It’s usual to see increased levels of discussion when it comes to big films. It’s also not surprising to see more people chiming in to say “yes, I agree with you” or “I disagree.” But the Kaala discussions have been unusually sobering. When I wrote the imaginary Q and A, some regular commenters here felt I was getting needlessly defensive — and I might have thought so too, if it wasn’t for this single tweet, which I found disgusting.
This is essentially accusing me of caste-based discrimination. Feel free to mock me about my affection for latter-day Mani Ratnam, or Kamal’s Mumbai XPress (to take an instance where I was in the minority). But as long as the discussion is on aesthetic grounds, it’s totally legit.
I have never censored any criticism on this blog. Even today, a commenter named Vandana had this to say “Both MR and Kamal are the most overrated artistes…. For example Kaatru veliyidai, kadal were pathetic movies, a torture to watch. You simply don’t want to accept that the movie is horrible…”
This is an aesthetic opinion. I could argue till the cows come home about how “Kaatru veliyidai, kadal were pathetic movies” is not a written-in-stone verdict and opinions can differ, but that’s different.
But this toxic tweet is not the same case. If you are accusing me of following a “definitive pattern” of discriminating against a “non-Brahmin filmmaker,” then the burden of proof falls on you. Or at least ask me, so I can point to my reviews of Visaranai or Pisasu (“Mysskin may be the only filmmaker around whose violence is rendered as some sort of poetry. “), or whatever.
There is no mention in many reviews of either Mani Ratnam or Kamal Haasan. Or even in my reviews of Ranjith’s films, there are so many other films and filmmakers that I write about. Why single out only the Mani Ratnam/Kamal Haasan references to make your point?
But putting out an ill-considered tweet like this makes a lot of people believe that this is indeed where I am coming from — because they are not going to do the research, and very quickly, a tweet can become truth. And that’s something I am not going to take lying down.
So yes, call it defensive. But this is one time I felt I needed to defend myself.
Again, let’s meet during the Chekka Chivatha Vaanam release time and hash out the film, and if you feel my aesthetic evaluation is different from yours, by all means, tweet away. A bit of fun at expense of a public figure is par for the course.
But don’t bring caste into it, please.
PS: I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m throwing myself a pity party. I’m not. A lot of these comments have made me re-look through some of my writings, and that’s always a good thing.
PPS: I also understand now what a certain kind of… helplessness feels like, when you want to point something out but are pretty sure no one’s interested in listening.
Baradwaj Rangan 
sanjana
June 18, 2018
“PPS: I also understand now how a certain kind of… helplessness feels like, when you want to point something out but are pretty sure no one’s interested in listening.”
You are not alone in this. There are many celebrities who face this. Genuine angst by one taken advantage of and in the process a small lynch mob gets formed. Sometimes the lynch mob gets too big and becomes a sort of political movement supported by vested interests.
Fortunately you can still make people hear your voice.
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KR
June 18, 2018
You should have been honest and called him out for bringing your caste into it. This post should have ideally been about brahmins being soft targets in public platforms. I have often noticed you shying away from taking a clear stance on this probably because of the furore you might face. A critic of your calibre, I believe should have a political stance and not shy away from expressing those in his reviews. Look at any review from reverseshot.org and you will know where these critics are coming from.
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Ananth
June 18, 2018
What is laughably obvious is that Mani Ratnam and Kamal Hassan are far, far off from any Brahminical links as possible. Both are confirmed atheists and strong left-wingers and have expressed openly these strong views. And, to boot, they would feel very offended if talked of as “Brahmin” film-makers.
In any case, many film critics and writers have expressed their views which are similar to BR’s. Yesterday’s ‘Hindu’ contains a critique of ‘Kaala’ in which it is clearly expressed that there is very little difference between the hero and villain.
And, off the track, a review like the one on “Race 3” is great fun. No point in wasting time and money. The review probably would provide more entertainment than the movie.
And, finally, let us accept that Kamal Hassan and Mani Ratnam, along with Balachander (Ah! I can hear, another one from the ‘b’ gang), Bharathirajaa and Sridhar have probably provided over 90% of the greatest films in Tamil film history.
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Deepa
June 18, 2018
I have been following you for ages, never felt there was a caste biased criticism. The FAQ in a way was required, otherwise such malicious distortions of productive criticism would end up making an indelible impression, completely unsolicited. It’s not defensive BR, it’s an exigency to ascertain your stand.
Have a good day.
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Rahul
June 18, 2018
That certainly is a disgusting comment. Anyone who knows you should also know that other than inherent and innate bias that is conditoned by nurture…your writing is pretty much a joy to read, especially your analysis or deconstruction of a movie or a scene.
Having said that, I also believe that you give a slightly longer rope to MR and Kamal Hassan and sometimes go to the extent of foisting meanings to their work that was probably not even intended. But that again is a subtextual reading of your experience and anyone is entitled to their own perspective of a movie or any work of art.
Keep writing.
Cheers,
Rahul
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Vivek narain
June 18, 2018
Those who can’t make it to a wikipedia page by themselves often make it by skepticism and sarcasm and direct attack.
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Jetlagged
June 18, 2018
No no….we are all interested. Please don’t stop. Don’t take it lying down.
The tweet itself is a caste based discrimination I feel.
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Madan
June 18, 2018
KR: While calling him out would be admirable in theory, he will only attract more hateful comments if he tries to do so. He will likely also receive lectures on privilege. Basically everything except support which will be scant. There will be a backlash to this write up too. He can and should defend himself and clarify where he stands to the fence sitters. But those minds that have already been made up cannot be changed. As far as Chennai is concerned, every part of your identity flows from your religion, your caste, your locality, school etc. You as a person have no agency of your own in making your choices and developing your values. Not saying no Chennaiite has agency, obviously, but this is the way arguments are framed. Always grouping people into tribes and presuming their stance to be what you want it to be so you can outrage against it.
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Siva
June 18, 2018
BR: ” But don’t bring caste into it, please. ”
But that’s the easy way out, no? Let us consider two scenarios to find out which one does not require any effort whatsoever.
1) Opposing BR’s review on a factual standpoint, by listing out the negatives listed out in the review, one by one, and then countering each point with one’s own opinion.
2) Opposing BR’s review by subverting all attention away from the aspects of the movie that did not work for him on several accounts, by simply cooking up a Faceboook Post (such as the one quoted in this article) to blow up his caste.
Of course, a troll, and a smart troll at that, would choose the easier way out.
Hence ranted.
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harish ram
June 18, 2018
So can we expect you to make a video saying, ‘na Mani Ratnam & GVM pathi pesrathu thaan Unaku prechanai na, na pesuven da, style-a getha, prose-a, 2000 words la, mudinja thaduthu paaru da’?
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Srija
June 18, 2018
BR sir, as a regular reader of your blog, I was quite irritated when I saw that comment as well.
That is his 15 seconds of fame and he probably does it just for that – a stance just to gain visibility. He’s done it again for the stand up Comedian Karthik Kumar. Worse still, there is this person in TNM who fans his posts, hails them as being ‘revolutionary’. It’s like this mutual fanning of sorts.
And both these people take pleasure in claiming to be so secular when the reality is that they are as intolerant as it can ever get. Scorning and scoffing at everything that’s brahminical. When in fact, they’ve had a previleged background themselves! Oh, never would they ackowledge THAT though!!
The point of all this being – they have social media space, so they will outrage. Beyond that though, they will not do anything productive. If you think you can talk sense with them, you should first know you can’t. This isn’t the first time they are throwing stones and this isn’t the last time either. Learn to cope with it BR, this is our sad reality.
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Srija
June 18, 2018
Oh oh, going by the history of this intellectual’s post, his first response am sure is going to be ‘this wasn’t a tweet, this was a post on FB!’. I wouldn’t put this beyond him.
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Sanchit
June 18, 2018
This is shocking – he is from my sisters batch in b school.
All I can say is that those harping on casteism using words like savarna, reservations, etc. are ones who do a 2 year b-school course in 3 years, ultimately using the said b schools name at the same time mocking everyone else of their privilege.
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sanjana
June 18, 2018
When a film maker is making a controversial film with lots of political and social statements, how can the review be less controversial? One cant agree with certain aspects the way they are depicted though broadly one may accept the ideology behind them. Sometimes one may not agree even broadly with an ideology but if a work has other merits, it will get a thumbs up.
I dont agree with some of the views of Ayn Rand but I appreciate her talent as a writer.
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Anon
June 18, 2018
I am forced to reflect on how respectful Ranjith is at the same time bringing attention to whatever he wants to say – like in interviews. And there are people barking like this. Caste-a pathi pesaravunellam Ranjith illa!
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reelorola
June 18, 2018
“Ama brahmin dhan, brahmin filmmakers dhan, brahmin reviewers dhan, the greatest 3 artists in tamil cinema are all brahmins dhan KB, MR and KH..Vaali, Balakumaran ..en Bharathiar kooda brahmin dhan.. Idhu pudikala poi saavuda” nu ezhudhama you wrote a remarkable riposte, well done BR.
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reelorola
June 18, 2018
Anon – Precisely! I respect Ranjth hell a lot, an important beautiful voice which is needed high time! Just wish he goes back to his Madras days.
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Thupparivaalan
June 18, 2018
Sorry you had to go through that BR. Those who have read your reviews always know where you are coming from, but the twitteratis sadly have the ability to draw a certain picture of someone on unsuspecting minds easily. You have done right by writing that Q&A.
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Srinivas R
June 18, 2018
Social media is a medium where our biases get amplified. If you have a slight right wing bent, social media will crowd you with posts that will take you further down the right wing hole. If you are of a slight left wing bias, then you will soon be crowded by posts that strengthen your left leaning tendencies, ignoring the many extremes of the same. This happens for all ideologies. Add to this the speed at which false news travels and you have a polarized universe on the internet. So this sort of mindless post on social media is normal and everyday several people become collateral damage.
Of course, you know all this and it is, as you say a helpless situation when you face such an unsubstantiated attack. The only social media interaction i have is through this blog. I don’t know if you can get off FB and twitter. I would suggest even at the cost of some readership, you should try it, to see how it works. Ultimately, some idiot is going to vomit something on the internet. Since this Kaala review has got attention, you are going to attract more such comments. IMO, it’s not worth responding to such negativity.
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bala
June 18, 2018
I can completely empathize with you when you say that your biases, if any, have nothing to do with any body’s caste. However, I saw this movie called “Hidden Figures”, a scene in which made me always think twice before expressing opinions in certain topics. The scene goes like this:
White female boss Vivian says this to Black female subordinate Dorothy (who in turn is a leader of other black female workers),
Vivian: Despite what you may think, I have nothing against y’all.
Dorothy: I know, I know you probably believe that.
This may not be a notable scene in world cinema, but it had a huge impact on me. We might not have anything against anybody, but evening turning a blind eye to some one else’s cause might be doing harm to their fight. We might be what one reporter called as “Nero’s guests” (again, he used it in a different context).
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Deepa
June 18, 2018
Not FAQ, (sorry, thats an error that went unnoticed) it’s Q&A. And let bitty ruminations not come as Shelly’s Rarely, rarely, comest thou, Spirit of Delight! …. Let it come more often.
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Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan
June 18, 2018
Well, the person whose Facebook post you have mentioned has not only been bashing you. Poor Sudhish Kamath has been bashed left, right and centre as well. One guy, in the comments section of one of Mr. Rajesh’s posts that have been aimed at you, has even questioned your article on the last scene of Padmaavat on the grounds of casteism and you not getting the social statement of the Rajput glorification (SMH!).The amount of hate these guys are spreading on social media is worse than any kind of virus, BR. As Mr. Srinivas has mentioned above, social media is a vicious cycle and almost all of us are in a helpless situation as most people do not want to listen to the actual opinion of a person. All they want is to hear what they want.
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harish ram
June 18, 2018
@Sanchit: I am pondering as I write this. I am also not sure whether my perspective is correct here.
Nevertheless, I think you have inadvertently profiled him, which is the opposite of this post’s intention. While many others in the comments section has done so, the specificity of your point is creating a stronger impact on me. My classmate in b school was a British royalty. That person too took 3 years to complete, a one year course at that. With this limited info, one can easily paint a negative picture while the reality is quite unique.
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Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan
June 18, 2018
Sorry I left my previous comment incomplete.
All they want is to hear what they want to hear, and those are just the echoes of their opinions. Most people in social media never want to come out of the shell they have built for themselves. This will hold good for people who support left wing, right wing, centre wing and whichever wing that exists.
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Rahini David
June 18, 2018
What I started writing as a comment became big enough to be a post.
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brangan
June 18, 2018
Rahini: Great post — also, thanks for weighing in on the imaginary Q and A. (MANK, you too!) Your inputs really helped to streamline an unwieldy piece.
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sridharraman
June 18, 2018
All I can say is that those harping on casteism using words like savarna, reservations, etc. are ones who do a 2 year b-school course in 3 years, ultimately using the said b schools name at the same time mocking everyone else of their privilege
Wow! I am just staggered by this comment. In a short paragraph, it takes a dig at people taking longer to complete (arbitrarily) pre-set courses, mis-understanding privilege … and what not.
I am not sure if this was the intended effect of your post, @brangan, but it’s quite unfortunate.
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rsylviana
June 18, 2018
@Srija – All due respect, but please don’t club Mr.Karthik Kumar and BR together. Both of them have nothing in common other than the fact that they both belong to the b-community and some people troll both of them on the same basis (one of them who definitely doesn’t deserve it).
Not only are Mr.Karthik’s jokes unfunny (IMO) but also most of his jokes follow the pattern of the memes that were once shared extensively from pages like ‘The Tam Brahm community” or “Things you know if you are a TamBrahm” . Such pages were/are started and run mostly to boost a specific caste/community’s pride and ego by seemingly pulling their leg.
BR’s analyisis of the movies he watches through his own lenses and job description is a far cry from it .
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Rajeev Hari Kumar
June 18, 2018
BR, while I too went ‘WTF’ when I read that post (btw, it’s really more of a post than a tweet. Forgive me for my nitpickery), I feel like you’re misrepresenting his argument a bit. He said that you’re biased against films made by non-Brahmin filmmakers in the mainstream commercial genre. Do films like Visaranai and Pisasu really fall under that bracket? As far as I can tell, the only real commercial film that Vetri Maaran has done is Polladhavan. The rest are either somewhat off-beat or niche. As for Mysskin, with the exception of his first film, has he ever really done anything good in the mainstream commercial genre? Mugamoodi pretty much tanked, no?
Now, before anyone gets the idea that I’m trying to lend credence to Mr.Rajesh’s argument, let me list a few films made by non-Brahmins in the mainstream commercial genre that BR has been appreciative of: Pandiya Nadu, Idhu Namma Aalu, Sethupathi, Meyaadha Maan, Pandigai, Theeran: Adhigaram Ondru. The point was that the films that BR mentioned didn’t really strengthen his argument, IMO.
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Anu Warrier
June 18, 2018
BR, I’m one of your readers who felt that your initial Q and A post came off as defensive. To some extent, I still think it was. But that was merely my reading of it – it was not to say that you shouldn’t explain your reasoning.
I agree that there has to be a rebuttal. Once upon a time, a rumour that was starved of responses died a natural death. Today, with social media platforms, it’s appalling how any stated opinion becomes ‘fact’ and is a truth writ in stone.
To that extent, I’m glad that you put forth a rebuttal.
Again, to be fair, I do think you give Manirathnam and Kamal a long rope. But I’ve always put that down to your admiration for their talent; a typical fanboy response that is tempered by the critic in you, that is. I understand that very well – it is the same reason I would look for the good in an Amitabh film, say.
I’ve been reading you for a long time, and I do think you’re pretty tone-deaf to a few things (:) but I’ve never seen undertones of caste bias in your writing. It would be a shame if you allowed this distasteful episode to curtail your expression or to self-censor it.
I would put this as a piece on First Post or FC – just so there’s an official record of your reasoning for those who care to find it.
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brangan
June 18, 2018
Rajeev Hari Kumar: I agree about Pisaasu, but the point was that that even the Ranjith films had other references that were conveniently ignored.
Anyway, talking about filmmakers as brahmins or non-brahmins instead of artists is making my stomach churn. I mean, who even thinks this way? Does anyone care which caste Ilayaraja or MSV or Rahman or SPB belong to? Seriously!
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Rajeev Hari Kumar
June 18, 2018
BR, while I too went ‘WTF’ when I saw that post (it really is more of a post than a tweet, sorry for my nitpickery), I feel like you might be misrepresenting his argument. He said that you have a casteist bias against non-Brahmin filmmakers who make films in the mainstream commercial genre. Do films like ‘Visaranai’ and ‘Pisasu’ really fall under that bracket? The only real ‘commercial’ film that Vetri Maaran has done is ‘Polladhavan’, the rest are either somewhat off-beat or niche. As for Mysskin, with the exception of ‘Chithiram Pesuthadi’ (and, if you’re looking to be somewhat charitable, ‘Thupparivalan’), has he really done anything that can be considered “commercial” within the traditional sense of the term? ‘Mugamoodi’ was pretty much a failure critically and commercially, no?
Before anyone gets the idea that I’m trying to lend credence to Mr.Rajesh’s argument, allow me to present films made by non-Brahmins in the mainstream commercial genre that have been reviewed positively by BR: Paandiya Nadu, Sairat, Pandigai, Sethupathi, Idhu Namma Aalu, Theeran: Adhigaram Ondru etc etc. I just felt that the films presented as counter-evidence by BR in the post didn’t really bolster his argument, IMO.
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Madan
June 18, 2018
@Rajeev Hari Kumar: I noticed that and wanted to make the same point but since I don’t follow Tamil cinema that closely, decided against it. I think Rajesh intentionally framed the argument that way. That is, I don’t think BR has gone ga ga over a hardcore commercial film in a long time. He likes classy films which seem to be rare in Tamil cinema and Mani happens to be one of the few who still makes them. Rajesh intentionally used the caste angle to taint an aesthetic preference.
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Srinivas R
June 18, 2018
“Does anyone care which caste Ilayaraja or MSV or Rahman or SPB belong to? ” – Interesting comparison, but somehow music directors do not get pulled into this discussion. But film makers and actors always get pulled into this sort of discussion. I am not saying it’s right, but it is inevitable in a society where caste is very deeply entrenched in our consciousness. I know people who will refuse to watch a movie starring Sidharth because he is a Brahmin and I also know people who will hold up Madhavan as a great actor because of his caste. It’ ugly but that’s the world we live in.
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KV
June 18, 2018
It used to be that we would take a few years to catch on to the best / ape the worst practices from the 1st world but with the advent of social media , now it’s near instanteous , especially the fake and magnified outrage along with the “hurr durr – me and my communities feelings have been hurt”
In a world driven by likes and retweets of fake news and improbable facts disguised as the absolute truths , when even the “Leader of the Free World” is as equally gulity of doing likewise – there are always going to be people who would take the easy way out by appealing to the lowest basest instincts – casteism as opposed to egalitarianism, nationalism as opposed to patriotism
BR – as Michelle Obama said it best – When they go low , we go high.
That’s probably the only way to shame these folks.
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rsylviana
June 18, 2018
Anyway, talking about filmmakers as brahmins or non-brahmins instead of artists is making my stomach churn. I mean, who even thinks this way? Does anyone care which caste Ilayaraja or MSV or Rahman or SPB belong to? Seriously!
@BR – Apparently they did/do. Isn’t it a well-known rumour that P.Susheela refused to record any songs for Ilayaraja when he was a new composer, just because he belonged to the lower caste ? Many people claim that the reason Ilayaraja has shied away from openly admitting his caste is because of similar incidents faced by him in the industry in his earlier days. But since these are just rumours spread around the time , we have no option of verifying the truth.
Coming to the normal audience , again sadly yes. Starting from Maniratnam and Balachandar to the very recent Ranjith, audience continue to judge films/art based on the creator’s caste . And certainly not helping matters are people like K.S.Ravikumar and the other director who made that infamous Gautam Karthik flick , who make films flaunting their caste superiority (both openly and discretely).
P.S – When talking about Ranjith, I mean the memes that are shared around the thoughts like ‘Leave Rajini alone and go back to making movies with people from YOUR kind ‘ and ‘No wonder Kaala and Kabali are bad. What more can you expect from a Dalit filmmaker ?’
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brangan
June 18, 2018
Right, I realise “who even thinks this way?” was a rather sweeping and pompous-sounding statement. I realise people do. But it’s just…
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Madan
June 18, 2018
“Interesting comparison, but somehow music directors do not get pulled into this discussion. ” – Film music has remained apolitical. Even when it is used in a political way like MGR songs, it is clear that it is only a vehicle for the star and not political by itself. This may be the reason why nobody, well not nobody but not most people, talks about the music director’s caste or makes the caste a reason to like or dislike the composer’s music. Also, music is audio and elicits a more visceral reaction from the audience. So once you have heard and liked a piece of music, it is difficult to convince yourself not to do so even if you want to say because so and so is brahmin/non brahmin.
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GODZ
June 18, 2018
IMO..Unfortunately, BR did a wrong move on this. These are haters who should be ignored right away. Whether its right or left, making a rational argument with these haters is the last thing one can do. You cannot win that argument no matter how rational or legitimate you are. Social media is a perfect heaven for bullies. By posting his twitter in this blog, What BR did was giving a wider audience to his tweet which is what the hater wants exactly.
He or the haters does not care the rationality or logic or evidence behind their arguments. All they care is to spread the fire. That does not mean one has to quit social media. The presence of sane voice in social media is more important than before.
This argument is not going to end. One can also make an argument that BR gave zero stars to Race 3 because Salman is a Muslim and BR is a Hindu. Its never going to end. That’s the next level and the natural progression of these hate comments. The best and only option is to ignore it. PERIOD.
I don’t even want to go into the argument of whether BR is a brahmin or non-Brahmin or whether he is biased or not. A writer- Reader relationship is very personal. To put bluntly, its like relationship between Mother-Son or Husband-Wife. I am not sentimental here. Frankly, others opinion is none of their business and its entirely up to a Reader to decide. If a reader gets influenced by these comments rather than using his rational thinking, then maybe those readers don’t deserve a good writer. And its not a writers business to prove anything just like it’s not a wife’s or husband business to prove his fidelity.
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Madan
June 18, 2018
“Isn’t it a well-known rumour that P.Susheela refused to record any songs for Ilayaraja when he was a new composer, just because he belonged to the lower caste ?” – Considering that she did record a song on his very first film when he was a total nobody, I am not sure how much credence to lend to his rumour. On the contrary, I have heard another story, again possibly completely untrue, that when IR was still a guitar player/assistant, he had come up with a song which he offered PS to sing, just like that. And when she struggled with the melody, she dissed his song to preserve her ego. He apparently remembered this slight and once he became successful, he stopped giving her songs. She didn’t realise it was the same Raja and was puzzled why he was rejecting her and then he reminded her of that incident upon which she begged forgiveness. Again, I have serious doubts about this story because from Kaalidasan Kannadasan coming up to Muthumani Maalai, IR has given many of his classics to PS. A more famous split which is often attributed to caste is IR-Vairamuthu.
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kaizokukeshav
June 18, 2018
Sathya was made by Ram Gopal Varma – a non-Brahmin
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brangan
June 18, 2018
GODZ: And its not a writers business to prove anything just like it’s not a wife’s or husband business to prove his fidelity.
I’m still mulling over this point, but boy, does it sound amazing. Thank you GODZ!
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jaga_jaga
June 18, 2018
@Madan – Can you kindly share the alleged spat between IR and Vairamuthu? What was that about?
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rsylviana
June 18, 2018
@Madan – I have heard that little rumour from my relatives and even a couple of my college friends so thought it was an open secret. Maybe it wasn’t as popular as I thought it was.
@GODZ – One can also make an argument that BR gave zero stars to Race 3 because Salman is a Muslim and BR is a Hindu.
Just the absurdity of it all made me LOL !! Still chuckling… 😀
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Madan
June 18, 2018
jaga_jaga: Have heard that Vairamuthu used some casteist slur on IR which the latter took very seriously and apparently even threatened to sue him for. Again, all hearsay, which is why I said ‘attributed to’.
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Vivek narain
June 18, 2018
There are audio systems that are hi-fi and also lo-fi,doesn’t depend on fancy money but rather on how luddite you’re ready to be. For classic things created in 50s and 60s you need the the synchronised gadget for proper reproduction, entertainment, joy, exhilaration. I mean the vinyl player with needle for the vinyl disc. The other meanings of fidelity follow similar pattern to get a hi, you have to be a luddite, a chivalrous knight errant.Though the best i’ve managed to be,as i’ve said earlier, is being a chivalrous cad.
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shaviswa
June 18, 2018
This discussion can happen only with respect to Tamil films I guess. Thanks to decades of anti-brahmin talk by the politicians and by famous people, it has become a de facto line of argument for anyone. The moment you disagree with someone, bring in the TamrBram angle and silence the person.
I faced this situation for the first time when I stepped out of my cosy environments in Chennai to go up North. After the initial affinity to stay within the Tamil crowd in the hostel, I realized that it was better to stay away as a lot of hostel chit chat descended into discussion about caste and a lot of anti-brahmin, anti-Hindu talk started coming up. I moved away from most Tamil groups and stuck to my classmates and people from other states where we used to discuss many topics without bringing in any caste angle. I was shocked at how I was spoken to at times.
With social media allowing anything to be said to anyone, I am not surprised that people like BR are being targetted.
If Kamal was making his debut in films today, he has no chance of becoming the star that he now is. The animosity and hatred that brahmins face today is many times more than what is was in the 70s and 80s.
@Brangan – if I were you, I would have ignored the tweet and probably blocked the user. There is no point in providing rebuttals to such vicious posts in social media.
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jaga_jaga
June 18, 2018
Thanks, Madan!
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Thupparivaalan
June 18, 2018
Madan, Jaga Jaga: I heard the same rumor but was told it was LR Easwari instead, though it might be pure gossip.
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Rajeev Hari Kumar
June 18, 2018
@Madan –
“I don’t think BR has gone ga ga over a hardcore commercial film in a long time.”
I haven’t frequented this blog all that often in the last few months. Nor have I kept abreast of the major releases in Tamil cinema. But if I remember correctly, BR quite liked Thaana Serntha Kootam.
“He likes classy films which seem to be rare in Tamil cinema and Mani happens to be one of the few who still makes them.”
True. That said, as a long time reader, you should know that few people enjoy a nalla – or, on occassion, even a slightly mokkai – commercial padam as much as BR. Bloody hell, I remember him drawing a lot of flak for being mildly positive about a film like R….Rajkumar.
“Rajesh intentionally used the caste angle to taint an aesthetic preference.”
Oh, absolutely.
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harish ram
June 18, 2018
@Madan: I heard another version of the IR susheela saga. IR as an assistant to another composer (dono who) was guiding Susheela through the song rehearsals. She didn’t like that he was correcting her a lot. So she said only if he is out of the studio she will record the song.
About IR Varaimuthu spat, i always thought, and still going to hold that it was more of a creative ego clash, considering how it’s consistent with both IR and Vairamuthu’s image in the outside world of not being accommodating.
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Arjun
June 18, 2018
“Social media is a medium where our biases get amplified. If you have a slight right wing bent, social media will crowd you with posts that will take you further down the right wing hole. If you are of a slight left wing bias, then you will soon be crowded by posts that strengthen your left leaning tendencies, ignoring the many extremes of the same. ”
Well said. It is better for apolitical people and those with moderate views to entirely stay off social media, particularly twitter. It was always known in the AI community, but now after the Cambridge analytica revelations, common people should realize how good AI has got at manipulating opinions and emotions, inexorably sucking people into a vortex based simply on slight initial tilts.
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Aadhy
June 18, 2018
The case of Ilayaraja is very interesting. On one hand, there are countless stories, rumors or not, of him having faced insurmountable difficulties during his early days in the industry. Wasn’t one of his 70’s songs banned by All India Radio ’cause it had lines about dalit assertion? Those lyrics were supposedly re-used by Gangai Amaren in Chennai 600 028 in a song which goes “Mela yeri varom nee odhingi nillu, keezha eranga sonna ada yegurum pallu ” . On the other hand, Ilayaraja apparently hated the dalit identity and did his darnedest to project himself as a pious Hindu. He wanted acceptance from the ‘purists’ and the industry alike, which considered only carnatic music to be good. He learnt carnatic music from T.V.Gopalakrishnan, associated himself with carnatic stalwarts like Madurai T.Srinivasan, producing songs like ‘Janani Janani’ that gave him his much-yearned carnatic music credentials.
He also filed a ‘defamation’ case against folklorist K.A.Gunasekaran for referring to him as a dalit in Gunasekaran’s book. That he is a follower of Ramana Maharishi being no secret, he also holds some title that’s conferred to him by Kanchi Mutt. Nevertheless the way he mainstreamed folk music, breaking the notions of accepted forms of music while also being good at it, is nothing short of a revolution, only to be succeeded by none other than Deva in mainstreaming marginalized people’s music through gaana. Rahman did a few folk-y albums like Sangamam but it wasn’t specifically about the dalit community.
I disagree that tamil film music is apolitical. Art is political. It depends only on whether you want to look at it through a political prism or not. The composers themselves might not been identified by their castes. But the form of music that dominated cinema, the lyrics used, the stories that were told, were always reflected by the politics of the cine-industry and publicly accepted narratives in which caste was (and perhaps still is ) an important factor.
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Arjun
June 18, 2018
” heard another version of the IR susheela saga. IR as an assistant to another composer (dono who) was guiding Susheela through the song rehearsals. She didn’t like that he was correcting her a lot. So she said only if he is out of the studio she will record the song.
About IR Varaimuthu spat, i always thought, and still going to hold that it was more of a creative ego clash, considering how it’s consistent with both IR and Vairamuthu’s image in the outside world of not being accommodating.”
All of these probably started as mundane ego-clashes, creative disagreements which perhaps or perhaps not, escalated to the point where one of the parties in the heat of the moment blurted with casteist undertones. And because of the way caste inevitably gets linked to everything in Tamil Nadu, these stories started going around. I don’t think either Vairamuthu or Susheela had any caste-bias per-se. I mean look at all those early 80s photos of IR and Vairamuthu. They look like BFFs!!
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Eswar
June 19, 2018
This is more about Bias in general.
How does one know that they are not biased? If one cannot know the state of their bias in the first place, how can they prove it? And if they cannot know or prove their bias, how can they ascertain which elements — like caste, colour, religion etc, they are biased to and which elements has not influenced them.
A deep introspection may show some indication about our biases, but still it will be only an indication rather than a definitive answer. The way a brain processes a thought is so complex, I think, it’s difficult to conclude what the brain took into consideration in order to process that thought. Many times, I think, our rationalisation is only a post-hoc analysis to what the brain has already reacted. This means we may never ever know if we are biased or unbiased. This also means we may never know the full intentions of our actions.
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Honest Raj
June 19, 2018
kaizokukeshav: The film that is being referred to here is the Kamal starrer. It was co-written by Ananthu and directed by Suresh Krissna. Maybe, the OP has a point. 😛
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therag
June 19, 2018
TN on the whole is still anti-brahmin, but anti-brahminism is a spent force as far as Tamil politics is concerned. Only lower-grade trolls and Seeman seem to be using the anti-brahmin rhetoric quite virulently. The people sharing these posts are a very small minority (thankfully). So I agree with the posters above that BR should have ignored it.
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Ravi K
June 19, 2018
If someone had said something like “BR didn’t understand some of the Dalit subtext and references in the movie, since he is a Brahmin [or a non-Dalit],” that would be a fair comment about missing something due to unfamiliarity with the milieu of the film. But the angle he chose to take was needlessly antagonistic.
kaizokukeshav, he must be referring to the Tamil film “Sathya” starring Kamal Hassan, not “Satya” directed by RGV.
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Enigma
June 19, 2018
BR, you may wish to ignore such casteist non-entities in future. Who is this guy? Just some stupid loser with an internet connection. Just ignore these jokers.
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Madan
June 19, 2018
“But if I remember correctly, BR quite liked Thaana Serntha Kootam.” – Right but that is a remake of Special 26 so even after ‘massy-fying’ it, it still retains much of the tautness of the original. Besides, Surya is the least mass out of Vijay/ Ajith/ Vikram/ Surya. I was really thinking of out and out mass films. BR himself sums it up in the review:
“After Theeran Adhigaram Ondru and this film, let’s hope it’s a new era for big stars. We’re not really asking for art films; just engaging commercial films where the screenplay is more than just an excuse for four fights and five songs.”
” you should know that few people enjoy a nalla – or, on occassion, even a slightly mokkai – commercial padam as much as BR. Bloody hell, I remember him drawing a lot of flak for being mildly positive about a film like R….Rajkumar.” – Hmmm but I think those holding a brief for Kaala weren’t looking for damning with faint praise so much as superlatives like best film of the 21st and 22nd century or whatever. You cannot satisfy fanboys. And when fanboys resort to caste to vent their ire at a ‘biased’ review, it gets ugly.
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Arjun
June 19, 2018
“On the other hand, Ilayaraja apparently hated the dalit identity and did his darnedest to project himself as a pious Hindu. He wanted acceptance from the ‘purists’ and the industry alike, which considered only carnatic music to be good. He learnt carnatic music from T.V. Gopalakrishnan, associated himself with carnatic stalwarts like Madurai T.Srinivasan, producing songs like ‘Janani Janani’ that gave him his much-yearned carnatic music credentials.”
There are many things wrong with this reading. Example, see –
I don’t see what is wrong in him yearning recognition from carnatic purists or being a follower of Ramana Maharishi. To say doing that minimizes his “dalit” identity is to deny him his agency, and expecting him to conform to progressive liberal expectations of how a dalit ought to project his identity. Very similar to brahminical judging of dalits who converts to christianity as ricebag converts. Don’t forget that the same IR who composed Janani janani also composed many “matter songs” in the most pious ragas, shocking many purists. Even the liberal TM Krishna couldn’t stomach him subverting Thyagaraja’s composition in Sindhu Bhairavi. Even after he attained peak popularity, he continued expressing the “subaltern” (I use quotes for these words because I don’t like them) condition and identity through his music in innumerable ways.
If you have read Tamil writers from the paraiyar (not a slur word) community, many resent the “dalit” label. The word actually doesn’t have much meaning in Tamil Nadu until recent times with VCK and Thol Thiruma popularizing its usage in the mainstream, so IR not liking that label being attached should come as no surprise. For that matter, even the 2nd most important “dalit” leader in TN today, Krishnaswamy of PT katchi doesnt like his community being called dalits, instead prefering the term devendra kula velalars. So let “dalits” decide how they want to project their identity, and live their life whether as Hindus or Christians or whatever.
Anyway, listen to the Mathimaran interview. It’s pretty good.
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Kk
June 19, 2018
This is a bit of an overreaction for a post on someone’s personal facebook page considering , the post is not abusive and just points to a fact that you do compare most movies with sathya , nayagan and other kh , mr movies . And based on what standards these movies are reiterated as pinnacles of cinematic excellence in tamil cinema is a logical question. When you missed out on the dalit reference in madras or when you asked for mallippoo and thayir sadham in vazhakku enn review you were clearly exhibiting your limitations as someone whose world view is confined to your background ( roughly caste ) . So naturally , your repeated endorsements of certain films , stand out . It is a valid criticism . Hope next time you face it fair and square instead ot naming and shaming the critic
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(Original) Venkatesh
June 19, 2018
Holy Fuck.
We are still in the 19th Century i take it.
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Sankaranarayanan
June 19, 2018
I am nitpicking. But myskin is a brahmin. Just for information.😉
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sai16vicky
June 19, 2018
Disclaimer — This comment (rant) is only for this post and your general inclination towards free speech/free society. I have nothing but the greatest respect for your body of work as a film critic. I am immensely grateful to you (and other commenters here) for letting me hold your hands (through this blog) while I learnt to walk through the lanes of good cinema.
Ok, let’s take the issue that has bothered you, shall we? One of the tweets has called out on you for having a casteist bias. But from his tweet (I haven’t seen the other comments on the tweet), he has been civil about it. He hasn’t called you names or used cuss-words against you. And you’re saying that this has bothered you, personally affected you, yada, yada. Let me call out a few examples where you have done the same.
During the opposition to the movie PK: You came out in the open arguing for why the movie should be released. Why artistic freedom is important and blah. The movie personally affected me. It mocked my belief systems that I have been brought up with since 26 years. I would take constructive criticism any day a mockery? That too a biased one. I felt helpless at that point (note that word again).
Support for Padmavaat: You came out and called the oppositions as patently ridiculous. And went on claim that SLB is a Hindu drawn to Hindu stories. Further, you went on to say that play with the Gods and you no longer have any artistic freedom. I am not a Rajput by birth but I know what Padmavati meant to folks of that region (thanks to a couple of my friends). They felt helpless and they felt mocked by a calculated distortion of their belief systems again.
So what do you think? When it happens to you, you seem to be playing a victim card saying what would people think about your reviewing style etc. What will people think of the queen Padmavati after watching Padmavaat? What does a foreigner think about Hinduism and our great land that has given Gurus like Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Swami Vivekananda or Ramana Maharishi after watching PK?
This is precisely the issue with proponents of free speech/society/liberals. When nothing happens to them, they keep advocating all this and when it happens to them, they start playing the victim card fearing about their reputation.
Hyprocisy I say!
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Raja S V
June 19, 2018
I don’t know what is surprising here. The poraalis have taken over the social media space in TN, and anything remotely sounding B is kizhichu thoranam thonga vittufied, without any sense of guilt, without any effort on being objective, and losing all sense of fairness. The poraalis fighting against discrimination, are the ones who are discriminating. Ironies galore.
Movie makers are taking it to the next level. Names like Arun Subramanian are being given to villian roles. IT office goer roles are shown as ambi caricatures and any quintessential B guy is shown to be a coward / selfish / backstabbing fellow. I still remember the movie E with disgust on what was the compulsion to show the villian doctor with a Naamam – when the negativeness of the character is based on the profession and not the caste.
I am definitely not a B sympathizer, but I hate hypocrisy.
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brangan
June 19, 2018
sai16vicky: How have I deviated from my free speech stand?
Have I asked this person to take down his post / tweet?
Have I threatened him with a defamation suit?
He posted something in a public space and I posted my piece similarly (not even on my official FC space, but on my personal blog).
Which part of this is anti-free speech?
Free speech doesn’t mean you cannot have an opinion on someone else’s free speech, FYI.
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brangan
June 19, 2018
Kk: I am naming and shaming the critic? That’s rich! Thanks for the laugh 😀
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sai16vicky
June 19, 2018
You have played the victim card. And you have gotten all defensive to retain your reputation. Further, you have attempted to gain sympathy based on your helplessness. If you are the ideal proponent of free speech that you claim to be, why should you do all this? In particular, if people who oppose PK or Padmavaat play the same victim card and do all what you have done, would you take their side?
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brangan
June 19, 2018
In particular, if people who oppose PK or Padmavaat play the same victim card and do all what you have done, would you take their side?
Huh? Clearly, you and I have very different ideas about free speech. It’s not about… taking sides. It’s about not stopping someone from saying something.
I never opposed anyone who opposed PK or Padmaavat. They said their piece. I said mine.
And I’m sorry, but it is almost a lie when someone selectively fishes out two names out of many names I have named in reviews and makes a case for a casteist preference.
If he can state his piece, so can I.
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Madan
June 19, 2018
@sai16vicky: I did not realize that criticising somebody’s comment (which by the way happens EVERYDAY on social media) is as grave an offence as calling for a ban on the film or threatening to behead a director but thanks for proving that whataboutery is a bottomless abyss.
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Ravi K
June 19, 2018
sai16vicky, do you even have a basic grasp of the concept of free speech? Free speech doesn’t mean that if someone attacks you or says something ignorant then you should just shut up and take it.
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Aadhy
June 19, 2018
Arjun : That was an eye-opening interview. Thanks for sharing.
I agree to parts of your comment. ” Don’t forget that the same IR who composed Janani janani also composed many “matter songs” in the most pious ragas, shocking many purists.”
I did say this in my comment “Nevertheless the way he mainstreamed folk music, breaking the notions of accepted forms of music while also being good at it, is nothing short of a revolution” .
I agree that dalits should have the agency to choose whatever lifestyle they want to follow, even if it’s brahminical. It’s his right to follow Ramana maharishi, Mahaperiyava or whoever he wants. My problem is when following such a life-style made ilayaraja do some casteist stuff that upper castes have been notorious for. This is where I part ways with your comment.
Dalit isn’t a bad word. It’s a word used to unite the oppressed to fight for their rights. Of course It’s upto them to choose if they want to associate themselves with the word or not. But if you choose to ditch the word ‘Dalit’ which is used as a clarion call for upliftment and instead take pride in identifying yourself as devendra kula vellalar, paraiyar or Arundatiyar, you’re no different from any upper caste bigot. Anyone who’s a follower of Ambedkar will call you out on that. Actually Ranjith mentioned the same thing recently at the demolition of Santhaiyur wall. Suyasaadhi perumai has to go, irrespective of any strata of caste one belongs to. And Krishnasamy? really? The dude who hounded filmmaker Divya Barathi for the documentary Kakoos saying that it showed Devendra kula vellalars in bad light, when the movie actually created more awareness for the abolition of manual scavenging than any political party has managed before. No wonder Ranjith, or any Ambedkarite for that matter is severely critical of Krishnaswamy. VCK, a paraiyar-dominated party broke this identification by supporting the demolition of the Santhaiyur wall built by paraiyars to keep the arundathiyars away. Credits to Thol. Thiruma for that.
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sai16vicky
June 19, 2018
But you mocked them. You called their faith system as being “patently ridiculous” (that’s the exact words used). My issue here is not with BR responding to the person who tweeted about his casteist bias but rather about the victim-card tone of it. If it was a cold rebuttal, then I wouldn’t even responded but it is miles away from it.
Let me restate my point again. If BR is feeling helpless and fears that his reputation would be tarnished because of a certain class of tweets, then why mock Rajputs when they fear that the reputation of their community will be tarnished because of a movie. But BR and other commenters here have mocked people who have had such fears in the past.
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sanjana
June 19, 2018
An individual reacting to another individual is different from politicised opposition turning into vandalising everything in sight.
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Blondie
June 19, 2018
I do not endorse the views of the person. What I do feel however is that you are biased and that pains a lot of people in their mid 20s who grew up reading your columns in The Hindu in their early college years and considered you to be radically different from the host of paid ones. It would be better for you if you could stop being biased towards a set of directors who seem to have a formed a mutual admiration group with you – Mani Ratnam, Mysskin and GVM among others. It doesn’t augur well for a reviewer if he curries favour for exclusive interviews and access to shooting spots (ala Thupparivalan)
Bah
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sai16vicky
June 19, 2018
@sanjana: I am not talking about the vandalisation aspect of it at all (in fact, I too condemn it). I am merely talking about the opposition aspect which many folks on the blog have mocked, bringing in the “artistic freedom” angle. Many of their thoughts in those comment threads came off as incredibly haughty and from a position of privilege.
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Arjun
June 20, 2018
@Aadhy: “My problem is when following such a life-style made ilayaraja do some casteist stuff that upper castes have been notorious for”
Huh, what? Like what, exactly?? That’s a serious allegation to make so casually.
I just cited Krishnasamy as a prominent example of a dalit politician who wants to shed that label (albeit in favor of another one). I don’t endorse his politics but I most certainly wont rank him alongside upper-caste bigots as you again casually do. Agreed that any suyasadhi perumai is bad, but many people also want to build a more positive if not triumphalist narrative for themselves rather than Gandhi’s patronising “Harijan” or the abject “dalit” – literally, broken. Intellectuals form the paraiyar community point out for example that there are inscriptions from the chola period alluding to their ancestors owning and even donating land, of them being sought-after music performers etc. Basically a more positivist narrative than “we’ve been continually repressed and broken”, which is not exactly false, but at the same time, can be demoralizing (“neenga eppovume engalukku adimaiya thaan irundhirukkinga”).
Also, like I said, dalit is not a bad word, but the dalit identity politics is relatively new to Tamil Nadu. The word dalit or for that matter even hindu doesn’t mean much to the majority of tamils, per-se.
P.S; I (mostly) support Thol Thiruma and his politics including his stance on demolishing the santhaiyur wall.
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Vivek narain
June 20, 2018
That’s what makes james hadley chase, the king. Chase leaned heavily on white superiority and yet thrashed the vanity of whites. Juana Roca, a mulatto,in ‘Cade’, destroyed the best of men, mostly whites and some of her own. Poke Toholo, a seminole indian , in ‘want to stay alive’, massacres the jerks who were, The arrogant The unkind and The patronizing.
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Rajeev Hari Kumar
June 20, 2018
Aaaaaand he’s responded:
“I have been told that Baradwaj Rangan is deeply hurt by one my posts. The post merely pointed out a very accurate fact that he finds it easy to like even the crappy movies of Brahmin filmmakers but has trouble appreciating the good ones by others. Unfortunately, he has responded in a very over-sensitive manner. I hope the concerned community members offer him enough emotional support in his comment section. Thanks.”
Plus, there’s this gem in the comments section as well:
“Ha ha. I hope when human civilization eventually progresses in the coming centuries, they would understand that pointing out the existence of caste, its network and functioning is not the same as ‘forcing caste into a casteless space’. :D”
Reminds me of this priceless quote: “People only see what they want to see.”
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Purple Sky
June 20, 2018
I think BR sir used the word helpless not because he was called a casteist. But because how the commenter chose to pick out only the details that conforms to or supports “his” bias and thereby glossing over references to all other movies BR sir had made. This is the ONLY point of contention.
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Rajeev Hari Kumar
June 20, 2018
@Madan – “but I think those holding a brief for Kaala weren’t looking for damning with faint praise so much as superlatives like best film of the 21st and 22nd century or whatever. You cannot satisfy fanboys. And when fanboys resort to caste to vent their ire at a ‘biased’ review, it gets ugly.”
I agree. That said, in fairness, I don’t know if Mr.Rajesh is a fanboy of Rajini (or Ranjith), but he’s clearly motivated by factors beyond just mere fandom (if it exists). Reminds me a bit of the reception that Black Panther received earlier this year. Hell, a black YouTuber even remarked, probably in jest, but he seemed pretty serious about how white people – barring critics, though there too there was pushback when a critic from Ireland (I think) published a negative review on Rotten Tomatoes, thereby ruining the perfect score the film had held up until that point. They found his reasoning to be unsatisfactory and began questioning him on his review – couldn’t even say anything negative about the film without being called names. It seems like many critics who’ve reviewed Kaala are having their Black Panther moment.
Speaking of reviews, have you read Sreehari Nair’s review of Kaala? I don’t see people ripping into him the way they are with BR. Maybe because he’s not as well known as BR (coupled with the fact that the review was published a week later when much of the buzz had died down). This despite the fact that he’s been quite critical of the film. His indifference towards masala movies aside (which, at its core, is what Kaala is), he’s pretty much dismantled the film. Genuinely surprised at how he’s managed to slip under the radar.
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Raj
June 20, 2018
@BR: Interesting topic. I am very interested as to why you were accused of the casteist preference. I feel the reviews/perspectives come from our experiences/environment we grew up and the exposure we have had. Its kind of your world in your mind and the happiness that comes out when you see that in the screen. The reason probably you did not appreciate some of the nuances in the movie Madras while many did. There might be a resonance between your thinking and probably Mani Ratnam/Kamal Hassan, agreement on subtleness in expression, their likes/dislikes might strike a cord with you. This might all be stemming all from the fact that your worldly views are in sync. Given that it is only natural for you to bring in their references as you feel that there is the way things need to be done… It happens subconsciously; To give a caste angle is disgusting; however,if it applies to BR may be it applies to all of us who strike a cord with our worldly views which for most of us (fortunately or unfortunately) are influenced by caste/religion…
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sanjana
June 20, 2018
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/hang-godmen-involved-in-illegal-activities-says-baba-ramdev-1870045?pfrom=home-topstories
PK was about fake godmen. It has OMG as predecessor which was more lethal and yet the protests for them was minimal. If Akshay Kumar was in PK instead of Aamir Khan, the protests would have been same as for OMG if not no protests.
I am here talking about protests fuelled by vested interests than about individuals.
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Madan
June 20, 2018
” You called their faith system as being “patently ridiculous””- Er, either your comprehension is impaired or you are reaching to double down on your position. Let me get the entire quote along with the article link itself here:
“Would you dare show these things if the film was about a Muslim or a Christian?” say those who defend what happened with Bhansali. It’s patently ridiculous.”
He’s calling a LINE OF ARGUMENT (as opposed to a faith system itself) ridiculous. Now I do not know if you are one of those more-enlightened-than-Gautama Buddha-souls who never calls an argument ridiculous even when it is but I am damn sure if you really were, then a movie like PK wouldn’t have offended you.
Further, read the sub-byline: “Dear liberals, if you think what happened with Bhansali was wrong, then you have to see ‘Kaabil’ for what it is, not what you want it to be.” He has in fact also taken liberals to task for their more polite opposition to Kaabil because in both cases, they want a scene/film to be made the way THEY want it, which goes against artistic freedom. BR has always defended free speech from those who want films to be banned. He has written this sort of article when Muslim lobby groups succeeded in getting some scenes snipped from Viswaroopam. Now you could criticise some liberals like Mani Shankar Aiyer for going soft on the attack by Muslim terrorists on Charlie Hebdo while taking VHP to task but you can’t accuse BR of double standards there.
Your argument has nothing to do with free speech. All you are doing is tone-policing BR, telling him how to say what he said, to not use words like “ridiculous” or “helpless” as the case may be. Not surprising since you do not understand free speech.
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vinjk
June 20, 2018
@sai16vicky so what if BR mocks people? so what if he feels victimised? he has every freedom to air his views on his personal blog. Seriously, do you even know what freedom of speech means?!
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You Know Who
June 20, 2018
Didn’t anyone know Alfred Hitchcock and Quentin Tarantino were Brahmins as well? They hid their identities. It was a well planned ruse. That’s why BR likes them all.
P.S. I don’t really know for sure if he likes them. Just picked the names off the top of my head. BR, please don’t tell me you don’t like them.
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Siva
June 20, 2018
BR: Oh, boy. This thread has become way too serious. I guess, for a change, it is time to lighten up your mood. I am taking a diversion from all of the Kaala, ideology, caste, quota and rebuttal talks in an attempt to do so.
Thing is, we have another Indian movie with a tagline releasing this week. And I know how much you adore(!?) 😂 a movie with a tagline that claims to be something (reminiscing on that Antony review, again 😀. Those were good times, yes).
Now, the keywords are:
The First Indian Space Film
I am waiting to see if you could resist (very tough, in my opinion; I definitely would though, if I reviewed it 🤓) referencing at least the following two movies:
1) Armageddon
2) Gravity
No, wait. Why don’t you actually recall these movies in the review, so that we can experiment to see if this time they accuse you of liking only Hollywood movies? (Yae Americccca Yaegaadhipaththiyamae, Ozhiga!)
I don’t know, BR, may be the trolls have the smarts to somehow drag caste into this too? 😕 😟
One thing I remember though. This movie is coming from the same director who gave us Miruthan!
PS: See, this is why we wanted a General/Requests thread, where I can post pointless posts such as this, instead of pointlessly(!) posting it in another thread which is active for an entirely different reason 🙂
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Prashila
June 20, 2018
Blondie, at least to me BR IS still radically different and will always be. And what he simply does not get acknowledged for is that he is an ‘Indian’ critic, having a view of North, South and much in between this crazy country. I would give him an award for contributing to National integration in his own little way.
As for the access to sets of films, etc, I am wondering if would that not be because of his new position as Editor of FC South? They are two completely different things IMHO. I feel his ADHM review was too lenient to a mediocre movie, but should I equate it to his acquaintance with KJo, especially given how much of a position of privilege KJo already is in. He doesn’t need a Baradwaj Rangan to endorse him if I may be very honest.
Same with KV which at least I who liked the movie a lot, felt he was quite critical of even as he had good things to say. Was it the 3.5 stars that annoyed people? I still wonder. That said I still feel the QnA as honest as it was will do no difference to people who want to think or get influenced. Social media works in only one way. I Agree with someone who said that even getting off it for a bit might not be a bad idea at all. BR I hope you don’t change your writing too much after this episode.
A sincere reader.
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Madhumitha Kamalakannan
June 20, 2018
Q: Why is the hate towards his review?
A: A person coming from a particular community that has been oppressed and is continuously being oppressed, wants to make a movie that expresses their angst, their standing, their culture, their understanding of the outer world, through a medium. Then it’s his choice.
The director chose ‘film’. A medium that he sometimes forgets is so powerful that it has let him forget about the artistic nuances. He lets go off all the ‘acquired knowledge’ of the medium and starts writing a script that is so engrossed in opinions rather than ‘art’.
You have reviewed the artistic piece. You find the flaws in it. You have focussed on only the technical part of the movie.
Now, please understand that your writing is also art and when someone looks at your piece through a caste stained glass, then let them do so.
Let Pa. Ranjith churn movies that go beyond art, he has chosen to do that. When BR criticizes his films, maybe we will get better movies from Ranjith.
Isn’t art supposed to question the system in a beautiful yet powerful way? I see a driven energy in Ranjith’s films. Maybe after few years, his technique will get polished. Who knows?
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Srinivas R
June 20, 2018
“One thing I remember though. This movie is coming from the same director who gave us Miruthan!” . I should have guessed it when I saw the trailer. The vilian guy looks so funny. I am expecting a Race 3 level review this weekend. Ok, may be not that bad, but definitely something funny.
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brangan
June 20, 2018
Rajeev Hari Kumar: Haha. Thanks for pointing out his response. This is further proof of the need for arts education, or at least understanding how the arts work.
It’s sad that even someone from a B school background uses words like “accurate fact” to describe evaluations like “crappy movies” and “good ones” — completely oblivious to how one man’s poison is another man’s meat and there are no objective parameters for these evaluations.
One cannot do much about the casteist lens someone chooses to view through, but I wish something could be done to improve the quality of discussion about art.
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sanjana
June 20, 2018
The labels are like that. Once it sticks, it is difficult to shake them off. If BR had kept quiet, people would have thought of him as arrogant who does not want to explain his stance. Or they would have thought that he accepts the label thrown at him. Explanation is needed whether the other party accepts it or not. At the end of it he is a critic and looks at everything in a critical way. He maybe flawed because he is not perfect and cannot be.
No, here many of us dont support anything blindly. We question endlessly.
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Madan
June 20, 2018
BR: Forget Indians. Once in a tennis discussion some American/British chap said aesthetics is NOT subjective. And he was quite knowledgeable about tennis. Think it has more to do with how social media works. Seems to make people disagreeable for whatever reason.
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vinjk
June 20, 2018
“I wish something could be done to improve the quality of discussion about art.”
I have a suggestion…start an online course on film appreciation and criticism. I know that you conduct such courses in India but for people like me, who live abroad or in the other end of India, would sign up for the course in a instant.
Please, do it. We love to learn this art, the art of film criticism, from you.
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Rahini David
June 20, 2018
BR, The post MERELY pointed out a VERY ACCURATE FACT that you FORCIBLY draw comparison to NITPICK and thereby PROUDLY ANNOUNCE why your IN-HOUSE masters are still the GREATEST.
Eventually HUMAN CIVILIZATION will progress in coming centuries and the likes of you would understand something which currently with your un-evolved brain are unable to grasp.
Too bad you and I would not live to see that glorious day. But for now do not argue with VERY ACCURATE FACTS. OKAY? Okay.
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Aadhy
June 20, 2018
Huh, what? Like what, exactly?? That’s a serious allegation to make so casually.
Look I’m not calling Ilayaraja a casteist. If you’d please do away with your patronising tone you would understand my point better. I was saying he was part of an UC narrative that has dominated Tamil cinema, being part of films that glamorised a community notorious for caste violence (potri paadadi penne), or extolling the virtues of Chinna Gounder, Periya Marudhu, Virumaandi, Yejamaan. Now whethere the castes shown in these movies are glorified or just depicted is a separate debate and there is a lot of research that has gone into this to prove all these movies have gone on to have a huge influence on the understanding of castes (or non-understanding of its evils). Watch a documentary called “The inivisble other: Caste in Tamil cinema”. It’s on youtube.
Oh, and I’m not clubbing UC bigots and Krishnasamy, casually. I’m saying the SCs also have hierarchy and there has been casteist violence also between them, like between DKVs and Paraiyars, Paraiyars building walls against Arundatiyars. I agree that this can’t be compared to the UC oppression but your so called ‘positive’ caste identification has already lead to violence between the lower castes. That’s why the term Dalits, popularised by Ambedkar, has been in use now, and for all the right reasons, because it unifies all oppressed in their fight for their rights. And Harijan is indeed a condescending word used by Gandhi. But guess who clubbed the words Harijan, used by Gandhi and Dalit, an Ambedkarite term, together , like casually?
I just think we have to agree to disagree and move on. You believe the oppressed identifying themselves with their caste names is positive and would lead liberation. I call it toxic because it has already lead to oppression within the lower castes. I believe in Ambedkarite politics which believes shedding the caste tags is the first step to ‘agitate, organise and revolt’. Unity is the most important asset to fight oppression, achieve equality and get back what was rightfully yours.
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Siva
June 20, 2018
Madhumitha Kamalakannan:
” … a caste stained glass … ”
I loved this phrase. Fantastic imagination. Very well thought out. I could almost see it as a movie title 🙂
A Caste Stained Glass
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Siva
June 20, 2018
Rahini David:
” words in UPPERCASE BOLD LETTERS ”
Oh, come on! 🙂
Aren’t you supposed to post something with absolute anger?
This is sarcasm overload and I am unable to stop laughing 😂 😂
You deserve to be a roast-master general or something 😀
OKAY?
Okay.
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Nia
June 20, 2018
“Thanks for pointing out his response. This is further proof of the need for arts education, or at least understanding how the arts work.
It’s sad that even someone from a B school background uses words like “accurate fact” to describe evaluations like “crappy movies” and “good ones” ”
I have been a fan of BR for so long, but I must say this is unbelievably condescending!
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Arjun
June 20, 2018
@aadhy: You said “following such a lifestyle made ilayaraja do some casteist stuff”, it wasnt clear if the “doing casteist stuff” merely referred to composing for certain movies, hence my reaction. Ya, a lot of his fans, me included consider his composing for potri padadi penne (great song nonetheless), a song that has virtually become an anthem for a particular caste to assert their greatness, to be the most unfortunate thing.
Regarding your other point, I don’t think you’ve grasped my point, or perhaps I’ve not explained where I stand very well. But to clarify one thing, i am not suggesting it is a good thing to attach oneself to labels such as paraiyar or arundatiyar. But one needs to recognize that there is a diversity of views and lifestyles within the broad dalit category and whether someone chooses to identify themselves as Ambedkarite buddhist or Hindu or Christian or muslim is their personal choice and to suggest that any of that mounts to minimizing the dalit identity is unfair. Like Mathimaran says, the way ilayaraja expresses his identity is through music and there are so many songs where he has brought the music of the villages and the “uzhaikkum makkal” on screen.
Cheers
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Vivek narain
June 20, 2018
Perhaps Poke Toholo was an exception but he was a sneak killer after all, and we must acknowledge the might of upper races. The way bond kills the negroes in casino royale, the brutality the impunity the viciousness the brute force the hatred, is not to be seen when he kills the whites. When he kills the two heavies on the stairs with his bare hands it is to be seen to be believed, Vesper was shaken to the core and bond was unruffled, this kind of possessed strength is what the history of vikings and nordics and all higher races is all about.
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Rajeev Hari Kumar
June 20, 2018
I agree with Nia, BR. That did sound quite condescending. Hope you clarify as to what you meant.
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Doba
June 20, 2018
When I first checked out BR’s review of Kaala on his blog, I was frustrated. I basically wanted to hear echoes of all the thoughts running through my head (“wow a superstar headlining the identity so openly / proudly,” “women not mooning over love but actual issues” etc) reflected in the blog. I admit to some uncharitable thoughts crossing my head – not that he was casteist but more of – “Why doesn’t he get how important this is to me? Why is he nitpicking? Why the comparisons?”. For me, the most frustrating line was the last line hoping that Rajni and Ranjith would not work together. Here, I was hoping for just the opposite!
Anyway those were the emotions of the first reading. However, after a second and third reading (and more subsequent to that), I could actually process his response and understand where he was coming from. I remembered that you cannot expect everyone to “get” what you experience because each of us are a product of our lives – readings, families, cultures, gender, exposure etc. Every single person’s takeaway is going to be more or less unique with perhaps some commonalities. What we need is diversity – not just of movies and movie makers but also movie reviewers. Thankfully the latter is slowly happening thought social media. Of course some of these expressions are toxic but more often than not, we have more voices speaking and being heard.
And most important, to me, was his respectful and gentlemanly manner of conversing with those who argued with him. Somebody may be of a different background, aesthetic sense or school of thought. It feels unhealthy to build walls by using slurs. Plus it seems unethical to make claims without taking the trouble to provide proof. Instead, in this technology era, we actually have the opportunity of reaching out and starting a conversation.
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brangan
June 20, 2018
Nia/Rajeev: In the sense that we stress so much on the maths/science/logic part of education that many people — even those highly qualified — have no idea how to read or process art. I genuine think art — whether it be of painting or poetry or cinema or whatever — should be taught in school in a manner that encourages reading and interpretation.
Doba: Again, let me stress that even when I discuss Rajinikanth, it’s from a cinematic POV — i.e. how Ranjith has destroyed the big star-image and stressed on NOT relying on one person — which is a part of the screenplay.
Like you say, the conceptual level things are all great to discuss — but in a film review, the emphasis tends to be on the cinematic aspects.
Is the Anjali Patil scene at the end powerful? Yes, But it’s also shoehorned in — the character is not sustained in the screenplay. So it depends on how someone looks at it — how the character behaves on screen in that one moment, or how she is written throughout.
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Doba
June 20, 2018
Yes, I get where you are coming from. The main point I was making is that I hope you realize that all those who may have (initially) been frustrated at the review are not accusing you of bias or endorsing those who do.
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Vivek narain
June 20, 2018
The 1908 dystopian novel by Jack London, The Iron heel, foretells that oligarchy will rule for some centuries before the Brotherhood can make a stand. Immutable destiny?
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KayKay
June 20, 2018
“Your argument has nothing to do with free speech. All you are doing is tone-policing BR, telling him how to say what he said, to not use words like “ridiculous” or “helpless” as the case may be. Not surprising since you do not understand free speech”
Now that’s a juicy cherry atop one spongy cake of a comment. Bravo, Madan!
sai16vicky: How is B playing the victim here when he’s chosen to respond to a comment that he clearly feels maligns him unfairly? And that too coming from an FB troll playing to the cheap seats with such brilliantly nuanced statements like “that he finds it easy to like even the crappy movies of Brahmin filmmakers”.
“he has been civil about it. He hasn’t called you names or used cuss-words against you.”
So couching blatantly inaccurate and inflammatory statements in polite prose gets a pass? Like, I get to respond if someone calls me a moron, but should refrain if am instead described as “the South End of a North facing Horse”? Ok.
“If BR is feeling helpless and fears that his reputation would be tarnished because of a certain class of tweets, then why mock Rajputs when they fear that the reputation of their community will be tarnished because of a movie. But BR and other commenters here have mocked people who have had such fears in the past”
Well….maybe because some segments of the population (let me not join the currently fashionable trend of tarring an entire community with the same brush) chose to make their displeasure known via such time-honored tactics of intimidation, vandalism and arson? And it seemed to have worked because the Padmaavat we eventually got on screen should have had these very same dissenters jizzing in their shorts.
Muslims uniformly depicted as rapacious, sexually insatiable, underhanded, murderous and conniving invaders while the Rajputs are honorable, valorous, upright, sportsmanlike and compassionate rulers, not to mention possessing superior table manners. Mission accomplished! Rajput pride restored! Any more protest-driven script rewrites like these and I may have to turn to Tom & Jerry cartoons to get my dose of nuance and character complexity.
So PK mocked your Belief and Value systems? I am genuinely sorry for that and you genuinely have the right to pan the movie in any way and forum you choose, but not to ask for a blanket ban of the film, which is what many of the protests called for, and what B in his turn called them out on. And how’s this for free speech? I recall that PK thread where some asshole whose name I’ve blissfully forgotten spewed so much anti-Muslim vitriol, he most likely works for the Trump Administration now. And not a SINGLE one of his comments was moderated or deleted. (I know ppl being kicked out of Whatsapp chat groups for lesser offenses)
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Jaga_Jaga
June 20, 2018
@ BR – The entire process of appreciating art, has to be kind of a natural response. Don’t you think that by offering it as a course, and hence codifying it adds a bit (or more) of contrivance??
Then, won’t it become more objective; which files off in the face of the original idea – that of appreciating art being a subjective thing?????
Say what?
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brangan
June 20, 2018
Jaga_Jaga: No, I meant opening the mind to the diversity of meaning. The classes I take are not to FIX the meaning of a scene or shot, but to provoke the student into (a) becoming comfortable with the fact that, unlike maths, there is no ONE right answer, and that (b) emotion is as valid an evaluative tool as logic.
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Jaga_Jaga
June 20, 2018
Thanks for the clarification! By extension, I assume bias is a natural expression of emotion too. So bias should be OK too, I presume.
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Madan
June 20, 2018
“By extension, I assume bias is a natural expression of emotion too. So bias should be OK too, I presume.” – All art appreciation is ultimately biased unless you ask about a specific technical aspect of the art. You can discuss say which singer has a better vibrato or which guitarist does better sweep picking but except in cases where the skill gap is huge (more like a gulf) you can’t really say one is OBJECTIVELY better than the other. When it comes to appreciating a whole work of art, it will inevitably be influenced by each person’s own experiences, background/baggage and their preferences that may or may not be defined by these experiences.
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sai16vicky
June 21, 2018
@Madan:
If I was tone-policing him, then I must have told him what he should saying in his posts. With all due respect, in all my comments above, I haven’t recommended to anyone to do anything. All I have pointed out is double standards when it comes to thy own self vs when it is for someone else.
You’re saying that he only called the line of argument ridiculous. To me, it didn’t seem so. The way I read it was that he was literally mocking people who felt they got offended. Now, coming to that article, even there you could see that he has been much softer on liberals compared to what he has said about the protesters against `Padmavaat’. You could come back and tell me that I interpreted it wrongly (he didn’t mean that etc.) but this is how I interpreted it.
@Madan and @KayKay:
If a 140-character tweet can offend a person, make him/her think that their reputation will be damaged and make them feel helpless (sorry for this word again), what is wrong if a community thinks all this would happen to their belief-system/culture because of a globally released three-hour movie? Why should they be mocked/put down instead of being constructively criticized (this is where the free speech aspect comes in)?
Now, you might say that BR/other commenters didn’t “mock” the protests but were only critical of the violence associated with them. I honestly didn’t get that vibe.
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knittins
June 21, 2018
BR – you are spending wayyy too much time and effort in these rebuttals. There are a lot more where these are coming from, and surprisingly from otherwise sane voices on social media. Caste is clearly a polarising, sensitive subject and forces people to take sides so vehemently that they would without blinking an eye term KH a brahmin thinker LoLz.
Please to ignore, and carry on with the great reviewing.
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vinjk
June 21, 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jun/20/who-needs-film-critics-diversity-hollywood-oceans-8-wrinkle-in-time
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jaga_jaga
June 21, 2018
@Madan – Entirely agreed! That being the whole point, “caste” is also a natural part of bias. What we call as caste manifests itself in some other name in some other country. But the concept is ubiquitous.
So there is nothing wrong with being “casteist”, as part of art appreciation, right??
That doesn’t sound right somehow!
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brangan
June 21, 2018
Doba: For me, the most frustrating line was the last line hoping that Rajni and Ranjith would not work together. Here, I was hoping for just the opposite!
Let me explain this. Ranjith is right in thinking he needs a star to make his films, his messages (for lack of a better word) more viable, to reach corners of the state where people do not even step into theatres if the film does not come with a big acting name attached. (His best film, Attakathi, pretty much came and went.)
But Rajini is TOO big a star, TOO set in his image in terms of what people expect from him. The very thing I appreciated about Kaala — Ranjith killing off the star and not just in the literal sense — is what many people are not responding to. I’ve heard a lot of distributor and exhibitor types saying that there is no ‘mass’ element in the scenes. ‘Rajini padam paatha maadhiriye ille.’ (It doesn’t feel like a ‘Rajini film’.)
That’s probably why Kaala has not done well at the box office. The dissonance between Ranjith and Rajini is too much. Ranjith is better off with a Karthi-type actor who doesn’t yet have a set-in-stone image, and even the action set pieces in Madras are in a lower key, less…. ‘superhuman.’
Now take the big action set piece in Kaala, the one in the rain on the bridge. As a standalone moment, it’s definitely a ‘Rajini moment’, a ‘mass moment’ — but it comes between two (very good) ‘Ranjith moments.’
First, the night-time fight scene, where you think Rajini will fight but it’s actually his son that does the fighting. Thus, the star signature is further erased.
Second, the interval block, which is more ‘conceptual’ than explosive — because it’s a chess-game kind of ‘mass moment’, as opposed to something emotional and visceral, and the star signature is further erased. (For it’s not a standalone Rajini moment. It involves the masses.)
But the rain fight in the middle defeats these moments, because suddenly you have the star bright and shining. As a standalone, it’s fine. As a part of the screenplay, it looks like a compromise. And the second half feels more so, like Ranjith couldn’t really push it to the extent he wants to.
I seriously think Rajini has become such a monolith that no director can handle his star wattage anymore unless they play it straight.
It’s a strange conundrum. Kaala is fascinating BECAUSE of Rajini’s stardom — because no other star has this kind of signature that can be erased in order that the film makes its points about ‘it’s not about one man, it’s about a movement.’ And yet, it’s THIS particular star’s wattage that results in screenplay compromises and ultimately, disappointing box office.
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Madan
June 21, 2018
jaga jaga: If my background predisposes me to relate to say nuances of Brahmin life in a Mani Ratt film more than a non Brahmin, that is no more casteist than a Dalit picking up things in a Madras that a Brahmin may not spot. If that is casteist at all in either case. Isn’t the proper definition of casteism a behaviour which considers lower caste inferior? Is there evidence of that in BR’s film criticism? If there is, I have missed it. I think again due to social media influence, very loaded words like racism or casteism are used too casually now. If a White Southerner happens to prefer country to soul, no part of that is racism. But if said Southerner says he won’t listen to any artist that he knows is black, THAT is racist.
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Madan
June 21, 2018
@sai16vicky: Right, so telling BR not to play victim is not tone policing while BR calling an argument ridiculous tantamounts to insulting a faith system while BR ought not to also get offended by a tweet however inflammatory. I think I totally get you. Thanks but no thanks. Carry on.
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sai16vicky
June 21, 2018
@Madan: I don’t know from where you concluded that I asked him to not to play the victim card. All I have been saying is — today he is playing the victim’s card. Fine. But I have merely pointed out that in the past, he has been at a position where he has made people feel the same way he is feeling now. What goes around, comes around. End of Story.
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Thupparivaalan
June 21, 2018
BR: Thanks, for explaining the last line of the review. I think what you said for kabali applies for kaala too, “Rajni does more for the film, than the film does for rajni”. It sure did look like two people at different wavelengths at times, though I credit rajni for having the guts to put his star image in the film vulnerable. That too when off screen, him entering politics has rendered his personality a lack of the aura of invincibility he used to have before. He has become human. Another actor who is trying to enter politics.
Alas! The task of giving rajni a grandstand exit falls on the shoulders of one of the brightest young talents from Tamil cinema Karthik Subburaj, a rajni fan himself. As much as I am thankful to Shankar for endhiran, I don’t have much hopes for 2.0 looking at his recent collaborations. But, a much exciting time for Tamil cinema ahead.
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Vivek narain
June 21, 2018
Live never to be ashamed if anything you do or say is published around the world, even if what is published is not true~Richard Bach. If your happiness depends on what somebody else does, I guess you do have a problem~Richard Bach
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Tina
June 21, 2018
I am so disappointed you gave this so much airtime. The post reeks ‘wannabe’. And now he is (in)famous. Tsk tsk.
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Siva
June 21, 2018
sai16vicky: ” I don’t know from where you concluded that I asked him to not to play the victim card. All I have been saying is — today he is playing the victim’s card. Fine. But I have merely pointed out that in the past, he has been at a position where he has made people feel the same way he is feeling now. What goes around, comes around. End of Story. ”
So if I am inferring correctly, in a round about way, all you are saying is this:
” You have done this to others before. So you deserve it. So get over it. ”
Is that just about it? Well done, then.
By the way, does it feel nice to kick a person who is already down?
I mean, I have always wanted to know this. Does it really feel THAT good to rub someone’s nose in it?
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Enigma
June 21, 2018
I think that is a fascinating discussion. Glad that BR opened this thread.
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Doba
June 21, 2018
Thank you for that detailed and patient response. Very interesting. Kaala (the character) had to die but of course Rajni cannot. Reminds me of thalapathi (I know I am being a hypocrite by making the comparison 🙂 ) where the ending was tweaked (to the detriment of the story in my opinion) in the opposite way.
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Srinivas R
June 21, 2018
SaiVicky – I still don’t understand. In case of Padmavat, the creators were threatened. Sanjay Leela Bhansali was slapped by thugs. His sets were burnt down and there were threats issued to cut off Deepika’s nose. All these were done by organizations who supposedly represented Rajputs. I don’t remember any rebuttal from any Rajput group that Karni Sena and their ilk don’t represent Rajputs. One can appreciate someone being sensitive to religious beliefs and being offended, but once that supposedly offended group resorts to violence and threats with no other counter narrative, you know what? the least they deserve is to be mocked (and I don’t think BR mocked them. Some of the comments might have…). There were school children attacked for crying out loud..If they had stopped with a FB post or a peace march or something, many would have disagreed, but i doubt they would have been mocked.
How do we even begin to compare that with BR’s rebuttal here. Some one is accusing him of casteist bias which is a serious accusation. ( Madan has wonderfully explain what I understand as casteist bias), so a rebuttal is required to explain his position. There is no threat from BR to the guy who accused him. BR’s rebuttal is in a different galaxy from the Padmavat issue. I can’t even begin to think of them on the same lines.
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Srinivas R
June 21, 2018
Doba – If i remember, i think the ending was always for Surya to survive. I remember Maniratnam saying, Karna deserves better or something to that effect.
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Rahini David
June 21, 2018
sai16vicky: I understand that free speech is all about anyone saying anything about anyone when the spirit moves them.
Here is what I feel about it.
1) Saying “you are wrong about me” is different from saying “I am hurt”. It is not a question of whether BR is hurt or offended or humiliated or not. What he is saying is “You are very wrong about me”.
2) Saying “you are being judgmental about me” is different from playing the victim card. Please try to read what a victim card is. Maybe you do not fully understand what it is. I am not being sarcastic or rude here. Just really wondering if you know what you are talking about.
3) Saying “Hey all, Someone said something bad about me, but here is my side of the story” is not an attack.
4) Saying “Hey all, Someone said I ALWAYS do something, but I hardly do it twice a year, if that” is merely articulating a counter-opinion.
You are really carrying on as if BR went to that guy’s house and painted it black and left a “OR ELSE” note at his doorstep.
People wanted Padmavati and PK banned. BANNED.
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Aadhy
June 21, 2018
Arjun :
” it wasnt clear if the “doing casteist stuff” merely referred to composing for certain movies, hence my reaction. ”
Guess I should’ve used better words, my bad. My criticism doesn’t have anything to with Ilayaraja losing his ‘Dalit-ness’ or piously following a religion. It’s from a personal wish that he could’ve been a bit more sensitive and stood up against these movies, or at least its songs, by refusing to compose for such lyrics, just like how Thamarai took a stand that she wouldn’t write sexist songs. And especially when Raja had been at the receiving end of casteist micro aggression in his early days.
“potri padadi penne (great song nonetheless), a song that has virtually become an anthem for a particular caste to assert their greatness, to be the most unfortunate thing.”
Oh yeah, there have been countless days where I used to think how much more I would’ve loved songs like Potri paadadi or Yejamaan kaaladi manneduthu had it been composed for different lyrics.
But one needs to recognize that there is a diversity of views and lifestyles within the broad dalit category and whether someone chooses to identify themselves as Ambedkarite buddhist or Hindu or Christian or muslim is their personal choice and to suggest that any of that mounts to minimizing the dalit identity is unfair.
This is true, totally agree. Local cultures and traditions have to be preserved and celebrated. It’s their way of life. My problem is only with attaching caste names to such a lifestyle. I think you would know about the caste violence that happens in these community-based thiruvizhas, That is what I’m against.
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The Ghost Who Walks
June 21, 2018
PK was about fake godmen. It has OMG as predecessor which was more lethal and yet the protests for them was minimal. If Akshay Kumar was in PK instead of Aamir Khan, the protests would have been same as for OMG if not no protests.
Of course, the protests wouldn’t be the same. One reason could be that OMG was seen as an equal opportunity offender, where as PK was seen as offending only one religion. While that in itself is problematic, lets not kid ourselves about what the protests were about. Its more about who is saying it then what is being said. The amount of hate Aamir Khan got compared to Rajkumar Hirani or Vidhu Vinod Chopra is a testament to the fact that it was all for political mileage by exploiting our collective rabid xeno/Islamophobia.
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rsylviana
June 21, 2018
This is such a wonderful thread. So many viewpoints and opinions stated with amazing clarity and detailing. Can’t believe that a social media post put out in bad taste was the starting point for all this .
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The Ghost Who Walks
June 21, 2018
@sai16vicky
Anyone are free to get offended by what ever gets their goat. What should really matter is WHAT one does with that. Posting a rebuttal or a counter-opinion is the most reasonable response to that, no? But attacking the person physically (what happened with Padmavat) is the worst. What the original poster did on the FB, is obviously not the same as the latter but it is not also the same as the former.
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sai16vicky
June 22, 2018
@Siva: ” You have done this to others before. So you deserve it. So get over it. ”
I am not saying he deserves it. All I am saying this is not all that surprising on the internet. In fact, it is so commonplace that it has happened even on this blog, initiated by BR/commenters.
@Rahini: Yea, you are right. It is my bad. What I referred to as victim-card is definitely not what I intended to say.
@Rahini, @Srinivas and @TheGhostWhoWalks:
Regarding the banning part, yes there were folks who were hell-bent on banning it. But there were others like me (perhaps in a minority) who wanted to explain their side and never could, fearing a tirade of comments against our opinions. That was the general environment of the blog during those days. And it continues. For example, Madan in his recent article on “Wild Wild Country” (published on this blog) says he agrees with some guy’s opinion on calling Rajneesh as a conman. (Exact lines here — “For what it’s worth, I tend to agree with John Silvertooth’s caustic description of Bhagwan Rajneesh as a conman who ensnared rich clients in India and, upon being driven out of it, sought shelter in USA.”)
I don’t want to start another debate on this but here’s the thing that bothers me the most. Why is BR fearing that his reputation as a critic will get affected because of these accusations? People who either conform to his biases or don’t care about them will continue to follow him. This kind of pandering (“Oh you know I am not like this. Let’s just talk about only that aspect of a film.”) seems to be opposite to the very ideals that (at least I think) he has stood for. In fact, he himself has mocked movies/protests that do such a kind of pandering. And now, he does the same? Somehow, its hard for me to digest it and see it is as a balanced stand.
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jaga_jaga
June 22, 2018
@Madan
This statement: “Isn’t the proper definition of casteism a behaviour which considers lower caste inferior?”
Why just lower caste, can easily make it “other caste”. So make the substitution “other” instead of “lower” and casteism works fine there too.
Now, ignore BR for this discussion. Question is not about whether or not BR is casteist. That is up the alley of Mr. Rajesh Rajamani’s specialization.
The question is – is being casteist bad with respect to art appreciation??
When we say that bias is a natural aspect of art appreciation (noting that casteism is a natural aspect of bias), what is wrong in being casteist in art appreciation??
It is definitely bound to happen, right? So what’s the big deal?
This is actually my problem with art having “no fixed meaning”, “no fixed boundary” sort of an arguement. It can lead to social unrest, actually!
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brangan
June 22, 2018
jaga_jaga: About your question whether casteism is bad wrt art appreciation…
The word “casteism” connotes a negative quality, period. (The definition of the word, I mean.) It is not okay to be casteist about ANYTHING, let alone art.
What you are probably talking about is the preferences one imbibes due to growing up in a milieu (which includes class, caste etc.) — say, if you went to a posh school, you may like Wodehouse, etc. That is not casteism. Maybe you can call it internal (i.e. unconscious) bias, that’s it.
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jaga_jaga
June 22, 2018
@BR – Point taken.
But what can never be quantified is, the distinction between “uconscious bias” and “casteism”. The distinction is rather blurry.
One person’s unconscious bias is another’s casteism. Allegations will therefore, flow free.
Some miscreants might also use this fuzzy distinction to create social unrest. Not that one can do anything about it!
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Madan
June 22, 2018
@sai16vicky: Ahem, if you want to engage me about the Rajneeshism article, you are free to do so. If you actually feel BR’s blog is not a safe space, you can engage me on madanmohan85@gmail.com. But beware, I am argumentative as you already know. 😉
However, before that, I would ask you whether you are aware that Rajneesh and his acolytes themselves saw their philosophy as a rejection of Hinduism as well as Christianity, regarding both to be inadequate? Because I don’t see how you can take offence to both that and the ridicule of idol worship in PK? If you see any criticism of ‘Hindu’ religious figures of any stripe as hurting your sentiments, I would advise you to grow a thicker skin. Adios!
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Madan
June 22, 2018
@jaga jaga: You ask why casteism is bad in art appreciation. Because casteism is not merely bias but prejudice. As I explained in my previous comment, if you are PREDISPOSED unfavourably to art by a caste you look down upon, that is casteism and not welcome. But if you as a Brahmin watch a film made by a non Brahmin and about non Brahmin life and happen to dislike it, that does not by itself make it casteist. It may be that the film is badly made or you lack art appreciation, whatever. Could be any number of totally subjective things. But to presume it is because of caste would be ridiculous.
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Madan
June 22, 2018
jaga jaga: I think while the distinction is not set in stone, it’s not quite that fuzzy. From the willingness of a person to engage with art made by and about a background different from theirs, we can judge whether the unconscious bias itself is strong enough to be malignant in nature. I think there are ‘dog whistles’ that give it away in such cases, like an unnecessary use of generalisations or stereotypes about that community to explain one’s position. As long as the criticism focuses on the individual alone and without derogatory reference to the artist’s background, it should be accepted at face value as not casteist.
To relate this to a different context, a lot of the adverse reviews from the last Ghostbusters film or The Intern starring De Niro and Hathaway weren’t necessarily sexist. Yes, a male reviewer used to a male viewpoint of things may simply dislike something that is different. But the solution to that is for newspapers, websites etc to hire more female critics rather than to blast male reviewers for being sexist.
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Karthik
June 22, 2018
There is no need to engage with these kind of slanderers. Some people do not know others in entirety of their dispositions and selectively target with an intention to muzzle. These are the guys who wouldn’t watch every other movie that hits the screens like you do but claim to maintain a high ground in matters social. If they feel Ranjith is a phenomenon then they should also see movies like Burma, Kirumi, Aaranya Kaandam etc. which were never even noticed by the public but were much better capturing the context than what Ranjith does nowadays as a well polished social science lesson.
If Ranjith hadn’t gone to the big league he too would have faded like the makers of many other movies, still Attakathi would have been the only thing offered organic. Stardom and sycophancy can kill the ability of any individual and it’s doing abundantly on Ranjith.
Leaving all aside following you right from print, can say with conviction that you are one of the genuine critic’s for Tamil cinema and regardless of your background your reviews resonate with mine for most cases notably Vetrivel and Maalai nerathu mayakkam. It is not required for all people to like or love something in total if that’s the case then there is no expression at all.
These guys get enraged by your opinions then Blue shirt Maran is the right guy for them who goes and trashes a movie in less than 2 mins. Bet they have a different thing to target him than caste.
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Honest Raj
June 23, 2018
Aadhy: Wasn’t one of his 70’s songs banned by All India Radio ’cause it had lines about dalit assertion?
Really? This one is from the 80s:
He also filed a ‘defamation’ case against folklorist K.A.Gunasekaran for referring to him as a dalit in Gunasekaran’s book.
In Vairamuthu’s case it’s understandable but this is seriously sickening. Apparently, he was referred to as ‘converted paarpan’ by another writer.
rsylviana: Isn’t it a well-known rumour that P.Susheela refused to record any songs for Ilayaraja when he was a new composer, just because he belonged to the lower caste ?
AFAIK, it was TMS; however, he went to record a handful of songs for IR later. Also, Lata Mangeshkar seemed to have turned down his offer for his debut film – not sure about the caste factor though.
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sanjana
June 23, 2018
Lata might have refused for any other reason. Maybe he was not that well known or she has no interest in that song or she might have been busy.
Did she refuse a song composed by a dominant caste person never makes the news because no one can benefit from such an accusation.
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sanjana
June 23, 2018
This is how antagonism is created between castes without giving benefit of doubt.
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sai16vicky
June 23, 2018
@Madan: “If you see any criticism of ‘Hindu’ religious figures of any stripe as hurting your sentiments, I would advise you to grow a thicker skin.”
Thanks for your advice. The point I have been making from the beginning is revalidated again. So basically, you have adhered to an allegation that Rajneesh is a conman. Personally, I think it is a claim with no basis. In particular, there is no legal evidence to demonstrate that he was indeed a conman. He had endued many legal battles in his life but the ones that were established were only with respect to immigration laws. (Again, you can correct me here but I couldn’t find any “proven” allegations against of him being a conman.) Given this setting, whomever’s account you concurred with is a lie. Your statement in short falls in the same line of what KayKay described as — “So couching blatantly inaccurate and inflammatory statements in polite prose gets a pass?”. For one, it is blatantly inaccurate and second, it puts a highly influential person in bad light for no reason.
All this is saying is (like I pointed out earlier) this very blog has been a ground for people making such accusations (either a mockery/putting people in bad light without any evidence) on other people (alive/dead). So, why is everyone (including BR) going crazy over this particular allegation against BR on someone else’s space?
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Madan
June 24, 2018
“Personally, I think it is a claim with no basis. In particular, there is no legal evidence to demonstrate that he was indeed a conman. He had endued many legal battles in his life but the ones that were established were only with respect to immigration laws.” – So you have found at least some of the ‘basis’ right there in your own post and if you decide to selectively exclude things that you ‘personally’ do not find illegal for reasons best known to yourself, that is your problem. However, I had in fact listed down some of his crimes in the article. I am not sure exactly how you missed it but here you go:
“a litany of crimes, starting from illegally extending Bhagwan Rajneesh’s stay in the USA, using farmland to build a ranch to accommodate far more people (in the region of several thousands) than was permissible as per Oregon’s land use norms, infecting restaurants with salmonella, causing over 750 people to fall sick, a plot to assassinate the attorney of Oregon, etc.”
So the claim is not without basis. You may disagree with me about whether they are proven or unproven or whether he alone was responsible but you cannot say I made the statement without basis.
Now as to the point whether he was directly or physically involved in each of those crimes, no, he wasn’t. OK, guess what, Martin Winterkorn stepped down from VW when the cheat device scandal broke out. It’s called taking moral responsibility for a leadership failure which Rajneesh never demonstrated. Instead, he chose to speak up and blame it all on Ma Sheela Anand who insists that she had performed all these actions with his concurrence. From that point of view, I feel entirely justified in calling him a conman, especially because as a spiritual leader he is held to higher ethical standards than an ordinary person. Maybe he should have paused to consider how much pressure his idiotic limousine fetish was putting on the commune to raise money from wherever they could.
PS: I had only listed the crimes committed in USA above. The Pune ashram had become notorious for tax fraud and smuggling at the time Rajneesh tucked his tail in and fled to the US. If running away from facing the justice system (which is what he did in the US, securing a plea bargain and getting deported back to India) makes him not a conman, yeah, I agree, to the extent that Nirav Modi is not a proven conman either.
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Rahini David
June 24, 2018
Sai: No one is “going crazy” about the casteism allegation here. A very sane discussion about why the allegations is wrong is happening. On what qualifies as casteism and what isnt and why people feel so.
Your version of justice seems to be that if some one believes in freedom of speech, he should not defend himself at all. If some one calls Baradwaj Rangan a casteist writer why should it bother him if HE knows he is not.
It should not bother him if some one calls him an axe murderer either. Because HE knows he isnt one. Eh?
As some one else pointed out already, you do come across as someone who has been lying low waiting for BR to react defensively to some allegation about him and spring a “So you know how that feels like” because some one else used a mocking tone in BRs post’s comment section.
Please point out this infamous “mocking tone” comment. I seem to have missed it.
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MANK
June 24, 2018
Personally ,i felt that this was one post too many on this subject. but if Brangan felt that it was worth retaliating , then so be it. i dont want to sit in judgement of his action. obviously the guy was a troll who has no interest in having a discussion on why and what Brangan said.attacking the critic personally rather than engaging with his criticism itself shows how serious he is about the whole issue
i didn’t like either kadal or kattru veliyadai, but i fully agree with Brangan’s reviews of them . the fact is that whether good or bad , a Mani rathnam film cannot be ignored or dismissed off hand. there are a lot to chew on regards to themes, characters and above all cinema, which is what is in short supply in tamil films today.My main issue with KV was that i couldn’t connect with the lead characters, may be quite a bit with Aditi’s character , but with Karthi’s character it was total disconnect, which i consider due to a combination of problems in characterisation and casting. But Brangan was able to connect with those characters and i understand that if he could ,then he would enjoy the film much more than i did. It is a subjective thing where age and personal experiences come in to play majorly with how much you connect with characters like those, because they are rather unusual characters for a mainstream commercial film. it would be more ridiculous than slanderous of me to say that Brangan connected with those characters because it was a brahmin watching a film made by a brahmin
going back 10 years , i think the first time Brangan was bashed for partisanship was in his rather positive review of Drona. someone even accused him of being on Bachchan’s payroll there. Now i dont like Drona either, but i can understand why he found it fascinating. it was a very ambitious film , a fantasy art film of some sort and quite experimental in its story telling, particularly in the second half.
And now with social media being so prevalent and Brangan having grown in stature and visibility in the world of film criticism, these things are bound to happen more often. so will just remind him of the famous words from gangster Hyman Roth from Godfather ( or his creator Mario Puzo), this is the business that we have chosen Hopefully you will get on with your business without concerning yourself with these brickbats
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Anu Warrier
June 24, 2018
Don’t want to beat a dead equine, but sai, what the fringe groups did in the case of Padmavati (as BR did), or being caustic about them – and others like them (as the commenters did) is NOT the same as BR explaining his rationale on his own blog. Especially when he did nothing to shut his critic down. He did not threaten him, ask for that man’s FB account to be shut down, or otherwise stifle his free speech.
You seem to have a weird idea of what free speech is – first of all, ‘free speech’, which is a very American concept, is only about the government not stifling a citizen’s voice. It doesn’t mean that citizens can go about mouthing off what they want with impunity. Or that their listeners/readers will let them mouth off without disagreeing with them. Disagreement is not curtailing free speech.
As someone who thought his initial post came off as defensive, I still think this reasoning was important because this is a personal attack on his professional credentials as a critic. It is important to set the record straight. What BR did is to post a rebuttal to the charges that were made against him.
Should he not have done it? We can disagree on that.
As for banning Padmavati or indeed, any film, on account of ‘religious sentiments’, that is against free speech actually. The right of a filmmaker or an artist to depict his art. Can we disagree with what the film-maker or artist shows? Sure. Can we get angry about it? Sure. For instance, even as an atheist, I thought Hussain’s paintings of Hindu goddesses was in bad taste. The point is, however, he still has a right to paint them as he imagines them – and to give him credit, he wasn’t denigrating them. Not in his mind, he wasn’t. I don’t have to like how he depicted them, but I will fight for his right to do so.
Similarly, burning The Satanic Verses because some fundamentalist who hadn’t read the book objected to it, and then preventing Salman Rushdie from entering India? It’s ridiculous.
To have a country held hostage by religious forces (and I have given you both Hindu and Muslim fundamentalists as examples) is turning us back into the dark ages. If you want a Christian example, that’s what is happening in the US now. No religion is free from the extremists. I do not have to tolerate their right to offend.
In this case, a personal allegation on social space was rebutted, politely, on another social space. That is neither ‘against free speech’ or playing the victim card.
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Rahul
June 24, 2018
I have noticed in discussions about free speech(among others), that you notice someone making a specious argument and your argumentative juices start flowing. You position yourself like Federer , on his way to hit a forehand winner, and write down a fairly well reasoned post. But even after few forehand winners like that, you still find the discussion going on and on. Because arguments are not like tennis, even if one misses the point, they can keep replying.
I think free speech is one of those concepts that people figure out on their own. There is an a-ha moment that occurs when you are least expecting it to.
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Gautham
June 24, 2018
@BR
I think rational/logical reasoning alone is enough, without needing art to be taught at schools, to achieve that. Logic is THE tool, imho, that allows one to differentiate between what’s subjective or objective (and what can only be subjective), to expect bias as a default and for multiple pathways for those bias to develop, and to conclude that there is a greater likelihood for the rationale behind those bias to be of a mundane nature.
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sanjana
June 24, 2018
Art and art appreciation is too ambiguous. What is one critic’s kheer is another critic’s poison and vice versa. And so awards are always controversial. And we try to figure out the motive behind judging a film or awarding a film.
I feel opinions cant be changed with arguments whether it is that of BR or Sai. Or mine. It is like trying to corner someone. Everyting is not black and white.
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sanjana
June 24, 2018
Call it mother in law syndrome.The mothers in law we see in saas bahu serials.
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jaga_jaga
June 25, 2018
@Madan – Great point about prejudice vs bias! Agree fully.
About the fuzzy distinction – It isn’t all that easy as you put it, IMO. Best example is the tweet by Mr. Rajesh Rajamani on BR. One might have a strong intuition that there was no prejudice here.
But where is the proof?? As ludicrous as I count, interpretations/post facto explanations are not proofs. Something like a “lie detector” or a “serum test” might perhaps count as proof?
Please don’t misinterpret this post as being Anti-BR. It is just to highlight the fact that, where bias stops and where casteism begins can be fuzzy at the boundary. The extrema are easy cases to deal with. But the boundary is hard, and there is no proof whatsoever
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Madan
June 25, 2018
@jaga jaga: There’s no need for post facto explanations. BR has in fact written favourable reviews for films made by non Brahmin directors. So Rajesh Rajamani’s claim is factually wrong. That he will double down and insist he has a point is immaterial; the claim made in his post extrapolated some criticism of Kaala to a generalisation that BR takes down films made by non Brahmin directors. The onus is on him to prove such a claim and he hasn’t. Of course, social media works differently and it is BR who has to pen a lengthy explanation to defend himself. That doesn’t mean though that the complainant, prosecutor and judge can all be the same person. My Court is only in Appu Raja, not real life.
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jaga_jaga
June 27, 2018
@Madan – That tweet is rather nuanced – either with a sinister motive, or a “genuine” one occurring due to a natural bias. It says “mainstream commercial movie”! The ongoing discussion here involving MANK, Rajeev Hari Krishnan, and yourself touch upon this aspect. But what is still not clear to me is if these discussions lead to any definitive conclusion.
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Rahini David
August 23, 2018
This girl’s rant about Asian representation in American cinema reminded me of this thread
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