MUSIC MUSINGS
OCT 26, 2008 – EVEN IF I DIDN’T KNOW THAT AR RAHMAN was behind the album for Subhash Ghai’s upcoming Yuvvraaj, a glance at the track listing would have prompted me to pick it up instantly, if only for these seven words in unholy communion: Salman Khan with the Fifth of Beethoven. How can anyone not want to see what this is about, this musical analogue of Govinda starring in a film by Satyajit Ray? The piece (titled Main hoon Yuvvraaj) kicks off with the famously dramatic four-note fortissimo phrase, played twice, and then Salman’s voice – affected and accented as ever – chimes in, first to introduce himself as the eponymous character, and later to request the composer’s forgiveness. “Maaf karna Beethoven saab,” he simpers, “they think I’m a bad guy. Yeah right, I am a bad guy.” There. If you were wondering how Ghai was planning to bounce back into big-budget filmmaking after the earth-shattering bomb that was Kisna, it’s by placing a Hindi actor with a faux American twang in the middle of the work of a German composer interpreted by a Tamil music director. How’s that for Bollywood going global?
Main hoon Yuvvraaj is just the starter, it would appear – a sampler morsel of the delectable East-meets-Western Classical feast to follow. But as of this writing, my stomach is still rumbling – even after a couple of passes through the entire album. The initial impressions are that the songs feel too fussed over – too much icing, not enough cake. Rahman is a composer who can sound “different” in his sleep, but here it appears that he’s trying to be different, that the attempt to be different is no longer unconscious and organic but a product of the wielded will – and the effort shows. In Tu meri dost hai, soaring lines of melody swoop down startlingly in the first antara, as if suddenly experiencing the effects of gravity, or else, as in the second antara, they seem to have their course rerouted by a sly tonic shift. The results are interesting to note but hardly ingratiating. Tu muskura is the album’s loveliest tune, but it rests on an alarmingly monotonous rhythm section powered by a tinkly-tambourine synth. And for all its tragic aspirations, Zindagi has the weight of spun sugar, harking back to Rahman’s early years with vaguely pleasant pop ballads that vanished like vapour even while you were listening to them.
The anthemic Dil ka rishta, the playful Mastam mastam (which sounds like a composite of Rahman’s own I am sorry and Alle alle from One Two Ka Four), the dance-ready Shano shano – these did nothing for me at all, and what saved the album single-handedly was Manmohini morey. This is one of those classical tunes dressed up in western clothes – like Alaipaayuthe kanna, from Alaipaayuthe, where Rahman retained the traditional tune of the Oothukkadu Venkata Subbier composition, but tweaked the background ever-so-slightly to render it contemporary. Even the synth stylings that cocoon the composition are entirely one with this piece, not merely backdrop but backbone. There’s not much in terms of lyrics here – and the words that open the song, Lat uljhi suljhaa jaa re baalam, have been rendered earlier on stage and in film by the likes of Noor Jahan and Pandit Jasraj – but what few lines there are, Gulzar imbues with the kind of erotic imagery he reserves for Rahman. (Their earlier collaboration, Jiya jale, spoke similarly of the aftermath of lovemaking. And speaking of Gulzar, this has got to be one of his least characteristic efforts – “pairon mein paatal hai” in one of the songs was the closest I got to a fingerprint.)
I know what you’re going to say – that this is Rahman, that you need time and patience and trust and devotion, and then the songs will slowly-but-surely grow on you. While all of this is certainly possible – translation: I haven’t given up on Yuvvraaj yet – I wonder why it is that Rahman is the only composer to whose music this logic is so consistently applied, at least in the reviews of his new albums. Music is the most abstract of arts, and the way I see it, there’s no telling at what point a composition will choose to reveal its beauties to you – and this is true of every musician, not just Rahman. Besides, where do you draw the line? Imagine the flip side, wherein you listen to the songs so many times that you don’t grow to like them so much as get used to them, like how you get used to living with a person who’s all wrong for you simply because, over time, you become immune to those wrongs. Of course, you could say – as I do – that you don’t give every musician this kind of benefit of the doubt. You reserve this consideration only for those like Rahman, who’ve proved themselves in the past (which may be terribly unfair to newer composers whose songs don’t grab you at first listen, but that’s just the way it is).
That I’ll buy – because Rahman deserves this singling out, this special treatment. But what I don’t agree with is that he is the first and the last composer in whose work you need to invest a significant time commitment – because sometimes songs give you that aha! moment after years. One of Ilayaraja’s most successful soundtracks, Karagattakaran, was released in the late eighties, and the song that I almost always glossed over was the one sung by the maestro himself, Paattaale buthi sonnaar. It’s as smoothly constructed a composition as any of his, but given that he was singing it (like he did so many songs of the era), I’d forward quickly to Maanguyile poonguyile or (my personal favourite) Indha maan. But a few months ago, I was walking to the post office listening to this album and this song came on, and I literally stopped in my tracks. Perhaps it’s the fact that Ilayaraja is no longer in favour and this lends a special poignancy to the lyrics that talk of appeasing numerous fans through his songs (as long as they want him to), or perhaps it’s that he no longer sings the title song of every goddamn movie and therefore that fatigue factor is no longer there and we’re free to listen to just the moving music – but my eyes misted up that instant, and as if an eclipse had cleared, I saw for the first time the luminous beauty of the song. And – talk about time – it only took me twenty years.
Copyright ©2008 The New Sunday Express. This article may not be reproduced in its entirety without permission. A link to this URL, instead, would be appreciated.
FR
October 25, 2008
A bit rushed-up review. Probably unfair too.. Oh, I liked the album.
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FR
October 25, 2008
correction: A bit rushed-up “between reviews”! 😛
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paadhi
October 25, 2008
Listening to Yuvraj after coming across the numerous glowing reviews, I was really shocked. Have I grown too old for ARR? Has his art reached a level that lay listeners like me can no longer enjoy his music? Maybe a second listen or a third or a fourth will help me find things to like about this album, but I guess that is just forcing my mind to like the music just because it is from the guy who gave dheemi dheemi.
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brangan
October 25, 2008
FR: This is *not* an album review. I’d never presume to do an album review after (as I’ve said here) just two listens. These are more along the lines of initial thoughts.
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Deepauk M
October 26, 2008
“like how you get used to living with a person who’s all wrong for you simply because, over time, you become immune to those wrongs” – Really! You are just going to off handedlythrow in every single dude’s great ear in there just off-handedly? 🙂
BTW Indha Maan is my favorite song too (especially that anname enthan sorName unthan eNName vAnavil vaNName – pure bliss!). But isnt that also in Raja’s voice? so why the discrimination against pAttAle buththi sonnAr? (I always assumed he was talking abt pAvalar Varadarajan during the song). The lines that brings me the nostalgia attack is in An pAvam – “Intha kAla iLaingar seiyyum kAthalukku, iLaiyaraja enthan pAttiruku”. For me entha kAlaththula evan kAthal paNNAlum avanukku Raja pAttu irukkum.
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Deepauk M
October 26, 2008
damn- I meant great fear. not great ear.
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Ravi K
October 26, 2008
I like the songs except for Zindagi, Mastam Mastam, and Shano Shano, though I’ve been playing Dil Ka Rishta and Manmohini (which should have been a minute or two longer) over and over.
I don’t believe that ARR’s albums growing on you is simply a matter of getting used to them, since there are albums of his that I futilely listened to over and over, hoping that I would suddenly appreciate them, but without ever liking them. And there are albums of his I’ve liked initially but grew tired of them.
But I think any album, by ARR or not, needs multiple listens to see whether or not your initial reaction fades.
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saraks
October 26, 2008
I have started getting the feeling that his experimentation has started getting ahead of him. If only we could get something like Iruvar again where his experimentation and execution peaked.
And for some reason I was waiting for a reference of IR and there you go. And that is the price you pay(rather willingly) for glossing over his songs.
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Vel Murugan
October 26, 2008
Just curious to know which are all those ‘early years’ composition you are referring to when you say ‘that vanished like vapour even while you were listening to them’. cos I thought only during his early years he was least bothered about the banner/director and gave some nice tracks irrespective of their bigness or smallness, the likes of ‘pudhiya mugam’ , ‘uzhavan’ ‘pavithra’, ‘vandicholai..’ …it became increasingly hard later on, to find and get surprised by something like ‘Edhu sugam sugam..’ in a movie like ‘Vandicholai Chinraasu’. Or even theze come under ‘vanished into thin air’ types?? 🙂
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Vel Murugan
October 26, 2008
And ‘Zindagi’ is a drag I agree, for me it sounds like a rehashed version of ‘Pookodiyin punnagai’ from Iruvar, sans the old-world charm.
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Shankar
October 26, 2008
Baddy, you mentioned earlier that you were working on a piece about BGMs. I can’t wait for that to come out… 🙂
Coming back to this one, I agree with your initial thoughts about the album. Another point I wanted to make was there has been some fresh talent in the tamil film music industry recently. I enjoyed the efforts of Niru, Dharan, S.S.Kumaran etc. Time will tell if they can consistently create such excellent music.
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brangan
October 26, 2008
Deepauk M: Yup, that’s the line that makes the song for me too. And this one’s a duet, a lovely one — while Paattaale is one of those semi-philosophical thingees that were beginning to blur into one at that point.
Ravi K: Even Manmohini, IMO, isn’t a pathbreaker for ARR — just that it’s a damn good tune, backed by good arrangements.
Vel Murugan: I was talking about those excessively synth driven tunes in Pavithra and the like. They’re sweet and all, but to me, they don’t linger as much.
Shankar: Dude, I’m not “working” on it. You’re making it sound like some bloody opus 🙂 I have some thoughts in mind and when the “click” happens, I guess the piece will write itself.
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Anand
October 26, 2008
BR..Haven’t listened to Yuvraaj yet. Still listeneing to Vaaranam Aayiram. Wold like to know your thoughts on that as well.
I am mightily impressed with Anjalai song. And any plans on Aegan?
Raj: Talking about Aegan, they have dumbed down Main Hoon Na..Can you believe it?
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Shankar
October 26, 2008
Ok, so it’s a “work-in-progress” inside your mind!! That’s good enough… 🙂
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raj
October 26, 2008
Anand, yes I can. Ajith fans oru thani level. Adhanaala dhaan sonnaen, remaking with Ajith/Vijay is the appropriate thing to do with Main Hoon Na. Idhai Farah Khan-ku subtitle pottu special screening vecha, it will serve its purpose in full.
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G123
October 26, 2008
@shankar
whos niru?
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Alpesh
October 27, 2008
i have to say that when i first heard the album, my instant reaction was ‘i hate it, it’s rubbish’. but one or two bits of the album stuck in my head and it compelled me to listen to the album again.
i also think of music as something much more meaningful, and i often wonder whether a persons personality or experiences influences their opinion of a song, which is why when you heard Paattaale buthi sonnaar a few months ago it touched a nerve.
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zazu
October 27, 2008
“it’s by placing a Hindi actor with a faux American twang in the middle of the work of a German composer interpreted by a Tamil music director” –
And this is a problem, how? 😉 What’s wrong with seemingly incongruous juxtapositions? I haven’t seen Kisna, but is that the reason why it stunk? What’s actually most disturbing about that Beethoven track is the way it abrubtly ends.
I think this album is great – but I appreciate it as a soundtrack for a film. The music’s merits as stand-alone compositions mzy be arguable. Dil Ka Rishta for example – is it a good classical compostion? No way! Good pop song? A great Broadway show stopper? No – but it encompasses all those styles, covers a diversity of moods, and has terrific momentum, a fantastic arrangement (except for that awful drum machine keeping time like a damn metronome). I love how Rahman does a riff off the rhythms of the violins from Beethoven’s Fifth for part of it – it really has the same drive as the first movement. And you have to love that he uses a full orchestra and REAL instruments – not the lousy synthesized crap that everybody else uses because it’s cheaper. It’s quite the ambitious piece – not something you are likely to hear anyplace else and I am looking forward to seeing it on the screen.
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zazu
October 27, 2008
“music is the most abstract of arts” – I agree that it’s the least “concrete” art form since you are not contemplating a physical object – but are you implying here that music appreciation is a mysterious process that is beyond critical analysis?
Also – Manmohini morey is my favorite track from the album as well – but I think I like it for the incredible performance from the vocalist and the arrangement. But is it all that much as a composition?
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raj
October 27, 2008
BR, I feel IR vishayathula appadi growing-on-listening-nu solla vendiya avasiyam varuvadhillai – I mean, how many listenings did you need to dig Andhi Mazhai Pozhigiradhu. I needed just one. It is another matter that as you listened more, you found more ‘details’, even in Andhi Mazhai. But IR in peak form combined both instant appeal and amazing details – I guess I, if not you, can be politically incorrect and challenge others to match that.
I also find that most of the times, if you dont like a IR song instantly, it is unlikely that you will return and find something to cherish there – in other words, I feel you and Pattale budhi is an exception rather than norm.
My theory is the same as IR’s – he is spontaneous and if he happens to be inspired at the moment of composing, everything flows, including the amazing details that we dig later – like, maintaining the raga lakshana of Karaharapriya. I dont think that happends deliberately in the case of IR. To me that is the amazing thing about that genius. Spontaneous delivery of an apt situational music, combined with spontaneous delivery of technical wizardry. Of course, this doesnt apply to him when he is not in peak form. Which is why I think if you find the song unimpressive in first listening, given that that might mostly be becausee he was in uninspiring mood, the rest of the details also turn out to be uninspiring, with honourable exceptions.
Coming to Rahman, it is not surprising that when you revisit any song of his, you find interesting things. Well, almost any, because even he is not tbat good . The man is the opposite of spontaneous and painstaking work goes into each and every decibel that he outputs.So, not suprising that as a digger of musical gold, you would find some fine chiselled ornaments when you dig him everytime.
With IR, I guess, sometimes you might just get thorium and sometimes, his magic produces a finely sculpted necklace just like that out of thin air. It is like IR digs the ground right in front of you and shows you thorium but when he lifts it from the soil, you see a necklace. Speed!
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Rahul Tyagi
October 27, 2008
Yuvvraaj is probably the first ARR album in a long time that made me say “hmmm… this is definitely a disappointing album..” As usual, I waited 3-4 hearing before allowing me to form some sort of an opinion.. and it was “I can’t believe how ‘normal’ everything is sounding.. nothing except 2 songs seems impressive in any way”.. but 3-4 more hearing and I am amazed how it seems to have worked again! It is still not all that great an album overall but I am sure I won’t call it disappointing..Tu Muskura, Tu hi to meri dost hai and Zindagi are all ARR-worthy for me.. so is Dil Ka Rishta (though I have to say that the english lyric part pulls it down quite a bit)… maybe you need to wait a little too?
I do understand the point about feeling a bit uneasy about giving this leeway to ARR and almost no one else… maybe we just get used to these songs rather than really liking them? It is probably true for at least some of his songs.. I notice that only some of the songs of any given album still survive in my playlist after 10 years, even though I clealy remember that 3 months after the release of that album I used to find it hard to choose any favorites.. maybe the survivors are the ones I really liked and the others I just got used to at the time? lets see which songs from Yuvvraaj will survive 10 years from now… I’ll be surprised if at least “dost”, “tu muskura” and “zindagi” dont make it…
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brangan
October 27, 2008
Anand: I really like the VA soundtrack. Good mix of songs.
Alpesh: “i often wonder whether a persons personality or experiences influences their opinion of a song, which is why when you heard Paattaale buthi sonnaar a few months ago it touched a nerve” – Absolutely. That’s why movies and songs and book that leave you cold at one stage in life could come back and haunt you later.
zazu: Is there something about my writing of late that’s causing all these mixed signals? 🙂 First, in that Abhishek piece, I appear to have sent out signals that I’m dissing the SRK school of acting. Now it appears I’m saying that this mix of Hindi-American-German-Tamil is a “problem.” It’s not a problem at all. I’m just observing that this is the case.
And I agree that this is an ambitious album. It’s just that, so far, it’s not cutting it for me.
“are you implying here that music appreciation is a mysterious process that is beyond critical analysis?” No – rather that the push-pull between the compositional elements (which can be lai bare in analysis) and the emotional effects (which may not make themselves apparent immediately) of music makes “judgement” more difficult than in the case of, say, a film.
raj: I wasn’t talking about “growing-on-listening” with IR. I was referring to a specific instance where a song revealed itself to me long after I’d dismissed it as a minor trifle — which is quite different from listening to it for twenty years and then liking it.
Rahul Tyagi: “maybe the survivors are the ones I really liked and the others I just got used to at the time?” I think so. Time is really the ultimate judge. Ten years from now, no one is going to care if ARR used the Polynesian flower drum in this song or if S-E-L got Burmese monks out of retirement to chant for that song. What eventually survives is the music itself.
And… Zindagi? Really? It’s so… dull. The Srinivas-ARR sad-song collaboration is better represented in Jo afsaane, IMO.
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Shankar
October 27, 2008
G123, Niru’s work in “Rameshwaram” was really good. I liked the songs in that movie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niru
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raj
October 27, 2008
BR, yeah, i got that. That is why I just mentioned that your case with Pattale must have been an exception – otherwise, the rest of the post is my theory for whatever it is worth.
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Tejas
October 28, 2008
Speaking of Burmese monks, are you ever going to do that piece on classic rock legends, such as Pink Floyd, Hendrix et al.? 🙂
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Dharu
October 28, 2008
I have been working hard for the last two days, listening to Yuvvraajjjj. Must say that it has not yet sunk in. But I still am hoping. I feel I do not like it the way I took to Taal, may be I was not supposed to!
BTW, that song always gets me. Paataale Buthi sonnar…I was impressed with the way they did the titles for that movie, making it like banners of a meeting. Vintage!!!
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Elizabeth
October 28, 2008
“Talking about Aegan, they have dumbed down Main Hoon Na..Can you believe it?”
Ah, so it IS a version of Main Hoon Na. I suspected that from the trailers, but I wasn’t sure.
I don’t know about the movie (though I’m one who enjoyed Main Hoon Na), but I couldn’t help instantly liking the Aegan soundtrack. I didn’t need time for it to grow on me. I just liked it straight away.
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Anand
October 28, 2008
Elizabeth: It is a version of MHN but MHN was far better. It is like Chandramukhi and Manichitrathazhu.
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brangan
October 28, 2008
Dharu: “working hard for the last two days, listening to Yuvvraajjjj” – how much more time and hard work do you think you’ll give it? A month or so? 😉
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Vijay
October 28, 2008
I agree with Raj here. In his best compositions Raja managed to have both depth and appeal, which is difficult to do. Seldom have I liked any songs of his that didn’t appeal a whole lot to me at first. The only time something took time to grow on me(emotionally) was in the case of slightly more complex works like Thathhaaram in Guru(initially I didnt like or “get” how the prelude led to the pallavi, it seemed disjointed) or Polla Vinayen in Thiruvasagam (where it took me some time to digest the Gospel singing in between the Thamizh verses) and in those cases Raja was clearly trying out something new in a grander newer format. It is like, you had to almost recalibrate yourself to gauge a great Raja composition after Guru.
With Rahman, at times his zest for incessant experimentation(which is not a bad trait at all and one of the things I admire about him) seems to get in the way of the flow of the song. Maybe he is trying to recondition the listener’s minds in his own way (like intentional dissonance in western classical) but it doesn’t work for me all the time.
Anyways, debates like these are bound to go on for ever and in the end we’ll end up agreeing that a lot of it is bloody damn subjective.
By the way, Baradwaj, I find it amusing that you got bashed for praising Abhishek BACHHAN but somehow get away with all the Kamal and Ilayaraja adulation every time you write about them. Such is life, full of surprising contradictions and ironies.
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brangan
October 28, 2008
Vijay: Reg. “By the way, Baradwaj, I find it amusing that…” Oh, you bet. I never cease to be amazed at how someone will choose to respond to something I write. If they’re an SRK fan, they’ll twist what I said in the “Performance Appraisal” piece to mean that I don’t like their hero. Or if they don’t care for a movie (like Drona), they’ll attribute suspicious motives and agenda to my relatively okay appraisal of it.
I’m just glad that, here, no ARR fan has come right out and accused me of trying to foster the agendum, towards the end, that “IR is better than ARR” or some such thing. To borrow your line, such is life indeed, full of surprising contradictions and ironies 🙂
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Shankar
October 28, 2008
Guru, by all accounts, was an outstanding album. Even the interludes meshed so well with the sequences on screen, which is also a tribute to the director Rajiv Anchal for conceptualizing it in the planning stages. It is hard to find a film soundtrack that had so much depth and grandeur. With a symphony orchestra playing to Raja’s notes, the BGM and soundtrack of that unconventional movie fully deserved a national award. Of course the year was 1997 and the judges went with the popular choice!! 🙂
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raj
October 29, 2008
Shankar, and that pathetic choice was Annamayya. With due respect to Annamayya, Keeravani didnt deserve that award for just thayanban-sabesh-murali-type-orchestrating some of Annamayya’s works, and getting away with crass balakrishna-type stuff that was “Ele Ele Maradala”.
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raj
October 29, 2008
GURU as a movie lacked the pan-indian appeal of a Roja or a Bombay and that was a problem, too. It wasnt a classic movie by any imagination. It was different, thats the best you could say about it. You dont get a natl award for pouring your best into average and abpve-average movies and this was IR’s primary problem. Else, there is no way they could have not given the award to him every single year in the 80’s!
It took a Rudra Veena(with its classical background, not to mention the grand message), Sagara Sangamam(again classical background, this time backed up well by K Viswanath), Sindhu Bhairavi(again Classical backgrouns) to get him an award. See the pattern?
It’s amazing how the classical background overrides any other musical considerations for the national award – even Annamayya made it on that count but it wasnt even the best apple(based on indian classical music) compared to the best orange that GURU(one of the all-time best, if not THE best, in terms of WCM-based Indian movie scores) was in 1997, and not just in the context of 1997. Annamayya pales before Shankarabharanam, Sagara Sangamam and Rudra Veena. This consideration doesnt seem to go into the decision of this award except when Rahman is involved(Rahman managed it for Roja, the year 1992 when I think Devar Magan had a much bigger claim considering the songs as well as the rustic rooted BGM; then for Minsara Kanavu, which probably was deserved compared to that year’s other contenders)
I can fathom why Ninaivellam Nithya, Karagattakaran(even there look at his pieces for the ‘comedy scenes’, does anyone else take such effort to root a comedy scene in the milieu it is set with the music reflecting that?), Kozhi Koovudhu, Annakili missed out.
But how they could not award Mudhal Mariyadhai(unless it was the same year as Sindhu Bhairavi; heck, even if it was the same year as Sindhu Bhairavi), Nayagan(just the BGM!), Agni Nakshatram(1989, I dont know which movie won it but it is unlikely that any other movie would have matched this one in sheer innovation), Geetanjali(for the BGM), Devar Magan, Mullum Malarum, Mouna Raagam(for the BGM alone , not to mention the fantastic Chinna Chinna Vanna Kuyil), it just beats me. The answer is probably that the jury consisted of highly knowledgeable people when it came to understanding cinema but they were not necessarily experts in music. If the natl award is decided only by musicians, I am pretty sure IR would have swept the 80’s and Rahman managed atleast half of the 90’s and early 2000’s.
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Anand
October 29, 2008
Raj: What about Rajapaarvai, Meendum Kokila(use of Mridangam for comedy scenes), Bharathi (he did not get for Bharathi – can you beat it?), Hey Ram, Guna, Moghamull? The above films were definitely better than ‘average or above average’ films. I think he did not get the National award as frequently as he should have, and the main reason was he did not believe in PR. He also had a very dismissive opinion about all awards, in the year he won the first award, Ananda Kummi also got released and the Maestro himself said he deserved it better for AK!
National awards are given to performances – so you can always argue that it is likely to be subjective. But what about Padmashree? When it is given to ARR way back in the 90’s, I think it is a shame on the part of awards committee not to give one to Raja.
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Shankar
October 29, 2008
raj, the award actually went to “Minsara Kanavu”!! 🙂
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Shankar
October 29, 2008
raj, now I’m certain..Guru got beat by Minsara Kanavu for the 1997 national awards. MK does have it’s own merits however, IMO, paled in comparision to Guru and that’s why I said (tongue in cheek) that the judges went with the popular choice!! 🙂
http://parallelcinema.blogspot.com/2005/10/guru.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Film_Award_for_Best_Music_Direction
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Shankar
October 29, 2008
Anand, I have ranted about this for so long…just a cursory look at the Padmashree awardees (the last in the hierarchy of civilian awards) pulls up the likes of Mohan Babu, Balachandra Menon, Sania Mirza, Kavita Krishnamurthi, Shahrukh Khan, Bharathiraja, Shekhar Kapur…but no Raja!! I can never figure that one out.
However I do think he is now past all that and the only corrective thing the Govt can do is to give him the Dadasaheb Phalke!! 🙂
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Shankar
October 29, 2008
raj, if you look at the movies that won the national award for music, most of them don’t have a pan-Indian appeal…save for a few. So, I’m not sure what the logic is in picking the winner. Also, the judges committee is instituted every year (I think) and so the winning criteria may also change based on the direction of that particular committee.
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raj
October 29, 2008
Anand, ah! yes, Raajapaarvai. Hmm…who was the jury chairman that year? What chance he understood fusion?
HEY RAM, a biggggg yessss! How did I even miss it in my list but then that is the problem – anyone ass enough to make a list like I did is bound to miss atleast 5-6 such IR movies which got missed out on recognition.
And GUNAA, man, how could they ignore GUNAA? I guess sometime in the early 90’s, HHA and Bharatham won natl awards. Much as I love both of them, I think Gunaa surely missed out because of one of these and thats a shame!
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raj
October 29, 2008
Anand, I think there is no awards committee per se for Padmashree. Even if there is, the members would change over the years so it depends on who is in the committee.
Besides I think the way it works is the state govt recommends people for such awards(which probably means BR will never get one, LOL :-))
What beats me is why Kalaignar missed out on recommending Raja, given that he has every incentive to recognise a son-of-the-soil like IR. I am glad he didnt because that would have meant IR got it because of political pull even though merit also justifies it.
And now is not the tiem to give him Padmashree. Now we must be talking of Bhushan or Vibooshan, if not Bharat Ratna.
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raj
October 29, 2008
Shankar, I am fairly sure GURU competed with Annamayya in 1998 awards. I am carrying this grouse since 1998. I remember ranting in tfmpage when this happened. And people pounced on me with the argument that “Annamayya had annamayya krithis therefore anything IR does would pale before that” logic!
I agree that pan-Indian appeal is not required for an award. I think that could be one of the reasons an award gets given. I mean, did Kal Ho Na Ho win the best music award? If it did, hence proved.
I mentioned that in the context of Roja because Roja had that pan-Indian appeal and along with it freshness. So, one can rationalise why it would have been easy to push its case in the awards commitee. GURU, for an ambitious venture, as a movie, lacked any appeal for the pan-Indian audience. If it had had, we would definitely have got an award for IR. Or, if the movie had been more than above-average, then it would brought notice for IR. But it wasnt. It was just about above-average and so it had neither the pan-India appeal of Roja nor the inherent, rooted quality of a Bharatham.
I also mentioned the committee as a reason – if someone like BR had been there in the 80’s as a critic and been part of the committees, we could have seen proper choices for the best music award.
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raj
October 29, 2008
Anu Malik for Refugee, WTF? And Anand, 2001 was the year of Bharathy so yes, you are right about that.
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raj
October 29, 2008
Anu Malik for Refugee, WTF?
HDDCS? Kal Ho na Ho? hmm…the award has been trivialised
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raj
October 29, 2008
Vidyasagar for swarabhishekam is another so-so. Swarabhishekam was very ordinary, except that it was based on Classical music.
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raj
October 29, 2008
Ponthan Mada-la edhu music?
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raj
October 29, 2008
I mean, did Ponthan Mada have music? I thought it only had sound recording.
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brangan
October 29, 2008
I also feel these Awards committees feel the need to dole out awards according to State (which is one of the inevitable banes of judging work in a country as diverse as ours, and the jury is itself from across the nation). So sometimes, I guess, it isn’t “who did the best work” so much as “who did the best work, given these circumstances.” It’s all very vague.
And I agree. KHNH is a fun, light soundtrack, but an NA for it? Then again, you can’t have 75 different categories for music (“Fun Light Stuff,” “Heavy Classical Stuff,” “Fusion” and so on), so I guess that’s another factor that adds to the vagueness of these awarsds and the impossibility of taking them seriously.
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raj
October 29, 2008
Dharavi was average too. Tamas was a fine movie but the music? 1988-pa. Means 1987 released movies are considered. Can anyone guess 1987 was the year of which movie for IR? I mean, he did, like, 40+ movies but one of them stands out tall.
(Because Rudra Veena award was received in 1989 and it was released in 1988)
If some of the 1988 movies could also be considered for 1988 then there is Moonam Pakkam, Swarna Kamalam and Agni Nakshatram.
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raj
October 29, 2008
BTW, it looks like Rudra Veeena won in the year of Agni Nakshatram so I have to take back my angst on Agni not winning an award. Che! Why didnt Mani release Agni in 1989?
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Anand
October 29, 2008
Well..Sivaji Ganesan won the supporting actor award for Thevar Magan and it was his first National Award. I think any award will have its own injustices!
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raj
October 29, 2008
BR, there is no doubt that it is vague. And even our arguments are subjective. Adhukku dhaan sonnaen – if someone like you had been in the awards committee, we can see a fairly well-judged recipient.(who did you think that BR in my coomment was, Bharathiraaja? 🙂 )
Because judging music for a movie needs appreciation of both. Who other than you has it today? Maybe Kamalhassan? I dont think, with due respect, Prakash Jha has it in him to judge the best music. He shouldnt be doing it. He is probably the one who chose KHNH, if I am not wrong.
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raj
October 29, 2008
BR, appadi paartha Minsaara Kanavu is also a fun. light soundtrack 🙂
(But it fully deserved it, notwithstanding that 1996 was probably the year of Mahandhi, there I go!)
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raj
October 29, 2008
Depending on the constitution of the committee, following are the criteria that seem to have been applied:
1. Movie is outstanding. Music is ok.Impact of the visuals aids the music rather than other way around – Tamas, Ponthan Mada, Madhvacharya(rememebr seeing it in DD)
2. Classical-based and reasonably popular/good – Sangeetha Sagara Gavai, Rudra Veena, Sindhu Bhairavi, Sagara Sangamam, Shankara Bharanam, Umrao Jaan(though not strictly classical, fairly fidel to a classical form of music), Dastak(what else does this movie have apart from Bhaiyan Na Dharo? Even otherwise, it deserves it for that one song), Lekin
3. Classical-based, award commitee not thinking much, giving it because it saves discussion and arguments – Swarabhishekam, Sringaram, MeghaSandesam(very light semi-classical – still of NA proportions?), Saraswati Chandra, Kandan Karunai(with due respects to Mama KVM, Uyarndha Manidhan would have been a better choice. I believe KK struck gold only because it was a devotional movie and classical-based score)
4. Highly Popular Light, Fun – Kal Ho Na Ho, HDDCS, Lagaan, Roja – deserve it if the category is just HPLF but not otherwise.
5. Highly Popular Light, Fun – deserves it anyway – Minsara Kanavu
6.WTF – Refugee, Kannathil Muthamittal(yes, hard to put it in the same sentence as Refugee but it was average by Rahman standards), HDDCS(yes it belongs to 4 as well as 6), Sringaram(very average but then lalgudi jayaraman), Ponthan Mada(!!), KHNH, Dharavi, Annamayya
I guess Satyajit Ray was known for his fine BGM so I dont want to comment on his awards.
How about Vishal’s Godmother?
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brangan
October 29, 2008
raj: I really thought you meant “andha” BR, as you were talking about people ON the committee 🙂 Dastak, BTW, had the intensely moving duet Mai re, an awesomely feather-light Rafi solo (Tumse kahoon), plus Lata’s Hum hain mataa-e-koocha… Damn good stuff. (Would come under the light classical classification of yours, I guess.)
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Shankar
October 29, 2008
raj, Minsara Kanavu released in Jan 1997…so by your logic, I’m not sure why it was considered for the 1997 awards. Guru did release in 1997 too. So, was MK considered as part of 1996 released films (since the release date was beginning of the year) and given the award in 1997? I don’t know. But I’ve always thought that Guru lost out to MK…
But Baddy is right…it’s impossible to take them seriously now. If Saif can win it for Hum Tum, that sounds like the death knell for those awards!! 🙂
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Anand
October 29, 2008
RAJ: some nitpicking…Mahanadhi was in 1994.
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Anand
October 29, 2008
And Agni was in 1988
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brangan
October 29, 2008
Okay. After typing that comment, I thought I’d see if “Mai ri” is on youtube. And it is. Except that it’s a Lata solo. Is there a duet version too, or is it just my memory playing tricks? Anybody? Thanks.
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raj
October 29, 2008
Guys, the question seems to be when the movie was censored and submitted for the award. So, if it actually released in 1987 but was censored and submitted before the cutoff for 1996 awards nominations, it would still compete with other 1996-released movies. There is no logic we can work out now to say which movie was considered for which year.
I am sure about Annamayya because I was following it when it happened and was expecting an award for GURU, which didnt come and went to Annamayya instead. Yeah, Agni was in 1988 – if it was submitted for 1988, then it lost out to Rudra Veena. Thats why I wished it could have been released in 1989
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raj
October 29, 2008
Anand, you are right ofcourse. Mahanadhi was in 1994. Therefore, MK is a fairly justified choice.
In 1996, the only competition from Raja seems to have been Siraichaalai and Nammoora Mandaara Hoove. Either wouldnt have been a bad choice but MK isnt a bad choice either, so ok.
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Zazu
October 30, 2008
yowza – that’s a lot of facts and figures you guys know – aren’t all those awards bought anyways? But you’ve given me names of composers I definitely need to check out
Re: your response to my comment: My bad – I didn’t read your first paragraph carefully enough to realize that you were giving a sort of back-handed compliment…thank God for unholy communions, I say 😉
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Deepauk M
October 30, 2008
brangan: Wikipedia for Dastak lists it as a duet with Lata and Madan Mohan (?) singing.
Regarding all this angst for Raja’s not getting awards (Padmashree and such) there isnt much the government can do to vindicate itself now. I think it should leave us the pleasure of quoting from GuNa:
“Sivanaik kooda piththan endru pesugindra oorada
buddhi ketta moodarukkendrum gnanap paarvai yEthadaa!” 🙂
I doubt anyone outside Raja and Kannadasan had a great sense of history. Every single one of those philosopical “thingees” that, as Baradwaj rightly said, seemed a dime a dozen when they were released will come to haunt us at a future date.
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raj
October 30, 2008
IR’s BGM for the same scene for a movie (My Dear Kuttichathan)re-released in 1996: he actually re-did the BGM for the re-release!:
http://maestromagic.blogspot.com/2008/10/44-same-scene-different-bgms.html
BR, you better finish that BGM piece now. I dont know if I can give you a better reference point for musing on different approaches to BGM – here’s the maestro scoring the same scene in 2 different ways at 2 different points in his career.
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Anand
October 30, 2008
He did the same thing for Shiva in Telugu and Shiva in Hindi.
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raj
October 30, 2008
Deepauk, marubadiyum solrean. Adhu eppadiya naan 5500 words-la pathu comment-la solradhai ore paragraph–la solrai?
“Regarding all this angst for Raja’s not getting awards (Padmashree and such) there isnt much the government can do to vindicate itself now. I think it should leave us the pleasure of quoting from GuNa:
“Sivanaik kooda piththan endru pesugindra oorada
buddhi ketta moodarukkendrum gnanap paarvai yEthadaa!” “
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brangan
October 30, 2008
Deepauk: Thanks for the Wiki look-up. As an aside, while listening to songs, do you do this exercise of trying to guess which earlier composition (if any) could have inspired it? “Mai ri” is one such. I get the feeling IR may have been inspired by it for “Vaazhkai odam sella” (in all probability, it’s just the raga, but there’s also the sad-song-with-upbeat-tempo thingee). In a similar vein, I sometimes wonder if Madan Mohan’s “Doli chadhte Heer ne” (from Heer Ranjha) could have been inspired by MSV’s phenomenal Padagotti number, “Ennai eduthu thannai koduthu.” (Lata and PS sound so similar in their respective melancholy solos, you could switch one for the other and not know the difference.) Maybe not so much in terms of movies, but in terms of music, I feel our film industry makes me feel truly blessed.
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Deepauk M
October 30, 2008
brangan: Yes! And since we are sharing I have one to add, Madan Mohan and Rafi’s “Teri Aankhon ke Siva” and S.P.B’s vaNNam koNda veNNilavE! (specially the portion yeh uthe subah jale, yeh jhukhe shaam dale … and “pakkaththil neeyumillai pArvaiyil eeramillai..”. More so because Balu confesses how much he loves Rafi nearly every opportuity he gets.
The other thing about the music is the stylistic variations. You could listen to Indian film music and if you start to question why you enjoy certain things, entire worlds of Carnatic, Dhrupad, Thumris, Khayals, Jazz, classical western (and more recently trance and hip=hop) open up to you. While they are great as a self-contained entertainment package they also function as excellent gateways to those who want to delve deeper.
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Deepauk M
October 30, 2008
Raj: Naanga precis writing-la king aakum ! But the adverse effects due of this skill (especially in our educational system) are evident in my mark sheets. 🙂
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raj
October 30, 2008
Vannam Konda Vennilave is almost note-by-note replica of MSV’s “Annai Mary Unnai Allal”
Deepauk, atthai chollu. As you would expect, I saw the beneficial of our educational system due to my expertise in imprecis-writing:-)
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brangan
October 31, 2008
I always thought Vannam konda was yin-spired by Jagadodharana…
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Aditya Pant
October 31, 2008
Deepauk/ BR: Wikipedia has the wrong info. Mai Ri Has two solo versions – one by Lata and one by Madan Mohan. If I’m not mistaken, the Madan Mohan version was not in the film. However, HMV released a few compilations where they merged the two versions to present them as one song (as they do in many compilations). This might have caused the confusion about it being a duet.
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Aditya Pant
October 31, 2008
BR: Doli Chadhte Heer is based on the traditional folk form called “Heer”. I haven’t heard the MSV song in question, but it is possible that both MSV and MM were inspired by the same folk form.
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Anand
October 31, 2008
In the movie Bhool Bhulaiyya, (remake of Manichitrathazhu), the climax song used in place of ‘Oru murai’ was a straight lift of Vannom Konda!
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Deepauk M
October 31, 2008
Aditya: I might have misunderstood the wiki. It just said Lata/Madan Mohan maybe to indicate 2 solos as opposed to a duet.
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Zero
October 31, 2008
Raj,
I too have this theory that the three national awards that were given to Raaja squarely because they were rooted in classical music. I’ve always had this perception that the jury needed a big placard held high that announces the “kind” of music in a film so that it can be quickly slotted to a type that would or wouldn’t be recognised as good enough for a national award. A cursory look at the winners over the years strongly suggests so. As far as I know, it was Rahman who significantly broke out of this “framework” and won awards for proper mainstream albums. But I also feel the staggering futility in talking about the awards that Raaja should have won. Seriously, evvLO padangaLukku koduththirukkaNum? varusham paththAdhu ‘nnEn. So, in that sense, it’s pointless anyway.
Apart from these and Padma Shri type awards, I must say I get all worked up when these Outlook type magazines come up with a “great people” list in their Independence day issue every year. It’s baffling that they never miss an MS Subbulakshmi, but don’t bother to mention Raaja unless the list is something on the lines of “10 greatest music composers of post-independence Indian cinema” with predetermined slots for composers hailing from every regional cinema. With due respect to MS Subbulakshmi and all that, of course, I can’t begin to understand how she’s a bigger hero than Raaja.
Just dropped in to share my overwhelming angst as well.
End rant.
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brangan
October 31, 2008
Zero: Ippidi sollaama kollaama blog address-a maathittele. And here I was thinking you’d given up writing after your long gushing notes on Ch-28 🙂
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Zero
October 31, 2008
Baradwaj sir,
🙂 (That blog has been in dormant existence for years actually. I write some arbit stuff, on and off, over there.)
On the topic of discussion about awards, just read your comment (#48). Couldn’t agree more with you about “the vagueness of these awards and the impossibility of taking them seriously.” I think the junta sometimes tends to take some of these awards way too seriously because of the prestige that’s associated with them. But regardless of the prestige, every award jury is just a bunch of people who’re getting together to share their opinion. They’ve all my sypathies. 🙂
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raj
November 1, 2008
Zero, theory ennamo sari dhaan. But adhukkaga Annamayya by maragadhamani? This is where our theory gets validated. Because Sagara Sangamam, Rudra Veena and Sindhu Bhairavi are colossal albums anyway. This placard-holding album getting is irritating when it is Annamayya.
While you have sympathy for the jury, I have none for the system that picks, as I mentioned, the likes of Prakash Jha to judge music, though it may only be film music. Very likely that music doesnt get properly discussed, and the jury just chooses in hurry. When in hurry, go for placards, is a good thumb rule.
On the other extreme, Ponthan Mada? That is even more baffling than the award for Kal Ho Na Ho.
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Suresh S
November 1, 2008
Hi,
Mai Re from Dastak is indeed a solo and not a duet. There are two versions of this song, one by Lata and one by Madanmohan. Both are good. I had the Madan Mohan version with me. As it generally happens, I lent that tape to a friend of mine and it has vanished since.
S.Suresh
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Zero
November 1, 2008
Of course, Raj! enna kodumai idhu ‘nRadhukku thAnE theory solRadhE. Like I said, such picks only baffle me, and make me all the more indifferent to National Awards.
And, of course, I agree with you that “the system” doesn’t seem to be picking the right people at all for the jury. Like you said, it seems very likely that the jury doesn’t even properly discuss music. oNNum sariyilla ‘nRadhukku mEla enna solRadhu.
On a side note, my comment about having sympathies for the jury was in general about any major award. As they’re the ones who are in the predicament of choosing the winner for an award of some preordained stature (which is beyond their control)! In this case, the choices are laughable and baffling to all (or at least, most) of us here. So, the vagueness (to borrow Baradwaj’s expression) is not apparent. But, in most cases, opinions on the choice for any award are well divided. In that sort of a scenario, when I disagree with a choice, I think all I can say is, well, I disagree.
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Aparna
November 3, 2008
>>like how you get used to living with a person who’s all wrong for you simply because, over time, you become immune to those wrongs
Reading this line in your post, I should say I am surprised since, for quite sometime now, I had been planning on writing a post on music along similar lines with the opening lines of my post being, ‘There are times when I feel that listening to a song again and again is like getting to know a person.’ But I never got around to finishing the post!
>>there’s no telling at what point a composition will choose to reveal its beauties to you
So true!
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vijay
November 11, 2008
Late thoughts on National awards:
If I am not mistaken, between MSV, Sivaji and Kannadaasan, they didnt have a single national award between them.
If that didnt amuse(or frustrate) you into dismissing these awards as a highly subjective/politically driven/agenda-oriented exercise, I doubt anything else will.
If I were a bigtime Raja fan like Raj, I’ll be just contented that Raja had atleast 3. Beats zero anyday.
If you read the story on how Bhavatharini, the queen of offkey singing, won the national award for singing in Bharathi, you would’nt spend a minute more pulling your hair out on why so and so didnt win the awards and all that.
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vineeth
November 19, 2008
All u guys are ignoring “Shanno Shanno” which is techinaically brilliant…. listen to it on a pair of good headphones… u will know what I mean… the arranging is out of this world!
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raveessant
December 1, 2008
I agree with the original reviewer…A R R has become passe… and his songs are slowing re-incarnating…I realize that here is a man who is trying hard not to be classified into any genre…he is a real nowhere man…sitting in his nowhere land…making all his nowhere plans for nobody…:-))
A R R wake up and smell the coffee …make music from the heart…stop sampling music…and listen to your heart..
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Keshavaya
February 9, 2009
Hi, I cant understand how to add your site in my rss reader. Can you Help me, please 🙂
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Team Roster
October 30, 2010
You you should change the post subject title Between Reviews: Music Musings Blogical Conclusion to something more suited for your webpage you write. I liked the the writing nevertheless.
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