A remix itself isn’t a sin. Sometimes, it’s about a vision, about how you see the original song. But this Tanishk Bagchi version is just pointless.
A little after T-Series dropped ‘Masakali 2.0’, the world found itself considering a new adjective to describe AR Rahman: “angry”. The Sufi saint of Indian film music took to Instagram and posted an image of a man on fire, his face turned to the heavens in a howl of agony. (It’s probably from a Hollywood movie. I can’t recall it offhand.) The caption below said: “The strongest man is he who is able to control his anger.” A simple Google search told me that this is a quote by Ali ibn Abi Talib, cousin and son-in-law of prophet Muhammad. If there’s someone who can cling on to his faith even during such a moment, it’s probably only AR Rahman.
Read the rest of this article here: https://www.filmcompanion.in/masakali-2.0-song-ar-rahman-remixes-tanishk-bagchi-sidharth-malhotra-tara-sutaria-t-series-baradwaj-rangan
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Baradwaj Rangan 
Aman Basha
April 9, 2020
NO NO NO NOOOOO, this cannot be the future of Hindi film music. It’s simply disgusting, its impossible to not lose your shit at this.
I care to differ, the most outrage has been from millennials who’ve been trolling it everywhere ever since it was announced. Which remix apart from Haan Main Galat from LAK has been a proper remix? It’s only the ruin of Hindi film music, killing originality and creativity. Remixes have reached saturation point and this song has become the ultimate offender. I’m pretty sure and hopeful that the outrage only rightfully grows.
Reg. 99 Songs, it’s ridiculous to presume that a fresh album, made by a composer without the largest YouTube channel in the world, featuring newcomers against popular Bollywood stars and barely any promotion without the recall value any remix has against this crap
People do enjoy original music, why is there no remix culture in Tamil or Telugu? It’s just the greed and utter lack of artistry from the side of music labels that has caused this.
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N Madhusudhan
April 9, 2020
The extreme reaction is also because many perceive it as a personal attack (Yep, i’m one of them). Imagine growing up listening to Rahman’s songs and carefully witnessing his evolution as a composer across decades, investing yourself so much in his music that it becomes a big part of your life and one fine day, you wake up and hear that some random guy stole (maybe not technically but for us, this is stealing) one of your most loved songs, tampered with it and now making money out of it.
And you have two people, who have not shown an iota of talent, who’ve survived merely because of good looks being a part of this lazy remix. Now that’s an additional reason to hate the song more. We can be open minded and all that but boss, you can’t mess with Rahman’s songs.
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Ravi K
April 9, 2020
Is T-Series not legally required to get permission from ARR, Prasoon Joshi, or the producers of Delhi-6 to do this remix? Looks like they haven’t left “Jhankar Beats” behind…
I wonder if ARR gave permission for or even had to give permission for remixes of much older songs like “Mukkala Muqabla” (from “Street Dancer 3D,” also a T-Series production) and “Urvasi Urvasi.”
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Madan
April 9, 2020
I am surprised this was the straw that broke the proverbial back for Rahman. There was a hideous and dull remix of Humma in the Hindi version of OKK to which he had expressed mild irritation but nothing more. In some ways, this sort of remix is hardly different from Neele Neele Ambar or the Anand Milind copies of Rahman songs. In the sense that there is, as you said, barely any transformation of the song. It’s just plastering on cheap arrangements on the original, making an Ulhasnagar version of it, if you will.
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abishekspeare
April 9, 2020
Childhood destroyed
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rsylviana
April 9, 2020
I don’t think ARR is opposed to remixes , he himself has remixed several of his and others’ tunes like Urvasi Urvasi and Ponmagal Vandhaal. I think his anguish is more about how the Tanishk Bagchis don’t seem to accord the respect to the original song and the team behind it ,when they are essentially using the nostalgia attached to the original songs to promote their work. Or maybe ARR was always against remixes and was just doing them due to pressure from the respective production teams and now the man can’t take it anymore.
Either way I don’t think I’ll ever be habituated to seeing ARR lose his composure.
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KayKay
April 9, 2020
B, the question for me here would be…was ARR paid for the rights?
Because if he made coin out of licensing the rights, then he shouldn’t be ranting if someone took his original work and pretty much rode roughshod over it. I mean, he’s perfectly within his rights as are all of us to voice an opinion (free speech and all that jazz) but if you’ve been compensated for letting another musician take your work as a baseline and spin his own interpretation on it, then gird yourself with the realization that you’re most likely gonna be disappointed with said interpretation and wait for the check to clear.
I mean Queen were probably less than thrilled when their “Under Pressure” baseline got sampled by a 3rd rate rapper and spawned a No.1 hit. But the royalty payments would have gone some way to assuaging the pain.
A different case if the rights belonged to the music company which means ARR didn’t make a cent out of this …ahem! “recreation” and has to endure this Frankensteined monstrosity.
For make no mistake…I hate this remixed atrocity of an amazing song in one of Rahman’s most amazing albums. Some of Tanishk’s remixes work. This categorically does not.
But like you said, remixes aren’t going to go away anytime soon. But if the original artists are acknowledged and remunerated, then this salves the pain of someone taking your caviar and serving it as baby food.
A friend of mine who’s a die hard MSV-TMS fan was appalled when he heard the “Ponmagal Vanthal” version in “Azhagiya Tamizh Magan. Wonder what Viswanathan-saar thought about this version…and the composer who “recreated” it? 🙂
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Amit Joki
April 9, 2020
KayKay: Absolutely. If I guess right, T-Series would have bought the copyrights when the song is releasing on their label.
Things get interesting if the copyright was paid for at a flat rate and becomes entirely T-Series’, then he wouldn’t be receiving any royalties. If he’d stell held the copyright, it would be his prerogative to whom he leases it and hence gets paid in royalty but I don’t think that’s the case here.
Now, think of what Ilayaraja might have gone through. Songs of his weren’t protected by the nearly non-existent Intellectual Property rights. So he has to agonizingly sit through movies who make a buck on his songs without him getting paid for it at all.
It’s a good thing he’s making people pay by taking them to court.
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pirhaksar
April 9, 2020
I generally don’t have a problem with re-mix. One can always ignore and listen to the original. The issue here seems to be more monetary than anything. Maybe I am missing the larger point/issue here.
Rahman himself re-mixed couple of MSV songs which I hardly care for – be it the original or the remix versions, so not sure why he is so worked up and I say this despite being a hard core Rahmaniac. There is the one in SJS film goes by “thottal poo malarum” I think. Rahman is more connected/has a dearer relationaship with MSV than he ever had/will have with IR, so when he remixed those songs, I really hope he and the makers sought MSV permisson! Otherwise he is just being hypocritical. Fans of MSV/old songs will cry Rahman butchered the precious original no?
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Deepak Jeswal
April 9, 2020
I think the copyright rests with the label. So T-Series always had the rights, since Dilli6 (if I am not mistaken) was on T-Series only. So, all that ARR is getting in this (most likely ) is a by line acknowledgement and a lot of headache. (I doubt music companies pay artistes when they keep using their songs).
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Shalini
April 10, 2020
I don’t get the horrified reactions. No, let me rephrase. I do understand the recoil reflex, what I don’t understand is – why now? Am I the only one who remembers the romantic “tu tu hai wahi” reimagined as a phone-sex song or the graceful “tumko piya dil diya” transformed into a mujra rap? That was almost two decades ago. And folks are waking up to horrors of remixes only now? Okay.
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Ravi K
April 10, 2020
ARR took a stand regarding royalties a several years ago. Whatever happened with that fight?
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Madan
April 10, 2020
Shalini: Might be a reflection of the South centric participation in this blog (or that many are Rahman fans). Maybe for people who grew up with Rahman’s music, these remixes hurt more. I do remember the wave of remixes in the early 2000s, things like the fruity, sappy Shaan rendered remix of Raat Kali. Or worse, the item number version of Saiyan Dil Mein Aana Re which prompted Naushad to re-emerge from hibernation to voice his anguish. I mean, if people think this Masakali remix is terrible, they really should listen to the Saiyan Dil Mein Aana Re:
This is the original:
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Madan
April 10, 2020
” I think his anguish is more about how the Tanishk Bagchis don’t seem to accord the respect to the original song and the team behind it” – Not like the Ponmagal Vandhal remix accords much respect, if any, to the original. Pretty much kolaveri version with autotune/voice alteration and those nonsense English speakeasy/rap additions. But I guess it’s harder for everyone to be the receiving end of it.
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brangan
April 10, 2020
Shalini: I agree. It’s a total overreaction.
But then, remember that the remixes you mention are from older songs (say, “Kaanta laga”) that only pre-millennials know about.
Also, they pre-date Twitter.
The whole outrage now is because… Twitter would have no reason to exist if people didn’t outrage about things from their high horses 😁
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Madan
April 10, 2020
“But then, remember that the remixes you mention are from older songs (say, “Kaanta laga”) that only pre-millennials know about.” – But I yum millenyial only. Maybe I am a Simon Pegg millennial. Also, views of millennials who grew up on DD Metro and the days of only Sun TV v/s S Max generation v/s only OTT generation. Masakali is more important to latter sets of people. I was more disappointed by the Humma Humma remix in OK Jaanu, more so because it was produced by Mani.
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rsylviana
April 10, 2020
@Shalini and BR – OK Boomer 😛
Jokes apart, maybe the outrage was always there in bouts earlier but now it has reached its pinnacle because there have been so many remixes in quick successions recently and with the advent of social media its more clearly visible to the majority of us. My mom , for one, was scoffing about the Ponmagal Vandhal remix (albeit a bit gently because it was ,well, by ARR) when the song had come out – only she was venting to just her kids and their friends. So I think this whole “oh these millennials are so dramatic” explanation is kinda unfair and so unlike BR ,if I may add.
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H. Prasanna
April 10, 2020
There is so much intra- and inter-industry borrowing in indian cinema, I guess it would be nicer if they gave courtesy calls within their hive mind. And so much borrowing from and by ‘assistants’ taken to courts.
In hindsight, the Americans nailed it in the Oscars when they kept calling him AR Rueman.
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rsylviana
April 10, 2020
Not like the Ponmagal Vandhal remix accords much respect, if any, to the original. Pretty much kolaveri version with autotune/voice alteration and those nonsense English speakeasy/rap additions.
@Madan – When I said respect I didn’t mean the quality of the remix which, frankly speaking, I can’t say I can be a worthy judge of. I meant respecting the original team by way of a token gesture either monetary or otherwise.Something like how most of the teams who make a film with the title lifted from a previous Thalaivar film do. Coming to Ponmagal Vandhal and Thottal Poo malarum remixes, the devout ARR fanatic in me is willing to give the man the benefit of doubt that he reached out to MSV & Ramamurthy to seek their permission and/or blessings for the remixes.
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Madan
April 10, 2020
@rsylviana: Why this specific outrage for Masakali feels strange is if you live here in Mumbai and are following trends in Bollywood, it is very difficult to be outraged by remixes anymore because every year at least a dozen old hit songs are being remixed. Bollywood music industry has become lazy beyond the redemption and nobody can summon up rage over it anymore. Which is why in my first comment on this thread, I speculated that perhaps the outrage is from Rahman’s many fans in the South.
Now coming to Ponmagal Vanthal:
“I meant respecting the original team by way of a token gesture either monetary or otherwise” – I cannot tell if that was done but what does not seem to have been done was acknowledging the original composer on the album sleeve. This is the system followed in the West and Rahman is well aware of the practices followed there. If you don’t credit the composer right on the album art, users of the album may not come to know whose song it is.
Here is the image of the album art I found on the net. I will be happy to be refuted by somebody who does have the CD of Azhagiya Tamilmagan (where said CD happens to bear an acknowledgment of MSV):
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brangan
April 10, 2020
“Mehra talks of their remix as “painful beyond the legal remedy”. But did he consider legal recourse at all? Mehra admits having felt at a loss when it comes to a formal measure.”
I don’t understand this. Surely the team behind Masakali 2.0 — T-Series, Tanishk, the battalion of suits — isn’t dumb enough to go ahead if they knew they were in the wrong. (Legally, I mean.)
I think T-Series owns the rights and decided to go ahead, which is only fair. They “paid” a big sum for the music of the film, and I guess they can do what they want with it.
I wonder if that’s what happened.
The article is here:
https://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/movies/rakeysh-omprakash-mehra-on-masakali-20-rahman-and-i-felt-the-need-to-voice-our-concern/article31306014.ece
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Madan
April 10, 2020
BR: Exactly. I checked and the original Delhi 6 are uploaded under the T Series handle on Youtube. It’s THEIR property and theirs to do with as they please, as unpalatable as it may be.
All I have to say to Mehra & co is cry me a river. Maybe this makes me sound like a “What about 1984/1990” guy 😀 but I recall the subject of remixes becoming a TV debate and none of the then contemporary stars/directors/music directors/singers spoke up for the older composers who were lamenting the murder of great Bollywood tracks from the 50s to the 70s. I remember Sonu Nigam defending remixes then (because he was making bank with them, obviously) and comparing them to covers in Western pop/rock. Covers are totally different and furthermore covers are always credited. Guess it hurts when the shoe’s in the other foot, huh.
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N Madhusudhan
April 10, 2020
The reactions sum up two things:
1) Enough of tampering with Rahman’s songs;
2) The count of remixes is getting drastically high. So let’s stop and listen to some original music.
Humma Humma, Muqqala, and now Masakali – they all got remixed in such a short span of time. Regardless of who owned the rights, the man is bound to get frustrated when his songs are repeatedly being tampered with. Clearly a case of people riding the trend. Was the studio right or wrong is producing the remix is a different matter altogether. It doesn’t change how Rahman or the fans feel about the remixes. Like the director says, if they had the choice to decide, they’d have said no. In this case they clearly didn’t.
Regarding the sudden outrage, it was always going to be matter of time. Like how Steve Smith and David Warner bore the brunt of notoriety practiced by the Aussies for ages. Their punishments were too harsh for that single offence they committed. But the outburst was just waiting to happen because Aussies were always playing on the edge.
Rahman’s own remixes – they’re just a couple of songs in a career spanning 3 decades. And like rsylvania, i’d like to believe that he would have done the necessary in paying respect to the original composers.
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hakimokimo
April 10, 2020
Mehra himself produced a film ( along with T-Series ) that had 2 remixes. They forced Amit Trivedi to do one ( he said that he did it only for Mehra ) and refused to do the second one ( Tanishk did it ). Now we have even singers like Shaan who did a fair amount of remixes are vocal against it which is unfair and hypocritical
And btw Rahman in a recent interview criticized the remixes in such un-Rahman-like way
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Madan
April 10, 2020
“And like rsylvania, i’d like to believe that he would have done the necessary in paying respect to the original composers.” – Be that as it may, there is still a striking hypocrisy in blasting the quality of the remix itself – aside from the legal or ethical issues – when Ponmagal Vanthal clearly does not pass the test. Leave aside whether he did take MSV’s permission – the fact that the album sleeve does not mention MSV’s name makes me doubt that he did – why did Rahman plaster Ponmagal Vanthal with autotune/voice alteration and rapping? Oh, was it director/producer pressure? So, these other guys remixing Rahman songs are immune to T Series pressure but he cannot handle a Tamil director/superstar’s pressure, is that it? If you want to call out somebody for remixing, better don’t do it yourself. That it was ‘only’ once is not a justification.
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Madan
April 10, 2020
“Now we have even singers like Shaan who did a fair amount of remixes are vocal against it which is unfair and hypocritical” – lol, Shaan is the biggest beneficiary of remixes. And you know the worst part, back then, if somebody like me voiced my opinion against remixes, it would be suggested to me that I am not ‘open minded’ and being rather grumpy about the whole thing. It’s funny to see Shaan’s heart bleeds so much for a mediocre composer like Viju Shah when he gleefully sang on the remixes of numerous RD Burman hits. A whole generation both in Hindi and Tamil completely compromised on standards in their pursuit of success and now they get all upset about there being no students? Haan, jo tum logon ne dachiya uda diya standards ka, ab bukto.
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Madan
April 10, 2020
See, if Rahman talked only about the legal issues, it would be one thing and I would say it’s between him and T Series to talk about. But he has actually talked very specifically about the efforts involved in creating an original work (which a remix doesn’t have, by implication). Adhavdhu, MSV saar fifteen minutes la Ponmagal pota that effort doesn’t matter a?
If Ilaiyaraja had used the kind of words Rahman did, y’all would be accusing him of thalaiganam and ego and what not. Now Rahman is also sick of the industry and its ruthless and soulless ways especially when it comes to film music. Good, he has joined the old fogey club then like Raja. This is why Raja had opposed KB using jingles as background score for Pudhu Pudhu Arthangal. It doesn’t make him flexible, just honourable. Now if you talk about Raja whining about copycats while copying himself, that is a different story and you will get no argument from me on that.
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tejas
April 10, 2020
I love remixes.
Remixes were the most musically progressive thing on the fringes of Bollywood music on the MTV of 90s. Starting from Bally Sagoo remixes of RDB’s work to the DJ Aqeel / DJ Suketu remixes of the 00s to the Mikey McCleary remixes of S D Burman’s Khoya Khoya Chand or Yeh Raat Yeh Chandani of the 2010s – I love them all. In fact I remember “club remixes” were so much in that in mid-00s, each music album used to come with at least 2 or 3 remix versions of their marquee songs. I think Musafir had 2 additional records along with the main one – one called Club remixes and the second one was called Lounge remixes.
I remember Mikey McCleary’s work was quite popular and well received. Here is BR’s take on Khoya Khoya Chand in Shaitan –
I guess what is not working for people (including me) is
a) how mainstream they have become. With Punjabi pop songs and remixes, there is practically no original music being made in Hindi cinema, and
b) there are so many remixes these days that there is no real creativity in them.
For people who like remixes – please join my currently single-member club – there is a lot of interesting work happening outside of mainstream Bollywood. There are a lot of DJs and musicians who take up what is really familiar and play with the structure, tempo, loops and other fancy musical techniques to come up with interesting interpretations across genres.
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N Madhusudhan
April 10, 2020
“Be that as it may, there is still a striking hypocrisy in blasting the quality of the remix itself – aside from the legal or ethical issues – when Ponmagal Vanthal clearly does not pass the test.” – How do we say that it does not pass the test? With Masakali we clearly know that there are many people who do not like the remix. With no twitter at that time (2008?), the extent of dislike for Ponmagal vandhal remix could not be ascertained. I, for one, liked the remix more than the original. I don’t remember any collective outrage against the song. So it’s hard to say.
“the fact that the album sleeve does not mention MSV’s name makes me doubt that he did” – Not sure if that’s the right way to judge. You don’t see posters of remade films giving credit to the original film. You don’t see Vicky Donor or Shoojit Sircar credited in the posters of Dharala Prabhu. I guess they do it for some films but not for all films. If that’s not the practice, why expect Rahman alone to do it? It’d be interesting if we can check whether MSV’s name is mentioned in the film’s title / end credits. I am sure it would be.
“That it was ‘only’ once is not a justification.” – The reaction is more against the trend than a standalone music video. The fact that Masakali 2.0 is a bad song just adds fuel to the fire. We’re talking about people making fortunes out of repeatedly tampering with original hits. Only two remixes in a career spanning 3 decades means Rahman didn’t make a fortune out of remixing songs and i think that definitely gives him to right to speak against the trend. It doesn’t make him a hypocrite at all.
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therag
April 10, 2020
@Madan, Remixes are always polarising because they are made to appeal to an audience that probably wouldn’t give the original a chance. ARR has had very few remixes in his career and they are mostly decent if not noteworthy. This is not a fight against remixes but a fight for territory. From what I have heard, the music companies have gotten really powerful and are running roughshod over the film music industry. IIRC even Vishal Dadlani spoke out a few years ago about the many remixes of his songs. ARR is not immune to this and faces the same plight.
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rsylviana
April 10, 2020
Madan saar, neenga enna ARR hater huh ? 🙂 Why so much glee that he has “joined the old fogey club then like Raja.”? But yes , it does seem odd and hypocritical that MSV and team aren’t credited in the ATM tracklist. Especially since ARR himself has mentioned that due credit should be given to the original team in the video posted above. But I’d still like to believe that he must have reached out to MSV – Ramamurthy & team atleast offline.
Why this specific outrage for Masakali feels strange is if you live here in Mumbai and are following trends in Bollywood, it is very difficult to be outraged by remixes anymore because every year at least a dozen old hit songs are being remixed.
But is the outrage for Masakali 2.0 actually this high ? I mean even within ARR’s remixes I think I saw more criticism for The Humma Song than Masakali 2.0. Or maybe the avalanche of the Corona content online is making me underestimate Masakali 2.0’s . But of course Masakali 2.0 will be the one to have more coverage among remixes ,atleast going forward, since ARR and the team itself have come into the foray.
@hakimokimo – Yep , he does seem so unlike himself in the video you have posted. Never seen him this chatty in interviews too, he usually just gives out one word answers. But even then, man does he look like the sweetest chap in the world 🙂
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rsylviana
April 10, 2020
It’d be interesting if we can check whether MSV’s name is mentioned in the film’s title / end credits. I am sure it would be.
@N Madhusudhan – Nope . I thought the same and checked out the movie credit sequences in youtube just before posting my previous comment – The composer or the original team is not credited in the movie credits. I had to sit through the graphics change from “Iniya Thalapathi” to “Idhaya Thalapathi” to “Ilaya Thalapathi Dr.Vijay” to try and exonerate ARR. Sigh, the things you do for love !
P.S – Although in the tracklist image Madan has posted earlier , the original lyricist’s name (Alangudi Somu) has been printed .
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Madan
April 10, 2020
“How do we say that it does not pass the test?” – Eh, by taking the musical elements apart. Bagchi has done nothing more to Masakali than what Rahman did. So if people want to let Rahman off for Ponmagal Vandhal, it means the Rahman name makes them hesitate to criticise him while Bagchi is a nobody relatively speaking and therefore cannon fodder. Subjectivity as a justification loses meaning once it becomes about the person behind the art rather than the art itself. If it’s not about Ponmagal being done about Rahman, I would really like to know what specifically did Bagchi do to Masakali that was so much worse than what Rahman did to Ponmagal. Speaking of which…
” I, for one, liked the remix more than the original. ” – Er, thank you, I have long suspected something like this to be the case but since nobody would say the quiet part loud, I would stop short of insinuating it. Yes, so because a set of people don’t care much for the kind of musical arrangements that prevailed in MSV’s era (likewise while comparing RD’s arrangements with modern dance beats in the Instant Karma remixes in Hindi), they have decided that it’s ok for Rahman to totally dress it up as electronica rap. And then when Bagchi does more modest tampering with Masakali, he gets upbraided for it. Again, that says more about the power of Rahman’s brand value than the quality of the two remixes.
“If that’s not the practice, why expect Rahman alone to do it? ” – I do not expect him to do it but in that case, he shouldn’t speak out now. He did not officially credit MSV for his remix either on the album sleeve. Private la thanks pona and all is not enough because people who did not grow up on MSV’s music may not know it is his composition. So what exactly does he expect T Series to do now? Look, there is a business deal behind all of these things that none of the artists want to talk about. T Series would have bought over the complete rights for a certain price. If say ARR had insisted that he will retain composer copyright and require for others to take his permission before using it, the price paid for composing Delhi 6 music would also be affected. This is the economics behind the music which is not being brought to the table here. If you pocketed higher fees then, you have no legal recourse now to take T Series to task.
“Only two remixes in a career spanning 3 decades means Rahman didn’t make a fortune out of remixing songs” – Whether one makes a fortune or not from remixes is a purely market determined outcome and not in the composer’s hands. Where I stand, it is more unacceptable for an established and even world famous composer like him to permit remixing the song of his industry senior and mentor than for an emerging ‘composer’ or DJ or whatever you call Bagchi to do remixes. The latter at least depends on remixes to get by. Rahman doesn’t. He could have and should have stamped his authority on the situation and he didn’t.
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Madan
April 10, 2020
“Bagchi has done nothing more to Masakali than what Rahman did.” – Read as “what Rahman did to Ponmagal”
“If it’s not about Ponmagal being done about Rahman” – “being done BY Rahman”
Gad, these typos, aiyo aiyo!!!
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brangan
April 10, 2020
rsylviana: Ponmagal was only MSV – it came after the duo split up.
And FWIW, I think it’s a damn good song – a really unconventional song for its time. I think a lot of people are put off by TMS’ voice, though.
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Madan
April 10, 2020
“Madan saar, neenga enna ARR hater huh ? 🙂 Why so much glee that he has “joined the old fogey club then like Raja.”” – Not ARR hater but have always hated how Raja detractors, including but not limited to many Rahman fans, have kept yapp-yapp-yapping about Raja’s words rather than his music. So I am going to have my say now, sorry.
“But is the outrage for Masakali 2.0 actually this high ? ” – Less so from the side of the public but a much stronger reaction from Rahman and with many singers of his generation also joining the chorus.
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KS
April 10, 2020
Did Rahman crib about the Humma Humma remix as much as he’s doing now about Masakali? Because that one was more awful than Masakali.
@Madan:
What would you say is the difference between a cover and a remix? You can always come up with intangible differences about the soul/spirit of the song and stuff. But are there any technical differences that can distinguish one from the other? This is important, since the general consensus is often softer on covers than remixes.
From what I’ve seen, people call a version a remix if the original song is slower and/or has a classical/romantic/sad feel, and samples it with a funkier disco-ey beat.
If you make it a fun song you can dance to, its a remix. If you use computer sounds, rappers, etc. its a remix. And if you do anything else that is not as much fun or modern, its a cover. At least thats what it seems like. While the sampling could have been used to distinguish the two, these days most songs we consider remixes involve no sampling at all.
The (perceived) effort put in should not determine your judgment here. One could argue that many covers involve way less effort than what we consider remixes. Often it could be just one guy with an acoustic guitar, as supposed to a DJ with many synthesizers and turn tables and rappers. For instance, Jeff Buckley’s Hallelujah is considered a cover even though it involves no new input or extra effort. In contrast, remixes can involve way more creativity.
If someone hates remixes, they probably haven’t heard the good ones. And if they hate the very idea of remixes, they’re probably just a puritan snob. Remixes can be awesome! At @tejas pointed out, the early 2000s dance remixes of 60s Hindi songs were amazing! If you can look past the wannabe-ness and the white girls running around in their jetti, the songs themselves are usually very creatively put together, and can even be better (shudder!) than the originals. Here’s one I particularly love:
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Madan
April 10, 2020
“I think a lot of people are put off by TMS’ voice, though.” – This is like namba kootams find Devan or Naresh Iyer too tame and light, while if you were born in the 90s and grew up on Unnikrishnan, Malaysia is probably already too heavy and TMS is just too much. I guess this is why I must have started listening to Ronnie James Dio and Bruce Dickinson in mid noughties – like TMS of rock muzik.
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brangan
April 10, 2020
https://www.firstpost.com/entertainment/ar-rahmans-measured-response-to-masakali-2-0-acknowledges-an-era-where-original-music-and-remixes-must-coexist-8243561.html
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Madan
April 10, 2020
KS: You bring up a great point of discussion. So…yes, a dull or unimaginative cover is hardly different from a remix though a remix does have a dance floor bias as you mentioned. Which is how remix was born as BR has brought up. So…
“For instance, Jeff Buckley’s Hallelujah is considered a cover even though it involves no new input or extra effort.” – First off, props for even bringing up this example. My Peter-ing days on this blog may be at an end now. Secondly, as a huge, huge fan of Jeff Buckley, I have no idea why this boring cover of this song (that, sacred cows be damned, I find pretty boring in its original) gets singled out for acclaim from all of his work, as opposed to the incredible title track of Grace or Lover or the outtake Forget Her which is almost as good as the title track. Might have to do with the cover being boring enough for charting radio stations while the original tracks, while not avant garde by any means, can be a little unsettling and make your stomach churn if you cut to them right after Heart Weel Go Onnnn.
What would I consider as a good cover? One that involves substantial reimagining of the original and indeed gets appropriated into the musical vision of the artist performing the cover rather than being slavishly faithful to the original. Can think of a few examples:
Annie Haslam’s cover of If I Loved You. Roy Wood, who did the arrangements, used a beautiful harp arrangement while Annie brought a more modern West End approach to the vocals (but even to say that doesn’t do justice to the delivery which is more soulful than a typical West End production).
And this is the original, which is your typical stiff 50s/60s Hollywood musical type of song:
Barbra Streisand also has a really good cover of this song and it’s the best known cover. But Annie’s was the one that first interpreted the song in a different light.
THEN, one of the most dramatically reimagined covers I have heard, that being Peter Gabriel’s cover of Talking Heads’ Listening Wind. This is pretty much like a legendary artist paying homage the best way he can (through his baton) to another great artist (band).
This is the Talking Heads original:
My third and final example is of Carpenters who did covers so well they were mistaken for original creations of theirs. Not as adventurous as the above two efforts, rather, what they did best was to take songs that had a good idea lurking inside of them and transform them into pop masterpieces.
This Masquerade by Carpenters:
And below is the interesting but unwieldy original written and performed by Leon Russell:
Karen Carpenter also did a wonderful cover of Paul Simon’s Still Crazy After All These Years for her solo album. But I will stop here as the point is made.
So…if you don’t make such an effort to reinterpret the song, a cover becomes more about you showing off that you too can perform this song and then you’re just piling on. Dream Theater’s entire album covers (Dark Side of the Moon, Number of the Beast and Master of Puppets) are shamefully redundant that way. Add to that the torture of LaBrie murdering the vocals. Yes, I would consider such covers as no better than a remix if better at all.
Which brings me to the DJ Aqeel remix of Kehdu Tumhein. This is actually how remixes started out. It was not about redoing the whole song but about changing the groove in a creative way that somehow goes with the original melody intact (including the original vocal). This is what he is doing here. Kishore’s voice somehow fits on these new disco beats. And to make them fit, he has taken the effort to find grooves that match. I would not say I LOVE this remix because I am a “at the end of the day, I could just listen to the original song” guy but I appreciate this kind of remix. As opposed to redoing the vocals, changing the tempo and NOW adding really loud dance beats just because you can. If you listen to the Saiyan Dil Mein Aana Re remix I posted, that is what they did. Now I happen to find the original Saiyan to be pretty boring anyway, but the point is when you decide to record the song afresh, what you are doing is to make a cover and then call it a remix. A remix literally means that, re-mixing the song, not redoing it. By that yardstick, neither Ponmagal nor Masakali 2.0 are remixes really.They are, instead, just mediocre covers.
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hakimokimo
April 11, 2020
@KS: Actually Rahman praised the Humma remix.
https://m.hindustantimes.com/bollywood/ar-rahman-reveals-he-hasn-t-liked-any-bollywood-remix-of-his-songs-except-this-one-some-of-them-are-really-disastrous/story-Nz8e47hV5ypk2WYf2CmYUL.html
Actually Dharma announced that they will remix it. Many musicians gave their version and they like Tanishk’s version the most, Rahman approved it and Tanishk became the face of the remixes
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Bala
April 11, 2020
I completely will give benefit of doubt to ARR for experimenting with remixes a couple of times. During 2005, remix was a relatively new concept at least in Tamil cinema, and as far as ponmagal vandhal, the lyrics did seem to be tailor made for the situation in the movie.
And I really do feel the trend of remixes is a bit annoying as a fan.
But having said that, where do songs like “mangalyam thanthunane na”, “alaipayuthe”, or the more recent, “bhavamulona meets dubstep” fit in? Can they be called as remixes? Or, is this reductio ad absurdem?
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Josh-E-Maddy
April 11, 2020
It could very well be a diabolical plan to destroy film music and turn into a sour and dour industry.
Musicians, producers etc. like to tell us that we, the audience, dictate trends. But the truth is that we have no choice — we like what they want us to like. We just acquiesce to what they throw at us. (It’s easier for them to rehash old songs in an assembly line than creating something new.) Looks like that film critics, who once took pride in being free-thinking rebels and what-not, have eventually surrendered themselves to “current trends”. And that is quite an irony.
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KayKay
April 11, 2020
Masakali ain’t the only gem raided from the magnificent Delhi-6 vault.
But as the article below shows, Genda Phool also has a pretty storied background.
(BTW, am gonna shamelessly plug Karthik’s Milliblog. Big, big, fan of this guy. Love his musings, analysis and reviews of Indian Film Music)
https://milliblog.com/2020/03/29/plucking-the-genda-phool-twice/
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brangan
April 11, 2020
rsylviana: So I think this whole “oh these millennials are so dramatic” explanation is kinda unfair and so unlike BR ,if I may add.
Didn’t mean to generalise, of course 🙂 I’m just pointing out the fact that all these remixes pre-Twitter were pretty much let off with a sigh and a shrug — even through web-zines were alive and kicking. I’m saying Twitter adds that fuel, and when you combine that with a beloved musician like Rahman, the fire catches on. I’m betting no one would have batted an eyelid had someone remixed ‘Tum jo mil gayi ho’ or ‘Pakkathu veetu paruva machan’
Heck, Hip Hop Aadhi remixed G Ramanathan’s gorgeous KAPPALOTTIYA THAMIZHAN song (below) and I did not hear ANY outrage, despite it very much being post-Twitter 🙂
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brangan
April 11, 2020
Josh-E-Maddy: Looks like that film critics, who once took pride in being free-thinking rebels and what-not, have eventually surrendered themselves to “current trends”.
Was that a dig at me? 🙂 Anyway, film critics take a stand on the product — the film, the music — and not necessarily on the existence of something like a trend.
So yes, if I were to “review” this song, I might be stronger in my opinion — but as a card-holding liberal, I say EVERYTHING has a right to exist (provided it’s done legally, of course) 🙂
ALSO:
I believe the music belongs to the producer, too. The film belongs to the producer, too. The book belongs to the publisher, too. The play belongs to the producer, too.
Without a producer shelling out money for a recording session, paying the artists, paying the composer his enormous salary, the music simply exists in the head. It’s abstract. Or maybe it’s just Rahman doodling in his studio and making a recording for himself — like indie artsists do.
With movie soundtracks: It’s only when the producer pays up that music leaves the head/private studio space and enters the world as a PHYSICAL thing.
So yes, had Rahman been the producer of this album, I’d be much more outraged, but if T-Series is the “producer” of this music (or if they have “bought” the rights from the producer), then they can do whatever they want with it.
PS: This does not mean the “creator” has no stake or say in the music or book or whatever. But there’s a reason the Oscar for Best Film goes to the PRODUCER and not the director, because HE/SHE made the film possible to exist.
And I feel — in our support of the musicians (obviously, because we feel closer to them) — we completely ignore this fact.
Read this:
Almost all artist-label contracts dictate the copyright in the sound recording is granted to the label. Copyright law now requires anyone wanting to use the actual recording of the song to obtain permission from the label.
https://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2015/08/who-really-owns-music-exploring-the-dizzying-spiral-of-music-rights-and-payments-draft.html
Of course, I have grossly simplified a very complex topic, but — in a nutshell — just want to say that if T-Series “owns” the rights to “Delhi-6” and if the contract has been signed in their favour (which we have no way of knowing), then it’s totally up to them… assuming they are doing the right thing by paying royalties and all.
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Madan
April 11, 2020
” But the truth is that we have no choice — we like what they want us to like. ” – I think it feels like this because there is no independent music culture here. In general, when it comes to show biz, Indians are unable to express clearly what they want (active) and instead accept what the machine pushes (passive). There is a thriving independent music scene now. People can take their pickings of it if they want to, but obviously it involves more effort than film music and you will have to make ‘music friends’ and keep in touch with them just to find what are the new offerings and/or where you can catch them live next. I don’t know what the future of this scene is after covid but at least up until now, it’s been there, waiting to be embraced. Our neighbour Pakistan has done so and they did it long before India. Somehow in India, non-classical music is taken as synonymous with film music. That needs to end. What worked in the day of producers/directors who actually had passion and a vision for music is now just a cynical game of monetization of the T Series library.
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Rahini David
April 11, 2020
Is there anyone at all who never considered Masakali a gem?
Just me?
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Madan
April 11, 2020
“Is there anyone at all who never considered Masakali a gem?” – You have company. It is a song I find interesting rather than one which moves me either way.
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Isai
April 11, 2020
I don’t understand A R Rahman’s reaction. He remixed Ponmagal Vandhal in 2007. So, he would have been well aware in 2008 that his songs may also be remixed in the future. If he had wanted, he could have asked and retained the music rights of Delhi-6 by foregoing a portion of his fee. Even today, I think T-Series would be willing to give back the rights if they are adequately paid for it.
If Rahman’s problem is not with the remix itself but with the quality of the remix, he could volunteer to supervise the composition which again T Series would be glad to accept. But, koozhukkum aasai meesaikum aasai’na eppudi?
Sad to see AR Rahman join the club of film distributors, directors like GVM and actors who enter into a contract knowing full well that it may lead to several outcomes, some of which undesirable and then coming out and complaining that they are ‘victims of business of cinema’ only when it leads to an outcome unfavourable to them.
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KS
April 11, 2020
@Madan:
Thanks for the song recommendations. However, I’m afraid I still don’t see the difference between a cover and a remix. I can accept the strict technical definition of a remix as one that samples the original, mixes synthetic beats, and is all done electronically. With a funky dance rhythm and a rapper or two. But as I mentioned, this definition hardly holds anymore, since most songs we consider remixes aren’t technically remixes by this definition. The nomenclature had context back in the era of disco, vinyl records and turn tables, when remixes were done live on the dance floor. Not any more.
The distinction is important since when people hear cover, they think “a unique and creative reinterpretation of a classic song, preserving the soul of and serving as a homage to the original”. They picture passionate and talented young artists with acoustic guitars pouring their hearts out in a love letter to the original.
But when they hear remix, they think “a lazy violation of a beloved song padded with soulless synthetic sounds, to make money off our nostalgia”. They picture rich evil record producers , techie drones hammering on buttons, and exploitation of copyright law.
If you think about it, there really is no difference when it comes to effort or creativity involved. Personally I’m in favor of either. I keep discovering all the time that some of my favorite songs of the 70s are actually covers of songs by obscure bands from the 50s. Remixes/covers of Bob Dylan or Bob Marley songs are arguably as good, if not better, than the originals. Whats so sacred about the original anyway? Just because the artist comes up with a catchy tune or riff doesn’t mean the overall song is optimized to bring out its full beauty. So its great for everybody if someone else recognizes the potential of the original and builds on it. The attempt may fail or maybe its done for cynical money-making purposes, but the original is not overwritten or desecrated anyway, so no harm done.
As for Rahman’s displeasure over Masakali, I doubt we can take anything on face value. Surely he’s known of this project from its inception, considering both Rahman and the label producing it are influential members of the industry. For all we know, his criticism too could just be part of the publicity campaign orchestrated to get people talking. After all, if he had praised it, I don’t think I would have cared to check out the song. Praise is mundane, but when a celebrity acts like a jerk, its always a bigger spectacle and catches more eyeballs. Everybody wins this way. Rahman comes off as a perfectionist, his fans (who would anyway hate the remix) are happy with his validation, and lots more people are checking out the song now.
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rsylviana
April 11, 2020
@BR – Yep, I included Ramamurthy with MSV because the duo composed ARR’s other remix – Thottaal Poo Malarum.
BTW , I now get your whole point about the twitter backlash.
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Madan
April 11, 2020
“The distinction is important since when people hear cover, they think “a unique and creative reinterpretation of a classic song, preserving the soul of and serving as a homage to the original”. They picture passionate and talented young artists with acoustic guitars pouring their hearts out in a love letter to the original.
But when they hear remix, they think “a lazy violation of a beloved song padded with soulless synthetic sounds, to make money off our nostalgia”.”
In the first place, I will grant that this view is too romantic. You and I have already agreed that most covers are just mediocre reproductions of the original that are too faithful to it and don’t serve any purpose, don’t create any compelling reason as to why they should be heard.
However, it is true that the term remix when applied here in our film music soundtracks remains a reference to applying dance grooves on an original composition. There may or may not be other changes to the song but a remix necessarily works by way of adding synthetic grooves to the song. This is again not a bad thing by itself. What probably provokes the irritation – for those who find it irritating – is that earlier remixes were on independent music albums – like the DJ Aqeel one you posted – but for the last few years, remixes are now a mainstay of Bollywood soundtracks. Think about it, we call a soundtrack as OST – original soundtrack. So when the signature track of a soundtrack is a remix or if a soundtrack has two or more remixes (out of maybe five tracks), this seems to irk people. But again is it necessarily bad? And this brings me to…
“Remixes/covers of Bob Dylan or Bob Marley songs are arguably as good, if not better, than the originals. Whats so sacred about the original anyway?”
“The attempt may fail or maybe its done for cynical money-making purposes”
So….the issue, which may not be felt so much southside is indeed the cynical exploitation of original masters by T Series for remix after remix. There has been a spate of remixes (or covers, if you will) of old songs. Certainly it is very difficult to call the redoing of Ae Zindagi or Is Kadr Pyar Hain as remixes in the dance groove sense. This time, with Rahman himself leading the protests, it has blown up in a way it may not have.
But is it really T Series’ fault? Bollywood itself has changed a lot from the days when almost every film was a musical for all practical purposes. Songs just come and go as a montage of visuals accompanies it on the screen. If we’re being honest, we just have songs in our films now as a matter of habit and because they are thought of as aiding in the promotion of the film. If the latter is to happen, then it is unarguable that a remix of an old song is far better for marketing a film than taking a risk on a new composer.
As I mentioned in another post, if people really want to hear exciting new original compositions, maybe it’s time to start paying attention to the independent music scene. Yes, that will involve sifting through a lot of garbage. Such as…going to leave this here just for laughs.
For those who may not be in the know, the singer is now the MD and CEO of UMG and when last seen on the reality TV show The Stage, used to provide Shastri-style ‘shoot from the hip’ (a different body part is perhaps more apt in both cases) hottakes as he took down contestants who weren’t up to scratch with the authority of a tough taskmaster. Listening to the above clip will lead one to harbour serious doubts about his judgment.
But yeah, if you really want original content, go to a medium that supports it. And/or get over Ilayaraja/Rahman and pay attention to the efforts to new composers as and when they come up with something fresh. I thought Sid Sriram’s maiden effort brought a lot of urban (in the American genre sense of the word) soundscapes to the table but it has largely received an underwhelming response which I find puzzling. I mean, if there were all these people who really hate remixes owing to the alleged lack of creativity, you’d think they would embrace an effort that is at least interesting and different whether or not it agrees completely with each one’s tastes. If OTOH people want music that fits into their comfort zone but is not ‘called’ a remix/cover, then maybe what they need is the musical equivalent of The Irishman.
PS: ” I keep discovering all the time that some of my favorite songs of the 70s are actually covers of songs by obscure bands from the 50s.” – Please do share the names of some of these tracks. I know Carpenters specialised in covers. Curious which other ones you have uncovered, would love to listen. Especially since you said 50s. I hope you don’t mean Led Zeppelin. 😀
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hakimokimo
April 11, 2020
Speaking about the Remixes in Hindi films
This one is my favourite ( Amit Trivedi did also a lovely cover of Ae Zindagi Gale Laga le and Arijit sang both of them )
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KS
April 11, 2020
@Madan:
Off the top of my head, here a few some really popular songs I didn’t initially know were actually covers:
1) “Cocaine” by Eric Clapton. Everybody knows that “I shot the sheriff” is a cover, but Cocaine was a surprise.
2) “All along the watchtower” by Hendrix. Also “Hey Joe” and many Hendrix songs in fact.
3) “Knocking on Heavens door” by Guns n Roses.
4) “California Dreamin” by Mamas and Papas
5) “Louie Louie” by the Kingsmen
I’m guessing you already know that these are covers, but I’m sure you can find more.
As for the OST part, should the “original” in the title be taken too literally? Lets take Pulp Fiction or Kill Bill. The “OST” of those movies is entirely composed of covers and licensed music from eclectic sources. This happens often in Hollywood, and the creativity involved in composing new music is replaced by a different kind of creativity involved in picking just the right available music to suit the mood of the film. Tarantino digs deep and has great taste in choosing the right versions of the right songs for his movies.
Closer home, consider Super Deluxe. Remember the song “Andhiyile vaanam” that forms the backdrop of the guys sneaking to the mallu-film seller? Somehow it fit so well there, even though the original song is by no means a classic (btw its from some movie named Chinnavar featuring Prabhu and Kasturi).
My point is that movies are not obligated to provide original music. Sometimes it works better when you cleverly or subversively use familiar music in interesting new contexts. After all, not every movie requires phenomenal new music, nor is every filmmaker as invested in the quality of the music as Gautham Menon. Those who care less about it might as well license out tunes, thus saving the effort. Instead of going through the motions with fillers for the sake of it. If I have to choose between a so-so original creation versus a lazy rehash of a well-loved song, I’d definitely prefer the latter. We don’t have to coddle dullness just because it may be original. There is so much great, often underappreciated, music already out there which could use a second lease on life.
Personally, I should admit that I’ve never been a fan of Hindi film music in general. I have always found most Bollywood songs to be too uninspired and generic, propped up to popularity entirely by the media hyping them up and bombarding the people until they relent and hum along. The only exceptions being 2000s dance remixes, Emraan Hashmi songs and other “covers” of Bengali/Pakistani pop music 🙂 So I’d take their remixes anyday instead of their original offerings. We Tamils are very lucky in that regard, as every generation seems to be gifted with stellar musicians.
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KS
April 11, 2020
@Madan:
LOL on the video! The cringe was hard to sit through. Sadder than the guy rocking it out on stage is the horde of fans in the audience. Kewl doods with their black tees and goatees flashing the devils horn.
But seriously, Indian “rock” is so funny! I thought rock and roll grew out of the subaltern music of the underdogs in the west, as a kind of rebellion. The blacks and the working class who need a way to vent out their angst. To hit back against the closed clubs of classical high-art music patronized by the snooty elites. Hence the underlying themes of anarchy, breaking rules, sex/drugs, etc.
While here in India, somehow its the exact opposite. Pampered upper-middle class urban kids from Bangalore and South Mumbai with their daddies buying them expensive imported equipment. Singing in fake accents, rebelling against… I’m not sure what. I’d laugh to their faces if I weren’t envious of them for being surrounded by pretty girls. Maybe thats what its all about.
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Madan
April 11, 2020
“Lets take Pulp Fiction or Kill Bill. The “OST” of those movies is entirely composed of covers and licensed music from eclectic sources. This happens often in Hollywood,” – I agree with this example but I would also distinguish this or Super Deluxe (where using covers) has a specific purpose woven into the film itself as opposed to merely using a remix to generate buzz about the film and no other reason. Now, there’s nothing ‘wrong’ with that in the sense that the maker can do as he pleases but it’s not hard to see why that would attract criticism from the audience. Said another way, there’s nothing wrong with the pop machine making a star out of somebody who can’t sing pretty much at all like Britney Spears; but the notion of authenticity, whether or not illusory, is important to a section of the audience which is usually the one that raises its voice against it. There’s ultimately no right or wrong about this; we can only speculate why people talk about why they talk about.
” I thought rock and roll grew out of the subaltern music of the underdogs in the west, as a kind of rebellion. The blacks and the working class who need a way to vent out their angst.” – It is safe to say that rock’s history is much more fraught than the above narrative which they love to peddle and which they’d like one and all to believe in. Mick Jagger was a middle class guy, went to Grammar School and was even admitted to the LSE which he dropped out of. The original enfant terrible of rock, the rebel offered up as a contrast to the clean cut Beatles, was no different from our suburban engineer boys taking up rock and roll. Also, while it was the black musicians who wrote the book on the blues and had begun to rock it up before Beatles or Rolling Stones, once white boys became rock stars, they were ‘naturally’ found to be much more marketable than black guys and so, the story of black involvement in rock pretty much ended with Hendrix. There have been others off and on (Living Colour is an amazing band; again the half black Brit Slash was found more marketable than the more talented full black Vernon Reid). I could write and write about this but do read about the Detroit stadium incident. In all of this, meanwhile, rock has mostly become a music genre – and a pretty commercially successful one at that – which attracts fans more for what it offers musically as compared to pop. The mere fact that rock chooses to deal with angry/negative emotions offers a contrast with the constant feel good vibe of pop and this, I would say, is ultimately its biggest attraction. Note of course that these are all generalisations so there would be no point to discussing the myriad exceptions. Frankly, Fiona Apple’s music is a whole lot more rebellious and angry than Creed or, worse still, Coldplay; but again, she comes from a well off musical family. There you go.
” I have always found most Bollywood songs to be too uninspired and generic, propped up to popularity entirely by the media hyping them up and bombarding the people until they relent and hum along. ” – Hmm, it depends which era of Bollywood you would be referring to. The 80s (barring mostly Khaiyyam and some Jagjit/RDB) and 90s (barring Rahman in Hindi) were shit anyway. And the decline had begun in the 70s. But if you are talking about the 60s…well, I can certainly see where somebody would not be very much fond of Chaudvin Ka Chand or Lag Ja Gale. But is it media hype propping them up…and that too, entirely? If so, that must be a recent phenomenon because I have never seen Lag Ja Gale get covered by so many random people, including foreigners, as in the last few years. It’s almost like Madan Mohan never wrote another song. But I can tell you that growing up in Mumbai in the 90s, 60s Hindi film music certainly wasn’t considered cool. I KNOW because my dad was and is a huge fan of that era of music and I in turn developed the appreciation but didn’t find takers for it for the longest time. Only by the noughties did the conversation start to veer around to R D Burman and the era preceding it continued to not exist more or less (except for the people who had grown up listening to those songs back then, i.e, 60s).
Even now, the ‘accepted’ wisdom is that the greatest composer before RDB was SD Burman (duh, because he was his father and no other justification is needed, right?) and Naushad, Roshan or Shankar Jaikishan don’t get their due. So I don’t really see much if any hype around the 60s. It can seem that way though if say you drop into spaces like this here blog where, already, a lot of people who don’t necessarily follow mainstream trends gather to discuss about movies and music. In this space, you bringing in a perspective that is disdainful of that era of music may appear rebellious. But it only appears that way, it isn’t. You’re just different just as we are all different in different ways. And that’s as it should be.
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Madan
April 11, 2020
Oh, and on rock, just check out the origin stories of the members of Queen. That should be the last word on this notion of working class rebellion.
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Tambi Dude
April 12, 2020
“Remixes/covers of Bob Dylan or Bob Marley songs are arguably as good, if not better, than the originals.”
Absolutely. Here remixes have their own charm.
Sympathy for the Devils by Guns N Roses
or
Pretty Woman by Aerosmith is frequently played by FM stations. They are quite good.
Unfortunately in India, remix means Badshah has to contribute something.
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Ravi K
April 12, 2020
Re: “Ponmagal Vandhal”
On the CD cover and on ARR’s site the remix is credit to Krishna Chetan, was (is?) a programmer and engineer on ARR’s team. Not sure what, if any, involvement ARR had in the remix.
https://imgur.com/9Go684F
http://www.arrahman.com/discography_details.aspx?id=69
Uzbek singer Iroda Dilroz sang Uzbek versions of “Kadhal Sadugudu” (“Aye Udi Udi” in Hindi) and “Mustafa Mustafa.” I don’t know if she got permission, but her versions are pretty good and stand on their own. That’s the key to any cover version. Is the new version creatively interesting or is it just an exercise in brand recognition?
KS, I’ve found that the Indian attempts at rock I’ve heard are at best “fine” or “competent” and at worst pale imitations of American/European music I’ve already heard. When I want to listen to rock, punk, etc. I go to western bands, though Japan also has some interesting rock and punk music. I do like Ananda Shankar’s fusion stuff like “Dancing Drums” and “Streets of Calcutta.” His covers of “Jumpin’ Jack Flash” and “Light My Fire” are still pretty cool.
I agree about the the upper-middle class urban Indian kids you speak of. And they got into this music well after it was co-opted in the west and turned into corporate product. So that’s what they’re replicating. Hair metal, Metallica, and Megadeth seem to be the biggest influences on these bands, at least the ones I heard a while back. Even the posh kids probably weren’t listening to, say, The Sex Pistols or Bad Brains!
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Madan
April 12, 2020
” I’ve found that the Indian attempts at rock I’ve heard are at best “fine” or “competent” and at worst pale imitations of American/European music I’ve already heard.” – Well, that’s also because the media attention is focused on mediocre bands like Parikrama or Bhayanak Maut. There are lots of good bands – and lately some have shown an appetite for fusion which is heartening – but they are mostly low profile with a small following. Which is pretty much a reflection of where the scene’s at in US and Europe as well. Which was the last mainstream rock band worth mentioning? Maybe Muse and their best releases were from a decade and a half back. Otherwise it’s just Foo Fighters and all that shit. The days of making very accessible rock music that also has something fresh to offer are long gone.
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Madan
April 12, 2020
” Hair metal, Metallica, and Megadeth seem to be the biggest influences on these bands” – There is a problem, though, when you conflate these bands. Hair metal was a pure corporate product while Metallica and Megadeth built up following from the ground up and with every release, grew more and more popular until the suits and ties lined up to grab a slice of the pie. Yes Metallica ‘sold out’ in 1991 and Megadeth followed suit soon enough but what they did by then truly created an epoch of their own which is not something any of the hair metal bands could say because they had nothing new, musically, to offer that Scorpions, UFO, Van Halen, Rainbow and Iron Maiden hadn’t already done by the early 80s – just long hair and garish costumes with boatloads of misogyny.
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H. Prasanna
April 12, 2020
MSV on remixes:
https://www.newindianexpress.com/entertainment/2012/aug/13/msv-frowns-at-remixing-396706.html
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Amit Joki
April 12, 2020
I find the 80s music to be the best kind when it comes to English songs. Modern Talking’s most of the songs, Simon & Garfunkle’s The Sound of Silence, most of the mixtapes of Guardians of the Galaxy, Every Breath You Take by The Police, most of the Queen’s, The Night We Met.
The songs from musicals like La La Land, The Greatest Show on Earth are my taste too.
I guess the common aspect is that the all have great tunes AND their lyrics don’t drown in too much noise. And most of them are songs I’ve discovered from the backgrounds of series and TVs.
I’d be glad if someone could suggest me more songs like the above.
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vijay
April 12, 2020
BR why waste time on articles about nonsensical social media outrages?
I hope Twitter and the likes gets hit by some Coronavirus, so that dumb desis can focus on things more constructive and can exercise their critical thinking skills more
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Madan
April 12, 2020
Amit Joki: That’s a pretty confusing ask because Guardians of the Galaxy has lots of 60s and 70s songs in its mixtapes and you say you like 80s music most. Night We Met again is very much in the 60s style. Sound of Silence is again from the 60s. Regardless, I get the point – melody, vocal oriented with lyrics and not too much arrangement. Try these songs:
Actually a cover but this is one of those that kind of overshadowed the original:
Tell me which of these, if any, worked.
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Madan
April 12, 2020
Another reason why our covers don’t usually fare as well as in the West. Because they take a song and then they perform the hell out of it. Like this cover of Whiter Shade of Pale by Blackmore’s Night. The lady singing here is his (Ritchie Blackmore) wife Candice Night and she is a wonderful singer.
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Jayram
April 12, 2020
Here’s one of my favorite covers:
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rsylviana
April 12, 2020
https://www.ndtv.com/jaipur-news/coronavirus-updates-masakali-2-0-on-loop-jaipur-police-warning-to-lockdown-violators-2210518
All things said and done, Masakali 2.0 seems to be helping the policeforce tackle a global pandemic. How many remixes or original songs can claim that ? 🙂
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Rahul
April 13, 2020
I am with tejas. I loved the remix of roop tera mastana in those early days. Even the video was fresh and interesting .But yes, the outrage is not new, it has always been there. Not that I am keeping up with the flurry of remixes these days, but I feel that they are of the cookie cutter variety without a fresh approach to re imagining the original song. That said, I reject the idea that remixes cant be creative in their own way. Laxmikant used to compose the tunes and Pyarelal used to do the arrangements. If you are saying that remixes are not creative that means you are failing to acknowledge the arrangement part of the composition of a song.
There have been as many as three versions of Mehndi Hasan’s Gulo me rang bhare recently by Kay Kay , Mohit Chauhan and Arijit and I enjoyed all of them more or less. There have been many atrocious remixes as well. But people outrage as if the old version has been uninstalled from their mind , deleted from everywhere else and has been replaced by the new version like in a black mirror episode.
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Alex John
April 13, 2020
Like many has mentioned above, AR Rahman is as guilty as the Masalakali re-mixers from the angle of ‘breaking the original composer’s heart’. MSV was clearly unhappy with the rap-inserted remix of Ponmagal vandhal. Now what’s left is the legal aspect of it. If AR still has the song’s rights, he should fight those who remixed it rather than posting a subtle comment and being content about it.If he doesn’t have the rights,well, what else can he do other than posting a subtle comment and being content about it?
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Macaulay's Perapulla
April 13, 2020
Unrelated point: “It’s probably from a Hollywood movie. I can’t recall it offhand.” In the brief oral history of BR’s blog, this shall be noted as a significant epoch to mark the invisible grey hairs emerging from the sharp mind of our resident critic.
P.S.Would one day BR write about how he embraced Yoga to undergo a transformation from those bearded JNU types to become a doting love child of the chiranjeevi markandeyar and Benjamin button?
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Madan
April 13, 2020
“I feel that they are of the cookie cutter variety without a fresh approach to re imagining the original song. That said, I reject the idea that remixes cant be creative in their own way.” – This is fundamentally the issue with the way remixes are generally done (as opposed to how they CAN be done). I don’t think there’s anything particularly creative about adding English rapping and dance beats to an old song. It MIGHT make the song more palatable for those who do not like the sensibilities that informed the era in which the original was recorded (say 60s/70s for Ponmagal Vanthal). But that still doesn’t mean it takes a lot of imagination to make the remix in that way.
One remix from back in the day that came back to my mind due to this thread is of Zaroorat Hai:
Mind, I love the original. And I can still appreciate this remix because it somewhere retains the lightness of the original while being very different in so many ways. Note also the difference in production. They used light percussion back then rather than assaulting your ears with the sound of the drum track which is the modern way (and which I hate). Yeah, I do. Don’t care what that’s supposed to make me but there’s more to music than just the rhythm layer.
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KayKay
April 13, 2020
“I find the 80s music to be the best kind when it comes to English songs. Modern Talking’s most of the songs…….”
Modern Talking? Modern Talking????
Apologies, Amit mate, but Modern Talking has NO business being in the same sentence where Queen, The Police, Simon and Garfunkel are being mentioned.
Listening to a Modern Talking album is like hearing a Bhangra Remix CD. Get to the 4th track and they all sound indistinguishable.
Having said that, I do like the Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol 1 & 2 Awesome Mixes. Another soundtrack brimming with great tracks is “500 Days Of Summer”.
Tarantino’s OSTs I place on another level. It’s where the man’s masterful use and placements of songs give them not just a new lease of life but a revised identity all of it’s own .
Take Misirlou from Dick Dale. A surf guitar drenched track which opens Pulp Fiction. Do you see a beach anywhere in the film? Hear it now and the only image which’ll come to mind is a diner robbery about to commence.
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JPhil
April 13, 2020
Also putting in a more purist view of remixes/covers : Thaikuddam Bridge did a very popular cover of the Malayalam song ‘Mandaara Cheppundo ‘(from the ’89 movie Dasharatham).The original is much loved, aided in part by Mohanlal’s endearing performace as a man-child and the song plays on a montage of him awaiting with excitement the birth of his chid via a surrogate mother.
A close friend of mine would often deride the remix and he explained that the original was composed in Shuddha Dhanyasi and had at least a karuna(a pleading ) bhavaam (the feeling it evokes) or even a more neutral one,but that the remix was quite flat and even romantic. Perhaps this is why-sometimes subconciously-we react quite oppositionally to the changed situation and rendition of the remixes. The change in situationality probably irks us at a deeper level than we realise.
On another note,’Thottal Poomalarum’ too is probably composed in Suddha Dhanyasi….?
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Madan
April 13, 2020
“Listening to a Modern Talking album is like hearing a Bhangra Remix CD. Get to the 4th track and they all sound indistinguishable.” – Holy shit! I just checked out a few random songs on Youtube and you’re damn right about that one! 😀 It’s like taking continuum to a new level.
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Amit Joki
April 13, 2020
Madan: Sorry. I assumed they would be the 80s music. To be honest, I wouldn’t have guessed in a hundred years that the songs I liked were from 60s, they don’t seem old.
The songs worked. I could listen to them. Here are some more of the songs to further refine what my taste is.
I liked the below too.
Boney M’s Rasputin and One Way Ticket, Daddy Cool.
Lemon Tree – Fools Garden.
Hey there Delilah.
Passenger – Let Her Go.
James Blunt – You’re Beautiful.
Savage Garden – I knew I loved you.
John Cale – Hallelujah.
Billy Joel – We didn’t start the fire.
Elvis Presley – Can’t Help Falling in Love With You.
Led Zeppelin – Stairway to Heaven
The reason I can list them is because I’ve made a playlist in Youtube.
Madan even in the videos suggested, I loved the last one better than the others. I guess I can now define it.
I am guessing a catchy melody. And voice should be on top of the music. Not the other way around where the voice drowns among the music. I gave my favorties a listen and all of them had clear lyrics and voices that came to the foreground with the soothing music delegated to the background in a nice complementing way.
I hate songs where I can’t make out the lyrics. I can’t get myself to like songs like, AC-DCs Highway to Hell. It’s just noise to me.
KayKay:
It was during my first year of the college that the English professor trying to you know wanting us to like him took to the AV lab and started playing Modern Talking’s Brother Louis, Chery Chery Lady. Everyone was like meh. I got hooked. This was the first conventional songs in English that I liked.
That same day I was browsing Youtube clicking on all of the Modern Talking’s late into night. Yeah they seem to have the same tune but it is like comfort food you know.
Linkin Park is like that too I guess. The interludes are eerily similar.
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Madan
April 14, 2020
Amit Joki:
” To be honest, I wouldn’t have guessed in a hundred years that the songs I liked were from 60s, they don’t seem old.” – 60s in US/UK means something different from 60s in the Tamil music context. 60s was the decade the music revolution really began, so there is a lot of music from that decade that’s still fresh (though I prefer the 70s). This was one of Beatles tracks from 1970, this may well be too complex for you but the point I am trying to make is these arrangements stand the test of time and are fresh even today.
Hmm, so if you liked What I Did For Love most, what I will do is post a bunch of Broadway, soul and other genres. Again, tell me which of these you like most and I will accordingly suggest more songs:
Broadway:
R&B/Soul
(another cover that simply swept away the original)
Misc
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KS
April 14, 2020
@Madan:
” My Peter-ing days on this blog may be at an end now.”
Doesn’t seem like it at all. Reading your replies is like watching a Myshkin interview where the answer to every question would be Doestovsky/Tolstoy/JosephCampbell/Kurosowa! 🙂 Just kidding, thanks for the recos. Though I must warn in general that if you throw in too many video links or esoteric references, people would stop bothering to read further. You’re lucky we’re all in lockdown now and have nothing better to do.
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KayKay
April 14, 2020
For me, usually a gauge of how superior a cover song is simply boils down to how much i love the voice of the rendering vocalist.
I love Rod Stewart’s voice. To quote Elton John, the Rodfather has a voice that can “get your feet tapping one minute, and break your heart the next”.
And Stewart’s done sooooo many cover versions, entire albums are nothing but. They don’t all work (especially the misfire of his interpretations of classic crooner ballads In the Great American Songbook Albums) but some of them are absolutely gorgeous IMHO.
Such as:
I don’t MIND the original Tom Waits’ version of Downtown Train (features some great guitaring)
But Stewart’s cover simply takes it into another realm of emotion
Robbie Robertson’s “Broken Arrow” also features some exquisite guitaring, but Robertson was always a better songwriter than a singer
Now, just see Stewart’s husky vocals wring every drop of yearning from the lyrics (“I’ll come to you if I have to crawl, they can’t hold me behind these Iron Walls”)
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Madan
April 14, 2020
@ KS
“thanks for the recos” – Welcome.
“Though I must warn in general that if you throw in too many video links or esoteric references, people would stop bothering to read further.” – From a rock lover’s perspective, I don’t think those references or vids are esoteric, at least not intentionally so. There’s a line from a Steely Dan song that perfectly sums up my predicament:
“Hey Nineteen that’s Retha Franklin/She Don’t Remember the Queen of Soul/It’s Hard Times Befallen Soul Survivors/ She Thinks I am Crazy But I am just growing old :(”
Or…when I have to explain that by Talat, I mean Talat Mehmood and not Talat Aziz. 😦 Ippa you might say who is Talat Aziz, we have got to the point where neither Talat is in the conversation anymore. 😦
So yeah, believe it or not, I am mostly pulling out the most mainstream of songs that I at least put up with (Last Christmas) or like/love (most of the rest that I posted). If I started talking about, um, Iamthemorning (yes, that’s a band name), Bent Knee, Frontierer, Glass Animals, people will start comparing it to Kamal Haasan interviews. And I am not the most ‘esoteric’ guy from among the rock lovers I know online, not even close; I have stopped rummaging for ‘hidden treasures’ and am content with whatever falls into my lap via recommendations. Man, if you ever met some of them (these other esoteric types)…
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Madan
April 14, 2020
Kaykay: Rodfather seems to be to 80s AOR what Carpenters were to adult contemporary music in the 70s. He actually started life as a rocker in the 70s but adapted well, commercially at least, to the 80s. He turns every song he covers into AOR. Which can also get irritating and repetitive at times. But the flipside is it becomes a Rod Stewart brand by itself, just like Carpenters, and you forget that he is performing covers and not original songs.
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Amit Joki
April 17, 2020
Madan: Thanks for those. They were good. By the way, I came to know that DJ Avicci has sampled A.R.Rahman’s Banaarasiya song from Raanjhanaa in his Tough Love song.
It was innovative though I don’t think it gelled well.
Also, I’ve been watching Money Heist and I discovered this absolute gem of a song – Bella Ciao. What genre does it come under? It has thumping, arousing beats. The best version I’ve heard of, is this:
I also loved another song – Guantanamera
I guess TV shows and movies have the best songs referenced in them.
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Pranitha
May 8, 2020
Even tho remakes have been around for a while, I think it’s become esp annoying now, not bec there’s more people online to complain about music to, but bec its like the only thing Hindi cinema is pumping out now. Every other song is a freakin remake, and the few original songs released every year are pretty crappy too. They all sound like wannabe hits from a decade ago. It’s like they didn’t want to do a remake but had zero creativity, so their “original” song sounds the same as everything else in the album and every other song from the past 2 decades.
Music from the South is still great tho. And I’m like 20 so it’s not like remakes ruin songs that I’m nostalgic abt, I just want original music! Is that a lot to ask for?
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