Read the full article on Film Companion, here: https://www.filmcompanion.in/baradwaj-rangan-kaala-review-critics-mani-ratnam-twitter-conversations-southern-cinema-bias/
Because it’s impossible to have a proper conversation on Twitter, I imagine a chat with critics of my ‘Kaala’ review and argue why form is important and why ‘Mani Ratnam’ isn’t a bad word.
There may be spoilers ahead if you haven’t seen ‘Kaala’.
So you’re admitting you have biases.
Why don’t we call it ‘preference’ or ‘taste’! After all, we are all shaped partly by DNA, partly upbringing. In other words, nature plus nurture…
Fuck the philosophy! Do you admit you are biased about Mani Ratnam and Kamal Haasan, whose films you keep bringing up in your reviews?
I tend to do that, don’t I? But it’s got to do with the way I approach a review. I almost always refer back to older films. People ask, “Why do you always have to compare? Why can’t you see a film as a standalone product?” But I believe films are part of a continuum. People build on what came before – and even if they don’t, the earlier films are useful to compare/contrast, to say how this one does things differently.
Which is why my Veere Di Wedding review brings up Arth; my October review brings up Pedro Almodóvar’s Talk to Her; my Meyaadha Maan review brings up Guna and Kadhal; my Joker (the one by Raju Murugan) review brings up Shankar. And even with Mani Ratnam films, my Aaydha Ezhuthu review brings up Amores Perros and Heat. If I were to review Thalapathy today, I’d certainly bring up Benegal’s Kalyug, and if I wrote about Mouna Raagam today, I’d surely include a few lines about Mahendran’s Nenjathai Killadhe.
But there are many reviews where there are no callbacks to Mani Ratnam or Kamal Haasan – for instance, my review of Vetrimaaran’s Visaranai, or my review of one of last year’s finest films, Oru Kidayin Karunai Manu. Because there’s no intersection point. Anyway, if I talk about Thalapathy in the Kabali review, I also refer to the Malaysian-Tamil film Jagat and MGR’s Naadodi. Why focus only on the Mani Ratnam reference?
Because you bring up Mani Ratnam and Kamal Haasan more often than others.
How can I not? A lot of films today still draw from the templates or archetypes found in their hugely influential body of work. Besides, when I bring up Sathya in my review of Madras, I also bring up Subramaniyapuram (which, as far as I recall, was directed by Sasikumar). Why focus on just Sathya? I am saying that Ranjith’s “energetic filmmaking dusts the cobwebs off” these templates. Is it possible to write about Kaala without invoking Thalapathy? Of course! I’m just saying this is my style of reviewing.
So you’re saying there is no confirmation bias…
That kind of thing is unconscious, and more for the reader to say. Besides, it’s a question you can ask of many people, not just critics. For instance, if you did not know a song was by Ilayaraja (or Rahman), would you still be finding things to like about it? Is that confirmation bias? Or is it the fact that you’ve studied Ilayaraja enough to know the signatures, and you don’t need the name to recognise his touch.
It’s that way for me, with Mani Ratnam and Kamal Haasan. I’ve written a book about the former. I’ve studied Kamal Haasan’s 1987-2005 work backwards and forwards. I’m cannot be apologetic about this. The point is this: I don’t like Mani Ratnam’s work simply because it’s by Mani Ratnam, but because of the signatures in them…
Continued at the link above.
Copyright ©2018 Film Companion.
Baradwaj Rangan 
sanjana
June 14, 2018
Every reviewer has his or her own style and after a time we know what is in store for a particular film.
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sanjana
June 14, 2018
For example, you give more importance for small details than big picture. When the tone is positive, you are praised. When it is slightly derisive, you are accused of nitpicking. You give more importance to how it is said that what is said. Craft and cinema gets more importance than just story telling and drama. With very bad films, readers agree with your hilarious reviews. Otherwise arguments start pouring in.
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bart
June 14, 2018
Enakku aathirangal varuthu ..BRrrrr…😡😡😡 No reference to Kajal Agarwal again!
Maari’s kuthu music started playing in my head while I was reading the piece.. But I liked the Mani twist at the end..
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Srinivas R
June 14, 2018
You nailed it with the reference to Manikandan interview. One of my favorite interviews. It would be nice if you can talk to Vetrimaran about his film making process, like you did with Manikandan and Karthik Subburaj.
BTW, you failed to address one question. How can you like pretentious, urban, english speaking GVM 🙂
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rsylviana
June 14, 2018
Wow, the twitter flames were so high that you actually had to write a post explaining your stance !?? I didn’t know….
Anyway, people seem to be mistaking you for someone who lets Ranjith’s caste factor in on their assessment of his films . Lets hope this actually drives some sense into them.
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Vivek narain
June 14, 2018
There used to be comparisons with Sean Connery for other bonds but Daniel Craig with his stupendous energy made dust of them.Most things are ephemeral waiting to be superseded.
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abishekspeare
June 14, 2018
off the topic,
i was watching the godfather part 2 today and i noticed something unusual- it had an intermission
i’ve never seen hollywood movies have an intermission, i always thought they were an (indian) tool to make the audience buy more popcorn and watch more advertisements
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Prashila
June 14, 2018
BR, why this piece? It’s pretty depressing having to read you explain yourself so earnestly. People who genuinely want to read what you write KNOW every single word of this, don’t they.
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Jaga_Jaga
June 14, 2018
I was nearly disappointed when in your list of favorite Directors you had Maniratnam, Mysskin and Subbaraj, but no Manikandan….but to put him on top was as unexpected twist! That guy is super-awesome. And you nailed it. Subbaraj – pretentious but good, Mysskin – mixes emotions randomly at times despite visual excellence, Maniratnam – boss, the form alone is not content!!
Manikandan has this subtle touch of genius about him
But hey how come you not be criticized about what you write?? Where is this person Karthik Naren. Very little body of work. Perhaps falls into the Manirathnam category. But what he did with his one movie was superlatively spellbinding.
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Anu Warrier
June 14, 2018
Whoa! You had to mount a defence? Glad I’m not on Twitter! 🙂
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sanjana
June 14, 2018
I think some film makers like Mani Ratnam and Mani Kandan made you expect the same from drastically different directors. And objectivity is not a such bad thing. Those who look upto your reviews will be discouraged and sometimes outraged. That means they think highly of you.
To want nuance is ok but to make it everything is not fair. Regarding form and content. It is like concentrating on the frame more than the picture that is framed, I think.
Sorry If I went too far.
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Vidya Ramesh
June 14, 2018
I presume you have endured quite a bit of Twitter twitting away at you to have written this Mr BR. This is my take.. People who read you will fall into a sigmoid curve 🙂 some will really hate you and some will really love you..both of them are not of much use to you in terms of feed back. If your response is to the haters who are hating on you because they think you are elitist and have a maniratnam Bias, that will not change because that’s an extreme view and you cannot unwrite a book about him and unlearn English ! If you feel the folks in the middle are telling you something about your views, it is worth thinking about. I am literally nobody to give you my two paise on being self aware but I heard something to this effect about discarding extreme feedback from John Stewart in an old interview a while back 🙂 it makes a lot of sense in today’s Twitter universe!
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Venky
June 14, 2018
I felt Virumaandi’s social commentary to be very much less appealing. A great cinema, maybe, but that’s it.
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MANK
June 14, 2018
Regarding form and content. It is like concentrating on the frame more than the picture that is framed, I think.
Sanjana, that’s were films are different. form and content is not separable as frame and painting. That’s what Brangan is arguing here. the art form called cinema reaches it’s full potential only when they coexist together. A good film critic is duty bound to demand that
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harish ram
June 15, 2018
@Sanjana & MANK: I have a different take on the frame/ picture analogy for form/ content. Wouldn’t it be better to compare the overall content of the painting vs intricacy of content, viz: texture, placement of each object WRT to others, the overall tone, etc, to convey the content? Why bring the frame into the context when we aren’t talking about Shankar kinda money shot films?
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Gautham
June 15, 2018
@Twitter trolls:
Possible fodder to respond to article with:
Accuse BR of sexism – where are the references to the women filmmakers ?
Claim that this is elitism of the kind where he responds only to his own questions.
If no headway is made with arguments, declare that this article was merely an exercise in driving traffic to some of his older reviews.
I am tempted by the thought of creating a couple of handles myself 🙂
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Enigma
June 15, 2018
BR, a very interesting read and a great format. Whatever you say in here is not going to change the opinion of the bigots who view everything through the prism of caste. You may praise Mysskin, Manikandan, Karthik Subbaraj and Gautam Menon but that will be ignored, only your positive comments on Mani Ratnam and KB will be picked up. Best is to ignore the bigots and focus on your work. Having said that, I would think that focusing on Hindi cinema (larger audience, fewer bigots), or enhanced focus on Hindi cinema considering that your background will not be brought up every time you diss a film, may be an option. Apologies if that sounds like an advise – was not trying to advise, just some random thoughts. Anyway, a very interesting read.
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Indira
June 15, 2018
I have a funny comparison to make, since the topic is about ‘BIAS ‘……” like an Indian couple on holiday in Las Vegas searching for an Indian restaurant to eat only Indian food three times a day instead of having brunch at the Wynn buffet”….!!!
Indian food is great but feel free to explore and appreciate other cuisines too !
I have been a fan of mani ratnam since I was an eight year old , watching mounaragam and feeling why it was so different from the mindless crap of the 80’s.
Or how the black and white scene of the teenage girl leaving a baby rajinikanth on the train in thalapathy ,haunted me , back in my boarding school .
I love movies and I am a movie buff as much as you are BR, we all know the crap from the good , but sometimes it hurts when you keep going back to mani ratnam , he is a master , we all agree , but you don’t want to be compared to a prodigy all the time . At the end of the day it’s a movie .
And it hurts even more , when you review a Telugu film , as a Telugu , i know there aren’t any good movies month after month , and “we” feel we have a right to talk trash about our Telugu films , but when an “ outsider” like yourself has a negative review , Telugu people tend to get upset ….. just like when siblings fight among themselves it’s ok , but when a third person interferes , the sibling support each other !
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Madan
June 15, 2018
@sanjana The thing is, by definition, at least the way films were made in the celluloid era, it is essentially an illusion of movement created by a projector rolling a set of images. So it is a visual medium first and foremost and started life without dialogue. I know what you’re getting at and the viewer has the right to relate to a film purely for its script or message. But as a critic, BR is engaging with the essence of the art form and is not wrong to do so. I don’t really buy the budget constraint excuse the fans trot out for big budget films where the star gobbles up half the budget or more. My wife was watching Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi yesterday and I honestly think the filmmaking there is better than in many films today, especially the mass ones. I may be biased a bit by black and white, but I think the limitations with B&W forced filmmakers to strive harder to obtain an image that the audience would remember. Once colour was available, the more mediocre directors became lazy. Or maybe the arrival of colour opened doors to such directors who may have otherwise found cinema daunting. SP Muthuraman has given hit after hit in Tamil cinema but forget BR,I don’t remember any other critic praising him to the skies. Nor Bhartiya. So why should today’s Hari or Atlee get a pass.
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Vikram S
June 15, 2018
BR, why do you have to explain yourself? If readers stick around and continue reading your reviews, it is a choice they are making. Similarly, you have the prerogative to write the way you would like to write…you really don’t have to explain yourself at all… at least that is what I think…what makes me uneasy is this ‘how can you not like/ how dare you not like my favorite star’s film…if you don’t like a specific film it’s definitely because you are @#$&’ thing that is going on…
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sanjana
June 15, 2018
Mank, I know my analogy is wrong but what I want to say is that form has its place and content has its place. If we can give the older film makers benefit of doubt, we can do so for some even now if they give less importance to form if the content compensates or presence of a big star makes it difficult to do so.
Well, the film makers should be ready to face brickbats if the film lacks finesse and the fans should not see reviews through narrow caste prisms.
BR was all praise to Pa Ranjith’s first 2 films and the fans forgot about that so soon. Maybe the overt caste reference in Kaala might have made them that the film did not get its due because of dalit factor in the film and in the film maker which is not the case at all. Add to that Mani ratnam factor also crept up.
The times have become so sensitive that we cant blame anyone but only expect people to think before they say anything.
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Sifter
June 15, 2018
Goodness! Looks like you got trolled too much on twitter that you had to write this. I dunno how to put it, but something was off about this entire article.
Those that want to actually read your reviews and articles will read here or FC or FP anyway.
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sanjana
June 15, 2018
I have seen a link to the review of Race 3 which was quite critical of the film on a famous website in the morning. Now it has been taken off. Something fishy.
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GODZ
June 15, 2018
After Reading this..i really have a question. Has BR ever changed his view on something? Lets say if he like, prefers or opines on something, is it something like kalvettu that can never be changed? Just wondering. Although BR respects others opinions and gives everyone even the haters the space, i dont remember an instance, where someone changed his opinion on something…Have you ever changed you opinion on a movie review or outside of movies? But I understand its a matter of personal opinion and preference. Jai BR!!
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Aadhy
June 15, 2018
BR : I have been a relatively new follower of your blog, when compared to others like MANK , Madan or Rahini. For whatever it’s worth, let me try to rationalise why certain aspects of your reviews face such a backclash in today’s social media.
There is no doubt that you have an unmatched eye for craft. In this sense your love for Mani Ratnam, Manikandan, Vettri and KS is something im sure anyone with a little interest in visual storytelling, or just cinema, would also share. It’s such a delight when you explain some of their scenes that I love, where I know there’s some magic going on, but not exactly pinpoint what. OTOH, I was so drawn by the content of Kaala that I didn’t notice the blandness aspect of the filmmaking. I thought it adequately serviced the story by not sticking out as flashy. But then in hindsight I saw the reasons why you called it lacklustre filmmakinng. A LOT of scenes are staged like a play where characters would talk on cue. The camera would just capture them talking and not do something that infuses some energy onto the scene ( golf course, family scenes for instance). It would indeed feel verbose to someone who’s looking for some nice visual moments here and there. In fact, Ranjith has had such talk-y scenes in quite all his movies. In Madras two opposite groups lay their claim for the wall, the dinner scene in Kabali, and the ones I menoned in Kaala. I think the public or the ones who had a problem with you on social media, also understand this. They know what you’re looking for, and get it.
I think their problem comes from your unabashed celebration of the urbaneness in GVM”s movies, or say your professed love for the surname of Dulquer”s surname in OK kanmani. It’s of course their problem, not yours. But you do sometimes come across as giving off brownie points just for these factors, which a lot of people find it unfair and thats why some even pull your background up for that. Your bias they think, is not from the fact that you love MR. It’s from your bias towards the class rung the characters in MR and GVM’s movie belong to. Now having followed your blog for quite sometime I know that you are just looking for stories about different people, to make cinema more interesting. For a random reader, this comes across differently. This is just my 2 cents. Of course you don’t have to really care about this.
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Aadhy
June 15, 2018
Even in this article, while you ask for nuance between US vs THEM, you say “tamil cinema has always celebrated ghettoes” , failing to see the nuance between the portrayal of ghettoes in other films and Kaala. This might come across as the class bias I had mentioned in my previous comment. It’s not an intentional bias, but just since you can’t relate to them, you seem ignorant about a lot of small nuances that the other audience have been able to pick up.
I’m not saying you should have done a literature review of dalit counterculture before watching Kaala. But this would explain the disconnect in the viewing experiences between you and others who get it. Just like a random burst of electronised Bhaavamulona in OK kanmani had a positive impact on you, it would mean nothing to a totally different set of audience. Is it fair as a reviewer that you rate one higher than the other just because of your connect? Of course yes, reviewing is subjective. Would this lead to backclashes? Also yes.
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Doba
June 15, 2018
I feel extremely hesitant to post a comment here when I know so little about movies. Also I find the blogs where I disagree with your opinions all the more interesting / stimulating. Finally, I don’t think anybody should have to apologize for an opinion.
Having said that I do feel that it is a pity that with all his technical virtuosity Mani ratnam ‘s recent movies don’t make me feel anything (except for some annoyance at the superficial hipness of the characters). Kaala on the other hand was pulsing with energy – I felt anger and exhilaration during the movie. Probably I am responding to the content more than form.
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Pato
June 15, 2018
This problem mainly arises due to present youtube reviewers .Except few ,none of their “verdicts” have any nuance.For example, see prasanth’s review of kaala and blue sattai’s review of kaala.One praised it to skies and another one torn it apart.This is in a way polarises(strongly firms up) vierwer’s intital positive or negative reaction towards the movie.The above mentioned 2 reviewers have a large fan following in youtube and influence lot of people.Now contrast this with reviews given by BR and sudhir for kaala.Sudhir gave a ‘positive’ review and BR a ‘negative’ one but both of them wrote elaborately on what worked and what didn’t.But these twiterratis who follow these social media reviewers only look for ‘good’ or ‘bad’ movie kind of review.
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Madan
June 15, 2018
Aadhy: I too had pointed out that specific OKK surname case at that time. I think what’s happening here is that BR loves Bollywood films (unlike many who make up the target audience of a Tamil mass film) and Bollywood unabashedly concerns itself with high class people and high class problems. The Salim Javed led angry young man phase was the abberation, not the norm and by the mid 90s Bolly had reverted to classy again. But in Tamil, the space for those kind of films has shrunk. The mass hero is obliged to appear humble (even if he is not!), always play underdog and be a sort of Robinhood. While I can understand why it sells well, forgive me for saying I too find this trope entirely tiresome. In this context, BR celebrated the focus and ‘non pandering’ of OKK but it came across as classist (even I found it classist at the time). There’s nothing like Brahmins/upper class people are so privileged that no films about them ought to be made anymore. Films should be made about every strata of society ideally. In a way, the class and caste consciousness in Tamil cinema is a good thing because it means films are still being made for the ordinary man on the street (which I don’t think is the case anymore in Bollywood). But it also compels filmmakers to pander in ways that are very artificial.
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sanjana
June 15, 2018
Such a wonderful thread, varied views and sane language. And the points raised are also quite interesting. I will remember this thread forever.
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Anu Warrier
June 15, 2018
@Madan – it is not just that. It is also that raw stock was expensive and limited. Raw stock was imported then, and taxed heavily as well. So good directors – Satyen Bose, Guru Dutt, Bimal Roy, Raj Kapoor – et al, learnt economy of shot-taking. Also, I think for the good directors then, content was king. And many of them were influenced by European masters.
Today, there’s money – lots of it. Raw stock? In a digital format, who cares?
All that said, I agree with Sifter – BR came across as very, very defensive.
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sanjana
June 15, 2018
Bollywood is a different beast. Ordinary and poor people are not resentful of rich people shown in Kjo or Yash Chopra films. And they dont extensively patronise poverty porn either unless served with massy elements. They want escapist fare. And caste does not matter much here. The world shown is too general, not specific to any caste in particular. Thats why they look less rooted and less earthy to the regional audience.
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Rahul
June 15, 2018
I think BR is explaining himself because he wants to. I will take this at face value and assume that it is coming from a constructive place, and he is definitely not apologizing for anything.
I will leave it at that, unless we want another article explaining why he wrote this article…
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Vishnu
June 15, 2018
Considering the standard of films churning out by tamil film industry it is very mean to nitpick on Mani ratnam, best among the few guys who make sensible films.
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Vishnu
June 15, 2018
On the same note, Considering the standard of reviews churning out by online reviewers, it is very mean to nitpick on BR, best among the few guys who write sensible reviews.
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brangan
June 15, 2018
Rahul: I am most certainly not apologising. I do think it’s good to have a bit of airing out like this about what criticism is, what it means to me, etc — the people who know this don’t have to read, but there are many to whom this is a bit new.
The responses on twitter have also been eye-opening. Some think I am criticisng my critics. Some think I am being apologetic. Some get this as a defensive piece. But some also get that this is a kind of “this is what you’ll get if you read me” piece.
I know this piece isn’t going to change any minds. But I felt it’s necessary to explain a few things, because on Twitter, something someone says gets calcified as the truth — and I at least wanted to get in my two cents about the Mani Ratnam and Kamal angle etc. Different critics have different styles. This is mine. Take it or leave it. That’s all.
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jewelsofsayuri
June 15, 2018
Many think that critics only criticise. But the real job of a critic is to review and explain the work of art. In order to do this, he/she must provide context and background information. I believe that is exactly what you do when you refer to old films. Any researcher will know the importance of references. Also, Don’t we all give examples to explain definitions or technical terms? so why not extend the same concept to a review? I enjoy your reviews (even when I have opposing views regarding the content at times) because of your writing. When I read references I make a mental note to observe what you mention the next time I watch the movie – which enrich me.
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Karthik
June 15, 2018
I am no intelligent creature to get all the symbolism or references made in Tamil films as I can just take what is given on the screen alone. But some film goers think that just by having a lot many of them a great amount of work has been done by the director. Few years ago I watched the film Iraivi there were a few guys who were just finding these clues on the screen like the date on the calendar, the car number plate, costumes etc. It was the evening show on the day of the release in a Tier 2 town of TN and some of these guys were religiously searching for clues like in a treasure hunt. This reference keeping is tolerable if the sequences are believable but such tit-bits without any credible work on screen is just too much. Even when the poster of Kaala came with the jeep and it’s registration number with all the other structures, people on online platforms were attributing the numbers to Dr.B.R. Ambedkar’s life but say for someone who is unaware of the anthropology of this country’s political movements it just shows just a man sitting on the bonnet of a SUV. Same for the films made as most would not go deep into every article on the frame and try to find out what they mean. What is easily noticeable is the flow of sequences and the characters but if the film maker wants to push his ideals too much then it gets flawed. Context is necessary but a wrong understanding of it does not help even if there are a lot many references.
Very few film makers in Tamil understand the context in which they live and to compensate embellish their films with inappropriate start cast or references based on their embraced beliefs. On the other hand Malayalam films are great in terms of context,and their characters fit into them with ease, moreover they do not go into fitting references or symbols. For me it is easier to connect with a movie like Annayum Rasoolum than say Madras which has not shown the place nor the politics in all it’s rawness. In the media it was said that the movie talked about Dalit politics in but the film did not place that prominently. When a viewer who is not aware of caste complexities may see the happenings as a loyalty-treachery-retribution tale alone. Gangs of Wasseypur was one film which took care in placing the context historically plus the tale. I presume film makers who start with a rooted view fall for the star trap and the latest fad in Tamil cinema is ideology. Taking a movie about plantation workers in Malaysia or slum dwellers in Mumbai is fine but having Rajinikanth as well your own ideological beliefs in the films sans the actual context and history is a distasteful mixture. If this is going to continue then more moral science or civics lessons on screen will the new norm. And our guys and dudes are going to praise them for the references and symbolism. For them it is great cinema.
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Shankar
June 15, 2018
I actually don’t have a problem with BR writing this article…Critics, just like film stars at least to me have always been in an ivory tower. I knew them but really didn’t know them….which is okay. BR’s interactions on this blog, as well as his inclination to interact in the real world, do make him a bit different…he is a normal person like you and me! We write a small piece and feel compelled to explain our POV multiple times when there are adverse opinions. Why can’t he do the same? That’s not being defensive…it’s getting an exposure to his thinking and the person he is since that’s what influences what he writes. I’m all for it! Kudos to you…and more power to you! 🙂
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Ravi K
June 16, 2018
There is a fundamental problem with how people read film criticism. People scream “bias” only when someone disagrees with their assessment of a film (as if they themselves do not have preferences and influences), not realizing that their idea of “objectivity” doesn’t apply to reviewing creative endeavors like film, music, books, etc. One cannot objectively quantify whether a screenplay is “good,” “bad,” etc. the way one can quantify, say, the performance of a car or computer or something.
This mentality leads to Idlebrain kind of reviews, where a review is sectioned off into “story, “technical departments,” etc., with comments like “the cinematography is good,” as if all the elements of a film are discrete compartments, with no insight into how all these things cohere or don’t cohere into a whole or any meaningful commentary on the craft. And definitely no insight into themes, subtext, characters, etc.
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Uncouth Village Youth
June 16, 2018
Obviously can’t read BR’s Twitter DMs. But many replies to his tweet, were hugely supportive of BR . Hell, there was a lot of Ranjith bashing , calling out his caste and asking him to leave Rajini alone. Even BR RTed one with the the same view. So there’s that. For those wondering about the abuse that BR got – just check out Blue Sattai’s Youtube vid – close to 21K comments, a lot with some of the choicest abuses one can conjure up in Tamil. I guess this article is more towards the comment crowd here – don’t think Twitter abusers would read thru this kinda explanation in its entirety.
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brangan
June 16, 2018
Uncouth Village Youth: Whoa. Not for a second did I say I was abused. Abuse is random name-calling. Here, people have taken objection to a specific stance — and this is more about explaining that stance.
Shankar: That’s not being defensive…it’s getting an exposure to his thinking…
And I think this is important. I think people who are opinion makers in the public domain owe (maybe this is too heavy a word, but can’t think of anything else right now) some kind of accountability to the reader. I can’t lock myself up and say “I’ve said it, and that’s that!”
Whether the reader actually cares about this dialogue is a different matter, but the dialogue itself I think is important.
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brangan
June 16, 2018
BTW, here’s a review where I am critical of Mani Ratnam’s craft…
“take this other shot, of Ragini (Aishwarya Rai Bachchan), who’s been kidnapped by Beera (Abhishek Bachchan) and who screams for help from the edge of a lake whose shore is littered with gleaming shards of black rock. Instead of responding to her distress, you’re wondering how a similar tile-design would look in your living room. The image is so shabby-chic, it looks like the jungle as imagined by an interior decorator.
If there’s a movie that Mani Ratnam could have gone mumblecore with, it’s this one, a psychologically driven art film dressed up as glitzy, plot-motivated commercial cinema, with fussed-over Sabyasachi costumes on a heroine who’s never allowed to look anything less than breathtaking. Even her bruises are beautiful. It takes real effort to pull your eyes away from the sparkling surface and peer deep into the narrative”
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Uncouth Village Youth
June 16, 2018
BR, I was not accusing you there – was just setting the context for some of the non – Twitter commenters , who had already come to their own conclusion.
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bart
June 16, 2018
Saar, these are ?? days for critics across. Just that the ?? are different.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jun/15/oceans-8-dominance-men-film-reviews
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vasuvasudevan
June 17, 2018
Well said Bharath
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Vandana
June 18, 2018
Frankly i don’t understand your reviews. The reviews for most part is like Hindu editorial, very tough to understand. Frankly, i think these kind of review are for a select target minuscule audience who master in using complicated language to convey what they are thinking. Anyway, your obsession with Mani Rathnam and Kamal is border line fanaticism. They are good, no doubt, but they are overrated. Obviously you are unabashedly biased towards them. The difference when you review their movies and other’s movies, is you try to find something good even if is only one scene in the entire movie to praise them. For example Kaatru veliyidai, kadal were pathetic movies, a torture to watch. You simply don’t want to accept that the movie is horrible, instead you try to find half a second scene in a 3-hour movie that will show some shades of old mani rathnam and you declare the whole movie watchable. You are so defensive when you critique MR/Kamal’s movies like it is your production or they are your relatives. Both MR and Kamal are the most overrated artistes. Kamal is Kamal in most of his movies talking about his ideology in every frame, or showing off his make up, fancy dress skills. A lot of bollywood actors are far better than kamal, and Mohan lal is far far better than Kamal.
Where as for other’s movies apart from MR and Kamal, even if the movie is decent, you try to review actually like a movie critic.
Common, let’s get out of this status quo of MR and Kamal and move on and appreciate the new breed without comparing them to the old breed. It is official MR cannot make movies anymore, he is like RGV who makes movies for the sake of making without any content. Now they are out to destroy the actor’s careers. I don’t know Vijay sethupathi is even acting in Mani Rathnam’s movie.
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Madan
June 18, 2018
@Vandana: BR does not try to find the good in only MR/Kamal movies. He did that with Vethalam too and I still – and unfairly, I admit – hold a brief against him for doing so to this day. 😛 But not once did I think he was being partial to Ajith. If you have read enough of his reviews, you would know that except for a few films which he totally roasts (Race 3 being the latest), he always tries to find some merit in a film. Or music. He tried to find a context where say Oru Koodai Sunlight works. ,
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Aadhy
June 18, 2018
Madan : There’s nothing like Brahmins/upper class people are so privileged that no films about them ought to be made anymore. Films should be made about every strata of society ideally.
Oh yeah I completely agree. That’s what I had also said in my comment – “Now having followed your blog for quite sometime I know that you are just looking for stories about different people, to make cinema more interesting. For a random reader, this comes across differently. “ .
Generally with my comment, I was trying to say no reviewer can be unbiased or completely objective. With form, absolutes might exist and an objective comment is possible, because it’s technical. But with content one always subconsciously would take sides. Even if you go by the merit of the film – what it set out to do and what it managed to do, your ‘review’ would depend on your cultural experiences and exposure. Plus, content decides form. When one’s distanced from the content, it could be hard to make sense of some film-making choices, which is fair. It’s upto the readers to know that. I don’t expect incisive political dissections in a BR’s review. I know that he wouldn’t get some of the political undertones, and he’s also admittedly least interested in it. I read his reviews for his comments on the visual craft and scene-writing aspects, while I certainly look elsewhere for a critique on political symbolism, character development and the ‘logic’ aspect of the movie.
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brangan
June 18, 2018
Here’s another interesting aspect of bias — from an email conversation with a reader who wrote in expressing disappointment with my Kaala review and the Q and A piece.
#
She said: “Especially with a director like Ranjith who has made his visions behind his films clear, I think paying attention to the context becomes more significant. Its not fair then to say that you dont care about ‘what is being said’ as long you are happy with ‘how its being said’.”
So I wrote back, saying things like: ” I do write about the revised Ramayana in the Kaala review, and also about how Ranjith has used Rajinikanth in a never-before manner. All this is very much “form” — and I have talked about it.
But I do think the screenplay is not great, and the film has too many ideas that are individually interesting, but do not cohere as a smooth narrative. So that aspect of “form” I am pointing out too.”
And she said: ” I am a little biased towards sociology and I found many things in the movie interesting from that angle. I guess hence the disappointment with your review of the movie and hence my mail. Yes, I can see whats more important to you as a film analyst.”
#
It was a really interesting and civil back and forth, and I am writing about this because bias (or preference or whatever you want to call it) has a lot to do with one’s interests — and you could probably explain a lot of my stances by the fact that I am interested (more) in cinema/the art behind it all.
So the way I look at it is this: I write mainly about the cinematic aspects (and maybe talk some sociological or gender aspects). Someone from JNU (or wherever) writes mainly about the political aspect (and maybe talks a bit about form etc). Someone writes from a gender POV (but less about cinema or politics).
And all of these build a wall of literature around the film.
I have said this before and I say this again: No single piece about a film can hope to be comprehensive about all its aspects, whether the film is Kaala or Veere Di Wedding or whatever.
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brangan
July 9, 2018
In which I get called a misogynist, a curd rice-ist, a Karthik Subbaraj-ist, and a lot more…
https://silverscreen.in/tamil/features/required-reading/ms-en-scene-an-imaginary-conversation-with-baradwaj-rangans-imaginary-conversation/
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Anuja Chandramouli
July 9, 2018
Wow BR! That is some hatchet job…. congratulations are in order. It seems like you have well and truly arrived.
I don’t understand those who feel feminism entails putting on your cheerleading costume and waving your pom poms every single time somebody pays lip service or peddles half – hearted, phony fare that claims to celebrate women empowerment but is mostly commercial hokey. Why does judging a work of art have to have anything at all to do with whether an artist has breasts or balls or both as opposed to being judged solely on artistic merit or it’s lack? What’s next? Are we supposed to vote for a candidate because she wears pantsuits irrespective of whether she is qualified for the position or risk being accused of misogyny and sexism? Does a rape/ dowry harassment/ molestation accused not deserve his day in court? Should we just accept the accuser’s version because she is a girl and this gender has dealt with too much injustice in the past making it the politically correct but not necessarily the sensible thing to do? Do things like solid evidence and the principles of democracy even matter in an age where we insist on trial by social media and proceed to dole out mob justice?
I feel these are valid questions but does that make me a gender traitor?
Time to run for cover myself!
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Rajeev Hari Kumar
July 9, 2018
I can’t wait for the Indian Sargon of Akkad to show up and boil some PC piss.
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Anu Warrier
July 10, 2018
@ BR – Whoosh! That was that article going right over my head. I must be an ignoramus, and what’s more, lack a sense of humour because I didn’t find it funny at all. I presume it’s meant to be. (See ‘ignoramus’ above.)
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Rahini David
July 10, 2018
Anu Warrier: Actually I read that article several times and it opened my eyes.
I have typed several sarcastic comments in online debates and a voice inside me always stopped me saying “But Rahini, sarcasm is no argument. If you actually have a point, make it with some decency and clarity and more importantly without making yourself sound like a __”.
It is only when I read an attempt that is all over the place that I realise that sarcasm is actually a fine art.
Well what I am trying to say is “This little light of mine, I’m gonna let it shine”
😉
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Vidya Ramesh
July 10, 2018
You haven’t well and truly arrived if someone doesn’t “room pottu yosicchu” spew nonsense in your direction 🙂 like someone said, congratulations are in order. Badhai ho!
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MANK
July 10, 2018
“But Rahini, sarcasm is no argument. If you actually have a point, make it with some decency and clarity and more importantly without making yourself sound like a __”
Ha ha …… absolutely right. she has no argument. just keep attacking the speaker\writer while dodging the subject. Brangan’s use of language is an easy target for such people. but the point that a lot of these people miss is that Brangan’s language is just the cherry on top, his arguments is the actual cake , the substance which creates a better effect when it is conveyed in his trademark style .
Brangan ,why give these people undue publicity and importance. stop acknowledging and tweeting about these ridiculous pieces
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Srinivas R
July 10, 2018
I couldn’t read through for a min, made no sense to me.
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Anu Warrier
July 10, 2018
Rahini, au contraire. sarcasm is really a fine art. 🙂 However, you need rapier-sharp wit, a facility for language and the fine precision of a surgeon to make a hit. That article had none of the above.
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Anu Warrier
July 10, 2018
Srinivas, you too? Me, as well, though I did punish myself by reading through the entire article to see if it made any more sense as I went on. It didn’t.
MANK – I agree with you; BR posting the link here made at least some of us read that ‘article’. I could have lived perfectly well not having to read that tripe. I don’t mind reading an article that I disagree with on a fundamental basis if it is crafted well and the other side has a convincing argument.
Here, funnily enough, while I do think BR has a bias [and who amongst us doesn’t?] with regard to certain films/personalities, and so I agree with the core of her argument, her writing doesn’t convince me of it.
The main reason I read BR, even when I sometimes pull my hair out at what I consider his total incapability to get what I am saying [ 🙂 ] is the fact that his facility for language makes his argument plausible – in other words, I may disagree with what he’s saying but there’s a joy in reading the argument he makes.
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Ratish Ravindran
July 10, 2018
Just unearthed this review of Marathi Film Sairat by BR
BR had compared Sairat with Alaipayuthey and during the course of his review even explains how scenes in Sairat are more real/organic as compared to Alaipayuthey. Now the director of Sairat is a Dalit film maker and made movies on dalit oppression like Pistulya, Fandry and Sairat. If BR is a casteist and projects Mani Ratnam’s work as the Gold Standard in film making, would he give such a favorable review for Sairat ?
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Vivek narain
July 10, 2018
Stardom and movie making is a racket, and people do get washed up in this racket. And whoever backs them gets into a rut, they need to figure out a new horse of their liking, to stay in reckoning.
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brangan
July 10, 2018
Ratish Ravindran: You don’t even have to go as far as to dig up a Marathi review. Even a look at my O Kadhal Kanmani review will give you these lines:
“But after a point, all this classiness becomes stifling. It’s one thing to have no melodrama. But OKK just doesn’t have drama. There’s barely any conflict and gradually the characters come to resemble soap bubbles, very pretty to look at and iridescently alive, but literally weightless.”
It’s all there in my blog. One just has to search. 🙂
But I guess it’s become easier to imagine every line of every Mani Ratnam review of mine is just:
“This is the greatest film ever. This is the greatest film ever. This is the greatest film ever. This is the greatest film ever. This is the greatest film ever. This is the greatest film ever. This is the greatest film ever. the greatest film ever. This is the greatest film ever. This is the greatest film ever. This is the greatest film ever. This is the greatest film ever. This is the greatest film ever. This is the greatest film ever.”
🙂
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rsylviana
July 10, 2018
A good but a tad bit overlong article about the reasoning and confirmation biases on our part that we find easier to overlook /understand even hard facts.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds?mbid=social_twitter
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Madan
July 10, 2018
@BR: In fact, if I remember, some readers disagreed with you then about your criticism of lack of drama in OKK. Saar, neenga endha pakkam ponnalum vera pakkam poga solranga.
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Padawan
July 11, 2018
Saar, why do you post these links in your blog. I read it twice because it didn’t make sense the first time. Well, it didn’t make sense the second time either. Total time waste. At the very least, they could have hired Ramki Bellur for a cartoon of you in komanam eating curd rice…would have been genuinely funny!
Adhu seri, neenga misogynist is all fine…when did you become a curd rice-ist with mangaa thokku? I remember having conversations on the best lamb dishes that was had…was it in the comments section of the MNIK review?
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Thupparivaalan
July 12, 2018
Mank, Anu Warrier: Maybe, just maybe BR wants to show off how famous he’s become these days. 😉 (Just Kidding)
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jaga_jaga
July 12, 2018
@The Buddha once said that, there is always an implicit but definite element of truth in any statement ending with “just kidding”!! The smiley is just another masker!
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Veena
August 12, 2021
I think the point of the question is to help you acknowledge that there is a certain level of caste bias where one tends to focus on + highlight achievements, accomplishments and talents of people belonging to one’s caste. This happens on auto-pilot because you think that these people match your sensibilities on sophistication, english, privilege and various other things that I can’t objectively list. I do believe this to be true where brahmins tend to overly idolize kamal haasan, mani ratnam and a few other artistes to a disproportionate extent. These are artistes have made several artistic choices which reflect their caste bias in extremely obvious ways in their movies. That includes who they collaborate with, who they cast, the stories they write, the caste of their characters and so on. All in all – there’s bias here and it is caste-based. It is likely unconscious but the point is to help you acknowledge it and be aware of it and reduce it going forward.
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brangan
August 12, 2021
Veena: I do believe this to be true where brahmins tend to overly idolize kamal haasan, mani ratnam and a few other artistes to a disproportionate extent.
Well, since you believe this to be true, I am not trying to convince you otherwise.
But yes, I do idolise the people you mentioned for the way they have pushed the art and the craft of cinema, which is the ONLY thing that matters (and should matterl) to ME as a film critic.
I also idolise — to the same extent as the artists mentioned above (if not more) — MSV, Ilaiyaraaja and Rahman for the way they have pushed the art/craft of music-making.
The only thing that matters is how the image within the frame (or the music from the speakers) “speaks” to you.
The point is that (I think) you cannot force yourself to like a piece of art BECAUSE it has been made by a particular class/caste member — just like you cannot force yourself to dislike a piece of art made by someone else.
The point is also that (I think) one WILL tend to like art that speaks to their sensibilities — which is not to say they will dislike art that comes from elsewhere.
And I do believe this to be true of anyone who puts the art before the artist, which is how (I think) it should be.
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ag
August 12, 2021
@Veena (and maybe anyone else who’s knowledgeable) :
I understand how that criticism kinda applies to Kamal Haasan (MMKR, Avvai Shanmughi, Hey Ram, et al). How does it apply to Mani Ratnam though? From what I can tell, all his protagonists are vaguely Hindu (excepting Kadal and Suriya in Ayudha Ezhuthu), with no more characterization than that.
Could you elaborate on the bias that MR shows?
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Madan
August 12, 2021
“I also idolise — to the same extent as the artists mentioned above (if not more) — MSV, Ilaiyaraaja and Rahman for the way they have pushed the art/craft of music-making.” – Heh, I would have given the same example myself.
Let me ‘confuse’ Veena further by saying that as a TamBram myself, I don’t ‘idolize’ Kamal. Yes, in the limited context of Tamil cinema of a certain era (mainly 80s and 90s) I like more of his films because, you know, he was interested in things like concept, script, point of view and not just fourth wall mass films (though this distinction did not stop me from liking Baasha, mind it ra). But that’s really it and I haven’t watched a new Kamal film in a long time now.
Whereas I am much more forgiving of Ilayaraja’s recent work compared to many in this space. I believe he still intermittently does come out with great music and it’s ok if new albums are not as ‘great’ as Agni Natchatram because it’s not exactly as if Yuvan or Harris match that kind of an unrealistic yardstick.
So what does that make me? A caste traitor for being more ‘partial’ to Ilayaraja than Kamal? You can’t have it both ways. It can’t be that “Madan is casteist if Madan likes an actor who happens to be a Brahmin like him” but “oh Madan is so progressive because he likes the work of a Dalit most of all”. I think all it really means is, as BR said, I see the art and at that point, their identity does not matter. It’s very different now but even in the 90s, it was possible to like the works of a composer or the songs sung by a particular singer without knowing what they looked like, forget the details of their background etc. There was no wiki then, you see. So if it seems somehow ‘unnatural’ that people focus on the art and not the artist, it shouldn’t because it was almost the only way before the internet unless you were a sociology student or an activist and actively sought out information about an artist’s antecedents.
The best example I can give of art ‘overshadowing’ the artist’s identity is that even in today’s climate, Islamophobes still love listening to Rafi. They just can’t help themselves; even the knowledge that staunch Muslims probably love Rafi too cannot stop them from admiring his voice. I don’t know if art will survive the id pol polarization but I do hope it does because that is the power it holds – to remind us of what we have in common in spite of our differences.
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Madan
August 12, 2021
“I understand how that criticism kinda applies to Kamal Haasan (MMKR, Avvai Shanmughi, Hey Ram, et al” – Well, I would like to stop you right there and remind you that at least two Kamals out of MMKR aren’t Brahmins at all. I am not certain that the Madan character is or isn’t a Brahmin but even if he is, there’s no way Rajan and Michael are. And what about other films? His Pammal K character isn’t a Brahmin. Neither of the two Kamals in Aboorva Sagotharargal are. Vardabhai in Nayakan. The Virumaandi character. Kamal has played non Brahmin characters numerous times and far more often than he has played Brahmin.
See, this is the point I made upthread. It’s almost if it’s verboten in Tamil cinema to have the lead play a Brahmin. Have people forgotten that Anniyan released just 16 years back? Nobody forced either Shankar or Vikram to make Ambi an unabashedly Brahmin character. You know, Brahmins also…happen to live… in Tamil Nadu. I would say the unnatural obsession with the few times somebody plays a Brahmin in Tamil films is more worrisome than BR supposedly being partial to Brahmin actors. At which point, I need to issue the weekly reminder that Kamal.Is.An.Atheist.
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Macaulay Perapulla
August 12, 2021
Today, the caste discourse has gotten to such toxic levels that, no matter how much we talk about art, craft, art >> artist, people are going to talk first about WHO is talking, before even start to talk about WHAT we are talking about. That’s the sad reality in the case of Tamil Nadu, which loves to be politically correct about abolishing caste while being casteist in every fiber of its being and actions.
Let’s now talk about Caste. Is it a “tool” invented by the “oppressor” caste to oppress the “oppressed” caste? Or is it a cultural identity marker that was carried along by every feudal society in its throes of cultural evolution? Today, at a cultural level, we carry the cultural identity of caste, and sure each of us, depending on where the lottery of birth happening, relate to it with either disgust or pride or simply yet another cap of identity among the caps.
Every filmmaker draws his or her aesthetics from the environment he or she has grown up in, among other influences he or she seeks to incorporate based on his or her predilections. Do you call that caste bias? Since this link will get thrown around here, let me set the ball rolling first by placing this link.
https://www.huffpost.com/archive/in/entry/the-right-wing-hindu-hypernationalist-politics-of-mani-ratnam-s-films_in_5f382534c5b69fa9e2fc3eef
Sure, let’s talk and argue Mani’s aesthetic influences until cows come home. But, to expect that every filmmaker will lobotomize his cultural influences to project a “caste-free” aesthetic in his movies is an argument that belies any understanding of history, evolution, culture. Today, as much as those in the west go on a trip to rid themselves of “cognitive biases”, many of us will perhaps go on a trip to lobotomize ourselves of “caste bias” and then one today…well, let me leave it at that..
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SP
August 12, 2021
If someone is getting criticized by people from both ends of the spectrum, that implies that person is somewhere in neutral zone, No?
Also, I have never really understood the argument that just great CONTENT alone makes Great Cinema. If there is a Poem, which has sub-standard (or completely lacks) rhyming-schemes / rhythm / meter / metaphors / similes etc., but has a decent idea (supposedly ‘content’) behind it, would we still call it GREAT POETRY?
My personal answer to that question is a definite NO. If we have to call spade a spade, we will call it sub-standard poetry. Or we could make the half-mistake of elevating it to decent prose.
So why cant we measure the greatness of a movie by similar parameters? If a movie doesn’t effectively/artistically/aesthetically use the fantastic tools that cinema (as an Artistic Form) have on offer, does that “really” make a case for GREAT CINEMA?
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Madan
August 12, 2021
Macaulay Perapulla: Oh man, THAT article! I remember reading it and was like WTH did I read. 😀 All I can say is Left must be prepared to keep losing elections through to 2050 if they think Mani of all people is a Sanghi! I’d ordinarily urge that the views of that author don’t necessarily speak for the Left but I am not sure of much of anything anymore. The world feels very much like an absurd political comedy skit come to life.
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ag
August 12, 2021
Madan, I actually agree with what you’re saying. I also find it a bit hard to believe that Kamal pushes these biases considering he’s an atheist (as is Mani Ratnam). My point was more along the lines of:
“Even if you could make an argument for Kamal Haasan (which I don’t necessarily agree with), how could one be made for Mani Ratnam?”
For example, in the link that Macaulay Perapulla shared, assertions are made that that characters from Mouna Raagam or OKK are Brahmin. But I don’t see where they are getting this info from.
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Nappinai (@Nappinai2)
August 13, 2021
I recently read a Firstpost review of Navarasa that says this – “Especially looking at the kind, almost embracing, gaze that Vasanth endows on the Brahmin community of Kumbakonam a few minutes ago, I found myself wishing that there are a hundred Pa. Ranjiths telling the story of their people for every Arvind Swami, who tries”. This seems to be a reverse sentiment of some of the comments in this thread.
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Madan
August 13, 2021
“assertions are made that that characters from Mouna Raagam or OKK are Brahmin. ” – You’re right that Mani actually doesn’t directly allude to the caste of his characters. But while I can’t comment on OKK, I think the Brahmin background of Revathi’s family is implied through the language they speak at home. Which is not going all the way into thalligai territory as far as I can tell, but has a definite Brahmin inflection. This is somewhat along the lines of what some commenters said about Madras in connection with BR’s review, that they could pick up a lot of social cues which he couldn’t because he is not from that community. It’s the same way in Mouna Raagam. There is nothing in the names to suggest explicitly that they are Brahmin (in fact, Chandramouli doesn’t sound very Brahmin at all) but there are enough hints of Brahmana baashai for us to pick up on it. The actor R Sankaran’s delivery itself has that Brahmana baashai inflection and their household looks like any number of independent houses of a middle class Brahmin family from that time. West Mambalam a CIT Nagar a dhan theriyala! 😉 But it’s subtle while Kamal’s Kamesh character (or Rajini in the song Madathile) pick on certain quirks of Brahmin culture and caricature them. Ambi in Anniyan also has caricature elements. In an Anglophilic TamBram household (observe the smattering of English in Sankaran’s lines), words like nokku etc aren’t used that much. There is just a subtle Brahmin flavour in the way he speaks (or the way elders in my household speak for that matter).
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Madan
August 13, 2021
” This seems to be a reverse sentiment of some of the comments in this thread.” – I don’t know which comments you are referring to as nobody has suggested that Pa Ranjith shouldn’t be making films. If Firstpost insinuates that Arvind Swamy should stop making films so that others like Pa Ranjith get to, yes, you’re not going to get me to sign on that. I refuse to view art as a zero-sum game. The fact that Ranjith has already directed five films and produced two others at this point suggests that it’s time for FP and others to retire the tired Brahmin-bashing trope.
OBCs dominate the Tamil Nadu assembly and have done so for several decades now:
https://scroll.in/article/994446/tamil-nadus-new-assembly-in-33-charts-lowest-women-representation-in-25-years-obcs-dominate
Whoever else does or doesn’t have power, Brahmins don’t in TN. Time to use the power to make substantial changes rather than demand performative ones like drawing daggers at Mani or Kamal.
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Macaulay Perapulla
August 13, 2021
@Madan There is a very important nuance here. Brahmins may not have the power. But, they have the privilege. There are no two ways about it. Today, privilege is largely conflated with guilt (which you see especially in the likes of TMK). How does one introspect privilege is a serious question worth exploring. Of course, there are many layers here. Economic Class plays a strong factor.
Your previous comment is an important point. Who gets to tell a community’s story? In the non profit org I run, we were anchoring a program on the sad lives and neglected traditions of Odhuvar community. While we were talking to many Odhuvars, we also interacted with many experts who have done Ph.Ds on the Odhuvar community. In the panel discussion, we made sure that the panel has 4 people from the community and one expert who has studied the community. It was evident from the Odhuvar community that they wanted dominance on narrating their lives.
It’s a very tricky question.
During one of Tamizh Prabha’s (the chap who wrote Sarpatta) interviews, he raises a similar question – Let’s say, somebody from outside decides to make an empathetic story on the lives of Nari Kuravar community. Will that be accepted? Of course, we are now starting to tell the story of their community. Perhaps, it might receive criticism about a few aesthetic choics. And few years down the line, when someone from that community makes a movie about their lives, he will make better aesthetic choices reflecting their ethos. Art continuously learns and moves forward. Isn’t that the joys of cinema?
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Anand Raghavan
August 13, 2021
I remember an interview of Mani Ratnam in News 18 a couple of years ago when the interviewer kept asking on the lines of why his films are always elitist and why is he not making characters on oppressed people (though Mani has made movies on disadvantaged like Anjali (mentally challenged), Dalapathy, Kadal (orphaned by Mom), Dil Se (ignored by mainland India) etc. He wanted to push MR in a corner because of his “privileged” background. Mani tried to explain him saying that Dravidian movement has had an impact on him and that resulted in making Iruvar and for a story to be made a movie it is an internal process for him etc. but the interviewer wont have any of it !!
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Anand Raghavan
August 13, 2021
This is the interview I referred, seems it was in 2017. Please watch it fully, one can understand that BR’s predicament is same as MR’s predicament here. 🙂
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Anand Raghavan
August 13, 2021
“their household looks like any number of independent houses of a middle class Brahmin family from that time. West Mambalam a CIT Nagar a dhan theriyala! 😉”
@Madan : I have read it was PC Sriram’s house in Alwarpet back then.
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Yajiv
August 13, 2021
“Whoever else does or doesn’t have power, Brahmins don’t in TN. Time to use the power to make substantial changes rather than demand performative ones like drawing daggers at Mani or Kamal.”
Bang on!
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brangan
August 13, 2021
Macaulay Perapulla: The way I see it, I don’t see it as a “tricky” question at all. The insider will make an insider-y movie about his/her people. The outsider will make an outsider-y movie about other people.
Both are valid.
Who says there is only one truth, which can be seen only from the inside? When Katherine Boo comes from the US and researches and writes about Dharavi slums, we get a great book, one that is definitely outsider-y? Is that not a valid piece of art?
Can — tomorrow — Mari Selvaraj not make a movie about the Chennai elite? It will be his POV, which is what matters. POV is not = “truth”.
For me, even a man writing a female character is doing it from the “outside”. Which does not mean that he should not do it. Maybe a woman writing a woman character will be more authentic.
But both are valid, as long as what is within the frame is convincing or affecting or funny or whatever.
Ultimately, screenwriting and cinema are essentially an exercise in imagination — rather, imaginative storytelling. If you want realism and truth, one should go to documentaries or neorealistic dramas.
So many people lauded KUMBALANGI NIGHTS. Which poverty-stricken village in India yields such perfectly lit and beautiful frames? But is the story valid only if there are garbage dumps and people shitting on the wayside? This is THIS filmmaker’s way of looking at the story — that’s all. Again, it is imaginative storytelling.
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Madan
August 13, 2021
Macaulay Perapulla: To your question about who gets to tell the story, I tend to go along with what BR said in his comment. It’s everyone’s story. When Madhur Bhandarkar made Chandni Bar, well, the film may not have exactly been Citizen Kane, but nobody was telling these stories in Bollywood. He opened up a conversation about a class of people who were overlooked. How impractical it would be if we say only bar dancers get to make a film like Chandni Bar. So to the point about privilege, the privilege can be used in constructive ways and as Anand Raghavan covered in his example, Mani has in fact done exactly that on several occasions. Likewise, Muzzafar Ali made a stirring film Gaman about the grim life of the underclass in 1970s Bombay but he himself came from a privileged background.
We don’t ask reporters whether they are of the right socio-cultural strata to report about a particular community or mohalla because we know that makes no sense. I don’t see it as any different when it comes to art. Yes, I do allow that a privileged upper caste person may end up making an insensitive and tone deaf film about a downtrodden community. But in that case, it is that person himself who lacks sensitivity or maybe he is just a bad artist. It does not mean every such privileged person is incapable of making a ‘valid’ film about the downtrodden. And in fact, privilege may allow such a person to throw a light on problems that are being suppressed or that the public is otherwise unaware of.
I think there is a difference between a person of privilege ‘appropriating’ an art form that is exclusively practiced by an underprivileged community (and I can understand the objections to that) and a person of privilege merely narrating a story about an underprivileged community. I think the latter is not only OK but quite important as it underscores our capacity for empathy. If we all decide to retreat to our caste silos, we are going back to how the problem started in the first place. The thrust should be on overcoming the differences rather than emphasising them. When someone says Arvind Swamy should not have made a short film and it would have been better for a Pa Ranjith to do so, it emphasises their caste difference. It actually does Pa Ranjith injustice because he probably deserved the opportunity on ‘merit’ alone as a far more seasoned filmmaker.
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Madan
August 13, 2021
Anand Raghavan: “I have read it was PC Sriram’s house in Alwarpet back then.” – Ah, also plausible for the purpose. At least back then. It’s much more posh now.
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Macaulay Perapulla
August 13, 2021
@BR Here’s why I think it’s tricky.
In the case of art form like movies, I totally get that it is not tricky. It is one’s POV. From a larger post-modern perspective which essentially states that even history is fallible, because it is ultimately somebody’s POV, it becomes tricky.
Let’s take the case of Indian History as reported by outsiders. When Katherine Mayo wrote “Mother India”, Gandhi called it “report of a drain inspector sent out with the one purpose of opening and examining the drains of the country to be reported upon”. Now what happens when a POV from “outside” starts to become so influential that it affects the way the community perceive themselves?. We have so many such incidents from Indian history. Devadasi tradition for instance. It is from this angle I resonate with Tamizh Prabha’s POV that those who narrate the tale of their community face an onerous task ahead – They have to challenge the old perceptions, wipe the slate and then present their POV about who they are.
“For me, even a man writing a female character is doing it from the “outside” I am surprised to hear you say that. Are you saying men cannot draw from their feminine traits and write from “inside”? Or are you saying that even if a man writes a beautiful female character (say Balachander whom you once characterized as a curious mélange of progressiveness and regression if my memory serves right), it would always be from “outside”?
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Macaulay Perapulla
August 13, 2021
@Madan
“I think there is a difference between a person of privilege ‘appropriating’ an art form that is exclusively practiced by an underprivileged community (and I can understand the objections to that) and a person of privilege merely narrating a story about an underprivileged community.”
This is again a tricky question. Let’s take the case of Carnatic Music Vs Pannisai/Thamizhisai (sung by the Odhuvar Community) Today, Sanjay Subramahmanyan has made a mark for himself by his amazing efforts to sing and popularize the works of Tamizh trinity (Arunachala Kavi, Marimuthu Pillai and Muthu Thandavar) and has made tamizh isai more accessible. He recently did a fabulous concert titled “Naanum Thamizhum” or something like that.
Now, let’s ask this question – If Sanjay sings a song from say, Devaram or Thiruvasagm, is he appropriating the art form of an “Odhuvar”, because let’s face it, there are many Odhuvars like Sargurunathan trying to make their mark in the world of Carnatic Music? Wouldn’t it affect the “market” of lesser known Odhuvar turned carnatic singers?
Now, I am no way disparaging the efforts by Sanjay or the efforts by TMK to expand the sphere of music. I am not trying to be provocative here. Today, from whatever little I have been studying about the history of Odhuvar Marabu and Tamizh Isai, it is obvious that Carnatic music draws its origins from Tamizh Isai. Take the slang phrase, “Paani”(பாணி) used often by carnatic musicians or take the origins of the phrase “alapana”. There are enough evidences to argue that Carnatic Music owes its roots to “Tamizh isai”. And so today, when odhuvars sing carnatic music to make their “tamizh isai” more accessible ( thereby diminishing the “pann” and “santhathi” tradition) and when carnatic musicians sing devaram, there are whole lot of tricky implications in the political sphere that cannot be simply be reduced to the binary of “appropriation/narration”. It is, as I said earlier, tricky question.
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Rahul
August 13, 2021
“Macaulay Perapulla: The way I see it, I don’t see it as a “tricky” question at all. The insider will make an insider-y movie about his/her people. The outsider will make an outsider-y movie about other people.
Both are valid.”
I guess this could hold true if the movie business was a perfect competition with no barrier to entry. Its similar to when there was push back from some members of dalit intelligentsia when Arundhati Roy wrote the foreword of an Ambedkar book. The point was that the media is in any case dominated to the extent of monopolization by upper caste voices. So at least leave their own stories to the dalits ,This is notwithstanding the fact that upper caste perspectives tend to differ a lot from dalit perspectives.
Not saying that the outsiders should not make these movies, just that the question is not as un-tricky as it seems to be.
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Prat
August 13, 2021
Not sure about his other films, but the hero’s caste was explicitly mentioned in Kaatru Veliyidai. That fact and the cast (his parents) were very grating.
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Nappinai (@Nappinai2)
August 14, 2021
@ Madan: “I don’t know which comments you are referring to as nobody has suggested that Pa Ranjith shouldn’t be making films. ”
I think I worded my comment weirdly, so let me explain. The FP review seems to suggest that a Pa.Ranjth would have been better off directing a Roudram or maybe that an Aravind Swami should not have directed one in the first place. I see this as the other end of the spectrum on the criticism of brahmin artists as some of the earlier comments in this thread are saying that MR or Kamal’s films are not diverse enough. Either way, it seems to me that it’s damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
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Nappinai (@Nappinai2)
August 14, 2021
Also, the views expressed by Huffington Post on MR are not new. During my MBA days from 2012 we had a course on social sciences, where one series of lectures were focused on critiquing films based on their social sensibilities. The professor had one or two lectures dedicated to shredding MR’s films as being pro-right and overtly brahminical. I had naively stated that MR happened to be one of my favorite directors before the lectures began and needless to say, faced a lot of heat for it!
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Sanjay
August 14, 2021
BR- I am not able to read the original article on FC and this is happening with many of your articles( I recently watched Koode, and I was not able to read your review). This defeats the main purpose of your blog, that is to preserve your work. Please do something about it.
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Sanjay
August 14, 2021
Sorry BR,just checked the articles through google search, and they are perfectly fine. So, I guess the link in this blog has expired.
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Madan
August 14, 2021
Macaulay Perapulla: I think the example of Sanjay Subramaniam singing in Tamizh Isai is an example of the former in my formulation (appropriation). If he wrote a Carnatic composition ABOUT Odhuvars, it would be the latter. The latter is what I am saying should be OK. The former does have problematic implications because it affects the ability of the Odhuvar community to preserve and propagate their music. Context again is important here. If a mainstream music composer at times borrowed elements from the music of a particular community, I would not say it compares to the Sanjay Subramaniam example because in this case, the composer’s work would retain the character of mainstream music while also throwing a light on a style of music that the mainstream may not have been aware of.
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Madan
August 14, 2021
” I see this as the other end of the spectrum on the criticism of brahmin artists as some of the earlier comments in this thread are saying that MR or Kamal’s films are not diverse enough.” – Correct! It is a circus thupaaki in effect, pinaadiyum suddum, munaadiyum suddum. A well intentioned critique by the Left but one that does not account for how circular and impractical it is. Or maybe it is not actually impractical because the insidious assumption behind the critique, which upper caste/class people subscribing to it may not be aware of, is that ultimately UC should be shut out of movie making/arts/media etc. After all, the Left in its original, hard avatar IS revolutionary. For the hardcore lefties, progressives are useful idiots to be manipulated into spreading ideologies that can eventually uproot the basis of society.
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Satya
August 14, 2021
I found myself wishing that there are a hundred Pa. Ranjiths telling the story of their people for every Arvind Swami, who tries
Nice. But why don’t they recommend the works of dalit short film makers to Neelam Productions? Ranjith is actually looking for young talent that echoes his views, and we even got a Telugu short film from Neelam Productions:
Instead all they do, is to bash. Art evolves with time, and we are witnessing the retirement of many tropes from the past. With time, things will change. Even with the best of intentions, nothing happens overnight. Public has patience for everything out there, but is not applicable on films though – how hypocritical!
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H. Prasanna
August 14, 2021
@Madan and Macaulay
On Tamil Brahmin privilege/power:
I am assuming you are Tamil Brahmins like me. I bring this up because I felt weird when I read “TamBrahm” in the Navarasa review. I don’t know if BR is comfortable saying that because he is TamBrahm or the film spells out the caste (I haven’t watched it). In the past, BR/Pa Ranjith has alluded to, I can’t place where, that some dominant caste names are kept out of Tamil films.
There is definitely a lot of Brahmin gatekeeping at educational institutions and professional organizations. In fact, the most popular Brahmin stereotype is Raja Visvaasi (loyal to the king/those in power). I have directly, and I am sure indirectly, benefitted from that privilege. Brahmins have been at the forefront of legitimizing the caste/power system for years. Our ideas of purity and untouchability still thrives in bubbles of powerful Brahmin groups. At school, I faced my share of slurs/stereotyping as I studied at a non-Brahmin-dominated school. There is no comparison to what the others went through, oppressed as lower castes. But, I definitely felt alienated by the other dominant castes at school although it didn’t mean loss of economic or social status. And it kind of irked me that TamBrahms were caricaturized and made easily identifiable through films, which contributed to much of the stereotyping/name calling. In the last FC directors roundtable, Lakshmy Ramakrishnan said she was identified by caste when a character was written alluding to her real self (Aruvi). There was not much response, except Vetrimaaran’s vaguely general acceptance that it is wrong.
This kind of continues until this day. I have not considered finding out what the other dominant castes are or calling out other dominant castes by name. I haven’t felt that this is necessary. Whenever I saw someone is silenced because they are of a particular caste, I try to be aware of my privilege, be an ally, listen to them and do my best to speak out (which is admittedly rare). But, considering that Brahmins have been called out by caste name for so long, do you feel it is time we use our privilege to call out other dominant castes by name when we talk about casteism? Is this a tricky endeavor as it reestablishes the Brahmin superiority model and its just casteism under a cloak? If calling out Brahmin privilege by name is helping in bringing self-awareness, should we do it with other dominant castes as well? I am sure I have blind spots, that is why I am asking this.
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hari
August 14, 2021
Macaulay Perapulla –
That huffpost article was howlarious.
When Carnatic music is palatable to a bare minimum percentage of people in TN, why is it difficult for Odhuvar Marabu and Tamizh Isai to be more popular? What is stopping them getting more popular? I don’t understand the politics behind this. I wanted to ask this earlier as well.
I absolutely love this rendition – https://twitter.com/veejaysai/status/1387264331016855555. This sends chill down my spine.
Regarding this point – There is a very important nuance here. Brahmins may not have the power. But, they have the privilege. There are no two ways about it. – i don’t completely agree with this. I know so many Brahmins who live in abject penury, asking them to acknowledge their privilege is inexplicable to me. Not saying that you are asking them to though.
Probably as a community they are better off than few other communities, but there are very many communities in TN who are way better than them. Don’t see very many people asking these communities to acknowledge their privilege and do something with it.
Madan – In https://www.filmcompanion.in/features/tamil-features/navarasa-web-series-netflix-all-episodes-ranked-suriya-vijay-sethupathi-mani-ratnam-gautham-menon-karthik-subbaraj/ – article, the author to diss the Summer of ‘92 episode mentions the Nedumuni Venu’s household as a Brahmin household even though it was clearly mentioned that they are not in the episode, that is how things role in TN :).
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Madan
August 15, 2021
H.Prasanna: Basically, yes, I think other dominant castes are a problem today. And whether or not they are as big a problem as Brahmins, what I observe is everyone criticizing caste issues in TN takes the Periyarite line and attacks Brahmins but stays mum about dominant castes. I am tempted to ask bluntly if the reason for that is because in recent history Brahmins have not burnt down villages because someone from their ilk married into a lower caste. Be that as it may, I am going to say that I personally am not much interested in calling out other dominant castes by name.
Part of the reason is selfish – I am a Mumbaiite. I am connected enough to Chennai that I am aware of what the caste discourse in TN is but ultimately it doesn’t personally affect me. In Mumbai, every Tamilian is a political outsider and the luxury of following Periyarite politics goes out of the window so nobody discusses the Mumbai Tamil community in terms of Brahmins and non-Brahmins.
The other part is simply that an endless circle of caste calling out is not going to get us anywhere. I still have more faith in an approach of healing wounds over time so that people can come together rather than the disruption that progressives are suddenly so enamoured of. For a politically active person, disruption is extremely attractive because it helps divide people as per categories and you can then target your base and get them to rally behind your cause. But for everyday life, it’s a disaster. If political activism bleeds too much into normal life, people are going to start finding it difficult just to put up with each other’s presence (once they know they are from different castes). As I said in a post upthread, it will simply lead us back to where the problem began.
I think it’s a complete lie that the discourse of unity that informed both our post independence experience and civil rights in America failed. It just didn’t succeed in all respects but what it only means we have to double down further on addressing differences, helping communities affected by such differences and eventually get people to overcome the differences. I just don’t see value in a fractious discourse of attacking people for the groups they belong to, especially the performative manner of attacking directors and actors who have already made their fortune. I mean, even if you do get Mani to stop making films ever, what is achieved other than an at best symbolic victory. How is that going to help provide what poor people in backward communities really need?
One of my juniors in an earlier org was an OBC and lived in a slum. He was a wonderful ‘resource’ (to use the terrible corporate lingo), one of the most proactive guys at that level that I have worked with, but he couldn’t complete graduate education due to the environment at home and in his neighbourhood no matter how much we encouraged him to. And repeated health issues of his mother ended up draining his meagre savings and he had to resort to borrowing money from some of us. As of today, he still owes me some five figure amount and I stopped asking after a point because I knew he was simply not in a position to repay. This is where our system REALLY lets them down and makes it so difficult for them to upgrade themselves economically. This is what we need to be addressing, not who gets to make what film. Rahul mentioned upthread how the media’s gatekeeping ensured its ranks were dominated by the upper caste. So…to take this argument further, how do I know that the reason for the current discourse isn’t simply a guilt trip by the media, who are known to not take responsibility and clean house themselves and to always transfer it instead to accusations on others? Yeah, seems like a distinct possibility to me.
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Macaulay Perapulla
August 15, 2021
@Madan “. If a mainstream music composer at times borrowed elements from the music of a particular community, I would not say it compares to the Sanjay Subramaniam example because in this case, the composer’s work would retain the character of mainstream music while also throwing a light on a style of music that the mainstream may not have been aware of.”
Take the case of “kanda vara sollunga” in karnan. In this case, santosh narayanan did a more aesthetically sophisticated retelling of the same song that was used by the folk singer towards Lord Ayyappan. In such a case, there is a sense of “Look how Santosh used this poor folk singer and created a rousing folk song. Did he pay for it at least? “. We have seen in this past when AR Rahman used a sufi folk song for “Chaiyya Chaiyya”. Such derivative performances do nothing to the original song.
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Macaulay Perapulla
August 15, 2021
@H Prasanna ” I don’t know if BR is comfortable saying that because he is TamBrahm or the film spells out the caste ” Given the amount of brahmin bashing that happens in Tamizh cinema, I doubt if any artist would be comfortable talking about it in public. A large part of Navarasa bashing can be attributed to the “brahmin bashing” of themes and the men who are the showrunners.
Take a look at this statement from Ashutosh Mohan, in his ranking of Navarasa review, “You could argue that all the casteist slurs on Yogi Babu’s character in Summer of ‘92 are atoned for in the narrative when a dog splashes poop all over an orthodox Brahmin household.” I was lost for words when I read this. S
https://www.filmcompanion.in/features/tamil-features/navarasa-web-series-netflix-all-episodes-ranked-suriya-vijay-sethupathi-mani-ratnam-gautham-menon-karthik-subbaraj/
It is this culture that has brought a subtle unspoken sense of self-shame among those who want to be “modern” and own one’s cultural identity, especially in Chennai. I am able to relate with Madan’s POV here although these cultural notions spill over in online spaces, no matter where you are, physically speaking. Today, to avoid this notion of shame, I see most moving further right in the political spectrum, exerting their identity with a stronger sense of pride, to overcome the unspoken burden of shame the individual has been carrying all this long. Most feudal societies carry the caste card identity when they feel insecure in other parts of identity. That’s where I feel we as a country are in.. I don’t know if there is any merit in calling out. The point is, Caste is just one small part of identity. If someone feels either extremely proud (like most in the right spectrum ) or extreme shame (TMK), it boils down to a simple fact: One is not comfortable with one’s own roots. To me, that is the root of the problem.
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brangan
August 15, 2021
H. Prasanna: I don’t know what there is to feel “comfortable” about mentioning when the setting is itself a TamBrahm wedding. (How else would I phrase it?) Besides, the story is not at all caste-driven. It is driven by human emotions like pettiness, jealousy and disgust.
Also, someone pointed out to a review where they said Arvind Swamy shows a rickshaw driver and stuff and shows he is an outsider. In an earlier era, all of this would be called “establishing shots” — setting the milieu of the film, who these people are and what they do. Today, it’s considered “outsider view”.
Today, I guess the various quick-cut shots in “Chinna chinna aasai” — which Mani uses to plunge us quickly into Madhu’s village — would be called “outsider view” as well, instead of talking about how efficiently he uses the medium and instantly establishes the character.
I wish reviewers return to talking about cinema again and leave the politics and gender and other issues to knowledgeable columnists.
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Madan
August 15, 2021
“Take the case of “kanda vara sollunga” in karnan. In this case, santosh narayanan did a more aesthetically sophisticated retelling of the same song that was used by the folk singer towards Lord Ayyappan. ” – This is a complicated one, I grant. On the one hand, folk music has been appropriated over the centuries for classical and other music, not only in India, but even in Western classical. Motifs don’t come out of thin air, they are very often based on traditional music. The way I look at it is this: if a particular folk song has been sung for generations in a community, then using it in other music is fine. If a specific living folk singer composed it and somebody else adapted it and passed it off as their own composition, that’s a case of harmful appropriation.
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Macaulay Perapulla
August 16, 2021
“I wish reviewers return to talking about cinema again and leave the politics and gender and other issues to knowledgeable columnists.”
Today, with the advent of Youtube and OTT streaming ( which allows people to pause the frame instead of savoringit), most aesthetic choices in cinema are becoming weaponised. There are a bunch of people in Youtube waiting to “decode” every aesthetic choice and “decode” hidden political meaning. This trend is only going to continue and worsen.
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Anand Raghavan
August 16, 2021
BR : “I wish reviewers return to talking about cinema again and leave the politics and gender and other issues to knowledgeable columnists.”
As a reviewer what do you consider to be the the tipping point in Tamil Cinema when the activism overtook the cinema craft among reviewers and opinion makers?
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Macaulay Perapulla
August 16, 2021
@Madan “if a particular folk song has been sung for generations in a community, then using it in other music is fine. If a specific living folk singer composed it and somebody else adapted it and passed it off as their own composition, that’s a case of harmful appropriation.”
I agree completely. The best textbook example is “Maa Re Waa”. Through retelling, they made sure that the spotlight on the original version is even brighter. If you’ve seen the Indian Ocean,”Leaving Home” documentary, you would be able to appreciate my point deeper.
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H. Prasanna
August 16, 2021
@BR As I said, it was not at all something related to the movie, I have not even watched. It was just a personal thing that I had been thinking about. But, I agree, this was not the right place for it. We should just stick to the reactions to the films.
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H. Prasanna
August 16, 2021
@Macaulay and Madan
“an endless circle of caste calling out is not going to get us anywhere. I still have more faith in an approach of healing wounds over time so that people can come together rather than the disruption that progressives are suddenly so enamoured of”
“One is not comfortable with one’s own roots. To me, that is the root of the problem.”
Thank you for your response. It really addresses my concerns and gives me a better understanding. The temptations are too great to drop the conversation and join the side that just sympathizes with my own views. I am glad I asked.
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Mr. Oberoi, aka Honest Raj
September 5, 2021
@Madan: I think the point Veena is trying to make is very clear. That it’s difficult for oneself to let go of the bias. We are all biased in some sense – it can be attributed to our family/upbringing, culture, et al. It’s a very human nature but the issue crops up only when it comes to admitting the bias – more so, if someone happens to be a part of the most privileged group. In Kamal’s case, it doesn’t matter whether he’s an atheist or not. Remember, this was the guy who chose to cast Vasundhara Das in Hey Ram because the latter supposedly had an Iyengar nose. 🙂
In the case of MMKR, we all know which character among the four got the highest level of attention. As for his other films, no matter how much ever he tries to convincingly play those characters, the Tambrahm persona in him still shows up. In Sathileelavathi, he makes a constant effort to speak the Kongu Tamil – being an outsider, I cannot vouch for the authenticity though – but whenever he switches to English he speaks with a Tambrahm accent. In Mahanadi, the family’s caste isn’t explicitly mentioned anywhere in the film, but if we consider the milieu and the supporting cast, it’s easier to believe that they’re Brahmins.
I have great memories of watching Suhasini’s Indira (I was very young back then), but it was not until very recently that I came to know that the character played by Anu Hasan is a Dalit. I’m curious to know in which part of rural TN, Dalits lead a Brahminical way of life – from reciting Bharathiar’s poems to having a Tulasi Maadam at the backyard of the house.
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ag
September 5, 2021
Ok, now I have to know this.
What exactly is a “Tambrahm” English accent?
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Madan
September 5, 2021
“What exactly is a “Tambrahm” English accent?” – Indeed. The more I read about these stereotypes of Tambrams, the more I discover about the ways I am supposed to be as a Tambram (but unfortunately aren’t).
“In the case of MMKR, we all know which character among the four got the highest level of attention.” – And that cannot possibly have anything to do with the fact that it’s a complete caricature of a Pallakaatu Brahmin, i.e., lampooning? And why then does he not make the Madan character an obvious Tambram given that is the most privileged Kamal of all in MMKR?
“We are all biased in some sense – it can be attributed to our family/upbringing, culture, et al. It’s a very human nature but the issue crops up only when it comes to admitting the bias ” – Yes and the issue also crops up when those doing the calling out refuse to consider the possibility that their own prism of examining the art in question and ‘calling out’ the bias may itself involve a bias. As it seems to in your case. If you want read something into a given piece of art, no force on earth can stop you from doing so. Doesn’t necessarily mean in every case the artist has something to answer for to ‘counter’ this charge.
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Mr. Oberoi, aka Honest Raj
September 5, 2021
@ag: The way Kamal speaks English in SL.
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ag
September 5, 2021
Mr. Oberoi, I understand that. I was asking more along the lines of what distinctive features it has. Like when it comes to Tamil, everyone is aware of the words/pronunciations that come with a Tambrahm accent (avaal and what not). Similarly, what marks an English accent as “Tambrahm”?
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Nappinai (@Nappinai2)
September 6, 2021
Just like the “Tambrahm” English accent comment, I am also curious to know why reciting Bharatiyar’s poems is considered a Brahminical way of life.
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Madan
September 6, 2021
” I am also curious to know why reciting Bharatiyar’s poems is considered a Brahminical way of life.” – Yup. Only Tamil ‘poem’ I have heard recited in mine and other Iyengar households is Divya Prabandham. And Iyer prayers are in Sanskrit as far as I know. And there is very scant interest in ‘illakiyam’ in Tambram households (which I believed to be the reason for the accusation of Tambrams being Anglophilic and disinterested in mainstream Tamil culture – which itself isn’t necessarily always true) so I am surprised to hear the accusation that we are Bhartiyar fanboys.
Engallapatri ivlo vizhayam therinjirkunna neengalum naamam porthokongle. Illa neenga than engalukku naamam vekkarela na puriyala.
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hari
September 6, 2021
Madan it depends. A lot of Tambram households sing Thiruppugazh, Shasthi kavasam, lot of Aiyappan, Amman, pillayar songs in Tamizh. Lot of Tamizh literature is created by Tamizh Brahmins, I can give many examples for this. But that will not help in any case, isn’t it :).
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Madan
September 6, 2021
“I can give many examples for this. But that will not help in any case, isn’t it :).” – Like I said, it is circus thupaaki phenomenon. Padikkalena, “you feel too superior to appreciate Tamil”, padiccha “only Brahmins sing Bhartiyar poems”.
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Macaulay Perapulla
September 7, 2021
@hari: “When Carnatic music is palatable to a bare minimum percentage of people in TN, why is it difficult for Odhuvar Marabu and Tamizh Isai to be more popular? What is stopping them getting more popular? I don’t understand the politics behind this. I wanted to ask this earlier as well.”
I am sorry I missed responding to this. There are various aspects to this. During independence, most traditional arts were in a deplorable state. Devadasi community was painted with such moralistic overtones and they lost their moorings completely. If you read their history ( Check out Pradeep Chakravarthy’s works), it is deeply painful. It is in this context, we must understand the hapless state of Marabu and Tamizh Isai. Dravidian Politics wanted to erase “religion” from tamizh (which was ridiculous as great works in tamizh were deeply religious) and then they created a straw man’s argument that brahmins by supporting “carnatic music” in their sabhas made sure that tamizh isai was destroyed. Ofcourse, carnatic music world is full of people like TMK who dismiss Tamizh isai in one paragraph in his 900 page work Southern Music. Today, with artists like Sanjay, Pradeep Kumar, and many trusts, there has been a lot of resurgence in the carnatic world to go deeper into the works of thirumurai and go deeper into the nuances of pannisai.
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Anand Raghavan
September 7, 2021
My mom always loved listening to the carnatic based Tamil film songs of G Ramanthan, KVM and was able to adapt to V-R and then MSV easily but took time to like to Raja and even more time for Rahman (that too she liked their melodies but not much fan of western orchestrated/heave synth beat ones).
Now she feels the current period is the worst period for TFM, at least Harris in the last decade composed songs that one could hum and sing but now she says she couldn’t relate to any songs that come out except something like a Bahubali (again it is Maragathamani who is ethnic melody based). .Even with indian classical, she is able to appreciate Carnatic music but feels somewhat cold to Hindustani.
So I understand it is how one’s “Rasanai” is conditioned and not seemed to be a purposeful bias.
Is it the comparative lack of hummable melody line that deters many such lovers of Tamil Film music on the last decade or so ?
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hari
September 7, 2021
Madan – ennatha solla 🙂
Macaulay Perapulla edhukku sir sorry laam. I was looking forward to your response, and so thanks for the same. Thanks for the pointers. Any specific book/article from Pradeep Chakravarthy that you suggest?
By Sanjay I hope you mean sanjay subrahmanyam. If yes, I’m a huge fan. I very much like his thamizhum naanum series. I have not heard Pradeep Kumar, will start listening.
“there has been a lot of resurgence in the carnatic world to go deeper into the works of thirumurai and go deeper into the nuances of pannisai.” – I hope this continues and takes Tamizh Isai to greater heights.
My father recently started re-reading thirumoolar thirumanthiram and started sending audio clips about his writings palatable to his grand kids. My mother has been a Muruga bakthai who loves reciting Thiruppugazh and nowadays with advent of technology have been taking taking thiruppugazh classes to her grand kids 2-3 times a week. Thereby doing something to upkeep our culture and traditions and passing it on.
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Mr. Oberoi, aka Honest Raj
September 7, 2021
@ag: There’s this line from the restaurant scene: “Bearer, get me a menu card please”. This is one of those rare instances where he departs from his usual ‘Amarican’ style and sounds more like one of those characters from a YGM/CM play. As for words/pronunciations, most non-Brahmin Tamils (have observed this with Telugus as well) use ‘sa’ in the place of ‘sha’ quite often. In the case of Brahmins (mostly the older ones), it’s usually the other way around.
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Mr. Oberoi, aka Honest Raj
September 7, 2021
The more I read about these stereotypes of Tambrams, the more I discover about the ways I am supposed to be as a Tambram (but unfortunately aren’t).
It’s not just the Brahmins, every caste is associated with some kind of stereotype. But then, the positives outweigh the negatives when it comes to them.
More to the point, every caste has its own way of speaking the language. Once, someone told me that the Tamil spoken by Kamal in SL was closer to that of the people belonging to the lowest caste than that of the Gounders. It seems such a phenomenon exists in south TN as well (came to know this from a recent interview of Mari Selvaraj).
And that cannot possibly have anything to do with the fact that it’s a complete caricature of a Pallakaatu Brahmin, i.e., lampooning?
This, I agree. But there exists Brahmins who love that character, no?
Yes and the issue also crops up when those doing the calling out refuse to consider the possibility that their own prism of examining the art in question and ‘calling out’ the bias may itself involve a bias. As it seems to in your case.
Sure, but that isn’t the point here. I believe we’re talking about ‘admitting’ the bias and not about ‘being’ biased.
About Bharathiar, sure, people belonging to any caste could well recite his poems. But, I’m just wondering over the way in which a Dalit household (from a remote corner of TN) was depicted in the film. Forget about dalits, even the OBCs don’t lead such a lifestyle.
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Mr. Oberoi, aka Honest Raj
September 7, 2021
Engallapatri ivlo vizhayam therinjirkunna neengalum naamam porthokongle. Illa neenga than engalukku naamam vekkarela na puriyala.
Is this machine translation?
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Madan
September 8, 2021
” There’s this line from the restaurant scene: “Bearer, get me a menu card please”. ” – Not aware that ‘bearer’ is a TamBram word. I for one never address them as bearer/waiter, usually an ‘excuse me’. I have also not heard anyone going up to my grandfather’s generation using that word ‘bearer’.
“It’s not just the Brahmins, every caste is associated with some kind of stereotype. But then, the positives outweigh the negatives when it comes to them.” – Very easy for you to say that but I don’t like these stereotypes and many Brahmins don’t for that matter. The pertinent question is what would it take for you to look at the person as something more than entirely a product of their caste alone.
“But there exists Brahmins who love that character, no?” – So? Are you denying that the Rajan character is very evidently not a Brahmin? Or that Kamal has played non Brahmin in comic and serious settings in numerous roles? Wait, what? ‘Non Brahmins’ actually never loved them? So how come these films were hits? There aren’t enough Brahmins in Tamil Nadu to make films run if others don’t like them, you know.
Sorry but this, once again, sounds like you aren’t saying so much that Kamal plays Brahmins too often (which he clearly doesn’t) but that he shouldn’t play Brahmins AT ALL. Which is clearly an unfair indictment but this isn’t evident to either you or Veena BECAUSE:
“I believe we’re talking about ‘admitting’ the bias and not about ‘being’ biased.” – So why don’t YOU start by admitting your bias? That because you KNOW Kamal is a Brahmin, every time he plays a Brahmin stands out to you and every time he doesn’t play one is either invisible or taken for granted by you.
“Is this machine translation?” – More evidence of your bias as the transliteration from Tamil to English might be wrong but the Tamil isn’t. Kindly look in the mirror before making your ‘comeback’.
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Nappinai (@Nappinai2)
September 8, 2021
“About Bharathiar, sure, people belonging to any caste could well recite his poems. But, I’m just wondering over the way in which a Dalit household (from a remote corner of TN) was depicted in the film.”
Fair enough, but I find it telling that you chose to use Bharatiyar’s poems to critique the depiction of the household in Hasini’s Indra as Brahminical. My guess is that it has to do with the fact that Bharatiyar by birth is a Brahmin and so is Hasini. The caste it seems takes precedence over anything else, never mind their body of work. Is this the way you view artistes of other castes as well?
I agree with Madan here, admitting biases are a two-way street, no? Unless, the issue here is something else totally – basically that you don’t want to view brahmin artistes or their storylines in tamil cinema. If that’s the case I would urge you to say so, instead of hiding behind argument on biases.
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hari
September 8, 2021
The most confused movie household I have ever seen is the one they show Bigil to be living in the movie Bigil, anyone knows what the director was trying to show. Someone might even call it as a Brahmin household. Any clue, anyone?
Aside that point, the most biased scene belongs to this movie, where the hero and heroine goes into a Brahmin household. Teaches them about women empowerment to a house which has an IAS daughter-in-law (who apparently is not allowed because the men don’t like them to go out, I would like to read about this household). And to top it off, the hero gives the husband an ass slap. All is kosher when the bias is against Brahmins, it seems like 🙂
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Mr. Oberoi, aka Honest Raj
September 11, 2021
Fair enough, but I find it telling that you chose to use Bharatiyar’s poems to critique the depiction of the household in Hasini’s Indra as Brahminical.
The issue has less to do with the mere depiction of Bharathiar themes and more to do with HOW it is told – the story appears to be told from a Brahmin POV rather than a Dalit-Bahujan perspective. All I’m saying is people have different perspectives based on caste as India is a caste-conscious society. Imagine, if Muthaiah and a Kayastha Bengali filmmaker, each were to come up with a biopic on NSC Bose. Surely, we get different films, no?
My guess is that it has to do with the fact that Bharatiyar by birth is a Brahmin and so is Hasini.
Isn’t that what I’ve been trying to say all the while? She could’ve chosen someone like Ambedkar, no?
Is this the way you view artistes of other castes as well?
Sure. Bharathiraaja and Vairamuthu among others – the former has asserted his caste pride on numerous occasions. BTW, would you really be engaging with me in the same way had Kamal/Suhasini been from a non-Brahmin community?
Unless, the issue here is something else totally – basically that you don’t want to view brahmin artistes or their storylines in tamil cinema.
Bit of a stretch there! Is Indira – it could’ve been named after Indira Gandhi though – a film about a Brahmin woman/family? I’m not even complaining but just pointing out the bias (conscious or otherwise) on Suhasini’s part.
I agree with Madan here, admitting biases are a two-way street, no? … If that’s the case I would urge you to say so, instead of hiding behind argument on biases.
Sigh! Have I claimed myself to be a “Nadu Centre Natarajan” anywhere? I try to be ‘reasonable’ but, like any other individual, I’m biased.
Not aware that ‘bearer’ is a TamBram word. I for one never address them as bearer/waiter, usually an ‘excuse me’. I have also not heard anyone going up to my grandfather’s generation using that word ‘bearer’.
I’m not aware either (CM was the dialog-writer), but I’m talking about the accent here.
The pertinent question is what would it take for you to look at the person as something more than entirely a product of their caste alone.
Is this specifically addressed to me? Anyway, I believe I’ve made myself clear.
More evidence of your bias as the transliteration from Tamil to English might be wrong but the Tamil isn’t.
Sincere question – do you even acknowledge the existence of Brahmin Tamil?
Kindly look in the mirror before making your ‘comeback’.
Kannadi, saar, adhu!
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Madan
September 11, 2021
“Is this specifically addressed to me? Anyway, I believe I’ve made myself clear.” – No you haven’t. You have only given a vague “I also have my biases” reply. You have not addressed my pointed questions to you about Kamal and have completely avoided them in fact. I don’t think it is worth continuing this discussion anyway so in closing…
“do you even acknowledge the existence of Brahmin Tamil?” – And are you trying to claim that Brahmin Tamil is ‘wrong’?
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Mr. Oberoi, aka Honest Raj
September 11, 2021
You have not addressed my pointed questions to you about Kamal and have completely avoided them in fact.
Oh sure, but before that can you explain what differentiates a ‘Iyengar nose’ from that of the rest?
And are you trying to claim that Brahmin Tamil is ‘wrong’?
Not sure I’ve implied anything of that sort. If anything, the transliteration (if one could call it that) isn’t fully understandable at all.
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Madan
September 11, 2021
“Oh sure, but before that can you explain what differentiates a ‘Iyengar nose’ from that of the rest?” – So basically one thing Kamal said is enough to hold him guilty in your court. Thanks. That is all the information I need.
“Not sure I’ve implied anything of that sort.” – You very much have. Enough of this. Do and say as you please.
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Nappinai (@Nappinai2)
September 12, 2021
“Isn’t that what I’ve been trying to say all the while? She could’ve chosen someone like Ambedkar, no?” – If you reduce a Bharatiyar to his caste, then I don’t see a point in engaging in this discussion anymore.
All I can say is, hope you can look beyond the artistes’ caste and wish you the best.
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Mr. Oberoi, aka Honest Raj
September 12, 2021
If you reduce a Bharatiyar to his caste, then I don’t see a point in engaging in this discussion anymore.
By moving the goalpost from Suhasini to Bharathi, you have confirmed that Suhasini and you are indeed biased towards caste.
Suhasini is an atheist in RL, but identifies herself as a Iyengar woman and takes utmost pride in following the tradition. When someone points this out, they’re asked to look beyond caste, while she continues to remain casteless.
So basically one thing Kamal said is enough to hold him guilty in your court … You very much have.
So questioning your transliteration tantamounts to invalidating the entire community? Sigh, talk about bias?
About the nose part, I was only questioning his atheist/rationalist stance. Off screen, he has said nonsensical things on plenty of occasions – I’ll reserve that for another day.
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Anand
February 17, 2022
Hi BR,
I just wanted to revisit this article which I read long back but this page contains link to Kala review not “let’s talk about bias”. Please update.
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