Interview: Gautham Vasudev Menon (on Karthik Dial Seydha Yenn)

Posted on May 25, 2020

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Posted in: Cinema: Tamil, Interview, Short Films

37 Responses “Interview: Gautham Vasudev Menon (on Karthik Dial Seydha Yenn)” →

abishekspeare

May 25, 2020

this is going to be the only AskBR where the video is longer than the film xD

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brangan

May 26, 2020

The interview is up.

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abishekspeare

May 26, 2020

GVM has liberated the kollywood romance the same way Imtiaz Ali did for hindi cinema

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abishekspeare

May 27, 2020

regarding you asking him if its possible to make a full feature film in lockdown, RGV just did

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Srinivas R

May 27, 2020

I feel GVM has a lot of good, interesting ideas but on screen they don’t come together as well as you (as an audience) want to. May be its just my high expectations, but he is a film maker whose movies I will always watch. I like the fact that he is cool with criticism and doesn’t get defensive.

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Isai

May 28, 2020

I don’t get all this fuss about emotional infidelity. And, I don’t think Jessie has friend zoned or kid zoned Karthik.

There are 3 things that we know about Jessie and Karthik: Jessie has known Karthik for a very long time now and not only does she feel safe around him but is also confident that she can handle him. Karthik had/has strong romantic feelings for Jessie and would drop everything and be ‘ready and waiting’ to be with her when the need arises. Most importantly, Karthik is currently not quite successful so she is not tempted to immediately switch over. All this makes Karthik the ideal BACKUP.

I would say a lot of women would have or like to have such a backup. I think if Raymond’s ever made an ad ‘for the complete woman’, a child, a backup and a sister with < 3 years age difference should definitely be shown in it.

It would be interesting to see if Jessie had pondered about this backup scenario when she was dilly-dallying to start a relationship with Karthik. I believe she would have considered that even if they didn’t get married, he could still be retained as a nice backup and that’s what would have tilted the scales in favor of the relationship.

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rsylviana

May 28, 2020

@Isai – Ignoring your whole backup theory , whats with the “complete woman with a sister < 3 years age difference” thing? You mean an ideal woman should/will have a < 3 years age difference?

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Anu Warrier

May 28, 2020

I would say a lot of women would have or like to have such a backup.

And I would dearly like to know your sample size for this rather insulting theory since it is not in the context of the film.

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Isai

May 28, 2020

The backup theory is not mine. I had first heard a version of it from a Manipuri friend eons ago and had dismissed it. But over the years, a lot of things that I have seen, heard and read fit too neatly into that theory that I am not able to dismiss it. Most recently, I remember reading about this poll done in UK (link below).

While googling for this link, I got to see another example of how media filters and twists the same news as per their own policies and agendas.

Original Source:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2769593/HALF-women-fall-partner-standby-fancied-case-current-relationship-turns-sour.html

Cheap Sensationalism:
https://m.timesofindia.com/life-style/relationships/love-sex/study-says-50-of-women-in-a-relationship-have-a-back-up-partner/photostory/72845378.cms

Misogynistic tint:
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/10/07/poll-more-than-half-of-women-have-a-plan-b/amp/

Gen Z ‘lighthearted’ version (it also includes a hyperlink about dating and free food):
https://curlytales.com/new-research-shows-that-over-50-of-women-in-relationships-have-a-back-up-partner/amp/

Academic Version (my preference, including the research hyperlink):
https://www.scoopwhoop.com/amp/relationships/here-is-why-your-girlfriend-probably-has-a-backup-partner/

Finally, feminist or the ‘correct’ version:
https://www.idiva.com/relationships-love/relationships/study-reveals-fifty-percent-women-in-relationships-have-backup-partners-just-incase/18003787

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Isai

May 28, 2020

“You mean an ideal woman should/will have a < 3 years age difference?”
It would be incredibly stupid and patriarchal of me to even think that me or any man can define what an ideal woman will or should have.

What I meant was that, IMHO, like motherhood, having a sister with an age difference around ❤ years is a life shaping influence on a woman. I find the ‘competitiveness’ between such sisters to be fascinating. (As the age difference increases, and I knew women who had sisters younger than their daughters, the relationship tends to become more maternal).

In my experience, such women having sisters grow up to be more cynical towards other women. For example, they can more easily believe that Shakti suspected Poorni in Alaipayuthey. I like such women because they are more tolerant of some of my cynical observations about women, since they can relate it to their sisters. Whereas when I expressed the same observations to women with only brothers, I found that they tend to take it a lot more personally and their pent-up frustration towards their brothers or other men in their lives, gets misdirected towards me. That’s why, due to my personal bias, I find women having such sisters to be more ‘enriched’ or ‘complete’.

P. S: I really like ‘Pride & Joy’ episode of The Crown and the depiction of Mary and Edith characters in Downton Abbey and was fascinated to see how much they correspond to what I had personally seen and was referring to in the above comment.

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KayKay

May 29, 2020

Great interview, B! I see GVM has The Farm by Tom Robb Smith on his shelves which automatically puts him in my cool book 🙂

That one statement that “this is the head space” Karthik and Jessie are in nicely encapsulates this lovely short film. And I’m jazzed about the follow up and the reason behind Jessie’s “3 second pause”.

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Anu Warrier

May 29, 2020

I like such women because they are more tolerant of some of my cynical observations about women, since they can relate it to their sisters.

Man, talk about digging a hole and then digging it deeper. So, women with sisters tend to be ‘more tolerant’ of your views?

I have a sister. And I don’t endorse your views. Neither about the competitiveness. Nor about the cynicism towards my sisterhood.

I found that they tend to take it a lot more personally and their pent-up frustration towards their brothers or other men in their lives, gets misdirected towards me.

Way to ascribe motivations to women who aren’t ‘more tolerant’ of your archaic views on women!

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Isai

May 30, 2020

“I have a sister. And I don’t endorse your views.”

If you don’t mind, can you kindly tell what is the birth order of you and your siblings and the age difference between each of you? (I guess there is a brother between you and your sister). Maybe my theories are wrong. Your answer will perhaps help me refine/discard such views.

“..women who aren’t ‘more tolerant’ of your archaic views on women!”

Archaic?? Google says it means “very old fashioned, no longer used”. Can you tell which of my views are very old fashioned and kindly provide a link to historical books where it was discussed? Because I thought these views were rarely discussed or even expressed in mainstream literature. If these views were discussed and discarded long back, I will be able to learn the reasons for why they are wrong and hence stop expressing such refuted views and wasting everyone’s time.

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Varsha Ganesh

May 31, 2020

I am flabbergasted by Isai’s last few comments. Isai – are you a man or a woman, if you don’t mind my asking?

IMO, your views about women are a very misogynistic take on pitting women against women, with a “man” being the ultimate prize that they are supposed to be competing over. I have a sister, I have close cousins who are women, and I am surrounded by women friends, your views absolutely make no sense. There is neither cynicism nor competitiveness, as Anu mentioned. There is support, empathy, humor, and great food. If you are a woman, I can only say you need to meet more supportive women. They are out there. If you are a man, I have nothing further to say, except that the sisterhood is strong, thank you very much!

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Isai

May 31, 2020

@ Varsha Ganesh – I am a man. Thanks for sharing your views. You mentioned that you have a sister. Can you kindly also mention the birth order and age difference between you and all your siblings?

I request other women who feel similarly to kindly share their views, along with the birth order, gender and the age difference between them and their siblings. I feel that not only will this feedback help in shaping my views, but it will also help me to introspect. Thanks.

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Madan

May 31, 2020

My mother is the eldest of three sisters. There is absolutely no rivalry or competition between them. There would have been when they were kids but not after they became adults. Two of my uncles are at loggerheads OTOH. Are there sisters who have a competitive relationship? Absolutely. But there are also sisters or siblings generally who do not compete. I remember mentioning to you once before that many factors affect the nature of such relationships. It is not about just ‘only child’ or brother-brother or brother-sister or sister-sister relationship. And sometimes, it can come down to human nature, plain and simple.

On another note, as an only child, I have never come up with thesis on how those with siblings behave. It is only and only the ones with siblings who have told me (and this is cutting across age groups), “Oh, only child, you must be pampered.” I wish. One of my childhood friends had a sister and he was the one who used to get exotic gifts like a tennis racquet and ball set (literally nobody else in my residential colony in suburban Mumbai had one then) and I didn’t. I wouldn’t ask for anything pretty much because I knew without being told as much that while we got our meals and occasional movie visit and all, money was tight. But yeah, only child means pampered by default. I am doubly certain my wife, also an only child, vehemently disagrees.

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sai16vicky

May 31, 2020

@Madan: Yes, being a single child myself, I don’t believe in the “single children are always pampered” theory either. I was hardly pampered and in contrast, my uncle’s two children had the very definition of pampering 🙂 . Plus, this is all so subjective (parents, upbringing and so on) — I don’t know why @Isai is trotting out a theory based on it.

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Anu Warrier

June 1, 2020

Isai, just so I’m not dismissing your opinion based on previously-published similar viewpoints regarding men, women, relationships in general, etc.

(I guess there is a brother between you and your sister).

Like everything else in your statements regarding the above, you guess (and assume) wrong. I’m the youngest of four. The next eldest is my sister, five years older. And we have two older brothers. I’ve squabbled with my brothers; I don’t remember ever squabbling with my sister. Either when we were children, or when we grew up. Of course, we have disagreements. Like with anyone else in my life. But as Varsha points out, we mainly have support, empathy, and humour, and yes, great food.

Are there women of the kind you speak of? Absolutely. I’m not denying that. But the sort of generalisations you make regarding women (specifically) and their relationships vis-à-vis men and indeed, other women, are frankly, troublesome. Women have enough to battle in this world without being pitted against each other.

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Anu Warrier

June 1, 2020

Madan – regarding single children… I hear you! 🙂

I don’t think it matters where you are in the pecking order, or if there isn’t any pecking order at all! Generalisations and stereotypes abound. I got the ‘Oh, you’re the youngest; you must have been pampered.” Like you, I knew that in a family with a single earning member and four kids, money was tight. We grew up mostly in hand-me-downs from older cousins, and the focus was on needs, not wants. And no one got things handed to them because of their birth order. Besides, I had three siblings who could squash me at any expression of pampering or spoilt brattishness. 🙂

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Kay

June 1, 2020

Isai – I’m sorry to say, but those are some batshit crazy assumptions that you have made. How many such women have you come across? I have 9 cousins with two of them closer to my age – one elder by an year and one younger – I can say there is only support, positivity, sharing and a lot of empathy between the three of us and also among all of us. Whatever competition we had was mostly good, like who got better marks in board exams (when we were younger). Now that we are all grown up and have seen our shares of ups and downs there is nothing but support and lot of laughter.

About the backup theory, since when are articles on scoopwhoop and idiva, which are based on an article in Daily Mail, which is again based on a questionable research conducted among a sample size of 1000 women from god knows where, accepted as academic and feminist takes on the issue?

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Varsha Ganesh

June 1, 2020

Isai – I’m older by 5 years and we are just the two of us.

I honestly have never come across this sort of competition in my experience, as I mentioned. I’m surprised to hear others have seen it occasionally. Dare I say it could be so in families where the women’s survival depends on her ‘bagging’ a man for whatever reason- no way of studying to establish a viable career and financial independence, family completely unsupportive of her career, poverty etc. I’m hard pressed to think of examples where women with financial independence would act that way. Completely understand if it’s done for survival though. That’s a basic need after all and we’ve evolved to put survival above most else.

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KayKay

June 1, 2020

Isai, to your points:

“here are 3 things that we know about Jessie and Karthik: Jessie has known Karthik for a very long time now and not only does she feel safe around him but is also confident that she can handle him.”
-Yup absolutely agree

“Karthik had/has strong romantic feelings for Jessie and would drop everything and be ‘ready and waiting’ to be with her when the need arises”

-hmmm…I think like all Romantics….Karthik is in love with the IDEA that he’d drop everything for her and “be ready and waiting” like you say BUT….it would depend on what state his other obsession is in…films. The Karthik in the current headspace as per the short film (writer’s block, creative lethargy, enforced isolation) may well do it, but if he’s right in the middle of a busy shoot of his film and completely immersed in the film-making process??? VTV clearly demonstrated a scene where he wasn’t emotionally available for Jessie as he was busy with a film.

“Most importantly, Karthik is currently not quite successful so she is not tempted to immediately switch over. All this makes Karthik the ideal BACKUP.”

-Ok this I totally don’t agree with.

Without speculating in ANY way how Gautham is planning to structure the follow up to Karthik Dial Seytha En and the reason behind Jessie’s brief 3 second pause and the state of her relationship with Roy, based on what this short showed us, Jessie has comfortably and confidently moved on. She has grown to love a husband and has had children with him, and IF there are undercurrents to her marriage, then she’s confident enough to deal with them WITHOUT any sort of expectation for a “backup”.

Look Isai, can I ask if you’ve been in a relationship? I mean a flat out “knock you on your ass while lifting you to exhilarating highs” emotional experience? Or did you like most Indian males, make that gigantic Leap of Faith from the College Podium to the Marriage Dais?

In my admittedly meager experience in these matters (ok, 2 serious “I was so sure this is the ONE” relationships before marriage which doesn’t exactly make me Warren Beatty but the old heart’s seen some mileage) women don’t exactly act in this way. They don’t necessarily leave a man for another man, Jessie didn’t leave Karthik for Roy, she made that decision knowing the insurmountable (for her, at least) obstacles she’d face coupled with her own doubts about her and Karthik. And if she makes another life changing decision, I doubt she’d require the safety net of a “Backup”.

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shemz

June 1, 2020

@Isai – For your theory about sisters with specific age gap to make sense, have you removed all other contributing factors from the equation ? What about sisters who are separated by 4 years, yet so close in mental age that the extra year is negligible ? How about cousins who were raised by grandparents, under the same roof, with parents living away? Will they qualify for your studies/ theory ? Have you talked to these people?

“That’s why, due to my personal bias, I find women having such sisters to be more ‘enriched’ or ‘complete’.” So, what do you mean by complete and enriched? Of course, the definition of these terms vary widely based on context and the person, so what do you mean when you use these words? The only conclusion that could be drawn from your comment is that their views aligned with yours, and by saying they/ their views are enriched/ complete, you are indirectly referring to your views as complete and enriched. I would be embarrassed to use them, in referring to someone else, especially a large group of people based off of a very small subset I have interacted with.

Also, what is the point in enquiring the age difference between every woman and her sister who comments here? Someone raises a point and your only counter argument is – what’s the age difference between you and your sister? How does that influence the validity of what she is saying? How is this different than dismissing views because they originated from a woman/ from a younger person/ from a person with specific education etc.?

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Anu Warrier

June 2, 2020

About the backup theory, since when are articles on scoopwhoop and idiva, which are based on an article in Daily Mail, which is again based on a questionable research conducted among a sample size of 1000 women from god knows where, accepted as academic and feminist takes on the issue?

Amen! And when those clickbait articles are his reference points, it stands to reason that the very foundation of his arguments are flawed.

Also, I find the very idea of a ‘backup’ very insulting – to both men and women!

@shemz,
How does that influence the validity of what she is saying?

It doesn’t change the validity of my opinion at all. (Speaking for myself) The only reason I even bothered to answer that question is because I’m trying hard to give him the benefit of the doubt. If answering that will make him see that his confused generalisations of women are just that – based on his extremely small sample size – then perhaps it will broaden his perspective?

I’m glad that Varsha, you and Kay joined in to tilt at the windmills of sexism and misogyny.

And thank you, Double K, for adding your two cents worth. Tip o’ the hat to you, sir!

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Isai

June 6, 2020

Apologies for the delayed response. I needed some time to introspect on my ‘batshit crazy’ assumptions. I will start with the backup topic, then move to sisters and Jessie in my later comments.

About Backup:

1to1help.net is a leading service provider for mental health and wellness in India. It is founded by a WOMAN and has a team of 125+ counsellors and is present across 55 locations in India.

Rochelle Mary Alford is a FEMALE psychological counsellor, working in this organization and whose masters specialization includes marriage and family therapy. This is what she had commented in the idiva article link that I had shared earlier: (I am quoting it here, in part, since some seemed too enraged to read it earlier): “..the moment you feel UNSURE, UNLOVED or UNSTABLE in your current relationship, ideas of a ‘plan B’ crop up as a defense mechanism. It’s more normal than we think.”

This statement set me thinking. I had watched Thappad movie the previous day and there is a scene in which the maid says ‘What will I do if my husband locks me out?’. I have met a few women facing domestic violence and as per them, the primary reason they endured it was because they had no other option. They were not financially secure, their parents were not able/willing to take them back and they simply had nowhere else to go. I won’t go too deeply into statistics, but I believe there are several lakhs if not crores of women in this situation. So, I put myself in their shoes and asked the question ‘What if I had a choice? A backup, whom even if I don’t use, can still be a deterrent to my husband’s abusive behavior. Would I want that? The answer was a resounding YES. (I CHALLENGE a SINGLE woman here to FIRST put herself in such women’s shoes and then honestly say NO). This corresponds to the ‘UNLOVING’ part of Rochelle’s statement.

I also thought about the western style of relationships, after reading the UK survey. I thought that since relationships are formed and broken more easily there, they often tend to be more ‘UNSTABLE’, fitting again with Rochelle’s statement.

That is why I had said a lot of women would have OR LIKE TO HAVE such a backup. Note that the survey didn’t talk about ‘liking to have’ which I had included after also thinking about Indian women.

Again, that is why I had suggested the backup option for Jessie, who was perennially ‘UNSURE’ about what she wanted, again corresponding to Rochelle’s statement above (I will write about this in my later comments).

‘A lot of’ doesn’t mean ALL or MOST or even a MAJORITY. It just means ‘a large number of’. As I mentioned above, a large number of women having or wanting to have a backup, makes perfect sense to me.

I think some women were flabbergasted by my statement only because they were financially secure and had a loving, stable relationship and they thought only about women like them.

But, I think my statement is 100% correct and I still stand by it and would like to hear in case anyone still thinks it is flawed.

This is yet another example for me, that in discussions about feminism, I tend to think about equality and fairness whereas the women tend to only think about……themselves.

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Isai

June 6, 2020

About close age sisters:

My Alaipayuthey comment seems to have not gone down well with some people which led to some responses like:

“very misogynistic take on pitting women against women, with a “man” being the ultimate prize..”

IMHO, men are no prize, leave alone the ultimate prize. My Alaipayuthey comment has little to do with the man or even with sex. I believe Shakti suspected Poorni because Shakti was somehow responsible for Poorni’s MARRIAGE being CALLED OFF and then their FATHER also DIED, so Shakti FEARED that Poorni might be ENRAGED and may do this to her ONLY out of VINDICTIVENESS. Now, a boy beaten by his elder brother for accidentally breaking his favorite toy, would grow up having such fears. Similarly, a woman who has experienced intense sibling rivalry in childhood, would more easily buy this view, IMHO.

Now, let us look at some facts. Did I say that women cannot/do not have healthy, loving relationships with other women, including cousins, classmates etc.? NO. (If you disagree anywhere, please re-read my comments and quote the EXACT words).

Did I say that women cannot/do not have healthy, loving relationships with their sisters? NO. I MADE A CLEAR DISTINCTION when I mentioned about the age difference between the sisters being LESS THAN 3 YEARS. I also mentioned that, as the age difference increases, the relationship tends to become more MATERNAL. Now, tell me in which dictionary does the word MATERNAL mean COMPETITIVE or CYNICAL? Anu and Varsha Ganesh having sisters with age differences of FIVE years and having loving relationships with their sisters only VALIDATES my view and doesn’t CONTRADICT it. It also shows that I have no interest in pitting women against each other. For if I had that motive, then why I would VOLUNTARILY comment about the MATERNAL aspect of some such relationships?? Frankly, I have never liked to pit women against each other. I have always liked to pit ALL of them…against me.

I believe that relationships between women/sisters can be good or bad JUST LIKE how it can be between men/brothers. I was specifically talking about SIBLING RIVALRY:

Wikipedia says “Sibling rivalry is particularly intense when children are very close in age and of the same gender..”.

This is what I was talking about, with the specific gender being woman and the age difference being less than 3 years. Now, why was I talking about this? Well, let me explain.
I have had MANY MINOR bad experiences with some women, girls right from childhood, perhaps due to which I have mostly felt cynical about them, right from high school. But, in my mid-20’s, I felt deeply BETRAYED by a MAN, whom I trusted and considered as a father figure, due to which I had a major setback in my career. Even though it was very painful then, looking back, I feel that it was also a maturing/’enriching’ experience that also pushed me towards developing a more BALANCED perspective about men and women.

Similarly, in MY experience, some women were simply unable to accept that SOME women can occasionally be cruel, vindictive and hurtful, JUST LIKE SOME MEN. I guess that while they have had some bad experiences with men, they may not have had such bad experiences with women and hence are unable to relate to what I say. But, some women didn’t react this way and seemed more open to considering the possibility that women can also be as flawed/bad as men. IN MY EXPERIENCE, apart from psychologists, I found that almost all such women had a sister with an age difference of less than 3 years. So, that is how this view developed, driven by a need to find women around whom I can feel comfortable enough to share my experiences and feelings, WITHOUT encountering a HISSY FIT. I never said that this theory can be universally applied to all women. I don’t think ANY theory can. That is I why used the words MY PERSONAL BIAS.

Also, instead of the word competitiveness, I actually wanted to use the word rivalry, since it is called sibling rivalry, but I feared that it may trigger some landmines and hence used what I thought was a safer word, but it anyways did.

@Madan:
I didn’t say that sibling rivalry plays out differently between men and women. I also didn’t say/mean that every woman with a close age sister, will experience the same amount of rivalry. I was only explaining MY personal preference developed based on MY personal experiences involving a need to find women around whom I can feel comfortable. That too only when someone asked. And I clearly wrote my PERSONAL BIAS. So, why shouldn’t I be able to express it without feeling that I am talking ill about a dead person during their funeral?

@Kay:
“I have 9 cousins with two of them..”
Let us not compare apples and oranges. In psychology, relationship between cousins and between siblings simply cannot be equated. Cousin relationships are treated on a much lesser scale of importance and are more like relationship between neighbours, classmates etc. Yet again, I am not even saying that all women with close age sisters will experience rivalry. But, if you are saying that nobody does, then I suggest you start reading about sibling rivalry, starting with the New York times article link that I shared above.

On the other hand, if you agree that it could have happened to some women, but I should not write about it, EVEN AFTER using qualifiers beginning with “IMHO.. In MY experience..I found…my PERSONAL BIAS” etc. because it is ‘detrimental to the cause of women who are already having it so tough’, well sorry but I don’t agree with that view and think of it only as an unintentional attempt that suppresses my freedom of expression.

@shemz:
“..have you removed all other contributing factors.. what about.. how about..”

I ADMIRE the way you think.

To answer your question honestly, No.

But, in my defense, it was only an impulsive comment on a movie blog and not a submission to the International Journal of Indian Psychology. I have explained my motive above and had also repeatedly mentioned right from my original comment that it is my personal bias. Further, I will be quite happy to receive more data and refine these views.

“So, what do you mean by complete and enriched? ”

Please refer to the balanced perspective that I mentioned above.

“what is the point in enquiring the age difference….How does that influence the validity of what she is saying?”

Let me reply through an example:
I comment here that African-Americans feel that they are being targeted by the Police. I receive a reply saying that I am American and I have never felt targeted and this is just propaganda by America’s enemies. The person’s profile photo shows a WHITE guy. So, I first ask him to mention his RACE..And you are asking me what is the point? How does this influence? etc… Well, what can I say??

“your only counter argument is..”

There was NO counter argument there. I just wanted to get the facts recorded first.

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Isai

June 6, 2020

@Kay:
I am curious to know if you still think my assumptions are ‘batshit crazy’.

“About the backup theory, since when are articles on scoopwhoop and idiva…accepted as academic and feminist takes on the issue?

I am not accepting it as any take and am not vouching for the credibility of these news organizations. I shared these links to make a TOTALLY DIFFERENT POINT about how news coming from the same source is being ‘SPINNED’ differently by different organizations.

In the above example, the original source was Daily Mail. But, CBS Local called such women as a ‘scheming lady’ (not there in the original source) which I thought was Misogynistic. (Ironically, both the original source and the CBS local news articles were written by women, which again reinforces the point I made in my previous comment about women only thinking about themselves).

Idiva didn’t just reproduce the news, it approached an Indian psychology counsellor, Rochelle, who began by saying that it is unfair to stereotype behavioral patterns based on gender. (I had mentioned more about this in my backup comment). I agree with her on this but ironically she also says ‘it is the truth that women are more nurturing and romantic’. I don’t disagree with this, but it can be equally argued that if someone else had provided for men for thousands of years, they would also have evolved to be ‘more nurturing and romantic’. So, while she says that stereotyping is bad when it is unfair to women, she doesn’t seem to mind when it is in women’s favor. This is the problem that I have with some feminists.

I called scoopwhoop’s article as academic only because it strives to only understand the issue without making any judgements.

I will give another example of news spinning:
https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/kerala-hc-s-problematic-view-common-elders-abuse-youngsters-125649

See, how the same news is reported differently in this:
https://lawstreet.co/judiciary/wife-husband-mother-cruelty-keralahc

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Anu Warrier

June 7, 2020

‘What if I had a choice? A backup, whom even if I don’t use, can still be a deterrent to my husband’s abusive behavior.
I do a lot of work with abused women. Their ‘backup’ is not another man. It is education, financial independence, a job. None of these women have another man as a backup plan. Their backup plan is domestic violence shelters like ours, and counsellors who can help them pick up the courage to end the cycle.

And excuse me, my relationship with my sister is hardly maternal!

Also, I don’t need to have your sample ‘three year age difference’ to accept that women are /can be as flawed as men. I simply don’t understand what the co-relation is between accepting simple logic (People are / can be flawed – irrespective of gender.) and the age between same-sex siblings!

The person’s profile photo shows a WHITE guy. So, I first ask him to mention his RACE..

Why? You already know his race. No? Or at least, you know enough to know he’s not African-American.

And how does that analogy even hold good? Race and the age-difference between siblings?

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Isai

June 8, 2020

I rewatched VTV and my heart skipped a beat when I saw the word Joseph in the nameplate of their house. It reminded me of Reena Joseph from Minnale.

Many other things are similar to that movie: hero being blown away at first sight, heroine working in a MNC and traveling in the company vehicle, her saying ‘Pasangaloda avalava pazhaginathe illa…Neethaan first’, meeting in a petrol bunk, proposing love near a water body, her other guy coming from USA West Coast, church wedding etc. Also, Kitty, Reema Sen’s father in Minnale, is Simbu’s father in VTV. Coincidence? I don’t think so.

Further, when Trisha asks Simbu to describe how he felt about her, he replies ‘Mudhal Padam varum..adhula solraen’ Why would a guy who has not made a movie yet, use the word ‘Mudhal’?.. In Minnale, Madhavan describes his feelings to his grandad in a phone call. Similarly, when Trisha asks Simbu how he got her phone number, it again seems a callback to Minnale.

I think this is GVM’s most personal movie yet. Here, even the hero’s caste is mentioned, that too without any good reason (I guess that is GVM’s mother’s caste).

There are similarities with GVM’s other movies too, like the heroine being a maths graduate (KK), meeting post breakup in a park bench and asking about her successor (NEPT) etc.

Many other scenes look very realistic, like when the film making profession is being looked down upon, phone ringing in sets etc. Even places where Karthik goes to eat in Kerala seems more like being reproduced from memory than from imagination/availability.

I think it is scenes like these, that are there but are not essential to the plot, that makes the character more ‘real’ and not just a mere vehicle for the plot.

That is why I am not able to see this as a love story. It looked more like GVM was expressing his anguish about the girl who had left him and consoling himself that she was not a good fit for him. For, in the movie, Jessie never asks anything about Karthik – his feelings or even how his day was. Of course, no woman ever came home from a date complaining that all she did, was talk about herself. But here, in the ENTIRE movie, it is always about HER apprehensions, she feeling HER life is getting monotonous, what Ganesh will think about HER etc. The scenes where she asks or does something for HIM in the movie, after their introduction – she asks his college name, on whether he completed his graduation, invites him to her Kerala house and motivates him to make his movie – were all done so that it will help HER to convince her family about him.

It seems GVM is saying through the movie – “Jessie, you were so SELF-ABSORBED and I was just loving you BLINDLY. While you kept mentioning about how YOU didn’t want to face pain/problems, you never made me realise that I will also be devastated post the breakup.” That is why in the movie within the movie – FOR THE FIRST TIME, Jessie is seen asking Karthik about HIS career – movies, HIS family, HIS feelings, HIS new girlfriend.

It is very impressive to see a director make a movie to resolve his unpleasant feelings that had occurred due to trauma (GVM talks about his first-love breakup in his other interviews). I am so excited for part 2!

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Isai

June 8, 2020

“It is education, financial independence, a job.”
I was talking about Indian women. IMO, it is very difficult here for a poor woman with an abusive husband and young kids to even aspire for these.
“None of these women have another man as a backup plan.”
I was not talking about any ‘planning’.
I used the words ‘like to have’ ie ‘wishing’. If I was in the shoes of these miserable women (DAWN article below), I would wish that I have a backup. And I won’t give a rat’s ass to what anybody’s judgemental opinion is.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1560199

See, lots of women may like to have a backup. Lots of women, like you, may NOT like to have any backup. BOTH of these statements can be SIMULTANEOUSLY true. Now, if you feel that NO woman would EVER want to have a ‘backup’, well you are entitled to your opinion, and SO AM I.

“And excuse me, my relationship with my sister is hardly maternal!”
I used the words ‘TENDS TO..’. This is a mathematical term like when x tends to Infinity, y tends to 0 etc. I don’t have the patience to explain it here. I will only say that I was talking about women having sisters younger than their daughters, which is not exactly applicable to you, so pls. ignore.

“.. accepting simple logic (People are / can be flawed – irrespective of gender.)”
Of course most women would accept the above statement. But, in MY experience, anytime I mention any flaw about any woman/women, SOME women immediately perceive it as an attempt to ‘suppress the cause of the oppressed women’ and start throwing a hissy fit as a defense mechanism. In MY experience, women with close age sisters didn’t. That’s all.

“I’ve squabbled with my brothers; I don’t remember ever squabbling with my sister.”
It is not in my place to suggest that you resolve your feelings towards your brothers. But, please ponder about what I had written earlier: “..I found that they tend to take it a lot more personally and their pent-up frustration towards their brothers or other men in their lives, gets misdirected towards me.”

“Why? You already know his race. No?”
See, I mostly know. But, if I state it, then he may LIE that he is actually a black man who just used a white man’s photo since he fears that he will be discriminated online. Or he may simply RUN AWAY from the thread. So, how do we get HIM to accept it through HIS OWN words?
I will choose to mislead him by writing that ‘Asians like him can’t be trusted’ which will tempt/compel him to reply that I am so wrong and he is actually Caucasian.

“And how does that analogy even hold good? Race and the age-difference between siblings?”

Doesn’t it ring a bell?
Why do you think I chose to unnecessarily make an assumption about your BROTHER when my theory is about SISTERS?
That’s how the analogy holds good.

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Anu Warrier

June 8, 2020

“I’ve squabbled with my brothers; I don’t remember ever squabbling with my sister.”
It is not in my place to suggest that you resolve your feelings towards your brothers. But, please ponder about what I had written earlier: “..I found that they tend to take it a lot more personally and their pent-up frustration towards their brothers or other men in their lives, gets misdirected towards me.”

Man! I have no ‘unresolved’ feelings towards my brothers. We squabbled as children, not as adults. And no, it’s not my ‘pent-up frustration towards my brothers’ that’s being ‘misdirected towards you’.

Any of my statements made here were ‘directed’ at your argument.

Why do you think I chose to unnecessarily make an assumption about your BROTHER when my theory is about SISTERS?

I thought we were having a discussion. Not playing ‘Gotcha!’

Anyway, since multiple women have come on to give you their experiences, hopefully you will rethink what your small sample size has told you about women so far….

Have a good day.

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Isai

June 8, 2020

“I thought we were having a discussion.”

I have told you umpteen times that I AM NOT INTERESTED in having ANY discussion with YOU, FOREVER.

All that I ask you is: Please DISMISS my opinions and kindly IGNORE ME.

Hoping this is really the LAST time that I am saying this to you: GOODBYE!

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Anu Warrier

June 9, 2020

If you don’t mind, can you kindly tell what is the birth order of you and your siblings and the age difference between each of you? (I guess there is a brother between you and your sister). Maybe my theories are wrong. Your answer will perhaps help me refine/discard such views.

And

Can you tell which of my views are very old fashioned and kindly provide a link to historical books where it was discussed?

This was you. To me. Which is why I thought it was a discussion. My apologies.

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Isai

June 11, 2020

“Jessie didn’t leave Karthik for Roy..”

I didn’t say THAT.
I didn’t speak about the ENDING of their relationship. I was talking about the BEGINNING:

Karthik proposes to Jessie who expresses her apprehensions about her family. Karthik makes his decision and still wants to start a relationship. Now, Jessie has to make her decision. Just like how Karthik went to Ganesh, if Jessie had come to me after meeting Karthik in Kerala, this is what I would have told her:

For the sake of brevity, I’ll make some assumptions below –
There are 2 choices for her – Scenario A – Start a relationship with Karthik. Scenario B – Don’t start anything with Karthik and later go for an arranged marriage.

In Scenario A, Jessie will be happy….till her parents find out. Then that road will branch into 3 further scenarios – A1 – Convice her parents and marry Karthik. A2 – Parents not convinced, Elope. A3 – Parents not convinced, leave Karthik and go for an arranged marriage. A1 is a happy scenario for Jessie while A2 and A3 are sad scenarios.

Now, if we consider this as some sort of decision tree, what would really help is if we can assign a probability for each of these 3 scenarios and put a magnitude for Jessie’s happiness/sadness in each of these scenarios. Then, we can do a summation and ask Jessie to go for the relationship if the net-sum is positive.

But, the problem is, it is very difficult to realistically assign these probabilities and magnitudes. Jessie thinks that probability of scenario A1 is very less and let us assume that the probability of scenario A2 is close to zero, since her dad means a lot to her. But, look at scenario A3. No doubt there would sadness initially. But, the magnitude of sadness there will mostly be equal to the magnitude of happiness felt while in love. Then, scenario A3 is same as scenario B, where Jessie goes for an arranged marriage. So, if Jessie goes for the relationship, she will try to end up in the happy scenario A1 or she will still end up in Scenario A3 which is same as Scenario B (Assuming that Jessie won’t prefer to go for scenario A2). This alone suggests that Jessie should go for the relationship since atleast she won’t be worse off.

But, if Jessie is still hesitant due to the sadness/messiness involved in A3, I would tell her that not only is A3 same as B but in fact A3 is better than B. Because, the arranged marriage would lead to two further scenarios – either happy or sad (say separation). But, in A3-sad, there is a chance that she can still get back with Karthik who may still be pining for her. This chance is much lower in scenario B. Again, I am not saying that Jessie should continue to be in touch with Karthik after marriage and I am not sure how wise it is. Also, I am not saying that she should/would go back to Karthik, but having that option is better than not having that option. So, as shown above, starting the relationship with Karthik is a much better choice for Jessie IRRESPECTIVE of what happens later. IMHO, there is NO MORAL TURPITUDE in thinking like this. In MY moral universe, starting a relationship with the other person thinking that you are the ‘ONE’ and you knowing that you will leave later is WRONG.

Leaving a healthy, loving relationship ONLY because you can get someone ‘better’ is WRONG. (As they say, Karma is a boomerang).

But, deciding to start the relationship and hoping to get to scenario A1 while also knowing that A3 is still better than B…to see SO FAR AHEAD, IMHO is only an example of impressive DECISION MAKING. As I said, I don’t see anything morally wrong here.

“I doubt she’d require the safety net of a “Backup”.”

I am not saying she requires one. I am not saying she wants one. I am not even saying she would go back to one, even if he is available. But, IMO, having one is better than not having one. As said above A3 > B.

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Varsha Ganesh

June 11, 2020

Isai – Considering you are a man, let me ask you this – In your heavily introspected opinion and decision trees, do men want or like or think having ‘back-ups’ is better too? Or are back-ups for women alone?

I ask cause from your arguments, it seems like men are off living their lives, building their careers, and what not, unburdened by the back-up scenario but women are worried about the one thing they are always supposed to be worrying about – the status of their relationships. It’s not just your argument, it’s also the media. I doubt all the articles you referenced did such a ‘rigorous’ analysis of men too. It just seems like another flavor of ‘pure love’ and ‘machan ava ena vitutu poita’ narrative that keeps being peddled over and over again, slyly vilifying women who dare to have any agency and glorifying men yet again.

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sai16vicky

June 12, 2020

In MY moral universe, starting a relationship with the other person thinking that you are the ‘ONE’ and you knowing that you will leave later is WRONG.

I am not sure how old you are but most of our emotional decisions aren’t necessarily rational (and they don’t fit into a black-white universe). Speaking personally, I did go out with someone (pretty much) like Jessie and eventually, she did leave me. Sometimes, I do end up thinking what made her leave and/or if there was something I could have done to save the relationship (trust me, I was probably the mad lover that Karthik was). But I also see Jessie’s POV — she possibly thought “maybe” it would work out and/or she just wanted to give Karthik a shot. It’s a plausibility that she didn’t know she would leave later. As you can see, these are fairly emotional decisions and in hindsight, one could say this is morally right/wrong but not when you’re falling so hard for someone.

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Isai

August 23, 2020

“As you can see, these are fairly emotional decisions and in hindsight, one could say this is morally right/wrong but not when you’re falling so hard for someone.”

I was thinking about a very different scenario when I wrote that comment. I was born and brought up in Chennai but went to different cities in India and in abroad for higher education and employment. But, I always knew that I ultimately wanted to settle down in Chennai with a woman who wanted the same and who at least spoke Tamil very well even if she is not ethnically Tamil. This was always non-negotiable for me and people of my personality type often have such clear preferences/conditions which must be met even before they get interested in someone. (In Minnale, there is a scene where Reema Sen says ‘Madras maadiri varumaa’ and then Madhavan starts thinking ‘hey, this may work out!’).

That is why I said “you KNOWING that you will leave later is wrong”. It was said from my perspective and may not be applicable for someone like Jessie for whom parental opposition was the main concern or for other people who may not have such clear pre-set conditions.

But, I have realised that sometimes it is really nobody’s fault and destiny puts people in situations where they have to experience pain. I’ll share some of my observations as a small case study: Three women W1, W2, W3 were smitten by a guy A who was not interested in any of them and who rudely rejected their advances. W1 kept pursuing him only to realise that A was not going to change and after months of pursuit, she stopped and ultimately settled down with a guy G1.
W2 and W3 were deeply disappointed that the guy whom they thought they were destined to be with, didn’t even seem interested in them. So, at that time, when they were feeling quite vulnerable, they were unknowingly wooed by guys G2 and G3 respectively with whom they got into relationships with. After an year, W2 realised that her heart doesn’t really beat for G2 the same way it beat for A and that she may have started the relationship during a period of emotional instability. Since A was soon moving to a different city, she broke her relationship with G2 and again desperately tried to woo A only to get the same response as before. G2 was then heartbroken and used to be awfully quiet. They again got back together sometime later but they ultimately broke up. Meanwhile, G3 was with W3, whose eyes still used to glow whenever she saw/spoke to A, till he left. I used to observe all this and wonder whose fault it is. G2 and G3 were very nice guys and I used to feel sorry for them. I didn’t think they did anything wrong in wooing and loving W2/W3. I didn’t find anything wrong in A’s behavior too since he only exercised his agency in rejecting people whom he was not interested in. So, I thought W2, W3 were at fault and used to feel cynical about their idea of love and wondered if they treated G2, G3 as just backups.

In Arjun Reddy’s closing dream scene, Arjun talks to Preeti about him looking like her dad. Around that time only I realised that W2’s dad and A used to look a lot similar. Also, W2 was also a middle child, just like Preeti. Now, I think W2 had some daddy issues and that was the reason she was particularly seeking validation from A, who resembled her dad in both looks and behaviour. I wonder if W1 and W3 were also interested in A for the same reason. (With this hindsight, I feel I was wrong in judging those women since I myself was never in such a situation.)

Now, if this is true, then it turns out that none of these people were at fault and if anyone has to be blamed, it has to be the father of W2 etc. Sometimes, absent fathers lead to daughters seeking validation from other men and thus ending up in relationships with someone whom they may not really be compatible with. They even tend to become possessive in their relationships with men, children etc. since they didn’t have a wholesome relationship with their father. Now, if one goes back and looks at their father’s history, sometimes one can see that even he had some issues while growing up and that along with other circumstances lead to him becoming an absent father.

What I have realised from all this is that all of us are destined to suffer some pain in life due to one reason or another. It could be due to daddy/mommy/sibling issues, poverty, caste/religious or other forms of discrimination, misunderstandings, failed relationships, career/marital issues, untimely death/disability of a loved one etc. What I have observed from my own life is that it is such pain that has actually helped me reflect on life and grow as a person. So, instead of dwelling on the past and feeling sad/guilty about such painful experiences, I feel it is better to accept these experiences as part of our destiny. With such an attitude, I think one can stop holding grudges towards people who we perceive to have caused us this pain and instead consider them as people whom God put in our lives to help us mature and become the person we were destined to be. I have just started developing this attitude of feeling grateful towards people who have given me experiences/memories whether good or bad and have actually started feeling much better about myself.

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Interview: Gautham Vasudev Menon (on Karthik Dial Seydha Yenn)

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