, as Gulzar once said in an interview, the soul of music is lost. (And it’s not that there isn’t good music coming out now, but there’s a difference, say, between using real instruments and using a digital keyboard.)
Back in the dark ages, when I interviewed Kumar Sanu, he told me with pride that he had recorded ‘X’ number of songs in one day. Whereas Rafisaab, he said, probably recorded one song over three days. Besides, he noted, it was said that both Rafi and Lata knew the lyrics of every single song they sang by rote, whereas he, busy as he was, didn’t remember even one song completely. If there ever had been a head-to-desk moment, it was that.
Shankar, ask and ye shall receive. 🙂 Like you, I too wished that Janam would provide a resurgence to Kumar Gaurav’s career. And Ek Ruka Hua Faisla did stand the test of time – for me, at least.
Janam
Ek Ruka Hua Faisla
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therag
January 28, 2018
Nice Post. And I agree that poor sound quality is part of the charm. When it comes to music you heard in your childhood, you want it to be exactly the way it was when you listened to it over a muffled radio, or cassette. The version of “Paartha Vizhi Paartha Padi” that I adore is a youtube version with average audio quality at best. But I just cannot listen to a cleaner version because I want it to sound the way it did when I watched the movie on my CRT TV years back. And the YouTube version is the closest.
That is why Vinyl has made a comeback in recent years. It recreates the imperfections that were common in music records a few decades back. And the fact that you can collect records and record art like before.
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private cips
January 29, 2018
Yesss… Thanks for bringing this movie. I was 15 when the movie released and we were crazy for the Lovvunnaa Lovvu song then, before the release 🙂 I saw the movie in “cable tv” and I loved the “Butterfly” song more than the others. I enjoyed the climax a lot more than the rest of the movie, where the hero kills the many (7?) villains in inventive ways.Another tidbit – Did anybody mention Sharath Kumar was the main villain in the movie?
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Tambi Dude
January 29, 2018
Wow. The digitally mastered version of Butterfly sounds so much better.
Madan: Not disagreeing with IR’s vastly superior arrangement, but the fact was that the sound engineers of IR were sleeping in their job. Or he was careless.
A friend of mine , who is into music , once told me that in some of his worst recorded song, one can even hear tic tic sound of Metronome. Oops. Thats like watching the shadows of the camera crew in the movie.
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brangan
January 29, 2018
therag: I agree. Some of the digital clean-up jobs make the sounds so sharp and over-refined that it’s painful. I prefer the vinyl sound too.
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Madan
January 29, 2018
@Anu Warrier: Thanks for sharing that about Kumar Sanu. I will have a laugh about it and snap outta Monday blues. 🙂 Yeah, clearly, quantity had started taking precedence over quality. Um, I don’t wanna sound like I am dissing Raja but sometimes I wish he too had taken more time to let the singers deliver. I have heard that Shankar of SJ would call Mukesh over in the morning when he would struggle but through the day as he practiced, his voice would open up and by evening the majestic baritone was ready to soar through the recording. But Raja’s philosophy has always been that his music is good enough. And it is, 99% of the time. And his pace of operating probably have the proceedings a spontaneity which comes through on the recording too.
And I agree too that with everyone working on remote, you can no longer get the same connection between artists. Renaissance got Ian Anderson and Jon Wetton to guest on Symphony of Light but to what avail? They fared better when they were one band working together on their songs in the 70s. A rare one like Ik Kudi or Sara Bareilles’ rendition of Smile at the Emmy’s slip through with some of the soul of the earlier recordings, but by and large, it’s more about cooleth now.
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Madan
January 29, 2018
therag/BR: I could never afford LPs back in the day but even audiotape sounds warmer than CD/digital files because the sounds blend instead of being separated. Just as they would in a live performance; you hear one sound live, not separate tracks. That’s why separation sounds artificial even if it quenches our inner geek’s need to clearly make out every layer.
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e,hari
January 29, 2018
Madan – awesome article!. This particular song was popular and to some extent accessible during that time. This article reminded me of the days when I used to stand in front of audio shops to listen late 70s and early 80s IR and other songs at the expense of going late to school and faced the wrath of the teacher few times.
One music piece which I am still searching for with no luck – In AIR during 80’s they used to play the instrumental (Guitar) version of the song – Iravakkum Pagalakkum ini endha velai ( Enga thangaraja – Music KVM), as the filler between programs. For some reason, that sound had stuck in my mind still and would love to see if it holds good after all these years. I could not bear the actual song beyond the first interlude,
There are bunch of non IR songs in 80s which thanks to Youtube I could find it after all these years of searching and thankfully hold it together still – adhi kalayali Pani Katgrugal ( Kalyana Kalam – SG), paal nilavu kainthathe ( SG), Lakshimi Vandhal (SG) – these songs were so rare to find opportunities to listen those days but still stuck in the mind. On the other hand most of the new songs, even if you listen umpteen no of times in a loop, it is mostly a blur next day.
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Madan
January 29, 2018
@Tambidude: I can believe that, especially when Thenarasu says Raja taught him sound engineering. Raja is great but he is not a sound engineer. He can only guide the engineers as to what he WANTS on the recording. And of course use his experience too but he’s not specialised in it.
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Gayathri Arun
January 29, 2018
I was in my teens. This song was quite popular with youngsters back then. Vikram was his charming self, not a big hero, but an upcoming heartthrob. And the filming of the song (PC Sreeram?) was dreamy kind of romance. I guess you have to be in your prime of youth to remember these kinds of songs. It is an instant hit among our friends. Don’t remember any other songs or the story. But O Butterfly is my eternal favorite
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Madan
January 29, 2018
@ehari: My generation missed that experience – of checking out songs at the tea kadai. In my time, songs were being regularly played on TV and I remembered them without even much repetition. For the rest, there was high speed dubbing. The 90s was an interesting time; we were familiar with the old tech like tape recorder and typewriter but also saw the new tech emerge.
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Honest Raj
January 29, 2018
private cips: Agree. The movie was a dud, but the action sequences towards the climax were actually well shot end edited.
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Shankar
January 29, 2018
@AnuWarrier, I owe you a chai….or two! Thanks so much! 😄
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Naveen
January 29, 2018
BR, though IR missed Mangeshkar sisters intheir prime, he got Shreya Ghoshal. not only IR, she seems to be the fav of all Tamil music composers. and i do not find any fault with her Tamil in any of the songs.
SPB’s voice is like butter, in this song. i think it was PC Sriram’s production too, with Vikram as first time hero. Aishwrya’s first movie as well. the music sounds so dreamy and extra terrestrial. IR is beyond all awards.
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Anu Warrier
January 29, 2018
@Shankar – definitely! Say when. 🙂
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shaviswa
January 29, 2018
Not sure what made PC Sriram to cast Iswarya. She had already acted in a few Tamil movies and was a dud actress. I remember a lot of fun being made about her film Marikozhunthu where she acted with Ramesh Arvind. She was probably 6 feet tall to Ramesh Arvind’s 5 feet and they looked such an odd pair.
I remember seeing this movie screened to empty halls. The only thing that attracted me to the film was the Butterfly song that I wanted to see on the big screen – PC Sriram’s cinematography cannot be seen on regular TV at home 🙂
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Krish
January 30, 2018
Lovely writeup Madan. Saptaswaranagal and later SPB’s show on Jaya TV and the early years of super singer were all staples at my house. There have been renditions of songs which I first heard on these shows that have stuck with me than the originals did. One example is Thesulavathe Then Malarale… Years later I heard the original on youtube and it was underwhelming.
Talking about digital clean up of old songs versus vinyls, I remember Quentin Tarantino in an interview saying that when he used old tracks for his movies he wanted it sound exactly the way he heard them from a record player. So he recorded them from a vinyl. If you listen to the soundtrack of Django Unchained, you can hear the initial static and the needle hitting the record at quite a few places.
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Madan
January 30, 2018
@ Naveen At times I have issues with Shreya Ghoshal’s pronunciation but compared to SPB’s singing on Mujhe Milne Ki Tamanna Hai :D, it’s just a minor quibble. Another thing is Shreya Ghoshal works hard to capture the nuances of Tamil singing (which aren’t limited only to pronunciation). I may be stereotyping but female singers seem to be more conscientious about these aspects. Or maybe the composers be didn’t want SP/Udit to change their style when they sang in other languages. I don’t like Yaar Bina Chain Kahan Re but S Janaki’s singing is perfect on that song.
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Madan
January 30, 2018
@ Krish We didn’t be watch the SPB hosted show regularly but Ragini’s performance of Madathile in that show was memorable indeed.
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Naveen
January 30, 2018
@Madan, do you like Shreya’s Ninaithu Ninaithu Parthal from 7G Rainbow Colony. i thought she made the song extaordinary, in Tamil as well as Telugu. even in her very first Tamil song, “Chellakutti Ammukutti…” for KarthikRaja, there were almost no slips from a diction point of view. i like SPB more in Ek Dujhe Ke Liye than the Sooraj Badjatiya ones he sang for. well, he is a god in tamil , telugu and kannada. no need to prove in hindi.
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Madan
January 30, 2018
@Naveen I just heard it. I didn’t remember this version; the male version of course was a big hit. I wouldn’t say her pronunciation is perfect here either, no double la in tholil/kangal for example. But the effect shouldn’t be awkward and in her case, it’s very pleasant so it doesn’t matter.
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shaviswa
January 30, 2018
@Madan Ragini impressed with both Thesulavudhey and Madhathile. But lost all the credits she earned with these with her performance in Super Singer later. She continued to return with wild card much to many viewers consternation.
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Tambi Dude
January 30, 2018
“On the other hand most of the new songs, even if you listen umpteen no of times in a loop, it is mostly a blur next day.”
ehari: Could it be due to age also. There is a theory that we subconsciously are biased towards the music we heard during growing up years.
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Balu
January 31, 2018
@KayKay – Having recorded 100s of such songs (and sometimes re-recorded on the same tape to save money!), it is quite hilarious how bad those songs sound now. I can barely make out all the instruments used. I guess it similar to watching 480p video after watching 1080p and 4k content. The first thought that comes to my mind – “How the heck did i watch these for so many years”!
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Madan
January 31, 2018
@Tambidude: I used to believe there’s something to that theory. But I recently got into hip hop , so I guess I still have the curiosity to engage with a new genre (new for me, that is) and artists I am unfamiliar with. So I think that is only part of the answer. I wonder if you have seen this video:
Maybe something similar is at work in our film music. Music directors face a lot of competition and are approached at the eleventh hour to come up with songs. So they may get risk averse and stick to the known hit formula.After all, whether it is ‘new’ doesn’t depend on the release date alone; it has to offer a new experience too. If Angus Young and Brian Johnson got back to make a ‘farewell’ AC DC album, the odds of it being at all different from their zillions of previous albums is very, very slim.
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e,hari
January 31, 2018
@Thambidue: Could it be due to age also. There is a theory that we subconsciously are biased towards the music we heard during growing up years
Could be due to age and shortening attention span. But there are new songs ( few) which I do like. One issue is, unlike old times where each composer had a signature sound, which you used to and familiarity and loyalty helped. But I don’t find current songs have a distinct composer signatures ( HJ & ARR to some extent being exceptions), so you lose that personal language composers used to speak to fans.
You have mentioned this few times in different threads. Do you have the example of the song, where IR recording was bad that you could hear metronome.
My take is, IR recording quality varied based on producer/director/actor. DK, if they were budget related or due to busy schedule left it to the assistants. But I do have issues with Echo records both on quality of tapes and packages.
Regarding SPB’s hindi pronunciation – My take is he did ok under LP and RDB since they were old schoolers and particular about diction. Don’t think Ram Lakshman, Nadeem Shravan or Anand Milind were either particular on diction or had the stature to enforce it on SPB. Even in Tamil, left to his own, SPB can go overboard.
Going back to Mangeshkars, they had issues, but not to the extent as Sadhna Sargam or Udit Narayanan. Sonu nigam did excellent job in both Jeans and Mumbai express, and KK was good.
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Madan
January 31, 2018
Even in Ek Duje/Sagar, SPB sounded too, well, Madrasi but he was singing for Kamal so it was ok. Right, SPB has to be reined in and I don’t think anybody succeeded in both reining him in and getting a distinct style of vocals from him to the extent that IR did. Tamil Uyire doesn’t overwhelm the Hindi Tu Mile even though SPB is a much better singer than Kumar Sanu.
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shaviswa
January 31, 2018
@e,Hari – Sonu Nigam’s Enna paattu vendum unakku from Oru Naal Oru Kanavu is a fantastic song and Sonu doing some impressive work for Raja. 🙂
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Tambi Dude
January 31, 2018
EH: 1. Not me, but a friend of mine. I am pretty sure he was referring to the movie Kozhi Koovuthu. Interestingly that was the movie about which RD Burman commented that “IR is 20 yrs ahead of rest of us”.
“But I don’t find current songs have a distinct composer signatures ( HJ & ARR to some extent being exceptions), so you lose that personal language composers used to speak to fans.”
So true. Actually I even go to the extent to say that never in the history did tamil and hindi music sound so similar. Tamil songs always had a distinct sound until the likes of ARR , SEL , HR, AT started following the same template and sound.
I always maintain that the best of SPB in Hindi was “Paagal Dil Mera” from Aaja Meri Jaan. What a voice and tremendous yodeling. Officially the MD were Amar Utpal, but it was RDB who composed it. Long story there.
You are right that the recording quality of IR differed. I felt that Punnagai Mannan was well recorded. But Agni Nakshatram was not. His non film album How to Name it or Nothing But Wind were also his better ones in recording. Another horrible one was Neengal Kettavai. O Vasantha Raja was spoiled by a recording done most likely in the garage or basement.
Not starting another Madras vs Bombay war, IMO, until ARR came , Hindi songs were definitely superior in recording. As I have mentioned this before, some of the 80s songs of RDB sounds really good even today. For example, Arjun Song “dhadkan pal pal badtee jaye”. The crispness and the pitch of the every sound was very good. The disappointment of IR’s sound becomes very apparent when you listen his songs in iphone. There got to be a reason why Mani Ratnam and IR recoded Thalapathy’s songs in Bombay using RDB’s musicians and studio. It shows in the quality of the sound in the song Sundari Kannal.
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Tambi Dude
January 31, 2018
When it comes to recording, IR got his act together only in the last 10-15 yrs, as seen in Mumbai Express and Neethaane En Ponvasantham songs.
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shaviswa
January 31, 2018
Ilaiyaraja’s songs would have been sensational with good recording and with a good cassette company to release them. Punnagai Mannan sounded better maybe because one Dilip aka ARR was with him then?
While some of the digitized Raja tracks are good to hear, it may not be the same as better recording technology. Imagine listening to Tik Tik Tik songs with today’s recording tech!! Or for that matter songs from Ilamai kalangal or Johnny. It is sad that there was not enough money then in Tamil cinema to provide with state of the art recording technology. ARR has been the pioneer on that front.
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Madan
January 31, 2018
“I felt that Punnagai Mannan was well recorded. But Agni Nakshatram was not.” – Interesting. I on the other hand find there is much better bass in the drum sound on Agni, which gives the songs a lot more heft. Especially Oru Poongavanam. Yes, Thalapathy was the absolute best recording during the classic phase and it is very evident. I wonder if Anada Kummi songs were also recorded in Mumbai because the sound quality is distinctly good among other thin sounding recordings of the mid 80s.
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Tambi Dude
January 31, 2018
“Punnagai Mannan sounded better maybe because one Dilip aka ARR was with him then??
Dilip’s role was to play the synthesizer exactly as told. He was a daily wage laborer, not an architect.
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Tambi Dude
January 31, 2018
“It is sad that there was not enough money then in Tamil cinema to provide with state of the art recording technology. ”
I don’t buy this in case of IR. He was the top composer and money certainly could not have been the issue. At the risk of inflaming his fans, it was his attitude towards sound engineering. He either was careless, or considered it as a hype.
Keep in mind that, in general, Indian musicians were zero in sound engineering.
I guess they considered it as a western concept, not fit for Indian consumption.
Long time back I read an interview of violinist L Shankar who mentioned that his stint in US taught him the value of sound engineering. You can notice it in his “Who’s to know”, “Pancha Nadai Pallavi” and “Abheri”. All 3 recorded in US.
In his virtuosity in Carnatic music, I think he is rank mediocre, but those 3 albums had a sound quality far superior to any other carnatic violinist I have heard.
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e.hari
February 1, 2018
Madan – IMO, SPB best songs are from 70s for MSV, V Kumar, SG and IR. He sang wonderful songs in that period and in 80s IR gave more focus to instrumentation( interludes) than vocals and lyrics. No doubt that SPB/IR collaboration produced wonderful songs in the 80s , but personally I like SPB in the 70s;
Tambi Dude – Kozhi koovadu – there were 3 popular songs ( Ehdo moham, Anne Anne and Poove illaya poove). The song you are referring may be one of other 2 (filler) songs, as I don;t see this issue in the 3 popular songs. I do agree to some extent Tamil songs are getting more rhythm oriented like Hindi and focus is more on building the song around 1-2 catchy lines, still think current TFM and MFM music is way ahead of the rest.
on the recording side, though IR had his own recording studio in Prasad, not sure if it is owned and funded exclusively by him or leased, ARR later and current music directors have their own studio. it was no secret that until ARR came, the best sound studios were in Mumbai and unfortunately IR did not pursue in getting a resident sound engineer like Sridhar. In the early 80s, you had albums like raja parvai with a good sound also ninavellam nithya a great album otherwise marred by the ok recording.
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Madan
February 1, 2018
@e Hari I agree that IR’s focus was always more on the overall arrangement but he also experimented with expressing emotions that were then unusual in Tamil film music. In a sense, like RD liberated Bollywood from puritanism with songs like Dam Maro Dam, likewise IR also allowed for the bolder and more ‘dangerous’ emotions to be expressed in music. This gave SPB a fertile canvas which he did not enjoy with MSV or V Kumar. Like the half whispered Mugilingal in Ilaya Nila (Kishore’s rendition is more straight up and hence imo less interesting). Also on the Ninaivellam Nithya songs, well, it’s a long list. Also, in the 70s SP was singing at a high pitch TMS-like which made his voice sound a little effeminate. With IR, he lowered his pitch and his delivery also became more relaxed and effortless. IR was able to slot him somewhere between Kishore and Rafi. But for IR, SP would have continued as a successor of TMS/Ghantasala without his own unique stamp.
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Viswanathan C
February 1, 2018
@Madan Ananda Kummi were recorded in Mumbai. It was produced by IR and the screenplay was by Vairamuthu.
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Madan
February 1, 2018
@ Viswanathan C: Thanks for corroborating my hunch. The rhythm track is more powerful on these recordings, especially Oh Vennilaave.
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shaviswa
February 1, 2018
@Madan
“But for IR, SP would have continued as a successor of TMS/Ghantasala without his own unique stamp.”
My uncle called this as the “mandira kuttu” – divine knock on the head – that SPB got from Raja 🙂
Interestingly, Raja survived in his musical journey thanks to SPB who took him into his band. I would say their relationship was symbiotic. Sadly, the two were at loggerheads not long ago. 😦
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shaviswa
February 2, 2018
“@Madan Ananda Kummi were recorded in Mumbai. It was produced by IR and the screenplay was by Vairamuthu.”
Ah…now I understand why that film was so horrible despite the music. 🙂
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Viswanathan C
February 2, 2018
@Madan-I always felt that the songs in Ananda Kummi were soulless. Not sure why.
@shaviswa- I agree with you. WIkipedia tells me that there were two directors involved-wonder why? Also to be exact- when I said that it was produced by IR I assumed it was under the Pavalar Creations banner. It turns out that it was produced by IR’s wife. A case of trying to help Vairumuthu establish himself as an script writer, perhaps?
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Madan
February 3, 2018
@Viswanathan C: No idea what could be the reason since I don’t feel the same way. I believe BR described Thamarai Kodi in his 40 years of IR write up too. Maybe not one of his ‘significant’ soundtracks but still a good one.
On an unrelated note, the Ilaiyaraja official YT channel has good quality uploads of many songs. Here’s Agni:
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sanjana
February 3, 2018
This song is really nice and for the first time I am hearing it here. A dreamy song though the picturisation is tacky with too many butterflies. Some songs are to be heard only.
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Tambi Dude
February 3, 2018
Madan: Wow. I was not aware of IR’s official channel. Yes the sound quality of AN’s songs are indeed good. I saw one of my favorite Valai Osai (Satya) in the recommended section. Heard that one too. Much better than the one I have.
That brings a technical question. Are these digitally enhanced after so many years despite not a stellar job by the sound engineer at that time.
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Madan
February 3, 2018
Tambidude: Possibly. This is not really for me to answer, someone actually working in the music industry can comment on whether it’s just a digital copy or a remaster. I was too young at the time to have watched the film so I can’t say if the original masters themselves were poor quality or if it’s just that the cassettes circulated in the market were ‘noisy’. If you listen to the upload of Oru Poongavanam on the Rajshri films channel, it has a seemingly omnipresent layer of noise underneath. But I remember buying two cassettes back in 2004 (pretty much the very last ones I bought) and the sound was pretty good on them. The problem with analog was simply that if you didn’t tend to YOUR copy, it would start getting scratchy with repeated use and that thenjupona distortion of notes. Maybe that was happening a lot rather than the masters themselves being bad. I am saying this because the uploads on the Ilaiyaraja official channel are very clean and remastering ALL those songs would be expensive. More likely that IR himself has good quality masters in his possession and the radio/TV channels have copies that were either poor from the get go or have got worn out.
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Vivek narain
February 3, 2018
‘O Butter’ turns out to be better than ‘the best butter’, 86 and still going strong. A definite improvement on the one that Alice’s friends March hare and Mad hatter used in their watch.
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Tambi Dude
February 3, 2018
Yeah this is definitely a technical question. I am able to pick some sounds which I never heard before. I find it bit hard to believe that every version I heard before was somehow a bad version. If only my collection of IR had such recording, I would not been so critical of IR’s sound engineering 🙂
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Madan
February 3, 2018
Tambi Dude: The first time I heard really high quality recordings of IR songs was back in the early noughties when a music shop in Chennai made us CDs with customised song selections. When I listened to the CDs on an mp3 player with earphones, I truly understood how many layers his compositions have. IF I can locate the old tape with assorted IR songs that we used to have, I will play it just for comparison’s sake and see (yes, I STILL have the lone 2 in 1 player and it came in handy when father was recuperating from surgery because he could extend the antenna and listen to radio just like old times). But back to the point, nobody in India was talking remasters yet, so I am very skeptical that those could have been remasters. And also given the sheer size of IR’s catalog. But who knows. The remasters done by others like MAHA/Music Master/Kadar Majee are different, you can make out that the level of say bass is different from the original. The IR official channel versions play exactly like the originals (duh) but without scratches for the most part.
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Madan
February 4, 2018
Apropos nothing in particular: I have enjoyed the appreciation conveyed by the many commenters on this thread as well as the digressions into different, related and even somewhat unrelated topics. BUT my little hope expressed at the end of the article, that perhaps somebody else had also heard Manju Jayaram’s rendition of O Butterfly and to hear how that somebody remembered it has so far been belied. 😦 I have seen threads get bumped up after ages in this space, so maybe that will happen…
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shaviswa
February 5, 2018
@Madan and @Tambi Dude – We got a music system at home just around the time Agni Natchathiram was released. This was a Philips sound system with 4 speakers and Dolby and Surround Sound – especially the state of the art that was available in India. Everyone teased me for getting it as Tamil film songs do not need such a sound system to listen to. This made me start listening to western rock and pop music.
Then Agni Natchathiram released and when I played the new cassette on that – boy oh boy!! I was in instant love with the sound that I heard in a Tamil film song. I could sense that Raja’s songs had a distinct sound quality from that time onwards – Agni Natchathiram was followed by Sathya, Idhayathai Thirudathae, Apoorva Sahodarargal, Vetri Vizha, etc. Then the early 1990s followed which was probably Raja’s most prolific period in churning out hit after hit. The films that I loved include the following
Bobbili Raja (Telugu)
Anjali
Chatriyan
Amman Kovil Kizhakkalae
Keladi Kanmani
Kizhakku Vasal
MMKR
Mounam Sammadham
My Dear Mathandan (some excellent songs in this film)
Raja Kaiya Vecha (Mazhai Varudhu song)
Thalapathi
Gopura Vasalile
Idhayam
among many many others. And all to of these films also had some excellent sound mixing which was wonderful to hear.
But then, 1992 also saw another storm hit the tamil film industry and actually across entire India – Isai Puyal AR Rahman. And that sound was in a completely different league!! 🙂
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Rahini David
February 5, 2018
Madan: perhaps somebody else had also heard Manju Jayaram’s rendition of O Butterfly and to hear how that somebody remembered it has so far been belied
Madan, maybe it is too early to say, no? Manju Jayaram’s kin or kith can come across this piece and it is quite possible that that particular rendition gets its due after decades.
For the next few days, I’d be indulging in a few digressions and non-digressions about covers, remixes, nostalgia, personal music collections and such like myself. I was thinking of writing a “reader’s write in” on cover versions myself, but the nebulous thoughts refused to fuse into a reasonably solid but pliable points to be jotted down. Does that happen to others?
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Madan
February 5, 2018
@ Rahini David: I for one can’t say because my writing is almost purely improvised. It’s not like I decided I should write about MJ and then jotted points I wanted to cover in it. Just one fine day, I remembered the whole thing, thought about how I was still unable to find any clips of the performance on YT and connected the two and started writing. The Bela Shende aside happened as I wrote. If I feel like it, I can vomit 2000 words in 20 minutes. If I don’t, I won’t get past 200 for the hour. I would say trying to bring the visual memory of that performance (or if it was pure audio, then how you came across and in what settings you heard it) and then putting it to words is the easiest way to write. Whether it’s the best way or not is not for me to say but it’s the only way I know. 😀
Yeah, agreed that at almost any date from now on, someone who did hear it may come across this write up. I thought there was a good chance of it happening sooner given the demographic of this blog’s readers but no such luck so far.
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sanjana
February 5, 2018
During college days, we used to have singing sessions where everyone interested in singing used to participate. Especially hindi film songs and also telugu songs. Without bothering about nuances and apaswaras! And some really stood out for flawless singing and they were selected to perform during college functions. This article brought out some memories. And in local trains, some kids sing wonderfully and melt our hearts.
There is many a singer unsung but remembered by a lucky few.
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Madan
February 5, 2018
@shaviswa: Wow, surround sound in the 80s, you were way ahead of the times. I think we just barely graduated to a 2-in-1 system around that time. Got a 60W PMPO or whatever they called it in the mid 90s. Then, of course, CDs happened. I agree that through the late 80s, the recording quality on IR songs improved. By the early 90s, even smaller rural based films also had good sound. No comparison with Rahman in terms of sound, of course.
I couldn’t find any tapes of IR sadly when I rummaged the leftover collection on Sunday. Do still have a Naushad best of, an assorted rock collection and an ABBA compilation. I swear Tom Sawyer sounds great on tape. Without a hi-fi system, you can’t get a full sound but there’s just something about the way the sound blends on analog that I don’t get at all on the CD (and I do have the CD of Moving Pictures). Next when I have time, I will compare the same song and see what my impressions are. Rewind/FF is a pain, though; had totally forgotten about that. 😀
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shaviswa
February 6, 2018
@Madan – Somehow my parents fell for my marketing tricks and decided to get me that system. I had that with me for almost 10 years before I upgraded to a Sony system with a 5 CD changer that also had a woofer if I remember correctly – all with my first month’s salary 🙂
Now I listen to music using my headsets 😀
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Madan
February 6, 2018
@shaviswa: I have a home theater but rarely get to use it since it’s at parents’ place. Yeah, mostly it’s my trusty Senheiser CX180. “Ye Kahan Aa Gaye Hum!”
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Vivek narain
February 7, 2018
Any audiophile knows that you need speakers or headphones that cost around a couple of lakhs to get the true rendition of 320kbps+ digital music, otherwise it is hard to tell the difference from a 128kbps file. Unless of course you’re a perfect luddite and can catch hold of the crank driven gramophone and the lps of your choice. Cassete tape has the hiss of motor, though the spool kind has truer response, as near to vinyl as possible. I have used all except the rs.2 lakh headphones.
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Tambi Dude
February 8, 2018
Vivek: 128 vs 320 is palpable with headphones when I listen to Pandora/Slacker.
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Vivek narain
February 8, 2018
Dude: these hardware things are quirky, you may have hit it lucky with the brand that’s as good as the best.
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Madan
February 8, 2018
@Vivek Narain4: Yeah, but mercifully I am not an audiophile. I can tell a 128 kbps recording from one off the original CD without expensive equipment. Maybe sometimes I can’t. But that’s ok. I am more interested in the energy and the performance anyway.
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Tambi Dude
February 8, 2018
Madan: CD vs 128 is ridiculously easy to detect. I actually tested that with my wife on a Bose Wave radio. With my back turned towards the Bose system, she would flip between audio and 128 mp3 of Thiruda Thiruda and I had to figure out. My success rate was 100% 🙂
The first thing you will notice is that bass gets mercilessly butchered in mp3.
320 makes it much harder to detect because it does a good job of preserving bass. That is the reason why all streaming services in USA have moved to 320.
ps: Huge fan of Bose Wave Radio.
https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/speakers/wave/wave-music-system.html?mc=25_PS_WA_PL_00_GO_&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIy5r5qpmW2QIVUp7ACh1SqAnQEAQYASABEgJ0YvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds#v=wms_4_platinum_silver
Mine is a much older version.
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Madan
February 8, 2018
@Tambidude: You mean 320 vs CD? Yup. Because 320 is the best compression you get off the CD. 128 v/s 320/CD is easy, agreed. Sometimes whole layers of instruments disappear in 128 kbps. Anyway I get my music off Bandcamp or CDs or Google Play. Which is all high quality files as far as I can tell.
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Vivek narain
February 8, 2018
Actually the bit rate of audio cd is 1411 kbps, and if you rip it into hard drive in a lossless format like flac it will be of same quality as original, but if you compress it into mp3 or aac it will lose details. But what happens with anything digital is that the supporting hardware is beyond ordinary mortal, 320 kbps is the tops and quite reasonable sounding. Analog on the other hand will give a stupendous job with a moderate quality hardware (speakers). Similar situation exists with photography, a 120 b/w film will give a resolution that is equivalent to 100 megapixels of digital sensor, only your camera must have compatible quality lens like carl zeiss or nikkor, and can be had for free from a friend. Digital camera of similar resolution, 100mp, will cost a bundle.
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Gautham
March 31, 2018
Wonderful write-in. There’s so much I can relate to here. In a way, I feel sorry for the Gen Z. There’s seemingly little mystery left, the type that comes from wondering because of poor bit-rates and pixellation.
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Madan
March 31, 2018
“the type that comes from wondering because of poor bit-rates and pixellation” – Which in turn adds far less to the appreciation of art than all the hemming and hawing over it would suggest. The soul of a great performance of music is not destroyed by a low bit rate nor is a mediocre one elevated merely because it is available in FLAC.
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Gautham
April 2, 2018
Agreed. What it does though, is that it crushes all possibility of an ordinary performance being construed as something magical. Imagine a batsman shaping up to play a square cut but instead playing something resembling a late cut. Without blurry footage, you can’t wonder if there was a late adjustment involving the wrists or arcing of the back (while knowing that in all likelihood, it was an edge); and that aspect of viewer involvement and gentle mental work-outs too disappear.
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Madan
April 2, 2018
“What it does though, is that it crushes all possibility of an ordinary performance being construed as something magical.” – Absolutely, 80s old school metal demos might lose a lot of credit with today’s recordings! 😀 And with the benefit of HD footage, old timers would not be able to claim that Sunil Gavaskar bested the greatest West Indian bowling attack on bouncy decks on their home soil.
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Madan
April 2, 2018
*cred
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