Read the full article on Film Companion, here: http://www.filmcompanion.in/southern-lights-home-schooled-tamil-film-song/
Paying attention to lyrics is a wonderful way to increase one’s proficiency in a language. (Added incentive: It’s fun too.)
These days, a lot of the music I listen to comes from the phone. I just type in the name of a song I feel like listening to. Some days, it’s 1960s music, so I’ll type in, say, Kaatru vaanga ponen. And the clever little YouTube elves take care of the rest, suggesting songs from the same period. Thus it happened that, on a seventies kind of day, I heard this Nizhal Nijamaagiradhu beauty, Ilakkanam maarudho. The film is from 1978, so we’re looking at the last gasp of the MS Viswanathan-Kannadasan era. (The Ilayaraja era was already underway, with 16 Vayadhinile having been released the previous year.) But the song is so fresh, such an exquisite coupling of tune and lyric. (The composer and lyricist would scale another peak in the subsequent year, with their breathtaking soundtrack for Ninaithale Inikkum.)
Anyway, this isn’t about composers and eras. I wanted to talk about the song itself, which is about the gradual mellowing of the disciplinarian heroine. The metaphor used is that of grammar (ilakkanam) turning into literature (ilakkiyam). The first time I heard this song – sometime in school – was the first time I’d encountered these two words, and I must have been humming the song for a while before stumbling on the meanings (maybe my grandfather told me!). And once that happened, the song was never the same again. I could never (and still cannot) listen to a song without listening to the words. Now that I write for a living, I guess the love for beauty and meaning in language (any language) must have always been lurking under my science and maths textbooks – and listening to Ilakkanam maarudho, the other day, made me want to convey my gratitude to the Tamil film song for expanding the scope of the language far more than the teachers at school did.
Let me explain with another gorgeous song from the same film: Kamban yemaandhaan. It’s a second-hand glimpse at some of the things Kambar, the 12th/13th-century poet, said – the fact that he likened women to flowers, that he called them arrow-eyed (ambu vizhi), that he compared them to milk (arunchuvai paal; Kannadasan employed this comparison himself a few years earlier, in Aval oru navarasa naadagam, from Ulagam Suttrum Vaaliban, where a line went “arusuvai nirambiya paal kudam”). I went to an English-medium school. I may have been speaking Tamil at home, but it was casual usage. I might have been reading Tamil newspapers and magazines, but again, this was the time writers like Sujatha and Pattukottai Prabhakar were “cool,” and at least part of this coolness was from the way they de-formalised the language. Film songs were my gateway to a different, more involved kind of Tamil appreciation.
Continued at the link above.
Copyright ©2018 Film Companion.
Madan
March 15, 2018
Very interesting topic. I would distinguish between Hindi and Tamil film music lyrics in the sense that the former often maintained an informal tone while utilising flowery language. In Tamil, there’s colloquial Tamil and illakiya Tamil and the latter’s tone feels kinda Shakespeare-esque. For example, there is a lot of depth in the lyrics of Koi Yeh Kaise Bataye but he is also using “Woh Joh Apna Tha Wahi” whereas proper Hindi would require Wah (वह). Of course, not all Tamil songs use formal vocabulary but in a setting comparable to the Arth song (Ellorukkum sollum paatu), it tends to be a bit more formal than Hindi. To be fair, Vaali himself did a lot to encourage more casual kind of lyrics for which he seems to generally earn calumny from literary types. Still, the insistence on using ondru/irandu rather than onnu/rendu (the colloquial usage) for eg suggests that Tamil lyrics lean to the formal side.
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sanjana
March 15, 2018
Its fun and also makes listening to a song much more interesting. Like this song from Kanyadaan.
Likhe jo khat tujhe
woh teri yaad mein
hazaaron rang ke
nazaare ban gaye
sawera jab huya
to phool ban gaye
jo raat aayi to
sitaare ban gaye
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MANK
March 15, 2018
Nice post Brangan.i would like to say #MeToo. Being a malayali i have learned all other languages mainly through films and songs. And the old malayalam songs made me appreciate the beauty of my own language. by the time i became an avid listener, the malayalam film songs had become very simple with simple lyrics and compositions , except for musical greats like Raveendran, there wasn’t much innovation.so it was a great experience to go back and listen to the works of Vayalar, sreekumaran thampi , Dakshinamoorthy and others
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Anu Warrier
March 15, 2018
Oh, how this resonates. I’m a native Malayalam speaker. I read and write, yet the Malayalam in the lyrics of old songs often confounds me. I have to know the context sometimes to guess at the meaning. (Apart from pulling out trusty Malayalam-English dictionary, of course!)
My husband and I ‘hear’ songs differently – he likes the lyrics, of course, but he can tune out the lyrics to pay attention to the music. For me, once the base melody is something I like, my focus is on the lyrics. I learnt much of my Urdu through old Hindi songs, really. Vayalar, Kaithapram, ONV Kurup, Sahir, Shailendra, Jaan Nisaar Akhtar – these men (and others) were my long-distance tutors in language.
Thank you for this.
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moneesha10
March 15, 2018
Great thoughts sir…..I’ve always been inspired by your writing!!!
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Anu Warrier
March 15, 2018
One of my favourite couplets is by Gulzar:
Patthar ke haveli ko
Sheeshe ke gharondon ne
Tinke ke nasheman tak
Is mod se jaate hain
Am I the only person of a certain vintage who used to have a notebook full of favourite lyrics scribbled down? 🙂
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Pavan
March 15, 2018
I learned Hindi from SRK, got the accent of Amitabh Bachchan. For Tamil, it was Vijay and Kamal Haasan, but I can’t speak it fluently. BTW, MANK, what are the languages you learned and are able to speak with films’ help.
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Kay
March 15, 2018
Even though I love Vairamuthu’s lyrics, I’m absolutely amazed by Thamarai’s. Her songs are a mix of unheard of words and beautiful similes. Unakenna venum sollu from YA is my latest favourite written by her.
‘Ulagennum paramapatham, vizhundha pin uyarvu varum’,
‘Paruvangal Maari Vara,
Varudangal Oodi Vida,
Ezhantha Èn Inimaigalai
Unnil Kandaene
Èzhuthidum Un Viralil
Širithidum Un Èthazhil
Kadantha Èn Kavithaigalai
Kandukøndaene.’
What are songs without the lyrics? That’s one of the reasons why I don’t connect to the songs of other languages. And also, why songs like ‘yevandi unna pethaan’, etc. make me go from 0 to 250 on the rage metre within 10 seconds.
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anusrini20
March 15, 2018
I really enjoyed reading this! I taught myself to read and write Tamil (from Ananda Vikatan!), and lyrics took that further. As someone born in 1990, maybe I can answer your question… 🙂 The new(er) songs just don’t give me as much joy, at least with regard to the words I can learn and store away in corners of my mind. I heard “nithilam” for the first time as it came up in Andhi Mazhai as well. Imagine my pleasure when I met a girl named Nithila many years later, and I knew what that beautiful name meant, because of a film song!
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anusrini20
March 15, 2018
@Anu Warrier: I still do that! 😀 I have also written (love) letters with lyrics that have expressed my feelings in much better ways.
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sanjana
March 15, 2018
One can enjoy melodious songs even if they cant connect to the lyrics. Just like one enjoys instrumental music just for that pleasing sound. Lyrics have more freedom, more space within the ghazal format. One can enjoy gujarati songs, bengali songs(rabindra sangeet) without understanding the lyrics. Also in many other languages within and outside India.
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sanjana
March 15, 2018
For example, how many can understand our national anthem and its meaning? A survey can be held and the results will be interesting.
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Jeyashree
March 15, 2018
I can,like many others will, relate to this post completely… Recollect those days when I used to make my mom explain the lyrics of “pen ondru kanden” and used to me amused about the rhyme in the lyrics…”kaalangalil aval vasantham” ended up in me learning Tamil months and arguing with my mom about which art form is superior….señorita was the first other language word I learnt probably after la belle dame sans merci during school time- courtesy the Tamil song.. and the various accents of Tamil I got introduced to – be it aduthathu ambujam or elanthapazham…..not to mention casual expressions like I broke my head over thunthana that followed ettana and Pathana..
Qawwalis I find very catchy and I felt wow at how at one could use them to God and/or ones live of life..the little of Urdu I have been introduced to is because of the fear of missing out on the complete essence when listening to nusrat fateh ali khan and Farida khanum…
@kay 10 seconds…salute your patience
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Purple Sky
March 15, 2018
This has to be a coincidence. I was today looking at the song lyrics for “pazham thamizh pattizhayum” (from Manichithrathazhu) and was wondering for a few moments at the meaning of the word -izhayum. I tried to get a the contextual meaning and thought that probably I should start reading song lyrics to improve my language. And here it is, hours later an article on the same subject. 🤔🤔🤔
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Shalini
March 15, 2018
Boy, can I relate! As someone who left India at age 8 and forgot how to read and write Hindi within a year of setting foot in the US, the only Hindi/Urdu I speak/understand is of the (old) Hindi Film song kind. 🙂 I don’t remember much about school in India but I couldn’t have asked for more entertaining teachers than Sahir, Shailendra, Neeraj, Majrooh, etc.
“Sometimes, you’ll hear a word and place it roughly (as in, guess an approximate meaning), and then when you hear the same word in a different lyric, the meaning gets refined.”
So true and I love it when a lyricist does that with a word that I think I know fully, like Sahir’s usage of “taazagii” in “sharma na yun” or better yet, Gulzar’s wordplay on “khoob” in “bas ek chup si lagi hai”:
koi anokhi nahi aisi zindagi lekin
khoob na ho
mili jo – khoob mili hai
So brilliant, gives me goosebumps.
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Kay
March 15, 2018
Anu: I used to do that too!! And since we didn’t have Google, I used to buy those lyrics booklets that were published soon after a movie releases. I had hoarded thousands and thousands of them. I’m sure I’ll find some in my parents’ house if I rummage through the storage space.
I had notebooks with the lyrics of all my favourite songs written down.
Jeyasree: I realised it might be actually 2 seconds but I had already posted the comment and couldn’t edit it! 😀
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silverambrosia
March 16, 2018
Loved the piece Brangan, and can relate. My parents did try to make me literate in Urdu, but their efforts were just too sporadic, with the result that that I can read it only haltingly and perusing a novel in it is just too much brainwork. It was really the movies (especially the older ones) that raised my language skills to something a bit beyond purely functional.
“But you can’t pick up a few things about Shakespearean English, say, through an English pop song – because the words, the usage is still contemporary. But because the Indian film song exists in a heightened zone, above the spoken dialogue, it is allowed many liberties with language.”
Totally agree. That slightly elevated poetic sensibility is still present in the lyrics of many contemporary Hindi film songs as well, and that’s the reason why I don’t really feel much disjuncture between how the characters otherwise speak and act throughout the film, and how they express themselves through song for the reason you describe. That convention of adopting a loftier mode of expression through lyrics has always been present in Indian cinema. It’s also extremely common for very pedestrian films (old and new) to have beautiful songs. One wonders why more of the old lyricists didn’t turn into full-fledged script-writers. Maybe writing a whole film is significantly harder than writing just the songs?
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shaviswa
March 16, 2018
you seem to have missed T.Rajendar’s songs. Some of the his songs have brilliant lyrics.
In Pookkal Vidum Thoothu, he has written this song Moongil Kattoram that has amazing lyrics that describe nature
Alaigalil Naatiyam Karai Idhudhaan
Ilaigalil Naatiyam Kilai Idhudhaan
Ivaigalum Aada Iyarkayum Paada
Iraivaa Un Karpanai
Viyakum En Sindhanai
Paadhadhai Vaithaal Pazhangathai Sollum Sarugugaley
Paravayai Paarthaal Manadhinil Mulaikidhu Siragugaley
Moongilkaatroram Kuzhalin Naadham Naan Ketkiraen
Mugilin Oorgoalam Vaanil Nitham Naan Paarkiraen
Kuyiley En Kaadhodu Nee Paada Vaa
Malarey Un Idhazh Kondu Nee Pesa Vaa
Megam Ennu Penn Oruthi
Moagam Konda Nerathiley
Kaatrennum Kaalai Vandhan Thaedi
Kalyanam Nadandhadhadi Koodi
Mazhayoo Petra Pillai
Adhiley Pala Kavidhai
Heyy Malaigalin Melae Aruvi Vizha Ahahaha
Maththalam Pole Oliyum Ezha
Jadhi Adhil Piraka
Nadhi Adhai Rasika
Salangai Pol Nelmani
Kulungum Vayal Pen Mani
Pulveli Melae Panithuli Minnum Vairam
Kadhiravan Vandhu Kalavaadichellum Jaalam
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shaviswa
March 16, 2018
Another brilliant song from TR is this
Vizhigal medaiyyam, Imaigal thiraigalaam
paarvai naadagam, arangil yeralaam
oh..oh..Oh..Oh..Ohho…
Julie I love you,
mai thadavum vizhiyoram
moganamai thinam aadum
mayakkam tharum mannavannin thiru uruvam
mai thadavum vizhiyoram
moganamai thinam aadum
mayakkam tharum mannavannin thiru uruvam
mana veenayile naadam ittu
geetham aakki neendugindra thalaivaa
ithazh Odaiyile vaarthai ennum
pookkalaagi mithakkindra pattaa
ninaivennum kaatriniley
manam ennum kadavaada
thendralena varugai tharum kanavugaley
un ninaivennum kaatriniley
manam ennum kadavaada
thendralena varugai tharum kanavugaley
madhu maalaiyile manjal veyyil kolamena
nenjam athil nee veesa
mana cholayiley vattamidum vasamenna
ullam athil nee ponga
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Aadhy
March 16, 2018
As someone who’s born and raised in the 90s, I must admit I hadn’t paid attention to lyrics until I hit adolescence which was much later in mid 2000s. Also by that time, Tamil cinema lyrics were mostly written to fit the tune which resulted in a lot of filler phrases and words being used unlike earlier times. I used to pick these words up and keep singing them only to be firmly admonished by my parents because the words meant something inappropriate/objectionable.
.I almost never understood Vairamuthu (used to think wtf is a kurukku siruthavale ). Vaali used to be much more fun as he used words like lallaku dol dappi ma, Oh maria fruit cherrya, computer pola confuse aanen and also a song from Kadhala kadhala had words like Madonna, anaconda, pepsi, sexy . In other words, he used to be very much with the current trend which would make the song even more catchier, unlike Vairamuthu ‘s imagery-laden poetry (not saying Vaali didn’t write such songs).
It wasn’t until Na. Muthukumar and Pa.Vijay that I looked into the meaning of the lyrics. But the Tamil they used was quite conversational and relatively easy to understand, while still sounding rich in meaning. So yeah, no home-schooling for me with respect to Tamil. But I must say the little Hindi I know is from the songs. Aazadiyaan from Udaan and Rehna tu from Delhi-6 are two songs whose each and every word I know the meaning to. I have never connected as much to the lyrics of even a Tamil song, being a native Tamil speaker.
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Anu Warrier
March 16, 2018
anusrini – love letters! Yes! 🙂
Ohhh… brings back memories. I always found solace in songs because somehow – somehow! – the lyricists seem to express my mood and emotions better than I could!
And.. Jaayenge kahaan soojhta nahin, chal pade magar raasta nahin
Kya talaash hai kuch pata nahin, bun rahe magar khwaab dam badam could have been the anthem of my misspent youth! Love the idea of weaving dreams even when you don’t know where you’re going, or what you’re seeking.
Kay – I used to buy those lyrics booklets that were published soon after a movie releases. I had hoarded thousands and thousands of them.
You too?! I did that, as well. It used to cost me Re1 each.
Shalini, I see your Gulzar and I raise you Sahir 🙂
Meri baat ka meri humnafaz tu jawab de ki na de mujhe
Teri ek chup mein hain chhupi woh hazaar baaton ki baat hai
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sanjana
March 16, 2018
I am a big fan of vintage telugu film songs too for their lyrics. The beauty of those songs cant be translated.
Samudrala from telugu Devadasu.
Marapurani bhadakanna madhurame ledu
Marapurani bhadakanna madhurame ledu
Gathamu thalachi vagachekanna soukhyameledu
Gathamu thalachi vagachekanna soukhyameledu
Andarani pondukanna andameledu
Aanandame ledu
Cheliyaledu chelimiledu veluthure ledu.
Some can find solace even in suffering and pain.
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sanjana
March 16, 2018
Without melodious tune, a good lyric wont get required appreciation.
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phaneendra201
March 16, 2018
I learned about word ALTAAF from Joh bhi main kehna chahoon song from Rockstar
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Purple Sky
March 16, 2018
In today’s English song, you cant learn anything new. I think, they have come down to the formula that if you have F**k or its equivalent in every other line, the song is a guaranteed hit. The industry has hot the dumps
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Anuja Chandramouli
March 16, 2018
Anu: Like your husband, I tend to tune out the lyrics to disappear into the music, but I do keep notebooks where I write down verses or passages which capture my fancy. Damn! No wonder I keep gravitating to this space…. Sometimes it feels like this is the natural habitat of odd ducks 🙂
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Jeyashree
March 16, 2018
Paimaane from ye Jo halka halka suroor hai
I was smiling when i first heard
Kaam Karti hai nigaah
Naam paimaane Ka
@phaneendra did you mean alfaaz?
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Sifter
March 16, 2018
What a thoughtful write up!
I learnt a lot of Hindi through the song lyrics. And the simple beauty of the lyrics always took my breath away…still does. Just a couple of them:
Razia Sultan/Jan Nissar Akhtar
Jism haatho ki haraarat se pighal jaayega
Aag rag rag me lagaayega
I fell in love with ‘haraarat’ and ‘rag rag me’ without being ‘in love.’ That for me is the magic of lyrics.
Anupama/Kaifi Azmi
Leta hai dil angadaiyan
Is dil ko samajaye koi
Aramaan na aankhe khol de
Rusawa na ho jaaye koi
Palkon ki thandi sej par
Sapnon ki pariyan soti Hain
Ayesi bhi baaten hoti hain
Of course, any song lyric become enchanted by the potent tune it is set to.
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musicofchance
March 16, 2018
@Sifter…. here’s a “haraarat” ad for your listening pleasure
Loving this thread! Natural habitat and all that 🙂
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musicofchance
March 16, 2018
Haha, the person who posted the ad goes by the profile name Khisiyani Billi, likely from the Hindi proverb “Khisiyani billi khamba noche”. The world abounds in wordplay and echoes of the beautiful, if you listen carefully!
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phaneendra201
March 16, 2018
Jayashree – sorry I meant alfaaz
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Vidhya M
March 16, 2018
How true. To add to this (and digress, at the same time), I, who never managed to cross the initial few lessons in Carnatic music, managed to learn a lot of Raaga names (and their significance too at times) from Tamil songs. Just to name a few…
“Idhu kuzhandhai paadum thaalatu – idhu iravu nera Boobalam..” was told this was a song with paradoxes and Boobalam was indeed a morning raga.
“Kadavul vazhum kovilile karpoora deepam – kalai migundha madathile Mugari ragam” – Mugari for sadness
“En padalgalil nee Neelambari…unnai padamale manam thoongadhadi” – Neelambari for inducing sleep / lullaby
“Mohanam padum velayilum…sindhuvil raagam paadinan” – Mohanam for joy
“Keeravani iravile pagalile paada vaa ni” – a delightful song and after wondering for quite some time who Keeravani was in the movie, was told it was a raaga.
Ofcourse – songs like “Oru naal podhuma..” and another gem, “Veenai pozhivudaya vendhane…” whose movie name Im unable to recollect (where Ravanan plays the veena and his court musicians challenge him with each raaga) – which had a lot of explicit raga references
Thodi, Sahana, Sindhubhairavi, Durbar, Sankarabaranam, Lalitha (idhazhil kadhai ezhudhum song where the heroine’s name was Lalitha), Malayamarudham (“mandhamarudham veesutho malayamarudham padutho” – varusham 16), Kalyani, Sriranjani – the list goes on.
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Vidhya M
March 16, 2018
@Shaviswa – Wow, TR wrote amazing lyrics. It could be possible that he wrote his poetry first and then set it to music. Otherwise, how could one explain the flow of – “Vasanthakalangal isaindhu paadungal – pudhumugamana malargale neengal, nadhidhanil aadi, kavi pala paadi asaindhu asaindhu aadungal.”
And ending with the gorgeous “Idhazhkal oorudhadi” – “Idhazh Kall Oorudhadi” wordplay.
Sad that people associate him today only with his Dandanakka danakkunakka….
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Arjun
March 16, 2018
Nice post. ilakkanam maarudho is one of my favorites. The thought being conveyed is simple, in one word, mellowing or kaniththal. But what an exquisite metaphor! Likening it to how grammar becomes literature. Who’s to say how it occurs, what particular phrase or flourish does it? Interestingly when the formal rules of grammar are relaxed in tamil poetry it is called ilakkaNa mayyakkam, roughly “swooning of grammar”.
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silverambrosia
March 16, 2018
A song in a somewhat similar vein to the ‘…bun rahe magar khwaab dam badam’ song mentioned earlier, is ‘Jazba’ from ‘Ladies vs Ricky Bahl’. It has some nice lines which go as follows:
Kaate rehne de, gulab tod le
Neendo ki teniyon se khwab tod le
Khwahishon ki hain kahaaniyaan padi
Chun le kahaniyaan, kitaab jod le
Pheeki hai zindagi toh yaara, parh le dil ka ishaara
Saara badal de nazara, jagale tu jagale jazba
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Arjun
March 16, 2018
Re: andhi mazhai, I like some of the metaphors in the song, but really does the line with the word nithilam really mean? “sippiyil thappiya nithilame ragasiya rathiri puthagame”. It seems so forced. As does “indhira thotaththu munthiriye”. Cashwenut of Indra’s garden? Just doesn’t work for me. Some of Vairamuthu’s imagery is very vivid, think “vaana magaL naanugiral veru udai pooNugirAL” for describing the sunset. But often it comes across as forced and unnatural.
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r5arun
March 17, 2018
Variamuthu is a huge Kamban fan, and that reflects in his songs.
Ithu Kamban paadatha sinthanai,
un kaathodu yaar sonnathu.
Kattazhagu kannathil adikka
Kannukkulle poogambam vedikka
Kamban illai michathai mudikka
Adada adada Adada Adada!
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Ravi K
March 17, 2018
I grew up in the US, and while I know conversational Tamil fairly well, the meanings of songs escaped me, unless the songs were particularly simple. It wasn’t until the DVD era, when subtitles were an option, that I was able to learn what the songs meant. Subtitles are also how I’ve learned a little Hindi.
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Tambi Dude
March 17, 2018
Madan: “In Tamil, there’s colloquial Tamil and illakiya Tamil and the latter’s tone feels kinda Shakespeare-esque. ”
The term you are looking for is diglossic language, which tamil is.
Forget poetry, even formal tamil, as in tamil news is very different than spoken tamil. I don’t particularly take this as a good thing.
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Madan
March 17, 2018
@ Tambi Dude: Thanks. Didn’t realise it was actually a thing. Fascinating that there are a bunch of languages out there where the difference between the vernacular and literary version of the language is so divergent. I used to explain this to my mother, saying this is why I couldn’t completely relate to Tamil lyrics (as opposed to Hindi/English) and she would knock it off attributing it to the fact that I never studied Tamil in school or college. Which makes perfect sense going by the definition of diglossia!
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sanjana
March 17, 2018
Now this diglossia explains why I felt odd listening to those dialogues and the news.
There is a list of languages suffering from this malady including Hindi and Bengali according to wiki.
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Tambi Dude
March 17, 2018
Hindi is definitely not diglossic, unless some one is assuming that Hindustani == Hindi.
Diglossic has nothing to do with colloquial. It is verbal vs written form.
Colloquial hindi (hindustani) is a mixture of urdu and local languages. In Mumbai Batata is considered for aaloo (potato). In Delhi panga is considered a normal hindi. Don’t expect such words in Hindi news.
The Hindi (non urdu words one ) , as in Doordarshan Hindi news is 90%+ same in both written and verbal form. Tamil is very different in written and verbal form. Tamil news is an oral translation of written tamil and that’s why it sounds so different. Try to understand court proceedings in tamil.
I have been told that it is the same in Telugu.
BTW English also has difference in verbal and written form, but to a much lesser extent than tamil.
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sanjana
March 17, 2018
Even I was surprised to find hindi and bengali in that list along with tamil. Telugu(spoken and written) has broadly 3 versions different from one another. For news broadcasts they use coastal andhra telugu. I dont know what is state of affairs in telangana as of now. I am not sure. Let Phaneendra and Pavan join the debate.
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sanjana
March 17, 2018
what is the state of affairs.
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nikkie1602
March 18, 2018
A linguistics student here…diglossia isn’t simply a spoken vs written dichotomy. Diglossia refers to the situation of two varieties of a language which are used in specific conditions by the same community and normally there is an element of prestige or a ‘high’ vs ‘low’ variety at play.
Interestingly, some consider Hindi and Urdu to be the more formal and culture specific registers of the Hindustani language…a somewhat triglossic situation. My professor always dismissed the Hindu-Urdu( the spoken variety) debate as to it depending on whom you ask.
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shaviswa
March 19, 2018
Tamil that is used in TV news is not a different Tamil. It is like a man speaking Cockney calling BBC English as being bookish.
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Naveen
March 19, 2018
how about Junoon Tamil, where does it fit in
an excellent thread, that can draw from everybody’s fist hand experience.
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sanjana
March 19, 2018
As a matter of fact we use a lot of english words and sentences in our daily interactions. The regional language broadcasts literally translate everything(even common words) in their zeal to protect their respective languages. One can classify them as standard, different standard and daily use. There is also a mixed language culture emerging. Hindi, english and regional language mixed and mauled! So much fun! And there are dialects.
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sanjana
March 19, 2018
Dharmendra’s Chupke Chupke where a battle between shuddh hindi and user friendly hindi is the best example of language purity carried to the extremes.
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Madan
March 19, 2018
@ shaviswa: But you can speak the BBC English – without their very propah emphasis and accent – without sounding overly formal for everyday conversation. Because BBC is not literary English, just grammatically correct and delivered by refined hosts. I don’t mean our second hand English. Even during my visit to the US, I didn’t find that everyday English was so diluted as to be boorish or incorrect. Sorry to use the expression but you can speak Brahmana Tamil without being considered boorish and it would still sound different from the news channel Tamil. So the written/official Tamil is in essence very formal in a way that is not the case for many other languages. It’s not the case in Hindi. Forget Bombay/Hyderabad Hindi. The Hindi spoken by an Allahabadi is correct without sounding too formal.
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shaviswa
March 19, 2018
The Hindi I hear on DD news is very different from what is spoken in Hindi movies. And definitely very different from what people at office speak which is very informal.
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Madan
March 19, 2018
@shaviswa: Agreed about DD News but we have drifted away a bit from the original point which was that even lyrics in Tamil songs are closer to Sun Seidhigal than spoken Tamil. While sensibilities may be elevated in ‘good’ Hindi lyrics, the grammar is closer to spoken Hindi. Maybe the Urdu factor makes a difference here. Had Bollywood lyricists used only Sanskritized ‘official’ Hindi, it would sound very different from spoken Hindi.
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shaviswa
March 19, 2018
Cannot really comment about Hindi lyrics. I don’t get a word anyway 🙂
I would still say a lot of songs during Raja’s days – especially the village songs – were conversational Tamizh (Mudhal Mariyadhai for example; or Mundhanai Mudichu). Tamil lyricists resorted to lofty language when they wanted to get philosophical. Or get into the Kamban levels of romantic poetry 🙂
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Sifter
March 23, 2018
@musicofchance- Thanks!
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