A lot in this article really resonated with me. Any one else — man or woman — cares to weigh in?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/highly-sensitive-man_us_5b464565e4b0e7c958f73cf4
Many people don’t have patience for a man in distress. We’re expected to pull ourselves up, lick our wounds and soldier on.
I’ve always been super sensitive — the highs are high and the lows are low.
It always seemed like I felt things deeper than the people around me. In a gaggle of teens, my attention competed with roaring laughter to try to understand why that one person in the crowd looked upset.
Today, I start to get overwhelmed about 30 minutes into hanging out at a crowded bar. That’s pretty common for HSPs — when you feel everything more acutely than others, the end result is almost always being overwhelmed.
Nearly every disappointed glance anyone has ever shot me is stored in my memory — from friends and bank tellers alike — and each new one hurts more than the last.
These things are not supposed to faze men. We are taught from a young age that our worth is in our strength — both physical and emotional.
This conversation reinforced the perception that there’s something “unmanly” about feeling too deeply, or trying to talk about those feelings.
Our society generally does not recognize sensitivity as a strength for men. Don’t let the romantic comedy talk about how desirable “sensitive” guys are fool you.
But I’m also learning that sensitivity is what makes me an excellent listener, a considerate friend and thoughtful about things beyond myself.
Baradwaj Rangan 
Karthik
November 8, 2018
Wow..barely a day after wanting to keep off the topic off anything deeply personal, you open one that digs right through to the id!
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krishna prasad
November 8, 2018
Don’t really know about the before, but I feel people in general now a days are not empathetic. Each one is willing to discuss his/her own problems but struggle to lend a ear wen it comes to others. I also find it extremely frustrating that when it comes to one’s own problems, people apply a different yard stick. But end up commenting quite the opposite with respect to others. A lot many problem s and misunderstandings could be solved if one just put themselves in others shoes for a minute. Have seen numerous accounts wrt friends, family circles etc that I have begun to accept that’s how humans are and it’s the norm.
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brangan
November 8, 2018
Karthik: I meant no religious, political kind of stuff. Personal topics should be okay…
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AdhithyaKR
November 8, 2018
I don’t relate completely to everything in the post, but some details struck a chord. Being extra attentive or appreciative of beauty has led to me being labelled a creep or a nerd in the past. But the truly cruel thing is that I have treated guys more sensitively than me with the same standards that were applied to me, making fun of a guy’s inability to take a jibe at him, perhaps. This post was an eye opener.
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Karthik
November 8, 2018
brangan: I understood as much. This was just one of those topics that just reading the excerpts made me feel so, for lack of better word, exposed that I couldn’t help wonder out aloud…
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Deepa
November 8, 2018
As a mother of a 23 year old son, I can see that the article does resonate his disposition. I have to accept that somewhere in the act of sustainment, I stopped listening to him and have made it clear that he was expected to pull himself up, lick his wounds and soldier on. Not that I feel guilty now, but , well, this post has disturbed me.
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Voldemort
November 8, 2018
Stereotyping of how a particular gender should behave is the reason for a lot of problems. Fully agree with this article. Men have a lot of social standards to conform to – be strong, don’t cry like a girl/ boys don’t cry, be a man, grow a pair, etc. Just like how we acknowledge that women face a lot of problems, we should acknowledge that men do, too. They might be problems of a different kind, but they are problems.
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Anu Warrier
November 8, 2018
It resonates with me. I remember sometime back, there was an ad that began with parents excoriating their male children with ‘Start with the boys’. It showed little boys being told, ‘Ladke rote nahin hai’, ‘Are you a girl? Boys don’t cry’, etc. Which, I assumed, “Hey, we’re finally getting rid of patriarchal ideas of masculinity.’
But. It ended with ‘Bachpan se sikhaate hai ki ladke rote nahin hai. Shaayad behtar hoga hum sikhaaye ki ladke rulaate nahin hai. (Loosely translates into: ‘We teach boys not to cry. Perhaps we should teach them not to make girls cry.’)
The intentions were good, perhaps, but this was problematic on so, so many fronts.
* It wasn’t attacking the basic idea that boys are humans too, and they should be allowed to feel. Just as girls.
* It was telling boys that crying or feeling hurt is a weakness that only girls should feel. Ergo – girls are weak. Strength lies in hiding your emotions.
* The same patriarchy that weakens women and deprives them of their rights is also responsible for making men who and what they are. And unless we address that basic premise, we cannot bring change.
I will tell you one way in which it affects sensitive men. My younger son loves to dance. What’s more, when he was a kid, he used to love to put a duppatta over his head and replicate moves he saw. He was – consistently- told: ‘Don’t dance like a girl! Thankfully, my son, even then, had enough self-esteem to retort: ‘I’m a boy. This is how I dance. So, this is how boys dance. But I cannot say how much it affected him, because ‘boys don’t show their feelings!’
Frankly, we do a disservice to both men and women when we try and slot them into stereotypes of their gender. Girls who like to run and play so-called ‘boy games’ are called tomboys. Boys who want to play similarly-gendered games are called sissies. While ‘tomboy’ may be slightly less pejorative than ‘sissy’, the connotation is still negative. ‘Why can’t you be more like a girl?’ is something most girls who have non-gendered interests have heard at one time or another. Boys, of course, can’t even show an interest in ‘girly’ interests.
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meera
November 8, 2018
It’s funny but I kept thinking of VS in 96 once I read this post… I remember how many were frustrated that he did not “chase” the love of his life. I think as a society we find it hard to fathom personalities that are a bit different from the norm… but who decides this norm? If we could be a little more kind, a little more patient and a lot more inclusive this place(and this blog by extension) would be a paradise 😉
But i can certainly see how it would be extra tough for a sensitive man to get comfortable with his sensitive side…
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sai16vicky
November 9, 2018
I can definitely relate to this. In fact, (one of the reasons) my ex-girlfriend left me was because she thought I was way too sensitive and emotional. Worse, she thought being sensitive meant low self-esteem and constant insecurity. Right from childhood, I have been told that being sensitive/emotional is a sign of weakness for men. Somehow amidst all that surrounding noise, I think I have grown up to become both a sensitive and an emotional person. I am proud to be one!
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Siva
November 9, 2018
krishna prasad: I totally feel you.
Real hypocrisy it is.
That “My wound oozes blood. Your wound oozes Tomato Chutney” moment!
#EnakkuVandhaThakkaaliChutney-ah?
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Jay S
November 9, 2018
Yes… lump in the throat filmi moments…tell us something about ourselves…
But, every man feels it, however covers it up with a ‘Man’ shield..
If I can borrow Kuruthipunal type line with an add-on…
Sila tharunangal elloraiyum baadhikkum….
Palar adhilladhupol nandraaga nadippar…..
Everyone is afraid….Dhairiyam endral bayam illadhaipol nadippadhu…
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V
November 9, 2018
I agree that gender stereotypes are derogatory for everyone but the ‘men shouldn’t have emotions’ stereotype is a western one. In India, everyone is equally emotionally repressed and it isn’t a problem that is unique to men. As a little girl, I was always told that it was ‘inauspicious’ to cry and my tears were stifled. When my cousin became depressed after losing her father as a young woman, she was warned by close relatives to get over her grief and be strong for her mother and not to seek therapy because it encouraged ‘mental ‘disease’. When my friend complained of body image issues and an eating disorder after constantly being fat-shamed by family members she was brushed off and told that they only picked on her weight it for her ‘own good’. All the people in question are educated, successful professionals living in major Indian cities and I’m sure that we all have similar stories in our lives. This is not a country that has much empathy to spare for sensitivities or mental health issues of any sort – regardless of the gender of the person in question.
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krishna prasad
November 9, 2018
Being sensitive shouldn’t necessarily be associated with being weak. One can b strong as well as sensitive. From personal experience I can say one becomes a lot more withdrawn bottling things up or one goes through a lot more emotions than a less sensitive person would. Mayb slightly become a misfit like the ambi character in anniyan.
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Anu Warrier
November 9, 2018
but the ‘men shouldn’t have emotions’ stereotype is a western one.
Not true. Let’s not get into Comparison Olympics here – yes, women have their own crosses to bear. On how to sit, how to stand, what to wear, how to behave – don’t laugh loudly, don’t swing your arms while walking, don’t raise your voice… the list goes on.
But we are, as a race (human, not just Western or Eastern) more accepting of women crying. Whereas boys are shamed for even showing hurt – emotional or otherwise.
In that advertisement I referenced above, what really got my goat is that men who are brought up repressing their emotions are shown to turn into abusers. That’s a ridiculous assumption.
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Siva
November 10, 2018
Anu: When that video came to be, they used to air it in the STAR WORLD Channel here in India, several times a day. This happened for almost a month. I liked that video a lot and the only angle of it that I perceived at the time, was that it was trying to empower women. So, I made an effort to locate that video on YouTube, downloaded it and emailed it to my office email. Then when the d-day I was awaiting arrived, I emailed that video, addressed to around 25 teams in my business group. The day was that year’s women’s day 🙂 . Needless to say, the video resonated with a lot of the ladies in the different teams I had emailed the video to, and they responded back with warmth.
Now, the way you have explained the politics behind that video is a whole new angle to me. Enlightening. I never saw it this way. So yeah, the way I am seeing it now, makes me think, may be the video seems to be ‘assuming’ certain things and is inaccurately ‘concluding’ a few things on the viewer’s behalf. Also, like you pointed out, it looks like the makers’ intentions were on track. It just looks like this other angle of viewing the ideas behind that video did not really occur to them. Much like how it did not strike me until I read your take.
Thank you.
P.S: I absolutely loved, and still love the background music (by ad film composer Dhruv Ghanekar) of the video 🙂
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Devarsi Ghosh
November 10, 2018
I am stuck over making a genuinely, serious comment to this, based on two personal experiences, because my comment will be up for the world to witness. and I don’t want to be attacked for my “sensitivity”/decision to express by whoever comes across this blog. This pretty much explains the point of the writer.
At the risk of possibly being called sexist, talking about feelings is seen as “brave” when it comes to, say, women or queer people. But men talking about feelings, seriously and intensely? Naah…. nope. Might as well talk to a therapist who charges by the hour.
Also, this is my individual experience, but female friends are more receptive and kind to a man talking about his feelings. Genuinely, in long stretches of distress for XYZ reason, only my female friends heard me out on a day-by-day basis (which is asking a lot) and kept me together.
I think, an “I am not your shrink” or a “please toughen up” kind of a reaction is simple insensitivity mixed with lack of awareness about mental health mixed with garden-variety unwillingness to being a true friend. I mean, what the hell are friends for if they can’t listen to you and be by your side? Then, one is just a friend to drink with. Or to play poker with. That clarity about who means what in life should be present.
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Madan
November 10, 2018
This is a difficult subject for me to discuss because I used to be highly sensitive in school days. Gradually, in my teenage days, I started to ‘man up’ though only up to a point because some quintessential ‘male’ traits like enjoying WWE remained off limits for me. And I can relate to what Devarsi said because in my school days I had more female rather than male friends. With the exception of a couple of close friends, I saw most of my male schoolmates as selfish, never missing an opportunity to bully me and yet shamelessly asking me to help them copy from my answer sheets during exams. No grudges, no hard feelings, we all found our equilibrium at some point while growing up or at least I would like to think so.But just to demonstrate how the stereotype of male behaviour is unpleasant and yet even from a very young age, boys quickly get conditioned to live up to it with those who don’t being thought off as either weak or pretentious.
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tonks
November 10, 2018
Don’t let the romantic comedy talk about how desirable “sensitive” guys are fool you
In my opinion, if being sensitive means that someone is tuned in to others’ thoughts and feelings, thus making him a thoughtful and caring human being, then that trait is definitely attractive.
If it means that he is overly thin skinned, sees insults where none are intended, then I can see how that can be unattractive.
On a totally different note, I do hope Bohemian Rhapsody will be reviewed here. The India release is on November 16th, I think. Can’t wait <3.
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Bee
November 10, 2018
This one hit hard! We as a country are still not in a position to spend on mental health. ‘Seeing a shrink’ is a privilege for the upper classes, and it is frowned upon. The situation is worst for boys. My parents struggled to understand what depression is, and often compared me to their own childhoods where they went through tougher situations unscathed. People can’t recognize issues unless they been through similar ones.
I also think that men in India are more lonely than the women. We might look fine on the outside and have a great time with buddies, but if we want to have a conversation about something that’s deeply personal, there’s no one around. We can’t open up to our parents or our friends.
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Shalini
November 10, 2018
“If it means that he is overly thin skinned, sees insults where none are intended, then I can see how that can be unattractive.”
@Tonks – Exactly.
Emotional neediness is a big turnoff. Because I’m an incorrigible grouch, I’ll go a step beyond and confess that when I hear “super sensitive,” I think “emotional narcissist.” I have no truck with any of you sensitive souls who feel things oh, so keenly, just don’t insist that I care. 🙂
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Enna Koduka Sir Pera
November 10, 2018
I just watched the Boys Don’t Cry video. It was such an anticlimax when it turned out that the video was not about breaking the norm that boys don’t cry. It is such a huge burden on the men not to show their emotions and being considered weak if they do so.
At the same time, for both men and women, I see the distinction, as Tonks pointed out nicely, of being a thoughtful and caring individual versus an overly thin skinned person. If either gender falls in the latter category, I can see how it may be a little bit complex dealing with such people.
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Anu Warrier
November 10, 2018
@Siva, you’re welcome. 🙂 Truth to tell, I too, took it at face value when I initially saw it. I liked it very much indeed. Of course, boys need to be told they shouldn’t abuse their power! Yaay! Right?
But something kept pricking at the back of my mind – because if we should ‘start with the boys’ shouldn’t we be teaching them to be sensitive, empathetic?
I do not like the sort of women empowerment that comes from demonising men. There’s no ‘Us vs. Them’ here. We are all in this together. We can, and should, sensitise men to how ingrained behaviour hurts us. But to go from ‘they were told not to cry’, to ‘they all become abusers’ is cruel and unfair to those men who were not only punished, bullied and shamed for crying when they were young, but who didn’t grow up to become abusers. Who, now they are adults, are still being shamed for being ‘too sensitive’.
With feminism, what women are asking for is equality. Not superiority. I don’t ascribe to the idea of feminism that sees men as our enemies.
Perhaps we should teach our boys they can cry, and then wipe their tears and go about the business of dealing with their problems. The same thing we should teach our girls. And that neither should be using their power to hurt anyone else.
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Anu Warrier
November 10, 2018
If it means that he is overly thin skinned, sees insults where none are intended, then I can see how that can be unattractive.
@Tonks, I agree. With one caveat – let me just say that man or woman, I have very little patience for someone like that. And wouldn’t want one as a friend, much less a romantic partner.
@Madan, I agree that boys get conditioned very young to behave in a certain way. Which is also why I found that advertisement so problematic.
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Gautham
November 11, 2018
I can completely relate with the example of the crowded bar. I also find myself sensitive/receptive to other’s body language – not necessarily directed at me & especially of the spectrum of pain/anguish – leaving me a with a sense of pervasive, lingering helplessness.
But I am now curious as to why I don’t really feel a need to talk about feelings.
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KK
November 11, 2018
Personally I feel there is no distinction between men and women as long as one refrains from subjects pertaining to reproduction. As far as emotional sensitivity is concerned it’s a good thing to be in touch with your inner emotions as it helps you taking care of yourself in a better way. But I also don’t like overtly emotional people either. I find them too attention seeking and self centered. Also another issue that I want to point out is you shouldn’t open yourself to everybody either or try to talk about your issues in every conversations. Though it may feel insensitive but one should understand and respect other’s privacy,no matter how close they are,before barging in with issues pertaining to them.
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Kay
November 11, 2018
*I do not like the sort of women empowerment that comes from demonising men. There’s no ‘Us vs. Them’ here. We are all in this together. We can, and should, sensitise men to how ingrained behaviour hurts us. But to go from ‘they were told not to cry’, to ‘they all become abusers’ is cruel and unfair to those men who were not only punished, bullied and shamed for crying when they were young, but who didn’t grow up to become abusers. Who, now they are adults, are still being shamed for being ‘too sensitive’.
With feminism, what women are asking for is equality. Not superiority. I don’t ascribe to the idea of feminism that sees men as our enemies*
I wish all those who use the term feminazi or pseudo feminist and think feminist want to put down men read this comment.
One of Queen Warrior’s minions 😜
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Anu Warrier
November 12, 2018
One of Queen Warrior’s minions 😜
Ha ha ha ha ha ha! 🙂 Ooh, I laughed so much – that hurts! 🙂
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shaviswa
November 12, 2018
Looks like the pharma industry is turning towards the world’s second largest population to sell its Prozac and other depression related medicines. There is a lot of campaign going on – celebrities talking about their bouts with depression, articles in the media that eggs people to “talk about their personal problems”, etc. etc.
While depression does affect some people, it definitely is not as widely spread as people are off late making it out to be. Also, depression need not be immediately treated by seeing a shrink or taking anti-depressants. Most depressions can be warded off by spending quality time with family and getting to think positively on various aspects to life.
The western world, particularly America, has been conditioned to believe that they need to see a shrink at the drop of a hat. Advertisements for anti-depressants on TV and other media only reinforce this belief. And the fact is many people slip further into the dark world thanks to the medications.
I hope this is curbed in India at this stage itself and let things spiral down to the levels that we see in the western world.
PS: About men being sensitive….men ARE sensitive. Expression of anger, disappointment, happiness, etc. are all emotions and only a sensitive person can express these. I do not understand the term “man up” – men have emotions and they are different from women’s. Maybe there is too much analysis going on over too many things these days. People have a lot of time, indeed.
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Siva
November 12, 2018
Anu, Kay: ” One of Queen Warrior’s minions 😜
Ha ha ha ha ha ha! 🙂 Ooh, I laughed so much – that hurts! 🙂 ”
If only Swati were here to commemorate(!) and celebrate this occasion 😛
Oh no …. what have I done 😨
Did I just wantonly pull the tiger’s tail(!?) 😓
#புலிவாலபுடுச்சுஒரண்டஇழுத்துட்டமோ
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Anuja Chandramouli
November 12, 2018
“I do not like the sort of women empowerment that comes from demonising men. There’s no ‘Us vs. Them’ here. We are all in this together. We can, and should, sensitise men to how ingrained behaviour hurts us. But to go from ‘they were told not to cry’, to ‘they all become abusers’ is cruel and unfair to those men who were not only punished, bullied and shamed for crying when they were young, but who didn’t grow up to become abusers. Who, now they are adults, are still being shamed for being ‘too sensitive’.
With feminism, what women are asking for is equality. Not superiority. I don’t ascribe to the idea of feminism that sees men as our enemies.”
Hear! Hear! Beautifully put Anu! All hail the Warrior!!
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Chris
November 12, 2018
‘Loose ponnu’ is not exactly ‘loose’. It’s stands for a young woman with a very specific personality trait – Hyperthymic personality. They are easy to laugh, full of energy etc. There are equal number of men with Hyperthymic personality traits. The thing is, it is still ‘normal’. The author seems to be an introvert with ‘dysthymic/depressive’ temperament. This personality type too falls within the ‘normal’ spectrum.
(HSP is a high-sounding term which is yet to be approved and accepted by any professional body of psychiatrists or psychologists)
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tonks
November 13, 2018
With feminism, what women are asking for is equality. Not superiority. I don’t ascribe to the idea of feminism that sees men as our enemies
Absolutely. I love the men in my life : friends, colleagues and family. We only need fight misogyny, not men : and God knows misgyny is ingrained in a lot of women too.
Recently, especially in Kerala in association with views expressed by the WCC (Women’s collective in cinema), there’s been so much hatred of feminists expressed online. Most people seem to assume that feminism means female superiority. So much so that I wonder if things would be better if we changed the name “feminism” to another word, for clarity’s sake : equalisim (and equalist), maybe. That would perhaps be easier than explaining what feminism means to each of the uninitiated.
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Anu Warrier
November 13, 2018
God knows misgyny is ingrained in a lot of women too.
Hell, yes!
So much so that I wonder if things would be better if we changed the name “feminism” to another word,
I’m sick and tired of ‘I’m not a feminist but… (I want equality for women – or insert statement of your choice that negates the first part of that statement.)’ (I want so badly to remind them that if it weren’t for the feminists, they wouldn’t be in a position to make such spectacularly idiotic statements, but that’s a rant for another day.) It’s like some idiot who once told me ‘I’m not a feminist, I’m a ‘humanist’.’ Yeah? And how are you going to be that if you aren’t also a feminist?!
I get where you’re coming from, Tonks, but no. Just no.
Feminists want equality for women. Being equal doesn’t take any goddamn thing away from a man-who-detests-feminists other than his natural sense of superiority over women. Calling us ‘feminazis’ and painting us as man-haters only serves their purpose to diminish who we are and what we are asking for.
I don’t want to be greater than men, or claim superiority over them, or ‘win’. But I’m tired of catering to their prejudices and hiding who and what I am just to placate their egos.
It doesn’t seem to cross people’s minds that men can be ‘feminists’ too. Some of the men in my life – family and friends – are the staunchest feminists I know. (And some of them are the worst kind of misogynistic creeps – family, not friends since I can choose the latter.) They are not emasculated for being feminist.
I’m willing to explain feminism to anyone who is truly interested in knowing. Those online trolls who call women names? They aren’t in the least interested in knowing what feminism truly is, and wouldn’t care if you called it anything else either.
They just want to preserve the patriarchal status quo – how dare a woman stand up and say something and not sit down when asked to? How dare they not apologise when they have been told to, by a man? You think they really care whether the woman who’s saying something is a feminist or a socialist or a communist or any other -ist? It’s not as if any of those women from WCC prefixed their statements with ‘I’m a feminist!’
Calling someone a feminist is like calling someone a liberal today – it’s clearly meant to be a pejorative. No one really cares about the meaning of either word. 🙂 And I’m damned if I’m going to look for other nomenclature to preserve their fragile egos.
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Srinivas R
November 13, 2018
I see some comments about mental health issues. There are two sides to it, IMO. If someone is suffering from mental health issues, no amount of positive thinking or pop psychology is going to help. You have to undergo medication and treatment. Yes, the flip side is side effects and need to work with a trusted doctor to avoid potential trouble. The starting point though is to remove the stigma in visiting a psychiatrist. As a lay person, I can’t decide if the mood swings I am going through, need medicine or just a vacation. I must be allowed to take necessary guidance from professionals without worrying about all the noise surrounding it.
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Madan
November 13, 2018
Srinivas R: I was going to say the same. My cousin sis had bipolar disorder. It’s a thing and it can be scary. Got nothing to do with being too precious. Another way to look at it is teenage/adolescent suicides could be reduced if the stigma over mental health wasn’t there.
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Rahini David
November 13, 2018
Something I never understood. Where are these feminazis? Where are those women who have this plan to pluck the privilege from male hands and give them to female hands where they claim it belongs? Who are these women who give Feminism its undeserved bad name?
Give me a few names. Give me a few articles. Show me a feminazi. She is supposedly everywhere. I find her nowhere.
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Anu Warrier
November 13, 2018
She is supposedly everywhere. I find her nowhere.
🙂 Woman, you are a feminazi. I am a feminazi. We are all feminazis if the men decide we are so.
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Anu Warrier
November 13, 2018
For the longest time, depression was categorised as a woman’s illness. And treated just about as seriously as any other ‘woman’s disease’ – not seriously at all. However, studies now show that males in the age group between adolescence and mid-twenties are at the highest risk for depression.
Mental health issues are still a matter of shame. So though I agree with shawisva about the over-medication issue, his statement that Most depressions can be warded off by spending quality time with family and getting to think positively on various aspects to life. is rather ignorant.
You can’t will depression away. That’s not how it works. People who suffer from depression have difficulty getting out of bed some days. Please count yourself blessed you don’t suffer from such debilitating darkness. And it’s because the average person doesn’t understand its darkness – and isn’t equipped to deal with it if s/he did – that a qualified therapist is a blessing. Therapists don’t prescribe medicines. They can’t. Only psychiatrists can.
I’m glad, for instance, that Deepika Padukone not only talked openly about her depression but began her foundation to help others. Stories like hers go a long way in removing the stigma associated with mental health.
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shaviswa
November 13, 2018
@Anu Warrier
I have seen people go through depression – a close friend went through that. And at college we had a therapist visiting as well. My friend got into further trouble with the anti-depressants. It was horrible to see him suffer the side effects.
Finally – and thankfully – he completed and graduated. Got a job at his home city and lived with family. Within a year or so, I could see how he completely transformed. He was off the anti-depressants in no time and once the medicines were stopped, he returned to normal life pretty quickly. Being with parents and siblings helped him recover.
I have seen this with another girl at our campus. She too got over her issues once she returned home after graduation.
From whatever I have seen, taking professional help only complicates the issues.
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Anu Warrier
November 14, 2018
Shawisva, the side-effects of anti-depressants has to be monitored closely. I don’t know of any therapist here who is licensed to prescribe medication. That your friends got over their depression when they returned home suggests that the tye of depression they went through was possibly triggered by their leaving home and so they reacted to the proximity of family and friends. Not being a psychiatrist, I don’t know. What I do know is that your friends were lucky.
But Clinical Depression does not manifest in those ways. Neither does other, darker forms of depression. Being at home or with family and friends is no guarantee that they will recover. For that matter, there are cases where anti-depressants do more harm than good, as well. For one, one of the side-effects of a very popular anti-depressant is suicidal thoughts. It shocks me that anyone would prescribe that to a person already suffering from depression. But I will still not knock the help that a good therapist can give, and the support that therapy offers to people who suffer from it.
What’s more, depression is only one part of mental health. Bipolar disorders, OCD, etc., also need to erase the stigma – since they are all blanketed under ‘mental health’, the stigma is the same. I’m glad it’s being talked about. Remove the shame and it’s easier to get treatment. Many of these conditions, if caught early and treated properly, can be managed well.
By the way, in an earlier post you confessed to hating the term ‘Man up’. But essentially, that’s what you’re telling people suffering from depression and other mental health issues, to do when you say, “Most depressions can be warded off by spending quality time with family and getting to think positively on various aspects to life.
I wish it were that easy. It isn’t. Having seen someone very, very dear to me go through a debilitating period of depression, I can assure you that it isn’t as easy as ‘spending quality time with family and thinking positive thoughts’. Please don’t minimise that experience and that of countless others who suffer daily.
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brangan
November 14, 2018
shawsiwa: Whatever Anu said.
There are all kinds of ways depression or anxiety can manifest itself, and based on the two cases you know, it’s unfair to extrapolate. It’s like the old saying “get him/her married off and things will settle down.” 🙂
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Siva
November 14, 2018
Anu: ” She is supposedly everywhere. I find her nowhere.
🙂 Woman, you are a feminazi. I am a feminazi. We are all feminazis if the men decide we are so. ”
😀
Feminazi — This has never made sense to me, like, at all. What are they trying to even cook up here, a feminist with Nazi tendencies? That is so so far fetched. So yeah, a pejorative it is. And an absolutely fabricated one at that. Otherwise, it does not make any sense whatsoever.
Much like how casually the term, “oh no, you are a SJW* feminist” is thrown at empowered women. I did not even know what SJW meant until the “Captain Marvel” trailer hit YouTube couple of months back. The comments section of both that trailer on YouTube, and an article about the trailer in the Rotten Tomatoes website was filled with angry men, swearing and cussing Brie, calling her all sorts of names. They ranged from:
she is a feminazi, to
she cannot act**, to
Captain Marvel ought to “smile more”, to
how can they cast a female as Captain Marvel****, to
she is a SJW feminist
and so (many) on.
*SJW = Social Justice Warrior
** = Yeah, go ask her Academy Award or Golden Globe or BAFTA
**** = Carol Danvers, the titular character of the upcoming Captain Marvel movie, has been the official Captain Marvel in the comic books themselves, since the year 2012. Marvel Comics made this decision in 2012 after decades of no character assuming the Captain Marvel alter ego, since the death of the original Captain Marvel character (who was a male, called Mar-Vell). So, this was not a new decision made for this movie. Not that it matters even if that was the case.
In reality, more than anything, more than anything about females and the need for them to be empowered, I learned more about my fellow gender here. I learned how scared they are. I learned how they don’t like it when a woman has a mind of her own. Or how they hate it when she finds her own space. Or if she has a voice.
Even at the time, I tried to explain to these bigots why it is okay for a woman to assume that film role. Hell, I even tried to explain to one of them what feminism meant. Anu, I believe it was very similar to your view on feminism earlier in this thread (in your reply to me 🙂 )
Here is me trying to explain Carol Danvers’ backstory:
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/five-big-things-we-learned-from-the-captain-marvel-trailer/#comment-4108023238
@ThePeoplesDefender1776 Obviously you seem to be not aware of some facts.
According to the Marvel Comics story line, Carol Danvers (who was just human until then) developed super powers from the original Captain Marvel (who was called Mar-Vell) after an accident involving both of them which fused their DNA. She then assumed the superhero name MS.Marvel (in 1977) until the original Captain Marvel was alive. Then he DIED at some point. After that, Carol Danvers assumed the superhero name Captain Marvel (in the year 2012). And she has been the Captain Marvel since that story line was introduced by Marvel Comics. Bottom line, Carol Danvers has been the Captain Marvel since the year 2012. Hopefully this clarifies things
Here is me trying to explain what I believed feminism was:
https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/five-big-things-we-learned-from-the-captain-marvel-trailer/#comment-4108127329
You seem to have a complete misconception on what feminism is. Females — or even males who support feminism — are not arguing that females are better than males. They seek a world where all humans could live harmoniously, without harboring hatred toward a person based on what their gender is, or lack thereof. And as a male myself, my humble opinion is that masculinity is not a superpower. Or something to be proud of, for that matter.
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Sifter
November 14, 2018
@ Anu- And I’m damned if I’m going to look for other nomenclature to preserve their fragile egos.
Exactly!
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shaviswa
November 14, 2018
@Anu Warrier @BR
I am not trivializing the need for treating mental health issues. Maybe I did not express my thoughts clearly. I will try again.
A lot of people undergo situations that do not really need a therapist or any kind of medications. The examples I gave probably fall into that category. And the problem is such people are also being cajoled to visit a shrink. My reference to Prozac ads was that – if you see those ads, you may feel that you are also depressed 🙂
The pharma industry would want to include a larger number people in the group that requires medications. That is their goal, sell more. (It is like how they influenced the healthcare industry to lower the normal blood sugar level so that more people fall under the diabetic or pre-diabetic category). This needs to be curbed and only those who genuinely need help should seek the help of a therapist or shrink. My suspicion is that celebrities who talk about depression now are probably paid to do so. They are indirectly campaigning for the pharma companies. They are influencing in the name of creating awareness.
I hope I made my point clear now. 🙂
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Madan
November 14, 2018
@shaviswa: While I am not on board with saying most mental illnesses do not need treatment, I do agree with your concerns regarding over medication and yes, it is at the behest of the pharma industry.
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Anu Warrier
November 14, 2018
Siva, hats off, sir. Truly. And thank you. Not just because you feel that way, but because you stand up to be counted when it matters.
@Shawisva, I don’t agree that celebrities who talk about it are being paid to do so. A lot of them do undergo depression. Deepika Padukone is one such. And it’s a brave step to come out and admit to it – most people are ashamed to admit to mental health issues. So if there is some celebrity campaigning because s/he is paid by a pharma company, most of them are spreading awareness, and in their own way, erasing the shame associated with it.
I do agree with you about over-medication; I do agree with you about pharma companies pushing unnecessary drugs; I do agree there are psychiatrists who will push those drugs on people who would do better with therapy; all that is true. But all depression and related issues cannot just be alleviated with just thinking positive thoughts. In fact, one aspect of depression is that you just cannot think positive thoughts.
So yes, both points of view can co-exist.
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Siva
November 15, 2018
Anu: Thank you 🙂
” @Shawisva, I don’t agree that celebrities who talk about it are being paid to do so. A lot of them do undergo depression. Deepika Padukone is one such. ”
True. With a lot of fame comes a lot of quick judgment. People stop recognizing them even as human beings, and that they have feelings too. Which, most of the times, leads to stark loneliness. And hence the depression.
Another celebrity who has been extremely vocal about their depression is Selena Gomez. Her depression caused her to become a recluse. Interestingly. until recently, she had the most number of followers on Instagram.
” “Depression was my life for five years straight. I think before I turned 26 there was like this weird time in my life [where] I think I was kind of on auto pilot for about five years. Kinda just going through the motions and figuring out who I am and just doing the best I could” ”
https://www.thefix.com/selena-gomez-gets-candid-instagram-depression-was-my-life
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shaviswa
November 15, 2018
@Anu Warrier
Given how celebrities have been used by various companies to push their ads and agenda, why do you think I should not suspect Deepika to be paid by them? You see that in the recent years, there is uptick in the number of high profile celebrities speaking about mental health issues:
Deepika
Shah Rukh Khan
Anushka
Varun Dhawan
Ileana
Randeep Hooda
you will soon see this happening from the Southern film industries as well. Just a matter of time for the marketing folks to fine tune their campaigns.
I definitely see a trend and a hidden agenda with these people suddenly opening up. And the message from each of them is usually along the lines of – I was heading towards being clinically depressed; I got help and with family support I came out of it; mental health is a normal biological issue; more and more people should talk about that; people should take professional help to address mental health issues.
I am yet to see ads though – and that can be even more dangerous given the nature of the pharma retail in India. you dont want people resorting to self-medication.
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shaviswa
November 15, 2018
Read this article – a clear case of promotion by TOI
https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/health/world-health-day-bollywood-celebs-who-fought-depression-deepika-padukone-shah-rukh-khan-anushka-sharma-karan-johar-4602760/
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shaviswa
November 15, 2018
That was Indian Express. Sorry. There is a similar article by TOI too –
https://www.indiatimes.com/entertainment/celebs/8-celebrities-who-spoke-about-coping-up-with-depression-and-gave-us-an-important-message-275032.html
https://www.cosmopolitan.in/celebrity/news/a10679/8-bollywood-celebs-you-didnt-know-suffered-mental-illnesses
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Kay
November 15, 2018
mental health is a normal biological issue; more and more people should talk about that; people should take professional help to address mental health issues.
It IS a normal issue. More and more people SHOULD talk about it. People SHOULD take professional help. What is wrong with that? I agree that pharma companies have been notorious in the past in ‘manufacturing’ illnesses and selling drugs for them. But it is also a fact that mental health issues are not taken seriously in India. The moment we talk about feeling depressed or when we start exhibiting anxiety, we are indirectly told to deal with it. Anyone seeking professional help is tagged ‘mental’ or ‘paithiyam’.
Professional help doesn’t mean going to a psychiatrist always. It doesn’t mean we have to take medicines. It just means acknowledging we have a problem and trying to work it out. Everything else comes secondary.
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Anu Warrier
November 15, 2018
why do you think I should not suspect Deepika to be paid by them?
Perhaps because she’s not pushing any drugs on anyone? Or being the spokesperson for a pharma company? Perhaps, also because she’s under a psychiatrist’s care?
I would argue that actors are at high risk for depression – the isolation, the constant paparazzi surveillance, a job where there are no set hours for sleep or meals, frequently alone even if surrounded by people, frequent travel… I see this among my high-flying corporate friends as well. They too have the same issues of a high-stress job, lack of sleep, etc., sans the media attention.
Or do you think that because celebrities lead charmed lives, they shouldn’t be depressed? That they have nothing to be depressed about? Or perhaps you’re arguing they shouldn’t be talking about it? Why exactly?
a clear case of promotion
Promotion of what, exactly?
there is uptick in the number of high profile celebrities speaking about mental health issues:
So? All that means is that the stigma that veiled these issues is being lifted, one celebrity at a time.
In any case, you’re free to suspect anyone of malafide intentions. It’s a rather sad world, though, where someone speaking of a health issue – and in speaking, peeling away layers of shame associated with it, thereby helping someone else who doesn’t have this platform or access to the sort of help these people can afford – is considered a shill for a pharma company.
Especially, in this case, where there is no evidence of Padukone receiving any monetary compensation for speaking out. (Or any of the other celebrities you named.)
From my perspective, I’m glad these people are speaking out. Collectively, they have millions of fans. If their stories can help their fans seek professional help, good for them!
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shaviswa
November 15, 2018
@Siva
“True. With a lot of fame comes a lot of quick judgment. People stop recognizing them even as human beings, and that they have feelings too. Which, most of the times, leads to stark loneliness. And hence the depression.”
I have posted a few links above. It is not just one or two talking about mental health issues. This seems to be an organized campaign.
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Madan
November 15, 2018
Er, in some other forum, I have been talking to somebody who believes that in the US, your body is governed by maritime law. Why? Because the body is a vessel and 70% of it is water.
Sometimes, it’s best to accept the simplest explanation however mundane it is. Celebs are speaking up about depression BECAUSE people are more receptive to the notion of mental illness than before. Deepika tested the waters and others followed suit. There are plenty of lesbians now in women’s tennis, to the point where people don’t bat an eyelid. But it required for Navratilova to come out in the face of extreme censure to make today possible. The comfort level with men coming out in tennis doesn’t seem to be the same… perhaps because no prominent player that I am aware of has taken that step.
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Rahini David
November 15, 2018
shaviswa: One more point. College hostels can be places filled with situation-based depression. Plenty of hitherto pampered late-teenagers (or early 20s) cooped up in a place where they are home-sick and unfamiliar and awkward with each other, etc, etc.
A college management wanting to dub a student as clinically depressed can be deliberate gas-lighting to avoid dealing with the real problems within the campus. That is a completely different problem. But a very valid one.
I was a happy student in UG (day scholar). I was not a happy student in PG (hostel). I was ok I guess, I just drowned myself in the college library until closing time, I drowned myself in a kutty Walkman after that. Life got infinitely better after post-graduation. Situation-based mild depression is quite different from severe clinical depression.
IMO, The current stark increase in depressed people has a lot to do with social media and the expectations it brings. I keep away from the glitzy Hollywood Bollywood gossip almost by principle. But I see anxiety and depression confessions even in YouTubers with medium levels of popularity. People who can’t get too much out of just advertising their anxiety.
The importance of not resorting to self medication for depression should be just as stressed as anything else. Which, I guess, is an important part of what you are stressing here.
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shaviswa
November 15, 2018
@Rahini
My comments are on two tracks: One being sceptical of these celebrities coming out in the last couple of years – almost brandishing their anxieties and depressions.
Second is the publicity that all this is giving to anti-depressants. And in India it can be bad as people may start taking those without proper precautions and follow ups by a psychiatrist. This can lead to lot of issues. Even psychiatrists giving out medications need to be monitored and controlled.
I cited the example of a friend at my hostel. He was given medications and one of the side effects was he developed suicidal tendencies. He attempted a couple of times but luckily we got him to the hospital in time. Another girl – a research scholar and who was married with husband back home – also went through the same issues. And she committed suicide. 😦
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tonks
November 15, 2018
shaviswa : But since depression itself causes suicidal ideation, and untreated depression is the leading cause of all suicides, in both these cases how do you conclude that it was the medication that caused suicidal attempts, and not the primary underlying illness?
I absolutely agree with the need for removing stigma of psychiatric disease and treatment, and hats off to the celebrities who have opened up. Major psychiatric illnesses are due to altered neurotransmitters in the brain, and these alterations are often genetic and inherited. These are not due to external situations, and need medication to correct them. They will not go away by talking to a psychologist or by a change in situation.
On the other hand, situational depression like say the death of a loved one, or an exam or love failure will correct itself on its own with time without the need for drugs in people with normal brain biochemistry.
Asthma (and it’s excellent treatment with inhalers) is another disease that has a lot of stigma and prejudice regarding treatment, and Priyanka Chopra is campaigning to remove this, having used inhalers since childhood. She is a living inspiration as to how properly treated asthma needn’t restrict your activity. Hats off to her too.
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Ravi K
November 16, 2018
^ There can be side effects with some of these medications, depending on the person. But it’s dangerous to stigmatize medication in general because some people experience side effects, or they might self-medicate.
For some people no amount of exercise or talking to a friend will be as effective as proper medication.
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Anu Warrier
November 16, 2018
@shawisva, if you’re arguing that celebrities speaking out on the topic of mental health is an ‘organised campaign’, sure. Again – so what? I’m glad there’s an organised campaign to shed some light on mental health issues and to remove the stigma associated with it.
Go to Deepika’s Live Laugh Love Foundation website and read the stories of people who have been helped by it. Listen to some of the ‘I’m not ashamed’ videos and see the people who have been thrown a lifeline out of the self-hate they have spiralled into.
Don’t knock celebrities for putting their insecurities and fear out there. There’s no amount of money that can make that anything less than a scary thought – especially in these times, where everything they say and do is so carefully curated.
Finally, what Tonks said. One of the major markers of depression is suicidal thoughts. With or without medication.
My loved one had suicidal thoughts without any medication. I have spent three years driving out at 1a.m. and 2a.m to pick them up and talk them out of committing suicide. Please do not minimise that person’s depression by saying it could all have been averted by spending time with family.
And that said, I’m truly sorry for your loss. It hurts like hell to lose a friend to suicide. You end up blaming yourself for not seeing the signs in time, for not helping them. That is a horrible place to be. I’m really, really, sorry.
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Priya Arun
December 20, 2018
I have to say this about depression. One doesn’t have to see a Psychiatrist from the word go. There are psychologists and counsellors who are trained to listen productively. Sometimes even that ‘listening’ can do a world of good. A psychologist never prescribes medicines. They do several things like talking/listening, art therapy, biography study and much more. There are so many beautiful methods available these days. Mind you, they are all scientifically studied and proven. Psychologists rarely give ‘advice’. They show you the way and elicit responses from you. Very often, such sessions are sufficient. One gets referred to a psychiatrist only if things turn violent or what they call ‘clinical depression’. Only a psychiatrist who holds a degree in Medicine can prescribe medication. Again here, an experienced doctor will be able to monitor and control the dosages and manage the side-effects.
Yes, family and friends do play a very large role. Sitting up and taking notice, instead of a passive, “don’t worry, it’ll all be fine” go a long way in helping people cope with depression.
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Siva
December 20, 2018
Priya Arun: ” your whole comment ”
Word!
It nicely sums up the best parts of all the comments in this thread.
Everyone — hear, hear.
And true, it cannot be just one or the other. I too believe that the hierarchy should ideally be:
#1) (a) Psychologists/Counselors/Therapists
(b) A good dose of family backing and support.
This may not be as effective if there is lack of either (a) or (b).
#2) Worst cases from #1 above would then be escalated by said Psychologists/Counselors/Therapists to experienced and qualified Psychiatrists, who might turn to the assistance of prescription drugs.
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