(by Madan Mohan)
The day I signed up for the Film Companion Front Row discussion with A R Rahman, I formulated the question I wanted to ask him. When the discussion started, I was maybe the second guy to punch in my question in the chatbox. But the numbers were against me from the get go. With easily over two hundred participants, the questions too poured in by the hundreds. A few of these questions were squeezed into the last ten minutes of the discussion. I hoped mine would be one of those but it wasn’t to be.
What I wanted to ask Rahman was this: how in 1992 did he have the conviction, the self belief to chart his own path and defy conventional wisdom? How did he fend off detractors, of which there would surely have been many?
For all that Rahman is a pan India phenomenon (and there was even a European – maybe more – who had signed up for the Front Row program), Tamil listeners in particular have better understood the import of what he achieved from the get-go. Because for us, he wasn’t the guy who came after Laxmikant Pyarelal’s Raam Lakhan or Nadeem Shravan’s Aashiqui. He was the man who stole Ilayaraja’s thunder. And THAT’S a whole other ballgame.
Irrespective of where you stand on this topic, what is indisputable is most other composers working in the early 90s slavishly imitated Raja’s sound. And they delivered hits with it too. Shankar Ganesh scored a good one with Idhaya Thamarai, MM Kreem with Azhagan and Deva with Mr Madras. So yes, it was possible to score hits but your hits would frequently be mistaken for Raja songs. So you were at best discount Raja. And you had to be happy with that. Oh, Anand Milind were terribly happy with that, by the way.
But Rahman didn’t succeed merely by improving the production several notches or by scoring peppy uptempo songs that the youth would like. He brought a different ‘point of view’, a different theory of film music, as it were, to the table. And he is the last one to date who has been able to do so. There have been others since who have scored beautiful songs but nobody who has put together a whole style of music that asserts a definitive perspective on melody, harmony and rhythm. A great musician, particularly a great composer, usually has a point of view about music, whether or not they choose to articulate it in that way. There is a reason why you can identify a Fiona Apple song from the first few keystrokes of her piano.
Rahman partly answered this question himself in his deep dive with singer Arijit. He said that MSV and Ilayaraja had covered so much territory that he had to study Hindustani raags and identify variations – I paraphrase here and badly – that would NOT remind you of their songs. He made this point in the Front Row discussion too.
That addresses, to an extent, the melody aspect of it. But there’s also the chords he uses which are nothing like Ilayaraja. The moods, the pacing are all different. Just as Ilayaraja brought to the table a complete and comprehensive vocabulary of music that would bear his unmistakable signature, so too Rahman forged a path that was nothing like his predecessor. And it wasn’t only nothing like his predecessor. It was nothing like any film music before his time. In the tennis world, we talk about pre and post 2001, the year in which Wimbledon was slowed down, killing serve and volley for good pretty much. On similar lines, you can divide film music into pre and post Rahman.
Yes, I KNOW, Raja’s harmonic vocabulary is way ahead of anyone else so it isn’t like anybody before his time either. I am a dyed in wool Raja fan, don’t worry about me. But the essential sound of Raja’s music was still the film music sound. He chose not to veer too far from that sound and made his subversions subtle. Rahman in contrast decided to boldly announce the fact that he was different.
And that, again, was the question I had wanted to pose to him. How did he know he could dare to be so different and yet succeed? Or did he not know and did he decide to just roll the dice anyway? Is there a counter history where in the unlikely event of the Roja soundtrack flopping, Rahman decides to follow the lead of industry seniors who gleefully pounce on the opportunity to say, “I told you so”? Or would he have packed his bags and headed to Berklee?
But maybe…there really are no answers to such questions. I noticed that when Rahman was asked deep questions about his process, his answers were vague. He didn’t want to be pinned down. Artists hate being pinned down because they feel knowing their own process too well will get in the way of their creativity.
And so, had I asked him how he did it, he might have simply shrugged and smiled. Yes, I am happy to report that even in an unscripted setting, Rahman is the same soft spoken, smiling self you have seen in interviews. Yeah, really. There aren’t too many around in tinseltown who wear their greatness that lightly. That being the case, he is hardly going to bother trying to find out how he got so great.
brangan
March 22, 2021
Thanks for this lovely post, Madan.
The only thing that I felt like commenting on was your trying to “justify” you were a Raja fan, too — because I have done this a LOT as well.
It’s almost as if we want people to think we are “neutral” musical listeners.
I mean, if I wrote that MSV’s melody-making was fantastic, I would would feel compelled to add something from Raja’s side — say that Raja’s melodies COULD NOT be that free-flowing simply because they were ‘locked into’ the chords and arrangements around them.
But now, I am at that stage where I feel this is no longer necessary 🙂
People ARE going to pre-decide your “taste”.
So I will happily say that there is a pre-and-post MSV, a pre-and-post Raja, a pre-Rahman and nothing much of a “post” yet in terms of a totally redefined musical ethos.
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Madan
March 22, 2021
BR: Thanks! You’re right that if the fanatics wanna descend, they will anyway. But I just put it out there to not make it too controversial. Like, if I am saying Rahman was groundbreaking, doesn’t imply that Raja was not. It is only in TFM world that these are regarded as mutually exclusive arguments.
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Aman Basha
March 22, 2021
More than Rahman’s music and style, which has been written about and analyzed in far greater terms than anything a layman like me can explain, I’d be way more interested in knowing about the singers ARR introduced and mentored. The dazzling array of artists he’s introduced and mentored is rather unique for any film composer, who mostly stick with one team. Although Raaja has far greater contribution in terms of pure music, it’s in this aspect that ARR makes a just as important contribution IMHO.
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YAML92
March 22, 2021
Amazing write up, Madan!
I have thought this too – especially with albums like Thiruda Thiruda : How did AR Rahman all of age 25-26 then, only in the second year of his career manage to not be bogged down by the status quo, think out of the box and dare to conjure up something so wild that only one can dream of!
Something all of us can apply in our own respective fields!
And I think he kinda answered it in the interview – Mani Ratnam’s mentorship. We have celebrated ARR’s music in MR’s movies but this is something important too – the role of Mani Ratnam in ARR’s career – not just introducing him but also giving him the confidence and supporting him to think beyond Raja.
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Alex John
March 22, 2021
The mention of Anand-Milind tickled my bones. I am curious if they took Raja’s permission before they used his tunes (at least parts of them). If they didn’t, it quite surprises me that Raja didn’t react to them the way he did to the stage singers who sing his songs.
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Gargi Mehra
March 22, 2021
I think the answer to the process question might also have to do with the fact that artists don’t really know their process. Its likely more intuitive for people like ARR who have a genuine natural talent. Also I don’t think he knew he could dare to be different, he just…dared. He had a creative vision and wanted to share it with an audience that was listening, and craving for more from him.
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Heisenberg
March 22, 2021
No doubt Rahman’s approach to film music was unlike anything we had heard before in Indian films. But end of the day music is music – he came up with new sound but still sticking to basic structure of a song that sounded very sweet (or peppy) to the ears. There’s no way soundtrack like Roja would have panned by audience even though they had not heard anything like that before.
I am more curious of his film choices from early days – why he mostly scored for big productions only from the beginning and rarely scored for small movies.
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shaviswa
March 22, 2021
@Alex John
I remember reading an interview of Raja during the days when Anand-Milind blatantly lifted his songs. When questioned if he is not worried about such theft, Raja nonchalantly remarked “Illathavanga, eduthukkaraanga”. 😀
I think he realized the value of copyrights much later in this life – when he saw how Rahman controlled it for his songs. ARR refused a Shah Rukh Khan movie as the makers refused to give him his rights on the film’s songs and music. ARR chose to walk out of the project.
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Enigma
March 22, 2021
@Madan, thanks for the post. I had always wondered how Rahman had come up with those completely new sounds back then.
@Alex John, I don’t think Anand – Milind took Raja’s permission. What they did was good old pinching. I remember I was fuming when these two clowns appeared on a show (remember super hit muqabla back in the early 90s) and claimed that they created the Raakamma tune. Bunch of thieving bastards. Another tune from Beta (Dhak dhak) is also Raja’s. This was the pre internet/social media era. They got away with it.
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thesaintponders
March 22, 2021
I think one more reason that AR Rahman’s music is so earwarming and gets a different point of view than his predecessors has to also do with the sound engineer Mr. H. Sridhar whom he worked with during his initial years. In this very interesting interview with Ms. Shanti Omkar, you will see what makes an AR song an AR song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dvHwJBqr1k
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Jallikattu lover
March 22, 2021
The kind of projects ARR is working on now makes facepalm.
I don’t know if he is to blame for the lack of musical excitement or the current crop of directors for not offering him something challenging.
Sarkar, Mersal, and Bigil and the upcoming Cobra and Ayalaan are not ARR projects.. ARR is not a mass composer, he is a class composer, world class to be precise. ARR films need a classy or a visionary director at its helm like a Gautham or Shankar.
To make matters worse, Shankar is working with Anirudh for Indian 2, which is not at all up his alley ( He has struck gold with his massy songs, has not demonstrated any sense of melody on the lines of the intro to Kappal Yeari Poyachu or its equivalent BGM ) and the Ram Charan project to ARR, when it should be the othey way.
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moonraker
March 22, 2021
I wanted to register for this actually, but eventually could not make it due to other commitments. Anyway, I hardly expect he would have even noticed my questions. But mainly, my questions are:
1) How does he feel that his music, unique as it is, and even enjoyable to a certain section of listeners, has never acquired the kind of mass appeal that the work of his peers/seniors in the South and North did? Because let’s be honest, even at its best, Rahman’s music has never traveled beyond the cities. Not once in my lifetime, have I heard a Rahman song playing in barbers’ shops, roadside tea stalls etc. When it comes to album sales, there are others ahead of him in the South and North. In the digital era, it’s worse – Youtube views, streams etc, his music is mostly nowhere to be found.
2) At least his music once was lapped up by the urban youth, and for his very best tunes, even by some older listeners. Post Oscars, even that is not true. In Tamil, it’s harder to pin down the exact turning point, but in Hindi, that would be Blue.
To me, his music once sounded extremely global, and extremely Indian, at the same time, if that makes sense. As Richard Corliss, is his review of Roja as one of the top 10 soundtracks of all time in Time magazine said “…astonishing debut work parades Rahman’s gift for alchemizing outside influences until they are totally Tamil, totally Rahman”. Post 2009-ish, his music, bar a few exceptions, sounds mostly global, very little Indian, and therefore very generic when compared to global artists’ work. Songs like Adiye, Rehnuma to name a few. And this is more apparent in Hindi than Tamil. Work you respect, but never sing. Admire, but never love.
So my question is, why doesn’t he keep in mind his target audience when composing? Is it always about connecting with one’s own inner self?
3) He has, as someone rightly mentioned earlier, introduced a lot of singers. But, and this is really true for the male voices, most of these singers have hardly gone on to become legends in their own right. The Naresh Iyers, Rashid Alis and God knows how many more have come, sung for him and a few others for 3-4 years, and gone.
Right from Roja, it was clear, he placed more emphasis on interesting timbre than proper pronunciation of words, just to make his songs ‘sound’ fresh. Udit Narayan in Tamil is a classic example, as well as Sid Sriram in Ennodu Nee Irundhaal.
So what does he have to say about all these largely failed proteges (Sriram is not one of them, to be clear) of his? Does it highlight a basic problem of how he judges singers for his songs?
4) Lyrics. It is sad that despite being in the industry (both South and North) for so many years, he still doesn’t understand the importance of good lyrics. Especially in Hindi, where the listeners are conservative in their music tastes and prefer good lyrics and simple tunes over razzle-dazzle experimentation, the lyrics in his work, bar the great songs, range from strictly functional to downright laughable (Telephone dhun Mein). In the early days, this was understandable, being a newcomer to the culture and all, but even in 99 Songs in 2020, the lyrics in his work disappoint. I would not be surprised if Navneet Virk, another of his discoveries and the lyricist of 99, disappears after a few years like the singers.
Why does he have such contempt for lyrics?
I am sorry for sounding so critical, but this fan-boyism over him by the media, especially post Oscars, has, in my opinion, contributed to his relative downfall from the early days. Classic case of emperor’s new clothes syndrome.
A fan.
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Madan
March 22, 2021
Thanks everyone for the comments.
Aman Basha: From the discussion, I got the impression that Rahman is the sort of composer who if he just saw somebody’s clip on youtube and liked it a lot, he would ask them to come and sing for his next. His post production process is very deliberate but he follows his instincts a lot in his initial composing and creation of the song. He doesn’t necessarily compose with a singer in mind, which again is a big difference from previous composers including Raja with whom you could clearly tell some songs were written for SPB and some for KJ.
YAML92: Yes, I think Mani’s encouragement and nurturing was definitely a big factor. Rahman was fortunate that way to get to work with somebody who would be more open minded about his choices. But it’s also Shankar and even a veteran like Bharatiraja. Even with all his public carping about Rahman comparing him to fast food, Bharatiraja did give him a free hand in Karuthamma.
Gargi Mehra: “He had a creative vision and wanted to share it with an audience that was listening, and craving for more from him.” – Brilliantly put.
Heisenberg: I agree except that the first songs Rahman showed to Mani were the ones that made it to Thiruda Thiruda and it really should have got a release ahead of Roja, which it didn’t. That he was ready to unleash Thiruda Thiruda as his first album says a lot. And that Mani too, having heard those demos, took him on board. Some things are just meant to be.
Alex John: Yes, as shaviswa put it, Raja didn’t pay much attention to copyright in those years. He was too busy composing to care. I guess when the assignments began to dry up and he had time to start counting the cash, he didn’t like what he saw. And the blowback thereon was strong. Production Chitra Lakshmanan claims he had warned Raja that Subramani of Echo Records was swindling him of royalties. He claims he got Lahari on board for Chinnapadas leading to much acrimony with the recording. I am leaving the links here:
thesaintponders: H Sridhar definitely played a huge role. But consider here that the level of sampling of instrument sounds Rahman managed in 1992 was already world class. Sampling at that level was relatively new even in the Western world. So in one fell swoop, Rahman closed the ages old gap in technical values between ‘us’ and ‘them’. This too was part of the question I had for him. Where from did he stumble on all this know how and then how did he shut out the many ‘wise men’ who would have told him he would go nowhere without a big studio like Prasad Studios? This is part of why I try to get specific. Sound recording/engineering is a catch all term. It happens after the composer has conceived the music. At the conception stage itself, Rahman was doing something that hadn’t been done before, ever, in India. It was brand new and the music sounded like it.
Jallikattu lover: That brings up an interesting tangent. I have always felt Raja inadvertently got his revenge on Rahman through the Chiyaan Chiyaan kuthu song in Sethu. Previously Raja’s kuthu songs always used tabla/dholak. This was the first time he unleashed electric drums on it. He barely did any kuthu songs again but Vidyasagar, Mani Sharma, Bharadwaj, HJ all ran with it. That combined with the action adi dhadhi trend of Vijay/Ajith movies starting with the noughties suddenly changed the entire scenario. It’s no wonder that Rahman’s had dwindling returns in Tamil since then and has moved more and more to Hindi and even to Hollywood. Because the whole class/urban yuppie tone of the 90s was simply gone. And even to the extent it remained, HJ and Yuvan came to be preferred for such films. People began to go to Rahman more because they WANTED a Rahman soundtrack for their film (much as a smaller number of them want Raja for their film). It wasn’t necessarily an imperative decision commercially any more.
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YAML92
March 23, 2021
@Jallikattu lover I agree – his choice of certain movies in the last few years has been underwhelming. In fact, had he not done the 3 Vijay movies, his aura would have stayed undiminished. Now it has extended to Cobra (Thumbi Thullal was nice though) and Ayaalan (Vera Level Sago on the other hand made me forget this ever happened).
With all the rise in negativity on social media, it’s just sad to see fans of a certain star or two asking ARR to compose “better”(read mass) BGM for their star.
I think music for these mass movies are become definitely a young man’s game and ppl like Anirudh should just do such movies.
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YAML92
March 23, 2021
Another question I wanted to ask is if he can articulate the specific choices behind changing his compositional style every decade or so.. especially in the last 10 years, we have seen the biggest departure from his 90s style : a lot of the songs have sparse intstrumentation and no structured melody with the verses just going along in a seemingly random manner but they all seem to gel well together! (Like Phir Se Udd Chala, Dir Dara Gafatan, Bhoomi Bhoomi, Muafi Mushkil, Thalli Pogathey etc)
But then again, just as Madan pointed out, we will probably get a vague reply from him!
Another note : I noticed ARR giving a vague answer to one of BR’s question but props to BR for prodding on and getting a proper reply! 😀
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YAML92
March 23, 2021
Dil Gira Dafatan *
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vijay
March 23, 2021
with regard to Rahman (as well as few other bigwigs), the answers are never quite as interesting as the questions 🙂
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Madan
March 23, 2021
moonraker: Very interesting post. I disagree with some points and agree with some so let me address one by one:
1) If you’re using barbershops as a proxy for small town taste, I would disagree with the notion that Rahman never had mass appeal. In the 90s, I lived in Kalyan which is 50 km away from the heart of Mumbai and a far cry in terms of values (that is, Kalyan is way more conservative and parochial compared to say SoBo, Bandra or Juhu). Until about 97-98, Rahman was all over, man, especially Bombay, Rangeela and Dil Se soundtracks. I don’t think he quite achieved that level of popularity with any other soundtrack again barring maybe Taal but that applies to his Tamil work too. So that addresses your last point too. Oscar means nothing. I (and other longtime fans) knew even at the time he got the award that in terms of capturing the pulse of the audience on a pan India scale, Rahman wasn’t what he used to be in the 90s. Rather, audience tastes changed and their and Rahman’s journeys didn’t converge as much as they did in the 90s. Generally, a great music director has had a 10 max 15 year run at the very top where they score mass hits on a sustained basis. In saying so, I am not counting composers who worked more intermittently and achieved blockbuster success less frequently too – like Naushad or SDB. RD lost out to Bappida nonsense in the 80s. So what could Rahman realistically have done anyway. I don’t think it reflects badly on him that his post Oscar work has at times been tepid by his standards. That is only to be expected. He is too great to make bad stuff; composers like him or Raja are failsafe to a large extent so they can still score hits once in a while like Taare Ginn/Unna Nenachu (Psycho) respectively. But the game is bound to move on to somebody else. It always does.
2) I agree that the Indian sound of his music has been replaced by a more ‘international’ sound in the last decade. I think this dovetails with his ambition of taking Indian music to the world. Frankly, this started way back with Lagaan. Songs like Chale Chalo sound more like a Westerner observing Indian culture with a gee, so quaint lens. The colourful and earthy tapestry of Kehna Hi Kya was long gone. But then, why blame him alone for this. Our movies too have gotten more ‘global’ except Tamil mass movies (which have a tone that doesn’t suit him much, as I mentioned upthread). Raja too has received more acclaim for his BSO experiments and less for his rural based work. It’s more a reflection of our tastes.
3) Big agree on the way he uses singers. To begin with, it was a welcome change from the set-gang approach of other composers. You could have a whole cornucopia of singers on a Rahman album and you couldn’t tell who WOULD debut on the next album. But at some point, it’s become an end in itself, like giving singers a chance for the sake of trying someone new (and not necessarily because there was something there). OK, that’s unfair, I think Rahman DID believe in someone like Naresh Iyer but Naresh Iyer and other such singers didn’t actualize on the potential he saw in them. Take someone like Poorvi Koutish. I watched her Indian Idol run back in 2012 and was excited by her potential. Somehow, she was quite underwhelming on Jwalamukhi. OTOH I had never heard of Shashaa Tirupathi before but she knocked Soja Soja out of the park. There’s an element of chance when you experiment with new singers. I think what has changed is he had the roster of great, well trained (formally or naturally) singers like SPB, SJ, Mano, Swarnalatha, Chitra, Hariharan, etc supporting these experiments with beautifully rendered melodies. That ‘bulwark’ is gone now. Because Arijit supposedly fills in for that slot but let’s not beat around the bush with this – he is underwhelming more often than not for all that he does have the chops and CAN at times be wonderful.
4)Now, about lyrics. “Especially in Hindi, where the listeners are conservative in their music tastes and prefer good lyrics and simple tunes” – I am skeptical about this observation. I wonder if this reflects your tastes in Hindi or your impression (from the outside) of what Hindi listeners like. In the 90s, such stellar lyrics like Main toh bhelpuri kha rahi thi or Gori Aa churana mera jiya reigned supreme. In the 90s, especially in Govinda movies, Hindi plumbed the depths of vulgar double meaning. Now what about post 90s? Certainly they have a more clean sound now but where’s the simplicity? Let’s take a beautiful song like Moh Moh ke Daage. Neither the tune is simple nor are the lyrics if you would compare to say Ae Kash Ke Hum or Akele Hain Toh Kya Gham Hai. I don’t know if anybody post Majrooh really can do that simple but meaningful shtick well. And again, tastes change. I doubt Majrooh doing his stuff today would work so well. Listeners have had their fill of it and moved on. The current flavour is of more semi-classical, ornamented tunes with similarly ornamented lyrics. Rahman has worked with Mehboob, Gulzar, Irshad Kamil, etc. I don’t think he is standing in the way of good lyrics and it’s more that what lyrics people like has changed.
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Madan
March 23, 2021
“Another note : I noticed ARR giving a vague answer to one of BR’s question but props to BR for prodding on and getting a proper reply! ” – Ha! Yeah, I remember that one too.
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Eswar
March 24, 2021
Nice one, Madan. 🙏
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Anonymous Violin
March 24, 2021
@Moonraker:
I’m a bit puzzled by your lyrics complaint, at least from a Tamil perspective.
Right from 1992, Rahman has worked with the likes of Vairamuthu and Vaali, who’ve proven themselves capable lyricists time and again (harassment notwithstanding).
Of course, you have your Muqabla/Telephone Manipol and other songs with nonsense lyrics.
But for every one of these, I’d wager there are several Pachai Nirame/Poovuklul Olinthirukkum/etc. with pretty nice lyrics.
Post 2010, I would probably agree that lyrical quality has dropped.
Side note:
Anyone have any thoughts about the National Award for Best Music for Viswasam?
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therag
March 24, 2021
I think I made this point in a Readers Write In (also by Madan?). ARR is doing all these Vijay/Sivakarthikeyan films purely to maximise his audience. Popular Tamil cinema today does not have much of a role for songs other than as filler or an intro song for the hero. ARR is aware of that and wisely made use of the platform provided by the stars to reach as many Zoomers as possible. I agree with this strategy, ARR is obviously not in his prime and cannot produce at the same level that he used to. Better save your good stuff for deserving projects.
Hindi jumped off the song bandwagon a few years earlier than Tamil which explains the drying up of projects for him there. I think it is pretty obvious that he is trying to get Indian light music/film music onto its own platform before the film industry completely relegates it to a corner.
Maajja, Enjoy Enjaami, 99 Songs all point in this direction. ARR will probably not turn up for anyone other than MR/Shankar/Imitiaz unless the script is absolute gangbusters.
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Heisenberg
March 24, 2021
//Anyone have any thoughts about the National Award for Best Music for Viswasam?//
I am really shocked ‘Viswasam’ getting award for its songs. I mean wasn’t there any other better album last year in the whole of India?
Personally I feel when they split music award into 2 categories – 1 for songs and 1 for bgm (which ilaiyaraaja totally disliked and said its like giving award for doing half the job) – they could have very well gone the oscar way. Best original song rather than best album as these days albums as a whole are hardly noteworthy. Moreover most songs are released as singles one by one and I find it hard to even keep track of how many songs are there in a new album.
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Madan
March 24, 2021
“. ARR is aware of that and wisely made use of the platform provided by the stars to reach as many Zoomers as possible. ” – Basically, he needs to be ‘there’ to be relevant. Raja did a version of this in the late 90s too, adapting his style for the then chocolate boy Vijay films. Those were the films people remember from that period – Kadhalukku Mariyathai/Kannukul Nilavu/Friends – not movies like Poonthottam or Kakkai Siraginilae where he did better work (even Time, come to think of). Then too, the complaint was the music on these films was rather forgettable but he wasn’t getting any other A List projects.
“ARR will probably not turn up for anyone other than MR/Shankar/Imitiaz unless the script is absolute gangbusters.” – Rather than the script, I think he is looking more at the potential of a script to accommodate songs. There’s no other reason why he would have done Dil Bechara. It was alright as a film, not as well made as the original English one and had only SSR as the one recognized name. Remember this was all wrapped up before SSR’s suicide created a lot of interest in his last film. ARR gave one of his best Hindi songs in a long, long time – Taare Ginn – to that film.
In general, more than the quality of films (which if anything is often better than in the 90s or 00s), it is the fact that today’s films don’t give much room for songs that hurts music directors. Their role is becoming increasingly like that of Hollywood composers – just score the BGM and be going.
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shaviswa
March 24, 2021
Agree with Madan. There is absolutely no scope for good music in films these days. It is a travesty but also a sign of times.
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RP
March 25, 2021
I wish people can stop comparing IR with ARR or anyone else. Yes ARR brought in a new trend in film songs and displaced IR as the leading maker of hit songs during that period . But please IR in my opinion is way beyond commercially hit songs and number 1 status and all that. He is on his own island without any peer. So lets just not bring him in whenever we are talking about ARR or anyone else. I know people will say it is subjective and everyone has their own opinion on who is greatest and all that, but there should not be any doubt whatsoever on IR’s status in film music(not talking about just songs here) scene as a whole. There is no one close period. So lets keep him out of the conversation here please.
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Madan
March 25, 2021
“I wish people can stop comparing IR with ARR or anyone else.” – But nobody compared. 😀 If I or somebody else draws parallels or remarks upon certain similarities, it doesn’t make it a comparison.
“but there should not be any doubt whatsoever on IR’s status in film music(not talking about just songs here) scene as a whole” – Unfortunately, if you go THERE, then IR is no match for ARR’s pan India appeal. If you’re going to climb up the objectivity pedestal, at least keep your ambitions in check. If you say Tamil/Telugu, you can at least argue about number of films being so, so many more than ARR.
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MANK
March 25, 2021
Nice post Madan, too bad your question didn’t make it
I just wonder about one thing you said, regarding ARR elevating movies with his music and a different POV. I’m not denying that
But Does you (or anybody) believe that there’s that one ARR score that transformed a truly underwhelming film into a megahit. Like Karagattakkaran or even Chinna Thambi, (or a lot of movies which i cant even remember now) was by IR’s music
Or Aashique and Dewaana was by Nadeem Shravan’s music
The success of Roja, Gentleman, Kadhalan etc. owed a lot to ARR’s music but the films were good in their own right. I don’t know a film like Kadhalar dinam could be called a superhit. Maybe Subhash Ghai’s Taal could be a contender. While his extraordinary scores for Dil Se or Rockstar didn’t make them box office hits, at least in India it didn’t.
Maybe it was a reflection of changing times also.
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Madan
March 25, 2021
Thanks MANK.
“But Does you (or anybody) believe that there’s that one ARR score that transformed a truly underwhelming film into a megahit.” – In the 90s, yes, I can think of a few. Maybe not truly underwhelming (but then I wouldn’t call a film like Chinna Thambi truly underwhelming, just predictable, usual usual kind of film). But certainly these were films that would be regarded as pretty average at best without Rahman’s soundtrack – Kadhalan, May Madham, Kadhal Desam. I tried watching Kadhalan recently and couldn’t. Now I see you have mentioned Kadhalan as a good film in its own right so we disagree then. Actually even Rahman’s background score in that film is super tacky with that yoooo sound effect. Thankfully, his songs didn’t age in that way.
I would call Gentleman or Indian pretty average too but the Shankar gimmick worked at the time and it was something different fwiw so I will let those films pass. But I do think in both cases, again, the music significantly elevated the film…say, beyond the level to which HJ’s soundtrack for Anniyan enhanced it. Because in both films, Rahman came up with songs that transcended the film and the context of those scenes themselves.
I also don’t know whether I can really hold it against Rahman for not ‘passing’ the making-a-turd-a-megahit test. Because unlike other music directors of his time, he wasn’t taking on bucketloads of films. So maybe he gauged well whether the film would be a good vehicle for his music and then committed to it. I don’t blame him for it either because he gave beautiful songs for Sangamam and it didn’t do well at the BO (Raguman was a perennial bad luck mascot at the time). The songs were hits, undeniably so. But that wasn’t enough to save the film (which wasn’t too bad though a very predictable affair).
I guess Rahman was selective like Naushad or S D Burman. In their cases too, we can’t think of too many turds they polished to an extent where the turd became a hit. They committed to films they liked working on, were comfortable working on and then gave their best. As opposed to CR or SJ (whose model Raja followed) or even RDB to some extent.
Lastly, I just want to clarify that I didn’t intend to convey the meaning that Rahman’s music elevated the movies. I was doing an analysis completely independent of an overall cinema perspective and just about the music. So I am simply saying Rahman brought a complete package that was distinct from not just Raja but all of Rahman’s predecessors and that great artists tend to have their own point of view about what makes music great. They are not saying ONLY their way is great; rather, that this can also be great but nobody else has tried it in exactly that way. That’s why their work stands out. If I contrast with Amit Trivedi, he has composed songs I really like from time to time but he also tends to get invisible and blend with the surroundings, making songs I could confuse with somebody else. So Rahman for me was/is the last such music director in at least Hindi and Tamil who put together a whole paradigm of his own in the way that Naushad, RDB, MSV, Raja all did in their eras. Whether it’s because today’s composers are not as talented (can’t say for sure and would be judgmental) or simply because today’s films don’t allow composers to be as ambitious as Rahman could afford to be, nobody is able to quite reinvent the wheel anymore.
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Guru
March 25, 2021
@MANK I think Kadhalan and Jeans were superhits only because of its music. There are others too which pretty much worked for its music such as Pudhiya Mugam, Kadhal Desam, Jodi etc..
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shaviswa
March 25, 2021
@MANK
Duet
May Madham
Indira
Rangeela
Love Birds
Kadhal Desam
Ratchagan
Jeans
En Swasa Katre
Sangamam
Taal
Taj Mahal
Parthale Paravasam
Boys
Enakku 20 Unakku 18
Kangalal Kaidhu Sei
New
Sillunu Oru Kadhal
Sakkarakatti
Raavanan
Kadal
There are so many such movies which were watchable only because of Rahman’s music. In fact you remember most of these films only for their songs.
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shaviswa
March 25, 2021
@RP
I am a big fan of Ilaiyaraja. But I am also a big fan of Rahman. They have both been phenomenal in their own way and I will never put Raja on a pedestal in front of Rahman and a few others like MSV-TKR, SD Burman, RD Burman, Shankar-Jaikishan, Naushad, etc. Each has been a legend in his/their own way IMO.
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Aman Basha
March 25, 2021
@MANK: Arguably most of Prabhu Deva’s films (with Shankar, Kajol, Nagma off the top of my head) were hits solely because of Rahman’s music and Prabhu Deva’s dance, it isn’t a coincidence that his biggest hits were all ARR musicals. Even the movie with Tabu and Abbas or the one with Sonali Bendre were hits solely on their music. The best example is Jeans. It’s hard imagining that movie being a hit without its music.
Post 90s. I’d say with technology, music and song videos became less of a driving factor to theatres, there hasn’t been a musical hit in a long, long time.
One question I’d love to ask Rahman was how tf did he come up with something like the Style song in a Rajni film? It’s the sort of song that one wouldn’t even hear in a Western pop album, and to place it in a mainstream big budget Tamil mass film is just pure ARR.
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RP
March 26, 2021
Madan, I am not talking about Pan Indian appeal or anything of that kind. My point was IR is at a different level when it comes to music and his contributions there . I am not here trying to compare hit songs or number of films in each language for each composer. Let me put it out there, IR and MSV are in my opinion are like two large mountains of film music. Others i would classify as hills which came up on the side very attractive and appealing in their own way. But none can reach the heights of those two mountains. Thats all. I just don’t see ARR being at the same level of those two giants. Its just my opinion. Infact i consider from the point of talent Santosh and Anirudh on par with ARR and even better in the Background score department,. Given these times where tastes are so diverse and audience hooked on to so many forms of music, They have still managed to captivate with interesting music.
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Madan
March 26, 2021
shaviswa: I do unabashedly put Raja on a pedestal OTOH. My mobile phone playlist doesn’t lie. After I discovered and got deeper and deeper into Western music, the only IFM that gets regularly played during my commutes is Raja. And this is not a knock on Rahman or the many great Hindi composers I am a fan of. I just ‘had my fill’ of their music but I haven’t, yet, of Raja and maybe I won’t for years more to come.
But I am also fully aware that all of this is my opinion. So if somebody likewise wants to put Rahman or MSV on a pedestal above Raja, that’s their choice. There is no right or wrong in this. It is indeed subjective though RP seems to dislike the upshot of that. Raja writes red hot grooves, somehow accommodates Bach counterpoint in them and frequently writes Carnatic based melodies to these arrangements (or sets these arrangements for the melodies, really). Rahman writes beautiful, flowing melodies with sympathetic chords and innovative rhythmic patterns (as well as percussion sounds). MSV wrote even more beautiful melodies with not much of a harmonic arrangement at all and a strong focus on meter to enable the great Kannadasan to write immortal lyrics for these songs. It is a CHOICE to elevate one above the other and the choice reflects what we like in our music, not necessarily where one composer stands w.r.t the other.
Now…if the choice is between Raja and Chandra Bose or Rahman and HJ, I would unhesitatingly choose Raja/Rahman respectively and not brook much of a subjectivity argument. I cannot think of a reason why you would like HJ more than Rahman unless you have basically not explored Rahman’s work. HJ is discount Rahman as CB was discount Raja (and some touches of MSV also maybe). But with MSV-Raja-Rahman, the very ‘point of view’ of music is different so how to compare in the first place. Same as I wouldn’t really compare Naushad and S D Burman though I know who I like more (marginally). They are different trips end of the day.
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Madan
March 26, 2021
RP: Well ok, but in that case, I want to point out, again, that you have started the comparison business in this thread. Nobody else was. And nobody else is getting into it. Sorry. You can believe whatever you want to about Anirudh v/s Rahman. That itself speaks volumes, if I may.
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Madan
March 26, 2021
Aman Basha/shaviswa: Just wanted to point out that Kadhalar Dhinam, Sangamam, Parthale Paravasam were not hits. Yes, the music elevated the movies a long way but MANK was asking about movies that became HITS because of the music and that doesn’t apply to these cases.
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Anonymous Violin
March 26, 2021
Can someone who was around in the 80s and 90s please explain something to me?
How was the availability of recording media in the 80s compared to the 90s? From my understanding, it seems like in the 90s, it was pretty easy to buy a cassette if you wanted a movie’s songs, but in the 80s it was less accessible. Ergo, Rahman would be less able to pull an audience to a movie just to listen to his music. Does that make sense?
Also @shaviswa:
You can add Acham Yenbathu Madamaiyada to that list. Another film I was bamboozled into watching because of the Rahman soundtrack.
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shaviswa
March 26, 2021
“Thats all. I just don’t see ARR being at the same level of those two giants. Its just my opinion. Infact i consider from the point of talent Santosh and Anirudh on par with ARR and even better in the Background score department,. ”
Wow! Never realised that Rahman’s stocks have dipped so badly in the world of Tamil cinema!!!
We should thank Vijay and Sivakarthikeyan for bringing ARR down to this level.
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vijay
March 26, 2021
Anirudh has’nt done shit in TFM. But for his family connections, he would have been long forgotten Let’s him leave him out of any serious musical discussions. I wouldnt even put him on par with D Imman, leave alone Rahman
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Madan
March 26, 2021
Anonymous Violin – Not an 80s kid though technically from that decade. But yeah, this is what I have heard from people who grew up in that decade or were adults then. People majorly listened only on the radio and the radio wouldn’t be able to play all of Raja’s songs. So they would go to the theater to hear all the songs. In 90s I would guess more cheap 2 in 1s as they were called became available. And cassettes were really cheap. So one guy bought the original cassette and shared it with friends who would copy the tape using that wonder called high speed dubbing.
And by mid 90s with the advent of lots of private channels, you no longer HAD to go to the theater to see the movie. The alternative wasn’t DD but catching it on Sun TV a few months later. I never saw films like Jeans or Kadhal Desam in theater, just on TV. But we did have the original cassette of these ARR albums – Gentleman, Kadhalan, Bombay, Kadhal Desam, Minsara Kanavu and Sangamam. And we lived in Mumbai or rather a place as far away from Mumbai as Chengalpattu is from Chennai and maybe comparable to Tambaram in terms of development. So I would say most of his albums were successful in the 90s. His hit rate at that time was just phenomenal. Even the lesser albums like Uzhavan had songs like Pennala Pennala. He then worked himself to death in 2000 and after that neither the hit rate nor the productivity were ever the same again. But again, 2000 itself was another terrific year for him.
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shaviswa
March 26, 2021
@Anonymous Violin
You are spot on. We went to see Payanangal Mudivathillai a couple of times just to listen to the songs. Those were the days when we did not even have a cassette player at home. It was either listening to radio or spend money to go to the theaters and listen to the songs. Raja made it worth it by ensuring almost every song in the film is worth the money spent. There were so many movies during that period which ran just for his songs (Ilamai kalangal is another such film. In fact most Mic Mohan films would fall into that category).
Rahman was lucky that he burst into the scene after the economy opened up. After we heard Roja songs played on TV (Oliyum oliyum), I bought a cassette and was surprised to see that the cassette was from Magnasound – not the. Echo or T-Series or any of those poor quality products. And I could play that on my Philips music system at home (with big speakers and all). Listening to Rahman at home was a totally different experience and it meant that we did not have to go to the cinema halls to listen to the songs.
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theeversriram
March 27, 2021
Except for Rangeela, New, Sillunu oru kadhal and Kadhal Desam to some extent, all others were failures or very average grossers at best.
On the other hand, average movies which would have turned successful if songs were good have also been turned into commerical failures due to ARR music (Bigil, Sarkar, CVV, etc)
Duet
May Madham
Indira
Rangeela
Love Birds
Kadhal Desam
Ratchagan
Jeans
En Swasa Katre
Sangamam
Taal
Taj Mahal
Parthale Paravasam
Boys
Enakku 20 Unakku 18
Kangalal Kaidhu Sei
New
Sillunu Oru Kadhal
Sakkarakatti
Raavanan
Kadal
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Madan
March 28, 2021
Wait what, Taal was a huge BO success. Jeans wasn’t average either nor was Boys. Yes, Duet was average and Indira was basically a flop. But again, Bigil, Sarkar and CCV did well at the BO. I don’t like Rahman’s work in any of those films but blaming him for the films not doing even more biz somehow seems disingenuous. There’s a director, actors and an audience too. The music director can’t single handedly propel a film over and above all these limitations. Raja didn’t, not all the time, anyway. MMKR is a cult comedy TODAY but did average business in its time. Is that Raja’s fault? Don’t think so.
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theeversriram
March 29, 2021
Yep my bad, Taal and Jeans did well agreed. Boys in Tamil no and Bigil & Sarkar as well as other films in the list were not financially profitable.
Point is there are many below average Rajini/Kamal/Karthik, etc movies that become hits due to good Ilayaraja songs wereas in ARR’s case such examples are really limited.
MMKR yes agreed but Raja did good work in it. But in ARR case he didn’t give the expected output for many recent time movies and hence is one of the reason for the film’s failure.
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Madan
March 29, 2021
theeversriram: That way, it would be possible to argue Kadhal Kavithai or Friends would have done better business with a better soundtrack from Raja. Especially KK… the gap between the background score and the songs is enormous. So, again, this is something that just happens. Nobody can deliver great songs in each and every film.
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Ravi K
March 30, 2021
How much buzz is there around film songs in TN these days? Could the currently popular music directors be considered stars the way ARR or IR were in their heyday? Does, say, Anirudh, have a huge fan following? I don’t live in India, so I’m out of touch with the ground reality there.
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Madan
March 31, 2021
Ravi K: I am using the easiest way to answer this question as I don’t live in Chennai.
On Twitter, Anirudh has 8 million followers as opposed to 700k for Harris Jeyaraj or 400k for Santosh Narayan. In fact, Anirudh’s followership compares well with that of his partner-in-crime on Kolaveri – Dhanush (who has 9.7 mn followers). So, yes, Anirudh IS a star. Maybe not quite on the level of IR or Rahman but in today’s environment, it might be tough for THEM to attain a star-level following in the way Anirudh has. I mean, we are long past the music-speaks-for-itself phase and Anirudh does play the social media game way better than his predecessors.
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YAML92
March 31, 2021
@RaviK : I think Anirudh does have a pretty huge fan following, especially with Gen-Z. With his incredible massy score for albums like Master – there’s an increase in fan following for him. I would say it’s likewise for Santhosh Narayanan although a bit lower.
Reg the buzz around film songs in TN – it depends. I think songs in Vijay/Ajith/Dhanush/Surya movies become popular no matter their quality and if they are actually good, then they just become crazy viral. How much is actually due to the music and how much is due to the star power, one can’t tell.
But going by Enjoy Enjaami, an independent single getting 75M+ views in 3 weeks – I think TN audience will still appreciate good music – what has changed is the definition of what qualifies as good music – nowadays the trend seem to go towards fast paced, peppy pop songs and not so much on melody.
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shaviswa
April 1, 2021
@YAML92
No wonder I find it so difficult to listen to Tamil film music these days. I listen to more Telugu songs these days (they are still churning out some melodies every now and then) and into Carnatic music. I am just unable to listen to the cacophony that is coming out of the stables of Anirudh and others.
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YAML92
April 2, 2021
@shaviswa : Although I wish we go back to … I wouldn’t agree what Anirudh/Santhosh produce nowadays is cacophony.
I think when 30 years back when ARR debuted, similar things were said in both Kollywood/Bollywood – that this is not real music/computer stuff etc… and likewise, this generation of listeners who grew up with ARR/Raja are finding it tough to accept the music Anirudh & co produce. 20 years later, I think we will find the present Gen-Z claiming that this era’s songs were just better.
We are slowly inching towards how Hollywood makes movies now – soon there’ll be time when “5 song albums”/duets/songs shot in foreign locations will be things of the past and there will be a need for just background score with probably 1 single released for marketing reasons. We see that already happening in some manner – ex. in Lokesh Kanagaraj’s movies – his first two didn’t really have songs and Master mainly had “songs” in the background.
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Madan
April 2, 2021
“I think when 30 years back when ARR debuted, similar things were said in both Kollywood/Bollywood – that this is not real music/computer stuff etc… and likewise, this generation of listeners who grew up with ARR/Raja are finding it tough to accept the music Anirudh & co produce.” – This is an interesting tangent in itself. The same sort of conversation happens about English/Western pop and rock. So what’s at work here? I think it’s simply that (a) music is increasingly driven by grooves and (b) digital gives more ability to the sound engineer to record the music louder. There was a ceiling in analog over how loudly you could record the music because beyond a point it would just sound noisy and distorted. Digital removed that ceiling. Fortunately, the possibilities of this weren’t fully realized in the 90s but from the 00s the loudness wars began in full earnest.
I can barely listen to music produced in that way like Taylor Swift. OTOH I love Tyler’s Igor album. The latter is hip hop. It’s closer to Anirudh in terms of musical genres but in terms of production it’s more like a vintage Raja album. I don’t have the ability to endure music recorded that loudly (like Swift/Anirudh). This is a very subtle point because, again, I can listen to extreme metal which is inherently very heavy but is not necessarily always recorded in a very loud way. My view is when you push the loudness beyond a point, you can no longer feel the contours, the ebbs and flows of the music. Now whether you should, whether you want to know is a subjective question because there is no right or wrong about this. It’s the same as how as every pop singer today imitates Amy Winehouse’s extremely staccato delivery and then they carry it forward when they cover a singer with a lot of legato like Jeff Buckley. In the words of DJT, it is what it is.
I grew up in a time when it was held that regardless of genre, a music recording should emphasise the silences as much as the crescendos and when singing was meant to have flow. I realize that when confronted with music that doesn’t adhere to these tenets, it makes me sound very close minded even with all the different genres of music I have experienced and love. Everybody has a wall, end of the day. It’s not at all like I am consciously comparing the loudness levels and deciding, “oh, I am not supposed to listen to this”. More like I involuntarily recoil and once I do that, I can’t get past that reaction no matter how much I try.
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Anonymous Violin
April 2, 2021
A nice demonstration of the loudness war and associated problems:
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Madan
April 2, 2021
“All the punch of the drums is gone and along with some of the feel of the music that comes from some parts being louder than others”
and
“when there’s no quiet, there can be loud”
Brilliantly put.
You can hear the difference when you compare Rahman’s older recordings with more recent ones…and that’s even though his recordings are plenty sympathetic by Taylor Swift standards.
Kannum Kannum Kollaiyadithal:
Aila aila ai:
You don’t feel any change in the dynamic level at the 0:35 mark where there should be when the beats change. And the operatic bit at 1:00 isn’t making me pull back in my chair as I should. It should be hitting me hard because the music is actually surging beautifully there.
A similar moment in Strawberry Kanne at 1:09, how much the music surges before dropping, you don’t need the music to come to a dead stop to feel the momentum shifts:
Speaking of dynamics, I love the song Brother Sister of Brand New Heavies for that quality. Serious punch on the drums at 2:32, it sets up a wonderful call response with the vocals:
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Ravi K
April 2, 2021
I wonder if ARR’s sound mixers and mastering engineers after H. Sridhar’s death were the ones who ushered in a more dynamically compressed sound in his albums. The last albums Sridhar worked on were “Ghajini,” “Jodhaa Akbar” (both 2008), and “Slumdog Millionaire” (2009). But I do remember thinking “Jaane Tu Ya Jaane Na” (2008) sounded dynamically compressed. Perhaps ARR wanted a more punchy sound for a youth-oriented album. I haven’t tracked where that sound started, so it’s just a hunch.
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Madan
April 3, 2021
“But I do remember thinking “Jaane Tu Ya Jaane Na” (2008) sounded dynamically compressed. Perhaps ARR wanted a more punchy sound for a youth-oriented album. ” – Yes, it was and probably for the reason you mentioned. It was the market demand and maybe ARR would have had to go in that direction even had Sridhar lived and worked with him for a few more years. Loudness as an issue in recordings had begun to seep in in the noughties and by mid noughties, you could see our film music trending that way as well. This is the title track of OSO. Pretty compressed sound:
More so, as the video Anonymous Violin posted shows, the issue is loudness of everything rather than compression itself. A digital recording CAN be more dynamic than an analog one. When you compare the tinny 8 track 80s Raja recordings with an NEPV, you can clearly tell the latter has a much fuller sound with much more dynamic range. But engineers are more enamoured of the potential to jack up the volume all the way. That is, a compressed recording from the 80s would not have been so loud, so would have still captured the contrast between the drum fills and vocal layers better
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Kumar
April 5, 2021
“ …Deva with Mr Madras” – Mr. Madras music director is Vidyasagar
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moonraker
April 5, 2021
@Madan: A bit late here, but thanks for your detailed reply, and also, many thanks for your original post, which I forgot to acknowledge the first time around.
I am a 28 year-old living in Kolkata with close family in Chennai. Whatever I wrote about ARR’s mass appeal is truly based on my own observation, which again is influenced by my memory. So I don’t have a clear recollection of the first 5 years of his career, and will take your word for it that he was a rage among the masses. When I think very hard, I realize once I heard a shopkeeper in the local fish market humming Muqabla, and Chaiyya Chaiyya seemed to very popular among the middle-class neutral fans. That’s about it. My Chennai-based folks tell me the ‘lowest-common denominator’, if you will, there listen to IR more.
Since you mentioned Rangeela, I suddenly realized that is a great ARR soundtrack which has very few takers today on digital platforms. Contrast this with how many listeners the Nadeem-Shravan stuff of that period has today, and I think it is fair to say that at least in Hindi, the real king of the 90s were NS.
About the 10-15 years span, maybe, but didn’t Laxmikant-Pyarelal rule longer than that? Dosti was in 1965, and Khalnayak in 1993. And even considering how diminished film music today is, we can’t forget Pritam, who to me (and I am not really a fan of his work) seems to be the real genius of Hindi music these last 20 years, in terms of mass hits on a sustained basis. So maybe ARR doesn’t seem such a giant in Indian film music, after all, if his peak as a mass composer was 5 years.
I stand corrected on the lyrics point. I agree I went overboard there. My apologies to you and @Anonymous Violin.
On my comments about Hindi film music in general, I am going by the gold standard today, which is the Pritam-Arijit-Irshad or Pritam-Arijit-Amitabh combinations. Now, I love Channa Mereya, Haanikaarak Bapu (not Arijit, I know) as compositions too, and in general they are very emotively sung, and well written, but to a musical ignoramus like me, the compositions do not seem to me to be great compared to the classics of Hindi or Tamil music. I am in the minority here, but I found Shayad as a composition nothing THAT great, and ditto for many others of their work.
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moonraker
April 5, 2021
@Madan You brought up Moh Moh ke Dhaage, and it reminded me of Anu Malik. Here is a video of him being interviewed by Faridoon Shahryar.
I am no fan of Malik’s music or even the way he talks, but I think his irritation here at the plagiarism question is justified. He has copied many songs, true, but why would you start the interview by asking THAT as the very first question, especially after Moh Moh was so good, both musically and commercially? Would Shahryar have dared to ask ARR why, post-Rockstar in Hindi, he has delivered something like 2 hit songs (not albums) in 10 years?
It is this difference in treatment by the media of different people that I was talking about originally – the emperor’s-new-clothes syndrome on one hand, and the downright condescending attitude on the other.
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Madan
April 5, 2021
@moonraker: Thanks for the acknowledgment. But it’s alright, it’s the internet, there are no rules that way, hehe.
If you’re 28, that means you were born AFTER Roja was released. Now I will give you a parallel example. I was born long, long after MGR or Sivaji’s peaks. I respect but am not a huge fan of either their work as actors – there, I said it – or of MSV whether solo or with TKR. But does that mean they didn’t enjoy long reigns of mass popularity? Obviously not. We can’t go by only what we have experienced first hand if some of the achievements referenced happened before our time.
Additionally, I cannot speak for your experience in Kolkata but I would argue the popularity of Rahman’s music in Bombay in the 90s was a better reflection of his pan India appeal because in that period, Bombay was still the cultural tastemaker for a large chunk of India.
“. Contrast this with how many listeners the Nadeem-Shravan stuff of that period has today” – But those Nadeem Shravan films (assuming you’re speaking of Ashiqui or Dil Hai Ke Manta Nahin) were super duper hits at the BO. Rangeela wasn’t. None of the mass market films in the 90s went to Rahman. That’s not his fault. As always, Bollywood had made its own camps so the Khans and other stars all worked again and again with NS/Jatin Lalit/ Anu Malik. Rangeela was RGV. Bombay/Dil Se was Mani Ratnam. What do they have in common? Yeah. In spite of this, Chaiya Chaiya has 56 mn views on youtube which compares favourably with the Ashiqui songs. So get this: Rahman cracked open the Hindi market mostly by providing music to Mani’s films dubbed into Hindi. A few Shankar films too enjoyed success, more for Prabhudeva and Kamal as applicable (Kadhalan and Indian). I am sure that privately the Bollywood establishment hated this, but they couldn’t do anything about it (and this is not my conjecture, Rahman alluded to these camps dissuading new directors from working with him in an interview last year). It was comparable to SS Rajamouli singlehandedly owning Bollywood with Baahubali.
“About the 10-15 years span, maybe, but didn’t Laxmikant-Pyarelal rule longer than that? Dosti was in 1965, and Khalnayak in 1993. ” – But it would be a rule if they enjoyed an uninterrupted reign for that entire period. They got a bunch of successful films post Dosti but they were nowhere near no.1. Shankar Jaikishan were. And after Aradhana, it was both Burmans hunting as a pair. LP only began to hit the big time in the late 70s with Manmohan Desai films. And afterwards too, through the 80s, it was a three-four way race between them, Kalyanji Anandji, Rajesh Roshan and Bappi Lahri.
Unlike Tamil, Hindi never had this concept of undisputed no.1. Closest were SJ for a period in the mid-late 60s and RDB in the early 70s coming up to maybe Aapki Kasam. To draw an analogy to my 12th standard economics textbook, Hindi in 50s and 60s was perfect competition and from 80s onwards was oligopoly. It is perfect competition again but in a buyer’s market so the music directors have no power and churn out a crap commodity instead of timeless classics. Now to come back to Rahman, Taare Ginn was a hit last year and so were the songs of Roja back in 1992. So if you only measure ‘reign’ in terms of ability to deliver hits, Rahman’s reign has been more than long enough.
Regarding Faridoon and Anu Malik, I don’t think the question is unfair as pertains to Anu Malik because for one Moh Moh Ke Daage, he has done a hundred Mai Mila Tu Milis. Now as for Rahman, well, if I take Tamasha, I see that Agar Tum Saath Ho has 239 mn views and Matargashti 66mn. So are these not hits then? Even Mohenjo Daro has hits though I have never heard them. But that is not a good yardstick anymore (going back to the first hand experience thing).
In the 90s, I had no way of avoiding Nadeem Shravan/Anu Malik songs and sorry if that offends you but I was most definitely not a fan of them even at that time. But shopkeepers would constantly play Pardesi Jaana Nahi from Raja Hindustani a million times everyday on radio or cassette decks so we were forced to listen. Now everyone listens on their earbuds so we don’t come to know which song has captured people’s imagination in a big way. The concept of a shared experience is gone.
But if I go by metrics, Rahman has still been delivering hits. So would Faridoon be justified in asking him why he is not delivering hit songs after Rockstar? I don’t think so. And I don’t think these are merely paid numbers or Rahman piggybacking on big filmmakers. 99 songs isn’t even released and Jwalamukhi has 14mn views. I didn’t much like that song. I loved Soja Soja Raat Ho Gayi which has 49k views. Clearly what I like or don’t like is not remotely a good barometer for audience taste these days.
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Madan
April 6, 2021
Kumar : Correct, I meant Kizhakku Karai. Ennakenna Piranthava from that film was a big hit.
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shaviswa
April 6, 2021
@madan. Interesting point on what makes a song a hit. youtube views can be manipulated by various techniques including viral marketing.
The olden day rule of being able to hear a song everywhere – patti thotti ellaam kekkum – no longer exists. And we also have tremendous choice on what we want to hear. Even if a song is very good, it has to fight with 1000s of other alternatives to make it to your playlist. Unlike in the 80s or 90s when it has to be on Oliyum Oliyum or Muqabala shows.
There was this film called Idhayam that had a quiet release. Nobody really knew anything about that film (non-descript hero, new heroine, new director). Then they played the April Mayilae Pasumaiyae illae song on Oliyum. We college goers immediately noticed that film and guess what the film picked up after that and had a super duper run. That was the power of good music those days.
Today the promos, teasers, lyrics video, etc etc are all available. Yet they get drowned in all the noise that exists out there.
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Madan
April 6, 2021
shaviswa: Right. A song like Rakkamma Kaiya Thattu was such a big hit even my cousin living in the US, then a schoolkid like me, came to know about it when she came to India. She was intrigued by the way the singers repeat Jangijajju ja 4 times, lol. Songs like Muqabla catapulted the film (Kadhalan) into another level of success. That doesn’t happen anymore. We don’t know, as you said, to what extent a song is a hit anymore. And even if it is, whether it necessarily helps the film to run well. Because people no longer come to the theater to ‘watch’ songs. That makes sense too because as songs have moved from exquisite choreography to bland montages, there is no particular reason to see the song in the theater. I watched Bombay in a dinghy theater in Kalyan and people clapped and sang along with Humma Humma. Like, I am talking about adults. I haven’t seen that sort of reaction to the soundtrack in a long, long time.
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vijay
April 6, 2021
Moh Moh ke daage was no great shakes. Maybe by Anu Malik’s mediocre standards it was good. Kind of like, once in a while how a hair-is-jairaj song hits the charts
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Madan
April 6, 2021
Well, this is why it’s a free world and we have different opinions.
The way I see it is: if we measure up every song against the collective weight of 40-50 years of film music, there’s almost nothing being made today that could possibly hold up against that kind of competition.
But by the same token, songs like Accha Toh Hum Chalte Hain would have never become hits had listeners then also insisted on holding it up to the musical version of ‘impossible standards of beauty’. Luckily, they/we did not have internet and youtube then to easily compile the entire back catalogue of film music and reacted to songs as they released.
Moh Moh Ke Daage has an interesting approach to Yaman; especially the first line of the antara is unusual in its approach to the raga in Hindi music. It also has interesting lyrics and soulful vocals. Don’t see a problem here. Nobody said it was the second coming of Bach.
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vijay
April 6, 2021
shaviswa, I was in college phase too during the 90s , the early part and I could relate to what you say easily. In fact I have said this many times, we miss the aspect of a song sneaking up on you and slowly become a hit and then the movie getting noticed eventually and becoming a hit too. We currently live in the era of over-hype and marketing. Was lucky to have been in the teens duing the early 90s when both IR was in form as well as Rahman was just striding in. The healthy early wars we used to have with hostelmates, miss that really. Almost every fortnight a couple of songs would hit the shelves that would excite you. Even the alternatives like Adithyan, Maragathamani were doing well at that time, not to mention Deva. Adithyan’s Amaran and its gaana/kuthu songs were a rage at that time, long before the MDs of the mid-2000s would make that genre a borefest. I think that kind of an era itself will never happen again, the single-screen mania and the musical monopolies..
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Madan
April 6, 2021
“We currently live in the era of over-hype and marketing. ” – As well, we live in an era of over-exposure and excessive multi tasking usually involving the mobile phone. This hampers our ability to immerse ourselves in an experience. To really appreciate a music album, you must allow yourself to go head-over-heels crazy over it and listen several times to it. Even with the vintage Raja albums that took no effort to like, you still discover more nuances in the songs after listening several times. But now we are in perpetual FOMO mode and don’t want to give any song (or movie) that much time. Hence the music directors too focus on delivering fast paced dance songs that they know will be hits (but which won’t have much replay value).
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Madan
April 6, 2021
I think the amount of change we have seen in the last 10 years is not yet fully appreciated.
At the end of the noughties, we still had music stores (yours truly was yet to buy his biggest CD hauls as of 2009) and book shops. Hand in hand, neither streaming nor e-reading had quite taken off just yet.
Streaming of music as well as movies or other cinematic products and ebooks have accelerated the commodification of art like never before. The very notion of coveting the physical copy of a favourite album is gone. And in a few years time, maybe the notion of attending live shows too will be seen as ‘lame’. I mean, who wastes money on that when you could just stream shows of so many artists comfortably ensconced in your couch, right? Covid is certainly not going to help as it builds the habit of staying home.
The cyclicality of these changes is almost like clockwork. Just as the early part of the 20th century saw tremendous technological changes and political upheaval (and, a once-in-a-century pandemic), so too the 2010s have already unleashed enormous change and there’s yet more to come which is likely to be even more disruptive.
Heck, the notion of having these long discussions on a blog may be rendered obsolete in a few years time, sad as that sounds.
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vijay
April 7, 2021
With IR’s best soundtracks I never needed more than one listen 95% of the time to sense something special. If something did not impress me initially chances are less that it would be impress me years later. Case in point-his post-95 soundtracks in Tamil which sound as uninspiring now as they did back then(there were some exceptions like Guru, thiruvasagam etc, where more than a couple of listens were needed to immerse fully).
With current day MDs though, most of their songs dont even warrant a second listen. They cant even compose a decent initial hook for a pallavi. The melodies are meandering and breathe their last even before the stanzas are done with
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vijay
April 7, 2021
Also, what many may have not noticed or realized is that whole sub-genres of film songs like semi-classicals, ghazals, qawwalis, folkish songs etc. have disappeared because movies that lend scope for such songs have disappeared. These days in Tamil reality shows, kids still pick songs composed 20-30 years back to showcase their mettle in final rounds.
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Madan
April 7, 2021
“With IR’s best soundtracks I never needed more than one listen 95% of the time to sense something special.” – That’s a nice thumbrule to have but I remember a number of Raja songs where I did need to be patient. Eg, I often skipped Adhikalai Nera Kanavil Unnai Parthen because of the irritating shehnai intro. And then when I actually heard the full song, I appreciated it far better. I needed a bunch of listens to start appreciating Ennathan Sugamo. Likewise Seer Kondu Va. I don’t think songs requiring to grow on you is in and of itself a bad thing. But…
“With current day MDs though, most of their songs dont even warrant a second listen. They cant even compose a decent initial hook for a pallavi.” – This is why technology is a double edged sword, something Raja himself loves to harp on. The fact simply is that if you do not have to do the gruntwork of, like, really writing music and can simply devise loops on sophisticated production software, then the entry point for new composers is lowered, which means less talented people can get in. As Ajay-Atul show, those who love music that much would still make the effort to learn from the classics and learn to write sophisticated music for an orchestra. What a pity that Tamil composers themselves don’t seem to think of that as a worthwhile pursuit, not even once in a while! I don’t even mean stuff with a hundred violins. Can they at least write something for an arrangement involving guitar, bass, piano and maybe saxophone that would be interesting? Not many can, unfortunately.
“whole sub-genres of film songs like semi-classicals, ghazals, qawwalis, folkish songs etc. have disappeared” – Yep. Though you do have the sufiyana genre in Hindi which is demanding to sing alright (though how pleasant it is, is a different question). And there’s the odd classical number like Aayat/Mohe Rang Do Lal in Bajirao Mastani. But, again, in Tamil that category has disappeared. It’s almost like a role reversal with these Ayushmann Khurana films set in more heartland like settings (even Panga and Pagglait) can be included in that category while Tamil is very much set in yuppy-land.
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Anonymous Violin
April 8, 2021
@vijay
How would you rate Imman? Both compared to his contemporaries, and maybe also with Raja/Rahman.
I’ve noticed a phenomenon with my parents, uncles/aunts, and other people of that generation (70s born). They all hold Ilayaraja as their number one, no competition. They also love a lot of Rahman’s 90s stuff. After that, however, they skip Harris, Yuvan, GVP, and go directly to… Imman as their next favorite. If Alexa isn’t playing IR/ARR hits in our house, then it’s playing Imman.
I’m wondering if you, and maybe others have experienced something similar.
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shaviswa
April 8, 2021
@Anonymous Violin
Imman has a melodic hook that is similar to Ilaiyaraja’s IMO. That may be a reason why Raja fans like Imman’s music.
BTW Harris Jeyaraj and DSP have also been a bit popular in between with the Raja fanboys. However, their popularity faded soon as they became very repetitive.
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Madan
April 8, 2021
Anonymous Violin: To the extent that I am invested in Tamil music or film music per se (which is not much ever since I got into Western from 2006 onwards), even I fit into that pattern. I actually ‘blame’ the boredom of the sheer HJ/Yuvan candyfloss on my starting to search for something different and finally getting seriously interested in Western music (having previously only heard a bunch of cassettes of a few popular artists). It’s funny when I have to thank mediocrity for getting me interested in a whole other planet of music that I may not have looked into that much had Raja and Rahman continued where they left off in the 90s.
And yes, I did like the songs of Kumki especially Sollitalae (more than Ayayo Anandhame). Notice how they sort of fit in with the work of Ajay-Atul. It’s all in the Raja-lite category and is rich in melody which works for me. I have otherwise liked a few Santosh Narayan songs here and there and that’s it.
I don’t find Rahman-lite attempts going back to Deva on Kadhal Kottai so interesting (though I do like Nalam Nalam Ariyaval). Probably because those who attempted Rahman-lite only copied the lush production and modern instrumentation of his music, not his sense of melody which is very different from Raja. That is, the soul of Rahman’s music is missing in these Rahman-lite attempts. Where Imman on Kumki or Ajay-Atul on Sairat get close to the essence of Raja, at least his more folky/symphonic stuff. Again, NOT the groovy, subversive stuff he was doing in the 80s. That has never been emulated since and, again, I am not sure how much it is appreciated to what extent these grooves drove his music in that period. He wasn’t just technically accomplished and operating at a high level melody and harmony wise; he just kicked ass, period.
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Madan
April 8, 2021
Forgot to add, I fit into that pattern despite not being from the 70s. vijay said he was in his teens when Rahman arrived. I was in school. So anywhere between 5-10 years separate us. But I still caught the last breath of Raja’s iron grip over Tamil music and how Rahman changed the scenario through 93-94. I think older millennials like me have that in common with younger X-ers – we used typewriter and tape and saw PCs move from MS Dos to Windows. Whereas someone born in 95 or after would not remember much about tape, if at all, and definitely not MS Dos.
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vijay
April 8, 2021
Anonymous, Imman seems to place emphasis on melody and does have IR influences, so it is not surprising they like him, eg.ayyayo anandhamey from Kumki which is a favourite of mine as well as kannana kannaey from Viswaasam. In fact, I dont get tunes like these from IR himself in the last 10 years. I wouldnt call him an avant garde composer, but he has come quite a long way since his foray in the mid-2000s. He seems to be getting a big film now and then and has to make the most use of it. It is a highly fragmented market now.
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Madan
April 8, 2021
“but he has come quite a long way since his foray in the mid-2000s” – Yup. I think, like much of the rest of the field, IR’s music now is about a tone and less about the melody. Some of the melodies like Unna Nenachu Nenachu ARE quite good but the emphasis is on a tone (as it was on NEPV/Megha etc). And when that emphasis is missing, we get bland soundtracks like Dhoni or the new film IR’s channel is promoting. It’s been a long, long time since we heard an Oliyilae or Unna Vida from him, let alone magnificos like Manjal Poosum (Sakkarai Devan).
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Anand Raghavan
April 12, 2021
To me, Thiruda Thiruda was the tour de force of ARR, the songs and BGM was phenomenal for what was essentially a flopped movie. Another movie which cannot be commercially measured (flop yet a great movie) was Iruvar and ARR’s BGM and the variety in genre of songs (classical to melody to pop to jazz) depicting transition of decades showcased his prowess at such an young age.
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Madan
August 1, 2021
Thought it was interesting to see the subtle influence of Ilayaraja in Rahman’s music which creeps in once in a while.
Param Sundari is in a genre (item song) that Rahman has not been super comfortable in. So what does he do? He takes some elements from a superhit Raja song in that genre but uses a contemporary arrangement so that it doesn’t sound like a pure imitation.
The song it is influenced by is Aasai Adhigam. In both songs, there is a robotic rhythm pattern in the mukda. But the pattern changes to a faster-sounding one with a ‘catch’ syncopation (don’t know how else to describe it) in the antara and the melody also goes major from minor.
Goes without saying which one I like more but it wouldn’t be a fair comparison anyway because even Aasai Adhigam is too avant/progressive whatever for where Bollywood is at currently (or should I say anything other than the Tanishk Bagchi space is verboten).
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anonymousviolin20
August 15, 2021
Madan, you might be happy to hear that my dad agrees with your assessment of the influence of Aasai Adhigam Vechu on Param Sundari.
However he does say that the song directly sounds more similar to something else (as opposed to the subtle influence of Aasai Adhigam) and for the life of me I can’t figure it out.
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Madan
August 15, 2021
anonymousviolin: Ha, thanks for the validation! I am curious to know as well what song that might be which Param Sundari directly resembles. Can’t recall anything that has that sort of direct resemblance. Maybe your dad listens to more contemporary Bollywood music than either of us?
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anonymousviolin20
September 18, 2021
Read an article today about the varying levels of classical music usage in Rahman’s songs. A great read, but something that reminded me of this post was the disclaimer he had at the beginning:
” Let me, right at the very outset, clarify that an essay on AR Rahman’s use of Indian classical music is not a commentary on Ilaiyaraaja’s use of classical music. In fact, my writing about Rahman does not, in any way, suggest that I have a preference for him over Ilaiyaraaja. This seemingly silly disclaimer is quite necessary on the interwebs. The South Indian web has collectively and furiously typed more words online defending their favourite composer than all the words that describe Indian classical music in totality. ”
That last sentence especially resonated with me.
The article:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.scroll.in/article/826004/how-ar-rahman-keeps-the-essence-of-classical-ragas-while-lending-his-own-flavour-to-his-film-songs
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Madan
September 18, 2021
Thanks for that article. Wonderfully written as I am reading.
“It’s important to understand that what we consider to be “Western music” is largely harmonic music, where melody is subservient to the larger harmonic structure of a song. In simpler terms, there is less diversity in melodic experimentation because not all combinations of notes will fit into the few easy-on-the-ears popular song formats. This is also why most pop songs tend to sound a bit alike. It’s also why genres like jazz or Western classical, which are an order of magnitude more improvisational than your typical Lady Gaga song, have historically found it more natural to jam with Indian classical musicians.” – This para, wow. Nailed it.
Of course, especially since he immediately mentioned a Pantuvarali example, I had to think of Raja’s transposition of Pantuvarali over stylish guitar licks in Rojavai Thalatum Thendral or the underrated Kangallukul Unnai Ezhuthu. I love that Raja was in fact able to retain that ethereal feeling without sacrificing groove. But I realize that’s outside the remit of the article. Unless you are talking about modern genres like hip hop or electronica, you can always find a Raja example for something and this article is about Rahman. Rahman, as Krish rightly argues, has his own approach to combining Indian melody with Western harmony, which sounds nothing like Raja. And that is an incredible achievement in its own right.
Also want to say that there have been great pop/rock songwriters who could write gorgeous melody while still unsettling you harmonically. Kate Bush’s early albums, especially songs like Moving, Wuthering Heights or Symphony In Blue, come to mind. But it only goes to bolster Krish’s argument as geniuses like Kate are rare and most Western pop/rock writing is indeed wedded to or even caged by harmony. To be very precise, just riffs and chords. It is, again, what makes Raja’s achievements so wondrous because he was NOT, contrary to popular impression, writing Mozart-esque harmony all the time and instead he was writing grooves that would fit right into 70s R&B/soul and still laying out complex Carnatic-based melody over it. Only Raja fossible.
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