Spoilers ahead…
Any film with the word “kadhal” in the title is usually served in one of three flavours – a general romance; its cutesy variant, the rom-com; or what might be called the rom-trag, where Boy and Girl jump off a cliff or are hacked to pieces or <insert preferred mode of death/separation here>. Nalan Kumarasamy’s Kadhalum Kadandhu Pogum is (d) none of the above. The story gets going when Yazhini (Madonna Sebastian) loses her IT job in a recession. She has to give up the posh high-rise apartment she shared with roomies and move into a matchbox of a flat, past a low entrance that bears the warning: Kunindhu sellavum. It’s a constant reminder of just how much she’s come down in life. Another reminder lives in the opposite flat, a rowdy named Kathir (Vijay Sethupathi). A less adventurous film would chart their unlikely love story – opposites attract, et cetera. Kadhalum Kadandhu Pogum, though, invites us to ponder this question: What kind of relationship can there be between a girl who reads A Brief History of Time and a guy who’s just been released from jail? This is, in many ways, an anti-romance. It’s no accident that the film Yazhini and Kathir end up watching on TV is… Kaadhalikka Neramillai. Who has time for love?
There are other things to think about. Yazhini needs a job right now, but she also harbours a vague ambition that she cannot put into precise words. Kathir says that’s okay. Goals should not be easily understood. The film is filled with these lovely little non-dialoguey half-thoughts, which crop up when real people converse. I loved how Yazhini’s father reacted to her running away from their home in Vizhuppuram, with the calmest of video messages informing the family about her decision. He catches her at the railway station and says, “Unakku enna venum-nu adam pudichaa dhaane adhoda importance engalukku puriyum?” This doesn’t sound like a line from a movie dad but from someone you may find at home, reading a newspaper in an easy chair. Kathir has a goal too. He wants to own a bar. And till that happens, till he gets rich, he’s got to watch what he spends. Note the scene where he pays for Yazhini’s breakfast and later asks her to pay him back. It isn’t just a funny moment about a man who wanted to show off in front of the hotel manager. It also showcases his desperation.
Kadhalum Kadandhu Pogum, then, is about two ships – or maybe we should say catamarans – passing in the night, on a stormy sea. And we get an answer to what kind of relationship could exist between them. Kathir and Yazhini become each other’s support system, a kind of lifeline – for they seem to have no one else to turn to. One of the curious aspects of this film is how it seals these two off. Kathir never seems to hang out with his gangster buddies. (A good thing, in a way. The scenes of crime are so disconnected from the narrative, they seem to belong in a completely different movie.) As for Yazhini, her roomies are now in other cities – they never call or offer help, job-wise or otherwise. Even her boyfriend vanishes. Yazhini and Kathir are practically marooned.
There’s a lot of nice filmmaking here – though how much is from the South Korean original, My Dear Desperado, I do not know. Yazhini’s entire arc with her ex is so delicately handled, we barely notice it. One moment, he’s prodding her with a pen to wake her up from a daydream during an office meeting. Then, they’re sharing lunch. Then he’s gone. In keeping with the film’s philosophy, this whole story – the only actual love story here– is dismissed in a matter of minutes. Then there’s that odd touch with the Mariyan song, associated with Yazhini’s interviews. The film’s most moving scene is the little stretch where Yazhini, after losing her job, digs a hole in the sand and buries her ID card. It’s like she’s burying a life. But apart from a handful of scenes, I wasn’t particularly drawn to anything or anyone. I felt nothing for Yazhini when she was humiliated by a couple of interviewers. Many bits sound like they might have been funny – one where a woman demonstrates how to use pepper spray, another where Kathir encounters an insomniac. But on screen, I couldn’t see the point. Kadhalum takes a very long time to find its rhythms, and the first half, especially, just sits there, animated solely by Santhosh Narayanan’s score. The composer may be getting too tied down to a sound – lush, quirky, local – but at least it throbs with life.
And for a character study, we get very little by way of character development. Yazhini gets a line where she says she hates hostels. Kathir gets a line where he asks the manager of a grocery store not to hand two young shoplifters over to the cops, because once these kids see the inside of a jail, there’s no hope for them. We sense that he’s speaking from experience. But that’s not enough to sustain what feels like a very long movie. The casting doesn’t help. As much as I appreciate Vijay Sethupathi seeking out varied roles and using his star power to lure audiences to films they may not see otherwise, his I-can’t-be-bothered persona doesn’t let us into Kathir’s head at all. (It doesn’t help that we just saw this actor as a rowdy.) And though his comic act towards the end, pretending to be Yazhini’s boyfriend, has its moments, it yanks us out of the undercurrent of melancholy that’s everywhere else. Madonna Sebastian is a nice presence, but she looks too vacuously model-pretty – I was reminded of how odd Catherine Tresa seemed in Madras. Why don’t these rooted films look towards earthy actresses like Nandita or Aishwarya Rajesh? Yazhini is supposed to represent the little people, who study in obscure little engineering colleges and find the going rough in big cities. Looking at the immaculately made-up and attired Madonna Sebastian, you think: Really?
As second films go, Kadhalum Kadandhu Pogum has to count as a letdown, but give Nalan Kumarasamy this much – he hasn’t made Soodhu Kavvum II, and he hasn’t gone commercial with a vengeance either. He isn’t just reshaping the Kollywood romance here. He’s also reshaping the sarakku scene, by having the hero get drunk with the heroine, instead of a male friend. He’s also reshaping the hero himself. Hearing the song Oru oorula orey oru veeran over Kathir striding into a bar to bash up some goons, we expect macho fireworks, a fight scene worthy of that song, worthy of a hero. But Kathir gets beaten up instead. Walking out, I wondered if this angle wouldn’t have made for an interesting movie on its own, without the crutch of the South Korean romance. But I have to admit that the Kathir-Yazhini scenes accrue weight towards the closing portions, so much so that we find ourselves completing their stories in our heads during the drive home. Just as the film comes to an end, we feel it’s beginning.
KEY:
- Kadhalum Kadandhu Pogum = Love, too, shall pass
- kadhal = love
- Kunindhu sellavum = Duck before you enter.
- Kaadhalikka Neramillai = see here
- Unakku enna venum-nu adam pudichaa dhaane adhoda importance engalukku puriyum?” = If you don’t throw a tantrum about what you want, how are we to know?
- My Dear Desperado = see here
- Mariyan = see here
- Madras = see here
- sarakku = booze
An edited version of this piece can be found here. Copyright ©2016 The Hindu. This article may not be reproduced in its entirety without permission. A link to this URL, instead, would be appreciated.
praneshp
March 12, 2016
Wow, I’d love to have a bit of what you are smoking when playing with the themes.
There seemed to be a theme of “I got into this life, but the younger ones shouldn’t”, first in the supermarket scene, then in the climax when they head out to kill the ex-cop.
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brangan
March 12, 2016
praneshp: Haha. I was looking for a specific font, and I found my old theme had it after all. I think WordPress font changes are no longer premium — at least in the free themes.
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Hariharan
March 12, 2016
I somehow felt that it would have made a big impact if final petrol bunk scene wasn’t there. I saw yazhini as a bold girl. The scene where she asks for poster sticking job made a impact without being melodramatic. Why shouldn’t job seekers find a house mate. That makes more economical sense and that’s what people do right(unless she is an introver, which isn’t the case here). I found it odd and decreased the believability of the movie, which aspires to be realistic in nature.
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Reuben
March 12, 2016
The film felt a tad bit long. I felt the movie was ok. But maybe that’s my confirmation bias kicking in, so much wanting Nalan to succeed.
The bit that was jarring was the sudden decision to introduce Kathir to her parents as her lover/manager. That I felt was not consistent to the characterisation of the parents who do not want to send their daughter away to study/work but are game enough to welcome their daughters lover.
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Dhejr
March 12, 2016
dear br, I don’t mean to sound snarky or troll-ly; its just that you just don’t seem to get Vijay Sethupathi. That’s fine; I just don’t get dr. Seuss for example; a lot of people in the world may tell me I am missing something really good, and I gently wanted to tell you the same thing. You are missing something really really good.
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Anuja Chandramouli
March 12, 2016
“As much as I appreciate Vijay Sethupathi seeking out varied roles and using his star power to lure audiences to films they may not see otherwise, his I-can’t-be-bothered persona doesn’t let us into Kathir’s head at all.”
I think that is a tad harsh BR. Viijay Sethupathi reminds me of Dhanush back in the day when he had potential but had not yet gotten into his groove (remember Pudhukottaila Irundhu Saravanan?) except Vijay Sethupathi is even more charismatic, despite showing restraint to the point where it is downright ineffective. Given time and the kind of scripts he has shown a penchant for choosing, I think he could go all the way. Hell, there might even be a National award in his future.
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doctorhari
March 12, 2016
This movie worked for me. There were quite a few glitches, of course. As you have mentioned, the heroine felt a little too cute and plastic for a small town girl – which stood in the way of the viewer connecting with her, as much as the director would have liked. And of late, we have seen Vijay Sethupathi in such roles quite often. Though he has done full justice to the role, it lacked freshness hence. Despite those, as the movie was nearing its end, it gained emotional momentum. That scene where kathir drives away his apprentice from the murder-mission he is assigned was quite moving, and so was the dream sequence of the heroine that followed. But after that, their fortuitous meeting at the fuel station felt unnecessary. At least, it could have ended with something like, the owner ordering kathir to collect the money, and him walking towards the car, with the end credits rolling. That would made a greater impact.
The scene where the shopkeeper wife gives a demonstration of pepper spray on her husband, seemed like belonging to Soodhu kavvum, and not this movie. Despite the director looking to break the black-comedy mold he’s been slotted into, he seems to have a natural flair for that, which keeps expressing now and then. Waiting to see what he does next.
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Siva
March 12, 2016
Watched it yesterday at Sathyam with a really appreciative mix of crowd. Ka Ka Po was a brilliant watch with classic performanes from VJS and Madonna. Felt Nalan’s adaptation of the Korean film was picture perfect in terms of its local flavour. I am perfectly fine with the subtle performances VJs brings on screen for any kind of role he takes up. The only other person whom he can be compared today in Tamil industry is Dhanush (yes Dhanush is definitely higher at the moment on my radar too). A nice movie on a sweet relationship between 2 people with completely different backgrounds and needs. Quirky witing and splendid dialogues by Nalan. It was a million miles away from the ‘regular rowdy-beautiful girl’ romance beaten to death in Indian cinema. From BR’s review, I see a lot of positives about the film in it. But somehow I would have given a better heading on top. Seems the heaading doesnt quite justify the positves in the review. ‘A let down but not a lazy one’ could have been ‘A fairly engaging 2nd attempt’.
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brangan
March 12, 2016
Dhejr: That didn’t sound snarky or troll-ly at all, and it’s entirely possible that I don’t “get” VS. But let me explain where I come from.
I liked that laidback, I-can’t-be-bothered-to-act approach in the early films, but it’s become very repetitive for me. I mean, I can understand a Vijay doing the same thing in film after film, because his films are all in a larger-than-life realm and more about star persona than acting abilities. But the scripts VS chooses need actors, and when he does the same thing in Orange Mittai and Soodhu Kavvum and KKP, I find it monotonous. Even Sethupathi, as much as I liked the film, could have used more star persona, or charisma.
So I’d like to hear from you, now, about why he works for you, and what you think he brings to the table. I mean, in terms of performance. As I’ve said in this review (and also the Soodhu Kavvum review), I’m a huge fan of his script selection.
PS: About not getting something, it happens all the time. Here’s a post I wrote long ago about about the time I really “got” the song “Paattaale buthi sonnaar…” (See last two paras)
Siva: You are right. I hope I didn’t sound dismissive about the film. I liked a lot of the building blocks, but it did not really come together as a whole for me. But it’s certainly not a lazy film.
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Amit Joki
March 12, 2016
Ahem…more charismatic than Dhanush, that is totally subjective 😁😁😁
Vijay Sethupathy is a good actor, but I still don’t know for sure if he can give a relevatory and emotional performances like Dhanush and Dinesh(whom I consider is the closest to the level of Dhanush, in terms of acting, though Dhanush is on a very different and higher level altogether)
But he is pretty good at non serious dark comedy films. And it helps that he gets to work with the best budding directors like Nalan and Karthick Subbaraj. For so I long for Dhanush to work with these guys, VJ is giving them all his callsheets 😁 his next with Karthick being Iraivi.
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Karthik
March 12, 2016
I believe I’m in the ‘I do not get Vijay Sethupathy’ brigade too. I really like some of his (actually, many of his) films and had a ball watching Naanum Rowdy Dhaan (even using ‘Mi mi’ with my mom, and ‘Are you ok baby’ with wife 🙂 ). But when it comes to ‘acting’, or acting chops, I find myself thinking that he is very, very limited in range. He reminds me of Salman Khan, with much less put-on swagger, with the same amount of I’ll-be-like-this-only-hope-you-fit-me-in-this-plot-and-enjoy. I don’t want him to overact, cry, or do Kamal-style stuff, but he doesn’t convince me that he is involved in anything, though I know a lot of friends who think the polar opposite of this line of thought.
Given this, it is interesting that KV Anand has (seems to have) signed Vijay Sethupathy for his next film – http://bit.ly/1MdRtiK Interesting times.
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kart03ik
March 12, 2016
Let’s hope this is his Jackie brown and Soodhu Kavvum was not an one-off.
BR, Get the feeling you are slightly cold to Nalan. Haven’t seen this film but I thought that SK didn’t get the review it deserved from you. For me it was one of the best movies of the decade and I was constantly looking at my watch hoping the movie wouldn’t end . The last time that happened to me was with Michael Madana Kamarajan!
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Dr.Srinivas
March 12, 2016
Same here. I really enjoy this blog for though his opinions may not always be popular, I always get the feeling that Mr.Brangan is always honest with himself and how he responds to a Film. I find that an endearing and admirable trait. His views on Films like ‘Kirumi’ and ‘Court’ were spot on and I watched those Films after reading his reviews.
I agree completely with the above post. That was the only time I felt BR’s review was a tad weird. To me, ‘Soodhu Kavvum’ is one of the finest Tamil Films out there and it’s greatness was so blatantly obvious that any other POV seemed off kilter.
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bart
March 12, 2016
I liked the movie. I agree it isn’t a Soodhu Kavvum but a very gentle breezy entertainer for sure. Though I do not want to compare him against Dhanush, I do not mind VS in these movies at all (including Naanum Rowdidhan).
One area VS scores easily over the rest (including Dhanush) is his earthy natural Madras tamil. Next is his body language. To explain this i will pick this movie’s two scenes with SamuthiraKani in this movie – the first scene where he meets SK in that hotel and gets smacked vs the next scene where he meets SK coming out of his thalaivar’s office (porai – office boy scene). The contrast is just enough. He makes just enough expressions to convey the scene in general – the uneasiness & nervousness infront of Yazhini’s parents, that you do not notice his acting at all (Which means the camera cannot linger on his expressions in general for long). I would however agree to that fact that this lack of intensive range in expressions (azhutham thiruthama nadikkaradhu) will make him boxed into certain characters (e.g.: Can’t even imagine him doing a Pudhupettai).
BTW, I liked the fill in blanks portions in the movie at the end. Didn’t make the movie incomplete.
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udhaysankar
March 13, 2016
I thought BR gave a positive review for SK. But, I remember being disappointed that the review didn’t go on for a few more paragraphs. It was short and to the point. If there was any Tamil movie in 2013, that deserved lots of praise it was soodhu kavvum. It was a perfect movie experience and I never got bored for a moment. The songs from Santosh are perfectly in sync with the montages. And the timing of the song ‘ellaam kadandhu pogumada’ is impeccable. It is a piece of work that transcends it’s basic premise marvellously. I was so much into the movie that I didn’t realize yog jappe not uttering a single dialogue in the entire movie. Imagine a character in any movie not uttering a dialogue having screen time of 60 mins. It would have been very odd after some time, especially in a movie filled with ingenious dialogues. But, Nalan narrates the film in such a way that it is perfectly in sync with his character. The screenplay is also very good, with each one’s character traits established with ease and humour. Then the small natural but not predictable conflicts are introduced one by one till they pile up to a point. And all of them build up to an excitingly satisfying climax. Hope he doesn’t lose his brilliant sense of humor and comes back with a bang again.
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brangan
March 13, 2016
udhaysankar: I remember it as a pretty thumping review. I mean, look at the opening line: “From the very beginning, from the minute a lowly MNC employee rolls off his bed in a tiny house whose walls bear a poster of T Rajendar, Nalan Kumarasamy’s Soodhu Kavvum is a demonstration of what’s possible when movies are made for the sheer joy of making movies. ” 😀
But yes, if you’re looking at the size of the review, that’s not really a gauge of how much I liked it. When a movie is full of clever bits like SK, you can’t keep mentioning all of them. Plus, it’s not a film that invites you to dig deep in, like KKP. So there also isn’t much to talk about after you’ve mentioned one instance of how this is clever and how that is clever.
Just to clarify: “Deep” is not synonymous with “good.” Just that when a film digs deep, it gives the reviewer more to write about — even if it doesn’t work. In the sense that if you were to graph it up, SK is a “horizontal” film (more about forward momentum of story) and KKP is a “vertical” film (not much story, but about depth of chars, etc.) — and the latter gives more to chew over in a review.
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praneshp
March 13, 2016
I remember brangan reviewing Soothu Kavvum really positively, and then mentioning he rated it above Jigarthanda later. Pretty positive review, if you ask me.
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Naresh (@cpnaresh)
March 13, 2016
The movie was a drag on for most part with out enough drama or story progression. It was a narrative of what happened in their lives with out any significant reason for audience to know. I expected much better from Nalan and this was to me a let down especially with the expensive tickets in Bangalore multiplexes.
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jussomebody
March 13, 2016
I know that Vijay Sethupathi’s dialogue delivery leaves a lot to be desired, but there is something about it that makes it all sound like he is just talking, saying what he feels, not mouthing something someone has written for him. Manivannan is the only other actor I can think of who had that rare ability.
Overall in terms of talent though, I think comparisons to Dhanush are unfair. But Dhanush was nowhere near this likable in his early career. This man is adorable, perhaps because he has chosen really people pleasing roles so far, unlike Dhanush who really made some sections of the audience cringe, especially in his collaborations with his brother. But this guy, SO adorable and charismatic.
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brangan
March 13, 2016
Also, I’m really puzzled by the constant use of the word “breezy” wrt to this film. It felt like anything but that. It’s not a light film at all.
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Varun
March 13, 2016
As you requested, Let me explain why he works for me and why he did not sounded monotonous at all. He is so natural and realistic in his character execution..Many of us in real life are not so..What do you mean by Charisma..? rendering punch dialogues? or Displaying Heroic Stuff? In the age where a opening song is must for a mass hero..Here is an actor who gets punched ruthlessly by a group right in the opening minutes of movie..How many actors we have like that? Comparing Dhanush With Vijay Sethupathi? No way..I am surprised that inspite of playing the same Jobless, easy going youth for like say 10 years, We did not felt monotonous..We have Actors who are displaying the same expressions, Same repetetive story lines, Same Charisma for like 30 plus years and we did not felt monotonous . Here is an Actor, Who enjoys Acting, who selects Good scripts , Tries variety of roles and being so natural and realisitc. And come on, he is just very early in his career..I Enjoyed the performance of VS thoroughly as much I enjoyed the movie. What works for me may not work for you..But the actor is a joy to watch because He is so close to Real life versions of Character he is playing…
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bart
March 13, 2016
BR Saar, not sure if it was stormy in your books. Lack of heavy melodrama or not heavily punctuating such available situations thanks to the treatment of the movie made this breezy to me. The movies I would like it to club it along would be “kanda naal mudhal” or “azhagiya theeye” types.
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Amit Joki
March 13, 2016
Comparing Dhanush with VJS, no way? Yes, it is even laughable.
First he isn’t a mass hero as yet. And it is no big deal getting punched because he is playing a wannabe rowdy as he did in NRD.
I too can ask how many heroes out there will accept with no inhibitions on being slapped or even spit by heroines.
Heck, he played a mentally ill character in his second film as far as talks on early career goes.
Yes, Dhanush has been playing easy going youth, but that stops at the base of the character arc and is not the arc itself. That jobless youth, is showcased for the initial say, 10-20 minutes. And then? He displays a plethora of emotions in the rest of the film.
That jobless aimless youth is the base on whih his character is built upon which has various shades in each movie.
That shades isn’t being evident in case of VJS, because it seems he is playing the base all the time, at which he is pretty good, but that generally tends to be monotonous.
I can imagine Dhanush in all VJS movies, but the same can’t be told vice versa like VJS in Maryan, Puthupettai, Mayakkam Enna, 3, Kaadhal Konden for instance.
His acting seems restrained. He just needs to open up more I guess.
My two cents.
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Varun
March 13, 2016
Everyone is entitled to have some opinions and their own imaginations.. But Time will say who is the best and who has limitations and ultimately.. Who will be a great enteratiner.. until then we all can wait for the moment of truth and live in our own opinions and imaginations..
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v
March 13, 2016
There’s no comparison in effortlessness and ease. VJS is superior than his contemporaries. And if we are talking range, Dhanush feels superficial in films like maari thanga magan where a VJS wud make it natural. I can t imagine dhanush in Soodhu kaavum while VJS can easily fit into Pudhupettai, dhanush was a novice in 2nd half. We can replace both like for like in any of the normal roles. However a film like NKPK, dhanush would make that ‘enna aachu’ feel tiring. And gamechanger is films like seenu ramaswamy films like TPK with more earthy rural characters. Dhanush won’t fit unless we make that character fit into that irresponsibile youth who has a fair skinned girl as his object of desire and he can show his bare bones physicality. Films like kadhal kondein, Anegan, even Mariyan with overacting/bad acting is not vjs cup of tea.
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brangan
March 13, 2016
Somehow I seem to have missed the announcement that Vijay Sethupathi vs Dhanush is the new Rahman vs Raja.
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v
March 13, 2016
There’s this young actor called Sri who acted in Vazhakku En/OAK/ Vil Ambu. I have found him convincing.
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Amit Joki
March 13, 2016
Varun – That is a great idea.
V – I was in the mood of continuing the argument, but then you opened my nettri kannu on how bad acting he did in mariyan and anegan. You sir are a great. I knew I don’t stand a chance with you for your sensibilities on what acting is is definitely way higher than mine. You win, I lose.
Peace.
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Gradwolf
March 13, 2016
I am sure you did not intend (!) it but I came out feeling you dismissed the film. Maybe the one line summary you use these days subconsciously does it. You should go back to your patented punning for titles!
I thought this was sort of an artist’s version of Naanum Rowdy Dhaan. The not-so-talented ruffian lending a shoulder to the lover in crisis. But way more abstract than such simple term deconstruction. Never takes the easy way out. Never plays to the galleries. Every time you expect something to happen by guidelines of Tamil cinema, there was something else to surprise you. Not that this alone should make the film more than good but the whole trajectory was pretty great I felt. And of course like you mentioned, Nalan gave a whole new spin on the slacker romance we’ve come to hate in our films. I also felt there were lot of nuggets, just like SK, that may reward during revisits.
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brangan
March 13, 2016
Gradwolf: I haven’t dismissed the film at all. A “letdown” from the levels of Soodhu Kavvum is hardly a diss.
But that said, the performances did not hold for me, and I was never drawn into the film. I was always watching it from a distance. A lot of great things IN THEORY (and probably on paper), but the final product, to me, was neither fish nor fowl, neither an artistic standout nor a commercial entertainer. And it was WAY too long for this kind of film — so much stuff felt like padding.
And what did you find abstract? It was all very clean and linear, no?
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Gradwolf
March 13, 2016
No, I understand you haven’t but I was referring to your reply to Siva about hoping you didn’t sound dismissive. I was wondering how this can come across that way.
I did find the whole bar owners and that thread to be padding.
Abstract in the sense that this is hardly the straight forward love story. It’s not about the guy convincing the girl or other way round. It’s not about what happens after they fall in love and what outsider crisis they face. It’s not about the sweet nothings and the interesting conversations they have. This is a love story where neither of them intended for anything and at the same time there is a lot about everyday mundane things that they end up doing together. Maybe I used the wrong word, I didn’t mean to say there was any deeper meaning or allegory. I meant it shows us moments in those parts of romance that we don’t see in a romantic film. And that’s almost vindicated by all the dry/slow “accusations” the film has been receiving.
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udhaysankar
March 13, 2016
At the start of Dhanush’s career,I saw ‘Sullaan’ and never for a second thought he would become a mass-commercial-sort of a hero, cause it didn’t work for him at all. But he kept trying with the mass hero template and still wasn’t successful. Polladhavan,I guess was the turning point for him. That was the first film for me in which Dhanush’s performance worked. Especially the ‘podra’ dialogue from polladhavan was his first authentic mass-moment.
Till then whatever mass-hero thing he did didn’t work for me at all, i.e: my mind could never accept the fact that this ollipichaan-overloud-guy can beat up 10 guys and mouth dialogues like ‘Sullaan, soodaanen sulukeduthuruven’. Add to the fact that he always used to shout his dialogues monotonously, wear clothes that were too big for him, etc. But, Polladhavan changed that thinking subconsciously. My mind( and heart) began to accept that Dhanush can carry-off mass moments and was more tolerant towards his mass-hero cum star persona.
The broader point I’m trying to make is that Vijay Sethupathi never had to work for an audience unlike Dhanush, who progressed himself as a better actor and star than as his career went along. Add to the fact that we’ve predominantly seen only the funny, comic sides of VS, it is too early to compare VS with Dhanush and Dhanush>VS (as of now).
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MANK
March 13, 2016
*Maybe the one line summary you use these days subconsciously does it. You should go back to your patented punning for titles! *
Brangan, i sorta agree with Gradwolf on this. the problem was there in the Sethupathi review too, the title made it sound that the review was a diss, but the review was anything but that, the patented punning was at least great fun and there was no cause for misunderstanding either 🙂
And how the hell did the dhanush -VS war begin, so is dhanush-simbhu war over ? 🙂
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neabs
March 13, 2016
Kadhalum … was a different feel on the whole. The dialog were so so quirky. Still surprised why Nalan wanted his second venture to be a remake. Nevertheless loved the touches he has given to the Tamil version . Madonna is multi talented , she has shown good dynamics in the role. I loved the way the movie started and ended with the heroine’s mind voice, something we rarely get.
Loved Many scenes in the movie but of all the interview scene remains my favorite , a thumps up for that kind of imagination.
I somehow Din’t like scenes involving Samuthirakani’s murder.
The climax was a surprise.
May the whole package isn’t great , but for few aspects the movie is really a refreshing take.
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tonks
March 13, 2016
I beg to differ from MANK. In the absence of a rating system, I find the one line summary very useful to decide which movies to see before reading the review and which not. Its not very often that it misleads so please do not change that.
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brangan
March 13, 2016
tonks: So this film or Sethupathi, did the heading make you want to watch them?
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Kid
March 13, 2016
BR: I don’t think I have a problem with the heading here because it ties in beautifully with your actual review (because you did feel let down by the film especially when compared to Soodhu Kavvum. But you also didn’t feel that Nalan was simply trying to coast on the reputation of his earlier film. that he was trying to do something fresh in Tamil rom-com context and that this film isn’t close to being a complete failure or anything…I think both your heading and the review say the same thing). But I do think, and as I had pointed, the Sethupathi heading was more problematic (the “routine” word especially)
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Ravi K
March 13, 2016
Baradwaj, it seems like if you like, but don’t LOVE, a film that others love, they think you hate it!
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Kid
March 13, 2016
Dr. Srinivas:
“To me, ‘Soodhu Kavvum’ is one of the finest Tamil Films out there and it’s greatness was so blatantly obvious that any other POV seemed off kilter
With all due respect, I find this statement absurd to say the least. And I continue to be puzzled by your rather “fascistic” approach towards responding to a film.
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tonks
March 13, 2016
BR, actually no. But after reading the review, I’m definitely interested in watching both. So I suppose in these particular cases the heading was a little misleading, but that’s OK, thats understandable, when there are good bits and some not- so- good bits in the same movie. It’s only when the summary is glowing that I postpone reading the review till I watch it (or like olemisstarana said, read only bits of it, trying to avoid spoilers). Not a fool proof system but I’m content. And the heading is a part of it.
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Kid
March 13, 2016
Man, I thought BR loved Soodhu Kavvum. There are so many passages in his review of the film where there is effusive praise. The only line in the review which I remember to be not completely endorsing the film where he mentions something like the film is slightly slow at places. I think BR’s review here was far more positive than say for a TZP or Haider. I am not too sure how would one could be more positive in
Also I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, but let me put this quite bluntly- Soodhu Kavvum would not mean much outside Tamil cinema. I mean had this been a Hindi it would not amount to anything more than an enjoyable, well crafted film. Even on the level of pure craft and technique, there is nothing here to set it apart from so many Hindi films. But even in the genre of crime comedy, Soodhu Kavvum is hardly new to the non-Tamil Indian audience- take Rohan SIppy’s Bluffmaster, that film arrived some seven years earlier than the Kumarasamy film and it is still far sharper in technique than SK. Some years later we have two fine works in the genre by Raj and DK (99, Shor in the City…I think I will easily take Shor over SK). In other words, unless one attaches the caveat of “in Tamil cinema”, Soodhu Kavvum doesn’t really mean much as an Indian film. Even with Jigarthanda, I will say that the formal skills displayed (again far sharper than SK) and the subversion of the genre here are something noteworthy and could stand upto Bollywood standards (and upstage them as well). But frankly I don’t quite see anything in SK other than a well crafted, well executed film. Now IMO with Aaranya Kaandam, some of Mysskin’s works (OA, Pisasu), Pudhupettai, Aadukalam, Visaranai, Pithamagan, Naan Kadavul, Virumandi, Kadhal, Hey Ram, Kaaka Muttai, Vinnaithandi Varuvaya, some of Rathnam’s works since 2000 (though this isn’t a fair example because two of these films are also in Hindi) and some lesser efforts like Subramaniyapuram, Chennai 600028, Endhiran, Paruthiveeran, Jigarthanda, Pasanga, Kalavani, Vennila Kabadi Kuzhu, Vaaranam Aayiram, Anjathey, Yudham Sei, Nandalala, Veyil, Autograph, Thavamai Thavamirundhu, Poo, etc one doesn’t really need to use “brilliant for Tamil cinema crutch” because I think some of these work could easily match up to and better a lot of Bollywood works from the same period. I don’t think the same is true for SK. Also this might sound blasphemous, but once you take the genre into account, I think Dhill, Dhool and Pandiyanaadu are actually more important works than Soodhu Kavvum inasmuch they are better than 99% of bollywood films of the same genre.
Of course my point on SK isn’t a completely fair one considering one can’t ultimately completely separate film from the industry it is made in. But all I was saying was that there isn’t really anything new or truly great here once you get past the Tamil bit.
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Deepak
March 13, 2016
Save for the introduction of the leads and a couple of scenes here and there, the Sathyam theater crowd was extremely silent (Not in a good way).
It felt like watching two unremarkable people have uninteresting conversations. Tedious!
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tonks
March 13, 2016
Im not sure that came across clearly. What I meant to say is that sometimes it’s impossible to project everything you want to tell about a movie into one line, so there is bound to be some misunderstanding with the heading for middle of the road movies. But in the absence of a star system and the presence of spoilers, I find the heading (despite its limitations) helpful so it would be nice if you continued giving us that
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brangan
March 14, 2016
kid: Also I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, but let me put this quite bluntly- Soodhu Kavvum would not mean much outside Tamil cinema.
I kinds-sorta of agree, and your comment makes me want to add a few things:
(1) As you say at the end , a film should be viewed in the context of the industry it’s made in. And for Tamil cinema, SK was definitely an out-of-the-box film. The style of narration, the sensibility of the humour, etc. was very different from what we’re used to.
(2) Nalan is not a pure director like, say, Mysskin or Mani Ratnam — at least on the basis of his two films, he’s much more an ideator and writer than a director. At a formal level, I don’t find much in SK or KKP.
(3) I’ve always been puzzled about the high level of craft in Hindi films. With the rare exception of the Sajid Khans and Tusshar Kapoor films, there’s always a sensibility that unites the film at a formal level. I mean a Maneesh Sharma comes out of nowhere and makes a Band Baaja Baaraat, with a visual/formal sensibility that feels so new. How do they manage this? Is it bigger budgets? But that can’t be the only thing. Maybe it’s also because they separate the writing and directing duties there, and only the “directors” go on to direct. I commissioned this story about why the cinematography in Hindi films is so much better, despite the fact that many of these craftsmen are from the South. It’s only one aspect of the “formal” thing we are talking about, but it may give some ideas.
http://www.thehindu.com/features/cinema/kollywood-cinematographers-say-why-bollywood-films-are-betterlooking/article8144915.ece
(4) I disagree with you about Pithamagan. Bala is easily the one major filmmaker with the least craft. A lot of his films work for me, but purely at a visceral level and on the basis of content. As form, they are all very ordinary.
(5) I agree about Thavamai Thavamirundhu. I was quite shocked when I saw the film, as I never knew Cheran was capable of such formal unity. But he’s never repeated it, so maybe the film was a fluke combination of a great crew that worked despite the director? 🙂 I guess the same could be said about Subramaniyapuram. He’s never repeated that level of formal achievement.
(6) Among the younger filmmakers, the directors who are great at a formal level are Thiagarajan Kumararaja (only one film, I know), Karthik Subburaj, Selvaraghavan (very inconsistent, but when he puts his mind to it…), Vetri Maaran… They have a strong sensibility and have a good form-to-content ratio.
(7) Coming back to SK, it’s also not a work that’s easily translated, so the enjoyment from the movie may not be as much for a non-Tamil audience.
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Dr.Srinivas
March 14, 2016
Kid,
//With due respect, I find this statement absurd to say the least.//
With all due respect, I don’t.
But I didn’t get the ‘fascistic’ part. Do you mean to say I have a ‘my way or the highway’/highly intolerant approach to different POVs?
Man, I think that’s pretty harsh. 😀 Not that I care much anyway but I was just voicing out what I really felt. I’ll try to explain. I have watched most of the films you have mentioned. ‘Shor’ was well structured and really quirky and I loved it but as somebody mentioned, something was lost in translation. I kinda agree with your view that SK is not really a trend setter in terms of pure technique and NK is more a writer than a Director but it was such an extremely well crafted Film and the writing pretty much sublimated every other perceived limitation, if any. Maybe I went into the theatre with no idea of NK and therefore, that worked big time as I wasn’t really expecting anything ‘out-of-the-box’ but tell you what, I was blown away Man. It just gripped me from start to finish. I’m partial to ‘talkies’ and I thought it was fiendishly clever and entertaining with really nifty dialogues. It somehow reminded me of Mamet although the ‘MametSpeak’ and the subsequent cons are really singular and elaborately subtle. Mamet isn’t really regarded as a ‘great’ Director for obvious reasons but I just love all his ‘Films’ to death. Sure, ‘SK’ is a lot more joyful for the native Tamilian but that’s a given. Rarely do you see such a wonderfully written and well executed Film in Tamil Cinema.
‘Dhill’, ‘Dhool’ and ‘Pandiyanaadu’ are ‘more important’ works? Now I find THIS puzzling!
P.S. Excuse me, Brangan. Maybe I misread your SK review but I was just voicing aloud my thoughts. No offence intended.
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Dr.Srinivas
March 14, 2016
One question Brangan. This is just genuine curiosity.
Which Film would rate higher/ is more enjoyable in your book?
A brilliant writer donning the Director’s hat or an Ace Director helming slightly inferior material? With all other things being somewhat similar.
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Deepak
March 14, 2016
Just going by the bare outline of the story, I wonder how good was the South Korean movie to be remade in 2 Indian Languages (Jayantabhai Ki Luv Story in Hindi)? I haven’t seen KKP but having seen Jayantabhai (JKLS), and reading your review and the comments above, I find some strange parallels in both. In JKLS, Vivek Oberoi was the hero, where he put on his patented Chandu persona from Company which just like what you have described above with Vijay Sethupathi seems to be more of the same. In JKLS also, the heroine is supposed to be a small town up north who had come down to Bombay on her own. The heroine was played by Neha Sharma who, just like you’ve described Madonna Sebastian looks way too refined and beauty queen pretty to seem like she’s from a small town. Neha sharma can’t really act well as well. The breakfast scene where the hero asks for money back is also in the Hindi version. Overall that movie was just timepass for when there’s nothing else to see on TV, nothing more. Looks like this version at least tried to be a bit better than that one.
I did want to ask, is Yazhini a very common name or was it just added to make it seem as if the heroine is not from the big city? Seems like a weird choice of name. Reminded me of a wonderful dialogue from C Kkompany where Mithun scolds Ekta Kapoor who plays herself “Tumhare sab hero ke naam Aryaman, Govardhan kyun hain, Kartik, Rahul, Satish sab mar gaye kya?” I know this is kind of a norm in Tamil movies where the names have to reflect their innate traditional values and they mostly can’t be called Rahul and Satish, etc. but Yazhini somehow seems more egregious to me. Do let me know if I’m way off base here.
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udhaysankar
March 14, 2016
Br: What do you exactly mean by then phrase ‘on a formal level’?. Do you refer to their craft? Or the feel that something is being ‘ directed’ there?
Films of myskkin and mani ratnam often feels ‘directed’ for me. For example, myskkin’s constant use of rain, wind to highlight emotions makes me look at his craft which is supposed to work in the other direction.
MR’s films evoke the least visceral reaction from me. They always have a Polish on them that you can almost smell the man behind the screen, and it becomes difficult to be involved emotionally with them on a visceral level. It is rather easier to appreciate his films from a dispassionate formal view.
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udhaysankar
March 14, 2016
With MR I refer to his later films from Roja till date to OK Kanmani. His earlier films are the ones which I like to revisit a lot because, I strangely have a greater emotional connect to those ones, despite the fact that his later films had better craft.
Iruvar is an exception, though.
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sabharinath
March 14, 2016
I feel “letdown” is too big a word…. The only thing I found negative, was its snail pace….. But I think that’s the beauty of it….. It was slow, but never boring…. It was like relishing every moment of that relationship…. I thoroughly enjoyed it so much, that I really wished for an emotional dramatic climax involving a tight hug, tears of joy etc., Regarding VJ sethupathy, Yes, he is monotonous, but he is always a delight to watch….. Apart from his usual body language, he throws in some delightful extras every time…. Like the bar scene, where he gets up immediately, and walks off, and the way he holds a glass of water and drinks it, in the interview scene, to name a few…. I don’t think the monotony has something to do with his acting, but the characters he gets as you mentioned….. He mostly gets to play the ‘sheep in lion’s clothing’ type mostly….. But still, he is an enjoyable presence…..
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sanjana
March 14, 2016
Yazhini is a tamil name, especially with that zh. Close sounding name Yamini is more universal.
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MANK
March 14, 2016
A brilliant writer donning the Director’s hat is not a good idea. eg: Robert towne, Paul schrader,…
Schrader’s Taxi driver (directed by scorsese) and Hardcore (schrader himself) has pretty much the same subject matter. but there is a night and day difference between the quality of those films. ditto for towne. none of his films like tequilla sunrise or personal best can hold a handle to Chinatown or The last detail.
Closer home K.A. Abbas who wrote the great films of Raj Kapoor could never come up with a film like what he wrote for RK.
I would say that the people who makes the best filmmakers are the ones who are the most technically proficient with a certain literary predigree – Welles, Coppola, Scorsese, Tarantino, Vijay Anand, KB,Manirathnam,…. – who has the ability to break the form of cinema both at the conception and execution stage.
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MANK
March 14, 2016
Nalan is not a pure director like, say, Mysskin or Mani Ratnam — at least on the basis of his two films, he’s much more an ideator and writer than a director. At a formal level, I don’t find much in SK
Brangan, this i agree with. SK was a well crafted screenplay. a better director – with a great visual sense – would have made a truly great film out of it. Apart from very few scenes- like the car taking off and landing in the midst of kids playing cricket at the interval point, or the scene where cops chases VS and co in the car till they reach a dead end – i feel that the directorial flair did not complement the quirkiness of the screen play. much of it was like a flat table reading of the script by actors. it is a testament that how superb the screenplay is that film still works.
i would say RGV’s Kshanam kshanam is a perfect eg of how a director with a great visual flair can boost a concept like SK- with all the kidnappings, stolen loot, crazy cops, mistaken identities. another film that comes to mind is VB’s Kaminey.
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Kid
March 14, 2016
Dr. Srinivas: Firstly thank you for taking pains to explain your position. On the “fascistic” comment, I apologise for it considering I may have been too harsh. But, again with all due respect, let me just paraphrase that bit from your comment “it’s greatness was so blatantly obvious that any other POV seemed off kilter”. When you say stuff like “greatness is so blatantly obvious” and then categorically say that any other POV would be “off kilter” (I mean, even if BR would have been negative on SK in his review, I still don’t know what would so off-kilter about it. In the west you routinely see critics going ahead and criticising, sometimes even mauling, some of the greatest films known to mankind and yet the validity of their views aren’t questioned everytime they go against the grain. And here we are simply talking about which is wildly entertaining at best. this is no Pather Panchali or Iruvar for crying out loud!) I doubt you were really showing much tolerance towards any other POV on the film.
But thank you for the Mamet bit, I had never thought of SK in that manner so your comment on it is certainly insightful (perhaps the analogy would have worked even better had Soodhu Kavvum been a caper/heist film in the true sense.. now that you have introduced the anology, it might also work for Jigarthanda which certainly carries a Mamet like spirit where the director not only cons the character in the film and in turn cons the audience, but also seemingly “revels” in the knowledge of conning the audience..if you know what I mean). On the dialogues, it is certainly true that a lot of the essence is lost in subtitles. But I will revisit the film very soon and will keep an eye (considering I don’t have the “ear” for Tamil) out for the dialogues. Probably I am missing something here. But let me also add this that it is also dangerous to overstate (or over-emphasise) the “native” and “foreigner’ (wrt to Tamil cinema here…but of course it extends to any kind of cinema or art) element because while a native (or the speaker of the language) can of course access a work (and even an actor/star…
I can never “get” Rajini the way a Tamilian can) in ways in which an outsider (non-speaker) would never be able to, I think quite often (and I am not talking about myself here) the outsider is also free from a certain “historical/emotional/cultural” baggage and hence, can be a better listener/observer of that piece of art than the native provided he is willing to be schooled in those arts/matters. The other important thing is that I think is any “important” piece of work should be able to transcend these sort of linguistic/cultural boundaries provided the one who is/are accessing/receiving the work is willing to learn to about it; the best examples in this context is Bala (I didn’t choose Rathnam because then the pan-Indian director bit would come up even if he still remains a very Tamil filmmaker…part of the resistance his work faces in Bombay media is because of the Tamil “feel” in his work)… the minute one sees Naan Kadavul, one realises that while this is of course a very Tamil film, it’s merits aren’t limited to its language (and actually this ties in with my other foreign/native point as well…no Hindi director, none whatsoever, had presented Benaras the way Bala, a “foreigner” to the language and the region region, did in Naan Kadavul. For someone like me who has visited the city so many times, I was shell shocked to see this film give a different meaning to the city).
Now of course I know that not all genres can be easily accessed across cultures (comedy for instance and especially the one which depends on word play…as you mention that might be part of Soodhu Kavvum’s charms), but even here, even with subtitles, the brilliance in dialogues do shine through. How do I know this. Well because I checked out quite a few Malayalam comedies from their golden period (Gandhinagar 2nd Street is the one I enjoyed the most) and here, even with poor subtitling,the brilliance of the work is very visible (of course it helps that Mohanlal at the centre and the supporting cast in some of these films is as good as I have EVER come across in Indian cinema). Let me try and explain this. As you would know, Chupke Chupke is easily one of the finest Hindi comedies. And the word-play and the “politics of languages” is not just an integral part of the film, but it is the very text of the film. And yet I would say that even for someone who doesn’t understand Hindi and is relying on subtitles (of course, it is REALLY important that subtitles are well done), the sharpness of comedy should still come through provided one watches it with attention. But I doubt my assessment of Soodhu Kavvum would change much even on a rewatch (for what it’s worth, the first 15-20 minutes of the film were its strongest bit)
On Mamet btw, I completely agree that he isn’t much of a director. I haven’t seen everything by him, but I think Redbelt might be my favourite work of his inasmuch as working outside the caper/heist genre actually liberated him and he is much better as a director here than in his earlier films ,and yet he was able to include that “deception” bit into the narrative. But what really stood part here that he was able to create something which felt something novel and fresh on the martial-art terrain. It was only fitting that the final fight in the film ended “outside” the ring. And Ejiofor is such a superb actor, really brings a lot of heft and dignity to the role. Also like Spartan, here I think “political thriller” thriller really suited him because a lot of Mamet’s strengths- deception and trickery- are natural for the world of a political thriller (also the quintessential Mamet dialogues, which sometimes feel forced and show-offy because they are repetitive and cold and often sound artificial, seem to belong to the entire military-world of the film. Here the “stabbing” effect of the dialogues actually sets the film apart from other films in the genre) . Otherwise the earlier Mamet films were excellent “contraptions”, all deft and meticulous, but I am not sure they were excellent films. There was a stilted quality to them. But I think with Heist, and I am especially thinking of the superb (and superbly filmed and staged) opening action sequence, Mamet started to become a filmmaker. Spartan is such a kinetic film, there is such great momentum and I think even at the level hoodwinking the audience, this one does it with more finesse (in the sense that it actually maintains an internal logic..it is far more plausible than some of the other films of the genre) than some of the other Mamet films.
On my last sentence, I clearly mentioned “why” (and especially in what context) I believed Dhill, Dhool and Pandiyanaadu are more “important” (I didn’t say they are “better” films than SK actually though I do think that these films are superior examples of their genre than SK). But I don’t know why this statement should be puzzling considering I don’t think much of SK in the first place (and even lesser of Vijay Sethpathi. If Udhayanidhi Stalin is the standard, then he might be a thespian. But if Suriya, Madhavan, Vikram, Dhanush or even Bharath are standards, then good is not a word I would use for him. Then again I am equally surprised by the fact that Abhay Deol is considered a good actor in Bombay. By the way, I actually think that both are very similar sort of actors..they both are good at doing nothing and pretty bad at actually “doing something”).
You might say that my statement doesn’t have any merit, but there is nothing quit surprising about it once you would consider my original position. Let me explain this. Suseenthiran most often works in the genre where visual artistry or strength is hard to come by (in Indian context). In some ways, Suseenthiran is a “hidden auteur” working in the mainstream whose formal skills aren’t always visible on the first go. He is just a very deceptive formal artist. But that he is a fine filmmaker is very visible in his first film. Notice how in a very low key manner, he plays with the aspect ratio in the beginning of the film itself. And then he of course plays with the narrative as well (which he does in some of his other films as well)- he sets a Bharathiraja like atmosphere which plays at a lower pitch (and Rajappattai and Paayum Puli- his poorest films- aside, his films are pitched at a lower scale than the usual films even when he is making a Masala film. This is actually a pretty unique quality, how many Masala filmmakers display this understated quality? Probably none. Gunasekhar did it in Okkadu, but otherwise there is hardly anyone there) and then it suddenly ends with a tragic (and quintessentially Tamilian) twist. But notice how he handles the twist, it is shorn of melodrama and seems far more plausible than the ones in regular films. the twist really creeps up on you. And he still uses a certain lightness of touch in the film. Take Naan Mahaan Alla, again he tries to tweak the masala genre by introducing those really creepy villains (actually a separate could be made just on those villains). He plays with the narrative as well and actually the film (and the hero) tries to resist against the mythical aspect of masala films (there is a certain emphasis gritty realism here…something you might expect in a film like Pudhupettai, but most certainly not in a masala film. Not that realism is a merit/quality in itself). Also check out the kinetic climactic action sequence (very well shot).
In Pandiyanaadu he covers the same masala terrain, but handles it with a much surer hand. Here he does something quite original with the “father of the hero” trope (by the way notice how the film eschews heroism and the mythical). And Pandianaadu is actually technically (and even otherwise) superior to 99% of the masala films being made in India (the chase scene on a wheel-barrow is the prime example, but so are the action sequences). I can’t belabour this point enough- because Masala films sometimes require a “mass aesthetic” (for the want of a better term), it is quite difficult to make it more polished aesthetically and visually (because if you do so you often run the risk of converting a masala film into a Bond film and then the film would lose all its meaning. If you shift too much on the other side and it more gritty and grainy, it becomes like Satya/Pudhupettai). Even in Hindi cinema during the 70s (the golden age of masala cinema), no other masala director other than Ramesh Sippy knew how to make these kind of films cutting edge technically (and Ramesh Sippy did that twice, in Sholay and then in Shaan. Chandra Barot might be another example but that’s about it). So one has to see what one is doing relative to the genre as well. But Suseenthiran is at home in other genres as well- Aadhalal kadhal Seiveer was a flat out terrific film and Suseenthiran showed that he had a far better understanding of romance than most other Tamil directors. But notice for instance the romantic tracks in both Pandiyanaadu and Jeeva- cliched at concept level, but handled so delicately for the most part. Azhagarsamiyin again has such a charming ambience. All of this doesn’t mean that Suseenthiran is Bala, Mysskin, Vetrimaaran or Rathnam…of course not (and I doubt he will ever be). And he can be wildly inconsitent at times. But I do think he can develop into a very fine mainstream filmmaker and his formal strengths shouldn’t be underestimated.
On Dhill and Dhool, I think these are very good films for the genre. I am not too sure if there is a Hindi (or Tamil) film other than Khakee (which is in the league of its own) in the same period (and in the same genre) than these these films (Dhill, Dhool, Pandiyanaadu. Saamy, Okkadu and Samurai will follow these three)
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Kid
March 14, 2016
BR: I will try and reply to some of your points at length a little later, but thanks much for the link to the piece which is one of the best pieces I have read as far as Tamil film industry (and the industry needs lot more introspection on these lines). Lots of interesting points here, especially the Latin American reference vis-a-vis Jigarthanda. And it’s interesting because apart from the obvious Innarritu influence in Yuva, Veyil clearly borrowed more than few things from City of God (chiefly its visual style, musical cues…it influenced some of the characters of the Tamil film as well).
On Bala, I don’t disagree at all. That list was a general one (in the sense the Tamil films I consider the best from that period and so on) and wasn’t specific to any single criteria. The “craft” bit in my comment was only in reference to Soodhu Kavvum.
Oh, yes. Thavamai has such stellar camerawork. And one of the reasons why this facet is missing in other Cheran films (among the ones I have seen) have that is because I think this is the only occasion where Cheran has worked with that DoP (M. S. Prabhu. Not that this guy’s work is excellent throughout his career or anything, but the he hardly works with top drawer directors other than Gautham Menon and even here I doubt he has worked with a director on a consistent basis. ). But I have a great weakness for Cheran’s films. There are not too many directors of his breed left in India. Not that all his films are excellent or anything, but in their strongest moments they are deeply affecting.
On Cheran and craft, I was reminded of the stunning Kanjivaram (no one talks about this film sadly. For instance, how is Soodhu Kavvum better than this film?!). And how superbly shot this film is (as good as anything in modern Tamil cinema). But here is the thing, no other Priyan film (including some of his pretty good Malayalai films) show this kind of formal elegance like the one which is display in Kanjivaram (then again I don’t think he has ever made a better film than this). But really Tirru did an absolutely marvellous job here. I think Priayadarshan is much more at home (in the visual sense) when he is covering a rural terrain (or when he shooting in heartlands like in Aakrosh, this too had some nice technical flourishes and Tirru shot this one as well) than when he is working in urban spaces.
MANK: Thanks for mentioning Kshana Kshanam. And you are right, this is such an underrated film (I don’t even know RGV managed to make something like this in a film industry as cinematic-ally bankrupt as the Telugu one). Here RGV superbly tackles a genre before it is even introduced in Bollywood. And as you as said, this is clearly the work of a director (RGV even in his nascent stage could tackle a variety of genres so brilliantly- Siva, Kshana Kshanam, Raat..what range! And RGV isn’t even at the peak of his strengths here).
Also glad that you mentioned Vijay Anand. Another chameleon when it comes to handling different genres- from musical mysteries like Jewel Thief, Johnny Mera Naam (his best works imo) to a fine social drama like Tere Ghar Ke Saamne to Guide to a noir-tinged Kala Bazaar to even a masala film like Ram Balram. Also someone who actually had a visual sense. But yes what a fine writer, the twist involving the Dev Anand “double” in Jewel Thief was a stroke of genius (and could only come from a very fine pulp writer). Also loved the way he used musical interludes in those mystery films…not every one can get away with that, especially not in a mystery-thriller.
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Ahm Asmi
March 14, 2016
While most people discuss serious stuff here I take exception to your observation about Yazhini – “Yazhini is supposed to represent the little people, who study in obscure little engineering colleges and find the going rough in big cities. Looking at the immaculately made-up and attired Madonna Sebastian, you think: Really?”
I come from an obscure little college myself and we did have beautiful girls studying there.
To stereotype all beautiful girls to SRM or SSN is unfair.
To slightly alter what Yazhini herself said in the film – mokka college layum azhagana ponnunga padippanga sir!!
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Ramchander Krishna (@ramctheatheist)
March 14, 2016
There are several kutti awesome moments in this film.
Remember the film opens with a shot showing the sprawling park mentioning there’s a story behind everyone in that park? In the climax, there’s a similar slow pan of all members of the team that Madonna is the project lead of. Subtly, pushing us to wonder about the stories behind these people, for them to get there.
VS keeps saying “You have to decide that” to the interviewers while delaying them, which works as a little joke. But, it’s also a summary of what the film’s trying to tell us as an audience. What is this relationship that these two people share? What happened to VS & Madonna finally? We have to decide that.
When Madonna’s parents ask VS what he prefers eating. He says organic, which is the same food eaten by that the guy with a cheating wife in the early scenes. Rangan, felt it was similar to the oranges moment you spotted in Soodhu Kavvum. Similar to how oranges worked its way into the story that Bobby Simha later narrates, did organic register in subconscious of VS and work its way into this conversation with Madonna’s parents?
And BR, I vehemently disagree that there’s no character building. The character building in this film is a whole lot different from “traditional” character building. The director keeps applying light brush strokes throughout the film to both characters. There’s character building even in the final interview delaying scene. When VS says opportunities sometimes shouldn’t be missed cos they come once in a lifetime, we get to know about him at that instant too.
And I vehemently disagree to your point about inappropriate casting. The scene in which VS and Murali are walking to kill Samudrakani and just before VS says “Piss adishtu varen”, VS did “something” that made me feel that he’s already reluctant about Murali coming along with him. Now, I cannot pinpoint that “something” as a facial twitch or as a particular walking style, but he conveyed the thoughts in his mind very clearly to me. I think a subtle method of acting is sprouting roots, so please don’t nip it in the bud by equating it with Vijay’s dead pan expressions.
Here’s an alternative theory I’d like to propose about the climax. For me, VS is dead. In the climax, the guy Murali, the sidekick who VS asked to leave, is the only one at the petrol station. It’s Murali who’s finally smiling at Madonna after filling up the petrol. But, she sees VS (and thereby as audience we see VS too), because VS would have led a similar life had he not gone to prison for 5 years by accepting a crime. It’s more like VS in Murali, although she has no clue who Murali is.
And one of the moments that added weight to the film for me was the fact that as I walked out of the theatre, while the end credits rolled over visuals of rain drops, it was raining outside! It was a poetic equivalent to the moment in the film when the same rain showers upon Madonna and VS.
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Dr. Srinivas
March 14, 2016
//now that you have introduced the anology, it might also work for Jigarthanda which certainly carries a Mamet like spirit where the director not only cons the character in the film and in turn cons the audience, but also seemingly “revels” in the knowledge of conning the audience..if you know what I mean)//
I get you but once again, you’ve made me think! 🙂
To me, Mamet revels in the ‘pure’ con whereas I felt KS was far more ambitious with ‘Jigarthanda’ which played out like an array of homages to Films past with heavy detailing. Also, Mamet is THE Master of ‘Gutter poetry’ with wintry wisceracks driven by rhythm. His stylized vitriol and vigorous wordplay have always appealed to the Alpha Male but unlike KS, Mamet has never attempted to subvert the alpha male stereotype in so startling a fashion. But I absolutely agree with ‘revels in the knowledge of conning the audience’. You got it spot on there.
//left and meticulous, but I am not sure they were excellent films. There was a stilted quality to them. But I think with Heist, and I am especially thinking of the superb (and superbly filmed and staged) opening action sequence//
Oh yes, Mamet is an acquired taste and he is defly not everyone’s cup of tea. The ‘stilted’ quality can be attributed to the playwright in him but he is a pure one-off. His contempt for conventional psychology and his penchant for quirky dialogues which give an illusion of realism to the narrative is wholly original. His Films always stand out.
Take ‘Homicide’ for instance. It is a quest for religious/racial identity masquerading as a mystery Thriller. It is perhaps, Mamet’s most ambitious Film ever but even here, the Film is replete with memorable wisecracks, pungent dialogues and his most noxious one-liners that linger on long in the mind after the credits roll. There is just so much to enjoy and savour and like his best ‘cons’, you never see what he doesn’t want you to see (i.e. his limitations as a Director).
Oh Man, don’t remind me of ‘Heist’!! ‘Homicide’ might be his best yet but ‘Heist’ has always been my personal favourite. I still fantasize somebody in Kollywood/Bollywood pull off the ‘Love makes the world go ’round….Love of gold’ quip with as much finesse and effortless nonchalance as Hackman. What an Actor?!?!
//But I will revisit the film very soon and will keep an eye (considering I don’t have the “ear” for Tamil) out for the dialogues. Probably I am missing something here.//
I figured you were a native Tamilian. My bad!!
I’d be interested in knowing how you feel after seeing it again because ‘SK’ has great rewatch potential. I enjoyed it as much the second time and I picked up a few things that I missed on the first watch Which is why I’m slightly biased, I suppose.
Very few Tamil Films have had that effect on me.
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Dr. Srinivas
March 14, 2016
//On Dhill and Dhool, I think these are very good films for the genre//
Didn’t get you here. ‘SK’ is a Neo-Noir comedy. ‘Dhill’ and ‘Dhool’ are very different Films, aren’t they?
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Dr. Srinivas
March 14, 2016
//considering I don’t think much of SK in the first place (and even lesser of Vijay Sethpathi. If Udhayanidhi Stalin is the standard, then he might be a thespian. But if Suriya, Madhavan, Vikram, Dhanush or even Bharath are standards, then good is not a word I would use for him. Then again I am equally surprised by the fact that Abhay Deol is considered a good actor in Bombay. By the way, I actually think that both are very similar sort of actors..they both are good at doing nothing and pretty bad at actually “doing something”).//
Yeah I get you but I disagree here. VS isn’t really versatile. As BR mentioned, his ‘I can’t be bothered to act’ persona is hugely limiting and even mildly irritating sometimes when he presents it everywhere but in ‘SK’, it works big time.
I haven’t really seen Suriya, Madhavan, Vikram et al dabble in a pure Noir comedy a la ‘SK’. VS is damned lucky that way.
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Dr. Srinivas
March 14, 2016
Agree with your take on Suseenthiran completely. I thought the last few minutes of ‘Naan Mahaan Alla’ were superbly done too. Definite talent but he has made some bad mistakes as well.
Saw the Film today. Was a bit disappointed with the First half. Second half worked big time. A li’l bit of a letdown but considering his previous Film, one can live with it.
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brangan
March 15, 2016
Dr.Srinivas: Absolutely no offence taken. We’re having a discussion here. We aren’t always going to agree. If you felt I did not rave about SK the way you felt I should have, that is what you felt. Why apologise for that? 🙂
About your question, which I prefer: “A brilliant writer donning the Director’s hat or an Ace Director helming slightly inferior material? ”
It would be the latter. Because a director’s job is the most underestimated one in Tamil cinema. It involves so many things — the pitch of the performances, where music comes in (and how much music is needed, and what kind of music is needed), tone/texture, staging and movement (using screen space, from left to right, from back to front, i.e. depth; we see so few directors use “depth”), the mood of the movie (selecting a mood, keeping it consistent), a few dozen other things — all of which go towards the FORM. The writing is the CONTENT, and what the director achieves (by himself and by communicating his vision to his collaborators) is this FORM, and this is very important for me. (udhaysankar, hope that answers at least a bit of your question).
Can a film work without these formal elements? Sure. The way some Bhagyaraj or Visu films work — simply due to the writing and nothing else. I enjoy these crude films too. But you asked what I prefer, and ideally the film should be well-written AND well-directed. But if it’s an either/or, I’d tilt towards the directing side.
Let me explain with an example about writing. Can someone make sense with just a series of bullet points? Sure. And they may be terrific bullet points. But above this CONTENT, I like FORM — I like a certain writing style, I like panache, I like someone taking the risk of writing a really long sentence and breaking the rhythm with a really short one, I like to be surprised and dazzled…
Deepak: Just going by the bare outline of the story, I wonder how good was the South Korean movie
Yeah, I wonder about that too. With films like this one or Thoongavanam, you wonder if some undefinable core strength (that made the originals work) is lost in translation. I keep wanting to see the originals, just not getting the time 🙂
Ahm Asmi: The point isn’t whether beautiful girls exist in these colleges. The point isn’t whether someone like Catherine Tresa can live in that housing colony in Madras. The point isn’t whether someone as fair and refined-looking as Kamal can exist in that village in Virumandi. The point is whether the actor convinces you about this aspect.
At no point did Madonna Sebastain convince me. That interview-humiliation scene came off as very fake to me, because looking at her, you don’t see “loser who can be humiliated.”
I look at her and get these qualities: self-possessed, strong, someone who can give it back. And I think the character called for an actress who can project tentativeness, helplessness, the quality of being lost.
So I’m not saying that a beautiful girl cannot be tentative, helpless, lost, or from a small college in a small town. I’m saying that within the limited span of a movie, she has to convince us she is these things, and Madonna Sebastian did not do this for me. The point isn’t whether she’s a good actress. She certainly may be. But just because you’re a good actress doesn’t mean you can play every part. Sometimes, one’s physicality gets in the way.
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udhaysankar
March 15, 2016
Br, thanks for those points. But, for a script like soodhu kavvum is there a scope for implementing such visual aesthetics?. Cause the script is talky in nature and it might not work as effectively as it does in other scripts.
Regarding screen-space about back to front, I kept thinking of directors in Tamil Cinema who use that. And was instantly reminded of a shot from Iruvar where Prakash Raj, takes the hand of mohan Lal who is in his hospital bed and takes him to the window where there are millions of supporters shouting in unison. This experience was very new for me and I wondered what is so good about it. Now, I have the answer.
But then, wouldn’t it interfere with your normal viewing experience as you would start evaluating something rather than experiencing it?.
I ought to read more books on the craft of making a film. I tried to read one on cinematography and it was way too technical. I’d die for a book which explains the technicalities of a scene wrt to it’s purpose. So far, I’ve only been through YouTube tutorials and blogs they don’t seem to go farther than glossing over the obvious aspects.
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Kid
March 15, 2016
udhaysankar:
“But, for a script like soodhu kavvum is there a scope for implementing such visual aesthetics?. Cause the script is talky in nature and it might not work as effectively as it does in other scripts.”-
I know you are having a dialogue with BR so apologies for butting-in, but I had to say this- Soodhu Kavvum is exactly the kind of film where one gets the opportunity of technical show-boating. Similar films (in the same genre) around the world have often used the plot as a mere excuse to string together fantastically staged set-pieces and to showcase visual panache (Tarantino’s films are as talkie as they get and yet stretches of them only sometime involve showboating of the craft). And it doesn’t make to see how Soodhu Kavvum not only borrow wholesale a genre from the west, but also the fact that this film’s entire visual rhyme, editing choices etc have such unmistakable western influences. And here is the problem, once you remove some of the Tamil pop-cultural embellishments (and some adjustments for the milieu), there is nothing quite “Tamil” about this film. Infact with some minor chances (and in the hands of a proper filmmaker), one could easily remake this in Bollywood and could actually even make a better film here.
Now I wouldn’t say the same about Jigarthanda (a film which is streets ahead of Soodhu Kavuum and not just in craft though I know BR prefers SK over this as a complete film)- here too you have world cinema influences (including of course Tarantino), but this is also, first, a very Tamil film. In other words, you can’t simply do a remake of this in Bollywood because in that case it would become a very different film (it perhaps can be remade, but a great deal of thought would have to be put in it. ANd certainly can’t be a straight remake with changes done for the Hindi milieu).
In Hindi context, I will say the same for Gangs of Wasseypur (again a film with all sort of influences from masala movies to world cinema to the usual suspects and yet it is a film seeped in Hindi ethos and culture. And the bollywood references are not just embellishments, they are the very “reason” for the existence and the main text of this film)
Actually a masala and probably if one is making a satire or something, one has to be slightly careful about visual aesthetics. Because while there is no excuse for less than competent level of formal craftsmanship, you can’t overdo it because Masala has his own aesthetics. That’s why when Farhan remakes Don as some sort of Bond-like thriller with all the visual slickness (and to Farhan’s credit, they aren’t too many directors in India who are technically this good), the film’s meaning completely changed.
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brangan
March 15, 2016
kid: Just want to add that a film can be well-directed even if there’s no “showboating.” The choices can be “invisible” and it can still be a very well-directed film wrt the points I made in the comment above.
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Kid
March 15, 2016
BR: Oh I know. I was saying “showboating” because this is the sort of genre where directors use it as an opportunity to display their technical craft.
I think Rathnam (sticking to Tamil directors) often uses these stylistic choices in a deceptive way (though of course he can let him loose as and when he wants to…Thalapathi and the entire Kurosawa inspired song-sequence comes to mind instantly). But Kanjivaram is another great example of a superbly directed film. Sticking to Soodhu Kavvum’s genre, as MANK mentioned, RGV did it fantastically in Kshana Kshanam.
But to take this point forward, the best of directors employ those visual and stylistic choices which not only complement the narrative and subject matter, but also sometime arise out of the narrative (and often the polemics and the ideology) of the film. Rathnam is one example, but RGV is another where the camera often imitates the anarchic world of his films. But equally often, like in the Sarkar films, the camera starts “imposing” itself upon the central characters (those extended close-ups of Bachchans) and extends the “power” (and the struggle for “power”) in those films. In other words, the camera tries to impose itself upon the viewer as the Bachchan imposes himself onto the world of those films. Just one example, but his career is strewn with things like these. Of course RGV in these film isn’t going for subtlety (in any sense).
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MANK
March 15, 2016
Kid,that is exactly true about SK. if the director has the talent , he can open up the film, as you mentioned about Tarantino and others especially RGV’S Kshanam kshanam. another instance where RGV did it really well is anaganaga oka roju. that was also a film in the vein of SK and kshanam kshanam.superbly shot and without ‘showboating’. because there are so many ways to stage even dialogue sequences. just take the road side tea stall sequence. you have Urmila and chakravarthi talking to each other with the bunch of goons eve teasing her in the background. then the fight breaks out resulting in the explosion of the tea stall , then both of them escape in a car. but the scene does not end there. we have the goons chase them down in bikes – which is a superb chase scene btw- and when they finally overpower the last goon , the guy in the back seat of their car pops out and they – and we – realise that the guy is dead. that entire sequence is so brilliantly staged and so cinematic without showing off.the way the dialogue and actions bits are cut together is just perfect.
you know t Maneesh sharma coming out of nowhere to make Band baja baarat is nothing compared with the splash that RGV made with Siva in the technically stone age telugu cinema.if you see the state of chiranjeevi – balayya movies that were made at the time, it is nothing short of miracle. i think RGV from Siva to company was his growth phase, perhaps company was his peak. a perfect mix of style and substance. after that he started becoming too much obsessed with style , and not just style, but a form of creepy repulsive style which reached its epitome with Department , when you just cant take it no more. it is impossible to believe that this was the same director who made all those technically brilliant masterpieces early on his career.
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MANK
March 15, 2016
But then, wouldn’t it interfere with your normal viewing experience as you would start evaluating something rather than experiencing it?
Udhayashankar, just 2 words for you Citizen Kane :), that’s the pioneering film in deep focus photography and i dont think it is unintentional that Rathnam used it so elaborately in Iruvar, which is his own Citizen Kane. As for evaluation against experience, well that depends a lot on both the filmmaker – on how much he can seamlessly mesh this style with the subject material at hand- and the viewer – on how he approaches his film viewing process.the main reason for disconnect with MR since roja is mainly because his films have been going easy on the narrative construction and emotional impact and not because they have been becoming too glossy or polished. Thalapathi was very glossy product, but it packed real emotional wallop. it also had the backing of very familiar mythology. even Nayagan and agninakshathram were technically advanced film for its time.
P.S. A really good book that i can recommend is Sidney lumet’s – Serpico,dog day afternoon- book MAKING MOVIES- that is if you can get it.
i remember reading it a long time ago and was totally mesmerised by it. he explains in detail why he chooses a certain lense, a certain camera angle,lighting,…. etc for a particular scene and so on….
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MANK
March 15, 2016
That’s why when Farhan remakes Don as some sort of Bond-like thriller with all the visual slickness (and to Farhan’s credit, they aren’t too many directors in India who are technically this good), the film’s meaning completely changed.
Absolutely true. DON was the height of indian masala.there was a hell of a lot of problems with the new version. First it was the color.there was no way those bondish steely gray hues and techno blue & green colors that Farhan employed was going to work for this . it needed to have our color like the earlier DON had. the second was the pace and the tone. no way was the slow pace and the cold tone going to work. its got to be hot and spicy and has to be fast paced. that’s why thalapathi and agninakshathram worked so well. that’s why Siva and kshanam kshanam worked so well. both RGV and Mani are perhaps the first post modernistic masala filmmakers. they took their cues and elements from the old masala films and rearranged it with a modern technical sensibility and style without disturbing the structure that made masala so great in the first place – especially the colorful mythical aspect of it.
And about the discussion on SK and the choice between a well directed movie as opposed to a well written movie reminds me of Tiruda tiruda – on which RGV collaborated, in fact the climatic train fight is straight away taken from kshanam kshanam- . i know that TT is one of lesser of Mani’s works. not so well conceived. but what a spectacular show he put up.it was so brilliantly innovative visually . the way he used music and sound . it was just great. given a choice between watching SK and TT – and me being a person who primarily watches a film to experience cinema as opposed to seeing a good story- i will always plump for the latter anytime.
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KayKay
March 16, 2016
Kid: Bravo! Loved your points. See, I like SK. A lot!! But I agree it’s only groundbreaking and awesome if you haven’t been exposed to a lot of “heist/caper” movies of the West. In fact, SK is for me so Guy Ritchie-esque in it’s lighter take on a bunch of bumbling misfits, while Jigarthanda is more “Tarantino-like” in both it’s sudden bursts of violence and cinema itself being an organic driver of the plot (it resembles Inglorious Basterds the most in this aspect). Good movies. But awesome to the point that renders all criticism of it moot? Please.
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KayKay
March 16, 2016
“Somehow I seem to have missed the announcement that Vijay Sethupathi vs Dhanush is the new Rahman vs Raja.”
B, let it go. Kamal Vs Rajini & Ajith Vs Vijay is all played out at this stage. Rahman Vs Raja will lie dormant until ARR releases a superlative score and you give it effusive praise, prompting the hordes of Raja lovers to come storming out of the woods in righteous anger.
And Dhanush Vs Simbhu at this point would be extremely one-sided given the Little Superstar’s horrendous luck at the Box-office currently.
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udhaysankar
March 16, 2016
Kid:I’m partly disappointed that you have convinced me about the ordinariness of SK in terms of its ‘direction’, cause I loved the film. But, thanks for your points and it has been a eye-opening thread for me.
P. S: I will watch kshanam kshanam and get back to you. 🙂
Mank:Thanks for the link of the book. I’ll try to buy it online. I am yet to watch Citizen Kane, having read a lot about it everywhere on the Internet. Paathuralaam, adhula appadi enna dhaan irukku-nu. :-).
Your points about MR are bang on. The narrative construction sometimes is bland and it seems to move nowhere. But, that is negated by his use of popular broad-spectrum tropes.
1) Terrorism. (Roja, Dil se)
2)Hindu-Muslim tensions(Bombay)
3)Dravidian Politics, Rivalry between Mgr and MK(Iruvar)
4)Love, with no specific variation. (Alaipayuthey).
5)Gangsters and the classic question of being bad for ‘goodness’ sake.(Nayagan And Thalapathy).
6) Mahabaratam(thalapathy).
7) Youth in politics. (ayutha eluthu).
8) war and it’s effects. (Kannathil muthamittal).
9) Capitalism and the growth of a country wrt to the growth of a nation. (guru)
10) Character analysis of raavanan, in a new light.
11)Living-in relationships(OKK)
Each one of these subjects is so juicy, that a well constructed narrative can work marvelously in-terms of forward momentum, visceral experience, emotional level without being manipulative and also work on a formal level too, in terms of form and artistic ambition I.e be horizontal and vertical at the same time as BR says earlier in this thread. But, they don’t.
Jigarthanda, which also deals with a broader subject at it’s heart. Art Vs commercial, Violence Vs brains, Reversal of character traits, etc. It manages to leave you entertained with the narrative and also achieves it’s artistic ambitions(at least partly).
Consider Dev D. It achieves it’s artistic ambitions without dismissing the narrative and gets us involved more in-tune with its characters on a emotional level than MR does usually in his later films.
The sharpness or the bite in the narrative is his major disadvantage that restrains him from achieving popular success with the mainstream audience. Not that he hasn’t had success with the mainstream audience, just not to the extent to which he could have.
Another put-off with Mr is his resoluteness to be always high-brow or niche with his narrative.
1) A thug as dirty as madhavan is not as dirty as he should be. Madhavan’s dialogues sound as if they have been written by college professor compelled to write dialogues for a gangster film at gunpoint.
2) someone like ‘gurukant desikant’ has to be streetsmart and wrt his business ambitions. Yet, we don’t get this ‘ruthlessness’ as effectively as say Daniel day Lewis is ‘there will be blood’. He seems to come off as loveable godfather than as a businessman.
3)In OKK why not give us more scene in regard to the conflicts between the younger and older generation wrt. Living in with a partner. That was the most interesting aspect of the film that could have sharpened the narrative. And yet again he just glosses over it.
And I can go on and on.
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Srinivas R
March 16, 2016
“And Dhanush Vs Simbhu at this point would be extremely one-sided given the Little Superstar’s horrendous luck at the Box-office currently.”
Simbhu has a(lousy) movie released once in 3 years and then we are told stories of his romance and break ups for the rest of the time. I do pity him for the way he was hounded for the non-controversy, but it’s difficult to take an actor seriously when we hardly get to see him in movies.
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Gradwolf
March 16, 2016
While I am a fan of SK, I do wonder what SK did so well that Aaranya Kandam did not to make the former such a well loved hit while the latter is still in an underground cult oblivion. It could well be purely business. But as singular films, both had no stars, no great names attached behind the screens. As Kid spoke about Kanjivaram, I wonder if in recent times AK is the film belonging to a genre everyone instantly develops a liking, a film everyone we spoke to said they liked, a film that spoke to non-Tamils when it came out and while being etched in its Tamil world, could work internationally too without heavy translation. But nobody really talks about AK that way. Maybe Kumararaja’s subsequent disappearance is a factor but that is a film that never comes up when talking about the new age Tamil films with indie directors and, in many cases now, VS and Santhosh Narayanan/Sean Roldan contributing. (I know BR just mentioned AK in the comment but in a broad sense, dont see much of it).
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Amit Joki
March 16, 2016
Srinivas R: and the irony is ever since Thangamagan released, any post regarding Dhanush’s next heroine is announced, STR fans comment disgusting things like
Ivalayum vechu seyya poran
Indha padathula lip lock pannadhra ollipichan
keerthy suresh paavamda.. (wrt to his next where she is the lead)
The things that Simbu does off screen is invisible to their eyes and romancing in front of technicians, crew, lightings for the sake of script according to them is bad.
Dhanush seems to have got increasing haters now(his physicality itself is being trolled lots of times much to my dismay) just because of the fact that there were some intimate looking scenes in Thangamagan, as I can see even Ajith and Vijay fans commenting the earlier shit in lots of nasty variations.
Some people of the audience like these guys should really become mature to treat art as art.
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KayKay
March 16, 2016
Gradwolf: Is there even a proper DVD of AK released? All I could manage was a crappy bootleg off the Net. One reason why this movie’s reach was severely limited. Which is a shame because it deserves to be seen. It’s the closest Tamil Cinema has come to “Pure Noir” which also means it refused to give it’s assholes a comic and lovable sheen ala SK which may have limited it’s appeal.
Don’t know what the story with AK is. Heard there were problems with the Production with some massive falling out among its makers. A crying shame.
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Srinivas R
March 16, 2016
@Gradwolf – My theory is that not many saw AK in the first place. It had a very short stay at the multiplexes. SK had a much better run. For Tamil films, if you miss it during it’s theatrical run, it can be very frustrating experience trying to catch up later, especially if you stay in India. Despite my indifference towards Hindi cinema, I must say they are more accessible ( in terms of availability of DVDs with subtitles etc.) than regional cinema.
SK also had the advantage of being top lined by Vijay Sethupathi, thanks to Pizza and NKPK there was a genuine curiosity about what he will come up with next.
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udhaysankar
March 16, 2016
Not many tamils outside the film-buffs circuit saw the film. The promotions for the movie at the time of it’s release was nil. Apart from a glowing review by Madan in vikatan, the general public had no other sources of reviews. Word of mouth was very poor. It wasn’t a crowd pleasing film. The social-media, especially Facebook and Twitter wasn’t as popular as it is now. One of the main reasons Jigarthanda a similar film had some mainstream success was the presence of fb and Twitter.
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udhaysankar
March 16, 2016
*regarding my earlier comment
Guru-growth of a man in a new free independent India and capitalism.
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Karthik
March 16, 2016
This guy seems to have very little stuff to make a movie adapted from Korean. And the movie isn’t even OK. VS character was almost similar to the one in Soodhu kavvum. Movie doesn’t have an endpoint at all. Nalan will fade if he doesn’t break this limitation of doing the same thing again.
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Amit Joki
March 16, 2016
Udhaysankar: If you buy that book, could you generously share with me, the pdf version that amazon generally offers with hard cover books? 😀😁
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brangan
March 16, 2016
On Lumet and ‘Making Movies’:
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udhaysankar
March 16, 2016
Amit: Sorry, but I prefer paperback to ebooks. 🙂
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moi
March 16, 2016
Ok… all you geeks…. Couldn’t just go see the movie without trying to over-intellectualize it… huh? Lemme be the voice of the common (wo)man and try to talk about the awesomeness of VS. Haven’t seen the movie yet… but from the trailer, it looks like a different take on the rowdy movie….. How awesome and addictive are those beats in the track playing in the trailer…
Happy to see all the love for VS by some commenters up in the thread…. and here I thought I was taking up for the underdog that not many people know of, when I was going on about him in the Sethupathi thread…. how clueless of me!!
(No) thanks to everyone for spoiling his appeal for me… I see VS in this trailer after reading the review and the comments and I am thinking he is so laid back/ monotonous/limited in range…. (Yup… I am swayed THAT easily)
It’s OK… As long as he doesn’t decide to go all yo, spike his hair, wax his eyebrows and do a Bollywood-esque dance sequence with Hansika or something… I will keep rooting for him.
And because I am still in the rowdy movie hangover, this video has to fit in this thread by six degrees of separation or something….. Cover by Harmeet Singh….His tamil diction is pretty good for a Singh….right?
OK…now all you big boys can go back to discussing Lumet and korean movies and pure noir and free independent India and capitalism and world peace….
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Amit Joki
March 16, 2016
Reg that link, thanks BR. It was a nice read and more over read summary of Making Movies is very fascinating. So BR, and others, if you have a link to, or have the PDF version of the same, could you please do me a favor by sending it to me?
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Ravi K
March 17, 2016
I’ve only seen Soodhu Kavvum two, maybe three times, and while the direction wasn’t super-stylized, I thought it was fine. There are a few bits here and there I thought were particularly well put together, such as Ramesh Thilak’s one-take speech, him telling the story of driving the Jaguar, Bramma’s intro montage, and the night-vision goggles sequence. Overall I thought the comedy was fairly well-directed in the sense that it didn’t have the usual “point the camera at the actors and turn it on” sensibility. I wouldn’t group it with the other Tamil films that truly do not have any directorial vision.
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Ravi K
March 17, 2016
KayKay wrote: “Is there even a proper DVD of AK released? All I could manage was a crappy bootleg off the Net.”
Nope. I saw an incomplete festival submission screener DVD of AK. It had temp music, temp VFX, no color correction or proper sound mixing. The upside is that it probably was uncut compared to whatever the CBFC cleared. Even in this very rough form I thought it was fantastic.
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Prasad
March 17, 2016
“Lumet understood that filmmaking was, above all, a collaborative craft, and nothing – not even his movies, many of them effortlessly warranting that problematic qualifier”
Excellent link. Lot’s of interesting points in the discussion. Another interesting aspect is the peaking of directors. Lumet signed off in style by making “Before the Devil knows you’re dead” at age 80…..I mean just amazing. it’s a very underrated movie but outstanding direction, acting and Lumet in full song.
How could these greats are able to keep maintaining their level of excellence even when they age ?
Scorscesse “Wolf of wall street” at 70+ …look at the energy in the film . Eastwood and Spielberg too. Not comparing them with our directors. How come some of our directors lose their way so soon. So many examples has been has been quoted in this blog,,,RGV, Cheran,,Sasikumar…even we can include Farhan. Some of them are one movie wonders and some have completely lost their way. We can also include our KB’s and Bharathiraja who struggled during later part of their career.
WHat could be the reason people lose their way so early in their career? People have access to world cinema to understand the trends across the globe. Still we just have a handful of people like Myskin or a Karthik Subburaj or a Shoojit Circar who have some kind of consistency and are not just one movie wonders.
Any thoughts?
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Hermoine Granger
March 17, 2016
Interesting points BR. The very things that make you think that Madonna Sebastian was not appropriately cast made me feel the opposite. She is from a small town, but does not hesitate to step into a local roadside stall for breakfast. She continues to stay back in Chennai after the indecent proposal. She does not hesitate to make small talk with VS when she moves in and later does not have any reservations in pushing him to reach her goals. Her character needed that chutzpah to survive her ordeal. I guess she could have used a scene or two with an old nightie and disheveled hair at home.
Also excellent point by justsomebody on how VS makes the dialogues sound like they are spoken by a real-life person. I’ve often wondered whether he rephrases dialogues to suit him (and what his accent is!)
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MANK
March 17, 2016
Brangan\Gradwolf , How does Mysshkin’s trailblazer Anjaathe stack up these days ?. wasnt it like the Bonnie and Clyde of Tamil indie cinema – failed after initial release, then re released again to great success and critical acclaim-. i was quite blown away when i saw that film for the first time with its mixture of noir procedural, de palmesque lengthy ground level tracking shots and sergio leone\Kursowa inspired ritualistic violence. Does it still merit mention in critical circles or is Mysskin more synonymous with onnayiyum attinkuttiyum these days.
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Ravi K
March 17, 2016
Prasad, that’s a good question. K. Balachander’s most fertile period was the 70s and 80s, but he was so prolific that it’s okay that he wasn’t directing masterpieces in his later years.
Besides KB, the only directors I can think of with very long careers are Satyajit Ray, Singeetham Srinivasa Rao, K. Vishwanath, and GV Iyer.
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Ravi K
March 17, 2016
Oh, and Yash Chopra and Raj Kapoor. How could I forget them?
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Gradwolf
March 17, 2016
MANK: Anjathe is a personal favorite. It is unpopular in these circles (cough) to say this but that year, I thought Anjathe was the far better film even though Subramaniapuram walked away with all the laurels. It can be said that Subramniapuram was the purer film, Anjathe a far rawer version of a filmmaker just about warming up. I can’t point my finger as to why that is – is it because Subramaniapuram was organic while Mysskin is the showy one comparatively, but Anjathe just worked. Which is ironic considering how BR called Mysskin the purer filmmaker above, which is true now that we have several films of his to cite, but a lot of formal things came together in Subramaniapuram. It’s also interesting that absolutely no one came out of Subramniapuram to become next big whatever, Sasikumar or Jai (fondly remembering Rangan’s cry for what Kamal of 80s would have done with this role) or James Vasanthan (gone from Raaja’s biggest fan to biggest hater of Raaja. But that’s for another thread!). Maybe Samuthirakani. I love that guy’s acting! I have to watch Anjathe again to convey this better, it’s been a long time. But also hindsight tells us all we need to know about who came out as the better filmmaker and also as an auteur, like BR mentioned – was Subramaniapuram a fluke? We can never tell.
About Onnaiyum, I don’t know. I liked the film but I rank Yuddham Sei and Pisaasu way above OA. I’d say Myssking is now synonymous with Anjaathe/YS/Pisaasu at the moment. OA is more like an extremely well done experiment from him. YS on the other hand is some stellar work, both in terms of writing and direction, and it marries his tendency to showboat, meditate on philosophy etc with mainstream tropes quite beautifully.
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sanjana
March 17, 2016
I think Dasari Narayana Rao also had quite a long career with potboilers to his credit. In bollywood, Mahesh Bhatt or Bhatt brothers.
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Nari
March 17, 2016
Prasad. I would not put Karthik subburaj in the same line as Mysskin or shoojit sircar. He is just 2 films old. His consistency can be judged only after 2 or 3 more films.
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brangan
March 17, 2016
To add to Gradwolf’s point, Mysskin’s appeal — at least for me — is how he swings wildly between sometimes-amateur-level theatrics to cool sophistication. Sometimes within the same scene 😀
I just love it when directors throw the kitchen sink at you. Some things stick. Some don’t. But I’d rather have too much happening than too little.
Also, about the “showboating” point, I don’t find it a problem at all. If it’s empty showboating, then yes — it’s basically the director jerking off and it’s annoying. But Mysskin’s films always have a theme, a reason behind the showboating. Even Mugamoodi, which — the more I see it — I believe failed because the actors could not do justice to Mysskin’s characters. He’s kind of like Bhansali that way. He needs a Ranveer Singh to get him, get the character. Jiiva and Naren played it too straight. I sometimes feel Mysskin does better with the face-frozen non-actors like Naga — who are just a blank slate and we can project whatever Mysskin-isms we want on them.
Here are some Mysskin-related links:
An interview
Pisaasu
On the difficulty in writing about background scores after a first viewing
Onaayum Aattukkuttiyum
Mugamoodi
Anjaathey
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baytacosmico
March 17, 2016
@Amit Joki – Assuming you live in Chennai, the Anna Centenary library in Kotturpuram has Making Movies, along with tons of other great books on cinema. It’s a pretty small book and can easily be read in one or two sittings. Better option than reading a pirated pdf. 🙂
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baytacosmico
March 17, 2016
I think SK doing better than AK can be simply boiled down to the fact that the former had more straightforward humour as opposed to AK’s black humour. Tamil movies and comedy seem to go hand in hand these days. What sentiment was for movies in the 80s and 90s, comedy is now. And by comedy is meant stuff that you can laugh out loud to. Black humour doesn’t do that. It just makes you grin at most. And that’s not good enough. Which is sad because it’s often the cleverer of the two.
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Amit Joki
March 17, 2016
Baytacomsimco: Unfortunately, I am in Madurai 😢😢😢 I am mostly sure that libraries here won’t be hosting such books by such authors.
That was why scouring the net for PDF version and haven’t gotten lucky yet.
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MANK
March 18, 2016
Gradwolf\Brangan, thanks a lot for your views and for the links. i pretty much agree with whatever you said about Mysshkin. i liked Anjaathe better than OA, even though i am aware that OA has better craft and a more well rounded sophisticated product. Anjaathe had a real emotional wallop especially in the second half when he piles up manhunt after manhunt for the kidnapped girls. i pretty much had my heart in my mouth all through the section which rarely happens while watching tamil films. the chases were brilliantly shot with a super BGM on par with hollywood films. Honestly i liked all his films including Mugamoodi, which i thought was quite a unique super hero film – with a heroine who spits and the super hero who urinates in full cape & mask- with a futuristic approach. And agree about the actors too. that IMO is the weak link in all his films. i cant remember a single brilliant performance for a filmmaker who creates such unique eccentric characters.
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Kid
March 18, 2016
Amit Joki: I am not sure if it is still there, but I had seen the Lumet book on Torrent websites sometime back. You could download it from there.
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Iswarya
March 18, 2016
Amit Joki: Pirated books are generally my last resort. But once I find that no legal copy is accessible, I always check http://www.bookzz.org. I just checked and the Lumet book is very much there; not a PDF though. Give it a shot, if you like.
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Prasad
March 18, 2016
” I would not put Karthik subburaj in the same line as Mysskin or shoojit sircar. He is just 2 films old. His consistency can be judged only after 2 or 3 more films.”
@ Nari.
I think Karthik Subburaj is a important film maker for tamil now. He may not be a Mysskin but he has his own style and especially “Jigarthanda” is one of the best movie experience I had me in recent times. There are some comments on Directors who draw the best or worst out of actors and in the way he got the best out out of Bobby SImha and others is Jigarthanda is a rarity in Tamil cinema. The dark humour, twists and especially the music are out of the world!.Even his movie productions like “Bench Talkies” and “Aviyal” is a commendable effort. These movies were not that great but the intentional is laudable. From that perspective I think he is in the right direction and he is still young.
Agreed that he still has to to prove a lot.But personally , can’t wait to see his next movie “Iravi” with Vijay Sethupathi and Bobby.
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brangan
March 18, 2016
Amit Joki: Check your email. Pranesh, here, has just made the nicest gesture and gifted you a Kindle copy of the book 🙂
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Gradwolf
March 18, 2016
Bayta: Yes that’s true and I get that. But SK does have the black humor in many places. I think the film intelligently wraps it around a cloak of broad laugh out loud humor. I mean only after multiple viewings did I notice Bobby Simha’s character telling Ashok Selvan’s character, “avolo sogama ellam illa machi, needhan theva illama romba feel panra nenaikaren”. I mean you don’t laugh out loud immediately but it tells you so much about the kind of characters you see here and the kind of film it is. Terrific line in a terrific situation! (Ashok Selvan changes his mind and returns to join their kidnapping ring, after learning he’s been black listed and cannot easily get a corporate job). Which makes me think there are several such moments in KaKaPo. And why I want to watch it again. The complains about KaKaPo too remind me of similar complaints that another underrated black comedy received – Mumbai Express. That it is slow, it is not laugh out loud funny (it also has to do with Kamal’s terrible idea of marketing it – they kept referring to MX as on the lines of MMKR) and that it is all dry humor.
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MANK
March 18, 2016
Gradwolf, i think Mumbai Express works much better in the hindi version than the tamil version, you know like Hey Ram
Bad marketing was also one of the reasons.another thing was ,it opened against chandramukhi, so that pretty much killed its chances at the BO.
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Amit Joki
March 18, 2016
Brangan: Yes, indeed. I was amused to your email today.
Pranesh: Millions of thanks! I couldn’t have imagined even my relatives making that kind of a gesture.
I am deeply touched and thanks again on the gift. It will be one, that I will cherish.
Iswarya: Thanks a lot. That website is a huge resource for me.
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baytacosmico
March 18, 2016
@Gradwolf – You’re exactly right about the wrapping up of the subtle touches in broad humour that was easily accessible. That was the key to SK’s success imo. I still haven’t had a chance to catch KaKaPo, so I’ll get back to you on that when I do. Mumbai Express is actually a good movie to compare AK with. Both had the same problems with not being immediately satisfying comedies.
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udhaysankar
March 18, 2016
Mank : Regarding shiva, I heard somewhere that RGV wanted to narrate his story to Nagarguna, and went to his studio.
But, there nagarjuna wanted him to do a commercial film. Then, RGV sat in the garden for half-an-hour and came up with Shiva. Stuff of pure legend.
Here is a video of Rajamouli speaking about it. Though it is full of flab, he explains the immediate effect of Shiva on himself and mainstream telugu audience.
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udhaysankar
March 18, 2016
Gradwolf: There was another clever conversation after intermission in SK that I missed the first time. Arumai take the money and runs away.
As sekar lifts kesavan out of the car wreck.
Kesavan:Dei, arumai engadaa?
Sekar:hmm… Soda vaanga poirkaan daa.
Kesavan : soda laam ethuku machi, venaam daa. (with real earnestness).
Sekar:Dei, loosu kaasu eduthutu oditaan daa.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
March 18, 2016
Iswarya: Thanks for the link. That’s like a treasure map!
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Iswarya
March 19, 2016
Honest Raj: Survival strategies picked up while doing research on a shoestring budget sitting in a third-world country 😉 Sometimes, learning about these bylanes feels like the real knowledge gathered at the end of the day.
Amit: Thanks. And congrats. 🙂
Glad this blog has gone back to being the nicest little online adda, as ever.
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SJ
March 19, 2016
Amit Joki: do you know of any theatres in Madurai playing this movie with English subtitles? Am a non-Tamil speaking fan of SK and might be in Madurai for a day soon!
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Amit Joki
March 20, 2016
SJ: I don’t think it is playing with subs but do try out Inox theatre, you might get lucky.
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Dr. Srinivas
March 21, 2016
Agree with Gradwolf regarding Mysskin. I thought the first half of YS was dazzling. The way the investigations played out (the piecemeal accumulation of vital info worked big time), the haunting score, the brusque but revealing convos, Jayaprakash as ‘Judas’ (nice subversive touch there)….heck even Cheran’s brooding persona worked. OA didn’t work as well for me.
Still think ‘Anjaathe’ is his best work till date though. Rawer yes, but more affecting.
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Sun
March 27, 2016
I don’t know if it’s just in my head but I have a much darker take on this story especially given Nalan’s nuanced writing in Soodhu Kavvum… I see this movie(Ka Ka Po) as a cynical commentary on how doomed and hopeless inter-socioeconomic-strata-romance is in reality… The female lead, Yazhini, belongs to a Middle Class family and is happily on her way up the socioeconomic ladder but less-than-favourable circumstances force her to come into contact with the lower class… Whereas the male lead, Kathir, is born and bred in the ghettos and is trying to break out of the oppression of the owner-class that his family has faced for 3 generations and is trying to become an owner himself… But this ambition of his is kept in check by his boss…. He has this sense of exasperation towards how the higher-class folk flaunt their entitlement and exclusivity which come out in dialogues like “enga area la kadaya pottu engalaye vara venanu solluviya? panakaara payyan na summa uttudava la” and “naaya? naana?”…
But at the same time he’s not so wise and above it all… He is attracted to Yazhini but probably controlling his desires since he is mature enough to not attempt snatching it like the slum kids who just cant take the temptation of the consumerist exhibitions since they have no access to it… However Kathir is slowly drawn into this quagmire of potential complications and is unable to resist the bait when he can have a taste of what’s generally out of reach… At the same time, Yazhini is looking for protection in this strange new world while there are predators who use their power to lure and abuse the have-not’s… The hero steps in and saves the damsel in distress and yazhini feels safe and secure in Kathir’s presence and feels comfortable enough to sleep with him when drunk because he stood up for her while her ex-boyfriend did not… Maybe she likes to be treated like princess and is okay with it if it will only come from someone whose social staus is low enough to aspire for her… Now the whole ka ka po song in which he’s dancing ecstatically after experiencing something new and out of his “league” while at the same time the female lead is trying to rationalize her actions through the victimhood narratives that say the confused girl became a slave to the circumstances and is now inflicted with a low-class rowdy’s contact like a chicken coming down with sickness (forgive the lame simile, I borrowed it from the song)…
The opportunistic nature of this union is soon revealed and Kathir is disillusioned however only temporarily… Just when Yazhini is about to desert him and ready to leave the whole nighbourhood her Dad calls and she is in a new predicament… She wants a fake boyfriend and Kathir bites the bait once again… She tries to move him up from “local” to “IT Manager”.. When he feels wierd in his new attire and is afraid of being called out, she is very “matter-of-fact” about how his face looks local and it needs to be compensated for with his attire… He is taught the trait of delayed-gratification and refusing to eat tasty food when offered as a proxy-sign of his social status… But it’s not natural for people who do not think beyond the next few days and are not privileged to have tasty food whenever they want.. and this conflict expressed amazingly is one of the funniest moments of the movie…
I could go on a little more but this is already getting too long… Cutting to the chase, I think the movie ends a few seconds before the actual ending…when both of them are looking at each other and there is a doubt on Kathir’s face whether she is going to acknowledge him given her new status and his menial job… I can imagine real life situations where the girl could probably just drives past refusing to believe/accept that’s him… I think thats what the pause is supposed to signify before the mutual smiling.. The happy ending probably fits better with the comedic tone of the rest of the movie..
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Rahini David
March 27, 2016
Sun: This is the best comment in these parts in a month or so. Please do me a favor and stop being bothered about the comment being long.
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Priyangu
March 28, 2016
Sun: Yes, Rahini is so right. Awesome comment. Not sure if you have watched Nalan’s short film “Nenjukku Neethi”. Outwardly it is a funny dark comedy. But when you look inside, it feels like a chillingly cynical take on who we, the seemingly peace-loving ordinary people, are.
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sunnyc2016
March 28, 2016
Thanks Rahini. I am glad you think that way but I feel small when I read some of the insights others come up with in this space. That’s why I have refrained from commenting here for so long. But this movie moved me so felt compelled to write. I am thrilled to know you appreciate my POV 🙂
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brangan
March 28, 2016
Sun: About “a cynical commentary on how doomed and hopeless inter-socioeconomic-strata-romance is in reality,” I agree, and I said pretty much the same thing in my review:
A less adventurous film would chart their unlikely love story – opposites attract, et cetera. Kadhalum Kadandhu Pogum, though, invites us to ponder this question: What kind of relationship can there be between a girl who reads A Brief History of Time and a guy who’s just been released from jail? This is, in many ways, an anti-romance.
Which is why I was baffled that so many reviewers called this a “breezy rom-com.” It is anything but.
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udhaysankar
March 28, 2016
Caught up with the movie, finally. One thing that put me off completely was Madonna Sebastian’s make-up, which is so exaggerated.
It is so tough to buy her character as a middle class woman when her make-up literally screams the opposite. Her make-up is uncluttered even as she wakes up the next morning having gulped two beers and slept on the floor an entire night.
Is it too big an ask to portray middle-class women as they are, with a bit of authenticity in Tamil Cinema. One need to look no further than premam where the very actress and her make-up was so genuine. Why should their looks be so exaggerated the entire length of the movie? Had this been an usual commercial movie, we could have excused it. But considering that this is Nalan (one of the supposed new-gen directors) that we are talking about, I was really disappointed.
Even with these new-gen directors I can’t think of more than three instances where the female lead’s look worked for me.
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moniker
March 28, 2016
@Sun
“I could go on a little more ”
please do….
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Zero
March 29, 2016
The film ends in a matter-of-fact realistic (plausibility-wise) note w.r.t. inter-class romance, yes, but it’s not at all a cynical take implying their relationship is opportunistic any which way you look at it. In fact, it is precisely this line of logic (“Kathir is slowly drawn towards” / “unable to resist the bait”; “Yazhini is looking for protection” / “feels safe and secure”; “it will only come from someone whose social staus is low enough to aspire for her”) that routine/bad inter-class love stories follow. If the difference is only w.r.t. plot proceedings, it wouldn’t have been worthy of appreciation at all. What matters – and where this film departs IMO – is how the two characters are sketched, how the two perceive each other. Kathir is just a decent guy (slacker, laidback or what have you) who doesn’t feel she owes him love just because he’s been helping her out. It’s precisely because he isn’t looking for the favours to be returned, they’re liberated from the standard love story arc. He’s just doing his own stuff. And that’s what’s nice about him. 🙂
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moniker
March 30, 2016
Watched the movie… From the trailer, I didn’t think Madonna was gonna do that good. But she was ok , especially considering the fact that this is her first movie.
spoilers ahead …
I got completely invested into her character (and it helped that it was being played by a new comer and not an established actress)… losing her job, alone in a new place without family or friends…. and then that wretched interview…. I was there crying with her, after that interview , on her bus ride home… and I knew and FELT EXACTLY what she felt on seeing Kathir…… the only friendly, kind face in her new place .
VS….someone up thread said has a knack of choosing people pleasing roles…very right…It is impossible not to like him in the kind of roles that he does. And in his acting , there is never any showing off….sometimes I cringe when there is a close up shot of the main actor….you know the hero is going to do one of those trademark cutesy expressions, cocking of the eyebrows, tilting of the head, an intense stare or a cute smile all aimed at the audience and it makes it impossible to invest into his character or the story..
With VS, there is never that look at me thing…it is like he is just being the character. He reminds me of mohanlal of chitram, vandanam days. Am not comparing him to MOhanlal in terms of talent, but only in terms of the characters he chooses to play ,the extremely natural body language, dialogue delivery and also the ease in which he fits into the given milieu.
But I get how this kind of acting can be an impediment to doing mass movies. But are there any actors from the new batch/gen who are doing mass movies. I thought they all are staying away from those kind of movies in fear of ending up as meme jokes..
“Kathir is just a decent guy (slacker, laidback or what have you) who doesn’t feel she owes him love just because he’s been helping her out.”
“He’s just doing his own stuff. And that’s what’s nice about him.:-)”
This is exactly how I saw it too. I did not think of him as this guy whose actions are all selfish and opportunistic and motive-driven. And also she is the ambitious one who is ready to run away from home, lie to her parents, move to a new place alone……go to any lengths to up her station and status in life….and he is the lazy guy who would be miserable any place else other than where he is now and I thought him trying to become the owner of the bar is so that he could wile away being the boss and all without doing any real work.
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sunnyc2016
April 2, 2016
Sorry guys, has been a crazy week. Didn’t get a chance to write here and I take a long time to write a paragraph.
” In fact, it is precisely this line of logic (“Kathir is slowly drawn towards” / “unable to resist the bait”; “Yazhini is looking for protection” / “feels safe and secure”; “it will only come from someone whose social staus is low enough to aspire for her”) that routine/bad inter-class love stories follow”
@Zero and moniker :
Maybe I am forcing such simplistic causality based on their personal incentives to confirm my cynical take on the story. But I think that’s the way the director intended it – this story is not special because the lead characters have transcendental qualities. It works by using the plot elements to throw remarkable insight into the nature of lead characters who are real, like us. Following are my reasons.
Yazhini gets a pepper spray to protect herself from Kathir and plans on moving out of the apartment because she feels insecure there. Only later she feels safe around him after a couple of his attempts to help her. Even more comfortable with him after he protects her from another threat(or avenges the disrespect). She was seen explicitly complaining to Kathir about the lecher and gives him a cue to do something. When Kathir does something and says he would have done it for anybody, she debunks it saying “Don’t tell me Tamil movie hero dialogues” and implies it’s because he’s attracted to her.
This seems to be suggesting directly the opposite of what Zero is saying: it’s a Tamil movie cliche for hero to be so nice and good towards all women. She recognizes that he reacted violently against the lecher because he likes her. The cliches she’s talking about are probably Rajni, Vijay movies where hero saves the heroine in a general good Samaritan way but heroine takes it too personally and falls in love with him.
I’m not sure which bad inter-class movies Zero is talking about.
Anyway, I think Kathir’s nonchalance is fake and works as a shield saving him from emotional hurt. The fact that he’s actually more emotional about this relationship than he admits shows up in scenes where he beats up the lecher, Ka ka po song, the disillusionment right after the song and the scene in the temple.
We are all opportunists and we all atleast hope for – if not expect or demand – things in return and there is no unconditional love. Of course levels of empathy and selfishness vary. I think Nalan comes from the same place. But I mean Yazhini is particularly opportunistic because she seems to be aware that Kathir likes her more than she likes him and hence she has some power over him so she uses it to her benefit multiple times.
@Priyangu: Thanks and I will check out Nenjukku Neethi
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Zero
April 2, 2016
sunnyc2016,
Obviously I’m not suggesting either of them are unaware of the tension (gender and class) in the relationship. Of course they’re aware of it but they bond without trying to resolve all attendant open questions that are meant to lead to that one final (very conservative) question of whether they’ll form a couple. Yes, he likes/cares for her, she too develops a fondness, seeks his help/company fully knowing it’s out of line as per usual social norms and it’s crucial that all of this happens without the attendant threat of his “getting” her is absent here. That gentleness is what characterizes the whole movie. The “ka ka po” song sequence indeed depicts such a possible threat but its tongue-in-cheek quality is precisely because the film itself is cut from a different cloth.
The above threat is immanent in many inter-class love story movies in Tamil cinema (which, if one were to be more accurate, function more as plain male fantasies!) and this is where, I mean to say, this film’s arc/character is very different, opposite even. Nobody is saying the scenarios (plot-wise) are themselves different. The convenient element of bringing in a character who tries to sexually violate the heroine is as big a movie cliche as it gets. (Nalan, like all of us here, is very much aware of this!) This usually means the heroine owes it to the hero now that something like this has transpired, and that otherwise (say, she goes on her own path, etc.) she just “used” him or “ditched” him. It’s that implication (the idea that Kathir does all of this to see if that’d get him closer to her, that she’s fully aware of it but still continues to “use” him as long as she needs) in your take that I’m arguing is so out of place. e.g. I find it totally out of place to describe her moving out of that locality as “[deserting] him” (why is it about him even?!) a complete misreading of Kathir’s nonchalant reaction (which is more along the lines of “this is how it generally goes”).
And finally, isn’t the cynical commentary you outline very much part of most inter-class love stories in Tamil cinema? I mean, what else characterizes all those booze songs where the hero is going on and on about heroine’s cold-hearted actions? It is in that context I said everything is not about how a story ends (whether the heroine joins hero’s hands at the end or not).
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moniker
April 2, 2016
sunny and zero… great discussion happening here. please keep it going. And I am nowhere good at this as you guys are… mine is just an emotional reaction to the movie and characters and not a very intellectual one..
and I have to confess that my tamil is not that good , so maybe I also missed a lot of details in the dialogues..
@sun
“implies it’s because he’s attracted to her.”
About Kathir getting attracted to her…..I do not find Madonna good looking…but after reading some of the comments around the net, I understand she is considered cute by a lot of people . Also, in the movie, Yazhini is quiet even tempered ,ambitious and a go-getter.I am guessing not just Kathir, but a lot of men across the board, would be attracted to her .
Kathir was attracted to her and may be even started caring for her. But I think that was it….he did not expect it to be reciprocated. I think he is a loner with no family and I am guessing he is used to that ….his feelings not being reciprocated. But of course…if he sees a glimpse of love or caring, he would respond to that. But after the naana….naaya dialogue scene, he gets the message and stays away…doesn’t bother her after that. Also I think he is a lazy ass…even if there is something there between him and Yazhini..he couldn’t be bothered to pursue it and do something about it..
She is the one who initiates all their interactions after that. When she comes to call him to help her out with convincing her parents…he hesitates. He could have said a plain no to her because he has nothing in it for him.But the good guy that he is…he just cannot leave her hanging like that . I think Yazhini sees this heart in him and likes him for that.
“I think Kathir’s nonchalance is fake and works as a shield saving him from emotional hurt. The fact that he’s actually more emotional about this relationship than he admits shows up in scenes where he beats up the lecher”…..
agree with this part….
I think Kathir is a basic good guy who ended up in the wrong place. He would take up for those boys at the store for stealing. He would also save that young guy from taking up for murder for him and going to jail.
I think Kathir has been let down by a lot of people and situations in life that now he just wants to chill and not make an effort in fear of getting hurt. Him helping her out with not missing the interview…..I think he says something like…”in life…there are some chances that if you miss them once, you will not get it again” and him stopping that guy from going to jail for the murder…All of that is because maybe he was in similar situations in the past and nobody bothered to help him out and he wants to give these people a chance by helping them out.
@sunny…
I loved reading your post … I watched the movie after I read your comment and tried my best to look at Kathir the way you implied and it was impossible coz I loved Kathir ( and also I have a soft corner for Vijay Sethupathi lolz). But..it was a brilliant way of looking at the film and I loved your take on it.
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moniker
April 2, 2016
And I love the way through out the movie he keeps giving her moral support and reminding her not to give up.
At the breakfast place…he says..”you know it is not your fault u can’t get a job…there is “recess” going on”
And when she asks him how much do they pay for sticking posters…he tells her not to settle for anything less..
And him buying umbrella for her so she wouldn’t miss the interview…
I think he wants her to get out of that dump as much as she does and he understands what it is like to be stuck at a dead end, feeling helpless, and he roots for her .
Maybe he even sees a glimpse of himself in her before he became all jaded and mellow and wants this thing to work out for her.
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moniker
April 3, 2016
ok my last comment on this…
Kathir’s niceness is not just reserved for her, the cute girl….but also for those young guys who were caught stealing….he helps them out at the store but outside he tells them to stick to studies instead of getting in trouble… and also for Murali ( I remember his name now) who was going to take the blame for Samuthirakani’s murder……Kathir starts liking and caring for him too and in the end refuses to let him take the blame for the murder. I thought that was a selfless act too, maybe even more compelling than what he did for Yazhini.
I think that is just who Kathir is…someone who would go to any length to do good for those who he cares, without expecting anything in return.
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