Spoilers ahead…
Mani Ratnam amps down the aural drama and amps up the visual drama. Even by this director’s legendary standards, the staging is something else.
Mani Ratnam has credited SS Rajamouli several times as the reason he was able to finally make Ponniyin Selvan: the mega-success of the Bahubali films made it possible for other creators to think of stories in terms of two-parters. And, together, what these two filmmakers have demonstrated is that these two-part, larger-than-life stories can exist at either end of the cinematic spectrum. They can be thunder. They can also be a whisper. There are hardly any raised voices in Ponniyin Selvan 2, and save for a couple of action/battle scenes, this may be the quietest epic I’ve seen. The zingers are quiet, like Nandini’s whiplash-retort to Ravidasan that he can never hope to accomplish something that she herself is unable to. The confrontations are quiet, like when Aditha Karikalan keeps mocking Periya Pazhuvettarayar as “thatha” and “paatta“, as if to rub in the age difference between the senior man and his wife, Nandini.
You can read the rest of the review here:
https://www.galatta.com/tamil/movie/review/ponniyin-selvan-2/
And you can watch the video review here:
Copyright ©2023 GALATTA.
Baradwaj Rangan 
sravishanker1401gmailcom
April 28, 2023
Super ! Thanks BR! Writing the review without spoilers is no mean acrobatic feat. When Jeyamohan said in a recent interview that this is Mani Ratnam’s best ever, my expectation levels zoomed and you’ve vindicated it!
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
April 28, 2023
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
April 28, 2023
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brangan
April 28, 2023
sravishanker1401gmailcom: Thanks for the hard copy of the cartoon 🙂
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
April 28, 2023
Ah ! You GOT it finally!! I’m thrilled! I’d sent 2 more earlier end January. Not sure if they sank along with Arulmozhi Varman
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Jeeva Pitchaimani
April 28, 2023
Like the boat collision scene, there was another reference to Ravanan where Vikram addresses Aish in a revolving boat, here he uses a restless horse. And Vikram did not do anything here other than extrapolate his Ravananisms here and it worked!
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hari prasad
April 28, 2023
In Raavanan , we had a celebratory song which was Kodu Potta and in PS , we had Chola Chola where he dances with his clan members and sings his clan pride.
There , we had a mission driven Dev and here we have a mission driven Vandhiyathevan , except now the mission driven guy is a hero who helps Vikram in PS.
One of the reasons I think really elevated the Vikram – Aishwarya scenes was the fact that we had already seen them have this somewhat similar awkward relationship in Raavanan , that familiarity helped and it didn’t breed contempt at all.
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hari prasad
April 28, 2023
The movie kept cutting back to the events that triggered Nandhini’s revenge like the banishment from her home and Karikalan killing Veera Pandiyan , which reminded me of Aayutha Ezhuthu where before and after each flashback of the three leads , we land up at the shootout at the Napier’s Bridge.
And like Aayutha Ezhuthu , PS is a hyperlink narrative (I think so)
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Aman Basha
April 28, 2023
Am I the only one who’s grinning at the irony of a movie starring Aishwarya as Nandini clashing with a Salman Khan movie?
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
April 28, 2023
Aman saar. Neenga yengeyoooooooo p……..
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Aman Basha
April 28, 2023
@sravikshanker140: Indha kallum, pattum, raktam, porkalam ellam avalai marakkathal 🙂 (If people know the history, the quote hits harder)
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The King in the North
April 28, 2023
Just watched it. Too good.
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hari prasad
April 28, 2023
@Aman Basha: Am I the only one who’s grinning at the irony of a movie starring Aishwarya as Nandini clashing with a Salman Khan movie?
And beating him to pulp at the box office which no one ever thought…
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Severus Snape
April 29, 2023
I thought there would be a lot more comments, considering the ardent fanbase of the book and how the movie apparently deviates from it
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bart
April 29, 2023
Good review. This 2-part epic felt like Mani’s story-telling capability at its best. As though he worked on all other movies to deliver this. Such a layered, complex and dense story has been condensed and communicated with minimal loss of emotion. Brilliant movie. All technical departments and the actors (barring their ages against the characters, which was visible) were at their best.
The original story has been changed quite a bit to suit the cinematic story-telling and to provide a proper closure to characters with a high. But if watched standalone and treat both seperate for their respective mediums of their narration, this is as good. It is difficult to do justice to the original in a 2-part that runs lesser than 3 hrs. The only way probably the original could be conveyed as it is would be through a web series for 2 seasons with 10 episodes each running around 1 hr.
Bahubali had a simple story that wowed with its visual narration and creativity while this wows with an absolutely-essential but aesthetic mode of narration of such a complex story.
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Karthik S
April 29, 2023
Perhaps I am alone in thinking that the emotional foundations so well laid out in PS-1 were shaky at best in 2. I enjoyed the depth afforded to Nandini’s character study. I am not a fan of Aishwarya’s performances but in 2 her expressions were as good as any I have seen recently (sans Sai Pallavi in Gargi but you see the level I am talking about).
My biggest issues with the movie are two-fold – the unpeeled potential of key relationships. Kundavai and Vandhiyathevan get one odd scene where the sword is supposed to be some metaphor that I did not completely get. Karthi’s expressive eyes when he said “uyir ungaludayathu Devi” in 1 is one for the ages. I did like the final scene when Trisha ambles forward to be by his side. Needed more of that.
The other gripe is – and this is where I am going to be really, really alone – Rahman’s BGM! It just did not work for me. Mani stages a brilliant Ash-Vikram finale and the two are spewing cool dialogues and acting out of their skin, but the musical tone was underwhelming. I remembered Nayagan and Kamal in that epic scene wailing at the death of his son. It was music that made the rest of us cry as well.
Overall the movie was serviceable. Or as BR said about a recent Salman movie – it is ‘watchable’. Perhaps twice watchable.
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brangan
April 29, 2023
bart: About the ages of actors, I felt that, too. With the exception of the Puzhuvettarayar brothers, Nambi, Sundara Cholan, etc. – almost everyone else seemed like they could use a younger double. (Okay, Trisha is an exception. She can really pass for a twenty-something, no?)
But strangely, In Vikram’s case alone, his age — I felt — added to to the character’s angst. It’s one thing to be pining for someone and still be filled with angst in your twenties. But to keep that poison in your heart and being unable to shake it off even when older — that added a curious, ’96 Vijay Sethupathi’-like poignancy to Aditha’s character.
PS: I thought the Pandiyas were very well cast, especially the actor who plays Devaralaan. Is he a theatre actor? I thought Yog Japee was fantastic, too, as Karuthiruman. I wonder why he isn’t seen more in character roles in other films.
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brangan
April 29, 2023
Severus Snape: Oh, the days of “immediately watching a major movie and commenting on it” are long gone 🙂 Even with PS1, there were quite a few comments from people who said they waited for OTT.
But even otherwise, if you see the comments, I think this blog is seeing MORE comments from the SAME set of few people. Earlier, the number of individual commenters used to be more. I think commenting/discussing is slowly phasing out as well…
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Kay
April 29, 2023
We definitely need spin offs for the different characters and storylines. Putting this out in the universe.
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Kay
April 29, 2023
Did anyone else feel everything was happening very fast? I got this same feeling in Viduthalai. And the second half is a complete blur. (SPOILER ALERT!!!!!) It was very odd that people were quick to believe VT killed AK and Parthibendran wasn’t even ready to listen to an explanation. And what’s with the sudden change of heart in Mathuranthagan? Totally out of character for someone who coveted the throne for years. But overall loved the angst and darkness in the movie.
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Anuja Chandramouli
April 29, 2023
PS 2 has its moments…
The performances were good across the board. Vikram can always be expected to be outstanding but Ash Rai was a pleasant surprise and seems to have really upped her game. Ditto, Jayam Ravi. Karthi was damn good too. Sara Arjun was excellent.
Some of the changes worked for me. It was nice to see the siblings together though unlike in the book they covered great distances pretty quickly without the aid of automobiles! But that was a minor grouse.
I was less happy with the writing though, given the calibre of those involved and since they were drawing from Kalki’s rich material. The entire angle with the Rashtrakutas and Madhurantakan was unconvincing. Since the former are hellbent on destroying the Cholas, I didn’t get why they would let him saunter out of their stronghold declaring that he would rather be Arulmozhi’s adimai after a sudden change of heart. And Mani can’t shoot battle or combat scenes worth a damn so why bother with those? The scene in the Buddhist viharam at Nagai just dragged on and on. The climatic battle was embarrassingly bad. It would be unfair to expect Mani to deliver John Wick like action but c’mon! These scenes just messed with the pace without much of a pay off.
Poor Poonkuzhali, Sendhen Amuthan were robbed!! The latter is one of my favourite characters in the book, but I suppose in the interests of cinematic expediency these cuts were necessary. I wish Oomai Rani and Periya Pazhuvettaraiyar hadn’t been robbed too. And I missed the ill -fated Manimekalai. I kept expecting Aditi Rao Hydari to make an entry in that role . Also, I can’t be the only one who felt that though Prakash Raj is a legit legend, Aravind Swamy might have been a better choice for Sundara Chozha named thus for his surpassing handsomeness? Would have been nice to see a flashback featuring him and Mandakini too, since she is the beating heart of the book!
Probably in a minority here, but ARR’s BGM makes me wanna kill myself and I can’t help but think what Ilayaraja could have done in this space. Oh well, all said and done the movie version of Kalki’s classic is not too bad. Happy for Mani and the realisation of his long cherished dream.
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bart
April 29, 2023
Yes BR, Trisha seems to be on the same age with some much better acting skills 🙂 Vikram’s facial expressions convey (e.g.: the scene where he hears from Nambi that his brother is safe) so much beautifully that very few can. The angst of the love failure came out better through the unkemptness and the wrinkes in his forehead perhaps. I think because Aishwarya was cast as Nandini (who otherwise should’ve been much younger as per book), Vikram suited even more. I was thinking a Vijay Devarakonda (Ref: Arjun Reddy) kind of angst with cynicism could’ve suited as well depending on the other cast and crew.
Every character was almost perfectly cast including the Pandiyan crew. Deveraalan was a theatre actor, Vinay Kumar Joseph (google search). The lady alongwith in the aabathudhavigal also did very well (the scene where she persuades Ponniyin Selvan to stay back in Naagai while scheming backend to kill him).
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brangan
April 29, 2023
bart: I think that is Nimmi Raphael. (Can’t say for sure because of the makeup.) If yes, she’s a brilliant actor. I met her at Adishakti during the Santosh Sivan shoot.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
April 29, 2023
“Ash Rai was a pleasant surprise” Anuja vaayaala Brahma Rishi 🙂
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Madan
April 29, 2023
In the RWI for Jubilee, there are lot of people commenting who aren’t often seen in the threads. So I guess a good chunk of BR’s Tamil movie readership has migrated…to Blue Sattai or something?
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brangan
April 29, 2023
bart: Such a layered, complex and dense story has been condensed and communicated with minimal loss of emotion.
SPOILERS AHEAD
And watching Part-2, one thing struck out — that the two films put together and seen together will make for a fuller experience.
In the sense that earlier, Kundavai has more of a role to play, and Aditha is more like a guest presence. But here, Kundavai — her work done — recedes to the background and gives room for Aditha’s angst to blossom. Earlier, Nambi played a bigger part in conveying messages etc., but now, Parthibendran comes to the fore. (Remember, we first saw Parthibendran in Aditha’s tent, and midway, it is to him that Aditha makes his big confession — and now, in Part 2, he is mad on Aditha’s behalf. Plus, there’s a shared Nandini factor.)
So when you see it as a five-hour piece, almost everyone is “equal”. It’s just that some have their moments earlier, and the others gets their moments later.
Of course, as I mentioned in my review, you may wish for more of this person or that person in each individual film — but overall, MR and Elango Kumaravel (and later Jeyamohan) have really cracked this solidly.
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Karthik
April 29, 2023
SPOLIERS AHEAD
The staging really is vera level. Leave the big scenes aside. Those are just amazing. But even a small scene like the one between Nandini and Parthibendran was so beautifully done. The color and contrast between the two characters, she’s in the light, he’s in the darkness. She disarms him with her beauty and wile, just as his armor is literally being taken off.
Just as with PS-1, its remarkable how the three writers make this movie stand on its own. Here too, I loved the echos, parallels and contrasts.
Like the two scenes with Vandiyathevan & Nandini and Vandiyathevan & Kundavai that are almost identical in conception and yet so different in emotion. Both of them spin around him with a sword, but he disarms them by “touching” both of them in such different ways.
Or the parallel between father and son, and the implication that they were both reckless. One man sees the lover he jilted die in his arms, and the other one dies in the arms of the lover he lost.
Or how a woman’s story begins with her coming out of the water and ends with her going in.
Even at the dialogue level, the way Karikalan’s insinuation to Periyapazhuvettarayar that splitting the throne is like splitting a wife, in a scene that’s staged with him sitting in front of a throne that’s seating a goddess. A goddess whose parallel to Nandini was established in part 1.
When I left the theatre, I was a tad disappointed at the choice of leaving out Kalki’s big twist. But thinking back, the twist while jaw-dropping and even poetic (in the way it harks back to the very first act of Madhurantakan being mistaken for Nandini), was not necessarily organic. In a way, Kalki split the character of Uttama Chozhan into two characters, putting greed in one, and humility in the other. Here the spirit of that is captured in Madhurantakan’s transformation, and in the reinforcement of Kalki’s larger theme that those who least coveted the throne are the ones who deserved to ascend it. Plus, the demonstration of Madhurantakan as a warrior fit in with the overall Veera Chozha theme of the film, and the fact that the real life Uttama Chozha was trained in warfare.
Initially I was a bit puzzled at the final war sequence which seemed more a cinematic choice to have a grand climactic act. But when the two movies are viewed together, I see it now as a fitting climax of the event that opened the first film. An un-warrior like act of Karikalan committed out of his personal guilt, came back to bite the Cholas, but Arul Mozhi, now channeling the “spirit of Karikalan” as he says, closes it out.
One issue I had was that the character arcs of Madhurantakan and Parthibendran, especially Parthibendran didnt fully work for me. I remember from the book that there is a bit “vying for Karikalan” stuff between Vandiyathevan and Parthibendran, and maybe if they had fleshed that out a bit more it would have allowed us to connect better with his transformation.
ARR did go all out with his background score, but I could still only connect with the songs, and their instrumental reprisals rather than the other portions (the Nandini theme in particular didnt work for me in the first or second parts).
And yeah, that scene with the siblings, thats just Spielbergian in the best way possible.
What was amazing is how PS-1 and PS-2 were so different in tone, the first one was lively, light, more action driven, whereas the second one was dialogue driven, and carried all the emotional heft. And they fit together so well.
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Satya
April 29, 2023
BR, you once helped me understand the staging of scenes using innovative camera movements where th camera movement should be clean and invisible, quoting a scene from Kaatru Veliyidai. It was a beautifully filmed long take.
Today, as I watch PS 2, which is also directed by MR and shot by Ravi Varman, I wonder how some shots were even approved. There were many horrendous takes, but to quote one, there was this scene where Sundara Chola narrates his flashback to Kundavai regarding Mandakini. In that sequence, when the camera tries to do a 360 degree shot on Kundavai, it is so not clean. In fact, it ends very abruptly and awkwardly and to my chagrin, the shot repeats itself thrice in the same sequence – with all respect, television serials do a better job with these.
Also, I might be in the minority (which I am fine with), but I keep wondering what someone like Aishwarya Rajesh would have done for Nandini instead of Aishwarya Rai who actually looked like a lost cause. She was very effective in Jodhaa Akbar and equally unsure here. Almost made me recollect your views on Trisha’s casting in Kodi. At this moment, I am even fine with seniors like Tamannaah and Nayantara doing the honours for Nandini.
(Ironically) PS: I really chuckled when Nandini says to Vandhiyathevan that he is the only man who saw Nandini’s tears. What about the day when Aditha hacked Veera Pandian to death? They both saw your tears, woman. Stop flirting!
PPS: In the screening I was watching, when the infamous Aditha meets Nandini scene happens, people were hooting and I surely heard someone asking them to find a room and then get back to business. Dear Lord!!!
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therag
April 29, 2023
@BR, the guy who plays Devaraalan is Vinay Kumar, also a part of Adishakti. He starred in a great English language play called Bali (a twist on the Valee-Sugreeva episode in the Ramayana) that is well worth a watch. Fantastic actor.
Spoilers Ahead.
I liked the movie very much, until the last 15 minutes or so. Frankly though, I knew there would be some brow-beating about Chola empire and the coronation, but I never expected a full-blown extremely loud battle sequence. For me, the movie ended after Nandhini’s arc ended in the river and Periya Pazhuvettaraiyar is found. I honestly thought even the subplot of Vandhiyathevan being accused could have been left out (instead PP committing harakiri for having aided Nandhini could have been included).
But MR NAILED AK’s death. The whole sequence in the den with the dead animals, the dimly lit room with just the two, the Aabathudhavigals lurking in the background was supremely well done. Especially the lead-up to the scene where he establishes both hideways in Thanjai and Kadambur was just pure terror. I remember MR said in his Kaatru Veliyidai interview that he would never do a horror film – and what a shame. I think horror is right up his alley. His ability to do expositions and shoot set-pieces in tight locations makes him an amazing candidate IMHO.
Speaking of expositions, how on earth does Mani find SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS to do them. Like how? You will never find people in the same frame just simply talking. In one instance, there are two boats in opposite directions. A few minutes later, there are two boats but positioned orthogonally and one smashes into the other – all while people are talking. My favourite is the interrogation of Vandhiyadhevan by Nandhini which happens almost like a mild Chola-era waterboarding.
I am satisfied with the adaptation. I know that GOT feeling of too many things happening too quickly, but I knew that would be the case and mentally prepared for it. As such, I think they did a fantastic job with most characters. If you had to do Ponniyin Selvan in 5 hours, I honestly don’t know if you can do better.
Now for the gripes.
– I’ll have to watch it again to figure out why they had that war sequence in the end (in the story that is, I know commercial reasons and making it cinematic are all reasons). I am guessing it was the only way to tie the loose end of Madhurandhakan getting crowned instead of PS. I actually thought the whole Sendhan Amudhan-Madhurandhakan switch in the books was a bit clunky and I am glad it got left out. But I wish they had figured out a better way to bring him into the fold. Whatever be the case, I honestly didn’t enjoy them even though they felt real.
– Giving Parthibendhiran too much screen-time. He didn’t do much for me (arguably in the novel as well), but I genuinely don’t know what his role was in this film. If you take him out of this film, does this affect the film in any way? Me thinks no. I think he should have been written out and more screen-time given to Periya Pazhuvettaraiyar.
– Poonguzhali: Both parts combined, I thought the best part about Poonguzhali was that yellow bikini-top she rocked when entering Thanjai. They robbed my boy Sendhan Amudhan in this timeline but at least he still gets Miss Chola 968AD. When Mani said Poonguzhali was his favorite character growing up, I know exactly what he means.
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Nappinai (@Nappinai2)
April 29, 2023
PS-2 worked better than PS-1 for me, although it’s less faithful to the books. I particularly liked how Mani provides center stage to the human drama amidst all the action and conspiracy. Kalki’s novel underplays the emotions amidst the larger turmoil. In that sense, I felt PS-2 was more of a Mani’s film.
For instance, the film fleshes out beautifully the parallel between the Sundara Chola- Mandakini and Aditya-Nandini stories. While both the father and son are guilty of the same mistake, the women respond in completely different ways. One sacrifices her life while the other unleashes revenge. This aspect is not obvious in the books but hits you while watching PS-2.
PS-2 arguably, makes the Aditya-Nandini arc central to the story and I felt it was in a good way. In that high point of the film, at the Kadambur palace, you really feel for these two characters. You know there is no happy ending possible to relieve them from the suffering. It’s really sad to see that play out.
Although Vikram was really good, I felt he was underwhelming at that Kadambur opening scene as compared to the books. I mean, he wasn’t mad enough. Kalki’s Aditya Karikalan was a raging mad elephant while Mani’s is mad but comes across as more sad.
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Anand
April 29, 2023
—Spoiler Alert—
First and foremost what a dignified closure to the crown question that is closer to reality and boldly deviated from the liberty that kalki took to add a few twists in novel (children swap , nandini-madhurantakan twin relationship , senthan amudhan etc, etc) which in fact reduced the dignity of a few great real royal people. All those were rightly avoided by MR.
Like kundavai gate crashing sitrasargal party in PS-1, here a very beautiful scene of 3 siblings sharing a bonding together which is not in the novel but gave a wonderful cinematic moment . Also the kundavai-VD proposal team with Aga Naga in background was beautiful.
Intense drama well fleshed out, the only portion seemed rushed was the entire sequence involving mafhurantakan, parthibendran and rashtrakuta culminating in war.
Songs and BGM elevated for most parts, except a few. well shot on camera along with other technical aspects.
Not just MR dream came true , many who read this also would feel so..albeit some% of it may feel on missing out on a few characters and also deviation…but this to me is a satisfactory and dignified adaptation.
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nilfbosh
April 30, 2023
Did anyone else think that a lot of VFX was done on Aishwarya Rai’s face? Or is it just me?
Take for instance the opening scene in this movie, when Parthibendran comes ashore. All of her close up shots just reminded me of whatever they did for the Legend’s face in his movie, making it look too plastic’y.
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vsrini
April 30, 2023
@nilfbosh: Could be PFX (cosmetic surgery)
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Prat
April 30, 2023
“Although Vikram was really good, I felt he was underwhelming at that Kadambur opening scene as compared to the books. ” Totally agree! In the book he was UNHINGED and it added up to the big scene. Here that was totally absent.
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Vs
April 30, 2023
Agree with Satya – have been thinking that Aishwarya Rajesh, Sai Pallavi folks like that could have played Nandini, Kundavai characters;
Didn’t realize that even Trisha had someone dubbing for her; Not that Hollywood or European cinema is perfect but dubbing for someone seems terrible considering your voice, modulation etc is probably 50% of acting. Having said that, Rai and Trisha did reasonably good jobs. But I was thinking someone close to Ramya Krishan’s talent (a la Baahubali) had played Nandini, Kundavai characters..
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brangan
April 30, 2023
therag: I knew there would be some brow-beating about Chola empire and the coronation, but I never expected a full-blown extremely loud battle sequence.
SPOILERS
I know, but I was kinda prepared for a last 20-minutes or so that would evoke mixed reactions — because that’s the book, too. I don’t remember the exact set of sequences that ended the book now but I recall a javvu feeling — like “dude, it’s all over, what’s this new confusion now!” At least a serialised book can take that, but there’s no way a screenplay can initiate that twist so late in the game.
But what the battle accomplished was a closure to the first scene of PS-1. The fact that all the Cholas ganged up against the man who should actually be grateful to have his head on his shoulders had a lovely masala touch to it. And I liked it that the battle seemed relatively short, though a critic I spoke to said he felt the battle went on and on. Well…
As the for coronation, I really don’t see any other way the film could have ended “cleanly”. I don’t know the exact history, but the book really becomes exhausting by that point.
PS: I loved the fact that it’s left to our imagination whether Aditha plunged the knife into himself, or Nandini did…
PPS: And how nice that MR has not only (finally) brought PS to the screen but also resurrected a dead genre (now there will be a scramble for historical epics) and done it entirely his own way!
PPPS: I get the feeling that after CCV and the two PS films, MR’s screenwriting is going to become even more concise. We’ll have wait for his next to find out.
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therag
April 30, 2023
@BR, yes I agree that even the book’s ending is a little frustrating, so the movie’s ending did not frustrate me as much. For me the movie ended when Nandhini disappears. Sort of like The Return of the King where the movie is effectively over once the ring is destroyed.
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Rajesh Arumugam
April 30, 2023
The person in Devaralan attam (the one who kills one of the abadth udhavi or the billa / soodhu kavvum guy) is a core member of adi sakthi theatre in auroville pondicherry .. guess he mentors theatre artists and conducts workshops.. https://www.instagram.com/adishaktitheatre/
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brangan
April 30, 2023
Kodangi in full form here 😀
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brangan
April 30, 2023
nilfbosh: I don’t know about Ash, but one of the most lucrative businesses today is the de-aging of stars (especially male stars) — removing wrinkles, jowls, crow’s feet, patching up bald spots, etc.
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Severus Snape
April 30, 2023
nilfbosh: Yeah, that scene at the beginning where Parthibendran is charmed didn’t work for me at all, that too when the whole scene relies on her charm.
Satya: About the (ironical) PS, she was trying to charm the wits out of him, no? And Karikalan didn’t give a damn about her tears at that time, and acknowledged them by slicing that guy’s head. Vanthiyadevan at least looked sympathetic.
BR: I guess I was expecting all this discussion a bit too early😀. I know this is far from the days of 200 comments, but I’m happy there’s already one RWI about the movie and people agreeing and disagreeing with both MR and Kalki.
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vijay
April 30, 2023
“And how nice that MR has not only (finally) brought PS to the screen but also resurrected a dead genre (now there will be a scramble for historical epics) …..’
too early to say this..Mani had the advantage of stars cooperating not just on monetary aspects but on the sets as well..May not happen for other directors..Plus Ponniyin selvan’s popularity helped too..which other work is going to generate as much interest/debate all over TN? the results may be diminishing with such metoo efforts..we’ll have to wait and see
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Voldemort
April 30, 2023
Vs : Didn’t realize that even Trisha had someone dubbing for her; Not that Hollywood or European cinema is perfect but dubbing for someone seems terrible considering your voice, modulation etc is probably 50% of acting
Forget Hollywood. As much as everyone loves to hate Bollywood, all actors dub for themselves there, and only when there is a specific requirement for a different voice go for a dubbing artist. I was watching some pre-release interview of PS-1 in which Trisha rambled on and on about how difficult “Zen-Tamil” was to learn and pronounce, and got so annoyed. Tamil is not even my native language but I can pronounce ‘Senthamizh’ much better than her – an actor whose job is to emote using many things including the language, and who supposedly studied it for months. Duh.
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musical v
April 30, 2023
Sridevi’s voice was dubbed for bollywood films. Even rani mukerjee’s voice was dubbed for one film. A lata could sing for different actresses from Nargis to Kajol. Playback singing and then dubbing have become norms over time. Bollywood actors try to learn and master urdu. Compared, south Indian languages are somewhat difficult to read and write if one is not fond of learning other languages. Some will rather learn german, french, russian than try to learn and master atleast one south Indian language. 3 language formula failed and it did not takeoff at all. As long as film makers from the south want stylish actresses with fair skin, dusky actresses with good command over language will struggle to compete. Maybe film makers want all India audience to watch their films by dangling these attractions.
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Madan
April 30, 2023
“Compared, south Indian languages are somewhat difficult to read and write if one is not fond of learning other languages. Some will rather learn german, french, russian than try to learn and master atleast one south Indian language. ” – I get all this but Trisha grew up and was schooled in Chennai. She has no excuse for not being able to pronounce Sentamizh.
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Heisenberg
April 30, 2023
Part 2 was lot better than 1. Would like to discuss few things here. But firstly few things that bothered me. Like someone mentioned, Aishwarya rai as nandhini looked like deepfake in many places.. wonder why the CG outcome was so poor.
Another baffling thing was digital pattai added to vikram in some scenes. The one where he confronts sittrarasargal and offers throne to madhunthakan.. the scene went on for few mins and that digital pattai was really bothering.. was it so important to that scene? If so how come ManiRatnam forgot that while shooting and had to add it in CG?
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vijay
April 30, 2023
“If so how come ManiRatnam forgot that while shooting and had to add it in CG?”
maybe he was reacting to some criticisms that came his way after PS-1? that is assuming that it was indeed digitally done, havent seen PS-2 yet.
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Jeyashree
May 1, 2023
I may be in the minority here but the movie didn’t ring emotionally with me at all. And I found that it was the performances that didn’t live up to the cinematography or the music. Oh the male leads were spectacular especially Jayam ravi finding subtle expressions for righteousness, confidence and courage, but I think the key female actors were prettier than they were performers.
I found the flash back the weakest and its failure to register as painful interfered with my experiencing the rest of the movie. While the young karikalan oozed every bit of the pride and madness characteristic of karikalan, Young Nandhini had the plainest face sans any expression even in the scene where she rides the horse with karikalan or the one when she was evicted or when he brings her as pattathu Rani to the palace. This majorly came in the way of feeling what aneedhi had befallen her.
The Mani who could manage a wonderful younger Sridevi in dalapathi seemed to have just picked a pretty girl to play young Nandhini who barely looks anything like the aishwarya. The eyes the eyes !!! Aishwarya tries to speak volumes through them (over all the cg that made her so plasticky in some scenes) and I wished I had seen some of it at least in her younger version.
Trisha all prettily dressed and managed with the one expression of her eyebrows and lips slightly screwed in curiosity and playfulness throughout. This worked in ps1 but here I found her in the Kodi situation with more weight to lift but limited range. So much left desired there in that beautifully imagined scene with aga Naga playing. The female actor in the Pandiya side and their insider in Chola palace were more convincing
Truly wish there had been more of the versatile Shobhita and aishwarya Lekshmi.
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Maru
May 1, 2023
I came away from PS2 with very mixed emotions ….torn between appreciation for its intense character study and a gnawing disquiet at how much it deviates from Kalki’s plot. Perhaps if I hadn’t read and loved the books I would’ve been completely satisfied by the edge of the seat drama and the way everything is wrapped up ever so prettily with a bow.
The first film had its share of re-imagining too but that felt much more in service of Kalki’s vision. For instance the scene that shows not tells us what a canny strategist Kundavai is. Without getting into the weeds with spoilers, the reworking in PS2 seems to drift far away from Kalki even if some plot points are more elegant and parsimonious than in the novel – for instance the Madhurantakan conclusion. But we move farthest away from Kalki with Nandini who’s a much softer, more sympathetic and penitent figure here and with Aditha Karikalan whose manic energy and mercurial temperament aren’t really on display. As fine an actor as Vikram is, his isn’t the Karikalan of the book who despite only appearing in Vol 4 has an outsize influence on the reader because of his mad, propulsive, impulsive character.
Still there’s much to enjoy – it’s beautifully mounted and staged, and a least a couple of scenes (the Karthi and Trisha love scene and the one with the three siblings) are the stuff of dreams for fan fiction lovers. I usually find Aishwarya Rai extremely limited and shrill but Magician Mani managed to draw a very effective Nandini from her. I only wish the very capable Aishwarya Lakshmi and Sobhita had more to do.
The big war sequence did absolutely nothing for me, I wish they had used the time instead to punch up the character drama because that’s really where the film soars.
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bash
May 1, 2023
@Jayshree
“I found the flash back the weakest and its failure to register as painful interfered with my experiencing the rest of the movie. While the young karikalan oozed every bit of the pride and madness characteristic of karikalan, Young Nandhini had the plainest face sans any expression even in the scene where she rides the horse with karikalan or the one when she was evicted or when he brings her as pattathu Rani to the palace. This majorly came in the way of feeling what aneedhi had befallen her.”
Same problem as with Kadal. I’m done with MR films till he stops being South Indian Karan Johar and casting ONLY nepo babies in his films. And till he stops using ARR and his idiotic operatic background scores that have no desi flavour or appropriateness. I guess I will not be able to watch any MR going forward.
“Trisha all prettily dressed and managed with the one expression of her eyebrows and lips slightly screwed in curiosity and playfulness throughout. This worked in ps1 but here I found her in the Kodi situation with more weight to lift but limited range.”
This is the only expression I’ve even see Trisha show (when she’s supposed to be happy/romancing). She’s a terrible actress. I second whoever said it was laughable for her to go on and on about sen-thamizh and its difficulty. What’re being paid for, lady?
Anyway, I find MR films very annoying these days – dunno if the annoyance comes from my want to enjoy his films but my complete inability to do so (because the film is so bad). I mean BR can go on and on about how concise Mani has become, what an interesting way of making films he has etc. – to me, that’ve become unwatchable. I hated PS 1 and will not be watching PS 2.
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tamil thanos
May 1, 2023
It’s insane how the whole movie hinges on that one scene between Nandini and Aditha Karikalan. If that scene had been anything less than perfect, this movie would not have worked at all. But holy cannoli, what a scene we got. Everyone in the movie came together in the form to pull off this one 15-minute stretch – Ravi Varman, Mani, AR Rahman, Vikram, Ash, and the writing. I can totally forgive the last 10 minutes. I am just happy to have cherished this on a big screen
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tamil thanos
May 1, 2023
To clarify my previous comment, the reason why I think it is insane is because it’s a big gamble IMO to have the whole epic rest on this scene. Am glad it paid off.
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vijay
May 1, 2023
“Trisha all prettily dressed and managed with the one expression of her eyebrows and lips slightly screwed in curiosity and playfulness throughout.”
Mani’s latest muse after Ash looks like..just good looks and star value, that’s all that is needed. That she cant dub in her voice is actually the least of her many issues.
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Anand
May 1, 2023
There have been some comments in social media stating the movie was flat and no goosebumps (this word has become a bane for good movie makers).
But there are some cherished cinematic moments with wonderful staging which may be they failed to see.
BR too mentioned about the director topping his already lofty standards in terms of staging.
VD – Kundhavai with Aga Naga in background…very creatively shot
Siblings meeting in Choodamani Buddha viharam – the novel didnt give us this moment
AMV escaping as yaanai paagan from there – subtle heroism
Sundara Chozhar-Mandakini scene , the way it was staged
Pivotal AK-Nandhini meeting in Kadambur while the pandya guys and VD sneek in – a scene for the ages and will be talked about for long
The coronation scene , followed by the Raja Raja Chozhan post script before end credits – the soul of the movie is the ultimate sacrifice and it was captured with right emotion and bgm.
Not sure if PS made by another maker would have given these scenes the way it was here. BR, may be you can throw light on whom do you think would have topped MR in this.
And one more request BR, can you share your MR movie ranking post with PS1 & PS2 updated. Will be very interesting to see how the list changes now.
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vijay
May 1, 2023
“I second whoever said it was laughable for her to go on and on about sen-thamizh and its difficulty. What’re being paid for, lady?”
the kind of ‘senthamizh ‘ in this movie is about changing something like (imagine,karthi saying to jayaram) ‘inga okkaaruda’ to ‘inge utkaaravum”, thats about it. If this is really the chaste literary tamil that Trisha cannot handle you wonder..its just a cut above written/spoken contemporary Tamil the likes of which you have already seen in many bad mythological TV serials..
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Satya
May 1, 2023
“I’m done with MR films till he stops being South Indian Karan Johar and casting ONLY nepo babies in his films. And till he stops using ARR and his idiotic operatic background scores that have no desi flavour or appropriateness. I guess I will not be able to watch any MR going forward.”
I don’t know about the nepotism part, but I second you on the collaboration with ARR. I developed a steady fatigue post Raavanan with them, and it refuses to slow down. But then, MR is that one filmmaker whose works frustrate us and makes us swear to disown him, but also who would still make us, the audience, want to wait until the next one comes. So is ARR. Seen that way, it is our KAATRU VELIYIDAI with these two men all the way. 🙂
But, I wish to say this. No matter how much I HATE these two films, I am kind of happy and relieved that MR is done with them and that they have been well received by the Tamil audience (well, majorly). Because now, he could go back to something simpler where he doesn’t have any burden of bringing a much cherished story to life. All he can freely do now, is to make a MR film. I also wish the man good health; he looks very drained out and I can see why.
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Sundaram Raman
May 1, 2023
Superb commentary on the epic movie of Mani Ratnam. With PS 2 Mani Ratnam raised the bar further on film making. I thoroughly enjoyed BR’s review As much as I enjoyed watching the movie on big screen
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musical v
May 1, 2023
Is this film equally popular amongst tamilians who cant understand pure tamizh dialogues? I mean the masses who love mass moments like great visuals of their liking? For bollywood films, the audience are divided into multiplex and singlescreen specific. What is the actual ground report apart from fans of MR who understandably are showering praises? How is it doing with hindi, telugu, kannada, malayalam audience? What about film’s performance in various overseas territories like UK, USA, Canada, gulf, Malaysia etc.?
Happy for MR for getting his due in a different genre. He dreamt big and his dream has come true. Curious to know what will he do next?
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Kaushik Bhattacharya
May 1, 2023
Watched it last night and found it really well mounted, acted and the “vera level” scene staging as many have mentioned.
The age of the actors and Aishwarya Rai’s awful make-up/CG in some scenes was annoying but those are minor gripes.
MR is truly back in form with these two parts of the epic!
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Jay S
May 1, 2023
The movie surely checkmarks BR’s criteria of having 15 or more interesting scenes but it was not an entirely satisfying experience. The last war scene was wasted and not even done well. War scenes were not the strength of maniratnam. And the original story didn’t even need them. He shines in intimate close up drama.
But Aishwarya Rai and her Botox/makeup eroded the experience. I can’t understand the obsession of casting her. We have so many talented actresses who could have done greater justice to the role – Nayanthara to name one. The younger version of Nandhini did a far better job than Ash. It just shows that some people are just lucky and talent seldom wins. An actress with more talent and beauty would have looked so much more natural in the forest scene.
However Kundavai is Trisha’s reward for looking 20 at 40.
I enjoyed ARR’s music except all the rip offs – the barathiyar sounding flash back, dheera – the Shiva bhajan.
Even if I discount having read the book, the movie didn’t hold together and create that experience and effect of watching something impactful.
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Enna koduka sir pera
May 2, 2023
The movie was just so well-made. My only regret is there was too much packed in this movie, which was expected. It didn’t give the necessary space and time for me as an audience to linger, savor and feel the emotions fully before moving onto the next scene/emotion. I really hope MR releases an extended uncut version and I can watch it for hours, savoring every scene. The movie was magnificently shot. A minor gripe for me was that ARR’s score didn’t evoke as much emotion this time as PS1.
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brangan
May 2, 2023
Jay S:Nayanthara to name one…
And how do you know she was not approached? Or several others for that matter? Wait for my memoir ;-D
Seriously speaking, (and not defending Ash here) half the casting in films is a result of people saying “I won’t work with X” or “I won’t work after 6pm” or some such thing. Heck, I’ve even had interviews/round tables where this happens: “Who else is there? Oh, can you remove that person? No? Then can I do a solo interview instead of one with the team?” 🙂
I think it happens in Bollywood, too, but this is especially a big issue in Tamil cinema. Which is why you’ll have a hell of a time casting an RRR. Very insecure actors, and their coteries are worse.
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Jay S
May 2, 2023
@BR can’t wait for your memoir in that case. My 13 year old was observing that in Hollywood, they could have auditions for specific times even if stars are involved and that it probably doesn’t happen in Indian films. The way they talk on stage, you would think that the actors have evolved from the 80s and would put the movie (the product) first.
It is just sad that when 100+ crores is being invested and 100s more are collected back, we can’t bring in the best talent a movie deserves.
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shaviswa
May 2, 2023
For a die hard fan of Kalki’s Ponniyin Selvan, PS2 was a travesty. Sorry just could not enjoy the film.
I have to re-read the novel now to get memories of this film off my mind.
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Satya
May 2, 2023
BR: I don’t care. Casting Aishwarya Rai, with all due respect to the person she would be IRL and her equation with MR, is a disservice to both Nandini and the actress herself. I know many did like her performance, and am fine with that (though her appearance in these films has always received mixed reviews within and outside TN as well). Like I said before, ‘I’ find it hard to accept. It makes me question myself, that can’t MR go for a new face and make it count with his clout as a filmmaker?
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hari
May 3, 2023
I read all 5 volumes of PS and watched PS-1 in prime (I liked PS-1) to be ready in time to watch PS-2 in theatre.
But apart from few moments here and there I didn’t like it. I would have been better off without reading the book and just watched the movies.
There was some unintentional comedy scenes like Karthi crawling under the tiger skin, Jayam ravi with his mouth covered trying to enter the fort, Jayam again whispering in elephant ears at the same time Karthi and Jayaram trying to get his attention.
After reading the book I was wondering how MR is going to handle the floods/cyclones, but MR took the easy way out :).
As someone said Ash’s botox was more pronounced in PS-2.
Looks like a lot of scenes were shot in MH around the lakes/damwaters in and around Satara/Pune, anyone knows about the shooting spots?
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Vee
May 3, 2023
Sure, MR made a movie based on a novel but I think one has to judge the movie on its own merits. In other words, did it work for someone who has not read the novel and is unaware of the Chola history? My guess is no.
There are too many characters, and too many events to keep track of. Ok, PS-2 was bit easier to follow because at least now the plot and characters are somewhat familiar. PS-1 was a blur. Like all MR movies, there are some great cinematic moments, but as a whole the films didn’t work at all.
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Jeyashree
May 4, 2023
All said and complained about aishwarya Rai’s vfxed face and Trisha’s lack of acting range, kudos to Maniratnam for reversing the age old Tamil cinema practice of male actors playing roles much below their age and females half their age playing older roles. Forty year old Trisha and ash playing much younger women is indeed something. Oh boy the darned days of those wigs and two inch thick makeup and lipstick on mgr with Latha and then Rajini with nayantara and now Vijay with rashmika.
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Rahini David
May 4, 2023
Jeyashree, IKR?
I did not even see Trisha and ARB as playing parts younger than their selves. I saw Trisha as an unmarried princess of about mid 30s and ARB as a woman who has been scheming for whole her adult life to get back at the cholas. If Vikram’s age is seen as as advantage as he has been moping for lost love for decades then why not the same with Aishwarya who still remembers how she was unceremoniously thrown out of a big empire 2 decades ago.
In the last scene of Karikalan’s death they should look like they have 2-3 years age gap. Not that she should continue to be a spring chicken. And so it was much easier for me to suspend disbelief that Nandhini was not played by a younger girl.
But Big Pazhuvetraiyar was supposed to have married a young sprout? Then why does that bother people more than Vikram calling Sarath Kumar “Paatta” and they look like they are 4 years apart max? Vikram totally doesn’t look young enough to call Sarath “Granddad”. I mean you can call ANYONE “Granddad” when you are unhappy about their inappropriate marriage. But you know what I mean.
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Jeyashree
May 4, 2023
True Rahini. I am trying to remember if any two actresses found themselves in a similar position in any movie. Maybe Simran and Sameera in that daddy daddy movie
Somehow I feel wronged by the picture’s failure to make an impact with the younger karikalan Nandhini portions. I couldn’t see the young nandhini’s love for karikalan. I wanted to feel my pericardium ripped off at them being separated and to see her driven out while he is away and for it to all ring true when he later says that only she can take her life.
I could see the love when aishwarya shudders at what her separation had turned Vikram into when he loudly and madly thumps his chest in pain during their meeting as adults. But lo nothing in the younger one’s. Not shame not pain not longing not angst not love not fear not wonder not pride nothing!
And now after watching the movie when I listen to chinnanchiru nilavae, I can only see Vikram’s mad eyes begging for death in her hands as mercy and restless locks of hair tossing around like his thoughts and aishwarya’s tear brimming eyes and in the periphery the young and proud teen face of that young karikalan so sure of winning his Nandhini for life.
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vijee
May 5, 2023
@anujamouli Also, I can’t be the only one who felt that though Prakash Raj is a legit legend, Aravind Swamy might have been a better choice for Sundara Chozha named thus for his surpassing handsomeness? —
Very very valid point — one I did not even think about..
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hari prasad
May 5, 2023
Found this really interesting stuff that these two say about editing…
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brangan
May 5, 2023
hari prasad: If you are interested in editing, you must read Ralph Rosenblum’s ‘When the Shooting Stops… the Cutting Begins’.
One of the best film books I have read, and gives you a totally fantastic insight into not just editing but the making of the final film.
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Jeeva Pitchaimani
May 5, 2023
@hari prasad Ezhudumbodhum ipdi nadakum sometimes! Rhythm is very important when you write long essays!
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hari prasad
May 5, 2023
@Jeeva : I suck at writing though I’m a Lit grad…
I’m more of a speaker and a listener but anyway thank you Jeeva for that tip and Baddy for that book recommendation.
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Yajiv
May 5, 2023
@hari prasad: I’m slightly jealous that you got to study Lit in college. Would have loved to have done that (or a similar humanities) if not for ye olde parental pressure.
I hope you keep at the writing! We can be our own worst critic sometimes. I definitely enjoy reading your blog comments.
BR, thanks for the editing book reco. I’m making some amateur attempts at it myself so its much appreciated.
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Satya
May 5, 2023
“Also, I can’t be the only one who felt that though Prakash Raj is a legit legend, Aravind Swamy might have been a better choice for Sundara Chozha named thus for his surpassing handsomeness? Would have been nice to see a flashback featuring him and Mandakini too, since she is the beating heart of the book!”
I wish to believe that MR did consider the latter, but dropped it as we already have a flashback for Karikalan and Nandini. I would still be happy if it was there, as the original scene in the film was honestly filmed in a tacky way. But, watching a sick and ill Aravind Swamy who can do nothing without the chieftains and the kids’ help isn’t something I fancy. Also, the crown PR wears here in the end (which is historically accurate) may not suit Aravind.
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hari prasad
May 5, 2023
I took B.A. English because
I love listening to stories and poems , picking English meant that I can listen to them half a day long.
In my school days , I used to get great marks in English and Tamil.
So , I thought this would be a cakewalk for me.
Right from my childhood , I was into books and all.
The fourth and the most important reason was ; I don’t want to be a sheep that follows the herd by joining B.Com ( I picked Commerce and Business Maths at 11th) and I was really interested in learning more of the language.
My parents weren’t the Vaaranam Aayiram type supportive one but they understood me and let me study.
As for the writing , I often struggle to write down my thoughts or I would think that there’s nothing special to write.
For example , I think of writing what happened in my life today , I sit down , take a notebook and a pen but I would go , ” note eduthu ezhudhura alavuku avlo worth aana incidents lam edhuvum nadakkalaye , நான் இன்றைக்கு இட்லியும் , மீன் குழம்பும் சாப்பிட்டேன் , this aint a remarkable thing , do people write these on their diary?” and just close the book.
I mostly prefer saying stuff to writing because of this.
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hari prasad
May 5, 2023
But I used to write movie reviews on my diary when I was in 11th and 12th , which were plain embarrassing.
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Yajiv
May 5, 2023
@hari prasad: That’s fantastic to hear. Proud of you for following your individual interests instead of the herd. Glad your parents were understanding (even if not fully supportive).
“I love listening to stories and poems , picking English meant that I can listen to them half a day long.” This is so wonderful. Reminded me of Tom Hanks in an interview saying “I literally get to playact for a living. How incredible is that?”
Totally get what you mean by not having anything interesting happening to write about. HAH don’t be too hard on yourself for old reviews written in teen years. We all do cringe stuff in those times.
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Indira Ambur
May 6, 2023
The few tamil families in our small town got together to watch PS 2 last weekend and we totally enjoyed it. We sat through the end credits and discussed the movie after.
The weather was great and what a wonderful day at the movies …
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ara108vind
May 8, 2023
Selvaraghavan “aayiratil oruwan “Karthi did the Vandiya Devan role as a raja thoodar and reema Sen represents Nandini who want to take revenge on the cholas…king partiban is Periya pazluvetaraiyar
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Spandana
May 8, 2023
@Sathya:
‘(Ironically) PS: I really chuckled when Nandini says to Vandhiyathevan that he is the only man who saw Nandini’s tears. What about the day when Aditha hacked Veera Pandian to death? They both saw your tears, woman. Stop flirting!’
I don’t think it is meant to be literal. Aditha basically ignores her pleas to spare Veera Pandiyan, so I read this line as VV being the only person to even acknowledge her grief. But I would have preferred if VV had said something on the lines of “It is unsettling to see the woman who is infamous for being manipulative, express vulnerability” (I am clearly no writer) instead of making her pain too about her beauty. With the implication being that this might be first time a man had looked past her appearance and saw her as a person capable of feeling pain.
I recently watched the PS cast interview with Anupama Chopra where VV’s flirtations with women comes up. It was interesting that Karthi was directed to tone down the charm with Nandini, because he had already met Kundavai and fallen for her. So he is able to see Nandini for herself and not someone to be desired. I do not know this dynamic in the book, but I wish VV’s line had been different.
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Satya
May 8, 2023
Spandana: I did say that sarcastically, but I wholeheartedly agree with your version of Vallavarayan’s line there. Like Severus said above, if that what you said was the endgame, one can also read it as another scheme of Nandini to deceive Vallavarayan for her benefit. But ARR’s score underlines her pain, which robs the moment of it’s uncertainty.
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hari prasad
May 9, 2023
Maybe MR and Rahman would have thought , ” Let me confuse the audience on whether to sympathize with Nandhini or to show them how scheming she is with my music”
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brangan
May 9, 2023
The general consensus from social media has been that MR is terrible at shooting war scenes — as opposed to action scenes. (I really enjoyed both the “tent battle” scene in PS-1 and the pre-interval marketplace action scene in PS-2. The latter was especially enhanced by Rahman’s eerie two-phrase chant from Devaralaan aatam.)
I think the real miscalculation MR did with the war scenes is not in “shooting them badly” but in following his great idol:
(1) Keep the camera at ground level as much as possible. (2) Show chaos instead of ‘choreography’. (3) Cut more choppily.
(If you notice, Sreekar’s editing is very different in the war scenes than in the tent-battle scene and the marketplace-action scene, which are more “classical” and follow the rhythm of the cinematography more closely.).
This sort of aesthetic just does not work for an audience anymore. (And I include myself. I found the PS war scenes generic and watchable and they were not deal-breakers, but nothing more.) Even industry insiders I have spoken to — big directors — have said things like, “We have seen TROY and GLADIATOR” and all that, and what is this?” Those films are the benchmark now, and we cannot ignore that.
And especially after BAAHUBALI and RRR, the “chaos” approach — IMO — just will not work anymore. Take Ram Charan’s introduction. A few shots set up the “chaos” in the large crowd, but it is a stretch shot mostly in frames with fewer people. So we see the beautiful “choreography”.
It is one to thing to chase “being natural” in the acting/staging etc., but I think in war, MR should have been a little more “unreal”. Had he (with his action directors) choreographed the war as much as he choreographs/stages the dramatic scenes… Oh well!
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brangan
May 9, 2023
PS: If anyone has references about a chaotically shot action scene from recent times, do put it up. Am curious when was the last time this was done.
FWIW, I love the JOHN WICK aesthetic, which takes a middle route between chaos and choreographed. The way the cinematographer and stunt coordinators are in sync is just fucking incredible.
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hari prasad
May 9, 2023
Here’s one chaotic and a really well shot , cut action sequence from a recent movie.
Seeing this “unreal” fight scene was like a breath of fresh air since fight sequences in most Malayalam movies are shot in a believable manner.
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Bala
May 9, 2023
When you say ‘chaotic action scenes’, a couple come to mind, but they are not wars, just fight scenes. Uriyadi interval block, and jagame thanthiram’s fight scene in a parotta shop.
I feel the problem with PS2’s war scenes is that, we are not invested in the characters. Usually, in those scenes, there will be a beloved side kick who sacrifices their life to save the hero, or some personal scores settled, or at least, an invincible villain is slayed, etc. These may sound cheesy on paper, but when executed properly, will have the effect on audience. Here, the last war scene itself feels like an afterthought, with no real villain, and the conclusion already known.
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brangan
May 9, 2023
Bala: Here, the last war scene itself feels like an afterthought, with no real villain, and the conclusion already known.
True …
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brangan
May 9, 2023
But again, I am not talking about fight scenes or action blocks in a limited space, but WAR scenes. Have there been any that went against the TROY / GLADIATOR / etc. model?
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hari prasad
May 9, 2023
Does modern warfare counts?
If so , then I would submit this one that came way before Troy and Gladiator
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Rahini David
May 9, 2023
I personally like the “Show chaos instead of ‘choreography’” style. It made all the soldiers look like poor pawns with real life problems and real pain. It strongly gave the feeling of “every single person is a victim”.
I have always been immune to dishoom dishoom and just wait for them to be over and here I felt invested in what was happening.
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hari prasad
May 9, 2023
This , for me felt a bit chaotic and claustrophobic without the presence of any gimmickry.
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therag
May 9, 2023
As someone pointed out, the way the war was shot was not the problem. The war felt unnecessary and the consensus (even among non-book readers) is that the time could have been used better.
I know Mani is a Kurosawa stan, and that I should not expect the usual war scene. But I feel that the war scene in PS-2 was underwhelming even accounting for that. Completely drained of colour, extremely chaotic, no convincing reason as to why the war is being fought. That scene in “Ran” has so much colour, a verdant landscape playing host to different factions, cavalry, infantry, gunmen. This is more “organized chaos” and I totally buy it.
The war sequences in PS-1 were also much much better. The first sequence was just right in terms of length and intensity and the post interval sequence on the beach in Sri Lanka was also done very well. Perhaps MR had to make some compromises due to the pandemic and lockdowns.
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MANK
May 9, 2023
Welles’ “Chimes of Midnight” which inspired the battle scenes of Mel Gibson’s “Braveheart”
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MANK
May 9, 2023
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abishekspeare
May 9, 2023
I feel the issue with the action were two fold:
If you are focusing (and delivering) on the emotional/relationships aspect of the sprawling mega-story with multiple characters, why devote this much time for action scenes which don’t contribute to the emotion/ relationships? Why not use that time for showing us more about the people (for example, linger more on the Sundara Chozha- Mandakini moment, spend more time for the shock post Aditha’s death to sink in)
The pre-interval block spends around ten minutes showing us:
– Assassins dressed up as monks trying to attack PS. Nothing happens here. The monks just walk past them
– Karthi and Jayaram trying to deal with the other Pandyas. Some random bit where PS deals with an elephant/mahout danger
The maximum inference that a viewer can gather here is “PS is smart and wise. He chooses the more peaceful, calm approach”. Most people just see a ‘pointless’ action block here. The only thing that interested me here is MR using an action scene to establish a character trait, i think that’s very uncommon
The action choreography in itself was mostly uninspired. When you are showing chaos in war scenes, it might work for a short time, but when the approach is followed throughout the two movies for long scenes, it transitions into “random people are fighting, just give me the end result” . Other than the two major war scenes, there was no need to ‘show chaos’. Even the one vs many fight of Karthi lacks any originality and energy. Action scenes work based on moments of thrill and energy (a punch, a slice, nothing registers here)
So if you are giving me a 10-min war scene after the pre-climax, and if you are choosing it over a non-action scene, at least give me something entertaining and impactful
A total of 20 mins or so is spent in the pre-interval scene + climax war. Imagine this time used for more scenes about Vandhiyathevan-Kundavai, or to even show us the twist in the book(at least in part)
I’ve never felt action to be that great in any MR movie barring exceptions like Nayagan. Maybe this is something he can work on in the upcoming movie with KH
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vijay
May 9, 2023
Tamil cinema itself lacks imaginative action choreography and editing. Its the same old time-slicing and other stuff used since early 2000s..and that translates to war scenes also..Lokesh Kanakaraj is overhyped in this department, the few scenes that I have watched left me highly unimpressed.
Even the likes of LOTR and Gladiator are 2-decades old now..are they still the benchmark for our industry guys?
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vijay
May 9, 2023
“Maybe this is something he can work on in the upcoming movie with KH”
if Mani really wants to do an ‘action’ film, a 68-yr old KH looking more like Rajdeep Sardesai with a paunch, should be the last choice in that..It may be more of a drama with some action in it..Dont think Mani would go full Lokesh kanakaraj mode. Plus depends on how Indian-2 fares at the BO.
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ara108vind
May 9, 2023
Alvarkadiyan nambi karthi comedy scenes looked so outdated ..the secret passage way palace scene should be made more interesting and adventurous…the pandyas group Kishore looked so childish…
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ara108vind
May 9, 2023
The revenant movie has a well choreographed beginning fight scene
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Aman Basha
May 9, 2023
Kamal was really good in Vikram, that he so gracefully looked his age unlike some of his contemporaries was a plus. Lokesh really brought out the cool and charismatic Kamal after a long, long time. I rewatch Kamal chewing gum and driving away on his bike at the interval god knows how many times.
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MANK
May 9, 2023
I wish Mani had gone all the way in creating this ‘Period Drama’ by avoiding war scenes completely. . That would have been really brave and something new. Something like “Gone with the wind” where we only see bits and pieces of war entering the narrative (mainly soldiers going off to war and the aftermath of battles) but there is hardly any staging of a full scale American civil war battle. Though I understand that with some 500 Crs riding on this one it would have been impossible.
As for Mani’s Action choreography, his best remains the Indiana Jones-Sholay inspired action scenes in “Thiruda Thiruda”- the train-bound climax is phenomenal. I can’t believe that the same director created the terrible war\action scenes in this film. But signs were already there with that rather unintentionally funny Pow-escape and chase sequence in “Kattru Veliyadai.” I think we discussed that at the time itself.
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brangan
May 9, 2023
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MANK
May 9, 2023
Brangan, I think the battle scenes in Mel Gibson’s “Braveheart” was perhaps the last time the kind of chaotic war scenes you mentioned was seen in a film. Gibson was inspired by Orson Welles’ battle scenes in “Chimes of Midnight.” I posted video links to both but they seem to have gone into moderation.
Lokesh Kanakaraj is overhyped in this department, the few scenes that I have watched left me highly unimpressed.
Absolutely true, not only is his action choreography unoriginal, they go on far too long and is exhausting. Well, Shankar used to be a really good choreographer of action scenes. I like all the action scenes in “Gentleman”, still do. Also “Endhiran,” even if the action scenes are high on VFX, the action scenes , especially the climax, was pretty inventive.
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Madan
May 9, 2023
“Absolutely true, not only is his action choreography unoriginal, they go on far too long and is exhausting.” – It’s the Insta Reel style of choreography which clearly you, I, vijay share a dislike for.
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hari prasad
May 9, 2023
The 90s Vijayakanth cop flicks had some really wild , imaginative action sequences like these
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vijay
May 9, 2023
On Gibson, Even some of those action pieces in Apocalypto(not exactly war scenes though) were pretty good..that long chase after the central character escapes from his captors and then when he picks them off one by one like in ‘Predator” using his guile ..has there been any other historical action thrillers like that one?
In Braveheart, the british actor(forget his name) who played Longshanks was terrific..you need such a villian to root against in war scenes..
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Anand
May 9, 2023
Apart from showing Madhurantakan’s character arc, I think they wanted the war scene to show that AMV “winning’ the crown himself rightfully rather than being passed to him on account of AK death. This is highlighted by Sundara Chozhar during coronation ceremony too. Though the camera shake tested eyes a bit , I didnt feel it was long, they finished it at the right moment and moved to coronation scene. The “sacrifice” is supposedly unique, may be Bharatha placing Rama’s sandal in Ramayana was the pioneer. We have seen many rulers up north killing brothers and prisoning father for the sake of power. This needed to be showcased.
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Anand
May 9, 2023
@BR – Yes that “Soozhanathu Yudham, Soodanathu Ratham” re-tuned piece in the pre-interval scene still keep playing on my mind. It was eerie and gave ambience to that momment.
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Aman Basha
May 9, 2023
Thiruda Thiruda has the best action in all of Mani Ratnam’s movies because Mani Ratnam collaborated with Ram Gopal Varma on it. (The train scene in Thiruda Thiruda and even the plot is a spin on Kshana Kshanam).
Same way Gaayam is the most sentimental of RGV’s films because RGV directed Mani’s screenplay.
Wonder why other filmmakers can’t collaborate this way.
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hari prasad
May 9, 2023
Shankar’s movie with Ramcharan has Karthik Subbaraj write the story and screenplay.
Super Deluxe had 3 established filmmakers collaborate with Kumararaja , Thiruchitrambalam was co-written by Dhanush and Mithran Jawahar , The director of Jil Jung Juk Dheeraj Vaidy and Rathnakumar , the director of Meyaadha Maan are assisting Lokesh in Leo , Uriyadi Vijaykumar wrote the dialogues for Soorarai Pottru for Sudha and on Rajini’s insistence , KS Ravikumar has been alleged to have supervise the direction of Nelson in Jailer.
I think nowadays filmmakers have no problem collaborating with their contemporaries and are more than ready to do so.
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Aman Basha
May 9, 2023
@hari prasad: “KS Ravikumar has been alleged to have supervise the direction of Nelson in Jailer.”-The guy whose last movie was Ruler supervising is very reassuring 🙂 Feel bad for Nelson now.
The rest, yes, but except Super Deluxe, none of these are as big as RGV & MR collaborating for two movies, is it?
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hari prasad
May 9, 2023
Big or small directors doesn’t matter , its really great to see them all acknowledge their contemporaries and collaborate with them.
BTW , Karthik Subbaraj is producing a movie that has Baddy’s favorite , Hari as its director and Vishal playing the hero 😉
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MANK
May 9, 2023
Vijay , the actor who played Longshanks was Patrick McGoohan. He was the lead in the long running British TV series, “The Prisoner.” I wrote about him here, wrt his mesmerizing performance in “Ice Station Zebra
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therag
May 10, 2023
After watching it a second time, I now feel very strongly that the Parthibendhiran angle should have been left out of the film. And the war scene felt like a sloppy remake of the scene from “Ran” shared above. I guess we know what Mani was going for. Safe to say he failed to achieve it.
But kudos to the screenwriters (and Mani of course) for getting everything else right. Even the appearance of Mandakini Devi to save Sundara Chola felt right to me this time. She is mentioned several times by several people and the moment of the resurfacing is built up to. Nandhini’s arc was perfect.
All in all, PS-1 and PS-2 will make a fantastic double feature. I wonder if they could make a cut of the film that avoids the war scene at the end.
BR, could we have a session with the screenwriters of PS?
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vijay
May 10, 2023
MANK, thats cool. Something with these British actors in american films..a long noteworthy list
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brangan
May 11, 2023
Just saw this piece about the costumes/jewellery in PS. Some interesting stuff here:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.filmcompanion.in/amp/story/interviews/tamil-interview/ponniyin-selvan-movie-mani-ratnam-decoding-the-costume-and-jewellery-aesthetics-of-ponniyin-selvan-i
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vijay
May 11, 2023
as if the soundtrack wasnt underwhelming enough Rahman seems to be in some hot waters over Veera raaja veera’s alleged plagiarism from a Dhrupad..even that chinnanjiru nilave’s lyrics for stanzas and the meter reminded me heavily of (bharathis’s) chinnan chiru kiliye kannamma..and you wonder what MR/ARR cooked up for over a year on this soundtrack..
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Anu Warrier
May 11, 2023
@Vijay, I don’t think ‘alleged’ is the word. It’s ridiculously similar, so much so that he can’t even claim to have been ‘inspired’ by it. It’s a straight lift.
I’ve lost a lot of respect for Rehman because the team went on an offensive denying it. All he needed to do was to give credit.
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Aman Basha
May 11, 2023
https://theprint.in/features/did-ar-rahman-lift-dagars-shiva-stuti-for-ps2-veera-raja-a-new-music-ownership-battle/1543375/
Seems like it’s lot more complicated than just lifting. But yes, Veera Raja Veera is the one song I liked here so this makes even PS 2 an even more underwhelming album.
As I mentioned earlier, Rahman’s best is not with Ratnam sir anymore though the duo may not be consciously aware of the same. With KH234, I hope the old Kamal who was alleged to be very interfering returns as him and ARR seem to have a new rapport that’ll help the music be fresh.
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Madan
May 11, 2023
vijay/Aman Basha: This was kind of what I was driving at in the other threads and lifting from an old song makes this album even worse. My point was that for all the visible bonhomie between the two and their being a mutual admiration club, their albums have been going down post Guru at least (and peaked with Alai Payuthey).
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therag
May 12, 2023
From the article, it doesn’t look even ARR is claiming he got inspired by it, rather the song is clearly in that style. The point of contention here seems to be whether to credit the tradition or credit the family known for upholding the tradition. ARR went with the former which seems right to me.
I don’t know enough about Hindustani music to comment really but this is one of the clear perils of classical music – there’s no copyright and usually you can never clearly establish that a style is your own because the traditions are incredibly old. So anyone can perform a Lalgudi Thillana, it’s not even mandatory to mention his name although people do so out of respect.
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Akhilan
May 12, 2023
Madan, completely agree regarding Guru and Alaipayuthey. I though did feel like OKK briefly brought back that old spark between the two, which had gone missing for so long. But since then, it’s gone AWOL once again, and the less said about the music in PSI and PSII the better. Rather forgettable (for me anyway).
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Madan
May 12, 2023
Akhilan: OKK was a bit of a return to form, though not quite at the level of Guru either. But at least better than the outings in between and after.
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Spandana
May 12, 2023
Haven’t read the books. I gather the gist of the baby swapping plotline. I get the Doylist reason to explain why a ‘traitor’ was made king. I don’t understand the Watsonian reason though. Why does Sembiyan need a healthy baby if she never intended for him to be in line of succession (due to him not being a Chola)? That only caused jealousy and resentment in him. If her own baby survived, he would have been made king. Else her line would end and Sundar Chola’s line would continue. Which she supported anyway by sidelining Madurantakan. Why even adopt him then? Is there an explanation for this in the books?
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Akhilan
May 12, 2023
Yeah Madan, totally my sentiments as well. I should’ve added brought back “a little bit” of the old spark. But yeah you get the idea.
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Jay S
May 12, 2023
As the days go by since I watched PS 2, I am a little more disappointed and a lot angrier every day 🙂 Has Mani ratnam read the same ponniyin selvan that I have? Why can’t we trust and treat our source stories with the respect LOTR makers have awarded to a mere fantasy epic. Kalki was a genius who used poonguzhali and sendan amudhan to give the ‘common man and woman’ the fairy tale ending. Seriously, otherwise who truly cares which chozha uncle or brother gets to rule. It’s a trivial power skirmish in the larger scheme of things. In which character should I even be invested in in PS2… Do we all look like such idiots who will buy any story fragment they throw at us just because they make us believe in the promotions that it is the biggest and best movie ever made using the name of the eternally loved epic historical fiction?
I have always wondered – why don’t I revisit Mani ratnam movies as much as I revisit KB’s, Kamal’s (especially and very frequently), and a few others even if I enjoyed them originally (am the biggest fan of Dil SE). It is because in his own words – ‘he is a practical man’. In his movies, he puts in equal amounts of daring effort with fearful compromises. In the end, I guess I sniff the fear and the compromises linger after the initial awe.. I am looking at you – all the needless war scenes of PS.
Last but not the least, did anyone tell ar Rahman that remembering Bharathiyar of the 20th century in the middle of a 10th century epic does nothing to keep us in that world they claim they strived so hard to create.
Am reading the book again just to cleanse my brain after the movie. Not at all sorry for the rant 🙂 kudutha paisaku need the history of the incident and the geography of accident – mainly delivery of the promise of ponniyin selvan.
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MANK
May 12, 2023
Somehow I feel Kamal would have been much better suited to bring the complex, plot-heavy PS story to screen. Mani’s discomfort at having to tackle so much plot is very visible- especially in this phase where he is going for purer and purer cinematic exercises; too much plot is always a hindrance for his current mood, his movies since “Iruvar” has thin plots; even Iruvar was rather loosely plotted for such an epic story. That’s why , for me, PS1 is a much much better movie than PS2. the first half or 3\4th of PS1 worked superbly because it’s much more loosely plotted and the story is mostly moving forward- like a road\chase movie, the narrative basically following Karthi’s journey from north to south.
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Aman Basha
May 12, 2023
All that needs to be said is that Ponniyin Selvan 2 must be the only sequel ever that grossed less than its Part I, that too with the highest gap being in Tamil Nadu. So this time, the excuse of non Tamils don’t get it is also not there.
I also don’t think this will be held in high regard by cinephiles or MR fans with time. Remember how David Lynch’s Dune was treated before the new one came out? I liked Part 2 better than Part 1.
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Madan
May 12, 2023
Well, one thing I had not been so happy about in going to Africa was I would be missing PS-2. I will still catch it on whatever OTT on my annual leave or if I get * print *, but going by these reviews, I won’t have to rue it.
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Bala
May 12, 2023
Unlike Bahubali, LOTR, etc, in case of PS1/2 i am not able to think of them as two independent movies, and evaluate each one seperately. I think of both together as one movie.. And hence some compromises made in the second part seem to make some parts of PS1 pointless. For eg, if Madurantakan is not pandiya as per book, why is Nandini even trying to influence Periya Pazhuvettaraiyar to make him king. When asked ‘will aditha karikaalan come’, why is Nandini says ‘he will come because it was me who called”. Then, she could have called much before and killed him, why so much drama about marrying PP, influencing him etc? In book, all these made sense because she was trying to make madurantakan king. Here, it didn’t add up.
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Raghu Narayanan
May 12, 2023
@ Bala: Good points! Somewhere down the line after I had watched the movie, an outlandish thought kept refusing to go away, that, could the entire Madhurantakan line – not being a Pandya guy but the real one, be an after thought after the PS 1 release? Maybe quite an insensible thought, but nevertheless, the sloppy construct of the character in PS-2 is not helping me to convince that my thought does not make sense.
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Raghu Narayanan
May 12, 2023
@ Spandana: (Spoiler ahead, just in case) In the book, Kandaraditta Thevar, is neither interested in ascending the throne nor in getting married. However, quite late in his life he meets Sembiyan Madevi who is equally a Shiva devotee like himself and they get married. Still Kandaradittar is not interested in having a child. Again, it is Sembian Madevi who wants to have a child, and so he acquiesces. By this time, he has ascended the throne, albeit without any interest because his elder brother Rajaditta dies in battle. Sembian Madevi’s child is still born. At the same time, Mandakini /Oomai Rani, who is a sister of Sembian Madevi’s attendant and who stays with her, delivers twins and upon delivering them, abandons them and goes away. At this point in time, Sembian Madevi swaps the one twin which is a boy with her baby and this is boy is the Madhurantakan in the story. However, when Sembian Madevi’s attendant takes the baby to bury it secretly, it comes to life and that baby grows up with her as Sendhan Amudhan. When Sembian Madevi comes to know of this, the swapped baby is already announced to the world so there is no going back. Therefore she asks her attendant to bring up the child. When Kandaradittar is lying in his death bed, Sembian Madevi reveals these secrets to him, and he says that she should ensure that the swapped baby must not be allowed to ascend the throne, and must be brought up to be a Shiva bhakt like the both of them. I hope I got this straight as far as I can remember, and also hope this answers your question.
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Bala
May 12, 2023
However, after seeing the movie, i have created my own version of history 😀 I feel Parthibendra pallavan’s theory should have been the right one. ie, Periya pazhuvettaraiyar, Arulmozhi, Vandhiyathevan and madurantakan (uttama chozhan) should have teamed up, and conspired to kill Aditha karikaalan. That’s why Arulmozhi and madurantakan came to a deal on power sharing, ie, first madurantakan becomes king, but will not pass on the throne to his kids, but give it to arulmozhi. madurantakan should have had the support of Periya pazhivettarayar, kaalamukas etc, which is why arulmozhi couldn’t take him down.
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Pirhaksar
May 12, 2023
I actually liked ps2 more than ps1, by a distance. Having not read the books, I can’t feel as offended as some seem to be here (some comments are hilariously over the top). In any case me thinks (as an above average movie goer relative to BR or some of the long timers whose views have taught me a lot here), MR is allowed some creative liberty when making a 5 part series into a 2 part movie. I have always felt this could have been like GoT with 6/7 seasons of 8 episodes on prime or flix with large global reach. Music too worked very well for me, again do not understand the criticism here. I saw some YT commenters saying Mani should have gone with Anirudh, so there is that – to each his own I guess. There is a fine balance between commercial reach and sticking to 10th century styles assuming any of us actually know the music of that era. I loved Aga Naga and rest of the songs are situational and fit well in the movie. On the song plagiarism row, looks like they credited the Veera song, @therag seems to have articulated the issue better than I understood. In any case I hope it is clarified by ARR or his team and if it indeed is a lift without due credits then he should apologize and accept the criticism.
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Spandana
May 12, 2023
@Raghu Narayanan
“Still Kandaradittar is not interested in having a child. Again, it is Sembian Madevi who wants to have a child, and so he acquiesces.”
So, Sembian Madevi wanted a child. But her husband did not and HE was against Madurantakan becoming king, not her.
Got it, Thanks!
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Anu Warrier
May 13, 2023
@therag: that particular song was composed in the Dhrupad tradition by the Dagar family. It was lifted lock, stock and barrel. Saying that he was ‘inspired by the tradition’ is ridiculous to anyone who understands the nuances of classical music. And even otherwise, just listen to the two songs back to back and you will see what I mean.
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Maru
May 13, 2023
I think plagiarism charges in music can be complicated particularly in the Indian Classical tradition where 1. compositions aren’t copyrighted, 2. musicians routinely build on earlier work and 3. differences in raaga phrases can be subtle. It’s commerce that seems to have thrust this case into the limelight – the song is in a blockbuster film that has made gobs of money.
For a film that’s been so meticulously researched, it’s decidedly odd that the ‘Dargavani’ dhrupad tradition was credited instead of ‘Dagarvani’ . That definitely seems slapdash, like an afterthought. The entire team could’ve handled this a lot better.
This discussion gets into the weeds for the composition for anyone interested
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Anand
May 13, 2023
@Madan – Ps2 for the most parts is well crafted, except flr the last 20 mins where it might feel rushed. please go for it.
@Maru – I secind your opinion. Both movie as well as music deserves more love than criticism. The reason why Sembian Madevi doesn’t want crown for her son is explained in PS1 itself , Kandaradithyar wanted his son to be brought up as Shiva Bhkat and she has propmised him , simple.
Reg. music, there have been many instancs in the past kritis of famous compoers have been used albeit with different arrangement, instruments , raagam, manodharmam etc, which brings new dimensions to those. Many film composers have done that, Here to ARR has added orchestration, vridham at the beginning of the song , portions in the middle as well as the vaazhiya natramizh piece in the end , all make it a whole new song. Also he has given credits to Dagarvani traditional Dhrupad as seen in the lyrical video. When PS1 came , many felt the music was not classical enough to suit this film, in Ps2, he has composed based on classical format, used hymns (Thiruppavai, Adi Sankara’s Sivoham, Sanga paadal Ilaiyor Soodar etc. but there are people asking why not Anirudh (in social media)? This doesn’t seem to be a valid argument. Finally it boils down to individual like and prejudices.
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Jay S
May 13, 2023
I read some discussion here about the war scene making and critiquing Lokesh’s stunts… I wonder as well how Lokesh is going to sustain as an action movie director if the overall stunt quality in the industry doesn’t improve – where we have five men and still fight duals.
That apart, I remember what Lokesh once told aspiring film students – ‘Get your writing right! Audience will even forgive making shortcomings but there is no excuse to not tweak your writing to be nice and taut. And he does that -in his movies, the action holds because the writing is rock solid.
Discussing the shortcomings in the war scene making in PS(especially 2) avoids the elephant in the room which is that the writing does not hold them up. It is heartbreaking that MR felt the need to include war scenes only because he thought they would be popular and Bahubali had them without really considering the movie he has chosen to make… If he had other story related solid reasons, I am very sorry that the screenplay is not showing them to me.
Will continue some book related thoughts in a different comment.
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Jay S
May 13, 2023
Like MANK mentioned about getting rid of the war scenes, another reason the war scenes take away from the soul of the movie is that – the book’s charm is the thrill, adventure, political intrigue, the map making and the king making that happens without bloodshed, without even action.
Surprisingly, the book is more visual than the movie. When arunmozhi lands in nagarkovil, it would be in the aftermath of a storm. And yet, there is a celebration the next day. What simple lives they must have led, that they can pick themselves up and host a feast the day after a storm. (With the fallen coconut and plantains). The war scenes money would have been well spent in these scenes instead. Kalki provides not just a location for each scene but a weather description, a specific river, a very specific time of the day – everything really adds up to create the experience. If I remember right, the meeting of Nandini with the abathudavigal happens at night. A clandestine meeting, the dark of the night, the tied up vandiyathevan…. The magic is all right there.. The visual cinematic elements. IF you are changing a classic, you better be sure to get it right and all the loose ends tied up.
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hari prasad
May 14, 2023
Remember when Vetrimaaran said in a 2018 interview that the plotlines he wrote for the Vada Chennai story helped him write Pollathavan , Aadukalam and Visaranai.
Like this , a lot of the plotlines of Ponniyin Selvan helped Mani shape up his movies like for example , the awkward relationship between Veera and a married Ragini from Raavanan is a riff on the Adithan – Nandhini Big Pazhu mams angle without the childhood cho chweet kadhal ,
The destructive nature of the love between Adhithan and Nandini reminded me of Dil Se ,
The Cholas venturing to Lanka and seeking help from Poonguzhali to meet Arunmozhi brings to mind Kannathil Muthamittal ,
The hyperlink narrative structure – Aayutha Ezhuthu ,
The doomed friendship between Adhithan and Vandhiyathevan where one of them loses his life and one of them marrying a woman from the friend’s family post his death brings up Thalapathi.
Adhithan’s hunger for power and authority brings up Iruvar and Guru.
Madurantakan secretly having a thing for the throne and the whole damn storyline of PS – Chekka Chivantha Vaanam and so on.
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hari prasad
May 14, 2023
The fun , flirtatious thing between Vandhiyathevan and Kundhavai – Every Mani saar love story ever.
So , this shows how interested he was in Ponniyin Selvan.
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tamil thanos
May 19, 2023
IMO, this is the best WAR scene that I have come across. It takes Chaos instead of choreography approach but it drags you in and slaps you with all the reality – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz4SBfBtXs0
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Deepika
May 20, 2023
When is the movie coming on OTT?
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