Posted on March 3, 2018
An Unsuitable Boy: Karan Johar in conversation with Baradwaj Rangan
The Hindu Lit for Life 2018 was held on January 14, 15 & 16 at Sir Mutha Concert Hall, Chetpet, Chennai, India.
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Baradwaj Rangan 
lakshmi
March 3, 2018
Entertaining session.
BR is greeted with cheers louder than those for Karan Johar 🙂
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"Original" venkatesh
March 3, 2018
@Lakshmi : Absolutely , BR is a bigger star than Karan. This is Chennai of course.
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Anu Warrier
March 3, 2018
This was really fun! Loved your crack about nepotism. Loved the fact that he took every single question on his chin, and answered it with – well, 80% honesty. 🙂 Also, I admire him for apologising for stuff that he put in his films without thought about the repercussions. Good for him for saying that going forward, he would be responsible about showing stalking-as-romance, wouldn’t put in unnecessary item songs, would try and ensure that entire regions aren’t caricatured, etc. That level of self-awareness and honesty is refreshing.
He’s that rare celebrity whom I would have loved to interview back in my journalism days. To be honest, this is exactly how he comes across in real life as well.
Thanks for an entertaining hour, BR.
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tonks
March 3, 2018
Honest, self aware, articulate, intelligent, a little vulnerable and best of all, self deprecating humour : one can’t help liking the person Karan Johar comes across as, in his conversations. I really liked the questions, too. That was a very entertaining interview.
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Sev
March 4, 2018
Sorry for the elitist-sounding comment but looking at the names of the books in the background and the guest and his book, I cannot help but field a dissonance between the two. I mean, most of the readers including myself like books and are not limited to or even read that much of literary writing. So why not be honest and use the more humble but more appropriate and broader term “books”? It sounds somewhat fake whether it was intentional or not. Anyhow, Brangan, I would like to hear your thoughts on films and books than KJohar’s. So please keep it coming.
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Sev
March 4, 2018
I meant to use the term “Books for LIfe” or Book Festival, instead of Lit for Life or Literature Festival.
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avan
March 4, 2018
Hi BR,
I enjoy watching Karan Johar’s interviews because of his interesting responses and this one is no exception. You did a good job both as an interviewer and a moderator.
Could you briefly share your experience interviewing him
How different was it interviewing him compared to other celebrities?
Was there a less relevant question (e.g., controversial, not related to movies) that you refrained from asking him?
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Madan
March 4, 2018
Loved the last question (not that the other questions weren’t interesting). Also interesting that he says Roman Holiday influenced him to make aspirational films but his own films are usually very heavy. Maybe that is the Indian melodrama influence? Also, since the time I watched Ae Dil Hai Mushkil, I read this book called Emotional Agility and I can better understand now why he was so intent on using the right word to capture relationships “You are my strength, he is my weakness” kind of thing. It may not necessarily improve my viewing experience but I am in a training program where we are being told to understand and clearly articulate what we are feeling (and not just good/bad) so I understand where KJ is going with his stress on emotions.
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ramitbajaj01
March 4, 2018
Not that the debates about item songs and stalking are the recent ones. These have been there for so long. Despite that, we got Chikni Chameli and Badri ki Stalking. So what made KJo wake up now? (Is there a possibility that the stalking debate on this blog jolted him?) And more importantly, why didn’t he take notice earlier? Had he never heard of these issues before?
Regarding honesty in ADHM, I think the movie romanticised one-sided love. Making it all powerful and pure. Despite that, KJo chose to advise against it to people on CallingKaran, as any elder should. In that respect, is ADHM really honest? Especially when his core ideology is just the opposite. Or is it that he got to introspect only after making his movie? (but that would be very kiddish if it is so)
Regarding his desire to come back to Commercial cinema, I wonder if this is where his true heart lies. He says people asked him to follow his heart, and he did with ADHM, and now he wants to target Rs.300 crore club. So, his ‘honest’ movie was to please others? What could be more dishonest than that? (Someone who had found his calling would be unlikely to return to old ways, especially when he had the means)
And he says people in showbiz can’t be private. Yet, he says he likes to guard his closet. How convenient! If others r doing it, they r hypocite. If he is doing it, it’s within his self-defined 20% limit. So convenient and hypocritical!
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Anu Warrier
March 4, 2018
@ramit, man, you must really hate Karan Johar! 🙂
Just a few thoughts – are we seriously at the part where, when someone actually sits up and takes responsibility for item songs/stalking, we are going to excoriate him for NOT taking notice earlier? There’s a saying in Hindi – Der aaye durust aaye. Even today, you have film-makers who are adamant that showing stalking-as-romance in films is not problematic, and you find fault that Johar wasn’t enlightened earlier? FSM!
Re: ADHM – I didn’t get the feeling that the film romanticised or glorifed one-sided love. RK’s character in that was possible the most annoying in the film. It was hard to feel any sympathy for him. To me, I thought it showed RK rationalising his one-sided love so he could move on.
Advising people against it in real life is fine. What is contrary about it? ADHM showed the pain the character went through because of that one-sided love. He managed to salvage himself, but it is not necessary that others have the wherewithal to do so. Why should Johar advise anyone to follow that arc? RK’s arc in the film was Johar’s. It ended relatively happily. But with the millions of possible realities, does Johar really want to be responsibile for someone else’s tragedy? Life is not the movies anyway. His core ideology came at the end of a lot of heartache – if he wants to save someone else that, why is it dishonest?
So he made one ‘honest’ movie and now he is equally honest about his craving to make a commercial film that will hit the 300-crore club. Why is that dishonest? I don’t know about you – but I can hold two contradictory thoughts in my head at the same time. Critical acclaim is great but as Naseeruddin Shah said famously, it doesn’t pay the bills. Hrishikesh Mukherjee made Satyakam – the film most dearest to his heart. With its failure, he stopped making tragedies. Would you have called him dishonest? [He would have still got the backing to make the films he wanted; he chose not to.]
It really is possible to make one deeply personal film and then return to making a blockbuster. FWIW, Johar has always been honest about his love for the masalagenre and his inability to make other kinds of films.
Weren’t his remarks about privacy and his remark about his guarding his closer 20% made in completely different contexts? One is about the papparazzi covering public appearances; the other is concerning a very private part of a person’s life.
[I’m grinning as I type this because I have never seen another public figure who so polarises reactions as Karan Johar. People either seem to like him or hate him. I find him relatively honest in his ambitions.]
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tonks
March 4, 2018
And he says people in showbiz can’t be private. Yet, he says he likes to guard his closet. How convenient! If others r doing it, they r hypocite. If he is doing it, it’s within his self-defined 20% limit. So convenient and hypocritical!
He was talking/ making a pun about his very personal decision to not come out of his closet, while writing his memoir (or otherwise). How can one criticize that decision, when the IPC itself is taking such a primitive stand in India. Even it were not so, that is still his personal choice. No hypocrisy or dishonesty there, IMO.
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Madan
March 4, 2018
Well, I did dislike one – and the only – part of what he said in the hour long discussion and that is the part where he says it upsets him deeply that he doesn’t get credit because he doesn’t act serious or play hard to get. Sounds like a thinly veiled dig at those filmmakers who do take the art form seriously. Well, that is their choice and he made his and which at least partly contributes to his commercial success as well. So can’t have it both ways. And while he does deserve credit for opening up space to discuss topics that were hitherto considered taboo, he himself admits he has never made a film he was completely satisfied with. So maybe he will get the respect he craves as a filmmaker when he does strike the right balance. I still think he gets carried away with sentiment which is ultimately a drag on his films and also with clarifying the emotions too much. As I said above, I better relate to what he is trying to do there now but in the cinema format, it is more satisfying imo when some feelings are left unsaid and open to the audience’s interpretation rather than dramatizing everything so that they are left in no doubt. Like, there’s no scene in One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest where Jack Nicholson actually explains why he wastes time celebrating with the inmates having plotted his escape instead of just getting the F.O. It is left to the audience to infer that this could be because he had come to love them in his time there and couldn’t part so easily as much as he wanted to for his wellbeing.
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ramitbajaj01
March 4, 2018
@Anu- I was asking that academically, as in WHAT EXACTLY happened now that his conscience has woken up? Was it really the Badri debate on this blog? How come so many editorials of last decade couldn’t stir him up?
And regarding, ADHM, I think it followed one-sided love very closely, very subjectively. It valorized the pain. To me, it glorified unrequited love. Consider in contrast, Padmaavat. I think SLB treated the folk story with a bird’s eye view. He placed it in modern ethos. He carefully distanced himself from glorifying Jauhar. (Surely, many people would disagree at this. But I am talking about my view point.)
And regarding contradictory thoughts, I hope KJo doesn’t later say that ‘We wanted to enter 300cr club, so we HAD TO add this item song. See I am being honest about it.’ I am putting out this imaginary scenario, because with ADHM, he said ‘it’s my most honest movie. I no longer want to impress anyone. But I have added just one commercial song in it. Breakup song. It’s a beautiful song. I love it.’ All I am saying- Ve KJo maan ja. Ya dhoop chune ya chhav, kaisi teri khudgarzi!
Regarding his 80% honesty, all I am saying is that he is going out and calling public figures hypocrites for guarding their private lives, and he himself guards his private life too! (Not just paparazzi, even in his show, he would try to coax guests in revealing their relationship status, and would ask them not to guard their private lives. Talk about hypocrisy!)
@tonks- If one wants to guard one’s private life, be my guest. But then why constantly asking other public figures to be comfortable about talking about their private lives? This to me is hypocrisy!
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Anu Warrier
March 4, 2018
he would try to coax guests in revealing their relationship status, and would ask them not to guard their private lives.
I think there’s a difference between revealing a heterosexual relationship and guarding a private life that is even today criminalised. In the context of the show, everyone who goes on it, they all know what it is about. It is not meant to be serious.
As in ‘What exactly happened to arouse his conscience?’, perhaps that’s a question that BR could have asked in the interview. I think you give this blog and its comment section a lot of power if you think Johar was enlightened because of our discussions.
And if it were so, so what? Like I said, he has wakened up to a sense of feeling responsible for it, and as far as I’m concerned, that’s great. If he then turns around and inserts a gratuitous item song (not a song that carries the narrative forward) or produces/directs a stalking as romance film, then sure, pull him onto the carpet for it.
Also, inserting a song because he liked it is hardly ‘wanting to impress anyone’. That’s making a film, hearing a song and deciding that hey, I like this song, can it go into the film? Yes. And putting it in.
But never mind – I doubt I’m going to change your views. And you undoubtedly have strong ones on the man. So let’s leave it at that, shall we?
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ramitbajaj01
March 5, 2018
Being gay is not illegal in India, only engaging in certain acts of sexuality is. If he didn’t want to mention about his partners, fine. But he won’t even acknowledge his orientation. This is cowardice. And his discomfort about this topic. It’s okay. But then why ask others to talk about things that they r not comfortable about?
“And if it were so, so what?”
then we need to strengthen these mediums that r speaking to the influential filmmakers.
“inserting a song because he liked it is hardly ‘wanting to impress anyone’”
all I am saying is that a piece of art has a running thread, a tone and texture. By not sticking to one line of thought, u r disrupting the flow for the audience. Most commercial movies won’t bother themselves about this coherence. But most art movies do. I am asking Karan to pick a side and stick to it, not for full oeuvre, but at least for one movie.
“I doubt I’m going to change your views”
I am discussing about the source of a filmmaker’s inspiration, his stand on a social psychological problem (romanticism of heartache), the intricacies of commercial vs. art movies, occupational hazards of being a celebrity, etc. Why r u focusing on my views on Karan? Just talk about the issue, and step out!
“let’s leave it at that, shall we?”
U r asking as if I had invited u into the discussion.
To give u a taste of ur medicine – Let’s resist defending our egos here, and focus only on the issues of general interest, shall we?
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Madan
March 5, 2018
@ramitbaja01: But there’s a huge space between pure art and pure commercial and KJ himself says he’s trying to fall in the middle slot. Let’s take the example of a highly acclaimed director Mani Ratnam. His film Bombay was clearly more artsy than what passed for commercial cinema in Bollywood at that time. And yet it had the Humma Humma track which was performed by guest dancers and not actors who recur in the screenplay. If you are familiar with his Tamil work, I can give more such examples of something commercial in a classy film like the unrelated VK Ramaswamy comedy track in Agni Natchatram which never intersects with the story of the main characters. By the by, Mani also says he’s not interested in making low budget films, that he wants them to do a certain amount of business. So what KJ is saying is clearly not unusual. And I am avowedly not a KJ fan. Everytime I tried to watch his films in full, I came back feeling bored/annoyed/irritated.
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Anu Warrier
March 5, 2018
@Ramit, that was unnecessarily hostile and unnecessarily rude. I wasn’t defending my ego; that was just my way of saying let’s agree to disagree. No, you didn’t ‘invite’ me to a discussion; but this is a comment board and people tend to respond to each other. That’s all I did.
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Anu Warrier
March 5, 2018
p.s No one is required to go around acknowledging their sexual orientation. No one. As for ‘Why ask?’ People are always welcome to ask. People ask him, as well. Whether he, or they want to answer or not, is his/ their prerogative. Always.
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Doba
March 5, 2018
I have never enjoyed his movies but I used to like his interviews. Now even those are beginning to bore. Its probably my age. But I wish a person who is in the thick of the creative industry would have more substance in his conversations.
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Sifter
March 5, 2018
Like Karan Johar (not his movies) and liked this interview. He is entertaining to say the least! He was genuinely surprised and pleased when that lady praised his product placements 🙂
I also had a few ‘how convenient’ moments when he talked about how people do not take him seriously, his wish to make an out and out commercial movie next….a convenient pre-justification to insert an item song/stakerish romance, etc, etc. That too soon after he apologized for the same in his movies!
To me he is very close to becoming that person who is very articulate and entertaining and fun, but also very tiresome.
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MANK
March 5, 2018
Another interview with Karan the Joker by Brangan, the king of critics, Ugh! for someone recovering from sridevi’s death, this one cuts really deep, god, not anymore , aur nahi bas aur nahi , gham ke pyale aur naheen…
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shaviswa
March 6, 2018
I dont like Karan Johar’s movies nor do I like the person. I did not even watch this interview and nor do I intend to. His movies were horrible. And his interviews are usually filled with shallow ideas expressed articulately in English.
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ramitbajaj01
March 6, 2018
For the record, I love Karan Johar, and I love his interviews. In the above comments, I was only talking about some specific issues. (Moreover, if I love someone strongly for the 95% part, that doesn’t mean I can’t criticize him strongly for the 5% part.)
@Anu- that hostility and rudeness wasn’t unnecessary. You very much evoked it out of me, for ur unsolicited advice, ur shameless desire to teach others and change their opinions, and ur obsessive compulsive desire to have the last word.
@Madan- thanks for that comment. I hadn’t thought it that way. May get back to u later.
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brangan
March 6, 2018
People, please… Let’s try to not get personal…
I’m going to try and change the subject. So ramitbajaj01, list five things you DO love about KJo 🙂
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ramitbajaj01
March 6, 2018
ok, sir. 🙂
His ability to assess a situation with fair accuracy, with even the minimal of inputs. (CallingKaran)
His neutrality in evaluating a scenario. If it means finding fault with the caller, be it (but with politeness).
His reading of mass audience’s pulse. Most of the Dharma productions movies are a hit.
The music of his movies. (Slow/philosophical/romantic songs + dance numbers.)
His genial demeanor.
His comfort level in his skin.
His restraint in not revealing things that he doesn’t want to. (without being mean.)
The melodrama of his movies.
His genuine respect for his rivals.
His explicit expression of love towards his near and dear ones.
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2018
ramitbajaj01 – “Being gay is not illegal in India, only engaging in certain acts of sexuality is.”
->That comment gave me so much whiplash my head just got knocked back into the 18th century Hindoostan.
->That comment was the equivalent of the boingoingoingoingoingoing sound effect.
->That comment just made me go “Hainji? Kyaji?” in my best Dilli auntie voice.
->That comment made me want to go out, change my sexual orientation and become gay but legally, so guyss I’m gay… I’m just not “gay” so it’s all okay, okay?
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2018
Brangan: “. So ramitbajaj01, list five things you DO love about KJo 🙂”
oooo! Now make MANK do it????
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ramitbajaj01
March 7, 2018
Olemisstarana- I didn’t get ur point. We can talk like adults, you know. Instead of going on an emotional hyperbole. I had only narrated a fact. You really need to calm down, and get ur head around it. It’s okay, each day is a new learning. Ur Dilli wali auntie might be giving u a practical advice, which u would realize a few years later. Grow up.
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Vivek narain
March 7, 2018
Somehow i am remembring a certain Aimee Semple McPherson who founded her Four Square Gospel Movement in 1920s in Los Angeles.Once she came roaring down the ramp on a motorcycle and screeched to a halt with the words:’Stop! You’re headed straight for hell!’
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Rahini David
March 7, 2018
Olemiss, I wanted to comment on that legally gay comment too. Couldn’t find the words. boingoingoingoingoingoing sums it up I guess.
🙂
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Sahir.
March 7, 2018
The bit about item songs – well done, Karan, for having recognised its side-effects.
I just wanted to point out that the ‘item song’ in the narrow (for lack of another word) sense that he is talking about has only been seen in the films he has PRODUCED. The ones he’s directed have never had one (KKHH, K3G, KANK, MNIK, SOTY, ADHM and even Kal Ho Naa Ho). So obviously he’s been subconsciously aware of his inner aversion to these dances, only featuring them when other filmmakers have asked for them (specifically Karan Malhotra, I should think).
(Also, if you’re wondering what I mean by the narrow and broad senses of the item song:
Narrow, in the sense discussed here, is the item song with a woman dancing suggestively, surrounded by men; Chameli, Sheila, Pinky, Mary, Anarkali, Laila(s), etc.
But ‘item song’ is also used in a broad sense to mean simply a song-and-dance sequence that bears little or no connection to the rest of the film – and these KJo has had in his directed films. ‘Rock and Roll Soniye’ from KANK, ‘Say Shava Shava’ from K3G, even ‘Pretty Woman’ in KHNH.)
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2018
@ramitbajaj – Hmm. Okay, I’ll bite.
“Being gay is not illegal in India, only engaging in certain acts of sexuality is.”
What, pray tell is being gay according to you? Also, please forgive me at the offset if I come across as having an opinion because you seem to get incredibly flustered when women speak back to you.
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ramitbajaj01
March 7, 2018
I like opinionated women.
My point was that announcing one’s sexuality and engaging in sexual acts are two different things. In India, one can’t be jailed for the former. However, if there are some proven instances of one engaging in certain aspects of the latter, then that’s a trouble. Hopefully, that shall be removed by the end of this year.
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Srinivas R
March 7, 2018
To help ramati bajaj – to reveal that you are gay is not illegal. If you are caught in the act or somebody reports that you had sex with a person of same sex, then it becomes illegal. As ridiculous as it sounds, thats the law in India. I remember gay activists being upset that Karan johar refused to come out in his book and alluded to article 377 as the reason. Revealing that you are gay will not get you arrested. They were upset that he was adding to the misconception.
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Madan
March 7, 2018
I thought ramitbajaj01’s point about coming out was fair – and he made the distinction in his first post itself, not after being asked to clarify – and if people wish to disagree, hopefully it can be achieved without unnecessary sneering (and no, that isn’t hard).
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Vivek narain
March 7, 2018
Most of the people who know me consider me to be gay, i suppose it’s a rub-off from the Saint. Why! my monologues at the old maidens’ kitty party are a knockout and they declare me the gayest person. And i do it just to see those kindly faces light up with the radiant dawn of a new hope-the depressed souls getting a new lease of life- And….. that gives me strength to bear with the online pals, who want me to drop dead, but i still have a lot of superfluous energy that i have to get rid of somehow, so can’t drop dead.
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olemisstarana
March 7, 2018
@Ramitbajaj – partly fair. However, why are you so interested in KJ and his sexuality? Also, can you really not see a difference between a celebrity-interviewer coaxing his mostly heterosexual/normative interviewees into revealing their relationship statuses in a country where, as you put it “Being gay is not illegal in India, only engaging in certain acts of sexuality is.” Being gay then makes you a target of the government, right wing nutjobs, trolls, everyone. Unless you are a republican senator hiring rent boys in airport bathrooms while voting down don’t ask don’t tell, or a Catholic priest diddling an altar boy (etc.), your sexuality and how you handle it is your prerogative.
@Madan – so sneering is not okay, but personal attacks in the vein of ” that hostility and rudeness wasn’t unnecessary. You very much evoked it out of me, for ur unsolicited advice, ur shameless desire to teach others and change their opinions, and ur obsessive compulsive desire to have the last word.” is a-okay? Alright then.
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Anu Warrier
March 7, 2018
Madan, is unnecessary sneering only disallowed when it is women who do it? It was okay when Ramit did it to me?
You and I have disagreed – quite passionately, if I remember correctly. Neither of us have felt the need to be rude or snarky or profane. And no, as you say, it isn’t hard to be civil.
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Madan
March 7, 2018
@olemisstarana: I am sorry but wasn’t that addressed to Anu Warrier and not you? So that’s got nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with your response to ramit where you took his sentence about homosexuality and mocked it without understanding his point. As for whether it is or it is not ok, as I am not erm a social justice warrior and believe in free speech, anything is ok. It was only a suggestion in case you do not wish to embarrass yourself on a public forum by going for the jugular and missing by a mile, but should that not bother you in the least, please go full speed ahead.
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ramitbajaj01
March 7, 2018
I had no intention of bringing his sexuality into discussion. I was only highlighing the hypocrisy of his arguments. It is not about the relationship status, it’s about giving others the freedom to exercise their privilege of not talking about things that they r uncomfortable about, especially when you yourself are exercising that privilege. If Karan hadn’t explicitly talked about his sexuality, did that stop right wingers or trolls from harassing him? Not acknowledging his sexuality has served nothing, except giving him a comfort zone, which is entirely okay, provided u don’t try to snach that zone away from others. The explicitly acknowledged relationship status of a celebrity takes a toll on the couple, especially if they r in the nascent phase of their courtship. Imagine u r trying to make things work with ur partner, and then u have to deal with the added pressure of having to explain the paparazzi ‘why u guys r not together here’, ‘when r u going to visit him next’, ‘marriage’ etc. I think that young stars r doing perfectly fine in choosing not to talk about their love life, until they r ready to take the next firm step. Thus, constantly asking them to be public about their love life, since they r public figures, shows lack of empathy.
Sneering is an emotional reaction. In the course of discussion, it’s a hollow statement. On the other hand, criticism, however harsh or personal it might be, can still be refuted with logical arguments.
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Madan
March 8, 2018
@ Anu Warrier I am actually not condoning Ramit’s comment to you all. Since BR had made a rare interjection to ask people to not get personal, I didn’t feel it necessary to jump in. Now Ole started it again so I responded. Maybe I should have specifically addressed it to her since it wasn’t directed at anyone else, my mistake.
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therag
March 8, 2018
Madan Sir, Soga Sonnenga Sir!! Athellam apdiye varthuthaan la?
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Rahini David
March 8, 2018
Madan: Why assume that Olemisstarana did not understand Ramit’s point (valid in your opinion) and missed his point by the mile?
I have no clue if Karan Johar is a hypocrite or not for I don’t follow his shows or speeches or written word.
But the statement that being gay isn’t illegal and only engaging in sexual gay acts are illegal is worthy of intense contempt (IMO) if not mockery.
AND it is quite true that Ramit set a certain tone in his responses. Do you believe that no other person other than Anu Warrier has the right to mock Ramit because Ramit has addressed only Anu in his combative comment? Ok. I will refrain from mocking this guy and stick to objectively explaining why his comment is worthy of all the contempt in the world (in my opinion, of course).
I am not addressing Mr.Ramit. I am only addressing his sentiment which you seem to share and adjudge valid.
So when Karan Johar’s book came out I only read a few reviews including Anu Srini’s that I have linked down. Karan seems to be open enough about being gay. Only he refrains from using the word. From another review I got the opinion that Karan admits to not being a virgin. I believe that he mentioned that he felt grateful to this person (his first lover). It appears that he resolutely uses gender neutral terms while taking about these topics.
I am a very pro-gay person. This is not about me being a social justice warrior(though that is what I am), I really am very pro-gay. I would love to live in a world where homosexuality is accepted with the same respect that is usually accorded to hetro-normative relationships. I browse many images in Pinterest where gay men stare at each other’s eyes with the love light in their eyes. It fills me with joy. I wish there are many main-stream college movies that show gay men as protogonists. I once saw two gay men do a perfect ballroom dance in each other’s arms and I cried with joy. I wish that people will not respond to this beauty with ‘chee’ or ‘yuck’ or grin sheepishly or resort to religious texts to camoflage their homophobia.
But so far, I have not mustered the courage to write about this in my own blog. I am afraid of posting these beautiful images in my Whatsapp status to show my actual stance in this though I truly believe these images to be very very beautiful and very very touching. Why? Because that is the intensity of homophobia around us. To find romantic love and to be loved back with the same intensity is such a rare thing. Imagine that even if you manage to find love, you’d have to keep it under wraps forever as people will only react with disgust? The stigma around homosexuality is so intense that even openly saying that I am a cis-person who is pro-gay is not exactly easy for me.
The point about only gay acts and not being gay being illegal in India is a rather disgusting emotion that makes light of the problems of being a gay person in India. Yes, I understand that it is meant as a fact and not as an emotion.
We can’t demand the truth when we have not cultivated an environment that allows for the truth. I understand that gay folks are annoyed with him for not helping them more in reducing the stigma. He is rich, successful, atriculate, famous and he has the pull to begin dialouge about this fight for gay dignity. They may feel he has not done enough. But he has, in his own way, contibuted to the dialouge. Maybe he is not as brave as some gay people would like him to be. But the very fact that he uses gender-neutral terms about his sexuality is a brave act in India. Maybe it is even more difficult for a famous man to come out of his closet than for an office goer.
He is a man who seems to understand India’s pulse. Would he not know when the time is ripe? And until then should Karan Johar just show us his soulmate and inform us that he’d engage in gay-sexual acts in India only after it becomes legal here? What should 2 gay men who are in love do when they want to make sweet love to each other? Get a tourist visa? There is a lot of insensitivity in Ramit’s opinion. Just saying.
https://anusrini20.wordpress.com/2017/01/29/the-unsuitable-boy-is-okay/
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ramitbajaj01
March 8, 2018
Stop playing the women card, ladies. It has nothing to do with that!
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Vivek narain
March 8, 2018
A closed system always increases the entropy, and that is so bad for the glowing skin and soft hands, carefully nurtured with those expensive creams and anti-oxidant foods. The veterans need to grow down and practice selective amnesia to forget all the superior intelligence they acquired in this unfriendly and unkind world. A new age scientist, Lorenzo Maccone, has an interesting theory of entropy decrease.
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brangan
March 8, 2018
Rahini David: This is not done. You just can’t drop a spectacular comment like that — intense, personal, passionately felt, about the topic at hand and also around it, instantly raising the level of the discussion, and politely at that — and then vanish for weeks. I have half a mind to ban you for giving us hope that discussions can be conducted this way and then killing that hope by choosing not to comment. Seriously, though, bravo!
Madan: About my “rare” raps on the knuckle, I’d really rather not do this at all. We are all grown-ups here and used to the Internet by now. Free speech means not just what one says but also how they say it. In an ideal world, things would be just dandy, but unless something is really abusive, I’d rather the concerned people sort it out (or slug it out) between themselves. Hence the “rarity” of my interventions.
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sanjana
March 8, 2018
It is not only about accepting openly. Can he or can anyone make a mainstream film about this with mainstream actors with the usual happy romantic songs and bhangda? Like DDLJ or KKHH? Or a QSQT or Maro Charitra with a sad ending? Can they pass through censors without hiccups? Will they be exhibited in theatres without problems? Can these things happen even if it is decriminalised?
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Madan
March 8, 2018
Rahini: Because in her first response to Ramit, she said she felt like she was being transported to the 18th century, a clear reference to pre Colonial times (it was a Victorian era act which banned homosexual relationships in India. Ergo, she was saying that he was referring to an India that does not exist even though what he referred to is the extant reality in India. That is a monumental blunder as far as I am concerned. You wanna stand up for her, your prerogative.
Regarding mocking, I already said everyone has the right to say whatever they want. I ventured to suggest that arguments could be made without expressing contempt or anger which only reveal weakness as much as it may make the venter feel superior temporarily. After all, the discussion escalated because Ramit responded very unreasonably to a polite comment by Anu. If you have a problem with Ramit’s behaviour, you necessarily should have a problem with Ole’s too and if you don’t have any either way, there’s nothing to discuss on that account.
Now, as to whether KJ’s position is valid, again, whether he wants to come out or not is his prerogative. But equally it is the prerogative of every person, be they celebrity or not, to reveal or not to reveal their private matters in public. It is unreasonable of him to mock others for not sharing and hypocritical in turn when he won’t come out. I understand fully that it is difficult but people have come out in difficult times too,like Navratilova. Rob Halford coming out in the biggest bastion of masculinity in music, metal, was so empowering for those in the metal world who like him were gay. I do believe KJ could greatly help the cause if he in his position came out. It’s fine if he doesn’t want to but then don’t mock those who likewise may have their own reasons for not wanting to reveal their personal affairs. If anything, promoting a culture where film personalities are expected to overshare is irresponsible. Shashi Kapoor simply refused to discuss Jennifer’s death in interviews, saying he wished to keep it personal. Is SK supposedly a hypocrite in KJ’s estimation for being in the limelight and yet keeping his personal life separate? If so, what does that make KJ himself?
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Madan
March 8, 2018
@ sanjana: Kapoor & Sons was not like DDLJ/Ek Duje Ke Life (but is anything anymore?) but it did 150 crores at the box office. It has Fawad Khan playing a gay who is found out by his mother upon which he admits it. It also happened to be a Dharma Productions film. The film was screened without incident. Honestly I think we are in a don’t speak/don’t see phase where it is being tacitly condoned and if some pressure is brought to bear, even homosexual relationships could be legalised. Experts opined that this is already the case as a natural consequence of the Supreme Court’s privacy judgment. It is ironic that a Pakistani actor is required to play a gay in a Hindi film, risking censure in his country but the producer of said film would prefer to keep it under wraps. Not surprising though, mostly our film industry is wimpy when it comes to taking a stance, unless it involves siding with the ruling party! And not for a minute am I saying that there aren’t problems here in India. But as was said of the media during the emergency, when the film industry is asked to bend, it crawls.
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Sifter
March 8, 2018
@ ramitbajaj01- Stop playing the women card, ladies. It has nothing to do with that!
I kinda agreed with you on your initial comment. That quickly changed with the tone of your comments further ahead here. And now that one most trusted comment/insult that most men so gleefully fling at a woman.
We are all ashes now!
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Madan
March 8, 2018
@ Sifter Agreed, this is a blog thread. Ain’t nobody playing card games here.
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ramitbajaj01
March 8, 2018
“He is a man who seems to understand India’s pulse. Would he not know when the time is ripe?”
I am not saying he should do it now, or when. All I am saying is that if he is choosing not to talk about certain aspects of his life, others can choose the same.
“What should 2 gay men who are in love do when they want to make sweet love to each other? Get a tourist visa?”
I am not saying gay people should not have sex. I don’t support the law against homosexuality. In fact, in one of the above comments, I said ‘Hopefully, that [law] shall be removed by the end of this year.’, thereby underlying where my emotions lie. Hence, there was no need to read emotions into my factual statement.
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ramitbajaj01
March 8, 2018
“And now that one most trusted comment/insult that most men so gleefully fling at a woman.”
Ole said I was getting flustered because women were talking back to me. But it had nothing to do with women.
Anu said Madan called out sneering because women were doing it. But I think his comments were gender neutral.
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Anu Warrier
March 8, 2018
@ramit – I dithered over whether to respond because you had oh-so-cleverly made a very pointed statement in your personal attack against me – about my ‘obsessive compulsive desire to have the last word’. That charge was designed to shut me up, because if i defended myself, I would validate that charge. But you know what? At this point, I give a damn.
Just to continue to ‘school you’ (yes, my ‘shameless desire’ to teach continues) – ‘S/he made me do it’ is a defence that didn’t fly when I was a kid in primary school. It is not a defence that stands up in court either. No, I didn’t ‘make’ you do anything – you were rude and hostile because you wanted to be rude and hostile. This is not a verbal encounter where something is said in the heat of the moment. This is a written response, and you could have made your point without the snark.
So. You were snarky, I called it out, you went on a full blown personal attack.
I decided to ignore it because I didn’t want to validate you. Then, olemisstarana made a hyperbolic (but not rude!) remark in response to your ‘legally gay’ statement. She got called on it by not only you, but two other male posters who felt it incumbent upon them to show her the error of her ways. You told her to ‘grow up’.
So in my response to Madan, I wondered whether it was only women who couldn’t be snarky – because I didn’t see him pull you up for your snark in your first response to me or your unwarranted (but, oh, provoked-by-my-shameless-and-obsessive-compulsive-desires) attack against me. That is not playing the ‘women card’. That is pointing out the double standard. So, accusing ‘ladies’ of ‘playing the woman card’ is a great way to belittle a genuine point of view, and throw mud on our credibility.
And your defence was you love opinionated woman. Sure you do. As long as those opinions complement yours. Otherwise, we are ‘schooling you’ or ‘wanting to have the last word’ or need to ‘grow up’. At the very least, we need to ‘stop playing the woman card’.
Sneering is an emotional reaction. In the course of discussion, it’s a hollow statement. On the other hand, criticism, however harsh or personal it might be, can still be refuted with logical arguments.
I am setting up my irony board here. I love that you give gyan to Olemiss on how to react with ‘logical arguments’, but when it came to yourself, a discussion, not even a criticism, led you to a rude, personal attack.
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Anu Warrier
March 8, 2018
Madan, fair enough. But then, by your own statement to Rahini, if you felt the need to remonstrate with Olemiss, then you should have called out Ramit as well. No? In fact, Olemiss’s statement may be wildly hyperbolic (in order to make her point) but she was not rude nor hostile. His remark to me was the more egregious, wasn’t it? Yet, that was ignored.
I agree that discussions derail because of incivility. Sneering and personal attacks have never elevated a discussion. But if you are calling out the one, shouldn’t you be calling out the other? Again, to be fair, while you and I have argued heatedly before, I have never seen you be rude. But then, neither have I. Ever. I’m unfailingly civil even when I get all hot under the collar. Especially then, because I bend over backwards to ensure that I don’t make it about the person.
But thank you for explaining the ‘why’ of what you did, and for saying – at least – that Ramit’s remark to me was unreasonable. That means much.
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Anu Warrier
March 8, 2018
Rahini, much respect. That was a beautiful, powerful statement. standing applause
Sifter – yeah, right? 🙂
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sanjana
March 8, 2018
Kapoor and Sons was somewhat like a hollywood film with bollywood touch. High end multiplex film which had a great starcast. Yes, it was an accepted film.
Due to internet exposure and also due to Oscar winning foreign films, a section of the public is able to empathise and understand. And the much trolled Kjo also helped by being everywhere and throwing hints. Recently Padmaavat also had a character besotted with Khilji.
And most important thing is that there are many ordinary and not so ordinary people who have this preference and they are quietly going about with it.
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Madan
March 8, 2018
Anu Warrier: I reiterate, the only reason I didn’t step in is BR had already done so and I presumed that was that. Would I have done it differently another time? Absolutely. Yeah, I try to keep it civil and have found you to be civil too. I didn’t understand where Ramit’s comment came from to be honest.
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Madan
March 8, 2018
@ sanjana Yeah, the Malik Khafur character though that was to some extent dictated by the legend (he’s believed to have been a eunuch). I would say SLB’s treatment was to make it not so obvious but I do appreciate he left the hints in a historical while also showing Khafur to be a fearsome warrior (albeit on the enemy side). In the metros, I find even some conservative people have become at least apathetic to homosexuality, like in a not-my-business way. Hopefully the acceptance grows.
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MANK
March 8, 2018
I hate getting into altercations and hate seeing altercations on this blog especially ones that involves personal jabs. I always ignore or refuse to engage with comments that are directed at me that are cantankerous in nature.. I have known Anu for quite sometime now here, she is tough, emotional, passionate , but always fair and reasonable . i never felt she is obsessed about teaching or having the last word, i just call her very passionate about her subject matter. Ramit’s personal attack against her was unwarranted ,without any provocation and very surprising because Ramit himself has been a reasonable commenter here . i have never seen (atleast from my memory) being unnecessarily aggressive like this..This whole fracas could have been avoided.
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ramitbajaj01
March 8, 2018
@Anu-
In your first response to me here, u said “Life is not the movies anyway.”. You have done it on other threads as well- considering urself all too self-important and passing sermons. Maybe here it was just mild, but I had carried the spiteful baggage from other threads. You very seriously go about ‘teaching’ people on most threads. I find it very repelling. It has nothing to do with women or men or anyone in general. It is just about you.
And then we had exchanged just one set of interaction, when you explained your point and said, “let’s leave it at that, shall we?”. It was like asking the other person (indirectly) not to continue with the debate. But the thing is if you want to discontinue a discussion, you are not supposed to make your point at that time and then ask the other person to leave it at that. Rather, have the guts to not explain your point and just ask to agree to disagree. Again, you do it on all the threads- first yourself jumping into the discussion with someone, trying to teach them and then asking them to (indirectly) not to comment. This is unfair.
And then you also had the gumption to admit that you were trying to change my views. How preposterous is that!.I never see you just making your point and step out.
And I stand by my observation that you have obsessive compulsive desire to have the last word. You keep on adding explanation after explanation when no one is asking.
All this has nothing to do with any group of people. It is just against u, Anu.
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olemisstarana
March 8, 2018
@Madan – I doubt I can add much here, thanks to the time difference commentators better than me have made my point for me several times. A few words then… yes, I do tend to use hyperbole and delve into absurdity at times because that seems to be the only way to address commentators like ramitbajaj01 who react the way they do to Anu Warrier. I do also use profanity at times, as in the response to our non-sequitur in chief whose comments I usually take great pains to not read. Sometimes though, I am tired of being moderate and feel like the only way to call out the nude emperor is to run around the town square with my hair on fire. Which is alright, imo – and in this thread I really did not even say what I really felt was necessary to call out ramitbajaj01. Anu does not need me to step in for her, but this was ridiculous – BR stepping in like a teacher saying write a hundred lines and make up.
I also do not particularly care if people choose not to respond to my incendiary and confrontational comments as long as it makes them acknowledge the fact, even if in passing, even if for a split second that the blithe nonsense they drop – if it is commenting on the makeup, demeanor and attire of funeral attendees (looking at you, @MANK), or the absurdity of the Indian legal system with regards to homosexuality (being gay is okay, just BEING gay is not, so it’s okay, lets have everyone wear their gayness on their sleeve and take one on the chin for the cause) – won’t just disappear into the ether of “I’m just saying.” Grow a thicker skin, I suppose – we women (holy mackerel, call the MRA hotline everyone) deal with a LOT more than this.
@ramitbajaj01 – “Sneering is an emotional reaction. In the course of discussion, it’s a hollow statement. On the other hand, criticism, however harsh or personal it might be, can still be refuted with logical arguments.”
Coming from you, that’s rich.
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Anu Warrier
March 8, 2018
And I stand by my observation that you have obsessive compulsive desire to have the last word. You keep on adding explanation after explanation when no one is asking.
🙂 Of course. Why don’t I just learn to shut up?
Who [redacted] are you to decide when I should comment, what I should comment, what I should explain, and when I should stop explaining? Don’t like my comments or my sermonising or my teaching/schooling/playing the woman card – you can see my name against my comment – scroll on.
Don’t want to leave a discussion when I say, ‘let’s leave it at that’ or ‘Let’s agree to disagree.’? Don’t. Explain why you don’t want to leave it at that. Debate what I said, disagree vehemently with what I wrote. How the hell can I stop anyone from continuing a discussion in a public space?
Yes, I have gumption – I have the gumption to disagree with someone. I have the gumption to tell them that directly. I have the gumption to say ‘I cannot change anyone’s views’ when I feel I’m not getting my point across because many a time, I have found my views changing when someone gives me a new perspective. And I assume that someone can find something of value in my point of view. That is not a crime. I have the gumption to make my point civilly and without making a personal attack however mad I get, or however emotionally involved I am. Yes, I have gumption, and no, that’s not preposterous. Even if you find it so.
I’m glad you had the gumption to admit it was personal. And I hope you will also have the gumption to not hide behind ‘You made me do it.’ Your spiteful baggage is yours. Own it.
I would apogise for not being the particular kind of opinionated women you like, but I don’t give a rat’s patootie whether you find me repellent or not.
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Vivek narain
March 8, 2018
Life eats life till the strongest and most piggish life is left ~Jack London. Like in Skyfall
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Madan
March 8, 2018
“the absurdity of the Indian legal system with regards to homosexuality ” – Again you miss the point which is simply that it is not illegal to come out and hence KJ can if he wishes to. There were a lot of things ramitbajaj said to Anu where he was clearly out of line but I have no idea how you managed to turn THIS point into a subject of outrage. Yes, the laws are absurd in India (and homosexuality is but one example of said absurdity), so it would help a lot if people in a position of privilege chose to do something about it instead of being concerned about box office returns and public image.
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Madan
March 8, 2018
“. But the thing is if you want to discontinue a discussion, you are not supposed to make your point at that time and then ask the other person to leave it at that. Rather, have the guts to not explain your point and just ask to agree to disagree.” – What is this rule? I am not familiar with any such and don’t know why it upsets you so much. People say they agree to disagree when they realise the differences cannot be reconciled and would rather sign off on a cordial note than escalate the argument further. So Anu was trying to part amicably (she said as much too, that she doubted she was going to change your views hence wanted to leave it at that) and for some reason you chose to take offence to the fact that she wasn’t going to spar further with you. Sounds like YOU were rather anxious to have the last word and angry that Anu seemingly deprived you of it.
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MANK
March 8, 2018
. if it is commenting on the makeup, demeanor and attire of funeral attendees (looking at you, @MANK)
I suggest that you reread my comments on that thread again and I mean ‘my’ comments. That’s all I will say about this
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MANK
March 8, 2018
And as for – makes them acknowledge the fact, even if in passing, even if for a split second that the blithe nonsense they drop –
Well you should give complete strangers like me whom you know nothing about , some leeway as to perhaps they know a little more than you about the people they’re talking about or the industry they’re talking about before mocking them , sneering at them or whatever.
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ramitbajaj01
March 9, 2018
I have no problem with opinionated or contrarian women. None whatsoever.
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therag
March 9, 2018
Hmm, I seem to remember that the same people who are claiming they were rudely responded to were throwing barbs in that Ansari thread against me and a couple of other commenters who had the undesired task of defending him. Oh but I suppose that is excused because they were fighting the “good fight” against us wicked misogynists…
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Anu Warrier
March 9, 2018
@therag – no, I didn’t throw barbs. I stated – clearly and directly and civilly what I found appalling about your posts and your point of view. Yes, we were fighting the good fight against misogyny. Thank you for understanding that.
@Madan – thank you for that.
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sanjana
March 9, 2018
I did not go through this interview. I prefer written interviews to video ones. I got the points by going through comments and discussions. Kjo must be feeling like one muni who loves creating rifts and enjoys them.
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sanjana
March 9, 2018
It is somewhat difficult not to hurt someone while writing something. Even liking a comment may hurt someone.
This happened on a large scale when Padmaavat supposedly hurt feelings of a section.
Sometimes we react, sometimes we let go. It depends.
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anon
March 9, 2018
@ramit You might want to think about why you find Anu repellent and consider if your response was ruder than necessary. I’m not saying this is necessarily the case with you but a lot of misogyny is so ingrained that men that consider themselves liberal, feminist, progressive, gender neutral whatever will still react differently to the same things said by a woman v/s a man.
This bit I’m gonna talk about is not about you, but to a larger point. I see this all the time while driving in Chennai. As soon they see I’m a woman their reaction becomes magnified. It is not a conscious decision – it is sub conscious. My inferiority is so ingrained in them that they can’t help but react that way. The other day, I had stopped behind a bus at a red light. Not enough space between the bus and my car but a two wheeler still tried to get through and scraped my car. (keep in mind, both bus and I are stationary – car engine off). I peep out and tell him he’s scraped my car and his response is this: “Thevidiya! Yesdi edam vidala? Pee thunriya, soru thunriya?” This is not the best example, cos he may have reacted similarly to a guy but there have been a 1000 times when it was definitely cos I am a woman. I’m just lazy to type it all out. Sometimes, it is all soooooo tiring. Day in day out same thing every day all around. Sigh.
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ramitbajaj01
March 9, 2018
@therag. This is exactly what my point was. Anu is an elite troll on this blog. She has been hostile to so many people here. Infact, she is the common factor in almost all of the personal, heated debates on this blog. Writing is a skill. Most of us do not have it. But she is quite adept at it. And she likes to pick on things that we said in passing, or very much in some context. Unlike Rahini, she would never give us the benefit of doubt. But that’s okay. It helps us in honing our skill. But she takes every thing personally. Even if we r replying to someone else, or making a general comment, she feels it her duty to get involved thoroughly and till the end.
I hope to be more regular on this blog (except this week, I wasn’t much active here). But the presence of Anu repels me from this blog. Not just how she replies to me, but also how she replies to others. Sure this is my problem. And I can choose to not follow this blog in detail if it so bothers me. But I don’t want to run away without making my point. Becasue we never know the situation might improve. (sure, if not her, anyone else’s comments would bother me provided I develop a thick skin, but hers is the most consistent one here. So wanted to call her out).
Punee’s comments might have been attention seeking at times, but hers were sweet comments. And she was never hostile. Anu jumped down her throat.
Amit Joki’s comments might have been immature at times. But his intentions were always at the right place. And he was so young. Anu shouldn’t have dissected his each and every sentence in detail. He needed space.
Madan (if i remember correctly) was making a contextual statement about a man from a certain environment in his HDDCS comment. He was unnecessarily given hostile treatment at that time.
Anu and Ole have accused many people here of passing misogynist comments. But the thing is they unnecessarily make everything about women. Most people here really respect women. If anything needs to be pointed out, it can be said without hostility (this is the only thread where i was hostile, and I won’t be making personal comments after this week. Like I never have earlier.)
Sure, most parts of Anu’s most comments are very wise, practical and a treat to read. But she unnecessarily makes everything personal. She is like the self-appointed headmistress of the blog. I just wish she won’t make assumptions about others’ intent and give them space. Thanks.
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therag
March 9, 2018
@Anu Warrier, Oh I think you crossed that “civil” line comfortably. You were careful to couch it in language that appeared toothless, and from what I know you were/are a journalist so I am not surprised. The fact that you can phrase your insults intelligently does not set you apart from the commenter above who you allege was impolite in his/her replies.
Of course, it is par for the course in an internet board such as this one. But then this entire discussion here is because of a reply that ostensibly offended you. If I remember correct, you were pretty confrontational, belligerent even, in that thread, swooping around attacking anyone with a contrarian opinion. Seen in that light, you have no right to be complain about rude/confrontational replies.
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bala
March 9, 2018
I used to visit BR’s blog once in a while, as i thought it was about intellectuals discussing about artwork. Now I visit more often, because i have realized that it is small minded people fighting over petty egotistic issues, which is more interesting and addictive to read, for fellow small minds like me..
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anon
March 9, 2018
@Anu, I think some of the men here find some of the things you or Olemiss say to be over the top because it is from a first world feminist place. We haven’t even been through the first wave yet, so it will seem too much to them. I’m not being presumptuous, I swear. Maybe we need to have Brangan board women’s chatroom. Do you guys hang out at Rahini’s blog? Is that where you’re all at? I’ll come hang out.
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Srinivas R
March 9, 2018
I haven’t gone read through all the comments but will put my hand up for not calling out Ramit’s initial spiteful comment, which I should have. I responded only because I thought the comment from Olemiss suggested she misunderstood what ramit said. I didn’t find his comments even remotely ant-gay, but the first comment from Olemiss seemed to imply that. May be I misread and was clarifying that what ramit stated was the actual fact and not an emotion.
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edwardssammy
March 9, 2018
As Rodney King so eloquently put it, ‘Can’t we all get along?’ I hate seeing this blog space becoming a place for petty squabbles like the rest of the Internet.
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Madan
March 9, 2018
@ramit: Sorry man, I have gone through the sequence of your back and forth with Anu Warrier and it escalated because you misunderstood what it means to agree to disagree. If you say she doesn’t ever give you benefit of doubt with regard to intent, surely that applies to you to here? You could have accepted the conciliatory gesture and moved on. Generally speaking, what is rude, even without hostile language, is to force someone into an argument they don’t want. She has the right to disengage from an argument. Now if you or anybody else want out of an argument and she drags you back, by all means call her out on it. Fair is fair. I have no memory of the HDDCS thread, but thanks for the support. And don’t worry about language. Keeping cool in an argument and not biting the bait slays all. If you get time to, do watch Jordan Peterson being interviewed by Cathy Newman and how he steadfastly avoids the bait and eventually traps her instead. I don’t necessarily agree with everything he says but that was masterfully handled.
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ramitbajaj01
March 9, 2018
@Madan, thanks. I’ll check that out. And that agree to disagree thing was anyway just secondary. My main emphasis is different.
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Vivek narain
March 9, 2018
@esammy, Most of the internet is ghost town, blogs and threads with zero comments. BR,s blog is quite a lively square. And if one abides by 3 conditions he can survive like a cur, and these are: 1 Never give a hint of misogyny even for the sake of artiness 2 Never be flippant or indulge in flowery language, for there are veterans who can’t imagine the possibility of even older veterans 3 Never expect women to be reticent, rather be prepared for feminine caprice.
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Anu Warrier
March 9, 2018
therag – if I remember right about the thread you refer to, yes, I did criticise the misogynistic opinions there. Yet, I didn’t make One. Single. Personal. Attack. In other words, I attacked the views, not the person. You don’t see a difference? No, I suppose you do not.
p.s. I recall I repeated someone else’s remark to you about not dating women if that is the attitude you held – yes, that crossed the line into the personal, and for that, I apologise.
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Anu Warrier
March 9, 2018
Ramit, is it because Madan defended me on this thread that you felt the need to fire off his shoulders? I don’t recall the HDDCS comment over which I had an altercation with Madan, but I’ve had very passionate disagreements with him about the US election (as well as with Anuja on the same thread) because I was very raw at the time. Also, on the Ansari thread. And perhaps on some others as well, I can’t recall. Haven’t seen either of us descend into the personal attack even then.
I am sure Madan and I will butt heads again – he has his blind spots and I have mine, and when they clash, we will, too. Obviously, he doesn’t mind, since he doesn’t seem to think I’m half the things you have accused me of being.
Re. Amit and Punee – again, I have been vocal against certain attitudes they hold, not against either of them. In fact, Punee and I made up on the ADHM thread, prompting MANK to tell us we were the next BFFs. It might be too much for you to take in, but the fact is, I can disagree violently with someone’s statements on one thread and equally passionately agree with them on another.
But that is because I don’t carry the baggage of an interaction from one day to another, one column to another. You seem to be doing so on behalf of other people – because I don’t recall my having responded to you on any other thread!
This post seems to be your way of getting back at me for sins of omission and commission – because in Every. Single. Post you made here, you have put in a personal attack. Not against what I wrote but against me as a person. A person whom you don’t know. And your problem seems to be that I have opinions or that I express them forcefully against other people!.
Dude, I can’t do anything about that.
You hate me, I get that. I fail to understand why my being on this blog should repel you from the blog. It is not as if either BR or I or even WordPress is forcing you to read my comments.
As I said earlier, my name is associated with my comments – see that, scroll past.
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Anu Warrier
March 9, 2018
@anon – no worries.
@Srinivas – I get where you were coming from.
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ramitbajaj01
March 9, 2018
I don’t have problems against ur opinions or their expression. I only have problems against ur hostility, which, of course, I am guilty of too here, but ur hostility sprawls over different threads and towards different people, which has derailed many discussions many times.
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Madan
March 9, 2018
“You seem to be doing so on behalf of other people – because I don’t recall my having responded to you on any other thread!” – Indeed, lot of pent up anger finding its way into this thread. I have never seen ramitbajaj address anybody this way in any thread before but maybe I missed it?
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Doba
March 9, 2018
Rahini, What a moving post.
I am almost hesitating to share this because I am not very good at writing and struggle to convey exactly what I mean. But I will try…
A few years ago, a nineteen year old student (a wise old soul) confided in me that he was gay. He made me realise that being gay is more than being able to carry out gay acts. I don’t know exactly how to convey this. He spoke of a deeply troubled childhood where he did not have anyone to discuss his confusion about his sexuality, about the isolation from friends and the fear of disappointing his parents. When he came out (at nineteen), he found his identity despite losing family support. I think some of these issues are universal. I can imagine these difficulties even in countries where the laws are not as absurd and unfair as ours. It maybe a battle of the courts but it is really a battle of the minds and hearts. Now we don’t have armies or money to fight this battle. Like you write so eloquently, we can only win this battle with patient hearing and understanding. People have a real fear of the unfamiliar. We could change that with our arts and culture by showing the beauty of love in its various forms.
Regarding, Karan Johar, I am sure he has come out to all his near and dear ones and those are the ones who matter. He is a businessman who is responsible for a company and does not want to be an activist. I think that is fair.
Regarding my student… I wish I could say that I shared some wisdom and helped him in some way. But I didn’t. I did not know what to say or how to help. But thankfully, the boy is strong and didn’t need it after all. I am happy to share that he went on to represent India as Mr. Gay India. Sometimes real life does give us its happy endings (or new beginnings 🙂 )
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olemisstarana
March 10, 2018
@Madan – India undid a 2009 law in 2016 – essentially turning back the clock on LBTQ rights. Do you really think times are encouraging for LGBTQ people to come out on public stages and declare their sexuality? You cannot even report a hate crime perpetrated against this population because by definition, if an LGBTQ person simply chooses to practically be and not merely exist on paper as one, s/he is already a criminal. Sting operations have been set up to entrap people. God even having to write this out is so dispiriting. I worked for a bit in the Delhi offices of a fashion magazine that shall remain unnamed and the discourse behind the scenes about at least two designers and one renowned actor who were rumored to not be heterosexual was nauseating to say the least. And this was a Western big time fashion mag for heaven’s sake.
“Again you miss the point which is simply that it is not illegal to come out and hence KJ can if he wishes to.”
Am I really missing your point? You seem to be capable of appreciating nuance, given many of your comments on this blog, but is it really a question of “KJ can if he wishes to.”? It is not illegal, yes. He can come out if he wants to, yes. But can I gently persuade you here to acknowledge that this is not the same as Ranbir Kapoor saying he’s dating Katrina or Salman saying he’s picked his Eastern European flavor du jour. It just isn’t. How do you know if his mother is comfortable or not with this part of his personal life being in the tabloids? How do you know if some minister isn’t going to suddenly make it a cause and have his movies banned for whatever trumped up reason? How do you know if he won’t be egged or attacked on the street? Rahini wrote about this in her comment with empathy and compassion, and I will refer you back to her as well.
“Yes, the laws are absurd in India (and homosexuality is but one example of said absurdity), so it would help a lot if people in a position of privilege chose to do something about it instead of being concerned about box office returns and public image.”
Uh uhh. Spoken like someone who truly does not appreciate the privilege cis/straight people take for granted. Karan Johar does not have to come out if Karan Johar doesn’t want to. Period.
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olemisstarana
March 10, 2018
@MANK – yeah I did. Clapback on the relevant post.
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olemisstarana
March 10, 2018
@anon – hey. I don’t usually comment anywhere else on the webz (haha, lucky BR). I save it ALL for here. I don’t know about Brangan board women’s chatroom – lol, it might just pave the way for the irritated and attacked menz to tell us to go cackle over there and also make them a sandwich while we are at it. I’ll hang out on Rahini’s blog… actually, I lurk intermittently there.
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blurb
March 10, 2018
I don’t know much about the book, neither have I given much thought to whether KJo should have come out. But, I am reminded of the dialogue from Dear Zindagi. (my hindi is awful)
AB: Did you go to therapy so that you could tell the world that you were gay?
Actor: No, I went to therapy so that I could tell myself that I was gay.
Also, you have started a trend, Anu Warrier. You have brought elitism to trolling 😀 If I were not done with my thesis yet, you’d be my case study 😉
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Anu Warrier
March 10, 2018
Blurb, LOL. Sorry. Appeared too late for you, did I? 🙂 It was rather interesting (academically) to see what insult he would come up with, in his next post. I must confess that ‘elite troll’ was rather unexpected.
Doba, I’m sure just lending him a safe place to speak his truth was something he appreciated. I still remember a friend fo mine – way back when – confessing to me that he was gay; he was apprehensive about my reaction. I was a kid myself, and like you, didn’t know what to do to support him. Other than affirming my friendship. Glad to say he’s still a very close friend.
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Madan
March 10, 2018
” Spoken like someone who truly does not appreciate the privilege cis/straight people take for granted. Karan Johar does not have to come out if Karan Johar doesn’t want to. ” – Uh huh, sure thing, I am more privileged than Karan Johar, the son of a film producer and who is himself running a very successful production house and has succeeded at the BO with every film he made. Could it perhaps, perhaps be possible he is so worried about losing all this rolling wealth that he would rather keep it a secret. Yes, he can bloody well do what he wants and he should also bloody well not taunt others for doing what they want because that, ya know, is THEIR business. He whines that he doesn’t get taken seriously because he is there everywhere and always sharing unlike apparently those directors who do get taken seriously. How does he say that with a straight face when he himself refuses to come out? You are trying to make it out as if I am bullying him to come out and I am not. I am only pointing out his hypocrisy in taking digs at others for not being open when he himself is not, he is merely creating an illusion of being open which sells well in the media. And I am also not interested in discussing AROUND the facts. When ramit stated that homosexual relations are banned in India but not homosexuality itself, he was simply stating a fact. Whether or not that is difficult comes later, it would have helped your argument to first acknowledge what was factual about his argument rather than rolling your eyes at it. Yes, I am sure everyone appreciates that it is not easy to come out in India. And likewise it may not be easy or desirable for everyone to share their private life to the media so KJ would do well to respect those boundaries.
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Madan
March 10, 2018
I mean if we logically extend KJ’s argument, he doesn’t get the respect a Mani Ratnam gets only because Mani is more reticent? I am sure KJ wouldn’t have intended to say that himself but that is the implication of saying he doesn’t get credit because he is so open and all that. That is a bullshit argument.
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brangan
March 10, 2018
What’s being missed here is that Koffee with Karan is a knowingly gossipy show.
There’s a difference between a Stardust-type “scoop” about an actor’s personal life (done with a lot of “investigative journalism” like asking hotel waiters and lobby managers) and what Karan does — which is to ask the person directly, with a wink.
Now, these people are his friends and colleagues and they appear on the show because it’s fun and it’s good for them. And the nature of the show SURELY makes it clear to them that such personal questions will be asked — so they have a choice to not appear, if they do not want to.
All this wink-wink-nudge-nudge is — at least as I see it — a game. Not everyone may be adept at it. Not everyone may be equally comfortable with it. But part of this show’s agenda is to make the guests squirm a bit — not in a malicious way, but in a fun way.
Unlike the Stardust-style scoop, this show does not seek to “reveal” anything the guest does not want to reveal. It’s more like there are already rumours about Virat and Anushka, so Karan asks her, and she deflects the question.
This is far less invasive than Vir Sanghvi (or was it someone else) asking SRK, “Are you bisexual?” in a more serious chat show.
The tone of the show matters a lot.
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Madan
March 10, 2018
@BR: I have no problem with his TV show. For that matter, if anybody volunteers to appear on a show and get interviewed, it’s caveat emptor. You can’t agree to appear on Frankly Speaking and expect compassion from Arnab.
I am only referring to what KJ said here in this interview. Around the 12 minute mark, “I am not in a private industry. I am in a put it all out there industry. I mean, for heaven’s sake, we are all over the place and then we decide to be private? I think that is a bit of a hypocrisy.” I disagree strongly with this and as ramit has pointed out, KJ himself is not able to put literally ALL out there, is he? Maybe using the gay angle was harsh on ramit’s part but it served to bring home the point that for everyone, there are some things that are not desirable to share. So, to KJ, there is NO hypocrisy there. What part of one’s private life one wishes to share to the public is entirely their prerogative. Maybe I feel strongly about this because I am an introvert and feel the media is very harsh in judging introverted personalities. Oh, they are aloof, they are uppity, they are what not? Huh, maybe they are just being themselves? I would have liked some more empathy there from KJ.
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brangan
March 10, 2018
What one says in a conversation like this, i wouldn’t take TOO seriously. When speaking off-the-cuff, one is bound to say things that do not entirely sound right — so I wouldn’t hold someone to what they say in a situation like this. There are many times, I have said things about writing and reviewing that I would word very differently had I had the time to reflect on what I was actually saying.
I’m not offering this as an excuse. Just saying this is how it is.
Had Karan written about this, which is a more deliberate thing (and he well may have), then I would agree with you and say there’s a bit of double standards there. But even then, given the judgement our society holds on non-heteronormative relationships, I would see that less as “hypocrisy” than an understandable hesitancy.
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blurb
March 10, 2018
Also, I don’t think he really follows South Indian movies. Sure, he may have watched MR’s work, but that’s as far as it probably goes. I mean, just look at his body language.. and how he suddenly stammers when asked about movies from the south.. losing eye contact. 🙂 It’s like someone has been asked about something on their resume that they’re not good at.
IMO mentioning only MR’s movies is not enough given the amount of good quality the industry has produced in the recent past.
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Anuja Chandramouli
March 10, 2018
So I take off for a family function and return to BR’s pad only to discover what feels like a not so friendly bout of mud wrestling. ramitbajaj01, like some of the others who rapped you on the knuckles, I am flummoxed as to why you felt the need to launch such a personal attack on the Warrior. It was totally unwarranted and so unlike you!
Regarding your comment on her obsessive compulsive need to get the last word, again I am bemused because most of us like to have the last word don’t we? In fact, when Anu and I had a vehement, strongly worded argument on the Trump thread I remember pulling a somewhat mean-spirited stunt on her to make sure I have the last say in my book at least. Later I realized that the whole thing was regrettable and that I had taken some of her passionate comments said in the heat of the moment on a subject she cares deeply about personally though she did not seem to have intended it that way.
Still the point is I am glad (so so glad) we made nice and have put all that firmly behind us. Which is why I urge you to do the right thing by Anu.
(It is clear that your comments regarding the legal context for homosexuality were misconstrued and I am with Madan on that but again, Olemisstarana’s stand is understandable after that salvo.)
Rahini, does your awesomeness have no limits! You are a class act lady!
Finally, KJo’s show is ridiculous(in fact it is so awful, it makes me think fondly of Simi Garewal though I found her on the pretentious side) and I haven’t watched it in a really long time. When I watch his movies, the melodrama makes me impatient but I am always surprised by how some scenes, certain emotions and the occasional searing insights into relationships leave me soo… moved. But that said, why are we making such a giant fuss over the things he says or doesn’t? Whatever dudes! Sheesh!!
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Madan
March 10, 2018
BR: Fair enough but then KJ is also seasoned enough that I wouldn’t think he would ever be completely unguarded while appearing in public. And he made the point again in a different way when he said he doesn’t get taken seriously because he puts himself out there. A bit of “want to have the cake and eat it too” going on there.
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Madan
March 10, 2018
“I am bemused because most of us like to have the last word don’t we?” – And the internet would collapse and swiftly become boring without that obsession to have the last word. 😉 That US election debate was terrible. I am sure if all three of us could put it behind us, we can here too. As you say, what is being discussed here is far more trivial than that topic. If I recollect, the two of us were angry that liberals were so wrapped up in their echo chamber that they didn’t heed the warnings even after Brexit but which was exactly what Anu Warrier didn’t want to hear at that time. And I can empathise with that (though I didn’t then and should have) because my immediate reaction was to feel very scared for all my relatives living in the USA. I worry even when they come visiting to India, as US citizens. I know, US has a system and rules but we are in an all-bets-are-off zone. Don’t know exactly when this madness will end.
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ramitbajaj01
March 10, 2018
“India undid a 2009 law in 2016”
India undid the 2009 law in 2013. In 2016, the SC chose to reconsider its judgement. In 2017, under the Right to Privacy verdict, the SC upheld the rights of homosexuals too. This year, the SC has constituted a committee to review section 377. So, hopefully, by the end of this year, homosexuality would be decriminalized.
“if an LGBTQ person simply chooses to practically be and not merely exist on paper as one, s/he is already a criminal.”
Gay Pride marches are held frequently in tier 1 and tier 2 cities in the country, and no arrests are ever made (and rightly so). Moreover, there are many openly gay personalities in India- Rohit Bal, Manish Arora, Onir and many more. They r not in jail.
“if his mother is comfortable or not with this part of his personal life being in the tabloids?”
In the AIB roast video, insults/roasts worse than sexual innuendos are thrown at Karan. And his mother is sitting in the front row, laughing (as she should be.). She is fine. Being written about in tabloids is a very old thing. They r past it now. At least, they know this is how things r. In their microcosm, being gay is not a big deal.
“if some minister isn’t going to suddenly make it a cause and have his movies banned for whatever trumped up reason”
But it happens for others too. Rajput pride? Immoral depiction of women (Lipstick..burkha)? The point is- a minister’s outrage can’t be predicted, and filmmakers have smarted with times to know how to deal with the ban and continue speaking their truths. In fact, if a minister’s outrage is predictable then it’s all the more important to outrage him.
“if he won’t be egged or attacked on the street?”
Why would he be on the streets? With the same logic, even cricketers or politicians could be egged or attacked. These people already know that public hatred is no reason not to do their thing.
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sanjana
March 13, 2018
What a thread? A learning experience. Misunderstandings,anger, humour, reasoning and balancing acts all can be seen here. The contributors need a big clap.
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ramitbajaj01
March 14, 2018
I want to apologize to everyone for having created an ugly scene. I wish I had conveyed my points in a non-confrontational way.
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brangan
March 15, 2018
Thank you ramitbajaj01.
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Sev
March 17, 2018
Just wanted to post a comment about KJo. I have detested the man and all he’s stood for for many years. But now, I want to thank him because by normalizing and legitimizing the casting of not-appropriately-charismatic-and-talented-but-well-connected-star-relatives in lead roles and building up the narrative about their impending stardom in the media, he has really dulled the movie scene, and the audience. As a result, an actress with even a tenth of Sridevi or Madhuri or Rekha’s screen presence will soon emerge as a massive star. It is only a matter of time as people in India love mainstream movies too much and while they might not be able to articulate their reasons for loving and creating a star, they know that falling in love with a screen presence and performance in mainstream movies is a matter of instinct, and no amount of schooling can guide or direct that instinct. If that instinct could have been directed, Abhishek Bachchan would have turned into a big star because in the early 2000s, he did have a string of well-received movies. Similarly, Kumar Gaurav in the 80s was pretty decent but the biggest, most enduring stardom was bequeathed to the raw sexiness of Jackie Shroff and droll performances of an Anil Kapoor. I am pretty sure, while Deepika is amazing, part of the audience excitement towards her and its enduring appeal is that even people who were not around in the Madhuri, Sridevi days still respond to and grow to adore the mainstream masala heroine/hero, and among the current crop, only Deepika does it all with style. I’d even venture to say that the reason KAreena, Preity, Rani, Kajol are stars but with a somewhat limited appeal is that they never really mastered the mainstream, masala narratives. By then, Adi Chopra and KJo and their clones had started to sanitize or dull the splendour of such tales too much so that I find most of their movies rather dull after the 2nd repeat viewing. On the other hand, Tezaab or Mr. India or Tridev or Ram Lakhan, I can watch any day, any time. THere has to be something in these stories that draws one in (esp a certain Indian, movie-going audience). Naseer and his ilk (whose talent I respect) can say all they want about the stupidity of the 80s films but some of the best masala movies for me came from the 80s with Jackie, Anil, Vinod KHanna, Sunny etc.And SRK’s stardom was really cemented by the masala movies he starred in like Ram Jaane, Darr, Baazigar. I think it is erroneous to believe that the DDLJs and KKHHs made him a superstar. I believe he was already a big star, and alongside the DDLJs, he also did the Karan Arjuns and Koylas that helped him connect with the masses. When his masala touch started to wane and he become too focused on the KJo-Adi movies is when, I believe, a Salman Khan overtook him to achieve masala movie greatness with Dabangg and all.
PS-I think Alia is fine but she always reminds me of the well-intentioned hero’s sister who has accidentally been put into the heroine’s part. And judging by the middling success she’s had in spite of the ginormous resources that have been used to creating a massive stardom for her, I think there may be many others in the audience who feel the same about Alia as I do. I think KJo has earned far too much money butchering the original masala movies, so the gods of hindi filmdom have decided to even the score by instilling in him an unfailing belief in Alia’s greatness. She is just a ruse the gods have planted to serve KJo his comeuppance.
I apologize for the rant but since this post was already over a 100 comments long, I figured another comment wouldn’t cloud the already crowded space any further.
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sanjana
March 17, 2018
Alia is one of the heroines who lack some qualifications to be true blue masala heroine. Her innocent face evokes sisterly feelings. She cannot convincingly dance with jhatkas. Or dance as gracefully as Ash. She somewhat resembles Jaya Bhaduri in these respects. Both are talented in acting which compensates. She proved it in Udta Punjab and other non kjo films. Just wait for Meghna gulzar’s Raazi.
Jaya Bhaduri has a more Indian face and Alia understandably has somewhat different facial features.
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Madan
March 17, 2018
@ Sev: Interesting and provocative comment. I would say casting was fine in KKHH and Rani Mukherjee was an inspired choice. Actually, other than SOTY, KJ has generally cast well established actors (star offspring as well as outsiders) in lead roles in the films he has directed. Now, Dharma Productions per se is a different ballgame but Fawad Khan in the role of a gay man in Kapoor & Sons was again a risky choice in many ways. I think – and I have done this too – people conflate KJ with the flaws of Adi Chopra’s films. KJ is true to the world HE knows. He unabashedly makes films about (and I would argue for) rich people and their problems. His films do have a lot to say though I may not personally like the way he goes about saying it, finding it too sentimental and unwieldy. It was Adi on the other hand who dressed up regressive beliefs in designer sets and costumes with big, fat wedding songs.
Say if you contrast QSQT with DDLJ, in the latter, the boy bows down to the wishes of the girl’s father who mercifully (for the girl) has a change of heart in the eleventh hour so that they can rehash a Mouna Raagam-esque conclusion, whereas in the former, the lovers bravely defy their warring families. QSQT was very Indian in tone while simultaneously inspiring rebellion against the rules of the traditional Indian parivar. DDLJ is modern in tone but ironically chooses to submit to the parivar.
After DDLJ, Bollywood was never the same and it’s ironic that its supposed commercial zenith left it seemingly permanently neutered and, as you say, sanitised beyond redemption. I think KNPH briefly recaptured the spark. Like QSQT, the story was old as the hills and also didn’t come out quite so well in the more blunt handling of Rakesh Roshan compared to the team of Mansoor Khan/Nasir Hussain/Majrooh. Even so, Hrithik’s charisma in the double role inspired such a craze that SRK panicked. Like Aamir in QSQT, Hrithik too was from film family so it doesn’t necessarily take an outsider to shake up Bollywood with a blockbuster (Rishi Kapoor did it too with Bobby, again a predictable tale with fresh faces). Anyhow, after KNPH, there has been nothing in terms of a blockbuster masala film establishing a new star. The closest was Deepika Padukone’s dream debut in OSO and it’s not surprising she has held sway more than 10 years since the film’s release.
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Rahul
March 19, 2018
Sev, that was one hell of a post. It deserves its own “readers write in”. To comprehensively respond to it would probably mean writing a whole treatise on masala elements through 70s to 90s, but I have some observations
At least one major filmmaker who you have referenced to be making those masala movies, Subhash Ghai, is still around. He has been making movies but seems to have either lost his mojo or is unable to make stars . My point is, it is not just the will to make those kind of movies, it was dependent on many factors which are missing today and one cant blame it on metro-sexualization of Bollywood by the likes of Aditya Chopra and Karan Johar
The subjectivity argument is a bit reductive, but nevertheless i think what is masala for you may be bland for someone who grew up with metro-sexual Bollywood. It is not very far fetched to think of a teenager or a twenty something who would wince at having to sit through a Beta or Ram Lakhan but swear by Kuch Kuch Hota Hair and DDLJ.
I doubt a film like Zanjeer would be a middle of the mainstream movie when it was released. It did start a trend that later became mainstream. Similarly the Rahul Rawail Sunny Deol combination that was highly successful in the eighties had hardly the traditional masala elements. Sunny could hardly dance like Anil, Mithun or even a Sanjay Dutt. The movies were very serious with hardly any comic relief. I would argue that his films like Arjun, Dacait, Yateem etc. were successful not because they were traditional masala but they were able to harness his introvert persona and combine it with masala elements to create its own brand of mainstream.In the same way I will argue that Adi and KJo have created their own brand of mainstream.
Mahesh Bhatt was also in my opinion an off mainstream film maker who made his style mainstream. If Bhatt productions is not as successful as it was now its not because Bollywood has been sanitized but because the nephews of Mahesh Bhatt are not a chip off the old block. They try to copy him but I doubt all of them combined are half the film maker that he was.
Hindi cinema audience , with the burgeoning population of metros and the new strategy of creating a 100 crore hit in the first few weekends by monopolizing the screens, is more a ready consumer of the kind of movies that do not belong to a specific place or setting – the kind of frothy entertainment coupled with mega bucks going into promotion that all movie production houses do now. The release schedule is planned so much in advance that if you miss the window then you may not get another chance for a long time so big film makers do not dare to experiment with their mega budget films with new comers. It is not specific to Karan and Adi and it is not because of them .
4.As Madan has also pointed out, the reason Karan makes the films he does is because of the life he has lived. He is probably trying to suck up to the south Bombay coterie that he never felt a part of while growing up as the son of a father who made traditional masala movies. This is not a justification , just an explanation. Similarly it would be interesting to chart out the movie making choices of Adi as compared to his Dad.
Some actors who could have broken out as stars have disappeared. I am thinking of Mohit Ahlawat from James. Dharma products made Agneepath which was a masala movie and a very good one in 80s style. But there are not enough Hritiks to go around. The Siddarth Malhotras. Varun Dhawans and Arjun Kapoors are probably more at home in metro sexual cinema. Auranzeb, which i thought was a good masala movie, tanked at the box office. So I think the audience is also making a decision here. Either they do not like these kind of movies or they do not like the stars of today in these kinds of movies.
Finally, Sev, these are disjointed thoughts and not meant as a counter argument to you or an apologia of Karan. I was trying to make sense to myself, I guess.
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Madan
March 19, 2018
Rahul: To add to what you said about Subhash Ghai, basically the musical/action/comedy hotchpotch that Nasir Hussain and Manmohan Desai had mastered died with them. Masala continued in a manner of speaking with Abbas Mustan or the Barjatya films but the former’s films were incredibly tacky while the latter were really bland (I know it’s all subjective but just making the point that not all of Bollywood masala made for good viewing). Some of them like Ishq or Dhadkan were truly painful. I was glad to see them go. Kundan Shah and Aziz Mirza working with SRK tried to keep a more honest and sincere kind of masala alive but the Adi Chopra model beat it handily. Which I have never understood but that’s what moviegoers wanted.
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sanjana
March 19, 2018
The true blue masala of old world does not work unless it is some Baahubali which cleverly mixed masala with fantasy, capturing the entire Indian population as never before.
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Naveen
March 19, 2018
this is the first BR thread I found boring to read, more ego washing than real content. all said and done KJo is one of the best businessmen in the film industry. hope Dhadak turns out as big as Sairat, at least for Sri’s sake.
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hitesh pillai
April 21, 2018
take a fullday bollywood tour in mumbai film city and stay close to all the gossip and fresh talks about mumbai film city.
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Rahini David
September 6, 2018
Gay sex legal in India.
Just saying. ☺
And grinning.😃
Celebrating.👨👨👦👨❤️👨
Yay. 💐
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