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‘Spotify: Cinema with BR’ Episode 16: 40 years of Mani Ratnam
Posted on April 21, 2023
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‘Spotify: Cinema with BR’ Episode 16: 40 years of Mani Ratnam - The Times Of Bollywood →
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Baradwaj Rangan 
hari prasad
April 21, 2023
I finished rewatching Nayagan on Amazon and here you are with a podcast on Mani saar….
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Caesium
April 21, 2023
“Ulagathla evlo directors irundhum naan yen sir Maniratnam-a love pannen..”
BR’s answer to this question 😁
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Anand
April 21, 2023
Exactly,. People generally say Manis Ratnam has made different movies on terrorism (Roja, Bombay, Dil Se, Kannathil Muthamittal), while those are movies on different relationships in the background of conflicts. Iruvar is a drama between two friends who happen to attain their ambition in a symbiotic relationship that gets strained at the backdrop of politics. Anjali can also be interpreted as the relationship that apartment community has on “special” people or who they perceive to cause trouble(be it a love struck boy and girl, a mentally ill Janakaraj, a convicted ex-jailbird Prabhu and of-course retarded child Anjali) and their arc. His thoughts are interesting though he may have faltered/stumbled in execution at times. Hope PS2 give us those interesting touches amidst grand scheme of things.
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Madan
April 21, 2023
Wow, is it really 40 years since Mani Ratnam started making films? Mouna Raagam sure doesn’t feel 37 years old (though Idhaya Kovil might!). How much of this is because he was ahead of the curve and how much the world of Mani’s 80s films is a world boomers, X-ers and ‘geezer millennials’ like me lived through? I am curious about what Gen Z-ers think – do Mani’s pre-Roja films look dated to you or are they still fresh?
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madhusudhan194
April 21, 2023
“I am curious about what Gen Z-ers think – do Mani’s pre-Roja films look dated to you or are they still fresh?” –
I watched Mouna Ragam after having watched Alaipayuthey and Ok kanmani. And I wasn’t terribly impressed probably because I had seen more upgraded romantic films made by Mani.
Agni Natchaththiram is a decent watch but the Janakaraj track is just crass and unwatchable.
Nayagan still “works”. The disclaimer is not because the film hasn’t aged well but I had the same problem with Nayagan as I did with Guru. It’s just rushing from one highlight scene to another. But the moments that breathe, really work big time. I love how Mani built the relationship between Kamal and his daughter. It hasn’t aged badly at all.
I loved loved Idhayathai thirudadhey. I watched it a couple of years back on a bad YouTube print but it felt like a vacation. Brilliantly shot. Mani was probably one of the first tamil filmmakers who knew how to sustain mood. I liked this film more than Mouna Ragam or Alaipayuthey. The comedy track is worse than the Janakaraj track in Agni but I’m gonna pretend that it didn’t exist in the film.
Anjali is one of the first films I watched as a kid that broke my heart. For a long time i couldn’t figure what is it about that film that made me sad. I didn’t watch it again until recently, the ending still broke my heart. Amongst Mani’s best. The picturization of songs haven’t aged well but the writing is worth dying for.
Thalapathi is a knockout. Terrific terrific film. Probably the only pre-Roja film of Mani that feels fully contemporary. Start to finish. It had Rajinikanth’s greatest performance. Hasn’t aged a day. In my head it’s the second best film of Mani. First would be Kannathil. It had the best music from Ilayaraja, best work from Santhosh sivan, best performances from the leads and on top of that, Mani at his absolute peak.
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hari prasad
April 21, 2023
Siding with Madhusudhan’s take on Nayakan.
As years move on , yep Thalapathi would look and feel like the better movie than Nayakan if people compare them as Thalapathi was a more simple and straightforward movie , it had better songs , Santhosh Sivan’s fantastic camerawork , a Rajinikanth performance which would be a great eye-opener for today’s kids who only think Rajini as that thatha who romanced Nayanthara in Annaatthe and this would change their opinion on him.
Nayakan’s novelty of the frame inside a frame iruttu room cinematography which was at the time a never seen one would get worn off and Kamal’s performance and especially his crying would get mocked.
I didn’t have a problem with Agni Natchathiram, it was good for what it was but as I said it before , the Janagaraj comedy was tasteless and Nirosha’s ” AAAAAAAAIIII LAAAAAAVVVV UUUUUUUUU” makes me go wtf.
Mouna Ragam is still a great watch because of the Revathi character , which we won’t find in today’s movies.
Anjali is an easy watch though sometimes it would feel like the children are doing too much for their age.
Geethanjali , its been a really long time since I last watched it so idk.
Pagal Nilavu isn’t that bad but it felt like someone other than Mani Ratnam could have directed it and it would have been the same movie.
Aayutha Ezhuthu , despite its sugarcoating of youth politics would get even more love because of the hyperlink narrative and it’s screenplay that didn’t make us feel bore for even a second.
( Its not a Pre-Roja movie , still)
But Idhaya Kovil , yebba saamy!!
Kadal , Kaatru Veliyidai , CCV la kooda there were 5 to 10 good scenes to like , inga apadi 1 kooda ila , epadi dhan Ilayaraja idhuku romba nalla paatta pottaro.
Great dhan avaru.
If someone asks me which terrible movie had the best soundtrack ever , my pick would be this for sure.
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Madan
April 21, 2023
Re best albums for terrible films, well, other Mike Mohan films, namely Payanangal Mudivathilai and Naan Paadum Paadal, would compete. Also Vaidehi Karthirunthal. At least Amman Koil Kizhakaale was not bad for that genre. And I haven’t watched Ninaivellam Nithya but the picturization screams mediocre for me (CV Sridhar to boot!). Anand is another wonderful film wasted on a terrible film.
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vsrini
April 22, 2023
I showed my sister (who’s significantly younger and a Gen Z kid) both Nayagan & Thalapathi and she liked the latter far more, just like Hari Prasad & Madhusudhan.
” Nirosha’s ” AAAAAAAAIIII LAAAAAAVVVV UUUUUUUUU” ”
HAHAHA I think this type of heroine scene was (sadly) pretty common among movies in that time period. Definitely cringe to the max though.
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Madan
April 22, 2023
Great insights madhusudhan194, hariprasad, vsrini.
@vsrini: “HAHAHA I think this type of heroine scene was (sadly) pretty common among movies in that time period” – Yup, this is what I was trying to understand. How much of something having not aged so badly to my eyes is just because I am conditioned to what the entertainment of my growing up years looked like.
hariprasad: Interesting what you said about Revathi’s character and in fact, fully formed and quite independent female characters seem to have been more common in the big films of back then. This could also just be down to the fact that there was more space for drama in a big budget vehicle while now it’s almost exclusively star-driven action. Every big film is adiradhi vyazhan now, with a rare breather like PS-1.
I think we find common ground on Anjali. Again, a kind of film that would necessarily have to be much smaller to get made today (and it wasn’t a success in its time either). But it was very heartfelt and the things Mani got to do with the child actors probably helped ensure the film didn’t sag in places (unlike say Mouna Ragam). The movie also helped Raghuvaran get a few nalla-anna roles at a time when he was already getting slotted as villain (albeit he did play villain really, really well).
Yup, I don’t like Kamal’s crying scene in Nayagan; for some reason, he struggles with it. The most convincing essay of it he managed was in AS and more because the scene allowed him to fuse grief with anger at the world at large.
I dislike the forced comedy track in Agni too but in every other respect, still think it’s the most fun he had making a film.
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vsrini
April 22, 2023
@Madan:
“How much of something having not aged so badly to my eyes is just because I am conditioned to what the entertainment of my growing up years looked like.”
Madan, this is a really interesting topic of discussion. I remember BR (in a Medai video) defending certain scenes in older movies where the hero ‘follows’ the heroine as ‘benign stalking’ (that it was just the culture back then). It was something I didn’t/don’t understand until I realised that the entertainment I had grown up with had conditioned me very differently (stalking attempts depicted in 2000s movies, by a Simbu or Dhanush etc., felt so vicious that I was just put off by the entire endeavour). So it might be a conditioning of both entertainment & the culture we grow up in (with a chicken-egg relationship between the two of course).
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anonymousviolin20
April 22, 2023
@Madan:
The films I’ve seen of Mani pre Roja are Mouna Raagam, Thalapathi, and Agni Natchathiram.
Surprisingly, I still enjoyed Mouna Raagam despite the fact that it was not targeted towards my generation (OKK supremacy!). The central issue does seem a bit dated today, but keeping the time period in mind, it makes sense. Also helps that Divya is a well written character and that I’m a bit of a Revathi fanboy lol.
Agni was also a fun watch. As everyone else has said, the comedy track is awful, and I genuinely can’t believe that Mani included it in an otherwise great film. I think the film also has this “retro cool” kinda appeal. I saw Karthik in the Raja Rajadhi song, and I just thought “damn he looks so cool”. Only problem was my mom watched it with me, and she couldn’t help but recite each of the dialogues of one of her favorite films 5 seconds before they appeared on screen lol.
Thalapthi is a great film. Enough said lol.
Ironically, I feel like Roja itself is the one that feels most dated. I don’t think I finished it once.
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therag
April 25, 2023
I always find it funny that Nayakan and Thalapathi are usually mentioned as peers – maybe because it is one of the better films of Rajni’s sorry career. Even the so-called iconic moments of the film (Rajni’s entrance, the argument with the police, the scene where Rajni learns who is mother is) are honestly not that great. The Gen-Z word “mid” is tailor-made for this movie I feel. Nayakan most definitely does not suffer from this problem.
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brangan
April 25, 2023
therag: Same here. I feel NAYAKAN >>>>>> THALAPATHI. Both are amazing technical achievements, but the big moments still work for me in the Kamal film, not so much in the Rajini film.
This is a Mani Ratnam ranking I did a few years ago. I might change the order of a few other films, but, yes, NAYAKAN >>>>>> THALAPATHI.
https://www.filmcompanion.in/fc-lists/every-mani-ratnam-film-ranked
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Madan
April 25, 2023
Agree with the both of you. Nayagan over Dhalapathi for me as well. Also, I found the massy Dhalapathi chorus theme in the BGM a tad annoying and emblematic of a ‘louder’ film than Nayagan.
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hari prasad
April 25, 2023
In mid 2021 , it was said that Mani Ratnam along with the Film Heritage Foundation were planning to digitize his earlier movies starting from Pallavi Anupallavi to Alaipayuthey and release those versions on streaming platforms.
To date , only the remastered versions of Nayakan , Bombay and Dil Se had been released.
Now that I’ve seen the digitally restored Nayakan and marvelled at the cinematography of PC Sreeram , I’m eagerly awaiting to see the remasters of Iruvar and Thalapathi.
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Rahini David
May 6, 2023
Spotify AWOL, BR?
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brangan
May 7, 2023
Rahini: Spotify pulled the plug on all the commissioned shows, and I am planning to do something on my own. (They said I cannot use the same name: Cinema with BR).
Do you think an AskBR type Q and A will work, where people can ask anything (cinema, books, whatever)?
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Rahini David
May 7, 2023
BR: You mean like this blog it would be a podcast that belongs to you and you can choose the topics with more freedom, no?
How will the technical part work? Can you just record and upload? Or will you be getting external help for it?
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Rahini David
May 7, 2023
Personally I would prefer to go into a topic knowing what topic you are tackling rather than just knowing that you’d would be answering 5-6 disjointed questions.
The following would be my wish list.
One, It would be great if film related books are reviewed. Whether they are about film history or editing etc. You can also talk about what difference such books can make to a critic or even just a cinephile
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Rahini David
May 7, 2023
Two, music. Some podcasts do cover Tamil cinema music. But it would be nice to hear some podcasts on the evolution of lyrics from pre-kannadadan to current times.
Three, interviews with cameramen, editors, choreographers, stunt choreographers. People who a “producer” may not consider, but those who have stories to tell.
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Rahini David
May 7, 2023
How does the money work? Is it similar to Youtube ad revenue?
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Rahini David
May 7, 2023
Also, most importantly make sure it doesn’t result in you becoming overworked. Your current involvement in Bitty Ruminations and blog discussions suggest that you are less overworked or stressed recently. That is invaluable.
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Karthik
May 7, 2023
BR: It’s unfortunate that Spotify pulled the plug, but if it frees you up to do whatever you want on a podcast, that’s just great (assuming economics, time management etc work out).
I agree with Rahini: go into a topic knowing what topic you are tackling rather than just knowing that you’d would be answering 5-6 disjointed questions
I also second all of Rahini’s ideas for topics.
Personally, I think everytime you go deeper into any aspect of cinema, a specific movie or a specific piece of music- I find those to be more enjoyable than the more macro discussions like mainstream, violence, academy awards and such. I think the podcast is a great vehicle for a deeper engagement with any subject.
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Madan
May 7, 2023
“Personally, I think everytime you go deeper into any aspect of cinema, a specific movie or a specific piece of music- I find those to be more enjoyable than the more macro discussions like mainstream, violence, academy awards and such. I think the podcast is a great vehicle for a deeper engagement with any subject.” – Agreed completely.
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Nimmi Rangaswamy
May 7, 2023
I really liked your video essays, FC Flashback, FC Reco- you could do all of these… You can do a selective profile of cinema personalities – From Nagesh/Manorama to contemporary folks. Reviewing Classics. lots to pick from…
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hari prasad
May 7, 2023
How about reviving Food Companion by renaming it freely this time as ForkOff or ForkIt , where you have casual conversations with cine people while having food?
But sadly that concept has been done to death at the main Galatta YouTube channel and Behindwoods.
An AskBR type podcast where you reminisce about the past without berating the present like telling today’s folks why Kamal / Rajini was special , how actually good was T Rajendar in the 80s with his music before he became a joke , what was Ilayaraja’s musical appeal and what do you think made people gravitate towards him and how being a cinephile back in the day was , would be good , I guess.
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hari prasad
May 7, 2023
And I think you should educate people more about music directors like Vedha , V Kumar , Shankar – Ganesh , Chandrabose , Gangai Amaran etc.
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Kay
May 8, 2023
Missing the podcast. It would be nice if you can choose a topic and do a podcast in that BR. Maybe in the end you can address some questions. That way best of both will be there.
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