APRIL 8 – Regular readers probably know, by now, that I don’t respond too well to Ilayaraja’s post-90s output. In a sense, I still am interested in what he’s up to. I still make it a point to listen to his songs. And I still feel a strange sort of pride when something like Aadi thirathannil (from the Malayalam film Bhagyadevata) sneaks up on me like a joyous summer shower. It’s as if I, somehow, were personally vindicated in still following this great, great musician. (Though, in full confession mode, I must admit I’m not a tenth the adherent of his, today, as I was in the early days. But that’s a different kind of bitty rumination.)
But — again, as I’ve discussed many times earlier — the problem I have with his current output is that of his sound, which, to me, is akin to watching Picasso paint Guernica with a crayon or a ball-point pen. (I take this example because it’s a complex piece of art.) The outlines may be the same. The colours, even, could be similar. But the texture, the tone, the voice, is something else. And I want the oils back, the rich oils. Would I have faced this problem if Ilayaraja had always used a ball-point pen? I don’t know, but I’d wager that I might have never become a fan in the first place, let alone a fanatic of his early work.
And when friends point out that I’m missing something, I simply reply that this has given me an opportunity to delve into his songs in other languages from the period I love — like this exquisite oil from Chettukinda Pleader (Telugu), with nary a trace of crayon or ball-point pen. Just look at how the downcast violin passes the baton, so seamlessly, to the upbeat flute in the first interlude. And how exquisitely SPB sings, especially this opening portion of the charanam/antara, between 1:35 and 1:40. (I have no clue what the hero and heroine are up to, though. Lost in translation?)
Anyway, the reason for this particular bit of rumination is that I keep getting asked what my favourite Ilayaraja song is, and I have no answer. (I mean, how can anyone who’s grown up with the man’s music, in The Greatest Decade Ever, pick just one?) But the following song is tethered to a howlarious memory, and is therefore something of a special favourite. (It sounds annoyingly sharp here, though, possibly due it being remastered, or some such thing. I couldn’t locate another version, with the video.)
The memory attached, courtesy my own personal Pensieve, is this: In the old days when I was a struggling writer, accepting any random commission that would fetch me a couple of bucks (I even wrote for Sourcing Hardware, go figure), I went to Ooty to write a brochure about a school. We were picked up by this guy in his car, and the moment he switched on the tape player, this song came on. He looked at me and said, very patronisingly, “It’s an old Tamil song.” For some reason, I got extremely annoyed, and I shot back, “It’s from Nandu. 1981, Ilayaraja. Malaysia Vasudevan.” I’m not kidding, the man almost drove into a ditch.
I don’t know why, I give off this excessively Peter vibe even without opening my mouth. What is it, I wonder? And it’s a great, cheap thrill to put these people in their rightful place (which, as the Stones so eloquently said, is Under My Thumb) and confound their stereotypical expectations.
PS: This, by the way, isn’t my favourite song from Nandu. It’s Manjal veyyil — by that time the sprightly bursts of the veena are sucked into the insistent churn of the cello, in the prelude, I’m already weak in the knees. (How delectably soft his sounds were then, as if wrapped in a casing of velvet, as opposed to the sharp output from the studios these days.) Oh, and this soundtrack also has Kaise kahoon, which I talked about in some old music review, I can’t recall now. Again, couldn’t locate a video.
PPS: I’m into a mini-project these days, trying to locate the exact point I started having problems with Ilayaraja’s sound. I vaguely know it’s the nineties onwards, but I’m trying to zone in on a song, or an album, where he stopped using a whole host of instruments and everything, gradually, gave way to wan approximations on a synth, aided by technicians who clearly aren’t up to snuff in sound engineering. (Don’t kill me now. It’s just my opinion.)
Baradwaj Rangan 
Shankar
April 10, 2010
Kaise Kahoon is a favorite of mine…here’s the song (no video though)
Baddy, we need to have a BR on BGMs too…that’s another area where this great man has excelled.
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Mambazha Manidhan
April 10, 2010
Is the Angadi/ Mundhinam writeup coming this week ?
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Shankar
April 10, 2010
The sound of most music directors nowadays is sharp…not really velvety soft. The reason is simply because they have stopped using real instruments and musicians. This has also resulted in the sheer unavailability and plunging quality of the session players…most have gone on to other careers since it’s no longer lucrative to be one.
Also, I have read in numerous interviews given by artists from those days that the camaraderie, team work and cooperation that was present while recording live with musicians and singers has vanished now. (Eg: SPB and Janaki egging each other on in a song with all their “extras”). Nowadays, everything is cut & paste. That does get reflected in the sound of today…just my opinion and experience.
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Anand
April 10, 2010
BR: Lovely!! I am hearing Alli thantha for the first time..can you believe it? Looks like I need to discover more gems. The second interlude was fabulous.
PS: Looking forward to your mini project results.
PPS: BTW, what do you think abot the sounds in Paa and Cheeni Kum?
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brangan
April 10, 2010
Shankar: I’m not sure you and I are talking about the same thing when it comes to “sharpness.” This needs to be an over-beer conversation, I guess 🙂 Yeah, and that BGM thing too, I can write about here. Among many other things. I have a feeling Bitty Ruminations is mostly going to be about music. As He said in Guna, summa aruvi maadhiri kotta pogudhu 🙂
Anand: See, among recent IR songs, I liked Mudhi mudhi, because it’s in that jazz-pop mode and it lent itself easily to the sounds he’s working with. But I haven’t gone back to CK after a few initial listens. I mean, when the originals are there, why seek these out? 🙂
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Shankar
April 10, 2010
Baddy, I do know what you are saying when it comes to “sharp” with Raja’s music. You do mean more about how things flow rather than how staccato it is now…Certainly, it needs be a conversation over beer! 🙂
My point was more about where things stand in the music industry…
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Venkatesh
April 10, 2010
@Shankar: “I have read in numerous interviews given by artists from those days that the camaraderie, team work and cooperation that was present while recording live with musicians and singers has vanished now.”
I was lucky to attend BGM recording sessions in Kodandapani Studios in Kodambakam for about 2 months in the early 90’s. The session musicians even back then would say the same thing – “Idhu ellam summa ottu velai” – ( this is just a cut and paste job ) , apparently it all boils down to economics.
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Aditya Pant
April 10, 2010
BR: I think you talked about Kaise Kahoon in the CK music review. It has been quite a favourite of mine since I read about it in your review and sought it out on the Net. BTW, who was the lyricist of the song?
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Deepauk M
April 10, 2010
Finally! Do look for the gems in Malayalam as well in the eighties – Mangalam Nerunnu, Poomukhapadiyil Ninneyum Kaathu, Sandhyakku Virinja Poovu etc…A favorite past time of mine is trying to intercut between different parts of Mizhiyil Meen Pidanju and Vellai Pura onRu on my player.
While agree with the nature of Raaja’s sound just not cutting it in the latter half of the nineties, two of his greatest albums Hey Raam and Guru (Malayalam) came in this period. It would seem that a lack of inspiration, along with the obvious economic constraints, are the real issue. For some reason I cannot shake the feeling that the sound we lament is borne of a sense of disillusionment.
I am going to take this opportunity to bring to people’s attention Thattaaram MozhiyammA from Guru (Malayalam). It is simply one of my favorite favorite greatest discoveries from my excavations of Raaja’s music. It simultaneously explains life and removes all meaning from existence for me (as in ithukku mEla ennadA irukka mudiyin…).
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brangan
April 10, 2010
Aditya Pant: Must be the singer PB Sreenivas, if I can venture a guess. He was something of a de facto Hindi lyricist, those days.
Question for you: As someone who came to IR’s music from a “northern” perspective, what did you think of the taan-murki equivalents in this song? In the sense of, did you appreciate it as a “Hindi song” or as a “nice song that just happens to be written in Hindi.” Not that one is superior or anything, but just curious.
Deepauk M: Oh, Guru I think everyone has listened to. It was a much publicised album, and there was a lot of print about it too. I’m talking about the slightly older ones like Atharvam and such.
So you think the sound is a function of disillusionment, huh? Care to elaborate? As in, he’s tired or something?
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ramesh
April 10, 2010
I thought nandu songs were overrated. sply kaise kahun(which bhupender seems to have given the sarcastic treatment to , when asked by illayaraja’s gang “hows the song?” bhupendar is reputed to have said :”hehehe” “no..how’s the song” “hehehehe”)
The mahendran film that excels for me from ilayaraja was the reincarnation film “azagiya Kanne” (Johnny is a close second) each song (except the dappanguthu song.. was like a panchaloha idol. (sply when seen within the context of the film)
Illayaraja lost it at about the time Uma ramanan came on board with the “puthiya poo ithu”..etc. for a while you’d listen for orchestration and only get “vaa vennila”…tabla..and then very leniar sound. it was as if he was turning back from the rajaparvai style orchestration and the baroque depth that charecterized his early films. but he would still surprise you with one of these :
or these..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6383599793523625904#
so you’d still listen …
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Aditya Pant
April 10, 2010
BR: I am just an ordinary music lover and don’t know much about the technicalities. To answer your question, I don’t think I considered this songs as a “Hindi song”. Although the mukhda-antara structure is the same, it sounds very different in terms of notes progression and movement from one note to another. The way Bhupinder and Janaki render the same lines also differs… Janaki brings in a lot of nuances that I would call the Carnatic influence (eg. the way the both render the word ‘Dekhe” in the first interlude). In short, you could say I appreciated it as a “nice song that just happens to be in Hindi”
BTW, the line ‘Kaee Gulon Ka Hai Chaman…” reminded me a lot of how Salil Chowdhury would structure his melody lines.
P.S. I asked about the lyricist because the lyric is the only thing I dislike about this song!
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Aditya Pant
April 10, 2010
sorry I meant the first Stanza, not interlude.
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brangan
April 11, 2010
ramesh: For me, it would be Metti, if only just for the prelude of Sandha kavigal paadidum… And you have a problem with Uma Ramanan? Yes, shes a very limited singer, but she always sang well for Raja (as opposed to, say, the shrilly nasal Jency). Even the latter-day ones. Have you heard Un ennam enge enge (thambi Pondatti) or ooradangum ssamathile (Pudhupatti Ponnuthayi) or Undhanin paadal (Raakaayi Kovil)? She’s always on pitch and I don’t mind her timbre either.
Aditya Pant: Yes, that’s why I asked. The embellishments at “sapne” and “dekhe” arevery Carnatic — not the khayal style at all. As I said that’s not a problem, but I just wanted to see if you felt the same way. And yes, bad lyrics 🙂
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ramesh
April 11, 2010
?! no no I have a problem with a phase of illayaraja songs that prominently featured uma ramanan, when IR seems to have concluded that the voice is an effective substitute for orchestration and depth.
to illustrate(without using uma ramanan,
This was SPB in the orchestral phase
same spb same illayaraja no orchestration
see how the voice needs to carry more melody?
to use an IR ARR comparison ( 🙂 )
Watch the way the voice controls and owns the melody here
as opposed to here where the melody moves between the orchestra and the voice, as an interplay of themes?
nandu (to quote you secribing jenci anthony) had many vocal and orchestral passages where ilayaraja “mookala Azzuthufied” Ragam engeyo…Sounded somewhat labored to me. its like you cant create a masterpiece by saying “now Im going to write a masterpiece”. often this leads to something halfway between cute ideas and abominations, creatively. Im not saying nandu was this, I think it was OK, but that its not the great manna illayaraja seems to think it is. its awright.
Awesome cinematography of lucknow by ashok mitra (?) tho.
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vijay
April 11, 2010
IR’s old songs dubbed or remade in Hindi sound terrible. The worst experiment in recent times was aanandha raagam from Paneer pushpangal being remade in some RGV film. Oh these idiot directors…
Kaise kahoon sounds like it was conceived in Tamil and then dubbed into Hindi. IR’s roots were just strong.
Reg. sounds, even in md-90s, a couple of albums with synth domination showed a lot of promise- Paattu paadava, Chandralekha and a few other assorted songs. Not sure how much Karthik raja contributed here. But Arumbum thalire(Chandralekha), poongatrile from paattu paadava and vandhaal from Oru oorla oru rajakumari were IR’s glorious efforts in transitioning to the new era. But he just stopped abruptly in the tracks. And even as early as the late 80s there were quite a few cracks in the wall. The disinterest in rhythm arrangement, predictable rhythm patterns, some poor choice of singers(a constant bane for IR) and such.
In terms of painting a mood, bringing that abstract quality to a song, nothing could beat the consistency of his early 80s output.
Kaadhal ennum kovil – kazhugu, pani mazhai vizum-enakkaaga kaathiru, eera vizhi kaaviyangal, Poonthalir and so many other songs. That quality was slowly lost over a period of time.
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Shankar
April 11, 2010
Baddy, c’mon..Jency did sound good in some songs…I felt that she had an ideal voice in songs that depicted young love (Eg: Kadhal Oviyam from AO)…maybe it was the composition that really showcased it but that song is a favorite of mine. Jency did have a peculiar voice but I thought it fit the scene (Karthik & Radha) and mood quite admirably. Oh, the bass track is heavenly…
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Tambi Dude
April 11, 2010
I felt that the sound engineering of Mumbai express was damn good.
Rich as in natural sound and clear as in digital recording.
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Shankar
April 11, 2010
Similarly, “Ghanasyama” from Kochu Kochu Santhosangal was an awesome track…with the alternating western and tabla percussion…
Similarly “Sivakara Damaruka” was another nice track from the same film…
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Ramesh
April 11, 2010
“let me give you another example,
both these songs are classics, but what a difference”
and
the background score in the second is awesme, but subtly, now, just otthu to the voice, like it were a violin in a carnatic concert.
take how he handles simmendramadyamam:
This is ilayaraja(post simpification)
This is dakshinamurthy with (very carnatic) orchestration
see what i mean by ‘he lost faith in orchestration and depth?”
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hrishi
April 11, 2010
BR: here’s an idea for an interesting writeup. just like in sports / the corporate world, when people slip past their prime and their performance slips to an extent where one wonders, “what happened to him”? – the same is true of cinema right? especially directors (eg: kb/balu mahendra/mani ratnam) – where did the sensitivity and the imagination vanish? is this the same director who made that movie? the film world is littered with such examples…i got reminded of this in your recent review of a shyam benegal movie too!
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brangan
April 11, 2010
ramesh: Dude, leaving all the good songs in Metti, you pick on Ragam engeyo? 🙂 What next? You’re going to attack the album because of Kalyanam ennei mudikka? 🙂 It’s the *good* songs you should consider, no? But yes, the great orchestral era for this great man was the early eighties. After that, he might have expanded his orchestra in terms of “symphonic” sound, but that delicate interplay was decreasing. May be it’s time factors. Or may be he said, “I’ve done enough of that. Now let me do this.”
When people say IR and “orchestration,” they usually refer to the symphonic swells of Hey Ram and the like (which is awesome, no doubt) — but for me, the interludes of, say, Azhagu aayiram (ullasa paravaigal) is where I see a man breathing music. You know. When so many instruments (a piano here, a veena there) would contribute itty-bitty passages which would then become a breathtaking part of an organic whole, like so many colours blending into white light.
But that said, I do like the melodic phase too. And yes, Ashok Kumar and Balu Mahendra single-handedly changed what “photography” meant in Tamil cinema. You look at the “light” in their films, and you won’t mistake it for anyone else’s. Seen Pootaadha Pootukkal? Some shots are amazing even by today’s standards.
vijay: I don’t think this was a dubbed song. It was a straight-Hindi song in a Tamil movie, like Tu hai raja in VNS. Yeah, Kaadhal ennum kovil — such yearning in that song. Do you think it’s intentional that the mapping of the song’s pallavi brings to mind a gopuram (as in kovil – gopuram)? The staccato rise in Kaadahl… enuum… kovil… and then the staccato fall in katti… vaithen… nenjil… If you plot this on a score sheet, you get a gopuram 🙂 Regarding “That quality was slowly lost over a period of time.” It’s good, then, that he was always so prolific, no? Because even if you take just the early 80s, you’d still end up with hours and hours of great music. 🙂
Shankar: Sorry, with Jency, Mano, Arunmozhi and the likes, let’s agree to disagree 🙂 But the songs are awesome, I agree.
Tambi Dude: Ah, was wondering where you were… See, but that’s what I’m saying. That album is a jazz-dominated sound, and it clearly slots into his current choice of instruments.
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ramesh
April 11, 2010
Ok rangudu, I think both of us were confusing METTI and NANDU.
Metti had two songs in otthai koral (ragam engeyo and metti oli katthodu) and one passable song(Sandha kavithaigal) Nandu had three good -ish songs(which you consider all time classic ilayaraja ) : Alli thantha, kaise kahoon, manjal veyil..and that atrocious janaki pronounced quawwali.
The dude that cionematographed rajaparvai was a bangla cin. who also did nandu, if I recall correctly. forget his name…(wasnt ashok kumar, who did a few really good films with mahendran(nenjattai killathe etc)…
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Ramesh
April 11, 2010
http://www.musicplug.in/songs.php?movieid=3315
metti songs(metti oli is the classic orchestral illayaraja)
http://www.thiraipaadal.com/albums/ALBIRR00409.html
nandu sngs
http://www.musicplug.in/songs.php?movieid=7224
azagiya kanne songs
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raj
April 11, 2010
This is good but continue this
1. What is Rahman’s sound? Synth involved?
2. If so, what do you think of it – a.independently
b.in comparison to 80s sound of IR
3. If it is more likeable than 90s IR, then why? What exactly does Rahman do with synth that Raja isn’t able to? Replace Rahman with sankaran,egasaan and laayan and repeat steps 2 and 3
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Lakshman
April 11, 2010
I think Raja did really well in the Kannada Movie “Suryakanthi” especially the song “Mouni Naanu” sung wonderfully by Karthik.
Wonder why he needs a Bala to bring out the best of him in Tamil when he effortlessly creates lovely melodies in other languages like the title song of Mallepuvvu.
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Tambi Dude
April 11, 2010
“If it is more likeable than 90s IR, then why? What exactly does Rahman do with synth that Raja isn’t able to? Replace Rahman with sankaran,egasaan and laayan and repeat steps 2 and 3”
speaking for self, one reason why I don’t like post 90s IR output is that his style seemed outdated. I can’t explain why I *still* love to listen to his late 70s and early to mid 1980s songs (which had the same style), but can’t stand his post 90s songs which are simply continuation of the same style.
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raj
April 11, 2010
Yeah, I haven’t yet found anyone who could explain that. I was hoping baradwaj could.
Still, it should be relatively easier to explain the synth of rahman vs synth of raja. Where exactly is the former appealing while the latter does not. Also, to people who diss 90s Raja sound due to synth, how do they compare the 80s or 70s Raja sound to the “loveable” Rahman sound of 90s. Nobody really answers this because I guess nobody thinks that hard – it is just fashionable to say ir 90s sucks, rahman 90s great, without really explaining why. But I expect better of baradwaj.
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brangan
April 11, 2010
raj: Why are we bringing Rahman into this? Anyway, for the record, it took me a long, long time to warm up to Rahman as a “serious” musician (as opposed to a purveyor of pleasant synth-pop). If you remember, I didn’t place any song of Roja in my 15-year Rahman piece. That synth-type composition doesn’t work much for me.
BUT THAT SAID… Chinna chinna aasai is a bouncy song, with a (synth)reggae rhythm. The song doesn’t lose anything by being played out almost entirely on the synth because it’s a sweet trifle. You can do it in the synth from the Wonder Balloon studios that Rahman used to play when he was a kid.
But as Rahman’s sound became denser, I began to look at him seriously (this was around the Dil Se phase) — and he started using his tools more creatively, beyond the realm of “pleasant synth-pop” (no doubt with the collaboration of his cutting-edge crew). Just to clarify, this isn’t about Rahman versus Raja so much as H Sridhar versus whoever’s tinkering around with Raja’s notated arrangments. In other words, this isn’t about who’s the better musician (and you know I hate these comparisons), but whose OUTPUT sounds professional, well-engineered.
When Raja used the synth as part of an overall vision, say as part of the prelude of the mind-blowing Varuvaai anbe (Garjanai, which is a fantastic instance of gamakam-infused pop), it’s terrific. But when the entire song — the string sections, the percussion, the wind section — is approximated on a synth, the song suffers because Raja does not think in terms of bouncy pop songs like Chinna chinna aasai. (If he did, we’d smile and say ‘fine” and leave it.)
He’s a very classical composer, whose mind works through motifs and such, and when he “records” his songs this way, it sounds like Switched-on Bach, which at least I can’t take seriously. In the sense, it’s like a great script being compromised by a so-so production crew. The musical ideas are compromised by so-so programming/arrangements.
That said, why do the latter-day Rahman or S-E-L or almost anyone else succeed with artificial sounds? (Not always; Anbil avan fom VTV was too dhikchak, light-synth-y for my taste). It’s the engineering. It’s the attention paid to not just the composing but the DELIVERY of that promise. I’m sure the reason is because they can afford the best, and probably Raja cannot. But having decided to go the synth way, he should hire the right people, no? He can even ask Yuvan, whose synth-sound is so much “heavier”.
I mean, you yourself said in the comments to my Naan Kadavul music review: “Maadha Un kovilil is a waste of time because it doesnt update anything but lyrics and replacing S Janaki with Sadhana, and ofcourse tinny synth to replace the beautiful original ludes. Disappointing. Why couldnt they spend on an orchestra?” And, “here’s a phase in this where a simple combination of tabla and bells create an enchanting mode only to be crashed down by a thambalam-dropped-on-floor role used in SV Shekar stage dramas. It sums it up for me. This is indeed a fine album(not among the top 100 of Raja still a fine one) marred by some cheap synth sounds.”
That’s exactly what I’m saying too 🙂 It’s not the use of the synth. It’s the use of the synth in this tinny fashion.
Tambi Dude: I wouldn’t say style is a problem. A song is a set of melodic lines plus a set of arrangements. If both are good, why would you reject a song JUST BECAUSE it’s in the same style? What’s important is the IDEAS contained in the composition, right? Not to compare myself to a genius like Raja or anything, but would you stop reading me ten years hence just because I wrote this same way, even if I continued to bring out interesting POVs? Songs are like that, no?
When the “set of melodic lines plus a set of arrangements” have been good with 90s IR (say, Sithagathi pookkale, despite the synth-y percussions, or Velli nilave, again with a synth-y drive), I’ve continued to enjoy his songs. But IMO they are few and far between.
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Tambi Dude
April 11, 2010
“Tambi Dude: I wouldn’t say style is a problem. A song is a set of melodic lines plus a set of arrangements. If both are good, why would you reject a song JUST BECAUSE it’s in the same style? ”
I also feel that we associate a period of time with a style of song. Outstanding songs of Dastak (1971-Madan Mohan) , if composed today, would sound outdated. Very much like some of 70s films which were well made at that time looks outdated today (think of Arganteram vs Laaga Chuneri Mein Daag). Even that Hrishikesh Mukherjee’s film of late 1990s (some film starring Anil Kapoor and Juhi Chawla) suffered from the same fate.
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Shankar
April 11, 2010
All this talk of synth brought to my mind “Thamarai kodi”…:-)
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Shankar
April 11, 2010
vijay: another one I would add for the transition phase would be “Thendral vanthu” from Avathaaram…the musical ideas were so rich. I would have preferred real instruments for that song but the overall quality of the song compensated this for me.
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ramesh
April 11, 2010
Also they operated in vastly differrent commercial landscapes and business models. Raja began life making about a hundered films a year four songs per film. rahman made six films(six songs each) in his first year. that meant that while raja could afford to experiment creatively and use all his reportoire to compose tunes, rahman had to make each song an anthem.
if you knew music, you HATED AR’s early output as manipulative and simplistic…shortlived. you felt ARR was a step back and a conspiracy against ilayaraja’s revolution.
HOWEVER there was, we discovered worth in ARR’s songs . ARR showed that he had a musical ear and could use it well.
to me the “indiraio ival sundariyo” from kadalan captured ARR’s early appeal . a two minute bit that was very ordinary music, enhanced and seductive-ized like an advertizement for shikakai soap , with echoes and sounds added, which nevertheless captured the attention of the lay listener. people that had never stopped to listen to a complex composition before, now stopped and listened..and bought cassatts in droves. the Adverizing industry had won.
It wasn’t bad music. it was more commercially aware music. if Ilayaraja knew how to present his songs in such a commercially aware way, he would have milked his output to at least two tamil nadus worth of money.
unfortunately, witht e times, people changed, IR lost interest in making film music, doing it instead for self satisfaction, and to promote his progeny(who were average if anything, even if bhavatarini has a decent voice, if not used in excess.)
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Ramesh K
April 11, 2010
Yes, ARR’s music is commerically aware music. He knows what sells currently and aligns only with the team that can promote his music to such an extent that it becomes a hit. And he also packs more tracks than anybody so that they continously keep coming back to the song to discover new nuances/details. In IR’s music it is a simple orchestration, a nice melody and a grammatically perfect song each time. Thats what he concentrates on. I liked one idea here which i have been thinking for quite a long time. Why can’t he collaborate with his son Yuvan who created a diff sound using his BGM pieces in sarvam. We all know that it is IR’s piece, but we also liked Yuvan’s remix. That can work magic. But if only IR agrees to such an arrangement. KR is more of an IR extension so his ideas and sound arrangements would be more similar to his dad.
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ramesh
April 11, 2010
ARR also packaged his albums as if they were western pop albums. number and nature of tracks, time of each song, the packaging and marketing of the cassattes and cds, the promotions and tours ARR did..were all like he was a western pop artist or fiklmmaker promoting his new release.
It was YEARS before people actually saw a picture of illayaraja.
at this point, I don’t think ilayaraja thinks he has anything to prove to any audience.
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Shankar
April 12, 2010
ramesh: I remember seeing an interview with Raja (link below) during the music release of “Om Shanti” where he described how directors such as Bharatiraja would ask him why he “gave” away some great songs for other films rather than his films etc (BTW, I think BR always got great songs from IR) and Raja replied that he had no control on that. He never put songs away in reserve to give it to his favorite directors etc. Music just flowed when the situation was explained to him. Everyone is aware of how Raja composes on the spot and invariably has the whole score written down. That does introduce the chance for more errors but it’s a miracle how gramatically correct his compositions usually are.
Anyways to get back to what I was going to say in regards to your first para in your earlier comment, another take on that might be that Raja’s mind was zinging with possibilities when situations were explained (in the 80s) and that explained his vast output. Given Rahman’s method of composition, maybe he just can’t be that prolific! In today’s world, ARR is certainly the most commercial with superb business sense and musically, he has certainly matured and produces great stuff now.
Baddy: It’s funny how most of us think that one man was great in the first part of his career while the other is getting better in the latter part of his! Two different trajectories! 🙂
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Pulikesi
April 12, 2010
Ahh Now, Art Lessons?!!
Let me give you a list of Works by Picasso which are not ‘Oil on Canvas’. The works include pencils/crayons/pastels/charcoals etc., Please point out the mistakes and why they are not working. And also why an artist should choose only ‘oils umm RICH OILS’….And also how on to bind an artist to particular medium which we ‘Perceive’ to be great!
Dont worry I understand the complexities in Art, being an Art teacher myself, its only the complexities in music that I dont understand!
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brangan
April 12, 2010
Shankar: Actually, in Thendral vandhu, I liked the “unreal” feel of the instruments. It gave the song a really unusual colour. He’d arranged it really well, and it added to the surreal picturisation.
Reg. “It’s funny how most of us think that one man was great in the first part of his career while the other is getting better in the latter part of his!” – I don’t think it’s funny at all. When someone changes his tools so drastically, I think it’s only natural that this happens. You either like both phases, or you like one phase over the other. The point of this piece wasn’t that IR had become bad. The point was more about why *I* have issues with this phase, that’s all. For that matter, I love MSV, but I have huge problems with his latter-day work, where he made some hideous music. No one’s trying to make a thesis here — just putting forth a very personal (and therefore, not at all universal) opinion.
I think we had a similar discussion with respect to Pazhassi Raja. You pointed to an arrangement and said it was awesome, and I said, yes, the “conception” of the arrangement was mind-blowing but the “execution” did nothing for me. I cannot groove to this harsh/sharap sounding version of IR. Different people approach music different ways 🙂
ramesh: Reg. “at this point, I don’t think ilayaraja thinks he has anything to prove to any audience…” Absolutely. Hell, if this man had retired in 1985, he’s still have nothing to prove to anyone and would have left a giant footprint on Indian Film music 🙂
Pulikesi: Had you read through the piece, you might have saved yourself the trouble of unearthing those links. Where am I saying that an artist “should not” use certain tools? And why it is so difficult to understand that I (and perhaps only I) may have a problem with crayons? Surely, among the legions of fans that worship Ilayaraja version 2.0, there’s enough space in a democratic world for ONE dissenting notion, no? 🙂
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Pulikesi
April 12, 2010
Oh Gawd Ivalo kuda enakku english puriyaathunnu nenachiteengalaa?!!
From an Artistic POV there is no single Artist who has confined himself to a single Medium, and not a single Art enthusiast who has said that he/she likes only a particular medium. Favoritism is there for sure but Disliking works in other mediums is something unheard off! That was the reason I wanted to know from ‘YOU’ what is missing in these pieces of work, In order to reverse connect the analogy and understand why Raaja2.0 (Should be Raaja4.0 & Raaja5.0) is not working for you.
As usual it ends up in ‘I like it / I Don’t Like it’. Appuram ethukku namakku Picasso ellam 🙂
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Ramesh
April 12, 2010
i think ir felt he had proved last when semmangudi srinivasa iyer said during the bharati function “ilayaraja oru mdhai”.
at which point, it was a vasishtar vaayal brahms rishi.
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brangan
April 12, 2010
ramesh: given this composer’s western-classical leanings, “brahms rishi” doesn’t seem a typo. It’s just right 🙂
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raj
April 12, 2010
Baradwaj, don’t mistake me. I meant the latter part of the comment not for you.
Basically, I wanted to understand why does Rahman’s synth(or sel’s) works while Raja’s doesn’t. I have a similar curve as you w.r.t Rahman and I give more weightage to his later part of his career. Only I am not articulate enough to understand this musically. Same with why Ir’s synth vs others. You quoted me so you know where I am, although I have a large number of favourites post 90s – some of them obscure like desiya geetham or kizhakkum merkum.
I still request for further compariosn as to which ppart of rahman’s or sel’s synth works. In other words, I am asking you to go ahead and complete that theses – when and how synth actually works to natural orch seeking ears. Because some synth does appeal to us – raja and non-raja.
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ramesh
April 12, 2010
no typo here. 🙂
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Zero
April 12, 2010
Thanks a ton Baradwaj/Ramesh for pointing towards Nandu songs. Totally bowled over by Kaise Kahoon right now. Fantastic album! Wish I could get a good mp3 audio of these songs.
P.S.: Baradwaj, you talked about Kaise Kahoon in your Cheeni Kum piece. But I never got around to listening to it.
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Ramesh
April 13, 2010
BR, the background to the brahms rishi is(and yes theres urban myth there) Anandavikitan(or was it junior vikitan?) reported the semmangudi quote with a vasishtar vaayal bramharishi and a question mark after . so obviously the gang brought it into the sabhai and opinion divided between ARR fans and IR fans, and this was also roughly the time when a certain musician(who is NOT a mandolin child prodigy) was promoting himself the Mozart of Madras…So obviously one quipped “vasishtar vaayal brahms rishi” because mottai was wearing a beard and mookambikai orange those days…and he rest, as they say about the mystery..
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brangan
April 13, 2010
raj: Ah, you’re asking me to my first full-fledged post on Raja, versus all the comments-only stuff I’ve been writing about him. 🙂 I will get around to it sometime, as this column isn’t restricted to current occurrences (as the paper is). Or perhaps, I’ll just do more bits and pieces like this, as and when time permits. But are you sure this is what you want? For if history is any witness, we always end up fighting 🙂
Oh, I love that one-off, mid-nineties phase Raja had with Vayasu Pulla (Kizhakkum Merkum), Kanmanikku Vaazhthu paadum (Annan) Oranjaaram (Kaakai Siraginile), which even extended to Gundumalli (Solla Marandha Kadhai), Iru kangal podhadhu (Dharma) and Vaanaville (Ramana). He (or his engineer) was doing something with the synth that produced a very unusual level of “sonorousness” in that phase, a rarely-found weight/reverb in the sound. And this appeals to me because, I possess, as you call it, “natural orch seeking ears.”
But after that brief burst, few of his albums have held appeal (to me) — exceptions being Virumaandi, the awesome M. Xpress. And if you’re talking songs, one-offs like Kooda varuviya (Valmiki), or Mella oorndhu (Nandhalala)…
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Shyam
April 13, 2010
Speaking of transitions, have you checked out “jodi kili enge sollu sollu” from padikadhavan ?
Shyam
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Shyam
April 13, 2010
And yes, given that it is a small world, I never knew that my namesake, and my classmates, are related to you, by marriage.
Shyam
PS: Think of your cousins
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Ramesh
April 13, 2010
“because, I possess, as you call it, “natural orch seeking ears.””
namma peter peria lard of the ringsu
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Dreamer
April 14, 2010
Ragarding your PPS, was that exact point ‘Kadhalukku Mariyadhai’ by any chance? At least that was it for me.
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brangan
April 14, 2010
Dreamer: Possibly. That was the mid-90s, right?
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Ramesh
April 14, 2010
1997 abt ten years too late.
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Ramesh
April 14, 2010
singara velan .. maybe naadodi thhenral (199) was his last gasp at writing in the orchestral style.
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Ramesh
April 14, 2010
singara velan ..
maybe naadodi thhenral (1992)
was his last gasp at writing in the orchestral style.
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Tambi Dude
April 14, 2010
1997 !!!, I think by 1988 (Agninakshatram was the last movie whose songs I truly enjoyed) I felt that IR was done and he has nothing new to offer.
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Anon
April 15, 2010
Tambi: Did you not enjoy Anjali (1991 I think).?
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Tambi Dude
April 15, 2010
Anon: Anjali (1990) was OKish. The freshness was gone.
However I did enjoy few songs here and there from IR after 1988, but never a movie as a whole.
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brangan
April 15, 2010
Tambi Dude: Talking of all-round albums, not even Guna? (I’ve always thought this to be far better soundtrack than Thalapathy, released the same year.)
Incidentally, if anyone’s still following the synth discussion, there’s both the good and (IMO) not-good synth sound in Kanmani Anbodu. The glassy-windchime backdrop to Abiramiye thalaattum saamiye — gorgeous. The generic synth in the closing la-la-la… because it’s only backdrop (to the humming voices), it’s fantastic in this context (like a splash of colour on a wall that highlights the paintings), but if this brought to the fore, and becomes colour plus painting (i.e. tune/percussion/everything) of the song, it reduces everything to blandness.
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Suresh
April 15, 2010
Hmmm. Tambi Dude seems to have tightly shut off his ears after ‘Agni Nakshatram’. I mean no ‘Guna’, no ‘Devar Magan’, no ‘Avatharam’, no ‘Virumandi’? We are ofcourse not talking about the Malayalam albums like ‘Oru Yathra Mozhi’, ‘Kalapani’ and ‘Guru’. Those are in a different league altogether.
Well….. I guess the debate will go on. No freshness, lousy synth, same old tabla, he has done all he has to do, cannot understand the new generation, he has lost his imagination, he has lost interest etc etc are oft repeated assertions from many Raja fans. Some think he was great only in the 70s and early 80s, some are generous enough to give him the 80s, some may go upto 92 when ‘Devar Magan’ came. These discussions have been happening in many forums at various decibel levels.
There are some like me who probably look beyond the synth and to his thoughts. We don’t see any degradation of his skills nor his imaginations. ‘Kalapani’ for example, happened in the mid 90s. Forget the Tamil version and listen to the Malayalam one. The stunning orchestration, the magically meandering tunes, the colors which he conjures up. There is just no equal to what he did there. The same with ‘Oru Yathra Mozhi’. Synth dominated soundtrack but what amazing tunes. Can someone use synth to produce the magic of ‘manjulum raatri’. I am yet to hear anything like that from anyone else. ‘Avatharam’ again showcased the genius who alone is able to mix so many genres while keeping everything within the ‘terukoothu’ format!!! Upto ‘Pazhassi Raja’ and ‘Paa’ of last year, the brain is ticking and coming up with some excellent stuff. So while some have lost hope and don’t want to give him the time of the day, there are others like me who still hang on to every note that he generates. For in spite of all the success of all the music directors of today, no one reaches the heights of this man. And believe me, I am hearing everyone.
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Suresh
April 15, 2010
“I am hear anything..’ must read “I am yet to hear anything”
Baradwaj, any way we can edit our post before it is approved to correct grammatical / spelling errors?
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ramesh
April 15, 2010
geetanjali (89) was a fave album
I used to sing this song even when i never understood the words for a long time. the tamil version doesnt have the same magic.
keladi kanmani was a one off song i liked
chinna tambi wasn’t orchestral or synth too much. but the songs were all uniformly nice
so was chinna gounder
I woulda married this chick if the amaicher sundarapandian hadn’t corrected her first.
singaravelan and nadodi thenral, like I mentioned above, the full albums were good.
kalaingnan songs were a good throwback to the old ilayaraja
maybe its meena but i have a guilty thing for ejaman songs
listen to some classic orchestral illayaraja:
Im only at 1993 from 1989!
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ramesh
April 15, 2010
Orchestral ilayaraja: from his baroque phase.
Ullasa paravaigal suite:
priya suite
Idhayam Suite
brahma suite
pallavi anupallavi suite
rajapaarvai concerto
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ramesh
April 15, 2010
Panner pushpangal title
Notice the base playing its own song in the background? that counterpoint (which is originally a baroque concept) is not there any more in ilayaraja’s composing. which I guess is what tambi dude and brangan are complaining about.
MS vishwanathan used to use the base a lot in the 70’s.
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Varun
April 16, 2010
I’m sure the quality of the sound is directly related to how much money there is in the production. In “Keladi Kanmani”, for instance, which was (evidently) a low-budget movie, IR uses synth sounds instead of actual instruments, and it’s such a pity that some marvellous compositions have never been played with real instruments. Even the flute sequences and percussion is synthetic in that one…
Now, if you compare that album with something like “Hey Ram”, you’ll see that it’s all about money. I certainly don’t think the quality of music in “Hey Ram” is any inferior to IR’s older works. “nee paartha paarvai”, “isaiyil thodangudhamma” and all that.
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ramesh
April 16, 2010
oops.. this is the title score from panneer pushpangal
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ramesh
April 16, 2010
hey ram is pretty forgettable classical music , though.
when you compare this
to this
there are no startlingly new ideas over and above a mahler-stravinsky romantic period coloration in the former. the later is full of orchestral experiments in converting classical indian sound to indian jazz(and TV gopalakrishnan deserves some credit here)
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raj
April 17, 2010
Baradwaj, fightkellaam bayandhaa thozhil panna mudiyuma? Just write, I say.
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