Another superhero movie. Another opportunity to complain about how humourlessness has come to define the genre.
I’m not exactly a comic-book nut. It’s not that I know nothing. If you dropped the name Frank Miller, for instance, I’d know you’re not going on about a blunt-spoken flour-maker. But I wouldn’t be able to keep up with you in a discussion about the various Superman/Batman mythologies down the decades. All of which is to say that I approached Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice as just a movie, and for a few minutes I found it fascinating. The film begins where Man of Steel ends, with Superman and General Zod battling over downtown Metropolis, crashing into skyscrapers and reducing them to mushroom clouds of rubble – it’s a 9/11 image with the world’s most beloved superhero as the terrorist. Never mind his reasons, he’s leaving behind a ton of collateral damage. We see mostly shattered glass and morsels of concrete, but we know there are people in those buildings, and thanks to this blur in blue and red, they’re never going to see another day.
In other words, the film tells us that Superman comes with a super price tag – but this isn’t exactly news. At the end of the first major Superman movie – made in 1978, and called, quite simply, Superman – Lois Lane dies, and Superman is so grief-stricken that he goes around the earth and turns back time in order to bring her back to life. His action resides in the realm of the ghoulish: he’s re-animated the dead, a scenario that Stephen King exploited to terrifying effect in Pet Sematary. But it’s a different tone on screen. We register the ending as a happy one. Had Superman been made today, Lois Lane would have stayed dead, and the Man of Steel would have retreated to the Fortress of Solitude. Today’s superhero’s films want us to see that there’s nothing fun about having superpowers. With the two-and-a-half-hour running time that’s become the average, you’d think Superman would find a moment for a super dinner date with Lois, whisking her off to Valencia for seafood paella, after pausing to pick up a rosé in Provence. But we just see him making eggs, the usual way, on a cooking range. You’d think he’d at least use his X-ray vision.
I keep thinking of the scene in X Men: Days of the Future Past with the mutant named Quicksilver, who shares with Superman the ability to be faster than a speeding bullet. Wolverine and Charles Xavier are attempting to rescue Magneto, who’s being held in the bowels of the Pentagon. We expect action, thrills. What we get is a nudge in the ribs, a twinkling piece of movie magic. When federal guards corner the intruders in the cafeteria and draw out their guns, time transforms into Quicksilver-time – he moves so fast that the actions of the others register in slow motion. Bullets are fired, but Quicksilver knows they’ll take a while to reach their target. So what does he do? He dips a finger into a pan and licks the sauce. He knocks the cap off a guard. He pokes another guard in the cheek. Oh damn, there’s still the matter of those bullets. He rearranges their trajectories, as though moving around pins on a notice board. Who says matters of life and death cannot take a moment for the superhero to show off?
If you’re going to say that the plot of Batman v Superman is dead-serious, then allow me to argue that X Men: Days of the Future Past, too, is hardly something that calls for Jim Carrey – it’s about how the mutants could be wiped out unless they go back into the past and change history. But then, the X Men movies, the Iron Man movies and Ant-Man are glorious exceptions in the post-Christopher Nolan movie-verse, where a superhero wears not just the cowl but also the scowl. Hence the reminder, for the 853rd time, that Thomas and Martha Wayne were murdered by a mugger. Hence the use of a celestial choir even for a shootout, which makes us feel we’re meant to be watching angels escort the dearly departed souls. We get a whiff of this solemnity in the new Bond movies too, which jettison the gadgets and jokes in favour of a tragic faux-Shakespearean air that screams, “We’re suffering… Give us the Oscar already.”
Which is not to say that these are bad films (though Batman v Superman is certainly undernourished as both spectacle and drama, the cinematic equivalent of a Lamborghini fitted with a TVS-50 engine) – just that these are lumbering, one-note movies, driven by lumbering, one-note Hans Zimmer scores. There’s no lyricism, no wit. There are no grace notes. And it’s not that grace notes always have to be humorous. They can come in other flavours too – as character-revealing asides, as filmmaking showmanship, as eye-popping action, as a wink in the staging, as everything you see in Michael Mann’s Heat, the real-world answer to Batman v Superman, pitting two formidable men – a cop, a thief – against each other. It says something when the story about a duo with no superpowers whatsoever ends up more mythic than one about saviours of mankind.
Then again, who says there are no jokes in Batman v Superman? Just look at the many unintentional ones, like the spluttering villain played by Jesse Eisenberg doing his best Shah Rukh Khan imitation, or the long-suffering, hostage-ready Nirupa Roy-like Martha Kent, or the Amitabh Bachchan-Shashi Kapoor dynamics between Superman and Batman. (With those perfectly sculpted chins, you can imagine the dialogue: “Mere paas maw hai.”) It may be an accident that Martha rhymes with mata, but the Indian film resonances are no coincidence. For both the masala movie and the superhero movie are rooted in myth. It’s just that we already had myths to work from, whereas America needed the crutch of a radioactive spider or a planet named Krypton to explain what put the “super” in these heroes. Another difference. Our myths, and consequently our masala movies, have often made room for a comedy track. Hollywood, look and learn.
An edited version of this piece can be found here. Copyright ©2016 The Hindu. This article may not be reproduced in its entirety without permission. A link to this URL, instead, would be appreciated.
venkatesh
April 2, 2016
There is serious and then there is this – funereal experience this.
LikeLike
Sakkaravarthi Kaliannan
April 2, 2016
“though Batman v Superman is certainly undernourished as both spectacle and drama, the cinematic equivalent of a Lamborghini fitted with a TVS-50 engine”
perfect summary of the movie. I couldn’t wrap my head around the movie’s supposed Clash of Titans premise. How are people suppose to take things seriously when Superman cries Mommy when he gets beat up?
LikeLike
Srinivas
April 2, 2016
That was one boring movie…just loud and humorless. And that supposedly big fight to justify the Vs tag in the movie was just underwhelming
LikeLike
sanjana
April 2, 2016
the long-suffering, hostage-ready Nirupa Roy-like Martha Kent, or the Amitabh Bachchan-Shashi Kapoor dynamics between Superman and Batman. (With those perfectly sculpted chins, you can imagine the dialogue: “Mere paas maw hai.”) It may be an accident that Martha rhymes with mata, but the Indian film resonances are no coincidence.
West imitates East and found out.
LikeLike
tonks
April 2, 2016
(With those perfectly sculpted chins, you can imagine the dialogue: “Mere paas maw hai.”)
As always, puntastic 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Vishak Bharadwaj S
April 2, 2016
Hey! Nothing on the goddess from the Amazon?
LikeLiked by 2 people
KadaKumar
April 2, 2016
I felt this about the Dark Knight too. I know I am treading on dangerous territory here, what with fanboys praising the movie to high heavens and calling it an epic. But I found that movie dry, over long and boring. No humour, no exciting action- the fights were all jerky close-range ones, no sunlight even. And the Joker- who’s supposed to be “funny” in a twisted way, just came across as a neurotic psycho with showy ticks. All-in-all an underwhelming movie which took itself too seriously, with fans raving about deep philosophies, Freudian psychoanalysis, blah blah. I mean, its a billionaire who dresses up as a bat in tight spandex we’re talking about. If Joel Schumacher ruined it one way, Nolan took it to the other obnoxious extreme.
Deadpool, KickAss, Watchmen, etc. deal with superheroes the way they should be treated.
LikeLike
Jayant Pandit
April 2, 2016
Wonderful review. You have brightened my day and saved me 20 bucks, at least. Many thanks on both counts.
LikeLike
Anuja Chandramouli
April 2, 2016
There was a hilarious whatsapp forward doing the rounds… What if T Rajender had made the flick. For starters, it would have been called Martha namma Aatha! ROFL!
As for Jesse Eisenberg, I agree with you, he was the biggest joke in the film. And Amy Adams was almost as annoying. Was rooting for someone to kill her!
LikeLike
rkjk
April 2, 2016
I am not surprised that you found it underwhelming, having gone through the Rotten Tomatoes reviews. Surprising, considering that you had very good things to say about Man of Steel. I feel the other critics are being unduly harsh on this movie.
And I found plenty of sarcastic one-liners, especially in the Batman-Alfred conversations. I’m sure you’ll agree that the Marvel or X-men kind of light-heartedness just does not belong here. The examples that you’ve cited (Ant-man/Iron man) follow the same Disney committee writing formula (As did the new Star Wars) and admittedly, it works. SW7 was a fun one-time watch but it was a very mediocre film
And what is this about today’s superheroes being super serious. Maybe you missed the gazillion Marvel movies that come every year or that sleeper hit called “Deadpool”. Robert Downey does not go 2 seconds without mouthing a wisecrack.This movie was based on a comic called “The Dark Knight Returns” which is as serious as it gets. I personally love the route that Snyder has taken, which is very true to the comics and IMHO justifies the grimness in the movie. Not all movies have to be light-heated or funny or feel-good.
This batman has been toiling in Gotham for over 20 years. I think cleaning up the sewers of your city for that long is going to take its toll. At this point, he does not care about morals or ideals. He is brutal and cynical and definitely does not bother if criminals are killed.I think this is THE best batman and Bruce Wayne we’ve had onscreen and Ben Affleck kills it here. IMHO Snyder has created a better batman than Nolan did in 3 movies, where Batman’s character is just paid lip-service.
Superman is slowly coming to terms with the fact that even with his practically infinite strength, he cannot possibly help everybody, or for that matter anybody taking into account the overall scheme of things. I felt Superman wasn’t given much space in this movie and arc could have been done better. But we already have his origins story, and
I loved Eisenberg as Luthor. Sure he chanelled his inner Mark Zuckerburg here, but I think that was the intended effect. He was a bit underwhelming initially, but boy did he pull it back with that scene in the Capitol and on top of that tower, where he was really unnerving. His motives were not spelt out but they were established, albeit not completely. (A God that is all-powerful cannot be all-good). That said, I can see why people would want someone like Bryan Cranston to play the conventional Luthor. But this Luthor worked for me and I am interested in where that character goes from here.
And The opening scene actually served the function of reminding people that Batman’s mom was also named Martha and also set the tone and mood of the film. It was a typical Snyder shot and was done beautifully. I personally loved the score, which I thought was more Junkie XL (Mad Max Fury Road) than Zimmer and of course, the overall look of the movie.
Yes, this movie is no masterpiece or even a great movie. It has glaring editing issues and had like 7 threads moving at the same time. Not to mention the forced setting up of the Justice League. But there was so much to like about the movie. The action and the performances at least. IMHO It is wrong to go in with pre-conceived notions of characters as defined by some old movie in the name of nostalgia. I’ve lost count of the number of reviews which mention that this superman is nothing like Reeve or Batman like Keaton/bale.Well Duh, It is a different universe and a different story. Talk about comparing apples and oranges. Nowhere does it say that a superhero mass movie has to be light.
This movie may not have been funny, but it was definitely good fun.
LikeLiked by 7 people
brangan
April 2, 2016
rkjk: Thank you for that passionate defense of the film. It’s always lovely to hear from someone who’s in the minority, wrt to a film or book or whatever. About the humour bit, as I have explained in the piece, it wasn’t so much haha stuff as some wit and grace notes in the staging, which has become near-absent today.
LikeLike
Dude47
April 2, 2016
The most mature and layered superhero film I have seen in years. From in-your-face religious metaphors to the ancient Greek drama nature of the narrative. Have watched this a bunch of times already, and discovered something new each time. Batman v Superman cant survive in a period where Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy are considered good superhero films. This film is truly ahead of its time.
LikeLiked by 2 people
KayKay
April 2, 2016
To paraphrase an earlier Batman franchise, Batman Vs Superman: Dawn Of Justice (BVS) isn’t the Superhero Movie we need, but one that we deserve. Just days after the terrorist bombing in Brussels Airport, comes the year’s most hotly anticipated movie, with it’s fingers not so much on the pulse of the zeitgeist as it is raking bloody marks and tearing chunks of flesh from it.
Relentlessly grim and nihilistic, BVS is about city-leveling terror attacks, mass destruction and paranoia that forces people to question and turn against the Gods in their midst.
At it’s best, it’s deeply unsettling in it’s cynicism and unrelenting in it’s darkness, making it a better re-boot of the Batman Franchise than a sequel to a Superman one.
At it’s worst, it’s overstuffed with characters, over-plotted to the point of incoherence, and suffers the bane of most Modern Blockbusters: The insatiable urge to cock-tease fan boys with Easter Eggs I need to Google and franchise-building teasers for future installments.
BUT…is it any good, you ask? It is, if you can tolerate the punishing exposition-heavy and convoluted plotting of the first hour. Make it past that, and you can revel in the best Gladiatorial Carnage a 200 million budget and a fine Visual Aesthetic can buy.
Ben Affleck is a revelation, nailing the Dark Knight’s near sociopathic rage while Henry Cavill still struggles to find a balance between Benevolent God and Mild Mortal, but it’s Gal Gadot’s marvellous Amazon who effortlessly steps between the warring boys and walks away with the movie (bring on the Wonder Woman movie!). Sadly, Amy Adams’ Lois Lane is relegated to Damsel in Distress while Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor is Miscasting at it’s best (Lex Luthor as a hyper-caffeinated Mark Zuckerberg?FAIL!)
Zack Snyder continues to be an interesting director for me. His Visual Sense still far exceeds his ability to tell a coherent story, but I’ve found something to enjoy in all his movies. BVS is no different. Deeply flawed, but deeply interesting as well.
Have seen it twice. And will most likely see it again once the Director’s Cut is available on DVD
LikeLiked by 1 person
KayKay
April 2, 2016
rkjk & Dude47: Take a bow! Superb points which I concur with largely (except Jesse Eisenberg’s Luthor who I couldn’t abide).
Having read Frank Miller’s Seminal Take on Batman in both The Dark Knight Returns and Batman:Year One not to mention Grant Morrison’s Arkham Asylum and Alan Moore’s The Killing Joke, it’s near impossible to accept a lighter treatment of Batman, a deeply sociopathic vigilante bearing deep psychological wounds.
There’s a whole other conversation to be had about the fact that Batman is essentially a billionaire hurting, maiming and incarcerating people who are mostly at the other end of the economic spectrum from him.
You can bring Superman into this darker world, where his God-like power is viewed with fear and suspicion but Batman fitting into Superman’s Kansas corn-fed, bright-eyed, optimistic world view? Not gonna happen.
In fact, rather than a sequel to Man Of Steel, BvS is in fact a perfect companion piece to Snyder’s Watchmen, another superb deconstructionist take on the superhero genre.
“Our myths, and consequently our masala movies, have often made room for a comedy track. Hollywood, look and learn”
[SPOILERS BELOW]
B, don’t know about the comedy track, but you can’t say Hollywood hasn’t learnt from our movies when the Titanic Clash between Batman and Superman is resolved via our time-honored “masala” trope of the “Amma Sentiment”.
The coincidence of their mothers sharing the same name, Batman’s change of heart when he realises that he’s been presented with an opportunity to save another “Martha”, another mother when he was helpless to prevent the death of his own, his promise to Superman that “his mother will not die tonight”…..I’d swear the writers watched SP Muthuraman movies.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Srinivasa Yogananda Rao Netrakanti
April 2, 2016
No hero from Kollywood,Bollywood or for that matter from any of the Indian film industry never ventured to take a plunge into the roles or tried to reach heights in stardom by playing a comic-characters like Superman or Batman or any superheroes seen in the comic books. Most of the Indian children born and bought up in English medium schools used to adore the feats and adventures of the superheroes in movies. Only Tollywood-Telugu film industry-There is a hero-worship for them. But it was N.T.Rama Rao, the chief-minister turned actor from Telugu film industry who acted in ‘Superman’. Apart from the regular action, comedy, emotions,sentiments and romance and songs with the heroine, the movie is purely an Indianised movie-version, especially of Superman. Of course this movie did not reach the heights as the English Superman.The review of movie ‘Superman’ from IMBD by Mark R Leeper is shared here.http://www.imdb.com/reviews/410/41085.html
LikeLike
Arun Annamalai
April 3, 2016
[SPOILERS BELOW]
In the comic book universe, DC is not funny, it is dark, serious and filled with paranoia, which clearly differentiates it from Marvel based movies, so the movie was fine in sticking to that tone. But what is not OK, is the lack of depth in character/conflict building, staging and film making that as the review here mentions when compared with a movie like Heat. It lacked soul and was more stuck on the louder visual elements than the depth of the conflict between 2 super heroes. The movie raises a question about destruction due to superman’s fights and batman’s concern but does not answer it, it just gets lost in the fight and at the end the heroes are together thanks to a ridiculous juvenile plot point about the mothers of these heroes, really, this is so old and lame and cheesy. The mom hostage situation does not jell with the movie as right at the beginning Super man rescues Lois out of no where in a similar hostage situation. In fact super man’s death at the very end answers batman’s concern and resolves the question effectively.
When the question is deeply ideological (“is superman a threat to society?”), the answer cannot be a cheesy emotional response (“no he is not a threat because he came to save his mom and oh how sweet our moms have the same name”). The movie had to stress that times have changed and for battling alien villains, super man and a team is necessary for society, a solo batman will not do. I give the climax full credit for some depth with superman’s death and for setting up the future movies in this franchise but if you behave like a one night stand all through and expect to get married at the end, it is a hard pill to swallow, that is what this movie did with no depth.
Eisenberg was far better as Lex than the uber plain Kevin Spacey but a human villain character vs superman is not an equal mouth watering fight given all his powers which makes him a nightmare for screen writers as compared to Batman vs joker when it comes to making him and his villains connect with the audience.
At least Marvel has it right with an ideological conflict of the team man vs the lone wolf in captain america vs ironman, in fact it takes it a step further with iron man’s intentions of creating a war proof society which captain america vehemently opposes. Marvel has had time to build the franchise, DC is trying to catch up and guess what, there are serious quality issues.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Sandeep
April 3, 2016
If you are looking for campy fun, Batman is never the superhero. Though this movie is long and tedious, if does fan service for the comic book fans with the “Dark Knight Returns”, “Death of superman” and “Injustice” storyline.
LikeLike
brangan
April 3, 2016
[SPOILERS AHEAD]
A question for comic-book fans. How do you think Superman’s death will be integrated into future films? Will they take place in the past? In an alternate universe? Will he be “revived” in the Fortress of Solitude or something?
Just curious, because the character will go on in the movies and I wonder how the comics dealt with this death scenario.
LikeLike
Bala
April 3, 2016
@Baradwaj : SPOILERS
Well, in the comics too, I think it was revealed he never really died. And that he was just in some deep kryptonian state of recovery. Of course, they also brought in characters like the eradictor and some other pretenders to the superman position while he was recovering. In this movie toh they don’t even give that much time no ? (the dust moving from the top and all ?)
LikeLiked by 1 person
Arun Annamalai
April 3, 2016
@brangan, Superman will be resurrected, it could take a path of an evil super man first coming into the picture before the good one arrives. There is a time travel plot point which will be in the mix. We won’t see him till half way into justice league (dec 2017) unless we have a few flashback scenes or past episodes. The key is first for Batman to assemble the team with wonder woman. Before that more background will be built with Suicide squad introducing other heroes and villians and Wonder Woman’s individual movie. At the end of BvS, Lex says god is dead which is a lead up to Suicide Squad where all the villians turn up and humanity needs other heroes in his absence. That will nicely tie in with Wonder Woman’s individual movie later which will build her up as a vital member of the Justice League. I doubt they will follow the detailed and convoluted route of the comic book in Superman’s resurrection due to screen time (there are multiple arcs), safe to say his corpse will be stolen and stuffed in a chamber for revival. If they stick to the comic book, they cannot sacrifice depth as there are various concepts involved, it has to feel right.
LikeLiked by 1 person
awkshwayrd
April 3, 2016
BR: If I remember right (and I haven’t read the particular issue) he just shrugs it off and gets up one day, no big deal, ‘coz comic books!! Bryan Singer kind of did the same Super-Jesus thing in Superman Returns. So look forward to a resurrection I guess, but without a coherent reason because I can’t imagine comic fanboy Zack Snyder will bother with one either.
Btw I wish you had gone with the more lowbrow reverse ‘Mera paas ma hai’ joke, which I’m sure occurred to you:
Batman: Aaj mere paas buildings hain, bank balance hain, bat-gaadiyan hain, bat-gadgets hain .. tumhare paas kya hai?
Superman (at his most dour and boring, perfectly channelling Shashi Kapoor): Mere paas Ma – rtha hai!!
Yes I hated the trailers for this so much I didn’t go to watch it. I actually liked Man of Steel but I already got Sucker Punch-ed by creative auteur Zack Snyder once, and that “1% chance = 100% certainty pre-emptive strike” rubbish by Batfleck just turned me off. Is this Batman a straight up psychopath? Why would I want to watch him?
I know Dark Knight Returns is some kind of holy text for 40 year old teenage fanboys who are actually making and watching the movies based off that grimdark stuff now, but its actually pretty terrible. It’s over-long pointless posturing which has to create an unrealistic world just to justify it’s characters’ actions. Pretty much like this movie then.
While on the subject of creative genius Zack Snyder I assume you saw this?
http://www.salon.com/2016/03/18/ayn_rands_warped_superheroes_of_course_zack_snyders_vision_of_greatness_owes_everything_to_the_fountainhead/
Disclaimer: I actually did look around for the most sarcastic link. The mind boggles.
LikeLike
awkshwayrd
April 3, 2016
@Sandeep:
“If you are looking for campy fun, Batman is never the superhero.” I just had to react to this. I give you the pleasures of
Batman: The Brave and The Bold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:The_Brave_and_the_Bold
Batman 66 and its wonderful movie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman(TV_series)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060153/
Someday I wish some director would do fan service for me and adapt the following comic books to live action:
Superman: Birthright (aka a more coherent version of Man of Steel)
All Star Superman
Superman: Secret Identity
all wonderful Superman stories almost chock full of grace notes.
No offense intended, I just wanted to point out that the ‘source material’ does support a more human take on these characters. But as BR is pointing out for some reason, ‘grimdark’, dour, and yes pointlessly violent seem to have somehow come to mean ‘worthwhile’ and ‘awesome’, though that’s really a more general blockbuster malaise.
The negative reviews kind of make sense to me now. If I feel the need to vent so much without even seeing it just to purge the bad taste, I can only imagine the poor critics’ plight who had to sit through it. The thing is, when you spend half a billion dollars making a movie with 2 beloved and popular characters (also my 2 favourites), the general consensus shouldn’t be “it’s not as bad as the reviews suggest; it’s not terrible, just passably bad”.
LikeLiked by 1 person
rkjk
April 3, 2016
@KayKay: Danke mein Fuhrer, Danke Schon!!!!!
I think time will be kind to BvS and by extension, all of Snyder’s films. I think he is a great storyteller. MOS and Watchmen’s director’s cut are proof of this. The Dr Manhattan origin story in Watchmen was so well done. I hope he is not fired because of this movie under performing. The entire DC Cine universe is Snyder’s baby and I am already loving it.
Also, that Martha scene wasn’t so much Amma sentiment. as explained lucidly by a redditor. Until then, Superman, in Batman’s eyes was just this Alien who almost totaled the city of Metropolis and was responsible for the deaths of thousands. The typical “other”. Once he learns that Superman is trying to save his mother, and that his hand was forced, Batman realises that Superman is not just “this other” from a distant planet. Superman is also human, albeit one with superpowers. Sure, there is Amma sentiment in here, but this humanising of Superman is what stops Batman from committing murder.
I felt they could have removed that Lois Lane Africa plot. I don’t think that one thread would have made any difference to the movie. They could have based it all on the destruction of Metropolis. Speaking of Metropolis, what an amazing opening scene. Batman running towards the falling Wayne Tower, driving through the battleground that is Metropolis. And the almost surreal Batman origins story. I got my money’s worth in the first 10 minutes of the movie.
@Dude47:” Batman v Superman cant survive in a period where Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy are considered good superhero films. This film is truly ahead of its time.”
Absolutely.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Vanya
April 3, 2016
@awkshwayrd: I think you’d enjoy this book — http://books.simonandschuster.ca/The-Caped-Crusade/Glen-Weldon/9781476756691. From the blurb:
“…For more than three quarters of a century, he has cycled from a figure of darkness to one of lightness and back again; he’s a bat-shaped Rorschach inkblot who takes on the various meanings our changing culture projects onto him. How we perceive Batman’s character, whether he’s delivering dire threats in a raspy Christian Bale growl or trading blithely homoerotic double-entendres with partner Robin on the comics page, speaks to who we are and how we wish to be seen by the world.”
@Arun Annamalai: I wish Joss Whedon were writing/directing Civil War — the theme of lone wolf vs. a team is one he’s explored numerous times throughout Buffy the Vampire Slayer, extending into the comics.
LikeLike
KayKay
April 3, 2016
“I know Dark Knight Returns is some kind of holy text for 40 year old teenage fanboys who are actually making and watching the movies based off that grimdark stuff now, but its actually pretty terrible. It’s over-long pointless posturing which has to create an unrealistic world just to justify it’s characters’ actions”
Ermmm…No!
That would be the turgid All-Star Superman which seems to have made your fav list. But then again, it’s written by the overrated Grant Morrison whose only work that didn’t bore me shitless was Arkham Asylum.
About the only thing that was wrong with The Dark Knight Returns was the drawing. The lack of proportion and clean lines bordering on rough sketches was hurtful to the eyes. But the writing? From someone who’s no Miller fanboy (he’s Dumas to Alan Moore’s Proust), The Dark Knight Returns along with Year One kicks all kinds of ass.
LikeLiked by 1 person
KayKay
April 3, 2016
“A question for comic-book fans. How do you think Superman’s death will be integrated into future films? ”
SPOILERS
B, you saw the last shot just before it cut to credits right? Where the coffin shakes and the dirt on it rises? Superman will live, because, because, because….you can’t have a freaking Justice League movie without Superman and the powers that be who write the checks to fund these mega franchises will dictate he comes back alive. Just like he did in the comics. cause you can’t sell Superman comics without Superman. Economics.
Maybe the debilitating effects of Kryptonite are only temporary? Something you’ll just have to accept. Kinda like how I needed to accept that Lage Raho Munnabhai seems to have no continuity with Munnabhai MBBS or the fact that Sathyaraj’s evil politician seems to be alive in Nagaraja Cholan when he got blown away by his son in Amaidhi Padai 🙂
Heck, even Marvel only had the balls to bump off the lightweight Quicksilver, but he’ll still be alive in the X-Men Franchise because, you know… that’s the cooler version and Fox owns the rights for that.
And speaking of the X-men, specifically, X-Men:Days Of Future Past to which BvS seems to have been compared unfavorably to, I don’t suppose you were as bothered as I was that Professor X (older version) seems to have pulled a Lazarus, since he dies in X-Men:Last Stand, or the fact that Magneto(older version) who lost his powers also in The Last Stand seems to have regained them? Yes, yes I saw the post credit scene in Last Stand where Xavier transfers his conscience into the coma patient, but how did he end up looking like Patrick Stewart again? Or that Wolverine (future version) seems to have regrown his Adamantium claws in spite of having them chopped off in The Wolverine?
When it comes to appalling continuity errors, the X-Men movies are in a league of their own.
But rest assured, when Superman lives in the next installment, knives will be sharpened specifically for Snyder because he’s in that Bad Space (along with M.Night Shyamalan) where his flaws will be magnified several fold in spite of whatever virtues his movies may have. Just the way it is.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Sammer
April 3, 2016
As an avid comic book reader, I must say I found Batman v Superman (BVS) quite horrifying.
1) The main setup of the movie – fight between superman and batman was very very underwhelming . Batman’s motivations in this movie was quite stupid I say( though performed well by Ben affleck). Atleast in the comic book, the motivations was quite different..The fight between them took place due to different moral compass and philsophical views of both characters . In the movie , they were just 2 super dicks. No big difference between the two. Superman was an embodiment of certain kind of idealism – of achieving justice the right way.In the movie, In the movie, he is just one dour fellow , robbed of the traits that made him endearing. Batman on the hand, came across a stupid, vicious psychopath.(though I loved Ben affleck in this one) His motivations to fight superman – Bleh!
Batman and superman surely have no issues over randomnly killing people .
2) Lot of pointless scenes in the movie – batman dream schemes, Lois lane investigation etc. you could doze off and still miss nothing. Also to mention, the pointlessness of Superman’s death. We knew he would come back. The death scene had no significance what so ever.
LikeLike
Pradeep
April 3, 2016
I saw this movie today. I could empathize with the outrage of comic book fans over this movie.
. Anyway, below is interesting link that analyses Zack Synder’s style and explains why he is a wrong choice to direct a superman movie
http://www.vox.com/2016/3/30/11329886/batman-v-superman-bad-review-zack-snyder
and also another link that perfectly captures the difference between this movie’s superman and comic book superman.
LikeLike
KayKay
April 3, 2016
To paraphrase Anton Ego of Ratatouille: “After reading a lot of overheated puffery about your BvS, you know what I’m craving? A little perspective. That’s it. I’d like some fresh, clear, well seasoned perspective. Can you suggest a good wine to go with that?”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2016/03/29/zack-snyder-loves-superman-and-batman-v-superman-proves-it/#36c7dc95258e
LikeLike
P
April 3, 2016
I loved the movie, but I love most comic book movies, I don’t go in expecting a set template of what a comic book movie is like, so if Thor is all silly and sweet and Captain America is like he walked out of a different era- WWII, while Iron Man is all glib sarcasm- that I understand is the Disney/Marvel universe and their way of making movies, which are more child-friendly than fanboy/girl friendly- IYKWIM 🙂
Nolan/DC/Snyder are taking a different, grittier, starker route, so? You are wrong about DKR being the holy text for superhero movies- if that were true- Iron Man/Deadpool/Guardians of the Galaxy- or for that matter Lego Batman- wouldn’t exist 🙂
I don’t understand why Shakespearean drama is seen as exclusive to the purveyors of the Revenants of the world, why can’t a superhero be brooding and charming and speak in metaphors about the tragedies of the world?
I read comic books, but not obsessively- I have read enough to “get” what is happening here. But what I found more interesting than the “Easter Eggs” or even the fight scene was the good vs. evil, night vs. day, right vs. wrong debates that integrated a lot of the current political scenario into it…very well done…(did anyone else note the signboard that said “Send away the Aliens!”?)
I kinda loathe Eisenberg and was worried about how he would do it, but I found his updated take on the character(of course Lex couldn’t remain a 1940s style captain of the industry!) to be supremely scary and believable because I know CEOs/techies who are exactly like that- with the same tics and mannerisms and worst of all- world view! YIKES! 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
P
April 3, 2016
Forgot to say its laughable to think that people like Snyder/Nolan make movies to get the attention of a bunch of loathsome old fogies who happen to make up the Oscars Committee- no siree- that is the lookout of the DiCaprios of the world. Some people don’t need awards, they are just happy telling stories and making good money 🙂
LikeLiked by 2 people
rkjk
April 4, 2016
Superman does not have any motivation to fight Batman. It is Luthor who forces him to fight Batman, who he cleverly manipulated by sending those paper clippings and using that Wayne employee as a pawn.
The comic Superman was not as big a beacon of hope as people think. Most people think of Reeve but the old Superman was based on even older versions of the character. Snyder’s Superman is arguably closer to the the version presented in TDKR and beyond. While a symbol of hope, he is not a boy-scout from Kansas and has dealt with some serious issues. And Batman, seen from one perspective IS a vicious psychopath. His No Killing rule is a joke. He never interprets it literally. It should be taken as “Do as little harm as possible but save your ass first even if it means going for the kill”.
LikeLike
Arun Annamalai
April 4, 2016
@brangan or anyone, why my likes are not being registered by the site? I’m logged in with my facebook account, thanks.
@KayKay you would be surprised the death of superman arc and his subsequent absence created a boost in comic book sales when his popularity was dying and in fact when they bought him back a little quick, the reception was not positive. This is a character with a one dimensional kryptonite weakness and is too powerful for building ever lasting, varied & relatable folklore without the threat of mortality which Batman always had and has been more successful and easier to make in movies.
@Vanya yes, wish Joss Whedon did even the DC movies too, he wrote comics and is able to treat it right for adults and kids, though i was not as impressed with age of ultron. Snyder in comparison, seems like did a crash course or looked up a few comics and started making the movie, but not entirely his fault, the script writers have to take the blame, maybe they thought the mom plot point would connect better with kids but that is no excuse for lazy writing and not treating everyone equally, makes sense as there are reports of parents supporting the movie and the kid demo graph loving it plus they released it during Easter school break.
@Sammer, i concur, the dream scenes were overdone, they could have used that space for something else.
@rkjk the mom plot point just cannot be defended, it just lacked depth as a resolution, it should have been handled with a mature overreaching perspective than just a personal one and the cheesiness of having the same names in order to manipulate batman’s emotions, society took a backseat here. Lex did not have to force Superman’s hand and it is ridiculous that he even can given he rescues Lois earlier from gun point out of no where, doomsday just had to show up when the fight was happening and superman’s death will make batman see the light, batman reconciled almost instantly when martha was mentioned which is unacceptable when he has been thirsting for blood upto that point. It has to simmer and cool down, not go instant puss. Marvel is doing it right so far. Not to mention, batman’s parents death is a stale routine which almost all past movies have touched upon, everyone knows it, this movie is about the conflict. I think its the love for these characters that makes it hard to hate the movie, which i felt when i walked out of the theatre that it is not that bad but when i started digesting it i could see that there was so much potential to have been a great movie.
LikeLike
Siva
April 4, 2016
This movie was a disappointment. It was not a bad movie, but a huge disappointment. Why? Because I’m excited about watching Captain America:Civil War a.k.a Ironman vs. Captain America – two characters I heard about some 7 years ago (I’m 23). However. there was nothing remotely exciting about Batman vs. Superman – two characters I’m sure all of us have known since we could probably speak. Why? Because DC is trying to catch up with Marvel, and are trying to do in one movie, what Marvel has established over a dozen ones.
Superman was wasted completely and the reason he fights Batman – Lex stole my mommy- was absolutely ridiculous.
And the whole thing about DC being serious – it’s not a bad thing if you use it in the right way. Case in point: Netflix’s Daredevil (ironically, that’s Marvel property). The first season of that show is something on a whole another level. Closest to Breaking Bad or The wire a comic book property is going to get.
So its probably Zack Snyder, if not the studio….How do you make a Batman fights Superman movie a meh one ? Seriously ….
LikeLike
olemisstarana
April 4, 2016
“If you dropped the name Frank Miller, for instance, I’d know you’re not going on about a blunt-spoken flour-maker.”
DAD JOKE ALERRRRT
😀
LikeLiked by 1 person
Altman
April 4, 2016
Regarding the integration of prevailing political scenario of the US in the movie, here is a review from Newyorker comparing Batman V Superman to Democrats Vs Republicans.
http://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/batman-v-superman-is-democrats-vs-republicans
LikeLike
Sakkaravarthi Kaliannan
April 4, 2016
Need to get this out. DC could rename it’s universe the Batman universe if they continue to release dark gritty DC movies. It’s not their fault entirely that they got Batman right 6 times out of 8, they literally have their formula right there. Heck Burton’s movie laid the groundwork for the animated series, the noir style which made for one of the best Batman adaptation ever. And somehow this noir style got mistaken for dark and Nolan’s series opened up Pandora’s box of dark and gritty. Superman in this movie was just space Batman, Wonder Woman Greek Batman, Flash speedy Batman.
Superman stands for hope, the light that shines in the darkness, the true American justice, the same way I connect to Captain America. An alien who adopts Earth as his home and would do anything to protect it, who is the exact opposite of what Batman is. But no Snyder had to put Superman through the Batman lens else people won’t pay to see it.
I love Batman and Superman(and a lot of superheroes, but coming to this), but man movie was disappointing. All the rage against critics is belony seeing the revenue for the second week slumped 68%, meaning people did not like it as well. Compare that to other superhero movies and you can clearly see there are deep problems with the movie. If only George Miller had his way with his Justice League movie.
The only thing I am looking forward to now is this:-
LikeLike
Arun Annamalai
April 5, 2016
@rkjk Superman did not need any motivation, he was already riled up by Batman’s tatoo branding acts and he goes on a warning mission (telling him not to respond to the bat signal), Batman after getting ready with kryptonite beams the bat signal to facilitate a confrontation, so the fight would have happened without Lex meddling into it. Plus after the first rescue act, just cannot imagine anyone pulling of a hostage situation against Superman, he rescues Lois from gun point, faster than the trigger can be pulled. The screen play is inconsistent whichever way you look at it. I just cannot hate the movie but have to see it for what it is.
LikeLike
rkjk
April 5, 2016
@Arun Annamalai Motivation enough to kill him, or even fight him one on one? I don’t think so. Kent clearly does not approve of Batman but does not really consider him a threat. He is obviously unaware of the Bat possessing Kryptonite and thinks that Wayne’s meddling into Gotham’s affairs must be stopped, but using minimal force and only if matters escalate to a point where Batman is getting way out of hand.
And I admit that the entire Lois-Africa plot was ill thought out. The way I see it, the movie didn’t even need that thread for Superman to be seen as dangerous. But the “Superman should have sniffed out his mother being kidnapped 200 miles away” point is just plain nitpicking. Poor guy can only be in so many places at once. And this is Lex Luthor we are talking about, a power-crazy genius and not some unnamed terrorist. He manipulates both Bats and Supes into taking each other head on. I think he can keep a hostage, even if the rescuer has Superpowers. It also demonstrates Luthor’s ruthlessness and shows that he will do anything to get his way, even if it means unleashing a potentially World-destroying monster called Doomsday.
Seen another way, the kidnapping is just a MacGuffin. Something to make the titular fight happen and move the story forward. I couldn’t care less if the reason was Bats eloping with Lois or something.
LikeLike
Arun Annamalai
April 6, 2016
@rkjk, Superman will not go looking for a fight but Batman is keen, he will make sure the fight happens and hence he beams the bat signal (otherwise what is the point of this scene? that is the only reason as he is prepped and ready), and once anyone is threatened for their life that is motivation enough to retaliate, Superman ain’t going to run. Regarding the 200 miles thing, when superman rescues lois when she is pushed over by Lex besides the first rescue act, it shows he is tuned into his girl friend more than his mother, alright, lets give him leeway here but the point is it spoils the illusion, not once but twice. A movie is an illusion that has to maintain perfection within its universe, logical inconsistencies will pull one out of it. Superman/Lex are not as famous as Batman/Joker (movie collections prove it), Why? because it is not an even match, Superman could have snuffed him anytime (when the character is that powerful, leeways are harder, marvel does not have something similar, reason why Nolan prefers to direct batman movies), its his moral compass that is the issue, batman/joker are both mortals, it is an even playing field. Look at Marvel’s movies, there is a reason why they have not had such a wide love-hate reaction. DC did not do justice to a large section of the viewers like Marvel has done. This movie was given the treatment of a boxing fight, what more can one expect from a director who has the movie 300 to his credit, it was all about the fight then and it is the same now. Coming to your last point, It has to be a believable macguffin.
LikeLike
Bunny
April 6, 2016
‘and jokes in favour of a tragic faux-Shakespearean air that screams, “We’re suffering… Give us the Oscar already.”’
That sums up the guilt politics of contemporary cinema. These days watching cinema for entertainment has become a sin, as if the cure for cancer lied in watching sombre movies.
LikeLiked by 2 people