In which I answer a few questions on an older film… or a new one.
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Copyright ©2019 Film Companion.
Posted in: #AskBR / #QnA, Cinema: Tamil
Posted on January 16, 2019
In which I answer a few questions on an older film… or a new one.
For more, subscribe to FILM COMPANION SOUTH: http://bit.ly/2xoNult
Copyright ©2019 Film Companion.
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shaviswa
January 16, 2019
sir – just a small nitpick. Your pronunciation of the word homage seems to be off.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/pronunciation/english/homage
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apala
January 16, 2019
It was interesting to read Arathu’s comments here.
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shaviswa
January 17, 2019
@apala
That was a disgusting set of tweets by that guy. Not sure why you have shared that here. Looks like someone who hates Rajini so much that he hates anyone who watches his film. Such opinions are not even worth being mentioned. The guy needs psychiatric attention and help.
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MANK
January 18, 2019
Brangan, I think a lot of these things you are giving the film credit for are more conceptual than what’s there in the execution. Like the twist in the climax. You loved it, but you agree that it was a cheat as far as the screenplay was concerned. Which means that it was totally unconvincing how it comes across on screen.. The same with the second half being a KS film. Apart from the funeral scene, I didn’t feel that at all. It looked more a tribute to the greyer characters that Rajni used to play in his initial days of superstardom -billa,ranga,Nettrikan etc. KS heroes are like VJS in pizza or SJ Surya in Iraivi. They succumb to doing the most immoral thing which is irredeemable. What Rajni is doing here is to an extent what Bachchan (Rajni) does in thrishul (Mr Bharat). They lie and deceive , but they still remain gods.
And don’t think a film that’s both a Rajni and a KS film is even remotely possible . It has to be either a Rajni film or a KS film. Like PA Ranjith made his films.This is a full on Rajni film made by KS and that’s what he set out to make. He failed and for me, failed miserably , because this is not his aesthetic. Auteur directors cannot make a Rajni film imo. You need journeymen directors like SPM , Suresh Krishna , KSR or Siva for that
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Sutheesh Kumar
January 19, 2019
Shaviswa i found this.
https://www.dailywritingtips.com/two-kinds-of-homage/
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brangan
January 19, 2019
MANK: I think a lot of these things you are giving the film credit for are more conceptual than what’s there in the execution.
I agree. What I meant is, I loved the twist but I wished it had been built up to in a more convincing fashion. But I disagree that apart from the funeral scene, there was no KS in the film. The second has quite a few directorial flourishes — which was a huge relief, considering how utterly generic the first-half filmmaking was.
Reg. Auteur directors cannot make a Rajni film imo.
I’m surprised you say this, given your love for Thalapathy! Or are you saying that’s more a “Mani Ratnam film” than a “Rajini film”?
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MANK
January 19, 2019
I’m surprised you say this, given your love for Thalapathy! Or are you saying that’s more a “Mani Ratnam film” than a “Rajini film”?
Ha ha…. I did wrestle with it . I feel it’s a 30 – 70 deal or may be even 35 – 65 . But it was more a Mani rathnam film any day for me. You have to take into account the Time it was made. It was Mani rathnam of the pre Iruvar, Dil se phase , sandwiched between Anjali and Roja, when he was a more commercial filmmaker. Then you compare the Rajni Films that was made at the Time like Mannan, dharmadurai etc and what a radical change the film was , both in the themes that it handled and the technical aspects of it. I would say it was more of a Mani rathnam film than a Rajni film.
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MANK
January 19, 2019
And again I feel the KS’s aesthetic is almost opposite to that off today’s Rajni film. Its really dark and twisted. And As you said, it would have to be something like what he did in moondru mudichu or avargal. That would be really great and I would love to watch him in something like that. But we both know that’s not possible in today’s environment.
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shaviswa
January 19, 2019
Thalapathy was not a Rajini film at all.
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Madan
January 19, 2019
shaviswa: Yeah, and the concept of a Rajni film as an entirely different animal solely intended as a conversation between him and the fans hadn’t yet taken off. At this time, Rajni commercial potboilers were often remakes of AB films and the idea was to give enough of romance, comedy and action for the star to please the audience.
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anon
January 19, 2019
Guys, was Thalapathy a hit back in the day? What was the reception like, I’m dying to know – someone pls give me deets!! KS is clearly a massive Thalapathy fan. I wonder what Rajini himself thinks of the movie and his performance in it.
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anon
January 19, 2019
BR, can you review Thalapathy, pretty please?
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Sutheesh Kumar
January 20, 2019
Rajini’s Surya in Dalapathy was a grey character and KS being a fan of Dalapathy has fashioned Petta Velan and Kaali similarly, going to any extent for a friend or righting a wrong even if it means going against the law.
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Srinivas R
January 20, 2019
@anon – Thalapathy was a massive hit. It was a very commercial movie as much as it was a director’s movie. Terrific drama, great songs and Super Star and Mamooty together.
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V
January 20, 2019
From what I recollect, Dhalapathy was a hit, but nothing when compared to Annamalai or Manithan or Baasha. I watched it on the first Sunday after its release in Madras and I remember that most of the fans went restless during the Sundari Kannaal oru Seidhi song, esp during the Samurai interlude. The fact that Shobana (the heroine) went to Arvindsamy and Banupriya, a widow with a child, was hitched to Rajni did not sit well with fans. Some of the dialogues were totally inaudible in the theater where I watched the film, due to Mani’s style and poor audio system of those times. (How I used to know about film Box Office collection was from the gazillion tamil magazines we would get at home. 🙂 )
The film could have ended up on the losing side if not for the songs which were unimaginably popular long before the release of the film and the fact that Guna, the other Deepavali release was an out-and-out flop! But it became a cult classic by the start of the millenium.
(Srinivas R : This is from my memory.)
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ThouShaltNot
January 20, 2019
Watched Petta. Finally, a Rajini movie that brought back the fun of watching him on screen. KS has managed to half-resurrect the Rajini of yore. The self-mockery was still missing. Also, did they have to emasculate the villains this bad ? A shriveled and pallid NS (with IV needles poking his skin) is quite not the villain Rajini ought to be slaying. Shouldn’t NS have met his end all guns blazing ? About VS, as in the case of an amoral Vaali, you still feel sympathy for him. (Raamar soozchi seiyalaam – oru murai seidhaar. Krishnar soozchi seiyalaam – pala murai seidhaar. Aanaa, “Dharmathin Thalaivan” Rajini ippidi soozchi seiyalaamaa? Idhu ennadaa kali yugathukku vandha ketta kaedu ! 🙂 )
Regarding homage, it was introduced into English twice (from original French hommage, both times). The first introduction was the “paying tribute” sense where the hyperlink presented is correct about the pronunciation. The traditional American pronunciation is hom-ij (stress on first syllable, although there are still 2 camps – the “h” and “without h” camps). There is a second sense of the word that BR used here (…it is an homage to Rajini…). This was reintroduced into English. This one is a bit murky. With many, it still retains the French pronunciation oh-maazh.
See the usage note on the 1a sense : https://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/homage
also 4th and 5th paras in Ben Zimmer’s response here : https://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/magazine/07FOB-onlanguage-t.html
In general, since most French loan-words in English have been anglicized (e.g. ambience), to avoid looking pretentious, it’s safer to dispense with the French pronunciation. Mind you, I’ve no dog in this fight.
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brangan
January 20, 2019
Yeah, I too recall it making money but really a blockbuster. I think Roja was MR’s proper big blockbuster after Agni Natchatiram.
Also, speaking of Guna flopping, it still hung around in theatres for a few weeks (in the sense that one could watch it even if you missed the FDFS). Today, this scenario is impossible.
(1) Too many films being made and too many releases per week, and not enough theatres.
(2) Not enough box-office information. So the lay public did not know much about (or car about) numbers. Today, I feel numbers impact the viewing decision. In the sense that if people know a film is a bomb, they don’t want to watch it.
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anon
January 20, 2019
Thanks Srinivas and V!
V, what you said is much more in line with my idea of how Thalapathy would have fared, haha! I’m surprised they were restless during a song – after all, people were far more patient back then and boring song picturizations were the norm. Was the movie reviewed well though? Did it become an instant classic?
I know the songs were well received cos I rem rakkamma and the bogi song playing non stop when I was a child.
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brangan
January 20, 2019
ThouShaltNot: to avoid looking pretentious, it’s safer to dispense with the French pronunciation.
Dude, tons of people already think I am pretentious, so that ship sailed long ago. I don’t think reverting to hom-ij is going to make people think I am Saidapet Singaram 😛 😀
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MANK
January 20, 2019
I think Thalapathi gave Rajni a lot of prestige and took him to the next level, not exactly box office wise, but in a matter of perception. Working with a director like Mani Rathnam who made Nayagan was a big deal. Thalapathi, then annamalai and then Baasha are one milestone after another in his journey to megastardom
Also, speaking of Guna flopping, it still hung around in theatres for a few weeks (in the sense that one could watch it even if you missed the FDFS). Today, this scenario is impossible.
Yes, even flop films used to run 25 days , sometimes 50 days in some centres. Also it took time for the film to move from A to B to C centers. For super hit films, it used to take almost a year for a film to reach C centre
Today, I feel numbers impact the viewing decision. In the sense that if people know a film is a bomb, they don’t want to watch it.
Because the tickets are so expensive. Its either a big hit or a complete washout. which explains why there is a BO numbers war going on between petta and vishwasam makers, each making ridiculous claims about their films crossing 100 crs
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shaviswa
January 21, 2019
I remember Thalapathy release. While it did better than Guna, it was again not considered a huge hit. Most Rajini fans at college were disappointed with Mani Ratnam. They were not happy with the following:
Rajini losing his lady love to an unknown (then) Arvindswamy
Rajini marrying Banupriya – a widow with a child; without his consent. He obeyed Mamooty’s instructions.
All the killings that Rajini does – and siding with a don just for friendship.
Worst was Rajini failing to protect his friend from being killed in the climax. This was considered as a failure on his part to not have stood by his promise to his friend that he would even give his own life for him.
The movie was liked for its superlative songs. Even Rajini fans were laughing at his get up in the Sundari song. And everyone felt that the movie’s mood was very gloomy for a Rajini film. People go to watch a Rajini film for entertainment, for fun, for the joy of watching him thrash goons, his comic timing, his irrepressible charm with his heroines, etc. Thalapathi compromise on every aspect of a typical Rajini movie.
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Jeyashree
January 26, 2019
The thermocol measurement being taken in the minister’s house ….lol
Peace bro and the idli explanation of Pareto efficiency (communism in Kathi) in the mess scene were tongue in cheek references to Vijay?
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