Looking back at the Ilayaraja era, which began forty years ago, with the release of ‘Annakili’ on 14 May, 1976.
So Ilayaraja’s music and I, we’re both in our forties. This doesn’t mean that his is the only music I grew up with. The songs on radio and television came from the 60s, 50s, sometimes even the 40s, during special programmes that would give rise to debates among elders as to who was better: MK Thyagaraja Bhagavathar or PU Chinnappa, Saigal or Pankaj Mullick. (Apparently, no generation can resist the “who is greater?” dispute.) But Ilayaraja’s was the music that marked my generation, like inches on a height chart, like candles on a birthday cake. It’s like he was giving us presents, in the form of new songs, to mark our schooldays, our days at college, our first (or third) job interviews – heck, the man was so prolific, he was giving us new songs to mark our Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays… It’s hard to explain (and I’ve tried, oh I’ve tried) to younger cousins and colleagues what it was like to be in the Ilayaraja era. But let me try again.
Let me go back to some random year, say, 1983. We’d get Thaamaraikodi, a soaring announcement of adolescent love with guitars bubbling out of one speaker and a harmonica exhaling through the other one, and then we’d get a funky dance number like Onnum theriyaadha paapa, and then there’d be a semi-classical duet like Raathiriyil poothirukkum that would sound like Srinivasa thiru venkata mudayai (and then we’d see it was the same raga, Hamsanandhi), and then we’d get Kamal going bonkers around a well in Thakita thadimi, and then a wispily moustached hero in an Oliyum Oliyum programme would unleash another declaration of love in Geetham sangeetham, and then the boy in the next seat in class would be humming O maane maane, and then we’d get a song that’d sound strangely arrhythmic (Kanavu ondru thondruthey) and we’d have to wait to grow up a little to fully get it, and then a Telugu-speaking classmate would come back from his holidays with a cassette filled with Emani ne and Eureka saka mika, and then we’d tell him what he’d missed, Eeramaana rojave and Vandhaale alli poo and Vaanam keezhey and Pothi vacha malligai mottu…
And then we’d discover that it wasn’t just these songs that played on the radio, that the albums had songs they couldn’t fit into radio play lists simply because there was already a backlog of Ilayaraja songs to play, and so we’d seek out the cassettes and find that the Thanga Magan album also had Adukku malligai, that the Vellai Roja album also had Nagooru pakkathile. So we’re not just talking about songs that became hits. We’re talking about albums that kept yielding hits. It’s like one man in Madras was putting out at least one Thriller every month. In Tamil. In Telugu. In Kannada. In Malayalam. In pop. In rock. In folk. In jazz. In Western Classical. In Carnatic. In Hindustani. All of which he’d toss into the blender inside his head, that wonderful bald head that wasn’t so bald those days, and pour out his patented genre-smoothies. The very Western-sounding beginning of Kodai kaala kaatre (it could be a late-sixties pop hit The Hollies might have sung) would give way to an interlude in which a solo violin would start playing like a coconut-shell fiddle from a village deep South, with rustic drumbeats to match. Or, in Manjal andhi velaiyo, an electric guitar would glide through Carnatic-sounding passages that a lesser composer might have used the veena for. None of this would sound odd, out of place.
It’s not that the music could be enjoyed only with all this analysis, either. It is commonly believed that the songs that become popular are the simple songs and that if you begin to layer in complexities, you’ll lose the “common man.” But all of Ilayaraja’s hits straddled breadth of appeal with depth of musicianship. So after you got past the instant appeal of the song (and these songs wormed into your ear on the first listen), you’d realise what was beneath the beats and the voices and the immediately apparent instruments. You’d see, for instance, a bass guitar hugging the voice. You’d see counterpoints, even if, at the time, you didn’t know the word for them was “counterpoints.”
There’s a thesis waiting to be written about how Ilayaraja subverted music-making not just in the obvious ways – his elaborate instrumental passages; the astounding inventiveness with which he imparted joyous new colours to traditionally one-note instruments like the shehnai, which, those days, was whipped out whenever a top-ranking Delhi politician kicked the bucket; the use of voice as one of the “instruments”; or the use of an instrument as a parallel voice (the bass guitar in Megam kottattum, the flute in Yerikkarai poongaatre) – but in the manner he brought preludes and interludes to the fore. Earlier, these instrumental stretches, however brilliantly done, were ultimately sips of water between courses of the main meal, which was served by the vocal parts. But in many Ilayaraja songs, the vocals could be considered the filler, something to bide time till you got to the real meat of the song, the interplay between instruments.
Which isn’t to say Ilayaraja was a slacker in thinking up tunes. Nadhiyoram naanal ondru or Vaa ponmayile or Ennai thottu or Oranchaaram are so beautifully tuned that they’d stand without any instrumental backing. Or take Kaadhalennum kovil. If you get really geeky, like we did those days, and chart time on the X-axis and the notes on the Y-axis, you get the temple-like dome the song talks about. So it isn’t that he was a lesser tunesmith. It’s just that he loved writing for instruments more than composing for voices. (Nothing else can explain, at least to me, some of the utterly ordinary vocalists he worked with. And, in contrast, the brilliance of his background scores.) When you look at a song like Azhagu aayiram, it’s practically meaningless without the call-response play between distorted guitar effects, the flute, the singer’s humming, cascades of violins and piano runs, all timed with the precision of a Swiss watch. Behind the music, there was mathematics. Behind the heart-warming art, there was the cold precision of an architect. Not a brick was out of place.
This touched-by-God preciseness proves a problem for some of the younger generation. The music is too… controlled, they’ll say. But if Ilayaraja is controlled, then so are Mozart and Beethoven. You don’t get the “hey, it’s just some guys jamming” feeling with their music either. But I do see other reasons Ilayaraja’s music doesn’t reach across to younger listeners as much it should, as much as we’d like it to. The videos, for instance. Every time I tell someone to look a song up, they’ll go to YouTube, and end up watching eye-blinding clothes on a couple executing dance steps styled after exercises in PT class. Once you’ve seen those images, once you’ve laughed at them, it’s hard to take the song seriously.
Another thing could be the sound, which wasn’t so much an issue with pre-Ilayaraja composers like MS Viswanathan, because their use of instruments wasn’t as dense. Sound wasn’t much of an issue with our generation either, given the shoebox two-in-ones we had, or the rudimentary quality of speakers in the cinema halls. But with today’s headphones and post-Rahman-era sensibilities, one can see that Ilayaraja’s sound engineers let him down on several occasions. I sometimes wish that someone – perhaps Ilayaraja himself – removes the rough edges from his songs, re-records them with people who know how to make, say, the trumpets sound less strident, the tabla less metallic-sounding, bring some high-low balance between instruments so they don’t all sound like they’re crouched in the same decibel range. Ilayaraja’s recent soundtrack for Neethane En Ponvasantham showed us what a difference such spit-and-polish can make. The violins in Saaindhu saaindhu sound like they have silk threads for strings.
But regardless of the form, the content still stands. There will always be songs that work and songs that don’t – but I am talking about the style, which we refer to as “Ilayaraja-esque.” After forty years, this style has not gone stale – we are still in some sort of Ilayaraja era. And it isn’t just about a Tamil composer like D Imman, whose songs sound like a devotee’s homage to his deity. Have you listened to Ajay-Atul’s blockbuster soundtrack for the just-released Sairat, which has become the highest-grossing Marathi movie of all time? Put the music under a microscope and you’ll see Ilayaraja’s DNA. But who has the time to educate newbies when there’s so much we ourselves have to discover, so many songs that went unnoticed because all we heard were the big hits from the album, and before we got to hear the other songs, the next big hits were upon us? Like the Keladi Kanmani soundtrack. When the film came out, it was all about Nee paadhi naan paadhi and the breathless Mannil indha kaadhal, and then, after some months, you stumbled into a seriously sexy number called Thanniyila nananja, with the bass guitar, flute and saxophone in a heated ménage à trois. The Ilayaraja era transforms music lovers into archaeologists. The more you dig, the more you find.
An edited version of this piece can be found here. Copyright ©2016 The Hindu. This article may not be reproduced in its entirety without permission. A link to this URL, instead, would be appreciated.
GS
May 21, 2016
At last BR!!!! A small piece on IR. Would love read more of him. Solla innum nerayaa irukku 🙂
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Suganth
May 21, 2016
“and these songs wormed into your ear on the first listen” Start music!!! 😉
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Sowmya:)
May 21, 2016
I just finished reading ‘Dispatches from the wall corner’ and was wondering why you don’t write about music in your reviews as much as you had done previously ( eg Jodha Akbar). Is it a deliberate choice or do the music in recent movies not impact you so much ?
This lovely post more than made up for it all though!
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NARENDIRAN S
May 21, 2016
Wow.What a great write up..How beautifully put that we are transformed into archealogists…That applies not only to albums but even to singles..Each time u discover new sounds and new instruments!
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Raghavan Rengachari
May 21, 2016
lovely lovely!
and took me a while to find “Thanniyila nananja”; finally found it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTvD1tfUnII
and “ménage à trois”? adhellAm apdiyE varradhdhAm la? 😀
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lakshmi
May 21, 2016
Beyond beautiful! Both how and what you have written. 🙂
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Saran
May 21, 2016
The ‘Ilaiyaraja Official’ channel in Youtube is uploading songs of amazing sound quality that requires HD headphones. I think these songs will bring him to youngsters and re-start a discussion about him
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Akhilan
May 21, 2016
A written masterpiece BR…!! Reading this was an experience in itself and surely transported me to that era… As someone who isn’t very familiar with Ilayaraja’s body of work nor his contribution to music (I’ve probably heard just a couple of the songs you’ve mentioned here), this was simply a treat to read…
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sanjana
May 21, 2016
Duke Orsino:
If music be the food of love, play on,
Give me excess of it; that surfeiting,
The appetite may sicken, and so die.
Twelfth Night Act 1, scene 1, 1–3
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Diwakar
May 21, 2016
Awesome read… thanks for writing….raja the king
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gvsafamily
May 21, 2016
BR, what an analysis!
I am not a music person, I don’t know the technicalities, the layers et al and I would never be able to express this as eloquently as you do/did- but there is something so so mesmerizing, so magnetic about IR’s music, that even today, decades after they were released I continue to be drawn to his songs as if they were introduced to me yesterday. Be it spending a good ten minutes every morning to fish out the choicest songs from his endless array for my workout or soaking in his therapeutic tunes after a day’s hard work, IR still remains my go-to music man for all seasons and all reasons.
(In fact today morning’s workout choice was Agni Nakshatram :))
I was on a trip to a hill station recently – driving along winding roads, watching puffy clouds float above verdant green estates, feeling the cool breeze on my face, with lovely IR songs playing out in the golden voices of KJY, SPB, SJanaki, Chitra – what heavenly three hours they were!
The Rahmans and the Amit Trivedis are producing magic, no doubt and I do love magic, but soul-stirring stuff? Give me IR anyday!
Oh boy, had to gush…
PS. “Wonderful bald head”? Ahem, sandhula sindhu vera 🙂
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lakshmi
May 21, 2016
Interesting title… no music related word and yet very apt.
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rothrocks
May 21, 2016
I can’t even imagine what it would have been like in the 80s – to be showered with musical goodies literally all the time. Even somebody like Frank Zappa wasn’t prolific as Ilayaraja. I say Zappa because Raja wasn’t just making film music; as you said there is a lot of complexity beneath the superficial layer of accessibility so how he could put it all together at his astounding speed is mindboggling. As his latest Hindu interview suggests, he is a little frustrated that the full import of his work hasn’t yet been appreciated here but that ironically is the curse of the medium he chose. If there is an example of a composer who is too good for IFM it has to be Raja and this comes from a lover of the Hindi oldies.
There’s one aspect I have rarely seen discussed either by fans or Raja himself – what was the extent of influence of Rajan Nagendra on IR. A song like Jeeva Veene brings IR to mind more strongly than do MSV or Madan Mohan or Mozart. Also stumbled on Mancini’s Greatest Gift instrumental track (from the score for Return of the Pink Panther) and I was surprised by how it resembled something IR would have done. And yet IR mentions John Williams or Hans Zimmer but not Mancini. Are some influences too close for comfort? 😉
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Tambi Dude
May 21, 2016
Great post BR. You might want to watch this interview of SPB , taken by a friend of a friend of mine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lfaoRySX28 -> part1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTNLG0CXI3s -> part2
I believe 6 more to come.
Lot of interesting trivia about 80s.
I didn’t know that the song from Satya (Valai Osai) was bit recycled from a piece from How to Name it. Still couldn’t find the link (any help here).
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brangan
May 21, 2016
Sowmya:) Yes, I did write more music pieces while at Express. It’s just time, etc., the kind of work I do now, that I probably don’t as much now.
Tambi Dude: Thank you so much for those links. I love how confident and comfortable he is with his genius. Just the right distance between being boastful and overly modest. He knows what he has and isn’t shy talking about it. Just love that.
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Ravi K
May 21, 2016
Some of IR’s funkier tracks have gained a bit of a cult following in the West. There are a few compilations of his songs released on CD and LP in the past few years. I have “Fire Star,” which is pretty good collection.
http://www.phonicarecords.com/product/view/107554
Ashim Ahluwalia’s “Miss Lovely” features some of IR’s instrumental interludes in the score, IIRC, playing on the speakers in a party scene, and they work perfectly.
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KadaKumar
May 21, 2016
I find too much Ilayaraja circlejerking happening these days. Even the so-called younger generation guys think its cool to go retro and deify Ilayaraja.
But just think about it. Ilayaraja was pretty much the only music composer in the 80s, easily eclipsing promising candidates like Shankar-Ganesh. He was effectively a factory that churned out assembly line music for every damn movie that was made. Considering that the mediocre Tharai Thappattai was his 1000th movie, and averaging 6 songs a movie, we have a collection of ~6000 songs composed by him.
Now how many of these songs do we cherish today? A hundred? Forget appreciation by today’s audiences, even if you include into the chartbusters and popular songs of those times, even by fairly sympathetic standards, we cannot honestly claim more than 200-300 or so good songs of his.
Which means his hit-ratio is a paltry 5%. That is, one in every 20 or so compositions of his is actually liked by audiences. This is a pathetic success rate. One that wouldn’t aid a successful career, unless bolstered through other sneaky deals.
Lets face it. Apart from the oft-quoted classics which everybody reminisces about fondly, most of Ilayaraja’s songs were unmemorable fillers wasted on forgettable movies. Take any average movie of the 80s. High chance that Ilayaraja is the composer, and likely that you don’t care for any of those songs.
Passage of time has ensured that only his rare gems, the classics, have survived in public memory. Ilayaraja today is an icon of collective nostalgia and selective memory. So while enjoying his good work, we must put it in perspective and remember that its but a small fraction of his large body of work, much of it mediocre.
Compare this with ARR. Almost every song of every album of his in the 90s was catchy and memorable. Age has taken its toll on him too now, and these days his success rate isn’t the same, what with sporadic beauties amidst songs that make you go ‘is this even Rahman?’. But even taking that into account, his selectivity ensures that quality is maintained to a great extent. As in, he doesn’t monopolize the market by hogging every release, the way Ilayaraja did in the 80s.
I know that I might be pounced for this strong negative opinion by fanboys, but I still think its worth discussing at least. Instead of blindly jumping the bandwagon and singing praises of Ilayaraja.
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VenkateswaranGanesan (@_Drunkenmunk)
May 22, 2016
Tambi Dude: Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmX7MJbVygI
Bosskey is in fact the emcee there too. It was Nothing But Wind btw. Not HTNI 🙂 NBW released 1988, the year Sathya came. HTNI was 1986. Oh and btw, some outstanding banter between Raaja and Uttam Singh too.
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Shankar
May 22, 2016
Baddy, thanks! 🙂
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Babu
May 22, 2016
Thanks Baradwaj for a wonderful article on the greatest music composer the world has ever seen and will see.
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Babu
May 22, 2016
Not a king of his times, but an emperor of all times.
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Prasanna Ramachandran
May 22, 2016
What a difference sound engineering makes. Thanks for explaining it in a way only you can.
On a different note, what are your thoughts on the music/sound Ilaiyaraaja produces today compared to that of the 80s? More generally, it seems that we often hark back to the “golden days of IR/ARR”. Rahman is 24 years old in the industry and still going strong, but I would dare say there isn’t a Rahmaniac who doesn’t long for the kind of music he churned out unfailingly in the 90s. With IR we think of the late 70s and 80s as the golden period. What is it about 90s Rahman and 80s Ilaiyaraaja? Is these difference between classic AR/IRR and present day AR/IRR just our perception? Is it our failure to acknowledge that all people, even legends, evolve over time? Are we simply stuck in what we have grown comfortable with, and refusing to change along with them? Are there real, objective differences in their output? I have wrestled with this question for a long time, and would love to hear your thoughts.
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Tambi Dude
May 22, 2016
@kada: i find ARR’s signal to noise ratio pretty bad too. how many of us want to listen to kadhalan , indian songs.
The difference between IR and ARR is that IR’s song touch the soul too.
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Tambi Dude
May 22, 2016
“Almost every song of every album of his in the 90s was catchy and memorable.”
Your personal opinion passed off as fact ??? For starters I hated the songs of Kadhalan, specially Urvashi URvashi. I also disliked songs of Indira, Karuthuma, Mutthu and many.
With time our taste changes. what we liked 20 yrs ago may not be our favorite music today.
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Tambi Dude
May 22, 2016
@kadakumar: the big mistake you are doing is that you are trying to analyze the music of IR’s 80s movies as it sounds today and then assuming that it would have been the same back in 1980s too.
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brangan
May 22, 2016
Prasanna Ramachandran: I don’t think that much anymore about what one is doing now versus one did in the past. I know this sounds very Zen 🙂 , but it’s really a combination of not having all that much time to think about this and achieving some kind of peace and closure about Raja’s synth phase.
There was a time in the 90s/00s I used to get really angst-y about Raja’s sound recording (when he started using the synth almost exclusively as the main music-generating instrument) vis a vis Rahman’s and Harris’s. (Especially Harris. Man, forget the songs — what sound that man’s studio produces. What wouldn’t I give to have his sound guys have a go at Raja’s songs from, say, Kannukkul Nilavu.) But not so much now.
These days, I listen to an album once, maybe twice. And if doesn’t do it for me (like that “Foolishq” song), I move on. There’s lots of music out there — and more importantly, lots of music composers out there doing very good stuff. And when I say “very good stuff,” I don’t mean complex or “lasting till the end of time” or whatever. I just mean whatever touches me or makes me smile or produces a reaction.
Like this song from Sarbjit:
It’s the simplest song. A slightly tricky tune, with unexpected dips in the mukhda/pallavi. A singer’s song, sung beautifully, backed up with minimal instruments. Really does something to me. Will I listen to it a week from now? I don’t know. Eckhart Tolle-ing my way through life, I guess 😀
This is another recent song that I love:
Another thing. As much as musicians dominate an era, they aren’t everything. Like in the 80s, one of the songs that gave me most joy was “Pournami neram…” It’s not that Raja hasn’t done songs like this, or that this is a very unique song. But THIS particular song, THIS particular five-minute distribution of joy, came from Shankar-Ganesh (and Vairamuthu and SPB, of course).
So I guess I’m saying that one should also be open to accidental discoveries and not close oneself off. What Raja has done is more than enough to ensure his immortality (at least in my eyes), so what he’s doing today can only add to his lustre or keep it at the same level — it cannot DETRACT from his achievements.
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rothrocks
May 22, 2016
@ kadakumar In short I was very much into Rahman’s music in the 90s. And I have worn out many of those songs now. Why? Because they were/are more of cultural zeitgeists and I can no longer relate to songs with incomplete/incoherent interludes or even vocal lines. Like I don’t remember anymore what I liked about the Aiyiyo song from Rangeela. If IR’s speed affects his hit rate, Rahman’s music rarely transcends the time, place and, most importantly, the film situation for which it was composed. With more memorable films like Bombay or Duet it is easier to recall the context plus the director allowed more space for Rahman to express emotions. But what about duds like Lovebirds? What’s so great about the Romeo song? IR was and is a composer and esp when working for weak films will satisfy his own needs (which apparently rubbed some filmmakers the wrong way) while Rahman is too wedded to the film’s requirements. This is the difference between their approaches and who you prefer depends on which approach you relate to. As a music lover I prefer Raja’s approach because his spontaneous ideation makes his work more unpredictable (albeit within the boundaries of a strong signature). Others may have a different view which they are entitled to. But let’s not go “us fanboys are more sensible than you fanboys” in this space; that’s unproductive.
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Srinivasa Yogananda Rao Netrakanti
May 22, 2016
A king is a king whatever the era he reigned. For an ever-green musician like Ilayaraja, he does not belong to a particular time. As a king he continues to reign the music-kingdom of South Indian languages and also Hindi, with different genres of music as his subjects.He bought a new wave in the music world. As a musician he maintained a fine balance between Classical and Commercial films.In Telugu, he worked with K.Viswanath, Bapu who directed films with a classical element at the same time with K. Raghavendra Rao and A. Kodanda Rami Reddy who directed commercial-touch films. All the films directed by Telugu directors happened to be musical hits. The one and only Telugu film directed by Mani Ratnam ‘Geetanjali’ owes its success due to the music composed by Iiayaraja..If the film-music were to be divided into two eras, It can easily be divided into pre-Illayaraja era and post-Illayaraja era.he is really the director’s and lyricists musician.The innumerable songs in the combination of SPB, Janaki/P.Susheela/Chitraa or even S.P.Sailaja in Telugu were all musical hits. In fact, who can forget, the one and only direct Telugu song sung by Illayaraja along with P. Susheela in ‘Coolie No.1, for a commercial hero like Venkatesh on a nuptial night. The hallowness in his voice adds a very characteristic romantic touch to to the song.
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Madan
May 22, 2016
On a somewhat related note, I am in Chennai for a stay and found that on weekend afternoons, radio stations play a lot of IR (don’t know which ones play MSV/TKR, corresponding to Hindi’s SJ/SDB). And I heard Ennaku Piditha Paadal from the dud Julie Ganapathy. I remember liking the song a little after when it came out (I came to know only through raaga.com but it was around 2005 only). Had the song too really been a dud as is the claim often made of noughties-IR, it would have been forgotten. But it was played (about 13 years after its release), followed by the sort of not-bad Andha Naal Nyabagam from Adhu Oru Kanakaalam. IR’s songs continue to outlive the films they were scored for, continue to stand up well to the test of time and shine brighter on reassessment. But the fans who were pampered in the 80s when he had so many more assignments have not moved on and adjusted to the new reality. I wish he would play more of his new compositions in his televised shows. He did that in the Jaya TV show from 2005 (?) but seems to have gone totally retro of late. I believe that Jaya TV show was the first time I heard Enna Solli Padhuvadho and was glad to discover another gem.
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Madan
May 22, 2016
By “little after it came out” I meant that I heard and liked it couple of years after its release. But it was more or less love at first listen.
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Sifter
May 22, 2016
From the tons of songs, Metti Oli Kaatrodu En Nenjai is one song that is an absolute favourite of mine. Something about the way the simpleness of the tune, his singing, the picturisation, the acting tugs at the heart 🙂
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Srinivasa Yogananda Rao Netrakanti
May 22, 2016
He knows how to ‘Score’music well both on the background and foreground not only on a ground. He knows not only about ‘Pitch’ but also about ‘Intonation’. He know how to make everything score he made or composed a musical ‘Hit’. All ‘Hits are ‘Note’ worthy All are beyond fours and sixes. They are’Octaves’. He is not a baron with a ‘Bat’on. He is the King of the Indian Cine Music World with a scepter wielding a control over the ragas.
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KadaKumar
May 22, 2016
@Tambi Dude and @rothrocks
At some level all art if subjective blah blah. If that is the level of discourse, then any further discussion is pointless. We need to quantify the merits or demerits of a song in someway- say by its popularity- based on casette sales, its radio plays, its youtube views and likes,…Admittedly any such parameter would be unsatisfactory to many, but we have no other meaningful approach than statistics in judging the quality of a song. Technical aspects should ideally be subsumed into the statistics.
“Carnatic or Beethoven doesn’t have mass appeal, does that mean its not of great quality?” Lets keep in mind that we are working with a mass market like Tamil cinema here, not some niche hipster scene. The aim of the composer is to reach out, with each song, to some segment of the audience at least, if not all. Artistry comes into play only with this constraint, and there is certainly sufficient leeway for an artist to explore here. So there isn’t anything inherently wrong in judging a song by its popularity and the tangible parameters it provides. There really is no other less-subjective way of approaching this discussion and judging the output as good or bad.
“How can you have simplistic blanket categories like good or bad music, that too based on immediate popularity alone? Some music remain timeless while others are passing fads, some grow on you while others make a good first impression but wear out”
True. Some pieces age well, while others sound jaded after a few years. This again can be measured by statistical data, if we can access them. For instance, you can see youtube comments of the type “listening to this in 2016, still fresh”. Youtube can give you data on number of views in different time periods, and that might be helpful in distinguishing zeitgeists from classics. Not perfect, but a sensible step.
“But Ilayaraja’s music touches my soul, while others work at a more superficial level”
You’re talking out of your ass now. I am guessing you are in your forties now, and grew up listening to Ilayaraja. Well, I am in my twenties and grew up listening to ARR, so I could say that his music penetrates my soul (ugh) while Ilayaraja doesn’t do much for me. This soul stuff and all is irrelevant fart.
Anyway my point still stands. Ilayaraja gave some 6000 songs, of which you might relish hardly a hundred or two hundred at most. Be honest. How many Ilayaraja songs do you remember and enjoy? Even if your list is long, it’ll be but a tiny fraction of 6000. Face it, most of his music was crappy fillers nobody cared about then, and certainly nobody remembers now. This is the downside of him being so prolific and dominating the scene for 15 or so years.
We remember only his few very best songs, while the innumerable fillers are forgotten (if they were even noted in the first place). And they are amazingly good, of course. But lets not go from “These songs are awesome” to “Ilayaraja is a genius”. This is where the 6000 comes to play spoilsport.
And this is where ARR scores- his consistency is relatively much better. It was staggering earlier. Almost all his albums were hits in the 90s. But even now, an ARR musical is awaited with anticipation, though we know its more of a hit-or-miss these days. This has never been the case with Ilayaraja, since “Music by Ilayaraja” was the default, and hardly upped any anticipation. Its worth pondering if Rahman being as prolific as Ilayaraja would have dented his consistency, but thats a pointless hypothetical. The reality is that Rahman has been selective and consistent, while Ilayaraja has been a factory of mediocrity with a few gems every now and then.
You say you didn’t like Kadhalan, Indira, Love Birds etc. Fair enough. I liked them, though they weren’t his best. But thats beside the point. The point is that you can name ARR albums you didn’t like from the 90s. But you can’t name Ilayaraja albums you didn’t like. Because you don’t even remember them. You probably never even paid much attention to them in the first place. There are just too many of them. You can only name Ilayaraja songs and albums that you liked. Because there are relatively few of them.
You might say that Kadhalan, etc. were simply zeitgeists, and aren’t timeless classics. Its too early to judge that. Because people who grew up with ARR are still in their early thirties at most. At that young age, they would still keep up with new music. Maybe when we reach 40 or 50 and we lose our grip on zeitgeists and start looking back, we too would go the “Music sucks these days. In our time, it was so much better”-route and start celebrating the ARR songs we grew up with. With each song attached intimately to childhood events, memories and phases.
The smashing “Chiku Buku Raile”, “Mukkala Mukabla” and “Humma Humma” that you “danced” to in front of fawning relatives.
The “Pettai rap” whose lyrics you struggled to mug up and recite together with friends between classes.
The pleasant “Athangara Marame” that kept playing on oliyum-oliyum on Doordarshan and momentarily took you to virgin pastures and fantasies of a morapponnu.
The grand “Chandralekha” whose dancer you had a secret crush on.
The “Mettu Podu” that introduced you to an instrument called saxophone.
The iconic “Mustafa Mustafa” that your older cousins considered an anthem, making you yearn to grow up and be cool like them- with bikes and cigarettes.
The classic “Chaiya Chaiya” whose beat and video were stuck in your head for months.
The “Oruvan oruvan mudhalali” which mesmerized you with Rahman’s genius joining hands with the superstar’s charisma.
I can go on and on, but you get the point. We are getting old too, but not yet old enough for a full-blown nostalgia circlejerk of the kind you see in Ilayaraja fanboys today. When that happens, 90s ARR would truly become classics, if they aren’t already.
Now its Ilayaraja’s time under the nostalgia spotlight. Just like it was MSV or AM Rajah for my father’s generation.
We need to keep this in mind and see beyond it when it comes to judging the artist’s talent objectively. Lets just not get carried away by this illusory side-effect of aging and thala-thukivechufy undeserving people.
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Ana
May 22, 2016
I know there are devout fans who would love him to continue composing and celebrate a “once in a blue moon” hit (only using the commercial success yardstick for a moment and not the technical aspects like sound etc.)…But somehow I like being a rational fan these days…So can Roger Federer, Ilayaraja and Rajnikanth hang up their boots pls and let us bask in their past glory more? To quote Vairamuthu’s lines which Rajni himself lip-synced—Indru vandha thalaimuraikku vaazhthu solli vaazhghave !! May be it is their passion to their field (not money for sure) that makes them go on. Sachin is a classic example of this
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Tambi Dude
May 22, 2016
“Well, I am in my twenties and grew up listening to ARR,”
No need to mention your age, it was obvious by your highly opinionated farts passed off as facts.
There is an oft-repeated belief that we always end up biased towards the music we have listened to growing up. Not sure. There are many music I discovered after I hit 40s and now I like it more than any music I grew up with. For example, I like Jazz and Rock (60s/70s) much more than the 70s/80s Hindi film music or even a good part of 80s tamil music. I also listen and appreciate Hindustani classical music a lot.
When you will reach my age, you will stop liking a music just because everyone else you know likes it.
Coming back to ARR, no doubt he has been immensely successful since 1990s, but to me his noise-to-signal ratio is very bad, more so if you take into consideration that he composes barely two / three movies a year. He is good at what he does best – make flavor of the month music, people like it for some time and then move on.
I don’t know whether it is only me, but I find myself in a situation where one fine day I simply stop caring about songs of a ARR film which I use to like a lot. It is as if my body is telling me “enough of this shit”. Thiruda-Thiruda is a good example. I don’t remember when was the last time I heard it and worse, I don’t even get the urge to listen to it. And this we are talking about what is regarded his best album. However I still like few songs of Duet.
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satishkvasan
May 22, 2016
For all those complaining of farts, Raja did an album called, “Nothing but Wind”! And if Raja’s success has to measured in ratios of good songs we remember, then I would suggest measuring number of movies that ran just on his music in the 80s!
And why are we still going going the “Iru Kodagal” style of making someone bigger by making someone else small.
There isn’t good music and bad music, there is only music that I like and that I don’t like.
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Srikanth
May 22, 2016
@Kadakumar : Beautifully written post. I tend to agree with you in that Ilayaraja’s “memorability quotient”, if you can call it that, is not as high as Rahman’s, because as you aptly described, he was not as selective as Rahman is. As a fellow twenty-something, I too can probably regard only a fraction of his ridiculously prolific work as true masterpieces.
But then, does that make him any less of a genius than Rahman? Sure, there are countless Ilayaraja songs that you may not listen to even if someone put a gun to your head whereas the same probably cannot be said for Rahman. It’s not how bad the useless songs are, but how insanely amazing the good ones are that make him a genius. The same goes for Rahman as well.
I’d like to make a comparison to assert my point. If we look at Naseeruddin Shah and Kamal Haasan’s career graphs in the 80s, it would be safe to say that Naseer’s output had a much better quality ratio. This would of course be because Kamal was extremely prolific in the 80s, and there are a fair number of his films from that period that I don’t even remember, since they were extremely bad. But does this make Naseer a better actor? Not really.Both of them are remembered for their best roles because this is where their true genius is visible. I would like to extend the same logic to the Raja-Rahman debate.
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Tambi Dude
May 22, 2016
@rangan : “one can see that Ilayaraja’s sound engineers let him down on several occasions.”
Why several ? More like “almost all”.
For long I thought it is because the technology was inferior in 70s and 80s. But when I listen to RDBurman’s songs of 70s and 80s, I find the the sound engineering much much better. My conclusion is that IR was careless in that department.
I was told by a friend who is into music, that in some of his songs of early 80s, if one listens very carefully, one can even pick traces of the sounds of Metronome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metronome). Oops. Blooper.
That is like shadow of the filming crew coming up in the movie.
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Venkat
May 22, 2016
@Kadakumar: Yes, we are in a mass market medium. So commercial success is very important. Understand one thing. Ilaiyaraja, did about 40 films a year over a 8-9 year period between 1979 and 1988/89. In this period, MSV continued to be active (MSV has done 3000 films according to wiki over 60 years which approximates to about 50 films a year. Even assuming a drop in output we could comfortably assume about 20-30 films a year). Gangai Amaren did about 170 films in that period. Shanker Ganesh did around 500 together. So your argument that Raja hogged the space is technically wrong. If you are going to talk about commercial viability, I will give you some anecdotal evidence here. There was a time in the 80s when if you were a director and you approached a producer, if you had Raja’s dates you were good to shoot. Essentially, demand for Raja’s time far outweighed supply at that point in time. (Even today, there are many directors who are dying to work with Raja. These days he refuses more than he accepts). To my knowledge to this date, this is unheard of. Raja stands the test of time because apart from being commercially viable he was a technical virtuoso. With regards to your claim around only 200 songs and a 5% success rate, there is a statistical list compiled by a few on albums that were declared hits based on audios being sold out, films doing 100 days etc. His success rate to this date is around 30-35%. That is a staggering number. Raja’s songs can be classified into smash hits, unknown gems and bummers. Into the smash hits column would go approximately 1300 songs (800 movies in the first twenty years which had an average success of 1.5 songs/album and about half a song thereafter for the next 200 albums) , into the unknown gems would go another 1000 songs on a minimum (to be called an unknown gem, it should at first be not very popular, have very interesting arrangements,interesting melodic ideas etc etc) the bummers would be about 1700 songs only.
Any parameter that you talk about, Raja stands out. Raja’s greatest quality is that whichever way you look at it, success ratio (which is around 30-35% even by conservative figures), technical brilliance, legacy, an auteur sound etc, all Indian MDs past and present pale. I am in my 20s too and I got in Raja only around 16-17 and it has been only a decade’s worth of listening to Raja and almost every other day I discover a new gem. So to think that those who swear by Raja are of a certain vintage is wrong. It is ok if you are in the Rahman stable. You like him more and so be it. But let us come to the table with our facts and figures in order
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Venkat
May 22, 2016
My claim around MSV doing 20-30 films a year is wrong. I just checked. Between 1976-89 he averages about 20 films but if you filter down to the 1980-89 it is about 16 films. Apologies for the error. The spirit of the argument however stands. MSV had an independent niche for himself. Suresh (who is an independent blogger and a Raja lover) wrote sometime back about how MSV rose to meet Raja’s domination. The larger point being Raja hogged nobody’s space.
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benny_l
May 22, 2016
Tambi Dude, it is well established fact that people’s musical taste stops evolving much beyond certain age (early 30’s). Once you guys stop propagating subjective opinions as objective facts, there will be much peace in discussions. Just agree that your taste is a product of time and move on instead of ascribing factual objectiveness to your own opinion.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 22, 2016
BR : Many Thanks for this astounding article on my favourite composer. You ve practically summed up the thoughts and sentiments of our generation especially when you talk about the preludes and the interludes takung centerstage. I always felt they were waiting in the wings ready to burst in with the force of a mugger in a dark alley.
And double thanks for mentioning my favourite azhagu aayiram. For my money Janaki s rendition took you on a tres glamorous journey. She practically created the echo of the recording studio with her vocal chords alone.
Luckily he didnt get into fusion music though he used instruments in an “inter disciplinary” way. For instance in Sundari Neeyum the foreground is totally carnatic and the background is totally western but the intersection is magical.
The last line of the article is the piece de resistance ” the more you dig the more you find”
Te Saluto Maestro of writing !
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Prakash Srinivasan (@prakashsrini)
May 22, 2016
BR, your best writeup on Ilaiyaraja. One of my hobbies for the last 10 years has been digging the unknown gems of IR and his MASSIVE body of work keeps giving gems and nobody could have put it better than this. Ilaiyaraja’s oeuvre is staggering and 1000 films is a monumental/herculean achievement. A striking aspect of his is his SPEED. He has composed the songs of movies in 30 mins (Chinna Thambi). Believe me, on an average we know only 60% (the usual popular hits like ilaiya nila, mannil indha and a thousand more) of his work and are discovering the remaining 40%. My sole obsession for the past years has been searching and discovering his unknown gems and what a satisfaction it is each time I come across one! Thanks to the internet and a loyal army of fans its much easier to get his gems…….its a lifelong mission. He is the closest that comes to perfection and the finesse in his tunes is breathtaking. His songs are so good that you can sing them without instruments and yet derive the same joy. Its not that he does not have weaknesses (synth arrangements in some songs, choice of singers) but in spite of this, he is a legend beyond compare. Whenever he succeeded it was nothing short of a masterpiece and that will make him immortal in the hearts of his fans like us, its enough for us for our lifetimes, this no other composer can boast of……….I listen to all composers but Ilaiyaraja will be the Don Bradman of Indian music.
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Naresh babu
May 22, 2016
Superb article. You just mentioned about the movie sairat songs, even I have same kind of feeling towards that. Especially the kind of composition and instrumentation in songs of latest movie sairat remembers be a kind of touch of ilayaraja’s music. Great article thank you. Lastly ilayaraja’s music is like ocean and you can relate any Indian kind of film music in any generation.
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Prasanna Ramachandran
May 22, 2016
brangan: Thanks. I’m happy for your ability to live in the Now 😛
Closure. That’s what I need. I grew an ear for music around the time Roja/Thiruda Thiruda came out, so Raja’s synth phase was not on my list of angst-inducing things (since I lacked the frame of reference of his earlier music). But having grown up with 90s Rahman, I still crave for “that.” I cannot yet put a finger on what “that” is exactly, so I suppose closure is a long way off 😦
Your point about not closing oneself off is well taken. I am certainly guilty of that.
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SRG PRABHU
May 22, 2016
I think we better ignore Kada kumar as he seems to be completely biased not only with having a total negative mindset against IR’s music but he is trying hard to compare ARR with IR…He even mentions the name of shankar ganesh who were nothing but copy cats, father of Deva….It is actually a problem to have a free mind, IR fans do not hesitate to listen to ARR or Imman…when they are good…Kada kumar likes Pizza and pasta and one day he will réalise its not like mum’s cooking….We listen to Hans zimmerman, john williams, jerry goldsmith ,James harner,Michael Kamen(Die hard) while having our love to IR’S Music…..
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brangan
May 22, 2016
I don’t get one thing. I completely respect and understand that music likes are subjective etc. But am a bit baffled by twentysomethings (as per their comments) making authoritative statements like “only X number of songs were hits” etc.
How do you know this?
For instance, when I listen to songs from earlier generations, I only go by like/dislike. But it’s impossible to say which songs received how much radioplay, etc. unless you were around at the time. A few albums, yes — there’s legend around it and your elders talk about how big a hit this song/album was etc. But there are many songs that you don’t know how popular or now they were — you only listen to them because you like them.
Like the Panathottam album. The blockbuster songs were Enna dhaan nadakkum, Pesuvadhu kiliya and Javvaadhu medai ittu. All great songs. But my favourite song from the album is Oru naal iravil, and not many people seem to know how it did then. But how does it matter all these years later — hit or not — as long as the song speaks to you?
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brangan
May 22, 2016
Tambi Dude: No, some of the stuff from his EMI days are really well engineered. Chittukuruvi is quite phenomenal.
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sachita
May 22, 2016
This is truly a subjective discussion. For example, I do think illayaraja’s hits probably atleast go to a thousand and definitely not a mere 100. I also realize the songs I would have dismissed like thendral thaan( compared to nee pathi naan pathi’s melody it wasnt great to me then) sound super good today.
And I dont get when people dismiss A R Rahman’s 2000s work. That has Rang de basanti – that sort of collaboration between a director and music director is sort of first i would think. Maniratnam brings out good stuff from Rahman. But Rakesh Mehra uses it in his film in a way even AR wouldnt have thought. Even Kalbali, after n number of listens I was still discovering new sounds in it like a treasure trove.
There is the wierdly experimental edhoma in Kangalal kaidhu sei – which I was sure nobody apart from me would have enjoyed but turns tons did. listening to that sort of experimental stuff was only possible because I had been part of his journey ( likes tons). Nobody watched the movie anyway and it wouldnt be mentioned today if not for this music.
90s is relatively simple stuff. but enjoyable nevertheless. There is karuthamma, even uzhavan. i also think this is where nostalgia works because I can recall exactly the first time I listened to this song. Again from movies one wouldnt remember if not for songs like Malargale exists in 90s too.
At 23/24 the year mark, he should have pretty much gone. but he is in a different phase with Maariyan. Thali pogathey still breaks internet.
The only music director who doesnt get the good deal he deserves is probably MSV. ( Mom told me it is MSV Mahadevan combo that is great but I am assuming that body of work isnt as extensive as MSV’s alone). he should be celebrated equal to IR in music. his name is just mentioned as part of the trinity.
One place illayaraja scores( by miles and miles) over the other two is ofcourse background music. I havent revisited any films in the repast to see if it still holds good for me. But Mouna raagam without back ground music wouldnt be Mouna raagam. Rahman used to sometime just play the song’s tune in the background and call it background score in 90s!
At the end of day, what sounds good to my ears is music. My life is richer if the initials behind the origin of music isnt the biggest deal for me in enjoying the music.( heck even deva has an aasai) If that is fart to you or worked for you only in the 90s – that is just you.
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Venkat
May 22, 2016
brangan: I was taking an average and I maybe horribly off the mark (but I have given strictly conservative estimates to quash the 5% success rate theory). But there are lists compiled that talk about Raja’s albums that give a hit/flop verdict based on the success of the movie, sale of audio cassettes etc.
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Tambi Dude
May 22, 2016
@benny_1:
“Tambi Dude, it is well established fact that people’s musical taste stops evolving much beyond certain age (early 30’s)”
Really!!!
Can you point out some authoritative scientific source which confirms this.
When I was in 20s film music use to be my whole world of music. Now it is an insignificant part of the music I listen to. So much for “well established”.
I discovered far more world music after 30s. Jazz/Hollywood soundtrack (like that of Thomas Newman, Hans Zimmer after I turned 40) and I love that music.
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Prasanna Ramachandran
May 23, 2016
Meanwhile, one YouTube user took a shot at re-mastering some of Raja’s hits. Some songs I hear a world of difference.
Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZZlPNmaN447aNA4TwNM1rA
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praneshp
May 23, 2016
Thanks Tambi Dude. Bosskey is an excellent interviewer.
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benny_l
May 23, 2016
@Tambi dude,
There are several studies with similar results. But people who write pages to establish that their hero is the greatest across ages or more special than others, should start realizing that the world doesn’t revolve around them. May be it is your subjective opinion you developed because of the time you were born in. Why else would there be “music-was-better-back-then” thoughts across all generations and all cultures. You are merely extending the argument across different era.
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sanjana
May 23, 2016
Every generation gets the music it deserves. The heroes it deserves. The age of innocence followed by the age of materialism
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rothrocks
May 23, 2016
@kadakumar: First off, thank you for believing a common response suffices for both myself and Tambidude. Now to burst your bubble. I was in school when ARR broke through and grew up with his music. BUT Ilayaraja was also active during the same period (as he is today). Sitting in Mumbai maybe I was less influenced by peer pressure but I came across songs like Velli Nilave through TV just the same way that I heard Yennai Kanavilaye Netrodu etc. So it was more of Ilayaraja AND Rahman for me rather than an either-or (by the by this binary naanga-neenga opposition is very much a Tamil fantasy and not everybody looks at things in such a black and white way). Further, I could reel off the name of a hot new band from Boston that’s releasing only its third album yet this month with Cuneiform Records, having self released its previous two efforts, so don’t go all “ye old fart” on me like an idiot. I have much more time for Sawaar Loon than the Supertramp-derived (70s classic rock, the irony!) Adiye (to be clear, the Kadal Adiye 😉 ) and that is something you will have to live with, wham, bham, thank you.
Now for a ‘fact’ check:
“Ilayaraja gave some 6000 songs of which you might relish hardly a hundred or two hundred at most.” – Pretty sure it’s well over that. I stopped keeping track when I discovered 80s songs like Kanavil Midhakkum or Uruguthey for the first time only a couple of years back. There’s seemingly no point in keeping count. I am just in for the ride.
“most of his music was crappy fillers nobody cared about then,” If so, what explains directors and producers committing money to crap films based on his name? That a uber-Mike Mohan azhgai film like Idhaya Kovil ran a 100 days in the BO due at least in part to IR’s songs. I have actually seen this utter nonsense Rama Raj film Pongi Varum Kaveri (don’t ask me why). I don’t remember anything about the film but I do remember and still love the track Velli Kolusu Mani. The question is what do YOU really know about IR’s music anyway? Why don’t you speak for yourself instead of presuming to speak on behalf of all ‘fanboys’ and telling us what we should do?
“But you can’t name Ilayaraja albums you didn’t like” – Wrong again, more ass-umptions. I really don’t care much for Uzhaipaali, Kannukul Nilavu, Manasellam, Athu Oru Kanakaalam to name just a few. Solla Marandha Kadhai might have passed muster had he not made Bhava sing Yedhedho. Rasaiya was pretty mediocre too. Most of these albums I named have at least song I don’t mind (if not like outright) but overall I don’t like these albums. If you take out Kurangu Kaiyil Maalai, I don’t like Mumbai Xpress either for that matter. So actually I am pretty selective. I still have no problem finding more than enough IR albums to like. 😉
You might say that Kadhalan, etc. were simply zeitgeists, and aren’t timeless classics. – I didn’t say THAT. FWIW I still like the Kadhalan soundtrack. I only said I don’t care much for Lovebirds. The point I am making is a song like Samba Samba was more appealing to me at that time because it captured a certain time and place. Today I have no inclination to return to that track, it has nothing new to offer for me anymore, zilch repeat value. It is not I who have said for the first time that Rahman is very much clued into the film situation and gears the song such that it suits the picturisation. Rahman fans have crowed since the beginning of time that this is his strength and what differentiates him from Raja. Perhaps, but that then may explain why the appeal of the song fades for me after the film gets old. The songs where he was afforded enough space to express himself remain. I didn’t like Indira very much but I do love Thoda Thoda Malaranthathenna.
“The iconic “Mustafa Mustafa” that your older cousins considered an anthem, making you yearn to grow up and be cool like them- with bikes and cigarettes.” – See, this is the point. I don’t listen to music in this way. For me, it is something very individual and personal. I don’t really care who considers what an anthem; it has to appeal to my tastes. These days, that basically means the song has to grab me by the collar. I can’t help it. Between work, writing and playing tennis I don’t have all the time in the world for music. Besides there’s a surfeit of music today with sadly underpaid musicians so I pick and choose what works for me.
“Now its Ilayaraja’s time under the nostalgia spotlight” – In your opinion. He did an excellent album in Telugu last year. I am more than happy to listen. He has delivered at least one good/great/outstanding album per year (for my tastes) for the last four years back to back. Given his age at the moment, I am not complaining.
“We need to quantify the merits or demerits of a song in someway- say by its popularity- based on casette sales, its radio plays, its youtube views and likes,…” – Quantifying music by any parameter is pure nonsense, firstly. Secondly, if we strictly followed your approach, we would come to the horrifying conclusion that Main Mila Tu Mili is better than 99% of Madan Mohan’s work. For those who do not know, I proudly present Main Mila Tu Mili:
Madan Mohan is a good example of how even a film music director’s work can be subsequently reassessed and earn more popularity than even in the composer’s lifetime. MM’s songs continue to be played regularly on retro film stations along side those of his far more successful contemporaries like Shankar Jaikishen and S D Burman. Many of the films he worked for though have been long forgotten. I am afraid your criteria are pretty limiting. However, as other IR fans have pointed, he was wildly successful in the 80s running up to around 1993 even by those criteria. The fact that they may or may not resonate with you has no bearing on the matter.
Your hit rate criterion is misleading. IR and Rahman have used different approaches to achieve success. A hyena rarely hunts but when it does, it tastes success by working in a group. A tiger fails in many of it chases but single handedly brings down bigger prey than a hyena. It would be deluded to suggest either IR or Rahman should have worked more like the way the other did. They chose the approach that worked/works best for them. Far be it for armchair critics to tell them to be more or less selective.
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rothrocks
May 23, 2016
But somehow I like being a rational fan these days…So can Roger Federer, Ilayaraja and Rajnikanth hang up their boots pls and let us bask in their past glory more? – Pl consider a telling – and chilling – stat from the last Australian Open final. Zero net approach points in the entire first set between Djokovic and Murray. So careful what you wish. Anyway, the end is nigh now though Federer claims he is missing RG to prolong his career. Writing was on the wall when he signed on Ljubicic. 😦
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Sifter
May 23, 2016
When it is about a piece about IR, the comments dissolves into comparisons with ARR and the whole point of discussion around that or able to find other gems gets lost. Why does it have to be like that…if you like IR, you can’t like ARR or vice versa. It all comes down to what is pleasing to your ears, that’s it. There is no need to put down someone to show someone else in glowing light.
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rothrocks
May 23, 2016
@ Sifter: For once you can’t even blame the IR fans. For once everybody was prepared to dwell only on IR’s music instead of the usual odd carping post which complains about Rahman getting overrated and IR being the true genius. But seemingly vayathuyerichal ku allave illai. We cannot even celebrate IR’s music in peace without their being know it alls telling us to snap out of nostalgia and all that.
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Raj Balakrishnan
May 23, 2016
Thanks for this lovely article. Ilaiyaraja is the king, no one evening comes close. His late 70s and 80s numbers are still evergreen, you just don’t go tired of them. Even after his prime he composed some great music like Veera in the early 90s, Friends, Pithamagan in the noughties and Nee thane en pon vasantham recently, to name a few. Since people have brought Rahman into the conversation, he did produce some great work in the 90s but was not as prolific as Raja was a decade earlier. And I don’t care for any of his noughties albums other than Alaipayuthey.
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Vijay
May 23, 2016
Thanks for the article. Being a Kannadiga where IR started his career his work simply stands out.. would like to know more about his early days in Tamil and start collecting his work.
His Pallavi Anu Pallavi, Geetha and this track i am sharing.
If someone can give me a link or good playlist so I can start collecting his tracks..
Thanks again..
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Rahini David
May 23, 2016
KadaKumar: Ilayaraja gave some 6000 songs, of which you might relish hardly a hundred or two hundred at most. Be honest.
Ok, I will be honest. I had 2000 tamil songs in my tablet a couple of years back and I made a playlist called “Tamil – Never Played”. I will listen to the song fully and if I don’t have paitence enough to listen to it fully, I will delete it. I went though the entire collection like this. Most of Harris’ songs and a huge chunk of Yuvan’s songs have left my collection. Quite a number of ARR does stay put but not THAT many. Rangeela was filtered out. Karagatakaran and Chinna Thambi have stayed put. All of them from Balu Mahendra’s movies are with me. I can’t dream of letting even one go. That is my taste and I currently have 600+ IR songs and about 300+ ARR songs. There is only criteria. I should like the songs I collect. ALL of the B&W hits have survived as they were downloaded individually and not imported from MP3 CDs.
100 or 200 at most? Are you kidding? There are several I want to get into my collection. I still don’t have many IR songs I know and like. “Thenpaandi Thamilea” is still something I don’t have.
And,
The “Pettai rap” whose lyrics you struggled to mug up and recite together with friends between classes.
Pettai rap is not a classic across all ages. It is your own nostalgia that makes you rate it higher than a current teenager would. We had the song “Vanitha Mani” that just begged to be learnt by-heart. “Mannil Intha Kaathal Indri” too. The opening parts of Raja Kaiya vecha (Aboorva Sagotharargal) made us want to learn it by heart too. You may not have said “Innum kooda kizhiyum kaathu thadukkum” as a comeback. I have. You may have retorted to “STOP IT !!!” with “Yeva ava !?!” more often.
The pleasant “Athangara Marame” that kept playing on oliyum-oliyum on Doordarshan and momentarily took you to virgin pastures and fantasies of a morapponnu.
It is not a patch on “Pothi vecha malligai mottu” or “Maancholai kilithaano” and ARR never did as much justice to rural songs as IR did. No one ever did as much justice as IR. I can not imagine Karagatakaran with anyone else’s music. Sangamam also had a folk dancer as a protogonist. Awesome sound track. I am not denying it. The lyrics are stupendously good in all of Sangamam’s songs. However it is not as earthy as the songs deserve to be. It is not a “Shenbagamea” or “Eh Rasathi Rosa poo”
I know these songs are boring to the current generation. But the current generation does bother to remix “Kadhal Vaibogamea” etc. Even the un remixed versions of these songs are still good enough for me. I don’t have to wonder ‘what The Rock is cooking’ to enjoy that song. I don’t mind what The Rock cooks, but I am not super excited by it either.
We are getting old too, but not yet old enough for a full-blown nostalgia circlejerk of the kind you see in Ilayaraja fanboys today.
You will. And you wouldn’t know what hit you. 😀
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Rahini David
May 23, 2016
BTW, I was reading the comment section of a Lady Gaga song the other day and someone had said “Good old times, I was still a child when I saw this” another commenter had commented “If you saw Lady Gaga when you were a child, you are still a child” 😀
Here is someone who likes 90s songs without being mighty snooty about it.
https://anusrini20.wordpress.com/2015/12/20/top-3/
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Tambi Dude
May 23, 2016
“After sixty years of research, it’s conventional wisdom: as people get older, they stop keeping up with popular music. Whether the demands of parenthood and careers mean devoting less time to pop culture, or just because they’ve succumbed to good old-fashioned taste freeze, music fans beyond a certain age seem to reach a point where their tastes have “matured”.”
A study conducted by Spotify. So this is the best scientific study you could come up with. !!!!
Well here is something shocking for you. When it comes to movies I am very well into “current pop hits” of Bollywood and have no problem admitting that movies in the last decade are vastly superior to that of 70s and 80s. Today I cringe watching those movies.
Stop making an ass of yourself by these kind of generalization. My goodness. A criticism of ARR is taken as a criticism of entire current music. How juvenile. I do like SEL’s music a lot. And I also consider ARR to be the best 90s onwards.
There is another point. I grew up listing to 70s and 80s. But I consider HFM of 50s and 60s to be superior to that of 70s. Today I hardly listen to them, but when I do , it gives me the happiness no other film music gives.
It is the nature of film music that current hits always take majority of mind share. That does not mean that those who discover and like music other than the current hits are old-farts or have gone senile prematurely.
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Tambi Dude
May 23, 2016
BTW post 1992 I hardly care for IR’s songs. I lost interest in IR after 1988 (Agninakshatram was his last great movie), even though there were few songs here and there which I use to like.
That being said, I think he was outstanding in the BGM of Heyram and even the songs of Heyram were good (awesome piano in Nee Partha) and beautiful melody in Isayil THodanguthama. I love Mumbai Express and NEP songs.
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vigneswaran
May 23, 2016
Another wonderful article on Illaiyaraja. I love BR’s brilliant analysis and also the fact that he brought up the not so often played song of the Maestro
However, BR did not cover all genres that Raja excelled in… especially on carnatic based songs … like from ” Sindhu Bairavi ‘
I also believe BR was way of mark when he said Illayaraja was lazy in choosing vocalists !!!
Incredible…I feel Raja gave topmost importance to vocals….That is why his is the last of the tamil songs where we can actually hear the lyrics clearly!
Atrocious vocals???? KJ Yesudas, S Janaki, SPB, Lata Mangeshkar, Asha Bhonsle, Chitra…..
even Balamurali Krishna…. ( BR, you have to seriously apologize to these giants )
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 23, 2016
Kadakumar :
(i wish I had the applaud whatsapp smiley here :):)) To say that Ilayaraja produced a gem here and there amidst a flood of mediocrity is sheer heresy.
Having said that, I LOVE the way you’ve marshaled your arguments – the only line missing in the end was “Your Honour ……The Defense Rests”
Brilliant ! (like Ilayaraja :):)
Have you considered teaching Critical Thinking and Reasoning in one of these new (and super costly) universities that are cropping up which claim to offer a Liberal arts education within India and at Indian prices ?
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Naveen
May 23, 2016
i grew up in 80s but i discovered MSV, KVM, RDB, Khayyam etc much later and still could recognise their genius. i have found some of GV Prakash and Harris very enjoyable too. but the more and more of other music i am exposed too, IR stands tall and apart. like he build the Everest and not climbed an existing peak. he is the mountain and the peak. there are couple of great of IR’s music in Kannada, which i have not heard redone in telugu or tamil
etc.
all musicians are great creators. some are greater than the others. a thing of beauty is joy forever.real beauty will stand the test for time. we are a bunch of small drops in the ocean of the internet cloud. lets enjoy the music
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Rahini David
May 23, 2016
BR: Regarding Whether the demands of parenthood and careers mean devoting less time to pop culture
It appears that the original comment that Tambi Dude is quoting is missing. Can you check if you accidentally clicked the “Unapprove” link/button?
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brangan
May 23, 2016
Rahini David: Nope.
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Anuja Chandramouli
May 23, 2016
The Ilayaraja era transforms music lovers into archaeologists. The more you dig, the more you find.
That sums it up for me perfectly. I adore digging around through his stuff and it is totally worth it when you hit pay dirt. For instance everybody knows the Ninaivo oru Paravai track from Sigappu Rojakal. Imagine my joy on discovering Indha Minminiku kannil oru minnal from the same album! Bliss!! Fantastic article on the great man. And yeah, I am not a fan of 90s Raja either but something like Pithamagan comes along and I tend to forgive him for his sins!
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KadaKumar
May 23, 2016
To all the retards who claim that I am stating opinions as facts. Of course, what I write is my opinion. Just like what you write is your opinion. Same with brangan. How can a song being good or bad be a fact? When did I claim to be writing an encyclopedia here? Just like you may say a song is good, I say its mediocre. Why does my opinion alone have to come with a disclaimer stating that it is only an opinion, while fanboys can go all medieval and authoritatively decry that IR is a genius? My criticism of his music is automatically “vayatherichal” and hatred, but gushing over the same is true appreciation? Right. Who’s the butthurt one here?
I was expecting abuses and ad hominem attacks for my contrarian opinion by rabid IR fanatics. After all, Ilayaraja is “cool” right now, even among the younger ones who go all retro. We keep seeing gratuitous references to Ilayaraja music in movies these days (sort of like the annoying references to thala in many movies). He is sort of an icon of simpler times. Pre-liberalization, doordarshan, premier padmini, vayalum vazhvum, transistor radio sets and the like. Its comforting in some sense. For some people I suppose. And they tend to go overboard.
All I said was this, and I maintain this: IR has produced some wonderful timeless gems, no doubt. But most of his work was unimpressive and crap. We don’t notice the crap, or we forget the crap. While we remember and celebrate the classics. Just don’t jump from a song being amazing to the composer being a genius.
Virat Kohli is hailed as a great player because he’s consistent. If a cricketer smashes a double century once in 20-30 odd matches, but fails miserably in all other matches, he is not considered a good player, even if you may fondly remember those wonderful double centuries.
As to how IR could have maintained his monopoly if my claim of overall mediocrity is true, that makes for a different discussion. A contentious, but plausible, one that would go into IR’s personal traits and kisu-kisu about how he’d actively thwart competitors and resort to manipulation and blackmail with directors, singers and producers to sustain his monopoly. Like blacklisting a whole team if the director sought a new musician. Once established to an extent, he could get away with such blackmail because not everybody was willing to take risks, and just went with the status quo. It took Mani Ratnam’s conviction and the force of AR Rahman’s raw genius to finally shatter that monopoly and toss him to the sideline for good. One from which he never recovered.
I mean, even now he smacks of arrogance, as if music is his personal property. One would expect age to mellow him and make him more zen, and as someone else mentioned “vandha thalaimurai ku vazhthu solli”-fy, but his ego keeps him trapped in the delusion of his own eternal greatness and the bitterness against new talents who overshadowed him and made him a relic of the 80s. Wouldn’t be surprising if 1992 and Roja continue to haunt him in his sleep.
I know I’ll be blasted for bringing his personality into this discussion, and I’ll stop. I just brought it up because it can possibly explain how he thrived for so long with essentially no competition.
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brangan
May 23, 2016
KadaKumar: It looked like you were stating facts, hence my comment.
But regardless of that disagreement, let me tell you that you write beautifully. Not just in terms of language but also structure and flow.
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benny_l
May 23, 2016
@Tambi Dude, It is not a research conducted “by” spotify, it was conducted “on” spotify data. This generic disregard for the nuances is a running theme in your replies so far. And I just shared the study I last remembered reading. There are countless other scientific studies on demographics of music taste and they are fairly conclusive in their findings. Examples that you give of yourself doesn’t change a thing. I too have a musical taste that leans towards time period that precedes me, but given a choice between IR & ARR, I will always gravitate towards the later. Among their poorer songs, ARR’s songs are much more tolerable to me than the labored elaborate interludes of IR. I attribute it to my personal sensibilities, shaped by the era in which I grew up, rather than deluding myself that I have the perfect taste in music and hit the jackpot of being born in the best era for music.
And where have I implied that there is criticism of entire current music? The gist of my replies so far is that people lean towards music of their age and not that people are hostile to music of different time period. There is a difference to both, if you can’t catch the nuance there is no hope in discussing further. I am sure one of us is making an ass of ourselves.
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benny_l
May 23, 2016
@Rahini David, that comment is from the link I shared. Here it is:
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 23, 2016
Kadakumar :
I’m as much a fan of your writing as I’m a fan of Ilayaraja’s music.
And its not as if you’re the only one to launch into a diatribe.
My “batch” went through the phase of launching diatribes against IR at the height of his output JUST prior to ROJA’s release.
We talked as much about his “head weight” (literal translation from Tamil) as we did about his music but there was simply no one in sight
I remember like yesterday an interview with IR in The Hindu wherein the interviewer referred to an incident where Hari Prasad Chaurasia on listening to one of his albums reportedly said “You must bless me Raja” and IR’s reply to that was (no hearsay here – I can subpoena The Hindu for this) “some people do such things for publicity”.
So, we’re as aware of his shortcomings as you are (and for that matter any genius’ shortcomings).
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Rm
May 23, 2016
My few cents:
I find it very unfortunate that people are still quantifying Raja’s music based on his hits, misses or how popular or “universally” appealing he is (was) at a time when people out there are today raving about how in the ninth’s hell he has brought about two distinct emotions using the same ragam (Gowri Manohari) in two distinct compostions “Anbe Vaa Arugile” and “Muthamizh Kaviye Varuga”.This is thesis material.
You can reject a “Mozart I love you” as a ironical influence, but if the crescendo of violins going on a roller coaster of emotions in “Singing self” does not reveal to you the genius of this composer, I don’t know what else will. Forget the violins, listen to the flute notes that overwhelmed Chaurasia who had initially thought they were plain and simple.
I like ARR, I love his ‘Thamizha Thamizha’. It does something to me every time I listen to it. But it does not bother me a bit that Raja does not have the kind of appeal ARR has in terms of “universal” fan following. There has been an increasing western influence in Rahman’s composition. He is seeking this appeal going the western way. The utterly forgettable music in the movie ‘I’ stands proof of this. And don’t even get me started on the synthetic piece of crap that is ‘Thalli Pogathey..’ .
Illayaraja’s craftsmanship is a class apart, that would any day transcend the bits and pieces of machine generated music sewn together in the most sophisticated fashion ever..
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Tambi Dude
May 23, 2016
@ragini: The comment I quoted is the first paragraph of the following link quoted by Benny.
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KadaKumar
May 23, 2016
@brangan
blushes Thanks for the compliment. Its big coming from someone who writes so beautifully and evocatively. I read your reviews and articles just for the writing form, more than the content.
That apart, I confess that many of the numbers I used, I pulled out of my ass, if that wasn’t already obvious enough. I would love to see some numbers on this though. A song might move you in a deep way and touch your soul and stuff, but that says more about you than the song. However, if that song does the same to a significant number of people, then we are getting somewhere.
Maybe a database of all Ilayaraja songs with their respective parameters-views, likes, dislikes, ratings, radio plays, cassette sales, etc. We can then extract useful information describing his success rate, evolution, ascent/decline, resurgence, and a lot more. I know that purists might frown at such a quantification, but its because we don’t have ready access to such data that the discussion becomes more subjective than it needs to be.
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complicateur
May 23, 2016
Well since we’re all talking facts, logic and hyperbole why miss out on some math? Integral f(x) dx where f(x) is a function of musical excellence over time (x) is the probably highest for Ilaiyaraja where the consideration set is all music directors to have ever composed in Indian film. That the limits of this integral are approaching is extremely worrisome for us fans.
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Raj
May 23, 2016
Mom generally overfeeds and keeps feeding till you cry. Hence you couldn’t appreciate the suvai’s of all the food she gives nor do you remember all the food you ate. Then you decide to eat food from restaurants-and they seem to be consistent in taste, amazing varieties, lot of options and gives you a feel you can eat there everyday. However, after 2 days you realize that you cannot take it anymore and you come back home for Mom’s food.
Now IR is like Mom feeding- he knows what we need according to our mood- provides that [ the only complaint is he overfeeds]. We don’t even appreciate the nuances in Mom’s cooking till your roommate cooks for you. That is the beauty of Raja– he can cook folk, western, carnatic all by themselves and also he is a master of Kootansooru [mix of all].
While any restaurant can be good at one thing- South Indian special/Continental/Indo-Chinese but only Mom can provide food for all in a family – Thatha[Grandfather] to Peran[Grandkids] and still satisfy one and all.So please go out and enjoy some restaurant food but you have to return to Mom for treatment – yes she provides that too in her food…
If MJ is King of POP – Raja is MOM of Music…
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sanjana
May 23, 2016
Some understanding and some timely appreciation can mellow the seemingly toughest.
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Raj
May 23, 2016
“Maybe a database of all Ilayaraja songs with their respective parameters-views, likes, dislikes, ratings, radio plays, cassette sales, etc. We can then extract useful information describing his success rate, evolution, ascent/decline, resurgence, and a lot more”
Probably the worst way to look at one’s success. The main point is Raja doesn’t need such analysis- his longevity – 40 years in the music industry- still highly popular amongst masses inspite of his arrogant/condescending speeches are evidence that people love his music and ready to forget the insults he throws on you. He commands that kind of respect through his music and those parameters are hard to quantify.
How can you quantify the greatness of bringing folk music into mainstream cinema [which was obsessed with western and Hindi classical]. Judging someone’s popularity through social media tweets and likes just goes to show that you are looking at someone’s popularity only in the elite urban society.
Raja’s true popularity lies within the villages/farmers- Raja’s songs are the only soothing thing in an otherwise unyielding life of a Farmer.
“Patti Thotti ellam perabalam” would only appeal to Raja….
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sanjana
May 23, 2016
One thing for sure. The adulation Raja commands is phenomenal. There is nothing mediocre about it. It is pure and unadulterated.
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nellaivel (@vel1972)
May 23, 2016
Thanks Baddy! It was wonderful writing on Raja music, in fact i heard his music first in Priya or sivapu rojakkal.. Still i could remember the his background score he did for the film sivapu rojakkal that too in stereo which was new then with famous scene where cat screams.
For me a young kid it was very magical which i never heard off, during that period in all over the TN people use to hear hindi songs especially aradhana & others. Raja made tamil people to hear our music. He blended all forms of music be folk, karnatic, western classical jazz which was very perfect.
Songs which are still close to my heart are songs of jhonny & panner pusphangal. His fab combination with directors of his times like Mahendran, Balu Mahendra, Bhagiyaraj Mani ratnam along with valli & variamuthu is stuff of legends. These directors used raja very well that why raja transcends time because almost all his songs written to a situation of the film. It represented all human emotions and his song had divinity and soul.
His singers like SPB, Yesudas Janaki, Jency, Chitra, Uma ramanan, and swarna latha perfectly understood his thoughts and delivered gems which no can deny list includes susheela, vani jayaram jayachandran as well.
As raja’s fan i hear music for the melody and tune. After coming to hard day’s work it should relieve your tension, in such case at any time Raja is the best. Even after more than three decades it provides immense pleasure in hearing his songs, for me sounds are secondary and it should be soulful and divine.
There is off repeated criticism is that raja did not introduce new singers, that be the case how much present singers have reached heights of SPB . Now with one song new young singers think they have achieved some thing great. Current crop of singers do not last long fade like a twilight. Except for few like karthick haricharan & Chinamayi there is no new talent on sight in tamil films and forget about having talents like Shreya Ghosal.
Finally i need to say his achievements cant be undermined and one of rare gems to appear in India. I also do not go in to arguments with young Rahman fans in this blog who wants to prove that ARR greater than Raja, which i dont want to entertain because i am hearing this for past 25 years.
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Raj
May 23, 2016
To all doing the analysis on music- a simple rehash of Kamal’s advice would help you in a long way
“Isaiya Aanubaavikanum Aaaraya Kudathu”– [Enjoy the experience rather than analyzing it]
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nellaivel (@vel1972)
May 23, 2016
In addition to my earlier thoughts i like to add that he made music accessible to every body through out length and breath of TN which was very simple, catchy. To his credit he made every tamil family to buy tape recorder and hear his songs which was very phenomenal achievement for his music.
Sindhu bharavi was his pinnacle in my view for first time he made carnatic music so accessible to common man. Even if the masses do not understand nuances of carnatic music still he made them to appreciate it.
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raaga_suresh
May 23, 2016
Just to get some objectivity into the numbers since one poster has claimed that Raja has may, just maybe, 100 hits, here is a youtube compilation I made of ‘certified’ hits in Tamil alone. (Some videos have been deleted in youtube). I have used strict criteria and the number (not taking into account this year) comes upto 929. And this doesn’t take into account the Malayalam, Telugu, Kannada and Hindi from which you can easily derive another 400 to 500 certified hits. Here are the first 100 numbers (this is almost chronological). You can find the others on the left side menu.
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rothrocks
May 23, 2016
“To all the retards who claim that I am stating opinions as facts”.
Unnecessary invective aside, I draw your attention to your own words here,
“At some level all art if subjective blah blah. If that is the level of discourse, then any further discussion is pointless. We need to quantify the merits or demerits of a song in someway” – Pray what exactly are you up to? Oh wait, I will explain, basically you have zero respect for our opinion because the opinions of a Raja fanboy don’t count while you somehow expect us all to genuflect to yours. Because having conjoined us all with your grand we, you proceeded to define your own set of criteria to ‘quantify’ the merits or demerits of a song. Again, no such thing as quantification of musical merit exists. That a song was not a hit does not make it a bad song and that a song was a hit does not make it a good song either. Bach was not appreciated in his lifetime. Probably took a hundred years or more after his death before the full import of his work came to be appreciated and for his subsequent canonization. If it can happen in classical music with trained ears doing the evaluation, it can most certainly happen in film music. I have even given an example – non IR – of how a film composer’s music was reassessed posthumously. You have not responded to that. You don’t respond to anything at all. No, sire, I suppose you believe conversation is best conducted with a one way flow of diatribe. And how convenient to not have to respond to counter arguments that prick your beautiful little theory!
“while fanboys can go all medieval and authoritatively decry that IR is a genius?” – How is this any different from what you are doing w.r.t A R Rahman. This is what you wrote: “It took Mani Ratnam’s conviction and the force of AR Rahman’s raw genius”. So? Once again Mr kadakumar reserves the right to call his favourite composer a genius while sneering left, right and center at those who use that epithet for IR? Mirror, mirror on the wall, have you looked into it ever at all?
” If a cricketer smashes a double century once in 20-30 odd matches, but fails miserably in all other matches, he is not considered a good player” – Um, does the name of Brian Charles Lara ring a bell? Actually a double century every 20-30 odd matches would be an astounding rate of success which even Lara did not touch. I see your facile and entirely untested assumptions extend to the world of sport as well.
“I was expecting abuses and ad hominem attacks for my contrarian opinion” – Wait a sec, it’s not the fact of your opinion being contrarian that’s a problem, let’s get that straight. It’s that your tone is terribly and laughably condescending and that you want to impose your opinions straight down everybody’s throat. My first response to you was reasonable (and also entirely in the subjectivist mould only) and you responded with a bunch of asinine assumptions. That is typical of how you have handled the whole thing; screaming and protesting disproportionate to the level of disagreement you have actually faced. It only shows one thing: you don’t know how to handle disagreement, how to handle a different view. Get your head out of the sand FFS and FGS stop screaming. It doesn’t wash. If you take on an overly passive-aggressive posture from the beginning of a debate then you can’t protest the outcomes. I actually do think IR is arrogant to some degree but Rahman is as well and so is Federer and so is Djokovic. These folks have achieved something; I am personally interested only in their achievement and not their character certificate, well at least as long as they didn’t murder somebody or something like that.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 23, 2016
rothrocks : Looks like you were keeping a helluva lot in reserve in your arsenal.
“Knock a man down and he will attain a level of indignation AND eloquence equivalent to a modern day Cicero” (Dale Carnegie)
Game, Set and Match !
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 24, 2016
A very informative article. Haven’t come across most of these songs. Hope a post dedicated to his background scores comes out in the near future!
Re “utterly ordinary vocalists”: When you say that just below the “Megam Kottattum” video, it gives me an impression that you probably listened to Kamal’s rendition. 🙂 IR gave ample (of course, by today’s standards) opportunities to lesser known, yet wonderful voices like Uma Ramanan and Minmini.
“Naguva Nayana” (from PAP) and “Jotheyalli” (from Geetha) are timeless classics in Kannada – they are still played in every nook and corner of Bangalore.
And it isn’t just about a Tamil composer like D Imman, whose songs sound like a devotee’s homage to his deity.
Deva was doing it twenty years ago (occasionally though)!
ARR never did as much justice to rural songs as IR did.
Rahini David: That’s true to some extent, but I’m surprised that you quote a song from Kizhakku Cheemaiyile to prove this point. ARR did full justice to the album. Go, listen to “Maanooththu Manthaiyile”, “Thenkizhakku Cheemayile” and Kathaazhan Kaattu Vazhi” for 5-6 times, you’ll change your views. 🙂
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vatsa
May 24, 2016
BR,
Great article. Greatness of IR is his experimentation without compromise which sometimes resulted in some unpleasant (in the popular music sense) music but it achieved great levels when it did. Although he showed us various facets of SPB, KJY, Janaki, Chitra and Malaysia Vasudevan (even Mano and Uma Ramanan), he had a fair share of songs which were ruined by voice (Jency, Radhika and some songs his own) and recording. If IR can be blamed, it should be for his perceived lack of interest in making sure the end product after recording.This could be because of IR’s prolificity and penchant for musical experimentation (which gave us great songs as well) which put this aspect to the back burner. Nevertheless, his compositions have withstood time (300+ classics) and the compositional quality of good and average songs (which probably ranges around 700) will jump to the next level if recording is polished or re-recorded (as you mentioned).
KadaKumar,
It is pretty hard to compare hits of different generations especially some of the popular hits which were a rage at that time could just be short lived. IR gave fair share of those as well when he was numero uno (commercially). Also, records sold is also unscientific, because 80s had less disposable income. However, great IR was, my dad will not buy me a audio cassette (and many households could not even buy tape recorders). Does this mean I am not even a statistic because of my family’s economic status? Also, many went to movies to listen to songs those days (similar to watching music videos). If youtube hits are a measure, then MSV will be worse than Harris (which he clearly is not). If these are the parameters for measuring genius, then it will be a complex model, with a lot of magic parameters that cannot be calibrated!
The only thing that we can come up with (if at all), is possible parameters that made them who they are. For instance, take IR’s listenable songs rate, it could be to do with tools available and style.
Recording Technique:
ARR, as many observed builds a song, records variations and picks the right one to enrich his songs. The possibility of it being good at least sound wise is taken care of. Whether it is musically good or adored by the mass is another question. At least it is not jarring.
IR’s world started prior to these days where it was single track to multi-track etc. It is costly to record given the Tamil market is small, flaws are tolerated and emphasis was on perfection from the performer. IR could be blamed for not evolving recording-wise (i.e., making sure what he conceived is communicated sonically) for most of his post-90s output. Some good songs (in my opinion) in 70s, 80s, 90s and even 00’s got lost this way.
Musical Technique:
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-features/tp-fridayreview/how-to-name-it/article8622113.ece
IR’s own observation (see link above) that he experiments in quite a few films and some of those techniques are used in a spontaneous way by him. This could be the reason for good number of his songs that can be skipped (i.e., failed attempts). In ARR’s case, he makes sure he limits his failed attempts by spending a lot of time polishing his numbers.
Apart from this, musically, ARR’s lack of prolificity could be because of the answer to Amirtraj’s question to ARR @9:00:
One of the many differences between ARR and IR in terms musically.
On a lighter note, you said that Maniratnam identified ARR’s “raw genius”. If that was one measure, he invariably mentions IR as a genius with awe every time he is asked a question about IR – like @13:00 in the below video:
Obviously, the above is from somebody from a director’s viewpoint and not a composer’s view point or a musician’s view point.
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Krishna Raj
May 24, 2016
If IR had only 5% of his songs that were good, how could he have gotten the opportunities to score for 1,000 films. They may have given him the benefit of doubt in 100 films in addition to the hundred that was good but not 1,000 films over 40 years.
In fact, the person who claims that only 5% of his songs was good also claims that he was dominant and sans any competition in the 80s. To me those two things are oxymoronic. You cannot have such meagre quality output and be dominant against the competition. And as the person who claimed the 5% fallacy states that it is not like IR did not have detractors. As history has shown he was surrounded by ungrateful, envious people and a slighted media ready to knock him off his pedestal. So if only 5% of his songs were good, they would happily finished him off much earlier.
I can understand that being in the 20s, awareness of the depth and breadth of his music may be low but would have expected a much higher level of logic and reasoning from a person in the 20s.
I had wanted to make a list of all the songs that were great but there were so many that I dont have the time. But as I was going through this exercise starting from 1976, in just his first 5 years I could count 50+ tamil movies in which all the songs were very good thrashing the 5% yardmark in just the first five years without even counting the rest of his contributions.
Neither me nor the person who had commented to the low % of quality output IR do not know each other and don’t require each one’s validation of the quality of the output of their favorite music directors output. The yardstick for those who would consider haire haire hairappa and oru kudam sulight type of songs to be good is never going to match mine. I could only sympathize for the person for not being able to get the pleasure that I derive from IR’s music.
IR’s work is beyond the numbers. The technical brilliance behind the compositions in terms of the orchestration and as many have commented here and elsewhere about the soul or jeevan of IR’s songs (decried by the claimant by just subjective blabber from IR’s hardcore fans) are the things that differentiate IR.
From my perspective, the opinions that matter to me are those from the likes of Shri. T V Gopalakrishnan, the eminent carnatic guru and mridangam vidwan, who comes from a family of eminent musicians, who has been a Guru to both IR and Rahman, when he states that he has studied various forms of music over the last 200 years and has not seen a musician like IR. He further states that IR knows where the Jeevan is in each raaga and why they stand out compared to the others who also compose in that Raaga. Or Semmangudi – one of the seniormost, eminent and respected musician, who considered IR as a genius.
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Krishna Raj
May 24, 2016
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KadaKumar
May 24, 2016
@rothrocks
I think I have pretty much said all I wanted to say. With sufficient caveats, disclaimers and qualifications so as to not oversimplify matters. Feel free to prefix every line of what I said with an “in my opinion…” if that makes you feel better (btw, I’d like to know how exactly you force opinions down peoples’ throats on a comment thread; might be a useful skill to learn). It might even resolve many of your complaints. In fact, all your points have already been discussed in my previous posts- at least the ones I found worthy of addressing. Now I’ll be forced to repeat myself unnecessarily, so I’ll keep it short and get to the point.
All I am saying is that we must develop a systematic way of assessing quality. And considering it is just film music, popularity is not an unreasonable yardstick. I did not define the exact methodology, but merely suggested a possible direction. “Popular = Good” is obviously an oversimplification, but its a start. If you have a better parameter which captures more variables and possible nuances, we can consider that too. But there is no use in the defeatist romanticism of desperately sustaining the mystique and ambiguity by refusing to entertain any attempt at quantification. No meaningful conclusions are possible in that case.
In the absence of such data, I am forced to draw conclusions from my own (and anecdotal) listening experience, thus bringing it down to the messy realm of subjective opinion. Just like everybody else on this thread. And I have made that opinion clear enough, so no point in repeating it. And we clearly seem to disagree. Nothing wrong with that. I am sure both are viewpoints have enough backers.
As for the rest of your verbose angry rant peppered with wannabe-snarky putdowns of my tone, attitude and stuff, which clearly you seem to have taken a lot of pains to put together (feeling all clever and literary I’m sure), I am not sure how to respond to that, or if I even should. Usually I don’t, and stick to the topic at hand. But then I have already written at length about that, and also such attempts at insults, however juvenile and pretentious, must be acknowledged and encouraged. Being a successful troll takes dedication and time and many failed attempts that fall flat and evoke sympathy rather than humiliation.
Anyway, maybe a “sorry for hurting your feelings” would suffice? Or is that condescending as well? Really, I am too sleepy to fight now. Maybe next time. And lets not further abuse poor brangan’s comment thread.
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Yaja Sri
May 24, 2016
Kadakumar: This is “Sangeetha Thirunaal” enjoying the some one’s loved memories on an anniversary date!!!
Your post was like someone coming to your father’s 60th anniversary happy blog and posting insulting comments as “Kadak father was useless employee and never was @ desk and his efforts never helped the organization, If he was an employee or if he was businessman “He sold all adulterated stuff, over priced and never paid taxes, cheated customer left & Right”.
ARR is propped up by Sony Marketing team. Do you work for Sony? BTW, they found the next & new marketing package “Anirudh” and slowly dumping ARR.
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Yaja Sri
May 24, 2016
IR songs were great in the first listen. and these songs wormed into your ear on the first listen.IR music never needed more than one listen to get amazed. Ask your elders in the family.
ARR songs needs 50 listens to be liked. You guys all proud of it too. The secret is any below-average sounds good after 25 listens. Perfect example is :–> Listen to all the junk/trash songs from Masala movies of all stars in (every language) like Ajith, Vijay, Allu Arjun, Mahesh Babu, Salman, SRK, Amir, Kapoors or Akshay. They become hits because we are forced to listen 100 times in every media TV, net and Radios.
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Sree
May 24, 2016
Some excellent comments in this thread. Thought I’d add my opinion too.
Growing up my favorite cricketer was Viv Richards. There was something about the way he would tear apart any bowler on any pitch on his day. The records if you look at it now, doesn’t showcase the true genius of the man.
Ivan Lendyl was winning most matches on clay at one point of time. He was the world number 1 for a considerable period of time. Again, no where does he feature in talks about tennis.
Time is not considerate to anyone. It is the ultimate truth in life. Everything disappears sooner or later and some lucky things stand the test of time and later humans try to make up information based on what they got. It is not comprehensive or an absolute fact but it is the best they got based on the information at hand.
One of the aspects of my job is data analysis. I can tell you how many times people make wrong decisions because the context is missing from the collected data. This is what happens in many discussions.
I love music. I am not current on my music listening because it is hard for me to sit through auto-tuned music but I got to agree that there are gems in those too. I know one lifetime is not enough to listen to all the music that is created. Forget about analyzing them.
Ilayaraja’s music is special for me but it does not tug on my heart strings as much as some lesser known composers from Malayalam film industry. That said, his music gets into me in a way very few have. It is intellectual. I love the rhythm patterns and time signatures in his songs that very ew have attempted or been successful at this level. Like BR said, I discover new layers in songs even today. I hear a song that I haven’t heard for 20 or so years and do not recollect from younger years still influence me and excite me in a way that I thought earlier impossible. That is magic.
Take Agni Nakshathiram for example. One of my all time favorite songs is from that movie “Va Va Anbe Anbe”. I hardly paid attention to the popular track “Raja Rajathi”. Decades later I heard “Toongatha Vizhigal” and was mesmerized by the composition. It got me wondering what other gems I have been missing and over the last 10 years or so, I have rediscovered Ilayaraja’s music.
Statistically speaking, only a fraction of the past gets carried over to the future. Time hides many things. It is brutal to artists who try so hard to leave an impression. I leave with this brilliant scene from the movie Amedeus which explains what I am going for way better than I can ever will.
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rothrocks
May 24, 2016
@ sravishanker140: Knock me down? He with his supercilious whining? Not even close. Thought we were on track for a breadstick and double bagels finish. 😉
Jokes apart, I just get very irritated when people start whining in an internet debate while simultaneously being rude to others themselves. Besides, I would appreciate a bold attempt at a critical dissection of IR’s MUSIC, especially since we are now being informed he was mostly mediocre with about a 1000 flashes in the pan along the way. 😉 Personality is just low hanging fruit and just because nobody is talking about it doesn’t mean nobody is aware of it; it’s just tired old shit.
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rothrocks
May 24, 2016
@Kadakumar
“And considering it is just film music, popularity is not an unreasonable yardstick.” – But even if you do it that way, many have responded with their own measurements which seem to suggest IR’s hit rate was way better than your claim. You have not acknowledged them, have not paused to consider whether perhaps you were wrong. What is the point of butting into a discussion if you don’t want to acknowledge, much less agree with, another point of view? This place is NOT Rahmaniac Monologues just FYKI.
“But there is no use in the defeatist romanticism of desperately sustaining the mystique and ambiguity by refusing to entertain any attempt at quantification.” – Well duh music IS subjective to the core. That is why tastes differ and that is why you have a million humans employed in the music industry because if tastes were uniform, you would only need a bot today to rinse repeat the music everyone likes. There is no defeatist romanticism here nor desperation. It is you who are desperate to search for an angle to poke at the IR bubble. An admirable endeavour if ill timed but this is not the way to go about it.
“I am not sure how to respond to that, or if I even should. Usually I don’t, and stick to the topic at hand.” – O RLY? Shirley, surely, you mean a topic of your own creation where you can pontificate with utter disregard to the other participants in the thread?
“Being a successful troll takes dedication and time and many failed attempts that fall flat and evoke sympathy rather than humiliation.” – You have some nerve to call me a troll having trolled upon a good discussion of IR’s music. Cool story dude!
“And lets not further abuse poor brangan’s comment thread.” – Oh please do stop with your let’s/we etc; I did nothing and am taking no part of the blame for this, K? You have already ruined a perfectly fine thread which was doubtless your purpose from the beginning. So why should I let you go now without administering some more thrashing to my heart’s content?
Now I am just going to read between the lines. My vayatherichal quip was accurate and well directed, confirmed by your testy response to it. It is vayatherichal only. You dislike all the celebrations over IR’s feat of 1000 films, topped by a grand Vijay TV tribute to the same and now when BR too decided to write about IR, it was the proverbial last straw. For you, an obsessed Rahman fanboy who actually feels jealous and resentful of the attention another composer receives. What a sad life you must live in that case! It is precisely why you jumped into this thread for, by your own admission, you can’t stand people showering superlatives on IR. The question is why would someone who is so intolerant of other opinions be interested in a discussion but I suppose that is something only you can answer. No, I don’t buy that you had any honest or sincere intent in venturing into the topic of IR’s hit rate for if you had, your discussion would have focused on responding to and maybe countering the stats other participants came up with. That is just a red herring when you only needed an excuse to vent against IR. You may do so if you wish because unlike the ruling government I believe in the freedom of expression but there’s just a little problem: I am going to respond to the crap you write and keep taking it apart. Sorry about that!
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Rahini David
May 24, 2016
Honest Raj: I did not pick a Kizhakku Cheemaiyile song to prove this point. KadaKumar did. He said that the song tranported him to Moraponnu-land. I am merely saying IR would have done better. “Arisikuthum Akkamagalea” is another case in point. ARR routinely chose to give rural songs a very urban feel and I am not dissing his effort or the nostalgia of those who consider “Athaikku Piranthavalea” as the quintessential moraponnu song. It is just that IMO songs by IR are better at transporting
youme to the fields of Pollachi than songs by ARR.And please don’t assume that I need to listen to “Maanooththu Manthaiyile”, “Thenkizhakku Cheemayile” and “Kathaazhan Kaattu Vazhi” 5-6 times to understand stuff. I was a teen when those songs hit the radio for the first time. 🙂
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Yaja Sri
May 24, 2016
Kadakumar: Plz never go to another tributary posts for any celebrity and insult them. Ilayraaja are born Once. Lots of builders build building , structures and they are famous in their time period. They are well marketed and sold for very good price or for their fame in their time period/their era. ARR belong to that ordinary category from 90s to 2005. His work is like 40 story luxury apartments. It will be replaced easily He is done.
But there are only few structures like Big temple @ Tanjore or Rock-cut structures @ Mamallapuram are for ever and no price value put on it. Ilayaraaja work is like that. No need of Sony marketing or any PR team needs to write his press statements. IR music will be discussed and talked for centuries.
Ajay Atul
One evening in 1989, Atul had rounded up an audience and collected money to rent out the VCR for the Kamal Hassan-starrer Appu Raja. “I’ll never forget the music of the film. This was the first soundtrack by Illaiyaraaja that we’d heard,” recalls Ajay, 40. “Until then, I thought music could only make you dance. I never felt that music could make you cry or laugh,” says Atul. –
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Yaja Sri
May 24, 2016
Kadakumar: ARR character. never respecting seniors or elders. IR respects MSV. MSV respects Subb and Subb respects his seniors. Only who never did that was ARR. and you guys are chest thumping he is humble. ARR is the worst in the line of MDs.
ARR said he will not use “Hindu god names in lyrics”. Later when Sony wanted to make a deal, he started in Hindi. Never composed one in Tamil. Here is the proof:
He did a few when his market was slow in Bollywood.
Interview by lyricist PA. Vijay.
The book name is A.R. Rahman: The Musical Storm by By Kamini Mathai.
Page number is 207.
*Ayyappa song in Boys movies was composed by some one.
https://books.google.com/books?id=gfCTmjEAChIC&pg=PA207&dq=vairamuthu+rahman+lyrics+%22hindu%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiggon5t57MAhXFWCYKHRp7CvQQ6AEILDAD#v=onepage&q=vairamuthu%20rahman%20lyrics%20%22hindu%22&f=false
I am very sad to post this here. But the hate post is really nasty in memoir blog.
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Naveen
May 24, 2016
I am a Tamil who has lived in multiple cities in india and a few outside. mostly i consider myself Indian first and then a Tamil. there are just few things/ppl that instill a Tamil pride in me – bharathi, abdul kalam, Kamal and IR, not necessary in the same order.
IR is like the sky while other music creators are the wonders of the world ( Taj, Niagara, Eiffel etc ). Sky is there everywhere and is beyond human endeavor. no wonder V wrote “vaanam enakku bodhi maram”
other Mds have give some gems too
1. uyire en uyire by Harris
2. Azhagu Azhagu – GVP
3. Dil se/Uyire, Bombay, Minsara kanavu etc – ARR
4. Premam – Rajesh Murugesan
5. Umrao jaan , bazaar – khayyam
6. Aandhi, Masoom, Ghar – RDB
7. many, many of MSV, KvM
as a fan of IR, i feel IR has planed music into me and hence able to appreciate when others product good music too
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 24, 2016
Rothrocks ! Kadakumar !
Gentlemen please ! I need a break.
This is tooooo exhilerating !
Not sure where you closet writers were hiding so far.
Awesome duel ! Bring on the bagels.
Rothrocks if you need seconds im available
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brangan
May 24, 2016
Honest Raj (formerly ‘V’enkatesh): That ‘Megam kottattum’ video is there to add to the point I was making about songs that are “duets” but with one voice and one instrument (as opposed to two voices). Kamal is a fantastic singer with a unique timbre and a mind-blowing vocal range.
Rahini David: ARR routinely chose to give rural songs a very urban feel…
And this is one of the reasons some people who grew up in his era find it difficult to relate to older songs. Because to them, a “rural song” comes with ambient sounds, it is packaged for easy “consumability”, and when they hear a “vaadai vaattudhu” it sounds “crude”. Whereas for us, a “vaadai vaattudhu” is very much part of the continuum with, say, “kattoda kuzhalaada” or “aarodum mannil” — albeit with differences in the way the songs are orchestrated.
In other words, the “Rahman sound” is a major LOC between two distinct phases of Tamil film music.
As a tangential point, it’s but an accident of birth that “sensitises” us to certain kinds of music (from your “generation”) and makes it the default/norm. I am not saying that one cannot develop a taste for music that’s “different,” but that requires you to be really INTO music and not a general listener.
To take an example from the movies, my knowledge of and love for the Indian art film comes entirely from movies I watched on TV (because there was nothing else), and had I been born in a era with more choice, I might have settled for easier-watching options. As generations become more ADD-ed and fidgety, the reading, movie-watching, music-listening habits — it all changes.
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Narendiran sundarapandian
May 24, 2016
It’s interesting that you should mention “architect” and “a brick never out of place” because I always felt he is like howard roark from The Fountainhead. Never a sound that is unnecessary. For example Bababa bababare from Pudhu maapillaiku. Its as if the song was floating in the air and he pulled it out and gave it to us like a magician.
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Tambi Dude
May 24, 2016
@sree: Viv Richards is the most watched batsman in Youtube of his era. You do realize someone born after he retired in 1991 will hardly be compelled to watch him as they have not seen the genius in action. The right way to compare him is to see how much he is remembered compared to his peers (Alan Border, Gavaskar, Greg CHappel and that most boring and ugly batsman Javed Miandad). And the answer is that IVAR is still the king.
I however agree with you that in pop culture (music, sports), current ones tend to hog limelight than the past greats and it is quite difficult to penetrate that bias.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 24, 2016
Rahini David: My bad! Okay, I’m not questioning your opinion/choice. Agree, ARR gives a western feel even for his rural songs – be it the preachy ‘Senthamizh Naatu Thamizhachiyae’ or the rustic ‘Poraale Ponnuthayi’/’Kaadu Potta Kaadu’. But KC belongs to a different league (in terms of ‘earthiness’), and it was probably the only time he explored stuff at the near-native level. That said, I agree with ‘Aathangara Maramae’. To me, ‘Thamara Poovukkum’ (though it’s very Rahman-like) comes across as the most unforgettable ‘morapponnu’ song. And, I say this as someone who grew up in the ARR era.
BR: Kamal is a fantastic singer with a unique timbre and a mind-blowing vocal range.
I expected this from you. Long ago, when I listened to the Kamal version (guess it was not included in the film), I observed that SPB was at much more ease in various portions of the song (“Mazhai Vanthathaaley” for instance) as opposed to Kamal. But I understand that he wasn’t a regular singer then. What a great deal of improvement from ‘Panneer Pushpangalae’ – ‘Megam Kottatum’ – ‘Raaja Kaiya Vecha’ – ‘Ram Ram’!
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 24, 2016
Cut & Paste – Tamil Copy Cat Songs – Ananda Vikaan
Dear Brethren
Please check out this link
http://idlyvadai.blogspot.in/2013_05_01_archive.html
i.e the section titled “Cut & Paste – Tamil Copy Cat Songs – Ananda Vikaan”
When my brother insisted (two decades ago) that Ilayaraja’s “AyKuruvi Chittu Kuruvi” was a ‘spin-off” from Antonin Dvorak’s New World Symphony I refused to believe him. Until I came across THIS……
Not that MSV and ARR are epitomes of purity as you will see further in the link.
And I can add that “Pachchai Niramay Pachchai Niramay” is again a remix of Fiddler on The Roof.
But I guess at the end of the day its what is called in Gujarat as “Dhandha” – Business has to go on. That’s the bottomline.
I guess if Ennio Morricone, Nino Rota, Jerry Goldsmith, Max Steiner and Henry Mancini had to churn out duet after duet for 20 years they would do the same.
Ofcourse, Ilayaraja never said he didn’t copy. He kept saying something mysterious in interviews such as :“ Isai amaippadhenbadhu oru yaymaattra vaylai….adhay 7 swaraththa twist panni vayra maadhri aakkuvadhu”
Very clever ! The prime example is a tune which keeps getting cut off halfway in Sigapp uRojakkal until you dig deep and discover it’s the Godfather theme.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 24, 2016
Wonderful……………Is that a pin-drop silence or a deafening silence ? Both mean the same I’m told.
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rothrocks
May 24, 2016
On vocalists, apart from mademoiselles Bhava and Jency, he has made several other bizarre choices. Like this little known vocalist he used for Day by Day (Honest Raj) – marred a great composition. I think it’s more like outside songs meant for the stalwarts like SPB, KJ, SJ and Chithra his choices are not always very convincing. With those stalwarts he knows what they can do and casts them aptly. But with the rest it’s like he never really dialled in.
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KadaKumar
May 24, 2016
How fun! Since there’s an audience now, let me have some more fun poking fanboys in the wrong places. Firstly I am thoroughly amused by all the things that have been said about me.
“…we better ignore Kada kumar as he seems to be completely biased not only with having a total negative mindset against IR’s music… ”
Okay so suppose I am biased. Whats wrong with that and how is that relevant though? Bias is but the basis for an opinion. Without bias, no judgment is possible and you can only mouth inane platitudes like “all music is good”,”everybody is good in their own way” and such gas. Also, I did harp on the point that IR has produced many wonderful gems. I never dismissed all his output.
“…Kada kumar likes Pizza and pasta and one day he will réalise its not like mum’s cooking…”
This time you’re right. I do enjoy pizza and pasta. Mom’s cooking is good too. My mom is a great cook of course. Everybody says that. But does that make her a contender for an international masterchef show? Will she win it if she participates? Will she be hired as the head of a michelin starred restaurant? I highly doubt it. And thats kind of the point here.
“…idiot…”
ok
“..vayathuyerichal ku allave illai…”
Why should I have vayatherichal against some chap who’s in no way related to me and not remotely in the same field. Besides being way past his prime. I’d like to believe I am acting simply as a devil’s advocate. Pointing out why this hysteric canonization needs to be re-examined. Not denied, but re-examined. With some data and perspective. Without nostalgia and selective amnesia coming into play. With some attempt at objectivity. And without “IR is god/sky/emperor/mudhalvar/mother/paramatma/ocean…”-type hyperbole.
“..you want to impose your opinions straight down everybody’s throat..”
Again, tell me how to do that. Life would be so much simpler if I could just transfer my opinions to other so easily. Imagine the possibilities. Inception would have been a simpler movie. Does my opinion automatically slide down your throat beyond your control? Maybe you should keep your mouth shut more often then. I did, and so I didn’t feel any of the overwhelming “IR is god/sky/emperor/mudhalvar/mother/paramatma/ocean…”-type opinions gushing down my throat.
“..asinine..”
ok, moving on…
“..typical of how you have handled the whole thing; screaming and protesting..”
If that were the case, I WUD HAV TYPD LIK DIS, U RETARD, IR SUCKS MY #$@&$^, ARR IS THE BEST!!!!!! GO @#$%!^ YOUR &$&%&$&^% IN THE %@*&^**&^ THALA ROCKZ!!!.
“…awareness of the depth and breadth of his music may be low but would have expected a much higher level of logic and reasoning…”
The typical “you just don’t understand…” fallacy. Can always be used as an escape clause when you’re too lazy or dim to articulate clearly. Signals a chasm between the conviction of belief and ability to reason it out. Also, I feel most people use such profound-sounding descriptions like “his music is deeep”, “penetrates my aatma”, etc. without really understanding what they are saying. Intangibles must always be treated with healthy skepticism. Regarding my lack of logic and reasoning skills, I’m working on it. Hopefully by the time I finish my thesis (which I am currently struggling with), I would be able to match up to your expectations. Hopefully.
“…Do you work for Sony?”
What? Why? Can you get me a job there? Its not very relevant to my area, but given my dismal employment prospects, I’ll take it. That would also enable me to troll IR fans with more authority maybe. On office time.
“…supercilious whining..”
Eh? Why would I be whining if I were supercilious? Do you even know the meaning of that word? Or are you just flipping through a GRE word list and picking out random big words to ornament your inane content? You should also look up correct usage of the words on the net. Good luck with your GRE.
“…You dislike all the celebrations over IR’s feat of 1000 films, topped by a grand Vijay TV tribute to the same and now when BR too decided to write about IR…”
Totally. A grand Vijay TV tribute function hosted by DD is the most prestigious acknowledgement of his lifetime achievements. Who needs two Oscars anyway? ARR should just sell those trophies to the scrap metal guy and use the money to lobby for a Vijay TV function for himself. When I join Sony, I’ll try to reach through to him and make that suggestion.
“…feels jealous and resentful of the attention another composer receives…”
If I were a music composer too, then perhaps that is plausible. But I am not a music composer. I am not AR Rahman’s manager, relative, friend or client. The only connection I can think of between me and AR Rahman is that we went to the same school (out of which he was kicked because of poor grades and non-payment of fees). So maybe the PSBB bonhomie is at play here.
So much for that. Feel free to throw more such hilarity at me, and I’m game. My only concern is what @brangan makes of this kozha-adi-sandai his comment thread has become. If he’s an entertained spectator, then all’s cool. Prepare for a long post.
Now coming back to my main point. The essential controversy comes down to the numbers I pulled out. Namely that 100-200 of his 6000 songs are good. This was based on my personal opinion (which I am repeatedly forced to clarify). Other commentators feel that 100-200 is too low. And that is their personal opinion too. So in order to take the discussion forward, we need a reliable estimate of that contentious number.
Therein lies the problem.
Firstly there are the luddites and romanticists who blow hot air about how this attempt itself is meaningless, and music transcends the universe blah blah. To them I say: Go back to smoking whatever it is that you’re smoking (and give me some too sometime). You’re a special snowflake whose soul is pure and eternal and free.
Assuming you’re sober enough to consider this idea, we come to the technical problems of modelling.
What are the tangible parameters you could use to try to capture the notion of “good”-ness of a song?
This is of course a very fuzzy philosophical question debated in general, and there is no complete answer. There exist some basic notions of aesthetics like simplicity, symmetries and patterns. In the case of music, there are basic aesthetic primitives like harmony and pattern rhythms. We find such manifestations of mathematical concepts appealing because of primal evolutionary reasons. There are studies which posit that dance came before music- dance was a way for an individual to showcase his body symmetry to potential mates. And that percussion evolved from our comforting desire to emulate the rhythm of the heart beat.
So it is believed that there are certain very basic building blocks of music that are primally appealing, and permutations and combinations of these primitives, again with some global structure also following those basic rules of aesthetics, are reasonable attempts at constructing an appealing piece of music.
Beyond this, there are neurological tendencies (like a desire for novelty, resolution, closure, familiarity) which manifest as more factors in determining whether a piece is appealing. And all this is just at a very fundamental neurological level.
At a higher level, more subjective notions come into play, which allows for more varying individual responses. Like memories associated with songs. The overall state of mind you’re in when listening. The place and time you’re in tending to dictate fashions and fads.
So basically, there are just too many parameters involved in algorithmically determining if a song will appeal to you or not. As I mentioned, you liking a song says more about you than the song. There is nothing more we can do at this point.
But matters become more tractable if we go statistically. If not just you, but many people like a song, that says a little more about the song than before. Thus it is tempting to simply conclude that some measure of popularity may be used to capture the notion of “good”. This again is contentious for some, but we have no other general approach. If nobody likes a song (even if it shows off some technical wizardry), then in what meaningful way can it be called “good”? And if everybody likes a song (even if it is simple), how can you not concede that it is “good”? After all, people are the deciders, not some abstract entity from above. The problem is in the grey area, where some like a song and some don’t. And when some really love a song, while some simply like it.
Maybe we can retain popularity as a factor but make it more nuanced. Maybe some kind of weighted popularity can be considered. For instance, most people might enjoy a pop song, but there are rock aficionados who really really love a rock song. That intensity must be factored in too in some way. Which means that a binary good-bad is not good enough, we need a more graded approach (say a scaled rating, or Turing-type comparisons coupled with a chess-ranking algorithm as seen in The Social Network). Another factor, which has been repeatedly pointed out, is the aging of the song. So we need to not only have a graded scale but also make it a function of time. We need some way of comparing a song that is a sensation initially (but fades out soon) with a song whose popularity graph is more of a plateau.
Maybe an integral over time of the weighted popularity function? This would describe how ‘good’ a particular song is. Then we could aggregate over all songs of a composer to assess how good a composer he is. Does that seem reasonable? At least the basic idea if not the specifics?
Someone else even suggested that integral idea in this thread, as a joke I assume. But he/she might be on to something.
Assuming that such a parameter would be a good first attempt, we now come to the problem of how we can actually gather the data required to construct this parameter. Asking every single person to listen to every song and rate it everyday for years is not possible, so we have to resort to sampling a small test group and extrapolating. I had suggested immediate candidates audio sales records, youtube likes, etc. but as someone pointed out, they don’t form a very representative sample that could be extrapolated. I guess we cannot do much about this practical problem as of now. Especially concerning the artists of yore. But maybe in future, the data would be in our hands.
When that happens, we wouldn’t have to argue over whether a composer is good or bad. But until then, lets continue the fun: ARR rocks! Suck it, oldie IR fanboys! 🙂
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KadaKumar
May 24, 2016
@RahiniDavid: I realize that many don’t rate ARR’s village songs as highly as those by IR. ARR does add a glossy urban touch to his village songs, possibly making them less authetic in a way. But thats what makes it easier for urbanites to endear to those songs. It is harder to relate to IR’s village songs, authentic as they may be. As brangan mentioned, they sound a bit too crude and raw to me. Maybe IR’s village songs take you to village society with their folk traditions, while ARR’s village songs take you to the village environment with the verdant greens and streams. ARR peddles a city-slicker’s rural fantasy while IR stays within the folksy template.
@brangan: I’m glad that you talked about the sound engineering aspect. I too always noticed that Harris’s sound has a clean smoothness to it, often surpassing even ARR’s sound. Feels like writing with a marker on clear glass. That itself contributes a lot to the popularity of his songs. His sound makes you feel your expensive music player was worth it. Most other composers’ sounds are like chalk on a blackboard in comparison. That might have been pardonable in IR’s time, but not today.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 24, 2016
Kadakumar :
You better get somewhere fast with this line of argument, counsellor.
What was that extra long harangue about ?
Why compare one thief with another thief ?
http://idlyvadai.blogspot.in/2013_05_01_archive.html
Why compare ARR’s blatant lifting of the Al Capone background theme by Ennio Morricone from ‘Untouchables’ and transporting it to Rajnikanth’s ‘Baba’ and Ilayaraja’s lifting of the Nino Rota theme to Sigappu Rojakkal (albeit cleverly disguised – thievery also requires some skill) ?
I still don’t think there hits were flashes in the pan. Its only hunger which made them steal. And they still form part of my teen/adult psyche. – so all is forgiven
But facts are facts. and larceny is larceny (please feel free to correct my vocabulary Mr.Latter Day Fowler)
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 24, 2016
Kadakumar :
Oh and the Gentleman BGM for the Inspector theme is Die Hard / Aaron Copeland’s Finlandia. So much for ARR rocks.
Its very handy to have a textbook which nobody knows about to copy from.
Jai Ho !
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Tambi Dude
May 24, 2016
Nino Rota of Godfather fame??? Can you show some link which proves the resemblances of it to the music of SR.
Talking about SR, that was the first time I realized that IR can compose western style music as well as his rural songs. For some reason, until then my impression about him was that he was good, but only for rural songs. I was bit surprised by Yennadi Menaskhi, though I dismissed it as a flash in the plan.
The theme music of SR introduced me, for the first time in Indian movies, a jazz like Piano music. BTW here is a clever jazz like remix of it:
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 24, 2016
Thambi Dude :
No link required its pretty much all over the movie – it sounds like one of those jingles which play whenever you press the “On” button on a doll.
As BR says “the more you dig the more you find”.
Listen to it carefully and there is a single violin which suddenly barges in to cut off that Godfather theme. As I said its pretty much all over the movie.
Truly a work of genius ! Naan “Genius” sonnadhu andha single violin music (Sigappu Rojakkal dialogue style)
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Rahini David
May 24, 2016
Kadakumar:
But thats what makes it easier for urbanites to endear to those songs.
There was a city called Madras. And in it lived a boy called Baradwaj Rangan. REALLY Long back and maybe the point is moot. But rumour has it that the self-confessed Peter liked IR’s rural music just as good as the boy next door.
ARR peddles a city-slicker’s rural fantasy while IR stays within the folksy template.
He does not seem bothered at all that the person should really appear to be singing that song. Think “ooru sanam thoongiduchu”. You can think that Radha is a village belle and it is really she who is singing that song. Think “Nenjukulea” in Kadal. It does not feel that way. The lyrics have really rural sounding words and the music… well, it just does not. So it kind of pulls me out of the moment. Nenjukulle is an awesome song seen as a standalone song. But I believe that if a song is associated with a movie, it ought to be bound by the movie’s look and feel. It should exist within the movie.
But that does not bother today’s generation and ARR isn’t the only culprit. The songs of GVMenon where the actors lip sync 50% of the time always pull me away from the song’s feel and the assorted actresses who do not lip sync properly do the same. Even choreographers don’t care about the lyrics or backstory of a song ONLY with the song’s music and beat. The previous generation was not like that.
If you listen to Sindhu Bairavi’s soundtrack from start to finish, it will give you the effect of having seen the movie itself. ARR’s music can be satisfying but they don’t really fulfill that effect. Listening to Kilaku Cheemaiyilea soundtrack may remind vaguely about Radhika’s sad face. Distantly. But certainly not to the same extent.
🙂
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ToPutItSimply
May 24, 2016
I am a twentysomething. I understand there was a lot of music made – by that Raja fellow – before I was born. I like a few of them. May be 100 or 200. No, just 100. Some of my friends think it’s cool to like those songs. Like being retro and all. I don’t like most of them. It’s my opinion.
The retarded fans (hey, I don’t know yet that one shouldn’t use the R word so lightly, I will get there sometime when I have finished talking all these) like most of these songs.
I don’t understand how Raja was successful.
Yeah, he ruled the industry over a decade with so many directors working with the but hey, how could that be a proof? That could very well be because of sneaky deals, emotional manipulation, blackmailing, etc., He was able to eclipse promising candidate Shankar Ganesh and the producers, directors and actors who were fools fell for the trick. Simple.
Yeah, this post seems to say how he ruled the radio airtime but radio?! Where is an excel sheet that lists all the 8000 songs and various columns of likes and votes. At least a “stilling listening in 2045 and this song is great” comment? Simple.
Yeah, the author and many people from that time adore the music but that’s just viewing through nostalgia filter, right? I want songs like Mustafa Mustafa which used to make me want to be cool like my cousins who considered it as the anthem. Simple.
Let’s face it. I don’t want all of these. I want some other data to prove he was good and genuinely successful. It’s only 5%. Or may be 7% based on these comments. Simple.
I love Isai movie. Suresh Krishna once said Rahman composed all the songs in Punnagai Mannan.
It is very sad that a career constructed through such manipulating (thank god Mani Ratnam and Rahman saved us) resulted in mediocre music that all the four southern states were subjected to –what fools they all were to enjoy it! And the rabid fans keep talking about it even now.
Oh, i don’t even want to get into Raja’s arrogance.
to everyone else – don’t talk out of your asses. for godsake!
(jmanibhasker280 responds : “I disagree, this is all hearsay but extraordinary writing”).
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shaviswa
May 24, 2016
@Kadakumar IR’s village songs were also not 100% rural. His Poovae Ilaiya Poovae, Kadellam Pichi Poovu, etc. had generous usage of western classical music concepts. The tune was rural, arrangements were very westernized.
I still do not get the argument here. I was born in the MSV time (early 70s), grew up with Ilaiyaraja, went to college with ARR music and today I enjoy Santhosh Narayanan and at times some of the peppy numbers by even a Devi Sri Prasad. I relate to music from the 50s to date.
Musical taste will evolve and it evolves better the more you listen. While I love the music I grew up with, I do not belittle some of the music that comes out today.
And again, not all contemporary music also sounds new. For example, Ghibran’s Sara Sara Kathu song actually sounds more 80s or 90s. It sounds better thanks to modern day recording and sound engineering but at its heart it sounds dated. But does that make it any lesser a good song? I do not think so.
Raja was guilty of taking on too many films and that definitely impacted the quality of his music. There have been many films where he gave one good/brilliant song and rest duds. Some of his films have had “templated” songs that actually do not give you anything new from the rest of his songs.
ARR on the other hand went the other extreme. While he was picky with his projects, he also started focussing on making his song too perfect…..and with all that technical wizadry that he employs to make the song “sound perfect,” at times the soul of the song gets lost. For example, September Maatham in Alaipayuthay is such a wonderfully recorded song but fails to make you go back to listen. However, I would still listen to many of the wonderful songs that he has composed in Tamil. I do not relate much to his Hindi songs – that may be because of the change in idiom that he employs for Hindi songs.
To sum up, I would rather listen to the music and see if it makes me enjoy the tune and the composition. I would worry about the composer or the era he belonged to after I am through with the song. 🙂
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Yaja Sri
May 24, 2016
ToPutItSimply What an ass-umption u made!! ARR composed in punnagai mannan??!!! lol!!! It is not an ignorant statement, it is an idiotic statement. ARR was a daily labor coolie just playing the sheets he was given.
KB released a movie with “incomplete” music by IR. KB completed it with some one. IR was upset with KB and he refused further to work for him. SO the next project “Roja” was produced by KB and got ARR. Half-baked stories.
There would have been no Maniratnam if not for Ilaiyaraaja. IR music only made MR movies watchable and successful like Mouna Ragam or geethanjali or Idaya Kovil or Idhayam oru kovil or Pagal Nilavu or . No body would have watched those movies if not for IR music. (Mounaragam is rip-off Bahgyaraja movie – those 7 days). MR is nanri ketta dog.
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rothrocks
May 24, 2016
@kadakumar: “Why should I have vayatherichal against some chap who’s in no way related to me and not remotely in the same field.” Well, why you should have vayatherical is something either you or your doctor can explain. But that you have vayatherical was established in your very first post on this thread. Here goes:
“I find too much Ilayaraja circlejerking happening these days.” – There, that’s it. There are many more examples but this will do just fine. The point is just because you don’t relate to it you think there is something wrong with the people who do. It makes perfect sense that you would believe that because you struggle so much with the concept of subjectivity in music. But more on that later. Back to the point, just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it overrated. Even if you think it is, the last place where you want to say so is on a thread celebrating the artist’s music. I do think Celine Dion is overrated as hell. Also Idina Menzel. AXL Rose. I could go on and on. But what I definitely don’t do is go to fan sites of these artists and behave like a prick. Once again, the right to behave like a prick is yours but don’t pretend to be befuddled by the responses that such behaviour produces.
“Maybe you should keep your mouth shut more often then. I did, and so I didn’t feel any of the overwhelming “IR is god/sky/emperor/mudhalvar/mother/paramatma/ocean…”-type opinions gushing down my throat.” – Actually that is your very motivation to come and vomit on this thread. You have said so several times in different words that fans shouldn’t call him this or that. Hey, dude, I WILL call him. I personally find deification of any human being pretty sickening but if your soul is sickened thus, I shall gladly bestow the finest of superlatives on IR. 😉
“Why would I be whining if I were supercilious?” – I must admit that the choice of words perplexed me at first as well but upon consideration I realised that it was indeed an apt selection I had instinctively made to describe your posts. You have somehow managed the fine art of combining condescension with pathetic whining. GRE? What GRE? Do you mean to say you received your English education only when studying for GRE?
“Firstly there are the luddites and romanticists who blow hot air about how this attempt itself is meaningless, and music transcends the universe blah blah” – Music need not transcend the universe to be intangible. But the very fact of its being intangible is what makes it so subjective. Further, there are two components involved in the labelling of music as good or bad. There are the technical aspects that go into making a piece of music and then there is the reaction of the audience. There is unfortunately no direct or indirect correlation between the former and the latter; it is very much a game of chance. For someone you label arrogant, Ilayaraja himself is realistic enough to admit as much – that the people who liked his song liked it because they related to it in some way and not because of anything he did.
“If not just you, but many people like a song, that says a little more about the song than before. Thus it is tempting to simply conclude that some measure of popularity may be used to capture the notion of “good”. This again is contentious for some, but we have no other general approach.” – The problem with that is it leads us to the bizarre conclusion that Gangnam Style is the greatest piece of music ever. More so than anything Ilayaraja or Rahman have done. 2.5 billion views and that’s just for the official Psy link. So a song with only passing resemblance to conventional melodic singing and no acoustic lead instrument sections is the greatest? Beethoven, u mad bro? If you are comfortable with that conclusion, fine, I have nothing to say to that. But I don’t believe that it is the greatest piece of music simply because it has so many views. I believe it simply captured a fleeting moment that resonated with audiences across the world for a fleeting moment in turn. Goes back to what I said about people relating to music rather than the music hypnotising them into liking it. If music is subjective at an individual level, that cannot and does not change at the aggregate level. It is just more people relating to a song at a certain point in time. We do not know if they will continue to. Even if they continue to, that does not make it great/greater/greatest. The arrangement of great/greater/greatest and boring/boring-er/boring-est (impropah English, I know, k?) is only done in the playlist in your and my and everybody else’s head.
rguing with people over why somebody got called great esp because that somebody happens to be not so favourite a musician of yours is the worst waste of time, time that could be better spent in discovering more music. Ours is a time in which it is easier than ever before to discover music. Of every kind – great/greater/greatest and boring/boring-er/boring-est. It’s all out there, waiting to be discovered. What does it matter if some group of people, however large, decide to celebrate an artist you don’t like or don’t like all that much? Complaining about that is nothing more and nothing less than resentment imo. It does happen and here I will pre-emptively address a possible grouse of yours. Yes, yes, I know there are IR fans, and many of them, who resent the two Oscars Rahman got and spend a lot of time arguing he is an undeserving, lucky shot. Well, in short, they are fools but unfortunately so are you for resenting the activity of IR fans celebrating his music.
“Pointing out why this hysteric canonization needs to be re-examined. Not denied, but re-examined. ” – Again, I have nothing against this endeavour and welcome it as I dislike sacred cows. But to therefore argue that music itself should not be subjective is just throwing the baby out with the bathwater. That’s too ambitious, too misguided and also way too pretentious (because for instance if the composer in question happened to be Rahman you would not be indulging in this exercise to establish whether he’s right-rated since you love his music and don’t care who doesn’t). Why not instead attempt to articulate what aspects of IR’s music itself?
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brangan
May 24, 2016
OMG! I’ve finally seen the light, thanks to these twentysomethings. All of us were living in The Matrix, elaborately constructed by an undeserving composer who somehow managed to make us believe that the incessant stream of his songs on TV and radio and tea stalls and inter-state buses were actually being played because they were good or because they were hits. They were just random songs, which the RJs just decided to play on whim. Or maybe because the composer manipulated and blackmailed them too. Or wait, wait — maybe the eighties never happened. That was part of The Matrix too.
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rothrocks
May 24, 2016
@ Yaja Sri: I am afraid, to put it simply, you got rick-rolled and right royally trolled by that sheer thing of beauty called internet sarcasm.
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rothrocks
May 24, 2016
@ brangan: Matrix was put together by the conviction of Mani Rathnam and the raw genius of Rahman but that bloody Keanu Reeves manipulated them out of it and released a 1980s film in the late 90s.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 24, 2016
Or maybe because the composer manipulated and blackmailed them too.
In the 2010s, he made legal threats to FM stations that played songs without his ‘consent’.
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/dont-play-my-songs-without-consent-ilayaraja-to-radio-tv-channels/
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 24, 2016
rothrocks : Ha Ha Ha ROFL
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Yaja Sri
May 24, 2016
rothrocks: a little late !!! Damn!!!
BTW, who reads the whole long paragraphs, even skimming is tough.
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SRG PRABHU
May 24, 2016
Any how, as usual in real life, people try to force their opinion on others to prove their own subconscious fear of being neglected, asking for attention by abusing a famous person who gave a lot of happiness or whatever emotion you name it , he has given it, but still some could not digest his monumental success of winning somany hearts…..I, like millions of my own kind, strongly believe his extraordinary talent in giving us high quality music simplified…I don’t think great Carnatic musicians like Chemmangudi, and subbudu and many more appreciate his talent just like that ….nothing will bring down his fans’ love to him….Just enjoy his music..like always….
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SRG PRABHU
May 24, 2016
Any how, as usual in real life, people try to force their opinion on others to prove their own subconscious fear of being neglected, asking for attention by abusing a famous person who gave a lot of happiness or whatever emotion you name it , he has given it, but still some could not digest his monumental success of winning somany hearts…..I, like millions of my own kind, strongly believe his extraordinary talent in giving us high quality music simplified…I don’t think great Carnatic musicians like Chemmangudi, and subbudu and many more appreciate his talent just like that ….nothing will bring down his fans’ love to him….Just enjoy his music..like always….
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KadaKumar
May 24, 2016
@brangan: Join us in zion 🙂 There are dozens of us!
@yajasri: Rofl! Good job, @ToPutItSimply!
@rothrocks
1) Last I checked, this is not an Ilayaraja fan site. I have nothing to do in Ilayaraja fan sites (or any fan sites for that matter). This being a cinema criticism blog is a very legitimate forum for airing opposing views. Sorry for spoiling the orgy, but deal with it.
2) You can bestow whatever grandiose title you want on Ilayaraja. Go on, flip through a thesaurus or your GRE word list, and find some fancy word to show off to the world that you’ve arrived (but do learn its usage first, please, or you’ll make a fool of yourself). I never questioned your right to do so. But I can disagree. Which is what I did. I don’t see how that is the same as depriving you of your fundamental rights to thalala-thukivechufy anybody. I don’t have that power. Yet.
3) Technical wizardry doesn’t necessarily mean good music. If that were so, we’d have very simple algorithms generating great music. As you said, there’s hardly much correlation between the technical sophistication and audience response. So then why must we give any importance to the former as an end in itself? Just so that the composer can show off what he knows? A song is good based on how much it is liked, by how many, and for how long. Art is not independent of its appreciation.
4).I already wrote about distinguishing songs based on longevity- so as to compare sensational fads with timeless classics. That discussion subsumes your point about Gangnam Style.
5) Everything may be subjective at an individual level, but a clearer picture might start emerging if you mine the data statistically. There is nothing wrong in considering that option. But if you insist on staying at the individual subjective level, there is no point in any form of criticism or judgment. We must at least attempt to eliminate subjectivity as much as possible.
6) Why should a criticism of idolizing someone necessarily arise out of personal resentment? By that argument, are all the adoring fans of Ilayaraja personally related to him? Contrary to what you may think, I don’t spend all night whispering curses against Ilayaraja and conspiring against his fans and their celebrations.
7) So instead of wasting time criticizing art, we must all sit and produce art? What do you say, @brangan? Will you stop wasting time trashing movies and instead start making some?
8) By all means, a similar objective assessment of AR Rahman’s music too is very much needed. That need not change my being his fan, though. Just like I’m not trying to convince you that you’re an idiot for being an IR fan. I myself mentioned that ARR’s strike rate has dropped since the advent of the new millennium. I have not deluded myself that anything with his name on it is a masterpiece.
But enough already. Too much redundancy. We are just repeating ourselves in different ways. And your attempts at insulting me are getting more predictable and boring. I get your point of view, and I presume you get mine. And we disagree. As simple as that. Carry on with your celebrations. My work here is done. KadaKumar out.
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vijay
May 24, 2016
Hoping that Kadakumar’s view isn’t representative of the current 20-something gen.
Also wondering what songs in these last 3-4 yrs are exactly going to get this generation of listeners all warm and fuzzy 20 yrs from now.
You don’t have to go back all the way to the late 70s to be an archaeologist. Just look a little deeper into the early 90s list and you can end up with something like this that livens up your day:
The charanams, the way SPB renders them, the way the tune has been constructed, everything done for a film nobody remembers today but for maybe this song.
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P
May 25, 2016
I have been obsessing over your Rockstar post and haven’t noticed that there is an amazing war happening here! Love it!
Reminds me of when I was a kid and our Mysore dam wouldn’t release water to TN and it became a huge issue of “Who does the river belong to!?!” and then Rajini and Rajkumar and everyone else would request people to please “keep the peace and remain calm”. Unfortunately no kids will get leave from school due to the “heightened situation” at the borders of your blog, BR 🙂
PS: I have only one question. What is “vayatherichal”? (Sorry, non-Tamil speaker here!)
PPS: Is it ok to be a huuuuugee fan of both Illairaja and Rahman even if one is a twenty-something? 🙂 (ok, sorry, it’s two questions!)
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Enna koduka sir pera
May 25, 2016
I am a twenty something too and it is only recently that I have started appreciating some of IR’s songs. This was largely because many of his songs that I happened to listened to while growing up gave me a melancholic feel (not just the sad songs). I find many of his romantic numbers (Kaadhal Oviyam, Putham Pudhu Kaalai to name a few that come to my mind) melancholic and because of that I had previously avoided listening to his songs. I don’t think this has got something to with the disconnect with previous era songs as I am familiar with and love a lot of MSV era songs (Naan Malarodu Thaniyaga, Anbulla Maanvizhiye, Madi Meedhu Thalai Vaithu – they all bring out the romantic feel so nicely). Something turned me off from the IR era songs for a long time, but am slowly discovering some gems.
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Raj
May 25, 2016
Did BR put an end to Kadakumaru with the matrix sarcasm ? Hope it is true. He was taking up too much space, attention and energy of other writers in the forum…
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blurb
May 25, 2016
brangan: This post reminded me of a “Bitty Ruminations” post from several years ago (link below).
One, it makes me wonder if the mini-project mentioned in that post got stalled. Two, it also makes me ask for the “different kind of bitty rumination” where you will tell us about how you are not as big of a fan of IR today as in the early days 🙂
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Arjun
May 25, 2016
@kadakumar: Since you are seeking an objective parameter to gauge, how about we start with a semi-objective criterion of musical innovation+ lasting popularity which, for simplicity, we’ll assume youtube hits are a good measure of. Let’s make a list of all the raga based composiitons of IR and ARR respectively and count all the combinations of ragas and talas in the songs that were hits and continue to be popular. Can we agree 100k+ youtube views= reasonably popular? How many 7/8 hits in raga based songs does IR have versus AR. Next, how many hits in raga X does AR have Vs IR? Moving on, how many 7/8 songs does ARR have in raga X Vs AR and so on. You can carry out a similar exercise for chord-based compositions using a slightly different criterion – the novelty of the chord progressions used for example. Likewise for folk songs where the rhythm pattern might be a good measure. We can later move on to slightly more subjective things like instrumentation, melodic value later. Game? How do you want to begin?
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Anu Warrier
May 25, 2016
Coming out of hibernation to say, rothrocks, you rock! 🙂
Disclaimer: I don’t feel the same way about Ilaiyaraja OR Rehman, not having that connection to their music that Rangan writes about with respect to Ilaiyaraja, but liking various examples of both their immense talent, and disliking others for reasons that are purely subjective. My liking or disliking their out put doesn’t take away an iota of their greatness as composers. I’m glad I live in an age where I can appreciate both of them, and several others for the immense joy their talent gives me.
I do have a rhetorical question to all fans out there: Does one have to be ‘bad’ for the other to be ‘great’?
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complicateur
May 25, 2016
P – One cannot be a “be a huuuuugee fan of both Illairaja and Rahman”. It’s like saying you’re “a huuuuuuugee fan of both NWA/Biggie/Tupac and Vanilla Ice”
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rothrocks
May 25, 2016
@Kadakumar:
“A song is good based on how much it is liked, by how many, and for how long.” – Substitute the word popular for good and I agree. Or you could say, a song is good in that sense from the perspective of a marketplace good/product that has some tangible worth. If Ilayaraja cannot make songs that appeal to the public anymore, that makes his music ‘not good’ from the marketplace perspective because the producer/director is looking for a hit. But from an artistic perspective there is no way to say if a song is good or bad. It is about as good or bad as you the listener make it out to be for yourself, that’s all. That means it is unpredictable to the core but then nobody said the music business or indeed the entertainment business is predictable.
“But if you insist on staying at the individual subjective level, there is no point in any form of criticism or judgment.” – I hate to break it to you but there really isn’t. To give an example I related the other day to somebody else, when Shakti came down to Mumbai, I suggested to some friends that it would be a great concert to attend and they avoided it on the grounds that the then new Shakti formation had Mandolin Shrinivas in place of L Shankar, an original member. One dude even called it pathetic classic rock instead of fusion because Shankar Mahadevan was now part of it. I attended it undeterred and it was a magical night that I will never forget. What is more interesting is a year later Shrinivas died prematurely and when John McLaughlin (Shakti’s guitarist and most pivotal member) was interviewed subsequently, he said – no kidding – that he had been waiting for L Shankar to leave the group so that he could let Shrinivas join the band! In short, critics, esp the amateur internet critics, don’t have a clue as to what the artists themselves are doing, what they are aiming for with their music. All the critics do is provide entertainment by describing their reaction to a work of art in a manner that is engaging to read. That is why I read BR’s reviews for that matter – to compare it with my own reading of a film. That comparison in itself is enjoyable and also suggests different ways to look at a film that I may not have thought of. But by itself, a review has no ‘point’ in terms of being useful in a tangible way.
“Why should a criticism of idolizing someone necessarily arise out of personal resentment?” – Because you have no problem idolizing Rahman and using the same epithet to describe him – genius – which you feel IR fans shouldn’t use to describe IR. In a word, you are a bigot, my friend, that’s what you are. Go have a look in that mirror already.
“I have not deluded myself that anything with his name on it is a masterpiece.” – Thank God for small mercies. But seriously, popularity is a very bad way to judge art. The only explanation as to why you are so convinced of its merits can be that you have never even tried to listen to non popular music. I have, lots of it, and stuff that I like over many IR and ARR tracks. Mostly all Western music though, sadly not much encouragement for independent musicians in this country. Prasanna rocks, though.
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ThouShaltNot
May 25, 2016
Here are three of IR’s early offerings that might engender feelings of sheer ecstasy
SPB’s first for Ilayaraja? (I think)
Another one… Rati Agnihotri’s first film
Or this one from Priya (first overseas film for the stiff superstar)
KKumar might be onto something. There is something-something between these 40Nothings (ahem!) and IR songs. Prolonged and excessive intoxication 🙂
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Naveen
May 25, 2016
now that some peace seems to have been established, i would like to share a couple of awesome bits about IR that just left me moved, stirred and shaken. source : different interviews available on YT about IR ( Kamal, spb, IR himself )
during RajaParvai recordings, K used to closely work ( he did for most of IR’s films though ) with IR on the ground level activities, recording etc. but everyday IR would disappear for an hour or so in the evening.Upon repeated questioning and suspicions, it was found that IR was attending his music learning/practice sessions. Imagine that he felt he had to learn more while composing that evershining gem of “Andhi Mazhai pozhigiradhu’
IR also learnt Sanskrit through gurus as he felt knowing Sanskrit was essential to understanding slokas and keethanas. no wonder, the best usage of sanskrit in mainstream film music can be seen in many of his films ( Janani Janani, Nadhiyil aadum, Om Shiv OM etc )
IR explained about auto tuning in one of his interviews. the technically trained ppl can express it better than myself. when you tune one stringed instrument in a room full of other instruments, the other instruments also tune themselves to the tone/frequency and play that frequency. same way IR says he gives the sound that is already inside his fans/listeners so it resonates with them. i have felt that ever since i started listening to music, any music.that is what he says he gives the music that ppl want to listen.
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praneshp
May 25, 2016
@complicateur: based on my anecdotal evidence, you are wrong.
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P
May 25, 2016
complicateur: “It’s like saying you’re “a huuuuuuugee fan of both NWA/Biggie/Tupac and Vanilla Ice”
Are these people or ice-cream flavors?
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Rahini David
May 25, 2016
Punee: People.
Which brings us to the question “Is it possible to like Chocolate as much as Strawberry?”
Confusion. — scratches head–
Vayathrichal is jealousy. I thought someone would have answered already.
🙂
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Rahini David
May 25, 2016
And, Is it possible to be a HUUUUUUUUUUGE fan of Goundamani AND Vadivel?
Actually, I really want to know this.
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brangan
May 25, 2016
Rahini David: “Is it possible to like Chocolate as much as Strawberry?”
Ah, the dessert world’s equivalent of bisexuality 😁
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sanjana
May 25, 2016
Bollywood industry had more than a dozen equally eminent and popular muscians at any given point of time, past or present. Among them there are maharshtrians, bengalis, northerners, punjabis, haryanvis, assamese, from MP, HP, UP and even southern states. They brought so much variety and all Indianness to the bollywood music. The musicians and singers are mostly trained in the hindustani classical tradition and they understand with whom they are working. Age and generation does not matter that much in liking bollywood songs from K.L.Saigal, Rafi to the present day ones. From past music directors to the present ones. It is one big celebration.
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sanjana
May 25, 2016
There are no Kings or Emperors or badshahs. All is perception by fans fuelled by media.
No problem if someone is called King or Queen. Pasand apni apni. Why to take objections to individual choices?
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Rm
May 25, 2016
“..Think “ooru sanam thoongiduchu”. You can think that Radha is a village belle and it is really she who is singing that song. Think “Nenjukulea” in Kadal. It does not feel that way.”
@Rahini David: True. But i think this kind of alienation happens in two ways like BR mentioned already – 1) It is a given that we are sensitized to a certain kind of music that prevails in the most part of our growing up years. For the same reason, I don’t think I will be able to talk about MSV’s music with the same level of passion even though I really like (only) some of his compositions. 2) Rahman’s sound engineering with all its soaring, lingering reverberating, ringing effects most of the times doesn’t usually gel well with the visuals. For instance, ‘Then maerku paruva katru’ or the other songs from Karuthamma. There are striking exceptions ofcourse , like a kannalanae from Bombay or Thoda Thoda from Indra. And then there is a ‘Chotta chotta nanayudhu tajmahal’, or a ‘sowkiyama kanne’ from sangamam or even a ‘Narumugaiye’ that I would prefer to listen on a strict ‘Audio only’ basis :). Maybe this phenomenon of alienation happens when you seek to earn the rights for your music yourself rather than letting the producer claim it and in the process make it a few notches better than the visuals demanded by the script.
That being said people have often felt and expressed that you will eventually start liking ARR’s music with repeat listening, if you have already not liked it the first time that is, or after watching the visuals of the song on screen (this I feel, is especially true for Shankar movies). And in ARR’s breeziest composition till date(IMO) ‘Pachai Nirame’, its is PC Sreeram’s exotic cinematography that comes to my mind first. Except for in the post 90s time,we did not have these level of diversities much in IR’s music. And also I think IR composed most of his music in a time when the concept of track release or album release did not exist. You would have watched the songs as much as you would have heard them. Or you would have watched it first only to add it later in your cassette collection. So it naturally influenced the way in which these songs stuck in your mind.
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P
May 25, 2016
I am gonna use vayathrichal everytime from now on. What a beautiful word….
Thanks Rahini. Oh, I googled. Those people make some music I believe it sounds more like they are talking. bleh. like rhymeless “poetry” is a thing I guess toneless “music” is a thing too.
And I mash strawberry and chocolate together with cake and eat it from a large bowl while listening to 90s Rahman 😉 So that answers your question. I am a hedonist 😀 😛
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Naveen
May 25, 2016
I think ARR should wriggle out of superstar/shankar obligations and be free like with Imtiaz Ali where he shines really well. SS and S are becoming like AVM and SPM for IR. ARR was excellent in Taal, DilSe, RDB, JodhaA, Lagaan, Swadesh, Rockstar-Highway-Tamasha and not so much with other directors in Hindi. in Tamil he does not seem to do outside of MR or S. i believe he is spending a lot of his creative energy at his KM School as well and collaborating with a wide range of artists
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Rahini David
May 25, 2016
Rm: Absolutely no question at all. I agree with every thing you say.
The ability to suspend disbelief is essential if we want to feel anything in a movie. If that is not the case, we will keep wondering why there is a veena playing in the background when the heroine actually alone. In 60s movies, the heroine will talk in regular Tamil in the beginning and in the climax she will suddenly break into Sentamil and suspending disbelief was never too difficult in that situation. One reason is that the dialogue is so good, that we are not bothered with the plausibility.
So it may be the same with supposedly rural songs which have a polished feel to them. And I am not talking about ARR alone. Just the trend of not bothering into the movie/situation.
These days we have songs that refer to a lady called “Anjala” when the heroine isn’t named Anjala at all and I don’t really get it. Why not push that particular song into a movie that really has an Anjala and write another song for this one?
The song “Paakathay Paakathay” from Gentleman talks about “Dhavaniya Thalathay”. There is no Dhavani to speak of. Why? And no camels in “Othagatha Kattiko”. Budget problems? But after that one movie, Shankar really gave a lot of attention to the lyrics of the songs and that is something I like about him.
Think “Sippi Irukuthu Muthu Irukuthu” or “Kanmani Anbodu” or any song from “Salangai Oli”. You can listen to the songs alone, but they existed within the movie. They did not stick out like sore thumbs.
But of course, I don’t know what the director’s brief to the music director was. If the director himself had said, “Provide 2 happy songs and 2 sad songs for my completely generic movie”, what else can the m.director do?
I am overthinking this and I need to stop. Even I can see it. 😀
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Rahini David
May 25, 2016
And some songs like “Kaadhalin Deepam” did stick out of their movies. But they did by being too perfectly awesome. So that is probably how people feel about “Kizhakku Cheemailea” soundtrack? That it earns its right to stick out by being so damn awesome? Maybe.
So what do you think about “Pudhiya Mugam” soundtrack? Did the movie deserve ARR’s music? I have always felt that it didn’t.
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benny_l
May 25, 2016
//All I said was this, and I maintain this: IR has produced some wonderful timeless gems, no doubt. But most of his work was unimpressive and crap. We don’t notice the crap, or we forget the crap. While we remember and celebrate the classics.
@Kadakumar, the technical term for this is Survivorship Bias. This spans across cultures. Particularly w.r.to music people tend to think past was perfect, with every song they can remember being timeless gems. But they form this opinion just based on songs they remember. To have accurate impression one needs to be aware of the total number of songs made and the number that made in to our memory. This is like a person looking at crowded restaurants everywhere and coming to a conclusion that restaurant business is very good. He fails to realize the number of restaurants that may have opened but closed shop due to poor business. But human brain tends to be bad at statistics by nature leading to such biases.
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Karthik
May 25, 2016
@Rahini- There could be a chicken and egg issue here too: perhaps our rural aural responses have been tuned a certain way thanks to Ilayaraja/MSV, and Rahman’s sounds are a bit distant from that musical subspace? Maybe the urban newbies will tune themselves to Rahman/Santosh rural sounds and fifteen years later lament on the composers of that era.
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nellaivel (@vel1972)
May 25, 2016
Kind request to rahman fanboys…
Do not pollute this thread with your deep rooted hatred to IR, stop vomiting your rants and biases. You guys main intention right from the beginning in this thread is to show ARR is god and IR is worthless fellow with choices of word like retard, his work is crap.
This may be harsh but IR do not need your certificates. He is legend, one time phenomenon and he is suyambu.. You guys thank T.T music is ordinary, buddy this our own authentic folk music.
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KayKay
May 25, 2016
B, you really should write more of these pieces, as not only do I get the pleasure of reading them, but it sparks these “Civil Wars” on your comments section. Oh well…’tis the season of duelling (super)heroes after all:-)
“The videos, for instance. Every time I tell someone to look a song up, they’ll go to YouTube, and end up watching eye-blinding clothes on a couple executing dance steps styled after exercises in PT class. Once you’ve seen those images, once you’ve laughed at them, it’s hard to take the song seriously.”
Ain’t that the truth.
Just imagine loving this gorgeous, sensual yet moody Raja composition superbly rendered by SPB for decades, never having watched the movie, only to YouTube it to discover it’s pictured on a sleazy scene with Sri Devi and a C-Grade Malayalam Actor, Oh, the horror!
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Rahini David
May 25, 2016
Karthik: Oh, there is absolutely no question about that. But a person who has a taste or sensibility different from ours are not automatically retarded and deluded and brainwashed and all that.
Real rural songs sound like “thoothu karai orathilea”. Not all of IR songs sounded fully like that. But he tried. He bothered to make his sounds gel with the movie.
But another generations taste and nostalgia though incomprehensible to us should not bring about the kind of bile that it generated here.
We often thought that the youth were ushering in a world of tolerance. No castes among the youth, no sexism among the youth, acceptance of gay population, overall acceptance of those different from us. This was our dream.
But look what has happened. Some one who can’t even accept that it is possible for sane people can enjoy IR music.
Yes, I did make fun of bell bottoms and asked my mom if she thought that guys who wore it looked hep. She answered that prabhu deva’s baggy pants will not look hep forever. But I didn’t go about accusing older people of circle jerking just because I didn’t understand their taste.
Maybe too much porn when too young made these people like this? Or is this normal male talk and women are finally privy to how men talk to let off steam? I don’t get it. I just don’t
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Tambi Dude
May 25, 2016
“I do have a rhetorical question to all fans out there: Does one have to be ‘bad’ for the other to be ‘great’?”
Right from 90s I have seen in the net forums that when it comes to ARR vs IR it is like “If I like Dosai it automatically means I hate Vadai” :-).
This post and comments (flame wars) reminds of http://www.tfmpage.com which use to be very active in the second half of 90s. I see that the site still exists, though I am not sure how active it is.
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Tambi Dude
May 25, 2016
and here is the first song which use to embarrass me in front of elders when it was played on AIR Chennai back in 1979. But it was still nothing compared to that song from Moondrampirai.
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vijay
May 25, 2016
BR should know better.If you are going to introduce your cousins to early IR songs through videos, you have to restrict the lot to Balu Mahendra/Mahendran/Mani Ratnam picturized songs and even there be a bit selective.
“Just imagine loving this gorgeous, sensual yet moody Raja composition superbly rendered by SPB for decades, never having watched the movie, only to YouTube it to discover it’s pictured on a sleazy scene with Sri Devi and a C-Grade Malayalam Actor, Oh, the horror!”
That isn’t too bad compared to this one picturized on a pair of doggies
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 25, 2016
Totally off-topic: Not very sure, but looks like today is Goundamani’s birthday.
KadaKumar: Hope you enjoy this one. 🙂
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Karthik
May 26, 2016
@Rahini: I think part of it, at least in this case, seems like the paranoia that often comes from being left out of a group. The comments section in BR’s blog has such an open policy towards very diverse thoughts, that when opinions coalesce strongly towards a particular idea that a person does not espouse, the reaction can be quite aggressive. And when he/she is well equipped with the tools of language an ugly battle ensues. As much as we might intellectually appear to be ushering in an era of acceptance, I think our primordial biology still needs some catching up.
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Rahul
May 26, 2016
This article about generational bias is a good read:
p.s. this article is not meant to be a commentary on the ensuing discussion, as being a north indian, i do not have any strong feelings about this. I don’t think we have a music director for whom opinions are so starkly divided.
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venkatesh
May 26, 2016
@Rahini : I wanted to stay out of this whole thing. IR threads bring out the worst of the ARR devotees.
However, this comment of yours “No castes among the youth, no sexism among the youth, acceptance of gay population, overall acceptance of those different from us. This was our dream.” touched a nerve.
For a person in his Thirties when i look at the young un’s i don’t get it.
With all the talk of safe spaces, trigger notions, cultural appropriation and what not. I feel like i am the rebel for suggesting acceptance of differences. Its almost surreal to see them actively seeking out echo-chambers with a self-selecting bias and anything not fitting into their perception automatically “triggers” them.
Of course, usual disclosures of generic statements apply.
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Kumaran
May 26, 2016
BR, so glad to see an article that perfectly puts together my thoughts into words. I relate very much to this piece, because I’m just 20 years old now but my respect and love for Ilayaraja songs is higher than it’s ever been. Many of my tamil peers (basically all) don’t understand him as you said and I sort of had this issue too (although I greatly respected his music) until recently. You can really tell the beauty of his composing style when you listen to Neenthana En Pon Vasantham, Yuvan Shankar Raja’s version of “Putham Pudhu Kalai”, one of the greatest compositions ever “Nee Partha Parvai”, and the reused background score (although the original one from Johnny was magnificent too) of 7G Rainbow Colony. These pieces give us a modern look at Raja and a version that even people today can understand. I even tried telling exactly what you said to my mother the other day about how the older sounds don’t quite connect with the newer generation. Recently I have been marveling at his background music in some of his films…in Thalapathi and Nayagan, his scores bring out a wild amount of emotion from you. I remember a scene where Rajini tells Shobana to basically get out of here and find someone else to marry and as she walks slowly away…the melodious and sad theme music kick in, as Rajini with the sunset behind him, stares off. What a scene and tune! I can watch that 30 second scene and feel the emotion without even having to watch the entire movie. So much is conveyed through Raja’s music.
Somehow when Rahman came into the industry with “Roja”, the whole sound of his music was exciting and entirely new…hearing “Pudhu Vellai Mazhai” was like taking a great Raja composition and perfecting it. That’s not to say Rahman is better than Raja because they’re entirely different breeds and great in their own right, but Rahman’s savvy with technology allowed him to immediately get a hold of the new generation. Today, after spending my entire life listening to mostly Rahman, I am listening to Raja songs multiple times each. I’ve heard most of his classics through my life due to them playing in the car (my dad is a big music downloader) and through watching TV but as you said, Raja was an unbelievably prolific music director. 1000 albums! Wow, I have some more work to do!
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Raj
May 26, 2016
Director Balki insists Raja to rehash his older tunes just so that the current generation can understand Raja’s music [Or he is smart to understand that he may not be able to get the same level of music from Raja anymore]. My wife who hardly listened to Raja’s tunes growing up, loves Sannata from Shamitabh but not too much into Asaiya Kathula from Jhonny. This kind of validates that the current generation may not appreciate a song if it doesn’t sound right in their fancy music systems. This goes in line with BR mentioning about how Raja’s sound engineers let him down.
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Naveen
May 26, 2016
IR’s music is more like the sugar or milk in kheer/payasam or ice cream, the music becomes the film and the film becomes music. with most of the rest, the music is like the topping on the icecream or the cashew/raisins in the kheer, replaceable/transportable to any other movie and dictated/directed by the music studios’ pressure on numbers.
as fans, we can enjoy both and be glad we are living in their times to analyse them directly so much and not look back like we look at the musical Trinity ( so long back, only the music lives now )
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KayKay
May 26, 2016
“IR threads bring out the worst of the ARR devotees.”
venkatesh, the reverse often holds true as well, brother 🙂
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anusrini20
May 26, 2016
I read this a few times. Thank you for trying to describe what it feels like to grow up in the IR era. I’m a twenty something (feel a bit nervous admitting it here now, hehe) and I’ve always wished I could have grown up with his music. 🙂
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Ananth
May 26, 2016
@ kadakumar
I am an IR fan.
I thank you for outshining (outnumbering!) BR in this tribute to IR.
You spending so much time and thought on IR says something about the genius of IR.
(My guess is kadakumar has used only 5% to 7% of this page. We need some hard data here!)
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Aditya (Gradwolf)
May 26, 2016
About the complicateur/praneshp/P question, is it possible to be a huuuuuuuge fan of IR AND ARR, I am with complicateur on that one. I”ll just use Steve Tignor’s words on Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal – about myself, I am a Rahman fan and a Raaja admirer. (maybe my age and growing up years is the only factor here).
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Utkal
May 26, 2016
A non-Tamilian perspective: how I built my Ilayaraja collection. I started seeing Tamil films when BHEL, my first employer sent us on a three-month training stint at Trichy in 1978. I fell in love with Kamal Hasan and the music of IIayaraja. The raging hit for community singing those days was “ Chaumundi Poo Mudichu’ from ‘Padinaru Vayadanile’. I ended up seeing a lot of Tamil films just for the music of Ilayaraja. Of course I went crazy with the songs of Thalapathy (Rakkamma Kaiya Thattu, Sundari Kannal) and Agni Nakshatram (Raja Rajadhi Raja, Oru Poonga Vanam). There was Raja Parvai (Andi Mazhai), Moonram Pirai ( Kannae Kalai, Poongatre), Alaigal Ooivathilai ( Kadhal Oviyam, Vizhiyil Vizhundu) and so many others. But I realized Ilayaraja was an ocean and I had picked up only a few pebbles. So I had to savour the rest. But I did not trust anyone’s choice and any ‘Best Of’ compilation. It had to be my own. There was a shop in 8th Cross Malleshwaram in Bengaluru, Shankar’s, which lent out cassettes for listening, and also recorded songs as per your list, charging 2 rupees a song. So I started borrowing cassettes of Ilayaraja films at random from Shankar’s, listening to them and making a note of songs that I liked. Often times I had never heard of the film. (Kadalora Kavithaigal was one such film.) Sometimes I would be surprised to find that a particular song had been copied as an immensely popular Hindi song and no one knew its origin( “ Dhak dhak karne laga’ from Beta was an original in “Jagadeka Veerudu Athiloka Sundari”). Sometimes it would be a currently popular song that would show up on TV. And so it went on for a few months. And at last I had a list to fit into four cassettes – Best of Ilayaraja 1, 2 3 & 4. My prized possession.
CONFESSION: I still listen to my Ilayaraja collection once in a while. And he is divine! But I MUST listen to at least one ARR song everyday. Otherwise my blood does not circulate through my veins. And I still love to listen to songs of Kadhalan, Indian and Gentleman. Love the intricate change of pace and alternating rhythmic explosion with silky melody of Hariharan’s voice in Telephone. Love the joi de vivre of ‘ Premika Ne Pyar Se’. My feet cant stand still every time I hear ‘ Usilambatti’. I love every song of Rangeela. This is the film where he truly got the spirit of a ‘ musical’, where a character’s feelings are truly exprsssed through a song. You can hear Aamir Khan singing his heart out in ‘ Kya Karein Ki Na Karein’. Can’t resist being seduced by Hariharan singing ‘ Hai Rama’. The frenzied rhythm of ‘ Hello Doctor’ or ‘Kalluri Salai’ drives me crazy still, just as ‘Thendrale’ soothes me to a state of ethereal peace. And no, I don’t think ARR has lost any of his magic after the 2000. Lagaan, Bhagat Singh, Taal, Rang De Basanti, Ghazini, Jaane Tu Yaa Jaane Na( Kabhi Kabhi Aditi, what a composition!), Rockstar, Tamasha ( Just two songs: Agar Tum Saath Ho and Wat Wat Wat made my day), Vinnaithaandi Varuvaayaa, Ai, Ok Kanmani. Yrs, back in the 90s one waited for every ARR album, with bated breath, not knowing what he is going to come out with. There will be Indian, then there will be Dil Se, then there will be Duet, and then Rangeela, then there will be Karuthmaa….each one totally different from the other in sound and style. Of course it is difficult to keep that up. For anyone.
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Ananth
May 26, 2016
I am writing from a small town in Tamilnadu. Waking up every morning, i am treated to IR songs by an unknown neighbour. I go by bus(es) to my office. Invariably, it is IR songs played by the drivers.
I remember this: once in the peak of the summer, at about two in the afternoon, i boarded a crowed govt. town bus – sweating profusely, and then it is “kathiruthinthu kathiruthinthu” from Vaidehi Kathiruthaal, the song that disliked for some reason. But it was magic that day. The whole bus went silent. I forgot the heat and the sweat. Wow. IR!
It is my guesstimate that 60 to 75 % of the time is devoted to IR in the buses in TN. Only the remaining to the current crop of MDs. Sometimes, i get a feeling that the drivers and conductors use IR songs as some soothing balm to repair the damage done by the current chartbusters served by the likes of Anirudh. (Because they are the ones – drivers and conductors – listen to the songs on all the trips)
I get down at the bus stand, again the shops play IR. At night, i tune into the Kodai FM, ah again it is IR.
My conclusion: the loud speaker generation is still listening to IR. Because of this, the earphone generation is force fed IR. So, BR you need not worry about today’s generation not listening to IR.
Btw, as an IR fan, i experience the “vaitherichal” very much that IR is dislodged from his perch. But i get the solace by rationalising that IR still has some 70% airtime. That makes him the no.1 MD even today.
Plus, even the current crop of top directors and actors want to work with him: Bala, Myskkin, Balki, Gowtham Menon, Samuthirakani, Manikandan, Dhanush and the likes. Kamal is working with IR again!
Probably, he gets more offers and requests than even AR. BTW, as some one has pointed out, AR has worked only with the big banners.
…
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Ananth
May 26, 2016
One more observation about “archaeologists”:
An AR fan would have listened to all his work. Because it is limited in number.
But, an IR fan would not have listened to all the songs of IR. We keep digging. But most of us are proving to be ineffective or lazy. So, we keep listening to the popular songs or the easily available ones not the hidden gems.
A few years back, it was “nadhiorum naanal ondru” from Annai Oru Aalayam playing on the radio. I was so mesmerised by the song. Suddenly, the thought that i,a die hard IR fan, being swayed by MSV. Oh no! But my joy had no bounds, when i learnt that it was IR – the MSV fan of course!
Then i found a few more from the late 70’s and early 80’s i.e. the first ten years of IR. Now, i am convinced that is his best. All the songs are great! You pick anything. You are not disappointed.
To my surprise, i found that IR has given some great numbers for Sivaji apart from Mudhal Mariyadai. Today, my favourite is a song from Rishi Moolam “Neramidhu neramidhu” – mind blowing.
Recent digging, gave the current no.1 in my play list “Malargalile Aradhanai”. I love this rendition too.
Still lot of digging ahead…
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 26, 2016
Honest Raj :
Thank you Thank you Thank You soooo much for my favourite Goundamani joke !
I never tire of the clip you posted
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anandkumarrs
May 26, 2016
Rangan, Fantastic post on Raja. Very involved and analytic. I happened to pen a tribute to Raja on his 1000 films – Ilayaraja 1000!! – http://wp.me/p1dZc2-rf
Pls do read and feedback is most welcome. Thanks
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Naveen
May 26, 2016
Ananth, the Neramidhu one is almost like MSV. great one. also look for “Oru Vanavail Pola, En vaazhvile vandhaai” by Jeyachadnran and SJ.great one, awful video though. like “Kannan Oru Kaikuzhandai” which can win the worst video for a great song contest. that was IR’s time’s bane too. great songs in poor picturisation.
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blurb
May 26, 2016
I have gone somewhere deep underneath digging for treasures.
I found this one (one part of a several part series): https://youtu.be/CnuouXeJUwc
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 26, 2016
vijay: The same old ‘GVM’ vijay? 🙂 For the most part, it looks like the actors are playing second fiddle to the doggies.
Even Mani Ratnam’s earlier films (PN and IK) had awful songs, ably accompanied by horrible picturisations and comic ‘dance steps’. The later films of Mahendran and Balu Mahendra, too, suffered from the same fate:
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brangan
May 26, 2016
Pagal Nilavu and Idhayakoil = “awful songs”?
Okay then 🙂
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 26, 2016
Honest Raj :
If you want the Inside Story on ‘Oororama aaththuppakkam’ check out the Epilogue in this link………
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Naveen
May 26, 2016
Honest Raj, please catch up MR’s first film Pallavi Anu Pallavi. the songs were well preserved and picturised. IK had great music and songs, but footage could be due to Puliyur Saroja’s choreography in the peppy numbers and with Mohan as the lead even MR could not help with how to shoot the Idhayam Oru Koyil which is a gem. I thought PN was quite gracefully done btw, Idhayam Oru Koyil was written by IR much like the En Ullam Koyil song in Thaarai Thapattai. both r like IR pours himself out in those songs, gr8 singing by Sharrath in the TT one.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 26, 2016
BR :
“Pagal Nilavu and Idhayakoil = “awful songs”?:
ROFL
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 26, 2016
No, not the entire album, but one or two songs. 🙂
In fact, ‘Naan Paadum Mouna Ragam’ is a favourite. I was rather talking about songs like ‘Myna Myna’ (IIRC, there’s some discussion about this song in CWMR). I feel ‘Oho Megam Vandhadho’ is a massive improvement from ‘Oororama Aathupakkam’.
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Rahini David
May 26, 2016
Questions to the young ones: How much do you like (or can stand) “Kaadhal Kasakuthaiyaa”
I personally consider it an AWESOME song. What to do? I am like that only. 😀
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rothrocks
May 26, 2016
@benny_l: “Particularly w.r.to music people tend to think past was perfect, with every song they can remember being timeless gems. ”
I think you have it exactly backwards w.r.t IR. There were so many films, so many songs in the 80s that there has been a process of filtration over time, zeroing on the absolute essentials (which ostensibly represent IR’s music style and repertoire adequately well). But it does not follow that those songs deemed as non essential are BAD or were not HITS in their time. Dhavani Kanavugal songs are no longer in the essential category but they are by no means BAD either. Likewise Thenpandi Tamizhe from Paasa Paravaigal. It’s a very long list. I am going to compile one for good IR songs from 1976 to 1993, post it on a blog and link it here. BUT I am pretty sure it’s well over the ridiculously low number of 100-200 that was tossed out here. More like, retention of songs beyond that number for a single composer, single decade is difficult for all but the most devoted and industrious fans. Just because Sexy Sadie does not enjoy the exalted status of a Strawberry Fields Forever or Something in the way does not make it a bad song and in fact it was good enough for Radiohead to slyly nick its chords for one of their iconic songs – Karma Police!
P.S: Oh, by what standards am I going to decide if a song is ‘good’, having previously stated that there is no such thing as an objectively good song? Well, by the same standards by which Mustafa Mustafa is regarded as a masterpiece.
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rothrocks
May 26, 2016
@ P: “Is it ok to be a huuuuugee fan of both Illairaja and Rahman even if one is a twenty-something?” No, because if the former, you are just trying to be retro-hip and if the latter you are Besant Nagar Peterette. Better to be fan of Anirudh than IR and Rahman.
Jokes apart, I think both composers have much more in common than their die hard fans would ever care to admit – Tamil, film music, melodic, capable of being very elegant and very creative (we will leave the degree of capability aside here). Believe it or not, that’s quite a lot of commonalities. If I can be a fan of Radiohead and Ilayaraja, what’s so difficult or impossible about being a fan of AR and IR at the same time? I seriously don’t understand people who think the two are incompatible choices.
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rothrocks
May 26, 2016
@ brangan : Yeah, nice catch. Poomalaye IS marred by IR’s vocals but still has incredible music. And nothing need be said about Idhaya Kovil, where SPB was in particularly great voice.
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rothrocks
May 26, 2016
@ Rahul: I like how in the otherwise excellent interview, he sidestepped the question of autotune with a red herring about studio wizardry. That kind of thing has always been there, but autotune crosses a lakshman-rekha in allowing people who barely hold a tune live to become singers. I thought Lana Del Rey was a not half-bad singer…until I heard her live performances. I don’t mind some singer taking a note in falsetto that he/she ‘covered’ in the studio using technology but he/she should still be able to sing in the bare basic sense of the word. If technology masks THAT, there is a problem. Ironically you can’t really do that with acoustic instruments because it takes a certain skill level just to be able to play a guitar or a violin competently. I am not sure even Hendrix would have been delighted to find the Lana Del Rey equivalent of guitar hogging the limelight without being able to play it at all while his efforts went in vain.
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P
May 26, 2016
rothrocks: Both of these men are different, and inspire different feelings from me…how can you compare them? 🙂
The thing about Rahman is I think his music 99% of the time bursts beyond the seams of a movie because its uncontainable. Even the forgettable “Lekar Hum Deewana Dil” had a most adorable song.
He is badi chidiya, iss chote se pinjre mein he’s not going to fit 🙂
Ilai sir on the other hand is a memory and reminder of more innocent times 🙂 My favorite album of his is Thalapathy, just those initial beats in Kaatukuyilu are so epic. Reminds me of when I was a kid and my uncles from Madras would start dancing in typical old-fashioned Rajni style 🙂
Rahman is me, he is us, he is my generation, he screams in rage, in anger, his love is intense, his pain is primal, he will try and try and try in confusion and agony, but he won’t takes no for an answer. Ilai sir is more genteel, more “civilized”, softer, delicate, traditional even…he is my my mom singing “Kadhalin Deepam” multiple times, and insisting I watch Thalapathy in the theatre because “Mani Sir+Ilai sir” is genius and it doesn’t matter if I don’t understand the language 🙂 (I will never be able to thank her enough for that because it was my first view of Rajni that can never be superseded by anything else I ever see of him, for me he was is and will always be “Suriya”.)
PS: Yes, I know this is a very rose-tinted view of things, #SorryForEmoshuns 😛
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Jagajaga
May 26, 2016
@Rahini – Seems like no one answered your query about G.Mani and Vadivel.
These folks are awesome, like really awesome. really really awesome. Markukaa Marukka awesome. But I am not a HUUUUUUUUUUGE fan of either.
Instead, I am a HUUUUUUUUUUGE HUUUUUUUUUUGE HUUUUUUUUUUGE HUUUUUUUUUUGE fan of Pandiyarajan!
This is definitely a digression from the main topic here, but do allow me to bring back nostalgia from the IR era, when Pandiyarajan was also at his peak of five feet zero inches!
For me, that guy embodied the essence of thoughtless yet fantastic movies. Really miss his style of movies these days. They completely take this feeling called seriousness out of you, and activate the fun mode instantaneously.
I’ll give an example, in this movie Dilli Babu. P. Rajan will have to escape from his abductors. What would a mass hero do? Beat the bad guys black and blue, and escape against all odds.
What does P. Rajan do? He thinks. Then tells the hunky-dory folks who abducted him “Do paarunga paa Russia la miga periya boogambamaam. Ippo neenga laam guninji taraila padukkala naa avlo daan”. The villians get scared, obey P. Rajan’s orders, and lie down on the ground. P. Rajan makes use of this opportunity to escape from them, by simply running!!!
Classic Pandiyarajan. No thought, no logic, brazen simplicity, and literallylots of laughter around.
Stuff like, Vaay Kozhuppu, Paati sollai tattade, dilli babu, kumbakonam gopal, aanpaavam, kathanayagan, forget the name of this movie, but it features the famous “Bimbiliki Bilepi and Maama Biscottu” dialogues, and so on.
Why don’t people make such movies anymore?????
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rothrocks
May 26, 2016
@ P: Just goes to show how we perceive the same music so differently. To my ears, IR sounds so irreverent, raw and almost too frenetic (I do wish he could have done a few more songs in the Mandram Vandha vein with more breathing space between notes). More so in the early years but Mudhal Murai Partha Nyabagam from NEPV showed the inner flame was still burning bright. While Rahman sounds casual, urbane and polished, very nice music to chill out to. Of course I am thinking of a different Raja from the Dhalapathi version. More like, Ithu Oru Nila, Endrendrum Ananthame, Pani Vizhum Malarvanam, Ponmeni (ok, sounds lewd but then the interludes are so win!). THAT’s my favourite Raja.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 26, 2016
Jagajaga ”
“Pandiyarajan was also at his peak of five feet zero inches!”
Too good. I loved his thiruttu muzhi as wel as his Duh Big Moose blank look.
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P
May 26, 2016
@rothrocks: We are not perceiving it differently. In our country the raw, the village is the normal, the urbane, the casual, the polished is the abnormal. People take pride in eating vada pav and diss those who drink Starbucks pre-packaged coffee as pretentious…. 🙂 No?
So to be Indian, is to be that is good and “decent” and while Ilai sir has had his lets call them “Crazy moments”, he’s mostly stuck to what he knows his audience loves and knows and of course he is amazing at it, I don’t think anything he has done has been shocking. He is beyond brilliant at reflecting us back to us, that takes a special skill and I love him for that. He takes us back to who we are, were and will always be.
But Rahman came out in a changing India, a different, impatient, irreverent (and yes, arrogant) generation of over-achievers, his music had to cater to them, yet be Indian, he was never innocent- that is for sure. He was calculative, and sure and always commercial, and some would even say cold…but that is the price one pays I guess….
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P
May 26, 2016
rothrocks: I liked the comparision of mom-food to hotel-food however jarring and kinda tacky it is.
Illai sir makes no demands of us, he knows us, and I am glad you brought up Ponmeni (of course its not lewd! bah!) because given the costumes and beats the immediate comparision I could think of was Kilimanjaro. Rahman modernises even that “jindalalahohoho” kinda song (sorry for political incorrectness!). And you know people say that Rahman takes time to “Get” and you have to give his music multiple listens, its because you have to re-calibrate your settings, that deepest understanding of “our music” needs to be grafted with the understanding needed for his new-age music and that is why his music takes time. Of course, we youngsters (not to mention the young at heart) are desperate to understand and be part of his music that we are willing to make the effort while the older ones just don’t have the patience and they diss him for that. For not catering to them. For making them work.
Again, I am not saying this to explain that Illai sir is bad or Rahman is good, just saying why I love both and am able to “get” both 🙂
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shaviswa
May 26, 2016
No one has replaced Raja to do this. The scene linked here is an example of Raja’s greatness. Folk at its very best.
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shaviswa
May 26, 2016
@Rahini David Kadhal Kasukkathaiya is one of his all time classics. I just love that song – especially the way he goes “Ilaiyaraja enthan paatirukku…” 😀
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Naveen
May 26, 2016
the ‘Vizhigal meeno, mozhigal theno’ one, brought into re-circulation by Spoorthi is another good song with horrible video, prabhu and nalini dancing in raja-rani costume.such a rich song
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Naveen
May 26, 2016
P, ARR was quite rural and rustic in quite a few Hindi films ( 1947, Lagaan to quote ) though not so much in Tamil ( i felt Sangaman and Kizhaku.. brought the rural part of him quite well ). so it would be unfair to brush either of them as black or white.
to gauge IR’s vast body of work is like the blind men trying to feel an elephant and understand it. for some he would be the trunk, for some a fat belly and for some the horn and so on. it is beyond any individual capacity. too early to compare any of the current bunch with him, would be unfair to them.
time will show what passes its cruel test.
we should enjoy all the good music coming. i rate 1947 ( the Hindi one not the awful Tamil rework with Prashant/Mumtaz et al ) as ARR;s best and listen to Ruth aa gayi re almost daily, along with umpteen IR, RDB, KVM, Khayyam. of course IR tops my chart
we are also skipping the fact that IR is also a lyricist, a competent Tamil literary scholar, producer and a deeply spiritual man ( like ARR ). there are many stories where directors had to change their scripts/story for the better with IR’s inputs and it worked.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 26, 2016
sravishanker140: Actually, it’s more funnier than I thought. I thought it was supposed to be the intro song of Mohan (much like ‘Odakkara Marimuthu’ from Indira), but this is something else. 🙂
Naveen: See my earlier comment about PAP.
Jagajaga: That’s true. He is the best disciple of Bhagyaraj. All those films which have been mentioned by you are ‘gems’. Aan Paavam never bores me. More than the songs, I like the flute BGM, which plays whenever Pandiyan and Seetha meet. The car scene is truly epic! And, there’s one more film where he supposedly plays an aspiring violinist, who ends up marrying his friend’s bride.
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SRS
May 26, 2016
Some ridiculous data being thrown here. Only less than 200 hit songs’aa? Dei engirndhu da varinga neenga ellam? Looks like the current gen is just a bunch of dumb idiots.
(OK, that’s a little too harsh).
I used to have a collection of Ilayaraja hits in a folder called “Eppo Venalum”. These were songs that absolutely worked everytime I listened, irrespective of what mood I arrived at it from. And it had around 700 songs. I still have that in one of those backup DVDs. Over the years I discovered a few dozen more songs that could go into that folder.
I only have this to say – Ilayaraja’s body of great work is humongous. It takes years to understand it. As you mature, you start liking some songs that did not work for you earlier. You listen to the typical “top Ilayaraja hits” and then don’t conclude immediately that this is it.
In spite of his illustrious body of work, I am afraid the ADHD generation will be a starting point for Ilayaraja fading away from public memory. This will take a few decades, maybe, but it’s a real possibility. Sad. Really sad.
Andha mobile’aa keezha vechittu, focused’aa edhavadhu pannunga da. Urupuduvinga.
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Naveen
May 26, 2016
and to say IR songs is retro is a display of ignorance and wilful negligence. there are many songs of 80/90s which sound very contemporary. Kannan Vandhu paadugiraan, ,Idhu Oru Nila Kalam, Pani Vizhum Nilavu,, Raja Raja chozhan naan, couple of NEPV ones are more starbucks than filter kaapi
and the other extreme is very spritualy energey flows down to us. Sri Ranga Ranga nathanin paadham, Pichai pathiram endhi vandhaen, janani janai, Vedam nee, Amma Endazhaikaadha Naalillaye etc.
SRS, now Mobile is evreything, most of the songs listening happens there only.
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harish ram
May 26, 2016
while we educated illiterates fight over who is better, one of them silently makes a song like this – https://youtu.be/eTqiH-fxeS8. Many questions in the comments can be closed by just this one song alone.
I also want to take this opportunity to give my two cents since everyone seems to be doing that –
I think ARR has the privilege and disadvantage of being in this era of filmmaking. This era has brought us great diversity in films of international level that aren’t bound by our old rules which has let ARR to be at his creative best. Yet, this same era isn’t producing real musicals, real village films, devotional films and what not that let IR to continuously reiterate he is the emperor of the soul. Of the limited chance ARR got to be in musicals, he has failed only once in Kaaviyathalaivan, if my memory is correct, which I will blame mainly on the director for his lack of musical sense.
Sure, he isn’t fast as IR in churning out tunes; sure his knowledge of music isn’t as deep and wide as IR’s. But that hasn’t stopped him from giving his stamp on all forms of music you can find in Indian cinema. If given a chance I will write ARR as a product of IR’s mistakes. As a newcomer, if I see any working system I always go for the odd ones and try to rectify that first. That has been ARR’s concentration in terms of music – the sound.
Where is the equivalent of KB or KV for ARR? If the argument is that IR produced gems for nobody, so did ARR. If you think IR made more melodies, then I can say KV Mahadevan’s repertoire is full of carnatic based songs.
The only problem I see with ARR at least in tamil is he isn’t getting associated with younger or at least musically inclined directors. All his movies here end up to be mega budget or mega hyped films which doesn’t give him breathing space. I am waiting for ARR+Selva combo to happen, if it can!
Anyway, 40 years of IR is a small timeframe for the kind of songs he has given us. I am sure, similar to how my father introduced me to MSV with anecdotes, I will someday in future, if I have kids, introduce them to MSV & IR.
An ARR fan/ IR admirer
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onewiththeh
May 26, 2016
Naveen:
“couple of NEPV ones are more starbucks than filter kaapi”
LOL. this comment made my day!
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P
May 27, 2016
Naveen: Not disagreeing that Rahman was rustic or rural- just that his rustic and rural never followed any template. Lagaan’s music is so distinct and unique from anything else(Virasat etc) we had heard before that in a rural setting. Same for 1947.
What I am saying is that he takes the same settings, themes and leitmotifs and redoes them in such a way as to make them sound both familiar and new/strange at the same time.
I would say that he civilizes us while connecting us to our most primal side but in these politically correct times I guess that’s not the right way to put it, so I will just say that he adds his own little touch to everything, that is uniquely distinctive.
I remember my grandma, who used to not listen to anything except MS devotional songs had one movie casette hidden among her devotional casette collection- it was Roja. And if she was passing by us as we played music on the TV or player, it was only at Rahman’s song that she would stop, her ears would perk up and she would ask “Is that….?” And we would eagerly nod our assent. As she grew older she got dementia and it was still only Rahman that got her out of her own incoherence at times, I would play a song of his and ask her “Amma, guess who’s song this is?” and she would go “Rahman a?”
🙂
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Yaja Sri
May 27, 2016
To find new singers,IR spent a some amount of time and arranged / organized events in TN cities. The singers were filtered out and selected around 50+ in each center. Spent 2 to 4 days in each city.
I was there in one center. He was giving time, building rapport and made them comfortable as much as possible. Trained from few years to 20 years in Carnatic, they struggled to sing few lines.
This information is forgotten and I see people complain against IR for not giving chances. He tried his best and if he can not find one, how it is possible to introduce new singers.
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Yaja Sri
May 27, 2016
Complaints against IR:
He did not spend time on recording quality, being prolific, team work and some time he sings himself.
Small time producers, new directors can not wait for polishing for weeks and wait for a singer to release the film. So IR also can not sit down and polish songs for weeks. If IR does not find any one to sing, IR was forced to sing. Again the same reason, budget producers can not afford to wait.
IR is gifted and talented to be prolific. We can name only few Composers currently in the world who are like IR. This should not be a complaint. That’s why we are blessed with 1000 great songs and good BGM in at least 750+ movies.
IR does not believe in a Band, so forget about the team work.
How ARR can do those: Quality recording, not prolific & spending more time on a song
ARR ONLY who worked for Big banners/big budgets/big stars only, so there is enough money to wait and polish. They can delay the movie. So quality recording. ARR is Not prolific, If I give a reason it will look like a complaint against ARR, so no comment on why he is not prolific.
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Anu
May 27, 2016
For a whole library of Raja’s technical, musical and background analysis visit this page:
http://geniusraja.blogspot.ca/
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ampulimama
May 27, 2016
I really wonder how many of the 6000+ songs folks have really heard atleast for few times before tagging IR is this, that…good in some of the areas, he sounds only raw, etc. really really wondering. unless you hear all and what he has done with good headphones, all these typecasting and arguments are waste in my opinion.
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Madan
May 27, 2016
”the urbane, the casual, the polished is the abnormal” – I agree with this as a general tendency that also sums up the generational divide but this is not where I come from. I have and still do listen to a lot of Western music and suffice it to say there’s music so ultra-sophisticated, cold even as to make Rahman sound warm as melted butter. So I don’t find the casual/urbane quality of his music abnormal; rather (for my tastes) I find it a bit laidback, at times ‘tame’ where I can just mentally switch off and chill out to the sounds rather than paying full attention. Basically to me his music sounds like Bryan Adams/Celine Dion to IR’s um I don’t know Jethro Tull, Gabriel-led Genesis, Steely Dan? So when I used the word urbane I meant it more in the easy listening, adult contemporary sense as contrasted to IR’s classic rock-like energy.
But I do get your point and it all boils down to how IR ‘engineered’ his music. He engineered it to sound like typical film music but filled all the complexity and innovation in the musical details. So on the surface it does not take much effort for a film music listener to tune into IR whereas ARR’s sound engineering was radically different …from everything made in India before then (not so radical when you have heard stuff like Talk Talk). As an avid musicophile I tend to listen ‘past’ the production and for the concept which is perhaps why after a point the production by itself (of ARR tracks) didn’t enamour me so much. But in a general sense, that’s absolutely fine. There’s no reason for film music to sound complex and Rahman’s music is fantastic for the purpose for which it is geared. Only IR could get away with making complex music because it was rarely if ever too inaccessible for the general public. It would not surprise me if it has limited appeal for the 90s and onwards generation except for cases like moi who listen to music for the music itself, just the same way as I would read a novel or watch a movie. I don’t associate myself with any particular era’s music; there’s only music that I like or dislike to varying degrees.
As for your vada pav/Starbucks opposition, I can’t abide by Starbucks but I do like Little Italy/Mainland China very much. That is that I prefer softly prepared continental cuisine rather than the overpriced stuff they peddle at Cream Center that takes hours to digest. Does that answer your question? 😉
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Madan
May 27, 2016
@ harish ram “If given a chance I will write ARR as a product of IR’s mistakes.” – An apt summation indeed.
“Where is the equivalent of KB or KV for ARR?” – Well, Duet itself was a very important film in bridging the generation gap for ARR. The until then youthu-rebel composer stepped up to the task when given a family drama. In 1994, when I was travelling from Chennai Central to KK Nagar, I noticed huge posters of Rajni/Veera along the way (including at Udhayam Theater). Veera the Rajni starrer went up against Duet which starred Prabhu in the middle of a long run of flops. I don’t know and don’t remember the fate of the film at the BO, but the music won out over Veera. It was the ‘death knell’. Veera was a pretty good soundtrack but a bit of more of the same where Duet was refreshingly different. 1994 was the ‘clean break’; after that IR’s assignments dried up and more importantly only a few backers like Fazil and an intermittent Kamal remained, cutting him off from urban A list projects by and by.
I see your point that even KB was no longer making the Sindhu Bhairavi/Unnal Mudiyum Thambi mould of films but then that’s part of the radical cultural shift Rahman ushered in. He made the Carnatic-based film song niche all but irrelevant. The closest he got was Sangamam which with all due respect isn’t really a patch on IR’s efforts in that niche.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 27, 2016
Honest Raj :
Thanks heaps for checking out the link ! 🙂 🙂
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hari ohm
May 27, 2016
Sairat reminded me how great Raja’s music is. Since seeing Sairat I have been binging on Raja’s music. Thanks for the wonderfully written article which took me on a nostalgic trip
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Rahini David
May 27, 2016
I don’t know why ARR taking very few projects is seen as a fault by some of the commenters here. It isn’t as if he has a SLA with us to deliver 50+ hits per year. Why shouldn’t he be choosy?
Also, IR never gave a promise to give 90% hits of all songs he chose to do. I am now thinking about a song that goes “oru thaaram thalayil vachhu maruthaaram pakkam vacha sivanae sivanae” from Sathi Leelavathy. It isn’t a popular song and somehow a song I hear pretty often and like it a lot. The point is, being totally in love with a non-hit song is satisfying in it’s own special way and I find more of those songs in obscure playlists. So it is great if people can dig and find their own diamond in the rough, right?
I agree completely about Veera vs Duet. Veera’s soundtrack was reassuringly old-fashioned and Duet was the in-thing.
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 27, 2016
Honest Raj :
Now you’ve certainly got me back on Pandiaraj’s trail ! Aan Paavam is probably one of the few out and out class comedies in Tamil.
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Jagajaga
May 27, 2016
@sravishankar – Really glad you brought his Tiruttumozhi! He expresses it beautifully. Chin slightly up. Eye balls making a horizontal oscillation, immediately followed-up by muttering something in his unique squeaky-cum- partly nasal voice.
@Honest raj – I think you’re talking about Manaivi Ready, where R. S, Manohar plays his dad!
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 27, 2016
Jagajaga: Yeah, Thangavelu was also a part of the cast!
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
May 27, 2016
Jagajaga :
Eloquent varnichchufying of Pandiarajan’s look !
RS Manohar – Another master of exaggeration. Unfortunately the look got permanently plastered on his visage (Rest in Peace !)
I already feel nostalgic and feel like leaving Madras and going to one of those mofussil towns where the old times must linger with uncomplicated movies like Aan Paavam
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sachita
May 27, 2016
Brangan could have just typed Illayaraja or just Ar Rahman in this article and the discussion wouldnt have been any different.
Complicateur, I am Raja and A RR fan. Admirer seems too light a word for how much I enjoy Raaja’s music. And am pretty sure that I am not an anomaly.
The Matrix comment Brangan described is how some people react when they see that people enjoy A R Rahman’s music. I have seen people use terms like brain wash/PR. So the reverse is also true.
Why is there such a strong fascination with Hit or not hit. Totally irrelevant to a person who is just listening to the music. Tons of people enjoyed the ear worm kolaveri across language barrier.
If you are 20, isnt Anirudh fan the usual description???
Also, I totally enjoy AR rahman’s 90s/2000’s music even today. Since so many people( actually it might just be couple of them repeating that point in multiple comments) have said they dont enjoy his 90s song anymore, I feel like saying it.
On the topic of improving the sound engineering, if there is a song list, I want to first add Andi Mazhai – only the initial half a minute.
One thing is clear, With MSV/Illayaraja/Ar Rahman – tamil music audience have been too spoilt. You should have been left with Anu malliks and devas.
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P
May 27, 2016
Madan=rothrocks? (confused)
Most of my comments were addressed to the latter. I find your comparisions interesting as I grew up listening to Bryan Adams and the Eagles and Elvis and Abba/Boney M and a lot of jazz standards. I was also a Carnatic music student for 15 years, so there’s that. I do find Illai sir familiar and easy to understand just like I find these bands familiar and easy- their beats are known.
I find I have to work to understand Rahman just like I have to work to understand maybe a Rachmaninoff. It is not familiar despite my musical training. But after years of recalibrating my system I learnt to appreciate Rachmaninoff. And it takes me quite a few listens to appreciate a “Maahi Ve” (Highway) or a “Ae Ajnabi” (Dil Se) or even a “Mona Gasolina” (Lingaa)- the last one has become my first thing in the morning song! I love waking up to it 😀 Even appreciating Rahman’s nasal, almost girlishly high-pitched voice took me a lonnnng looongg time 🙂
You have proved my point re: Starbucks 😉
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Yaja Sri
May 27, 2016
Rahini: Veera vs Duet!! Illogical comparison, Hero is attached to a Carnatic, conservative family.
IR’s mistake was not going for digital sounds and he believes music to sell by itself!!!
ARR’s problem is not being prolific –> “Sattiyil Irunthaa Thhan Agappayil Varum”. Sarakku illaya, not blessed, sorry.
ARR believes in Marketing big time. ARR does only for Big budget Big star big production houses, so that ARR can have less fails (Hits are not because of Quality , but marketing plays very important role which is provided by Big budget Big star big production houses )!!!
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Prasanna
May 27, 2016
When a person makes a Decision comment, he has invested in that belief. Will fight Tooth and Nail to stick to it. Will miss facts / logic / data by a yard. Why does it matter that everybody or for that matter even a single person should agree with our views. This is not about social acceptance, It is about personal indulgence.
I have enjoyed / am enjoying IR music till to date. I hate Reality music show, but have all watched all IR rounds even though the judges piss me off. I bought all the cassettes, when AR came on 90 scene, but do not listen to them now. I do not have all my favs IR song on my device, but the search is always on. Hits again are subjective. recently I discovered a gem, Unnai Edirpathen from Vanaja Girija a Crappy movie. I played it to friend, another ardent IR fan. He was not impressed. Nevertheless I listen to it on a loop on most of my drives. For me AR provided the moment to unwind, ChikkuBukku, Taxi Taxi were such numbers. Nowadays Anirudh provides me that Fizz when I need it. Tomorrow somebody else. But When I get back to living room, There is always SPB, Swarnalatha etal churning out a IR track, for which I not only hum the lyrics, but also hum the music.
A lot has been talked about IR,s attitude, Need to get rid of the Hugo effect. A Good musician provides Good music. Savor it. If you are adopting him or marrying into his family Look for a character certificate.
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JPhilip
May 27, 2016
Here i am :a Malayalee,always jealous that the Tamils produce these supremely talented musicians,MSV,IR,ARR and dare I say it Santosh Narayan and you guys get to fight over which one’s better? Not fair.
I am not wise enough to mediate between the relative merits of IR and ARR but as an ‘outsider’ I always reckoned ARR’s soundscapes revolutionized Indian film music and connected with a much larger non Tamil audience. IR captures in his notes the smells and the soul of the Tamils and has-generally speaking-less appeal to us. Judging between their music otherwise is nigh impossible otherwise: dont they both use the same raagas??!!!
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Sanjay Shankar (@sanjayshankar)
May 27, 2016
@Rahini David: Thanks for the Kaadhal Kasakuthaiya link. I LOVE that song, esp how the charanam is structured. IMHO, IR’s background themes for that movie stand right up there along with his best for Mani Ratnam & KB.
As for liking non-hits, some of my favorite ‘non-hit’ songs include dirges like ‘sola pasungiliye’ from ‘En Raasavin Manasile’, a song that didn’t get as many plays as something like ‘Kuyil Paattu’.
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brangan
May 27, 2016
Prasanna: Unnai Edirpathen from Vanaja Girija a Crappy movie…
Swarnalatha. What a voice. Her association with Raja (oorandangum saamathile, ennai thottu) was a short-lived treat. Her early passing was one of the great tragedies of modern music.
Wrote a bit about her in this post:
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 27, 2016
Veera is an outright Telugu masala movie made in Tamil. Heck, even the BGM (that plays whenever the ‘dummy’ villain appears onscreen) somewhat resembles that of his Telugu films like Stuartpuram Police Station and Killer. One should not forget that ARR gave duds like Pudhiya Mannargal and Super Police, alongside Duet!
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Madan
May 27, 2016
@ P: Yup, same guy. And now that Kadakumar is out of the discussion, I can revert back to my real name (rothrocks is my wordpress user id and all comments from mobile get posted in that id only).
Very interesting that you say you had to train yourself to appreciate Rahman. My father has always said he needs to listen a few times to let Rahman songs grow on him. I have never experienced that, esp not the 90s stuff (since you mentioned Ae Ajnabi). But then, likewise, I don’t get Led Zeppelin very much at all though I like a lot of music that’s much more complex. I guess complexity has very little to do with it in that case; it’s just whether you can relate to a composer’s internal logic and how soon (after a point it doesn’t seem worth the effort). I am very curious as to what was the one thing/things that finally clicked for you in his music as opposed to before. Re Ilayaraja, yes, the structure and the melodic lines are templated but it’s the harmony, esp the amazing basslines that I am most interested in. Once that is taken into account, it’s like listening to a different composer. I swear he could put most prog rock guys to shame with the basslines he composes.
Also interesting you mentioned Rachmaninoff because Ilayaraja considers him an underrated composer. I like the band Muse whose frontman/keyboardist/guitarist Matt Bellamy is strongly influenced by that composer.
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Madan
May 27, 2016
“ARR does only for Big budget Big star big production houses, so that ARR can have less fails” – And that’s absolutely fine. I echo what Rahini said; I don’t see that as something wrong. I would just be happier if he spared people the silly “I don’t want to do 30 movies a year because it’s not my share” jibes. Again, I am NOT getting into a comparison here; I know IR has also said many ungracious things.
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Naveen
May 27, 2016
IR’s body of work is so vast that it is like star gazing on a dark sky, the more you see the more stars you spot. i love the below ones, extremely good ones, cant trace the movies or stars
we can keep counting forever
call whomsoever with whatever title, IR is above all that. ppl have given him avplace too high to reach easily, i love all good music ( ARR, GVP, Anirudh, ghibran, Harris, Santosh etc), but they have to prove a lot more to be spoken on par with IR. yes Tamil music went national in a viral way with ARR. If Roja music had happened to be in a hollywood production, it would have been oscar worthy. seriously Jai Ho was just a rehash or his Ella Pugazhum oruvan oruvanuke, done originally for that Vijay movie. Taal or Dilse had much better music than Slm dog stuff.
btw, happened to see 24 today…better to not talk about it, not here anyway. how did they manage to get so many thing wrong together
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sachita
May 28, 2016
Yaja Sri: “Hits are not because of Quality , but marketing plays very important role which is provided by Big budget Big star big production houses )!!!”
As some one who has enjoyed quite a bit of Rahman music, to say that I and other people like it only because of marketing how absurd does it sound? From school days when I first heard Roja to this day, I do track most of his music when it releases and listen to it. I havent liked some but enjoyed quite a bit of it.
BR described Matrix for those mocking illayaraja;s music fans. And here you are doing the reverse.
What about people liking Rahman’s music just the way they like Illayaraja’s music is incomprehensible /unfathomable to you?
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complicateur
May 28, 2016
JPhilip: Between Baburaj, Raveendran, Johnson, Ouseppachan, Bombay Ravi, Salil Choudhary (and not to mention Raaja/MSV themselvles) there wasn’t that much of a need to be wistful for Malayalam music lovers. Now Hindi film post RDB… they had great reason to be wistful.
Anyway here is a random exercise to look at just how prolific Raja was. Pick an on screen artist (any on screen artist of substance) and look at what he has produced for them. Since Vanaja Girija came up, let’s consider Mohini – From her first film Eeramaana RojaavE (Adho Megha Oorvalam, etc..) / Aditya 369 till Innathe Chinthavishayam Raja has given her so MANY gems (manassiloru poomala in her final film). And this is an artist who had arguably a moderately successful career. My favorite results have been with Janakaraj (Eduthu naan vidavaa, Kaathal enbathu pothu udamai).
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Madan
May 28, 2016
Oru Kadhal Enbadhu is Chinna Thambi Peria Thambi. Starring Prabhu, Nadiya and, I think, Sathyaraj. Officially credited to Gangai but Gangai himself said in a programme that it was a ‘leftover’ IR composition.
Malayoram Mayile is Prabhu and Radhu, also starring Sivakumar and Rahman. Film Oruvar Vaazhum Aalayam.
Rest don’t ring a bell, damn, must check out! 🙂
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brangan
May 28, 2016
sachita: I agree. To say tha Rahman’s success is due to marketing is laughable. Some people have even told me that Rahman’s music isn’t music because he uses technology more than live instruments. 😀
But I guess this is why the Raja-Rahman debates get so weird. Because both sides end up making ridiculous statements.
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Madan
May 28, 2016
Right, here’s a tentative and incomplete list of IR hits/good songs from 1976-1993. Only Tamil songs (because I am not familiar with much of his Telugu work, esp 80s) and where the song has more than one version in a film, I have counted only one. It is a pretty conservative list even if what is or is not a hit/good song can be debated until the cows come home. I stopped at 500 but as the above emphasises, the list has the potential to be much longer and I welcome all contributions to that effect.
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Madan
May 28, 2016
Marketing helped Rahman AFTER he had become a pan-India success (i.e. post Dil Se). Vande Mataram was a marketing coup (not that Maa Tujhe Salaam is not a great song). So I’d liken that to the Mark Masceranhas effect on Sachin’s career, whereby now the fanboys cannot even entertain the possibility that perhaps somebody like Richards may have been at least as good a batsman as SRT. We do not know how much (more) fellato would have been splattered on IR/Richards if they had enjoyed similar marketing (and let’s get this straight once and for all; theirs WAS a marketable product). But Rahman’s SUCCESS, as in the case of SRT, was all of his making. Can you imagine, somebody in the early 90s setting up his own studio and also producing a better sound (to put it very mildly) than everybody else? It is well past the point where we can debate whether Rahman has really earned it. And esp in these Anirudh-infested times, we should at least be grateful he stops by once in a while to score in Tamil. Raja is getting old; who will carry the baton when he’s done?
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Naganaga
May 28, 2016
BR, you should curate a few YouTube lists, and if you already do, please post links here. I have been youtubing every song mentioned in your article as well as the songs mentioned in the comments thread as of the time of this writing, and I have to say this has been a Saturday well spent!
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Naveen
May 28, 2016
hi Madan, marketing and PR are critical in every field in this age. and film indusry is purely for-profit industry where the decisions makers ( say the producer who ultimately says ok to a project ) may be the least creative or informed. pre 1990s a good music will ge attention even with the limited channels for audio distribution. that is where probably the IR stamp was very critical to sell movies. this is is same industry where silk smitha songs and Koundamani jokes were spoke on the lines of IR music for selling a movie. satellite rights play a large part in movie budget and stars nowadays, most acute in malayalam. as ARR music has already been marketed well so far, a producer looking at returns alone may opt for ARR. it was not easy for GVM to get IR for NEPV.selling is the key. Shankar is smart that way, though he tried harris successfuly for Anniyan, given the evergrowing hype and numbers of his movies, he had to keep aRR held in his wraps.
during kadal release times, MR had mentioned that working with IR is an inspiriting moment, he said if u give one situation u will get 10 good tunes and u have to really choose. he said he will work with IR again if he finds something that can inspire IR enough to make it a challenging movie for IR
talent is probably not in the top 3 in deciding who works for whom. ofcourse the end product has to be good enough for ppl to grow up with and still not grow out of , over decades and cherish.
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Naganaga
May 28, 2016
Aha, thank you, thank you, thank you, Senthill Sundaram:
Nicely labelled as well. Yaam Petra inbam vayyagamum Peruga.
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Utkal
May 28, 2016
I have already mentioned how I went about compiling my collection of Best of Ilayaraja 1,2. 3 & 4. But out of his 1000 films I must have at best listened to 50 or so to make my compilation. So here is a challenge to all of you Raja lovers. If you had to convey the sense of Raja’s greatness to someone who has never heard him what are the ten songs you would choose to introduce Raja to him with? I know there are 6000 songs, but still it should not be impossible. There are even more films, but people make a list of their Top Ten films. Tagore wrote and compsed for more than 2000 songs, and I can still maqke my list of Tagore Top 10. So your Top Ten Raja songs please. I would be much grateful. ( If there is a consensus, you can make it Top 20, but no more than that.)
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Madan
May 28, 2016
@ Naveen I don’t disagree with your comment in general but I was responding to Yaja Sri’s claim of Rahman being all marketing and hype. The Rahman name as a guarantee of success, which you speak of, happened only after he established himself with his initial successes, going from a jingle guy to the top film music director of the 90s. It’s the same journey IR also traversed. IR’s name wasn’t an assurance of success circa Annakilli. That happened much later.
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Madan
May 28, 2016
@ Utkal
Mine, as of today and this moment, would be:
Mandram Vandha Thendralukku (Mouna Raagam)
Oru Poongavanam (Agni Natchatram)
Rojavai Thalatum Thendral (Ninaivellam Nithya)
Idhu Oru Ponmalai Pozhuthu (Nizhalgal)
Idhazhil Kadhai (Unnal Mudiyum Thambi)
En Iniya Pon Nilave (Moodupani)
Sundari Neeyum (Michael Madana Kamarajan)
Kodiyile Malliga Poo (Kadalora Kavithaigal)
Ayiram Thamarai (Alaigal Oyvathile)
Bhoopaalam Isaikkum (Thooral Ninnu Pochu)
There are so many others but I have also tried to make the list representative and cover the gamut of moods and styles in his music, to the extent possible in 10 songs. My 10 FAVOURITE songs might be a different list but that’s not the question that was asked.
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Rahini David
May 28, 2016
Utkal: I was already planning to do the same. I will try to put in songs very different from each other as much as I could.
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KayKay
May 28, 2016
Utkal, my (own very personal ) Top 10, as in Raja songs that I NEVER tire of:
1) Panivizhum Malarvanam (Ninaivellam Nithya)
2) Pon Malai Pozhudhu (Nizhalgal)
3) Adukku Malli (Avaram Poo)
4) Mayile Mayile (Kadavul Amaitha Medai)
5) Kadhalin Deepam Ondru (Thambikku Endha Ooru)
6) En Iniya Pon Nilave (Moodu Pani)
7) Poove Ilaya Poove (Kozhi Koovudhu)
8) Sundari Neeyum (Michael Madhana Kama Rajan)
9) Pothi Vacha Malligai Mottu (Mann Vasanai)
10) Pacha Mala Poovu (Kizhakku Vasal)
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KayKay
May 28, 2016
Oh, and I realize you were asking 10 songs that would convey Raja’s greatness. I can’t separate that with my all-time favourite numbers, because to me, those DO convey his greatness
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Rahini David
May 28, 2016
Ilayaraja and others who defined the 80s.
1) Kadhalin Deepam Ondru (Thambiku Entha Ooru) – For Rajinikanth
2) Nadha Vinothangal (Salangai Oli) – For Kamalhasan
3) Ilaya nila (Payanangal Mudivathilai) – For Mike Mohan
4) Kanea Kalai Maanea (Moondraam Pirai) – For Kanadhasan
5) Keladi Kanmani (Pudhu Pudhu Arthangal) – For Vaali
6) Ithu Oru Pon Maalai Pozhuthu (Nizhalgal) – For Vairamuthu
7) Paadariyean Padipariyean (Sindhu Bairavi) – For K.Balachandar
8) En Iniya Pon Nilavea (Moodu Pani) – For Balu Mahendra
9) Anjali Anjali Anjali (Anjali) – For Mani Ratnam
10) Rasavea Unna (Mudhal Mariyathai) – For Barathiraja
11) Poovea Poochudava (Poovea Poochudava) – For Fazil
12) Neathu Raathiri Amma (Sagalakala Vallavan) – For Silk Smita
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brangan
May 29, 2016
A random list of ten that could change tomorrow… in the sense that this is not a top-ten but more of a top ten that i feel like right now:
Bonus track:
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complicateur
May 29, 2016
Utkal: I will not be able to do top 10/20 songs. But I can definitely do top 10 /20 albums – Entire albums that demonstrate the genius of the man. Here goes:
Guru (Malayalam)
Hey Raam (Hindi / Thamizh)
Kalapani (Malayalam)
Agni Nakshathram (Thamizh)
Vaidehi KaathirunthaaL (Thamizh) – The urban legend around this album is IR fan folklore
PayaNangaL Mudivathillai (Thamizh)
Idhaya Kovil (Thamizh)
Avataram (Thamizh)
Satya (Thamizh)
Sadma (Hindi)
Shiva (Hindi)
Johnny (Thamizh)
NeethaanE en Pon Vasantham (Thamizh)
April 1 Viduthala (Telugu)
Janma Janmada Anubandha (Kannada)
Pallavi Anupallavi (Kannada)
Eera Vizhi KaviyangaL (Thamizh)
Rudraveena (Telugu)
Abhinandana (Telugu)
Swarna Kamalam (Telugu)
Nadodi Thendral (Thamizh) – IMO the best album in 1992 in Thamizh cinema. Yes I know Roja was released that year. So was ThEvar Magan.
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complicateur
May 29, 2016
Oh yea – Bonus album much like Baradwaj: Sembaruthi (Thamizh) – On of my ‘go to’s for greatest emotional highs and lows. If I had to pick ONE song for just diversity of musical ideas it would have to be Thattaram Mozhi from Guru (the first album on the list). It starts in such a different place than it ends and has so many musical ideas along the way…
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MANK
May 29, 2016
Utkal, for me the beauty and greatness of ilayaraja’s compositions is how well he uses or manipulates the several ragas and simplify them so that common man could identify with them. 3 of my favorite ragas happen to be mohanam,Kalyani and hamsadhvani and there has never been another composer who created masterpieces in these ragas as ilayaraja – save for the malayalam musical genius Raveendran, who was a master of hamsadhvani- and so i would just list out 10 of those raga based compositions of ilayaraja from both tamil and malayalam which are my favorites and which i think push the envelope vis a vis the usage of these ragas.
Mohanam
ninnukkori varnam (Agninakshathram): don’t think mohanam ever gets better than this
Oru Thanga Rathathil -dharma yuddham : perhaps not IR’s best, but i dont know i just love this song.
Vaan Pole Vannam\vaarmegha varnante(Sagara sangamam\silangalil oli): of all the 3 versions of it – telugu,tamil, malyalam, i like the mal version best as i think it has the best lyrics.
*hamsadhvani *
Sreerangaranga nadhanin padham(Mahanadhi):Actually a combination of mohanam and hamsadhvani .
Valittezuthiya neelakadakkanil meeno(onnanu nammal-malayalam): one of his best hamsadhvani compositions IMO, he had done a version of this as ‘Terkondu vandavan’ in enukkul oruvan, but this is even better
Nila kayum meham ( Chembaruthi)
Kalyani
.Poonkaattinodum(poomuga padiyil nineyum kathu): super composition in Kalyani. beautifully sung KJY. one of my all time favorite mal songs.
.Vandaal Mahaalakshmiye (uyirntha ullam)
.Sundari Kannal Oru Seidhi(thalapathi) : , only Ilayaraja can take the Kalyani and turn it into western symphony.
. Vellai Pura Ondru(pudhu kavithai): i like the sad version more.
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Srinivas R
May 29, 2016
Utkal, my favorite Raja songs right at this moment..
Madai thiranthu ( nizhalgal)
Thenpandi cheemayile ( nayakan)
Janani janani ( Sankarcharya biopic, don’t know the film’s name (
Ilamai idho idho ( SA Kalakaua vallavan)
Poomaalai vaangi Vandana ( Sindhu bhairavi )
Isayil thodanguthama ( hey ram)
Elangathu vresudhey ( pithamagan)
Ilaya nila ( don’t remember the movie name )
Vikram ( Vikram )
10.Poongatru pudhidhanathu ( Moondram Pirai)
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Srinivas R
May 29, 2016
Too many typos in previous comment, hope it makes sense
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MANK
May 29, 2016
And just to randomly list my favorite from other ragas
Andhi mazhai pozhigirudhu(Raajaparvai)
2.Thamarakkili padunnu(moonam pakkam)
Toongada vizhigal – Agninatchattiram
Nan oru (Sindhu bhairavi)
5.Puzhayorathil(Adharvam)
6.Kadhalin deepam
Endhan Nenjil Neengaadha(Kalaingan)
8.Panivizhum – Ninaivellam Nitya
9.Raatiriyil( Tanga Magan)
10.oru naalum (yejaman)
And not to pour oil on fire, but i wonder whether ARR has this range when handling the classical ragas. Make no mistake, i grow up with ARR’S music and i think he is an unqualified musical genius , but i just wonder whether IR score over ARR when employing the classical ragas in songs
P.S. – Brangan, its shocking, i dont like any of the songs from your top 10 list 🙂
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blurb
May 29, 2016
I LOVE LOVE LOVE the idea of starting the top 10s! THANKS to everyone who posted (and future posters)! I’m reminded of so many long forgotten gems (forgotten by me, that is 🙂 )
SENORITA FROM JHONNY! WHAT A SONG!
I vote for revisiting this thread every 6 months and updating everyone’s list! 🙂
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Raghavan Rengachari
May 29, 2016
been thoroughly enjoying the comments, and came here just to leave my top 10, in no particular order, and of course, momentary. adding YT links for convenience.
andharangam yAvumE –
oru vAnavil pOlE –
viidhaitha vidhai –
en gAnam indru arangErum –
Athu mEttula –
adi peNNE –
nEthu orutharu –
Ram Ram –
kAdellAm pichippoovu –
en kaNmaNI en kAdhali –
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vittethi
May 29, 2016
I always feel Raja’s urbane songs get a raw deal even from his most diehard fans. I personally find some really intricate orchestration in such songs. Here is a “random” 🙂 sample of such songs.
Vikram…Vikram (Vikram)
Hey ..Unnaithaane (Kadhal Parisu)
Vaanam Keezhe (Thoongadhe Thambi Thoongaddhe)
Kurangu Kaiyil Maalai (Mumbai Express)
Poo potta dhavani (Kaakhi Chattai)
Pottu Vaitha Kadhal Thittam (Singaravelan)
Maharajonodu Rani Vandhu (Sathi Leelavathi)
Kokarako Kozhi (Kalaignan)
Solla Solla Enna Inimai (Ellame Inba Mayam)
1 2 3 4 now (Punnagai Mannan)
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lakshmi
May 29, 2016
Some of the songs I never get tired of :
Raman aandalum – Mullum malarum
Vizhiyil en vizhiyil – Ram Lakshman(I love the beginning and the chorus bit before the 2nd stanza)
Endhan kannil – Guru
Hey oraaiyiram – Meendum Kokila
Adada maamara killiyae – Chittukuruvi
Sorgam madhuvilae – Chattam en kayil
Pattu kannam thottu kolla – Kaaki chattai
Mudhal mudhalaaga kadhal duet – Niram maaraadha pookal
Megam karukkaiyile – Vaidehi kaathirundhaal
Metti oli kaatrodu en nenjai – I don’t know the name of the movie
Seer kondu vaa – Naan paadum padal
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satishkvasan
May 29, 2016
At this moment
1. Naguva Nayana ( Kannada )
2. Poongathave (Nizhalgal)
3. Janani Janani
4. Santhoshekku ( Shankar Nag movie)
5. En iniya pon nilave
6. Valaiyosai
7. En Kanmani ( chittu Kuruvilla )
8. Poo malaiye (Pagal Nilavu)
9. Hai Zindagi gale laga le (Sadma)
10. Mandram Vanda (Mouna Ragam)
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Naganaga
May 29, 2016
Loving the top tens, each a wonderful playlist for ages! Someone made a comment on paying to make mix tapes. Here’s a wonderful resource!
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Naveen
May 29, 2016
my few more cents pls, trying to add what might not be in others’ typical top 10/20 lists
1. Neramidhu neramidhu
2. Hridaya Rangoli – Pallavi Anu Pallavi
3. Nagu Endhidhe – Pallavi Anu Pallavi
4. Naguva Nayana, madhura mouna – Pallavi Anu Pallavi
5. Idh Oru Nilakalam – Tik Tik Tik
6. Saami kia sooli oru – Aavarampoo
7. Mandhiram idhu – Avarampoo
8. Pichai Pathiram endhi vandhaen – Nan Kadavul
9. Veetu veetu vasapadi venum – ?
10. to 14. All songs from Vaiidehi kathirunthaal ( Azhagu malar aada, Indraiku en indha anandame, rasathi unna, megham karukaiyile pulla )
17. Uravugal Thodarkathai – Aval Avaadithaan
18 Manjal nilavu, indru ore sugam – ?
19 Kana karunguyile – Sethu
20. Yen jodi manjakurvi – Vikram
definitely the list can go on and on
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brangan
May 29, 2016
MANK: This is seriously the first time I’m hearing a Raja fan saying they don’t like Meendum meendum vaa and Neethane en ponvasantham 🙂
But I guess that’s what music is. Even within a broad like, we can have many mutual dislikes.
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Madan
May 29, 2016
@ Brangan: I know, esp Ninaivellam Nithya is just full of must haves. I excluded Neethane only because I wanted to keep it to one song per film. I had thought of Meendum Meendum Vaa and excluded it. I guess Solai Kuyile, Naan Erikkarai are also ‘classics’.
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sanjana
May 29, 2016
Ae Zindagi Gale Laga Le. This song has style, heart and melody.
This one song is enough to showcase. They say just one grain of rice is enough to see whether the rice is cooked or not.
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Madan
May 29, 2016
@ MANK: I haven’t sat down and parsed what all ragas both composers have used and in what all ways but I guess his sheer prolificity by itself gives IR a mile and a half over ARR. It’s not just the variety of ragas but his mastery in using them in different ways. If we just take Mohanam, he can go from Ninnu Korri (which is a very standard treatment masked by awesome Western fusion) to Vandhadhey’s folk-classical hybrid. And that is just one example from one raga, we could do this for nearly all the ragas he has used. And he has used nearly all the ragas available for use. Not just over ARR, I think IR scores over the Hindi/Tamil oldies greats too in melody, if defined from the perspective of versatility and range in handling ragas. As for the appeal of the melodies, that’s a much more subjective discussion to do with individual tastes. Speaking of which, Nil Nil Nil Badhil Sollu is one of my all time favourites for raga handling; just an incredible tune, esp the charanam.
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lakshmi
May 29, 2016
complicateur: +1 for Swarna kamalam and Abhinandana
Have you listened to the songs from Bobbili Raja (Telugu)? All are fun and peppy songs.
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ampulimama
May 29, 2016
its not a cliche to say that its impossible to pick top 10 in the ocean of maestro..anyway, few songs coming to mind at the moment…I can put together number of such lists which are mutually exclusive to each other
Uravenum puthiya vaanil – Nenjathai killaathe
Paattu Inge – Poovishi Vaasalile
Manitha manitha – Kan Sivanthaal Man Sivakkum
Mathura marikkozhundhu vaasam – Enga ooru paattukkaran
Athikaalai nerame – Meendum oru kaadhal kathai
En iniya pon nilaave – Moodu Pani
Chinna chinna vannakuyil – Mouna Ragam
Poove poochudavaa (Yesudas version) – Poove poochadavaa
Hey oraayiram – Meendum Kokila
Thalaiyai Kuniyum – Oru odai nathiyaagirathu
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Madan
May 29, 2016
Top urban/urbane songs:
Oru Poongavanam (Agni..)
Ilaya Nila (Payanangal Mudivathile)
Kannan Vandhu (Rettai Vaal Kuruvi)
Thodadha Taalam (Anand)
Idhu Oru Nila (Tic Tic Tic)
Ponmeni Uruguthey/Vanengum (Moondram Pirai)
Day by Day (Honest Raaj)
Kalvane (Megha)
Siva Rathiri (Michael Madana Kamarajan)
Vanithamani (Vikram)
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sriram
May 29, 2016
1) Senthura poove – 16 vayathinile
2) Ninaivo oru paravai – sivappu rojakkal
3) Katril enthan geetham – Jonny
4) Chinnan chiru vayathil – Meendum Kokila
5) Unnakenna Mele Nindrai – Simla Special
6) Azhage Azhagu – Rajaparvai
7) Anthimazhai – Rajaparvai
8) Thalattude Vaanum – Kadal meengal
9) Ramanin Mohanam – Nettrikan
10) Ithu Oru pon malai pozhuthu – Nezhalgal
11) Enna Satham entha neram – Punnaigai Mannan
12) Ilamai ennum poongathru – ??
thanks to all participants for this memorable exchange.
over the 6 years i have stayed in rural TN, there is ONLY raja. and incidentally hardly any of the top 10’s listed above are ever played 🙂
br – we met at roy’s party 🙂
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Rahini David
May 29, 2016
BR: And it does have a lot to do with the year we were born in. I think people your age will like your top 10 more than mine and vice versa.
And 100 hits max? This thread is now like a museum that everyone can display their own collectibles.
Roja is going to be 25 very soon. Maybe we will be making arr top 10 next year. 😜
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Aravindan
May 29, 2016
I would like to gently remind everyone that we haven’t even discussed background score yet. Jeyamohan wrote about it quite effectively and it’s no ordinary feat to change the way films are presented and absorbed. And it is more work to write score for a film than to compose songs. And he did for every film. That’s extra-ordinary commitment and dedication.
Of course, people will differ in their opinions about what a film score should do or shouldn’t do. But I have always been aided by his score and I still react very well to them. There are a hundred movies to quote but I will go with this bit as it is somewhat special. I haven’t even seen the movie Alapana, haven’t even seen a video of it and yet these tracks feel complete – i can imagine them meeting and falling in love. This is making an appealing piece of score, offering variations of it and incorporating context. All in a day’s work.
[audio src="http://solvanam.com/wp-content/uploads/ir_rail/Aalapana_MainTheme.mp3" /]
[audio src="http://solvanam.com/wp-content/uploads/ir_rail/Aalapana_SwingWaltz.mp3" /]
[audio src="http://solvanam.com/wp-content/uploads/ir_rail/Aalapana_Carnatic.mp3" /]
(taken from http://solvanam.com/?p=1299)
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Vighnesh Hampapura
May 29, 2016
Picking top ten from the genius is a difficult task. However, the songs I never get bored of, not in any particular order (and I’m a classical-type) :
Nee Oru Kaadal – Nayagan
Naguva Nayana – Pallavi Anupallavi
Tiruvasagam (complete album)
Paadariyen – Sindhubhairavi
Thakita Thadimi – Sagara Sangamam
Idarinum – Tharai Thappattai (isn’t this Shubapantuvarali?)
Per Vacchalum – MMKR
Hele Kogile – Nammura mandara Hoove
Hey Ram (complete album)
Srirangaranganathanim – Mahanadi
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filmarcher
May 29, 2016
@Mr.Rangan : I am commenting here for the first time, though your blog has been part of my daily routine for over a year and a half now.
I discovered the following song thanks to your blogpost about your take on lyrics being poetry set to music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNjtrvFTMiw
It’s now one of my favorites along with the others.
I’m happy you mentioned Kannan oru kai kuzhandhai on your list today. The song, along with Kaetaelle ange hold a special place in my heart, as it is not only from the Maestro’s 2nd foray into film music, but it’s also from one of the most successful films directed and produced by my grandfather. I sometimes feel the melody Kannan oru kai kuzhandhai is not recalled as much as songs from other movies and that makes me sad. So thank you for including it in your list today. It made my day. Another classic I love is Thaalaatudhey vaanam from Kadal meengal. I agree that better sound engineering in the last 15 years has made his music even more phenomenal, if that is even possible.
My heartfelt thanks for this post.
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KayKay
May 29, 2016
MANK, thanks for that shout out to the Onnana Nammal song. I have a personal fondness for Hamsadhwani and at least to my knowledge, Raja hasn’t composed a great deal in this raaga (Composer Raveendran on the other hand, had an absolute fondness for it), so the few numbers he did, I grasp at greedily. Vallitezhuthiya is an amazing song, so deceptively simple but requiring intricate modulations throughout and “Das-Ettan” just knocked it outta the park!
Another Hamsadhwani gem from Raja (Wish the female vocalist wasn’t the terminally nasal Jency but SPB’s voice is pure Aural Nectar):
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 29, 2016
A random pick, in no particular order though:
‘Senthaazaham Poovil’ – Mullum Malarum
‘Senorita’ – Johnny
‘Ponmeni Uruguthey’ – Moondram Pirai
‘Chinnanchiru Kiliyae’ – Mundhanai Mudichu
‘Kannil Enna Kaarkalam’ – Un Kanni Neer Vazhinthaal
‘Keeravani’ – Anveshana/Paadum Paravaigal
‘Idhazhil Kathai Ezhudhum’ – Unnal Mudiyum Thambi
‘Sorgathin Vaasarpadi’ – Unnaicholli Kutramillai
‘Maniyae Manikuyilae’ – Nadodi Thendral
‘Kurukku Paathaiyile’ – I Love India
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P
May 29, 2016
Loving these lists. Thank you all!
Wow: Satishkvasan, you remembered Santoshakke! ❤ that one. Though I never watched Kannada movies, this was played in autos all the time. And SPB! GOLD! 😀 The video was pure 80s awesomeness.
madan: To answer your question about re-calibration, so when Dil Se’s album released i was in like 6th or 7th standard ok, so my obvious favorite was Chaiyya Chaiyya because it was dance and fun (even though I now realized it had some complicated lyricing and riffs going on) and I never understood Ae Ajnabi- I was like- oh, this is a mom song, rona dhona, blabla. I was not taken to watch the movie cause mom didn’t want me to see SRK (umm, hello, I was an SRK maniac) in love with a terrorist, so I had no context.
But as I kept listening to it everytime over and over again- we were not allowed to forward/rewind the casette, so had to listen to the entire album to go back to Chaiyya Chaiyya- the initial beats of the drum kinda got to me, and first I was annoyed, like why is Rahman doing this the “wrong” way, as in the beats and Kavita’s voice did not “align” in the way I wanted them to be- as in the traditional way, but I slowly realized that the un-alignment was what gave it it’s haunting quality and when I finally watched the movie (as an adult) I realized that it was what he understood that moment to be, it was a haunting moment- like if you watch the movie, Manisha’s character is “haunted” by SRK’s character to such an extent through that song on the radio, that she actually turns it off in an almost panic.
I hope I articulated that properly and gave you an understanding of the inner-workings of my stupid mind 🙂
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P
May 29, 2016
HAVE to add one more from Geetha (which is a brilliant album!) but isn’t Jotheyali so much better than the Hindi reworking in Cheeni Kum – Jaane Do Na?
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 29, 2016
P: Jotheyalli>Vizhiyiliae>Jaane Do Na
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MANK
May 29, 2016
Brangan, oh yeah, Diversity in Unity :). on second thoughts dislike is rather strong word. i admire those 2 songs, but doesn’t have that much affection that’s all.
oh btw, this post is for the ages. i suppose we can have a similair silver jubilee post on ARR next year
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 29, 2016
‘Aye Zindagi’ was probably his first ‘original’ song in Hindi. It was later reused in Thambikku Endha Ooru as ‘En Vaaniley’!
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KayKay
May 29, 2016
Sriram, hate to be a pedant, but “Unakenna Mele Nindral” (Simla Special) is an MSV composition
Aravindan, speaking of Raja’s background scores, a personal favorite of mine is “Kavari Maan”.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 29, 2016
Madan: Day by Day from Honest Raj – you mean the Captain starrer or is it some kinda album?
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Madan
May 29, 2016
@ P: Interesting and I somehow guessed it would be about Ae Ajnabi. Funny that I liked the song more then than now. I still like the composition but I find the Hindi lyrics very awkward in terms of meter. Udit Narayan does grapple with some of the words and understandably so. I have that problem with many of the songs that were originally composed for Tamil and reused for Hindi or even simultaneously for both languages. It may be heresy to say so given the reputation they enjoy, but I really don’t think Rahman should have worked so extensively with Gulzar and Javed Akhtar. I thought Mehboob did a great job on Bombay and wonder why Rahman didn’t work more with him.
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Madan
May 29, 2016
@ Honest Raj: Yup, the Captain film. Also has the hit Katuren Katuren.
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satishkvasan
May 29, 2016
I never liked this Kizakku Vasal song till I learnt the “inspiration” behind the song.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=al1suu8j2II
What an adaptation of western classical to Tamil folk!
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satishkvasan
May 29, 2016
P – talking of Geetha, you also have Kelade nimageega !
And just today, out of the blue, the car system played, “Pottri padadi penne” from Thevar Magan ! The ghatam, the voice, the way the song flows!
Thanks everyone for sharing your favs. Realised that I haven’t heard Raja at all and I keep listening to him all the time! As BR says, lot more to dig..
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Naveen
May 29, 2016
pls include these too, if any done so already
1. Poonthalir Aada – Avarampoo
2. Adukku malli eduthuu vachu – Avarampoo
3. Aatukutty muttai ittu – Kalyanaraman
4. Chinna poo chinna poo – meednum kaylayanaraman
5. Nilavu thoongum neram – Kungumachimizh
6. Germanyin Pon then nilave – Ullasa paravaigal
7. dheyveega raagam, kektaadha padal – Ullasa paravaigal
8. bala kanaka – Salangai Oli/Sagara Sangamam
9.dharisanam kidaikaadha – Alaigal oyvadhillai
10. Naan thedum sevvanthi pooidhu – dharmapathini
11. Enadhu vizhi vazhi mele, kanavu pala vizhimele – solla thudikudhu manasu
12. Kalyana vennila -?
13, aatama therottama – captain prabhakaran
14. karpoora bommai ondru – keladi kanmani
15. Sograme endraalum, namooru pola varuma
16. oru jeevan azhaithadhu – ?
17. Aathadi paavada kaathada – ?
18. Amudhe thamizhe – koyil puram
19. Kai vachalu, vakka ponalum malli vaasam – apoorva sahodharargal?
20 Nee Pournami, en vaazhvile –
it can go on and on
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brangan
May 29, 2016
Madan: On the contrary, I feel Ae ajnabi is one of Rahman’s greatest songs, one of Udit Narayan’s finest hours — and the words are fantastic. The “meter” thing is probably Gulzar’s style, which is there even in the RD Burman songs. But it works for me because it subverts the tradition that the syllabic count of words in line-pairs have to be the same (so that the pauses in the music are the same, the beats fall at the same place etc). This song just tears through my heart every time I listen to it — a rare combination of lyricist, composer and singer all acing it.
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Naveen
May 29, 2016
BR, it could be due to the parallel tamil-hindi making. unlike shankar’s movies, where the sound just gets transported with crazy lyrics, MR ensure he gets the best to write as good as or better than the tamil part. for Bombay and Dil Se, tough to say if the Hindi version was better or the tamil one. every artist was at his/her best ( chithra/kavitha krishnamurty, sukhwinder sign, shankar mahadevan, gulzar/variamuthu et al ). i fav of ARR has to be dil se or bombay, so far
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Madan
May 29, 2016
Brangan: Yeah, I agree, the meter thing is there in RDB-Gulzar songs too, which is why I prefer his work with Majrooh and Anand Bakshi. I just don’t like awkward meter. Gulzar sometimes doesn’t even write enough words for the line and I find that very off putting. I get that there has to be some space in the lyrics for the singer to override the backbeat a little and all that but somebody like Majrooh was able to do that just fine while also not forcing the singer to awkwardly extend words/syllables. Speaking of RD, you can even find an example of this Gulzar thing in Musafir, “Subah Se Shaam Se Mera Dostana”. Dostana is too small a word for that spot but Kishore Kumar just adjusted it so well that it doesn’t jar.
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Anuja Chandramouli
May 29, 2016
Loving this post! It just keeps on giving. The lists are fab. Here is mine in no particular order.
Indha Minminiku – Sivappu Rojakal
Podi Nadaiya – Kadalora Kavithaigal
Aasai Athigam – Marupadiyum
Kanmani Anbodu – Guna
Then Madurai – Dharmathin Thalaivan
Othadi othadi – Dharmathin Thalaivan
Aasaiyai Kathula – Johnny
Pootukul – Kshyatriyan
Madai Thirandhu – Nizhalgal
Yarum Vizhaiyadum thotam – Nadodi Thendral
And btw BR, I did not like a single song on your list either 🙂
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MANK
May 29, 2016
Madan, yes as far as the usage of ragas goes , i think IR hardly has much competition. Perhaps he has done songs in all the ragas.i think panivizhum from ninaivellam nithya is challa nattai and endham nenjil neengadha is Nalinakanthi . 2 ragas that i dont think composers use that much
And i agree with Brangan about Ae ajnabi. it just kills me every time i listen to it
And was it Rahini who said ARR hasn’t produced something like the sindhu bhairavi score where you get the whole film from the music alone ?
i seriously differ with that observation , i could just name 4 of ARR scores – Iruvar,Dil se,Taal and Rockstar where the music totally defines the film. you can llisten to the entire soundtrack and get the films , the music and songs reflect both the narrative arc of the picture and the character arc of the lead protagonist beautifully
one thing i agree with is that IR had the ability to make an even ridiculous film work big time purely based on his music. Karagattakkaran & chinna thambi comes immediately to mind. both films were record breaking hits but, those films minus IR’s music are a big zero. i would say that ARR’s best scores have been in pretty solid films , except Subhash Ghai’s Taal which was saved by his music.
ARR also has the disadvantage that his major collaborator has been Shanker – as opposed to IR – who uses songs merely as items,so his songs usually does seem to stand out from the rest of the film, but when given an opportunity to break free – like in the recent I- ARR can create wonders even in a shankar film
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MANK
May 29, 2016
Kaykay, Thanks man . Overjoyed to know you’re a fellow hamsadhvani lover 🙂 . , i just love that valittezithiya song. yeah dasettan simply knocks it out of the park. i wonder whether you have heard all of the Raveendran – dasettan combo songs especially in hamsadhwani- man they are just to die for.Also another composer who does well with hamsadhvani is Sarath. just check these out
and i believe ARR composed the fantastic theekuruvi from kangalal kaithi sai in hamsadhwani . of course it was totally wasted in a terrible film and by terrible picturisation. bharatiraja should be ashamed of himself
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Madan
May 29, 2016
@ MANK: On the subject of unusual ragas, Meetadha Oru Veenai (Poonthotham) in Reeti Gowla ragam is def worth a mention. As such, a raga that is rarely used and the treatment is even more unusual.
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MANK
May 29, 2016
And reg. all this talk about IR vs ARR, has it occurred to anybody else that their process of creating songs are completely opposite. i dont know whether i am over analysing this , but i always felt that IR created his songs inside out while ARR creates them from outside in. if i have to make a comparison, then IR is more like the american method actor while ARR is more of a british stage actor. i guess for IR the basic tune comes first, then the orchestration come organically out of it as opposed to ARR who create the atmosphere of the song first and then shape it down to the basic tune.if you take a song like muqala muqabla., the basic tune is very similair to SJ’s ‘pyar hua iqrar hua hai’ while the orchestration is heavily influenced by Ennio Morricone’s iconic score for the dollars trilogy. thats what perhaps gives the song a real punch, a song that is instantly relatable and at the same time that sound very different. as regards to IR even when we take a song like ninnukori varnam, – as madan said it is a pretty regular tune sexed up by awesome Western fusion -but still the orchestration and the bgm are very much linked to the basic tune. i dont think they stand that apart.as in an ARR composition where the basic tune and the music covering it is of a contra nature. even a very simple composition like porale ponnuthai is accompanied by sound that is pretty strange when related to its basic tune IMO.
And i believe this is the root cause of all usual criticisms that is leveled against both of them, that IR ‘s sound is old fashioned and repetitive , while ARR ‘S music is out of sync with the movie and takes just too long to catch on. because basic tune of a song is not much of an issue for ARR,he is trying to create a mood or an effect with the entire song rather than with the basic tune and Hence it is difficult for the listeners as does not have an easy hook to latch on to the song and need to listen to it a few times for the whole song to sink in before he starts enjoying it, as opposed to IR’s music where the tune itself is very catchy and hooks the listener instantly. as somebody was pointing out about Veera vs duet, its the same thing . i was just hooked onto malai kovil vasalil and konji konji immediately and hated hated mettu podu. but of course in due time i just came to love mettu podu and appreciated for the brilliant creation it is.
And i love both IR and ARR.just like Rajni and kamal – who cannot be compared to one another -. i love both their individual styles.but i am a little more soft on IR i guess,
there is a timelessness to his music. that sort of divine touch. even with all the romantic songs that i have heard over the years. for me the song that come flying to the lips at first instance is ‘ore naal unay nan nilavil parthathu’.
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Ana
May 29, 2016
Dislaimer 1: I like ARR songs (more during his first 10 yrs or so and occasional appeal later. but that is due to the fact that my choice of music is IR types…and hence it is not to demean ARR..equally love MSV, KVM, RDB and Rajan-Nagendra too !
Disclaimer 2: Not read all the posts above (btw, is this a top 10 record for number of comments to BR’s blogs?) and hence am seeking a pardon for the inevitable repetition
Giving a list of fav IR songs is like how Vairamuthu writes in vaaname ellai (nadodi mannargaLe song) viz., “yamunayai siraikondu kuvaLaikkuL adaikkira ungaL veeram vaazhga”
Instead of trying to list down 10 fav songs, am thinking of a method to this act of madness…perhaps, we can list 10 songs apiece under the below heads:
1. Male solos (mainly SPB, Mano, KJY, Malaysia, IR himself). The order is based my hunch on the descending order of number of songs they have sung in IR’s music
2. Female solos (mainly Janaki, Chithra, Suseela, Swarnalatha, Vani Jayaram who somehow didnt get to sing a whole lot for IR, Shailaja, Uma Ramanan)
3. Duets (mainly SPB+Janaki, SPB+Chitra, Mano+Chitra, Mano+Janaki, KJY+Chitra, IR+Janaki, IR+Chitra, Malaysia+Janaki, Male Duets like SPB with IR, SPB with Malaysia+Female Duets like the one soul-stirring song in Karpooramullai with Suseela and Chitra)
There could be further cuts based on the mood–thuLLal, kaadhal, paasam, sogam,sandhosham, kovam etc.
That said, lemme try listing my fav 10 songs of my fav Chitra (Not picking my other two favs SPB or Suseela coz of the infinite volume and relatively limited volume respectively) based on top of mind recall at the moment:
Poove poochodava (Poove poochodava)
Karpoora mullai ondru (karpoora mullai)
Ninnokkori varanam (agni natchathiram)
Devanin kovil moodiya neram (aruvadai naaL)
Paadariyen (sindhu bhairavi)
Kotti kedakkudhu selvangaL bhoomiyile (theerthakkaraiyinile)
Ethetho eNNam vaLarthen (punnagai mannan)
Podi nadaya (kadalora kavithaigaL)
Jallanta (geethanjali)
Othayile ninnadhenna (vanaja girija)
Adding one more list of a fav duet combo of SPB+Chitra
Ennuyire vaa (poonthotta kavalkaren)
Irandum ondrodu (paNakkaran)
Guruvayurappa (pudhupudhu arthangaL)
Aalappol velappol (Ejamaan)
Adi vaanmadhi (siva)
Subhalekha raasukunna (kondaveetidonga)
kaalam kaalamaga (punnagai mannan)
Idhazhil kadhai ezhudhum (unnal mudiyum thambi)
Mayilaadum paarai (Paandi naatu thangam)
Poongatru yen per sollum (vetri vizha)
The idea here is to purely pass the inbam that I have got in listening to the list above. 🙂
Lastly, someone summed up IR’s greatness as follows–he is someone who can appeal at equal measure to folks who doesn’t understand technical details of music (like a paamaran in me who doesnt have a clue about interludes, raagam etc.) and to the pundits and purists…
A lot of the debate of who is superior would have been put to rest if IR stopped doing music after mid-90s..As Ian Chappel says, if we have to compare a sachin to a bradman, we have to bring one of them to the other gen (e.g. sachin played in 100+ test venues while bradman only played in 6 or so but the latter played without any protective gear)..so let’s not do that
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VenkateswaranGanesan (@_Drunkenmunk)
May 29, 2016
//I never liked this Kizakku Vasal song till I learnt the “inspiration” behind the song. What an adaptation of western classical to Tamil folk!//
It doesn’t quite end there 😉 The real genius in “why use this?” is in the second line. “therukkoothukkum pAttukkum thALagadhi vENum” i.e. with proper thALagadhi, any music ‘can be’ therukkoothu. Want proof? Here, take Mozart’s 25th symphony. I will make a therukkoothu of it. This depth of IR’s clearly separates him from the boys. This is one composer who knows what he is doing. And this is pretty much consistent with his music philosophy. Western Classical will also sound Carnatic classical to him http://www.tubechop.com/watch/5771609
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Madan
May 29, 2016
“i was just hooked onto malai kovil vasalil and konji konji immediately and hated hated mettu podu” – Again interesting how different musical experiences can be. I did sort of like Konji Konji and still only sort of like it (though I have come to appreciate the melody and also the second interlude). But it was a long time before I really fell in love with Malai Kovil Vasalil. IR just keeps giving at such an incredible rate that it sadly becomes easy to take his quality for granted. That kind of sums up the story of the 90s. He kept giving but in terms of a difference from what he had already done, it was only incremental and that wasn’t enough for the listeners anymore. It was Rahman who provided something REALLY different.
Another basic difference between IR and Rahman and in fact between IR and all other Indian film music directors is IR writes many (not all and his folk based songs tend not to follow this rule) songs chords up. Rahman’s songs do have chords but they kind of play a secondary role and don’t have a particularly interesting story to tell. Rahman is more about the overall texture than the roots. IR’s chord progressions are actually interesting, often amazing. It’s baffling how he can write a song both melody first and chords up at one and the same time. That’s kind of like trying to be S D Burman and Stevie Wonder simultaneously and IR does it and how! I can understand the orchestration as in the prelude/interludes happening later but how can the chords happen later and still be so well integrated AND independent with/of the song is what I cannot understand. Of course nobody said – and excuse my using that forbidden word 😉 – genius is easy to understand. Still, it defies gravity.
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complicateur
May 29, 2016
Lakshmi: Of course I’ve heard Bobbili Raja. Balapam Patti Bama VoLLO is an absolute favorite. Divya Bharti… sigh.
Just noticed that few commenters have taken exception to my earlier post about being fans of both composers. (IMO and all other MaanE ThEnE PonMaanE’s apply) Those who are huuuuge fans of both composers are huuuge fans of neither. Rahman while being part of a continuum (one that he refuses to acknowledge in the international media) is least like his predecessors. I dont mean this as a negative, just that his musical philosophy is quite different. The difference in his output and Raaja’s is the difference between Salieri’s and mozart’s, between SPB’s cover of Idhayam oru Kovil and Raaja’s version of Idhayam oru Kovil (or SPB’s stanzas in vazhi vidu vazhi vidu and Raaja’s stanza’s in the same song).
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sachita
May 29, 2016
Illayaraja in one of his interviews mentioned, how after h4 started looking for film music chances he realized a carnatic music training might help and decided “Seri, carnatic music kathukidalam”. ! Almost overnight he seemed to have picked it up. Genius.
Look at what he has produced. I have heard couple of carnatic music singers describe the way he handled a particular raaga.
Somebody even did a 25 part article on this online in the last decade. Lost the link. I got introduced to some raagas through that I think.
**
Not sure how to do just 10 for Illayaraja. I am glad Idazhil kadai ezhuthum made it to many people’s list. Just going through the list triggers some songs
marupadiyam – nallathor veenai comes to mind. dont love janaki’s timber in this song but love the song to this day.
Isayil thodungatama from Hey ram.
Maalayil yaaro.
Chinna thai eval from thalapathy
Theertha kaaryinile from varumai neeram sigappu.
Sippi erukuthu muthum erukuthu from same movie
Kalyana thenila from a movie starring Amala and mamooty( I have actually watched the movie !)
ethu oru pon Mazhai pozhuttu
Malayoram veesum katru.
Sorgame endralum – didnt like the song then i think based on some aspect of lyrics. but love it now.
I realize some collabrations of him like one with MR( even though it is only few films that they worked together) or the one with telugu director who made K Viswanathan – the entire collection is awesome.
And Mike Mohan – who got blessed with the most awesome songs. Cant fathom how he ended up being that lucky. Though he had nothing to do with songs, just for labelling purposes we can use the term mike mohan songs. They were all good.
**
@Madan: Reeti Gowlai has been used by every music director now.
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Rajaisgod
May 29, 2016
If Kadakumar wanted to insult millions of people with his ignorance, he certainly succeeded. “Circlejerking to IR music”, indeed. He states that the hit to song ratio for IR is small. I can count on one hand the number of songs I don’t like out of 6000+ and I am sure many other people would do the same. In terms of quality, quantity and diversity of music genre, nobody in the history of the world even comes close to IR. And I don’t know why people compare IR to ARR. Better comparison would be legends like MSV and KVM who have comparable number of great hits over a long period of time.
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Madan
May 29, 2016
@ sachita: Thanks, I see too that there are other songs in Reeti Gowlai. I had only known about Kangal Irandaal and Azhagana Ratchasiye (other than IR, that is). Still not one of the staple ragas though, not like keeravani, kalyani etc and that was my point.
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sachita
May 29, 2016
I just sauntered off to youtube for for few minutes after making a list – few more got added to the list like vetti veeru vaasam/puthum puthu olai… I guess all bharathiraja IR collection.
For some one as Prolific as him, a mere 10 cant be any list.
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Madan
May 29, 2016
“I dont mean this as a negative, just that his musical philosophy is quite different.” – Indeed it is different. But that need not stop fans from embracing a different philosophy hand in hand with IR’s. If it does, that suggests that the music of either may have become a sort of comfort zone for the fans so they find something different disorienting (which it often is at first brush) and don’t venture further. To your comparison of SPB and IR’s versions of Idhayam Oru Kovil, I have this to say: I am a huge fan of Karen Carpenter AND Fiona Apple. One an obsessive, prudish perfectionist and the other…well, as she sings in one of her lovely songs, “I wanna make a mistake/Why can’t I make a mistake?”. I am a huge fan of Rafi AND Kishore; one a sangidhi raja and another a near-no sangidhi wonder. I really don’t see the problem. I will just quote BR from his lovely article that addressed the very aspect of embracing ARR after having been an IR fan, “the only natural relationship state in the appreciation of art is polyamory.”
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KayKay
May 29, 2016
Sachita, sorry, The Pedant rears his ugly head again:
Music for Varumayin Neram Sigappu is by MSV, not Ilayaraja.
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lakshmi
May 29, 2016
complicateur: It’s not ‘vollo’ (lap), it’s ‘ballo’ (school) 😀 ‘vollo’ comes in the next line. My favourite is Kanyakumari kanapadadha daari
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brangan
May 29, 2016
sachita: Before KayKay rushes in, let me play pedant and say “putham pudhu olai’ is by Devendran. But point taken. Raja defined the way music was composed in his era, and others merely followed his lead.
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VenkateswaranGanesan (@_Drunkenmunk)
May 29, 2016
Sachita. Varumaiyin Niram Sigappu was by MSV.
My top 10 albums would be (qualification being every song in my books must be musically great) in no real order:
Hey Ram
NEPV
Eera Vizhi Kaaviyangal (one that really pushed me into the IR stratosphere; a turning point as a fan of sorts)
Guru (Malayalam) — Aruna Kirana Deepam is a an All Time Great in terms of orchestration and it had the beautifully orchestrated melody in Minnaram Maanathu, aside from great songs like Devasangeetham and Gurucharanam.
Punnagai Mannan
Karagaattakaaran
Johnny
Paattu Paadava (1995) — Nil Nil Nil is an outstanding song (do give this a listen https://soundcloud.com/vicky/nil-nil-nil). And even otherwise, like Compli mentioned, Vazhi Vidu Vazhi Vidu other than Chorus Paadura, Poonkaatrile and Iniya Gaanam make this a superbly rounded album (and I note I have 2 albums from films directed by the son and daughter BR Panthulu – EVK was by BR Ravishankar and this film was by BR Vijayalakshmi. IR seems to have had some soft corner for the family 😉 )
Guna
Virumandi
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raaga_suresh
May 29, 2016
As expected, most songs still place Raja in the 80s and early 90s. So I give you a list which is from 2000s and I am ready to argue with anyone that these set of songs are musically on par with the best songs of the 80s. I listen to these often. If you haven’t, give them a try and you will understand what you have been missing if you had pegged Raja in the 80s and early 90s.
‘kunnathe’ – Chitra – Pazhassiraja – Malayalam
‘kannil parvai’ – Shreya – Naan Kadavul – Tamil
‘mudhal murai paartha nyabagam’ – Sunidhi Chauhan – Nee Dhane En Pon Vasantham
‘kalvane kalvane’ – Haricharan, NSK Ramya – Megha – Tamil
‘kaiyetha kombatha” – Manjari – Vinodayatra – Malayalam
‘karuathur katukkule’ – Various – Virumandi – Tamil
‘nanu neetho’ – Bhavatharini – Gundello Godari – Telugu
‘e janumave’ – Kailash Kher – Oggarane – Kannada
‘mudi mudi’ – Shilpa Rao – Paa – Hindi
‘punnami poovai’ – Shreya – Rudramadevi – Telugu
Bonus:
11. ‘chengadhir kaiyum veesi’ – Chitra & chorus – Snehaveedu – Malayalam
The top 10 post 2000s albums
1. Virumandi – Tamil
2. Nee Dhane En Pon Vasantham – Tamil
3. Megha – Tamil
4. Pazhassiraja – Malayalam
5. Naan Kadavul – Tamil
6. Vinodayatra – Malayalam
7. Rudramadevi – Telugu
8. Uliyin Osai – Tamil
9. Snehaveedu – Malayalam
10. Dhoni – Tamil
Bonus:
1. Mumbai Express – Tamil
And I have not mentioned two albums which came out in 2000s and will probably outlive most of his film output:
1. The magnum opus – Tiruvasagam
2. The stunning – Swappnam
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complicateur
May 29, 2016
Madan: Polyamory is fine. But implicit in it is a certain dishonesty (emotional in your analogy, intellectual in the comparison I was making). While it is convenient, let’s not forget to acknowledge that.
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brangan
May 29, 2016
Digging through the archives yielded this piece on Neethane En Ponvasantham…
Lots of familiar names in the comments 🙂
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Ravi
May 30, 2016
Cracker of a song got overshadowed by other gems in this movie.
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Madan
May 30, 2016
@ complicateur: Why dishonest? Isn’t it just like enjoying different types of cuisine? Enjoying one need not preclude enjoyment of the other. I think this kind of stance only comes about because all Indian music traditions are raga based. So it’s easy to like folk (albeit with a little effort) if you like qawali and like ghazals if you like qawali, so on and so forth. Maybe it is that which makes you believe it is impossible to love music made by a composer with a different philosophy from the existing favourite. In Western music, even their traditions can be so different that one may not like ALL of them, let alone the innumerable mutations. So once you get used to that, listening to IR AND ARR is hardly a problem. Do I have a clear cut preference between IR and ARR? Yes, absolutely, and I don’t think it needs to be stated what my preference is. But that’s music; it is very much possible to love the work of two very different artists and still have a preference for one of the two.
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Prasad
May 30, 2016
Lot of excellent points has been already made in this blog.Just want to share a thought. I always thought lot of IR songs were severely lot down by very ordinary lyrics. There was not a Golden Combination like a RD- Gulzar for IR. RD and Gulzar struck till the end. Unfortunately when Vairamuthu got seperated and they together just had just 10 movies together……JUST 10 movies which is a shame! Just look at the songs when they were together!
1980 Nizhalgal
1981 Raja Paarvai
1982 Ninaivellam Nithya
1983 Salangai Oli
1984 Nallavanukku Nallavan
1985 Mudhal Mariyathai
1985 Naan Sigappu Manithan
1985 Sindhu Bhairavi
1986 Punnagai Mannan
And ….not to offend anybody …..it’s just a disappointing aspect that most of the IR songs were penned by Gangai Amaran and Vaali and some other’s who atleast were not in the league of VM.
“N” no of songs with just filler words with “Maane”Thene”….”Kaamam” and what not …polluted the Tamil cinema lyrics! Am not telling Vairamuthu was not a offender but atleast his combination with IR was class apart!
Just see how lucky RD was to get Gulzaar or vice versa. Lyrics elevates the songs like anything and some few examples how these songs haunt us still!
Also overall I always felt the lines in hindi songs are phenomenal even now ATLEAST in some of the movies! It’s hard to hear those lines in Tamil nowadays. Just list to “Lootera Songs”. Just golden!! Or even Take “Udaan” Queen” “Fitoor” or Aamir”. Hard to find the importance to lyrics nowadays in Tamil. I
Kya Kabhi Savera Ha Haan… Laata Hai Andhera Ha Haan…
Does sometimes morning also bring darkness?
Sookhi Siyaahi… Deti Hai Gawaahi…
The dry ink is the witness of this
Sadiyon Purani Aisi Ek Kahani, Reh Gayi, Reh Gayi Ankahee…
A story which was ages old, remained unsaid (unfinished)
Ankahee…
Unsaid
Kya Kabhi Bahaar Bhi, Peshagi Laati Hai, Aane Wale Patjhad Ki…
Does the spring also sometimes bring the signs of the upcoming autumn?
O… Baarishein Naarazagi Bhi Jataa Jaati Hai Kabhi Kabhi Ambar Ki…
Sometimes the rainfall also illustrates the anger it has for the skies
Patte Jo Shaakhon Se Toote… Bewajah To Nahi Roothe Aise Bhi…
When the leaves fall from the branches, they are upset, but with some (good) reason
Khwabon Ka Jharokha… Ha Haan… Sach Tha Ya Dhokha… Ha Haan
The window of dreams, was it true or was it a lie
Maatha Sehla Ke Nindiya Churaai
After gently stroking my head it stole my sleep
Sadiyon Purani Aisi Ek Kahani, Reh Gayi, Reh Gayi Ankahee…
A story which was ages old, remained unsaid
O… Ankahee… Ii…
Unsaid
Can anybody quote something like this in Tamil in recent times at this level? Atleast I didn’t come across.
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KayKay
May 30, 2016
Ah! Bitty Ruminations 69. How can I forget that, not least because I have a special affinity with that number 🙂
Just read the very FIRST comment on that thread to see what a picture of erudition and eloquence the KadaKumar Vs. Rothrocks spat in this one is.
Also, I’d almost forgotten that it was in THAT comments thread where a certain Late, Lamented Commentator finally crossed the line of even your legendary patience and tolerance and got himself evicted from these parts 🙂
Also, did I refer to the NEPV soundtrack as “Meh”??? (Facepalm). If possible, I’d travel back in time and bitch slap that KayKay upside the head. The NEPV soundtrack has grown quite a bit in my esteem since then.
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Ananth
May 30, 2016
BR, we will keep commenting till you close the comment section officially!
Yesterday, while travelling to Coimbatore by TNSTC bus, again it was IR either way. Little more than 6 hours of IR songs!
I was reminded of people saying that on long drives IR gives company. It struck me yesterday – who else can last that long? Only IR has staggering number of melodies.
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Raghu
May 30, 2016
Am I the only one who feels like:
IR’s top 10 list keeps changing as you go through your favorite tracks of his. Whereas ARR’s top 10 invariably comes from some 20-25 songs of his. To ARR’s credit, same is true with any other past great composers (SD, RD, Madan Mohan, Salil C, KVM, MSV, Saluri, Ravindran and etc) except for IR.
ARR’s preludes and pallavis are at least as good as IR’s and they give. But the real meat of IR songs come from interludes and charanams. Except for very few songs (maybe 20 or 30 songs) ARR’s charanams doesn’t excite me much. Most of the times the tune feels monotonous or just a filler. Lot of times he tries bring in new sounds, but they don’t feel like part of the song or they don’t carry forward the song. Whereas IR’s interludes and charanams in lot of his songs are better than the preludes/pallavis. The tune goes through different variations keeping the mood of the song intact and brilliantly coming back to interlude/pallavi and orchestration lot of times gives me goosebumps.. When you listen with good headphones, you feel like you are living the tune, orchestration and dynamics (all together at once).
Same goes for ARR’s background scores.. They seems to have good sounds or clarity of instruments, but doesn’t go deeper than that either in constructing a theme or mood (with very few exceptions). We all know what IR can do wrt BGMs.
In ARR case, the genre of the composition is on your face. With IR, you can never say which genre it belongs to.. The notes are so much intermingled and from different genres, finally you just enjoy the homogeneous output. Thats one of the reasons, just regular composers can never even imitate IR.
It is just unfair to IR and also to ARR to compare these two.. ARR is part of the indian film musical evolution and IR is an exceptional genius who doesn’t fall into this evolution graph. So it makes more sense to compare ARR to other great composers (listed above). IR’s body of work is humanly incomprehensible, let alone someone else repeating it.
Here is the list with some of my favorite songs of IR (which I didn’t find in most of the lists given already. I could easily 200 more songs of the same quality. ):
appappa thithikkum (Japanil Kalyana Raman) – Tamil
Kuyile Kuyilu (Selvi) – Tamil
Kannan Vanthu (Rettai Vaal Kuruvi) – Tamil
Azhagana nam paandi (pudhu Patti Ponnuthayi) – Tamil
Poonthalir (Paneer Pushpangal) – Tamil
Adi Rani Mangamma (Poruthathu Pothum) – Tamil
Oru Ganam (Nadodi Thendral) – Tamil
Mannayum (Nadodi Pattukaran) – Tamil
Kekalayo (Kasthooriman) – Tamil
Siru Ponmani (Kallukkul Eeram) – Tamil
Ennathil (Kallukkul Eeram) – Tamil
Alai Meedu (Kadhal Kavithai) – Tamil
Poothu Nikkithu (Echil Iravugal) – Tamil
Ithu Ilamai Ilamai (Ambigai Neeril Vanthal) – Tamil
Kanmaniye (Aarilirunthu Arubathu Varai) – Tamil
Mega Deepam (Aagaya Gangai) – Tamil
Aadal Padalil (Vetrikku Oruvan) – Tamil
Na Paruvam (Yugandhar) – Telugu
Saayankala Sandhya (Sunny) – Telugu
Jilibili Palukula (Sitara) – Telugu
Saagara Sangamame (Seethakoka Chiluka) – Telugu
Alalu Kalalu (Seethakoka Chiluka) – Telugu
Kajuraholo (Rudra Nethra) – Telugu
Nee Meedha (Rakshasudu) – Telugu
Ramudu Anukoledu ( Raj Kumar) – Telugu
Bhavanalokatayyi (Poola Pallaki) – Telugu
Manaku Dosti (Mantrigari Viyyankudu) – Telugu
Pongi Porale (Kotha Jeevithalu) – Telugu
Subhalekha (Kondaveeti Donga) – Telugu
Yevevo Kalalu (Jwala) – Telugu
Alli Billi (Chettu Kinda Pleader) – Telugu
Tella Cheeraku (Akhari Poratam) – Telugu
Any song in Abhinandana
Aa kanulalo ( Alapana) – Telugu
I will stop here.. I am not listing for kannada and malayalam as I don’t want to make it any longer..
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P
May 30, 2016
Madan: I got so furious at your Ae Ajnabi comment, I mean dissing Gulzar like that. Unbelievable. You don’t just diss Gulzar to a single Indian woman sir! 🙂 He is the secret lover we all come home to 🙂
Anyway BR replied better than I could on the topic, so leaving it at that 🙂
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Rahini David
May 30, 2016
MANK: Yes, I am the one who said that soundtracks like Sindhu Bairavi are better than movies like Kadal in taking you into THAT particular movie. Of the movies you have provided, I have only watched Iruvar. Is it a very good soundtrack? Definitely. Did it transport me to the 50s or 60s? Well not so much. But I don’t think that it THAT wrong as it is a movie that introduced Aishwarya Rai and they had to be upbeat and all that. Did Kaaviyathaivan have that effect? I don’t remember those songs much.
There is a song called “Paarijatha Poove” in the movie “En Rasavin Manasilea” that is picturised in the 60s look. When I heard the audio alone, I thought it must be a real 60s song. That is what I am talking about. And also, I am talking about the entire soundtracks and lyrics are very much a part of the songs. Not that many songs place us within the movie. “Santhosha Kanneerea” is a wonderful song and accentuates the emotions of the movie but taking that song away would not actually leave that part of the movie very empty. You might miss the song, but that is different. By this time, MR wasn’t so invested in songs being part of the movie, IMO.
Take the older Maniratnam movies. In a way “Chinna Chinna Vanna Kuyil” is more important to the movie than people usually give it credit for. It kind of shows that she has started being actively happy in the presence of the husband. In fact, there are subtle lyrics that hint as sexual receptiveness itself in the song and it is in a movie that is essentially about initial frigidity and slow thawing. Take that song away and you take a very important part of that movie even though it is at surface a mere dream song.
And I am not saying that ARR can’t do it. Maybe, after satellite TV channels became popular, songs needed to exist more as standalones and in that respect, ARR just did what he had to do.
That is also the pretty much the reason why there is no Karagatakaran or Chinna Thambi to ARR’s name. By that time, we found copying soundtracks to empty audio cassettes so easy that we didn’t go the theatres just to listen to the songs.
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Ananth
May 30, 2016
A few years ago, i, an IR fan, was overjoyed by one of the responses of “Arasu Bathilgal”. (For non-readers of Tamil weeklies, “Arasu Bathilgal” is the most popular question-answer section in the popular Tamil magazine “Kumudam”. (There is a story that three editors/writers respond to the questions and their names being a secret).
The question went something like this: “To a question about Hollywood’s geniuses, you answered that the only genius of Hollywood is “Charlie Chaplin”. If i ask you to pick someday as “the only genius of tamil film industry”, who would be your choice?” Obviously the answer was “Ilayaraja”. There was just the name, no explanation given!!
Only genius of tamil films? When i thought about it, i came with an interesting explanation. Who was the most dominant film personality before IR? According to me, it was Kannadasan in terms of sheer genius (not withstanding the great musicians, directors and actors including MGR & Sivaji). So IR replaced Kannadasan not MSV … will somebody replace IR? who knows?
Interestingly, in one of the concerts, IR comparing himself with Kannadasan said the lyrics just flowed from Kannadasan just the way the tunes flowed from me.
(Then, what about AR? AR comes after IR in this great line up of music directors: MSV, IR and AR. That’s in Tamil. But, AR has his place in Bollywood and Hollywood too. But can he join Kannadasan and IR? Not really, i guess.)
And let me also give the links of a couple of clips i enjoyed most:
BR, Comments keep flowing, just like the tunes! Hi, hi! (BTW, this is most popular response of Arasu!)
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Rahini David
May 30, 2016
This post is not among the top 10 in number of comments. It is second only to Bajirao Mastani. And it may easily surpass even that.
And hey, I was only saying that Duet soundtrack was more popular than Veera soundtrack and that does not make it automatically better. And that too when Rajini was at his peak. Duet was proof that ARR was a force to be reckoned with.
My own personal opinion was that Veera soundtrack made me alive to the fact that I had a unique type of Isai-Thaagam. It is a thaagam that can be quenched ONLY by IR music no matter how good the new, shiny releases were. Even movies like Sethupathy IPS and Vanaja Girija made me feel the same way. And yes, Honest Raj too.
😀
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P
May 30, 2016
Also found this somewhere:
“When Gulzar won the Oscar for Jai Ho (Slumdog Millionaire) he was asked in an interview what he considered his finest work was. He replied that it was Ae Ajnabi from Dil Se.”
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Naveen
May 30, 2016
happened to step inside the Panagal Park around 5 and was welcome by SPB’s booming voice from the central pillar over a public addressing system player, “Kaalai nera poonguyil”. it was such a bliss even in the evening. the watchman/caretaker was playing one of the routine IR hits. i could find a few which i had not heard in a while but had enjoyed those at some point int time. got leads for some of my other favorites too
I feel Chinna Gounder should be on par with dhalapathy in terms of excellence and contribution of music to the entire film. this one song can transport you to the villages of pollcahi/gobichettipalaym where they used to shoot all rural scenes ( Virasat punjabi village to TN village ).lyrics by RV Uday himself, he clicked very well with IR. this is better than Vaira’s karuthamma lyrics, IMO>
you can build a temple for SPB and SJ just for this song. they are just tooo good in this.this is only where i could of Captain’s.
kaNNu valadukaNNu thaana thudichudhunna
aedhO nadakkuminnu paechu
maanam koraiyuminnu maasu padiyuminnu
veeNaa kadhai mudinju pOchu
eesaani moolaiyila laesaana palli chaththam
maamaen paerai solli paesudhu
aaraadha sOgamthannai theeraama saethu vachu
oorum saendhu ennai yaesudhu
maamaa maamaa onnathaanae
eNNi naanum naaLum thavichaenae
kooNdukulla onna vachi koodi ninna oora vittu
kooNdukulla vanthathindha kOlakkiLiyae
thennankiLaiyum thendral kaathum kuyilum
adi maanae unnai dhinam paadum
kanji madippum karai vaetti thuNiyum
indha maamaen kadhaiyai dhinam paesum
poLLaachi sandhaiyilae koNdaandha selaiyilae
saayam innum vittu pOgalae
baNNaari kOyilukku mundhaanai Orathilae
naernthu mudicha kadan theeralae
maanae maanae onnathaanae
eNNi naanum naaLum thavichaenae
sorry, for those dont understand Tamil. will check if there is translation available. you can still feel the song with the singing and music
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brangan
May 30, 2016
Seriously! I don’t get it either. The human brain is capable of infinite types of processing, and I seriously do not see why someone cannot like dhrupad as well as prog rock. I can understand if someone says THEY find it unable process both kinds of music, but there is no way this can be extrapolated into a generalised rule for every music lover.
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brangan
May 30, 2016
Rahini David: Regarding your point about I have only watched Iruvar. Is it a very good soundtrack? Definitely. Did it transport me to the 50s or 60s? …
It’s not always necessary that there is “realism” in such matters. Take Senthoorappoove. It’s not really a “village song,” is it? The instruments, the orchestration etc. are far from what one associates with the “reality” of a village. But it’s an expressionistic representation of a girl’s state of mind, etc. Similarly, with Iruvar. There are hints of the period in the tunes (like narumugaiye, or poo kodiyin) but the orchestration doesn’t belong to that period. It’s an artistic choice.
I say this as someone who’s not all that fond of that soundtrack. This is just about the style.
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MANK
May 30, 2016
Brangan, you are not ‘all that fond’ of Iruvar soundtrack, pray why? i thought it was quite a defining moment in ARR’s discography. up until that time he was dismissed as a mere jingle composer – and being obsessed with the same westernized sounds -. by much of the critics. i thought he finally proved his range with that score
I believe Iruvar was first offered to IR and he turned it down and it would have been right up his street, because the music required IR’s range . but i would say ARR more than rose up to the occasion.
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satishkvasan
May 30, 2016
Adding to the umpteen stories of making of IR songs – https://youtu.be/GW9HznWQzoQ
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MANK
May 30, 2016
Reg: iruvar songs not transporting you to that era-well just to add to what Brangan said- i would say its also very subjective too , depends a lot on our own perception of what constitutes the music of that period right?.how you make that connection. i think it was a artistic choice made by MR to have a more representative music of that period rather than the actual one so that it works both in the context of the movie and also does not alienate the more contemporary viewers\listeners
Rahini, thats a great point you make about Chinna Chinna Vanna Kuyil. i agree with you, but i am not very sure about the picturisation of that song,i feel it does lessen the impact.
Another thing is that over the years , MR has slowly lost his ability to seamlessly blend the songs with the narrative. he has always been uncomfortable with the presence of songs but in his dalapathi days, he knew how to work it out. even if you take a song like sundari kannal oru, its a dream song in the middle of what is a very gritty film , but it doesnt look that out of place, but look what happened when he tried the adiye song in kadal, it was a disaster.
he never had the ability of a KB, As you said about sindhu bhairavi, IR’s music is great as it is, but KB’S ability to use that music is simply unmatched. you just take the scene where suhasini’s mother confronts her on the beach and she decides to tell her the truth about her birth. there are no dialogues , no big drama, KB just play the ‘nan or sindhu’ song. you get the emotional truth of that moment. i dont think MR ever acquired that kind of comfort with using music and narrative, at Least not with ARR.
btw you should write a piece about sindhu bhairavi on your blog 🙂
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Naveen
May 30, 2016
P, Gulzar is my gr8 fav too. i always used to attempt to compare Javed Akthar/gulzar with Vaali/Vaira and realized you cannot really map them.
i prefer Gulzar’s older ones ( ghar, ijjazat, masoom, aandhi, koshish, gharonda etc) anytime to the newer ones ( be it with ARR or MR or Vishal ). i could equate gulzar with IR, in timelessness and longevity. same way somebody has linked IR to Kannadasan rather than MSV
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Filistine
May 30, 2016
I wonder how much a visual memory affects a song. I don’t mean just the picturisation of the song, but the context in which the song occurs inside a film.
Someone here mentioned “Thalaiyai Kuniyum…”. It was a favourite of mine for years, till I happened the catch the movie on TV. It was one of those god-awful, regressive, rubbish films revolving around a rape. The rapist not just goes scot-free, but ends up successful in life, while the rape victim get the raw end of the stick, as always. The song unfortunately happens to be a precursor to the rape (involving the same two characters). Since then, I have never been able to listen to the song, without feeling depressed.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 30, 2016
Unfortunately when Vairamuthu got seperated and they together just had just 10 movies together……JUST 10 movies which is a shame!
Prasad: Wikipedia is the source? How can you miss Alaigal Oivathillai, Kaathal Oviyam, Tik Tik Tik, Mann Vaasanai, et al? The combo worked together in all Bharathiraaja films (starting from Nizhalgal to Kadalora Kavithaigal). In my count, they must have worked together in at least 50-100 films. Salangai Oli, Enakkul Oruvan and Sindhu Bhairavi had all songs penned by Vairamuthu. The pair also worked in Neengal Kettavai, Un Kannil Neer Vazhinthaal, and almost all Rajini-Kamal films for AVM productions! In fact, Vairamuthu’s first released film was Thalaivar’s Kaali!
Vaali
wasis grossly underrated! Gangai Amaran wasn’t a poor choice either – that man gave some wonderful songs in Mullum Malarum, Azhiyatha Kolangal, and Moondram Pirai. ‘Poovannam’ and ‘Ponmeni Uruguthey’ are among his masterpieces!If not for Roja (Rahman), Vairamuthu’s career would’ve ended long back!
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Tambi Dude
May 30, 2016
“Seriously! I don’t get it either. The human brain is capable of infinite types of processing, and I seriously do not see why someone cannot like dhrupad as well as prog rock. I can understand if someone says THEY find it unable process both kinds of music, but there is no way this can be extrapolated into a generalised rule for every music lover.”
Fully agreed. I listen to rock and hindustani classical (only vocal) all the time and enjoy both immensely. Hindustani instrumental can be as boring as Carnatic vocal 🙂
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Utkal
May 30, 2016
Hey guys. Thanks for the Top 10 lists. I have copied and pasted them on to a page and will tray them out. Today I don’t have to pay anyone to get them recorded; I think I can download them all from the Net and make the World’s Best Playlist. In the meanwhile here is my Top 10 in no partucuar order. ( I am out of town and don’t have access to my Best of Ilayaraja 1, 2 , 3 & 4. So this is from my memory, with a bit of prompting from your lists.)
Ninnukkori varnam (Agninakshathram)
Anthimazhai ( Rajaparvai)
Senthura poove ( 16 vayathinile)
Suvvi Suvvi Suvvalamma Song ( Swati Mutyam )
Chinna chinna vannakuyil ( Mouna Ragam)
Kanea Kalai Maanea (Moondraam Pirai)
Sundari kannal oru sethi ( Thalapathi )
Kodiyile Malliyapoo ( Kadalora Kavithaigal )
Ennulle Ennull ( Valli)
Katril enthan geetham ( Jonny)
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Srinivas R
May 30, 2016
Talking of lyrics.. The one area where I prefer IR over ARR is the way the lyrics allowed to breathe. Quite a few ARR songs end up mangling the lyrics ( choice of singer or overcrowded music), I have never had that problem with IR songs.
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Rahini David
May 30, 2016
MANK:btw you should write a piece about sindhu bhairavi on your blog:)
I did. https://femininetosh.wordpress.com/2015/05/05/the-dancer-and-her-muse/
But yes, I do get that it is only one aspect of a rather complex movie that I have discussed. So we discussed further in the comment section.
I have always put “Chinna Chinna vanna kuyil” picturisation down to Revathy’s comfort level.
And about KB using “Naan oru sindu” in that scene, I am reminded of a Barathiraja Interview. The last scene of Mudhal Mariyathai has Radha visiting Sivaji’s death bed and the line “Poongatru Thirumbuma” plays in the background. Barathiraja said that it was IR’s decision and he himself was surprised and happy. Or maybe it is a Vairamuthu Interview I am talking about, I don’t remember. But the point is how IR decided to play the song in an already edited scene and it just fits. Music, lyrics, everything. 🙂
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Nithya
May 30, 2016
Oru santhana kaattukkulle from Ellame en raasathan in nobody’s list? It will easily make my top 10 of all time. I listen to this song only when I am alone, as it just turns me into a crying emotional wreck every single time.
Oru naal andha oru naal from Devadhai is a huge favourite from the so called post 1992 Raaja. Nil nil nil too, such genius!
Just saying “IR’s strength is the orchestration” blah blah blah is nothing but fans of other MDs living in denial. It gives them a chance to hallucinate that their favourite (ARR or MSV or anyone else) MD is also as good as IR in composing tunes but IR edges them out in the orchestration. Actually, not at all. Take oru santhana kaattukkulle for instance – what a mindblowing tune, see the flow of the charanam. I am musically illiterate and know zilch about it’s musical greatness. But this song just pierces me in the sheer beauty of it’s tune. The fact that the IR and SJ versions of the song are orchestrated totally different is all icing on the cake. It can stand alone even without that icing. Same with Idhayam oru kovil and a thousand other songs. They hold their own just on strength of the tune and people should stop kidding themselves really.
Btw BR, loved your article. The touched by God preciseness is putting it accurately. While perfection in art is non existent, it does in the realm of Raja. Not as a goal that the composer sets out to achieve, but as a by product of his absolute mastery. Not a single note out of place. If there was even a single discordant note, single piece that did not fit in to the whole, even someone with no knowledge like me can make that out. The archeologist analogy is spot on – a composition grabs my attention for something, anything really – and then lets me dig deeper to unearth more and more awesomeness. As opposed to taking 20 listens just to decide whether at all it holds my attention or not.
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Naveen
May 30, 2016
Srini, 100% true. with IR many times u feel words are like diamond mounted on gold. with ARR many times u have to strive hard to get the lyrics. i am sure ARR knows it too and does not care/mind, probably due to focus on the sounds. lyrics in Bombay, Dil Se, Puthiya mugham, Guru, Alaypayuthe ( except Snegidhanai snegidhnai ) were very good on the listenability of the words. the mess is high in the recent ones ( mainly Shankar’s movies to be specific ). IR too has done Pandiyanin Raajiyathil Uyyalaala, Damaku Damaku dama dama chancu kedachudne emma etc, but you could hear the words un-mangled. this is something ARR should consciously focus on if he cares about it. one could argue that this is international sound, not just for localities so ok if you dont get the lyrics as long as the music company makes money internationally. many of my northie frnds look for ARR’s upcoming releases, for the sound and beat as such.
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Prasad
May 30, 2016
@Honest Raj (formerly ‘V’enkatesh)
Thanks . I stand corrected. But the point was the somehow I felt the lyrical quality in IR songs could have been much greater it VM would have been there with him for more films. Also and also offlate (after the TASMAC period as I can say in Tamil ) I don’t fine any lyrical gems in the likes of a Lootera, Udaan, Queen, Dev D ,Kai Poche or a Fitoor in Tamil.
On second thought, thought of sharing IR’s speech in AR’s oscar function. IR talks about Madan mohan, SD, MSV and ….finally he get’s to appreciate AR :).
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Tambi Dude
May 30, 2016
@Nithya: Just heard the Devadhai song “Oru naal andha oru naal”. Doesn’t the tune (specially charnams) remind of “nee partha” from Heyram.
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Nithya
May 30, 2016
@Tambi Dude, not even close to my ears. I haven’t heard either song in a while though, but I don’t think so. 🙂
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Utkal
May 30, 2016
I don’t want to clutter this IR thread by talking about ARR. But since Ei Ajnabi has been mentioned, I must say I find it quite ordinary. In fact it is the least favourite track of Dil Se for me ( 1. Chhaiyan Chhaiyan 2. Dil Se 3. Jiya Jale 4. Sat Rangi Re 5. Ai Ajnabi). It is not a bad song but it does not have the Rahman quality of melodic innovation or orchestral complexity. It is in the line of what traditional Hindi film composers do. But in that territory it cannot match the beauty of a simple tune like “ Lag Ja gale’ of Madan Mohan or ‘ Oh Sajna’ of Salil Chaudhury or ‘ Pankh Hote Toh Ud Aati’ of Shankar -Jaikishan. Lyrically too it is saying nothing that sticks in the mind, unlike say “ Lag Ja Gale”. Instead listen to this exquisite song from “ Taal’ which the traditional Hindi composers could never pull off.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
May 30, 2016
Prasad: I saw this at the time of release. Really felt sad for Rahman. It looked like a felicitation ceremony for MSV. 🙂
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Ana
May 30, 2016
IR songs may have had lyrical clarity but it was not intended that way I guess coz, one gets a feeling that he didn’t care for lyrics (or importantly lyricists). During his godly years, he believed anyone (Tom, D and H) could write for him and it will work only coz of his music. this may have been the reason for his fall out with big lyricist like VM and relatively smaller like piraisoodan..
VM wrote for a sizeable chunk of movies for IR between 80-85 and insisted he gets all the songs in a movie (this had no bearing on the box office prospects of the movies as they gave hits like sindhu bhairavi, poove poochodava, mudhal mariyadhai and flops like vikram, ninaivellam nithya and kadhal oviyam)..IR would split the Mohan movies equally between VM, Vaali, Na.Kamarasan, Muthulingam, Gangai Amaran etc. Personally to me, IR+VM was superior quality to IR+Vaali. Felt that Vaali had used most of his prowess with MGR, MSV and KVM.
it is important to delink IR’s personality (which has more haters than lovers I suppose) before judging his music..coz, ARR is not great only coz he is humble and IR is not less great (for his exploits) coz he is arrogant
PS: My fav is IR…:D
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Madan
May 30, 2016
@ Honest Raj : Agreed, I was kind of hoping nobody would bring that up. Such a long speech with so little said about Rahman. Sorry to say that it would have been better had he not spoken at all. Ironically, since you mentioned MSV, the most sincere tribute came from MSV himself.
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Madan
May 30, 2016
“ARR’s charanams doesn’t excite me much.” – Me neither. Or rather I should say I find the ‘logic’ too circuitous often times. But there are songs where the logic is more elegant and these are among my favourite songs of IFM – Kannalane, Anjali Anjali Pushpangale, En Kadhalae, Yennai Kannavilaye, Ennavale. There are more but these came to min first.. On the other hand, I get a bit bored with a charanam like Telephone Mannipol; doesn’t ever seem to get to the point.
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Utkal
May 30, 2016
Now to the phenomenon of why it needs multiple listens to get the full beauty of a Rahman composition. It is not due to any musical inadequacy. There are two reasons. Firstly, Rahman’s melodies are not traditional melodic phrases you have heard before. Some of his tunes use a combination of notes that you have never heard before. So you are bewildered. It takes a while before you start getting the melody. But the genius of Rahman is such that once you get it you cannot think of changing a single note. They seem to have existed since eternity. Some songs like Mehndi hai rachne wali or Chhalka or Uslam bati, they seem like existing folk songs while he actually created them. Same with Sufi songs and Qawalis like Khwaja Mere Khwaja or Kun Faya Kun. The second is about the tectonic paradigm shift he created in the way a film composition sounds like. There were innovators like RD Burman and Ilayaraja before him…but they stuck to the old template: There is a tune and you embellish it with instrumentation. But with Rahman , this dichotomy did not exist. Rather the trichotomy did not exist, one should say. The boundaries between the lyric, the tune and the orchestration vanishes with Rahman. It is a total soundscape that he creates. That is the sing for him. You cannot separate the different elements. It is the difference between a figurative paintings, even if stylized like Rembrandt or Picasso vs abstract expressionism. The latter is harder to get. But ultimately you get it and you build relationship with a Pollock work and recognize its lines and dots and you realize not one le3ment is out of place. A bit of exaggeration there, but that is what in essence Rahman is about.
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P
May 30, 2016
Naveen: I adore Gulzar. Have two or three of his books as well. I would marry him if I could 🙂 ❤
Prasad: I almost wish you hadn’t shared that video, because it tells me something I had long suspected but never really wanted to know about the industry and how it treats, um, “outsiders” (thats me being PC for once in my life!)
Disappointed 😦
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Madan
May 30, 2016
“During his godly years, he believed anyone (Tom, D and H) could write for him and it will work only coz of his music” – Why godly years (assuming by that you mean his 80s peak)? Even last year in an interview during the promotion of Shamitabh, he said to the effect that his songs would be hits irrespective of whoever sang it. OK, I get the point that the composition is more important but still at times it does rankle that he would not more effusively acknowledge the contribution of SPB or SJ in embellishing his already great songs and taking them to the stratosphere. I have heard Karthik sing the old classics during NEPV launch and again during Ilayaraja Ayiram and I cannot see those songs becoming evergreen classics with Karthik’s vocals. And he is a pretty decent singer (but SPB is a legend).
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complicateur
May 30, 2016
Madan: “So once you get used to that, listening to IR AND ARR is hardly a problem. Do I have a clear cut preference between IR and ARR? Yes, absolutely” Thanks for making my point for me. When one says one is a huuuge fan or both implied somewhere is that you place them on equal pedestal. All I’m saying is THAT isn’t possible.
Also, my thought process isn’t really grounded in any raaga based sentiment.
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Madan
May 30, 2016
. “There were innovators like RD Burman and Ilayaraja before him…but they stuck to the old template: There is a tune and you embellish it with instrumentation. ” – I don’t quite agree there. Singer-composer Sharreth once gave the example of Solai Poovil Maalai Thendral to demonstrate how tightly locked the arrangements in an IR song are with the melody. He said if you just sing the pallavi sans music, it sounds very ordinary (and I agree). And then you introduce that super catchy beat and suddenly it’s a whole different song. This point is also brought out in Nasser’s recounting of the recording of Thendral vandhu thoongum bodhu. How he thought the tune was – he didn’t use the word 😀 – mokkai (mediocre) and then when he heard the first rush with the gorgeous vocalise at the beginning, he was stunned. IMO RDB represented the first stage of moving away from the pattern of the old Hindi composers who composed a tune and then worked out some interludes that went well along with it. RDB began to use chords, exotic percussion, just about any sound that he thought would work. But with RD it seemed to be a little chaotic/improvised whereas IR rolled it all together in one cohesive, flowing style, like a well oiled machine. It is interesting anyway to hear you say that IR took a tune and embellished it because the detractors on the other hand love to accuse him of using great orchestration to cover poor tunes.
So in toto, I think IR defies easy generalising when it comes down to it but because he did everything without disturbing the established film song structure, it is very easy to do so. Rojavai Thalattum Thendral SOUNDS like a typical film song but no right minded film music director would kickstart a romantic duet with tabla playing disorienting odd time signatures. But then it resolves in a flash and returns to what is more familiar. IR at the time didn’t want to drag listeners too far out their comfort zone; that is why Sattru Munbu could only happen in 2012 and not in the 1980s.
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brangan
May 31, 2016
Sorry, just figured out a cleaner way to address the issue of many comments making the page tough to load. Now I have restricted the number of comments to 20 per page. Older comments appear as a link.
Copy-pasting the comments from the second link here.
Madan said:
May 30, 2016
@ complicateur: “When one says one is a huuuge fan or both implied somewhere is that you place them on equal pedestal.” – At least I didn’t imply it. But I didn’t imply either that I would NEVER do that. I would have to go case by case. If you asked me to choose between Lata and Asha, I can’t. One hated cabaret songs and the other made a living out of them. As between IR and ARR, I can choose one IF I am made to choose only one. But I would rather be able to listen to my favourite songs of both composers.
“All I’m saying is THAT isn’t possible.” – For you, perhaps but not everyone thinks that way. Anything is possible, really, in the realm of opinions as they aren’t bound by cold logic.
“Also, my thought process isn’t really grounded in any raaga based sentiment.” – Care to elaborate what, in that case?
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brangan
May 31, 2016
brangan said:
complicateur: I don’t understand this pedestal business. Unless one is into those pointless who-is-greater arguments, why construct pedestals? Why not just be grateful for the music, enjoy the bounty?
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brangan
May 31, 2016
Vighnesh Hampapura said:
May 30, 2016
Does this post of now have the highest comments? That’s Ilaiyaraaja! 🙂
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brangan
May 31, 2016
blurb said:
May 30, 2016
It might be nice if the comments followed a stack structure with the most recent one piling up at the top.
blurb said:
May 30, 2016
WHAT?! Did the structure just change? 🙂 Thanks.
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brangan
May 31, 2016
Tambi Dude said:
May 31, 2016
Rangan: Just on the technical side. Does wordpress give you an option to show preview of comments (say first 5 lines). And if anyone wants to read further, they can click on “Read more” link below the 5th line. This has following advantages:
1 – on posts with 200+ comments, page loads faster and it is much more noticeable on mobile devices.
2 – saves the trouble of reading comments we are not interested in. Hopefully first 5 lines would be like “yannai varum pinnai, mani osai varum munnai” kinda warning:-)
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brangan
May 31, 2016
Tambi Dude said:
May 31, 2016
@madan/rothrocks:
“IMO RDB represented the first stage of moving away from the pattern of the old Hindi composers who composed a tune and then worked out some interludes that went well along with it. RDB began to use chords, exotic percussion, just about any sound that he thought would work. But with RD it seemed to be a little chaotic/improvised whereas IR rolled it all together in one cohesive, flowing style, like a well oiled machine. ”
I am quite a fan of RDB (specially the ones he ghost-composed for his dad), but I think RD’s selling point was the flow of the tune. He was exceptionally smooth in mukadas and antaras. His orchestration was good too, though he was better in sound engineering.
That said, he was so stuck with simple tunes that it was easy to get bored with his songs after some time. OTOH I also dislike ARR style of complex tunes which seem to go on and on and serves no purpose. Not everyone can be like Salil Da or IR to create masterly not-so-simple tunes.
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brangan
May 31, 2016
Raghu said:
May 31, 2016
“Now to the phenomenon of why it needs multiple listens to get the full beauty of a Rahman composition.” – Maybe true for the first few listens (I still don’t see any evidence myself).. In the long run, I actually feel opposite.. More I listen to a ARR’s song, the less I enjoy that song either due to monotonous patterns or due to less engaging tune.. You kind of wondering why you liked that song initially. Of course there are exceptions which remain timeless songs.. IMO, his best songs are where tune and orchestration is simple with captivating rhythm. When he tries too much (with tune or layering), I feel like the tune and orchestration are not tight enough.. Thats one of the reasons I think most of his post 2000 songs are not that good.
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brangan
May 31, 2016
Naveen said:
May 31, 2016
BR, did you chop off almost a week’s worth of comments? after may 21 it jumps to 30 May. most of our listings happened in this window. why this vengeance boss😉
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brangan
May 31, 2016
Naveen said:
May 31, 2016
somebody commented about IR-Vali being less than Ir-VM. numbers might have been less, but Vali is really from mythology. his longevity and ability to collaborate from MSV to Anirudh is amazing. may of IR’s top notch songs are actually Vali’s – Chinna Thaayaval, Sri Ranga Ranga Nadhanim paadam, Om Shivo Om, some of Kaadhal Oviyam, Janani Janani etc. i am sure there are many which general pubic considers as VM’s are actually Vaali’s.
all the sanskrit parts in IR’s were mostly contributed by Vali
the comments after 21-May are in reverse chrono order
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brangan
May 31, 2016
sanjana said:
May 31, 2016
So first come is last seen.
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brangan
May 31, 2016
Aravindan said:
May 31, 2016
Nithya – Thank you very much! Not just for the lovely comment but you made me to listen to Oru Sandhana KaattukkuLLE. I had always somehow overlooked this song. Forget about digging and finding gems, there are so many in plain sight that suddenly reveal themselves. I had quite a week already, vaLLi varappORA, rAkku muththu rAkku, mannavA mannavA, pAsamuLLa pAndiyaru.. listening to them after SO long and wondering why am I not listening to them more often. But oru sandhanakkAttukkuLLE tops everything else.
also – would gladly recommend the official YouTube channel. They do a great job.
(https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCVlWr_LN9y80smEMr0KTBOA?)
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Savitha Krushnen
May 31, 2016
thanks for reminding the songs I grew up with. did some digging and got back these sweet memories onto my disk. Sadly my boys don’t share my excitement ,..the generation gap ?
As we are talking of music, I observed that in tamil we have songs for fight scenes like varavaa varavva…,then, naan adicha thangamataen…Does this happen in Bollywood or others? Do some research.
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Naveen
May 31, 2016
happened to see Thyagarajan’s foto on old mag and remided of malayoor mampattiyan
the “Roja ondru mutham ketkum neram”, such mood elevating mayajaal of a song, completely takes you into a dreamy world that only kollywood writers can create. this movie also has “kaatu vazhi pora ponne kavalapadadhe” also sang by IR.
talking of Transcendental songs, the following songs suddenly kindle a kind of spirituality in me, all from Sri Raghavendra
Rama namam on vedame
Azhaikiran madhvan
Aadal kalaye devan thandadhu
other good songs that i happened to come across. skipped quite a few “not worth to be in my top 10/20” songs .
Gangai karai mannanadi – varsham 16
Kanna nee enge – rusi kanda poongai
vaarayo vaanmathi – Pagal nilavu
Poovile medai – Pagal Nilavu
Aathu mettule, enakkoru paathu ketudhu
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Madan
May 31, 2016
“but I think RD’s selling point was the flow of the tune.” – Well, I don’t think he was particularly remarkable in this regard for that era, esp considering the composers he succeeded. I think his selling point was rhythm, both percussion and rhythm guitar. Also a lot bolder in attitude; others hadn’t tried to compose songs like Gulabi Ankhen or Lekar Hum Deewana Dil. He used to absolutely break free and rock out on songs like those, which must have been a revelation at the time.
Also while Salilda did often use Western orchestration in an ‘authentic’ way (esp compared to his contemporaries), what IR has done is still more advanced. As I mentioned in an earlier post, nobody has tried to build songs simultaneously with Indian melody and Western harmony. And Western harmony here doesn’t mean just lush symphonic orchestral passages; that was already done before. Rather, the idea of telling a musical story through the chords themselves. Western songwriters would start strumming some chords and then vocalise a melody over it. Somehow in IR’s music that vocal melody turns out to be Indian while still underpinned by a harmonic progression well beyond the scope of traditional Indian music. Nobody else has really done this (except perhaps by imitating IR) probably because it’s very difficult. Kannan Vandhu Paduginran/Oru Poongavanam among other songs are great examples of this where you could just mute out the vocals and listen to the chords and still find a coherent and independent composition.
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Ravi
May 31, 2016
@Naveen,
Roja ondru mutham – awesome melody, from Komberi Mookan whereas Kaatu Vazhi Pora Ponne from Malayur Mambattiyan.
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sachita
May 31, 2016
Sorry, I do seem to be tagging the songs by the era. I did think uruvugal thodarkathai was by MSV before this comment section. Need to replace those ones with,
poove sempoove – universally liked from an unknown movie.
And keladi kanmani
Also, I dont get the need to constantly bring A R Rahman into this discussion as a comparison esp. when his music apparently doesnt work for you. (narayana… narayana as Naradhar would say)
And Vaali versus Vairamuthu: There is such a beauty to the tamil that vairamuthu uses that i never find it in Vaali or others( dont throw nethu rathiri yamma in my face, I am obv talking about songs where the lyrics were required to play a better part).
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brangan
May 31, 2016
sachita: I agree. In the 80s, Vairamuthu was the best Raja got. Their songs together are such genius. (Of course, with exceptions.) His voice was still fresh, and he could do wonders with even crap love songs (i.e. songs with nothing really situational… it’s just to depict love, so it’s really hard to write lyrics to). Vaali was not a patch on him.
Of course, Vaali in the 60s and 70s (especially the MGR songs) was something else altogether. One of my favourite “crap love songs” is Pakkathu veettu paruva machan…
Pakkathu veettu
paruva machan
paarvayile
padam pudichan
I have never heard anyone talk of “sight adichifying” with such lyrical alliteration 🙂
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complicateur
May 31, 2016
BR / Madan: My points are ONLY relevant in a ‘who is greater?’ exercise – pointless or otherwise. 🙂
I find the ‘who is greater’ evaluation is an interesting personal exercise that helps define my artistic preferences. Of course it matter to a grand total of no one. But I find it interesting and do it with T.M.Krishna and Thom Yorke, apples and oranges… whatever.
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Tambi Dude
May 31, 2016
@madan: “Also a lot bolder in attitude; others hadn’t tried to compose songs like Gulabi Ankhen or Lekar Hum Deewana Dil. He used to absolutely break free and rock out on songs like those, which must have been a revelation at the time.”
Take these two songs as an example of smooth flow:
I agree about the unique quality of IR’s music. That’s why he was great. That’s why this thread is approaching 400 comments 🙂
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Ash
May 31, 2016
Regarding the speech that Raaja gave at Rahman’s Oscar function – initially I also felt that he was talking out of context. But seeing it now, I feel that he was doing that to bring light to the years of great work Rahman’s predecessors in Indian music have done. As someone mentioned, Rahman very seldom acknowledges his predecessors while talking about music. All he would say is they are very disciplined, very religious etc. before going on to tell stories about his English music likings. He never.. never ever acknowledges the history of Indian music before his time. I don’t understand why he doesn’t.
I feel that, it is to this fact that Raaja wanted to address his seniors in the field before praising Rahman. After all nobody gives praises and stays humble to seniors other than Raaja when it comes to music.
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ampulimama
May 31, 2016
since we were talking about IR’s sound quality impacting greatness of many of the songs, listen to the below remasterd version in IR’s official channel especially with a good headphone. the clarity of various intruments and the richness…
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VenkateswaranGanesan (@_Drunkenmunk)
May 31, 2016
On lyricists-Raaja, will peddle my two cents here 🙂 I find Gangai Amaran-Raaja combo to be massively underrated. Often because a LOT of the songs written by Gangai are thought to have been written by VM. Created a playlist of the songs written by GA https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLn4GJpNVAHex-BOgiP11QWqCcoPrVtCoU do just give it a glance. More than Gangai the music director, his real due needs to be given as a lyricist IMO. Of course, VM with Raaja, especially in songs like Manidha Manidha is blazing brilliance. But I do have an issue with VM’s sense of Osai nayam. I always find Vaali much better there. Again, that seems to be pretty much Raaja’s music philosophy itself, that music itself should be able to convey the complete emotion/narration/message in a song and lyrics IS secondary in importance compared to music. Something which a lot of eminent people agree with (remember hearing Semmangudi saying something similar once) and Raaja looks at Osai nayam over creative excellence in each song. Would explain why he got along brilliantly with Kannadasan (who in addition to top class Osai nayam ALSO brought creative excellent regularly). He explains the Osai nayam in Koondhalile Megam Vandhu (what a song!) here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2t6ZiX3DtE lyrical/creative excellence is a bonus. That is his approach. And it is perfectly understandable that people who value lyrics as much as or above music would be upset. But hey, Raaja himself is an outstanding poet and has written some brilliant songs (Pichai Paathiram Endhi Vandhen (note the Osai nayam there. It’s a perfect stitch in every line :), Isaiyil Thodangudhamma to name a couple).
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blurb
June 1, 2016
My top-10 (of course, the disclaimer that this list is what I feel like right now :))
Aside: Raja’s erotic numbers are just unparalleled!
Senorita – Jhonny — A.K.A THE BEST SONG EVER COMPOSED 😀
En Iniya Pon Nilave –
Siva Raathiri, Thookam Pochu – MMKR
Nethu Rathiri Yemma – Sakalaka Vallavan
Adikudhu Kuliru – Mannan
Vizhiyile – Bhuvana Oru Kelvi Kuri
Uravenum Pudhiya Vanil – Nenjathai Killadhe
Paruvame – Nenjathai Killadhe
Endha Poovilum – Morrattu Kaalai
Selai Kattum Penukkoru – Kodi Parakudhu
BONUS: Mari Mari Ninne. So, I’ll attribute the Saramati one to Ilayaraja, and the Khamboji one to Thyagaraja 🙂
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Prem
June 1, 2016
In Idhu Namma Aalu the Nayantara character talks about going on long drives while humming along to Raja songs and she is shown humming two lines of a song, can somebody please tell me which song that is?
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MANK
June 1, 2016
Brangan, it is nice that you limited the no. of comments in a page to 20, it was taking a lot of time for the page to load earlier. But there is a problem with this format IMO. its ok when you are continuously following the comments thread , so you get a continuum of the subject discussed. but if somebody is new to this post , he is going to get only the latest comments right?, so they will have to keep on scrolling backwards to find it out the links to the earlier comment.that’s not a comfortable situation
is there any option where we can show the number of pages and we can skip directly to that page say first or last. If i am reading a post for the first time, i would like to read the first batch of comments first and then move on to the next.
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MANK
June 1, 2016
Ash, yeah i feel the same way too. i am quite surprised at the extreme attacks on IR’s speech. the basic point that everybody picked up was that, he made such a long winding speech and spoke very briefly about Rahman. But the point is that he gave such a long speech because he wanted to acknowledge the musical legacy of all other great indian composers. he wanted to make the connection between that an ARR ‘s oscar achievement which i believe is perfectly fair . otherwise he could have just said the things he wanted to about Rahman for 5 minutes and done with it. i didnt find him miserly in appreciating Rahman either.. he spoke about how somebody going from here and winning 2 oscars at the very first attempt itself in the midst of such greats like John williams who won 4 oscars over a period of 40 years or so. Also loved how he placed the composer in the context of the award and said that the composer is more important that the award , that it doesnt matter whether he or MSV did not win it because he values the composer more than the award.
I am not saying that IR is pure as snow, his speech at Pazhassiraja music launch criticizing the great poet ONV for substandard lyrics was in rather bad taste. but i suppose we celebrate the artist and his music rather than man. and all artists are flawed human beings and geniuses are more so.
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Naveen
June 1, 2016
blub, did u leave out Nila kaayudhu in the erotic list
regarding VM, i strongly felt he was often ( well, many times ) close to being vulgar and titillating with double meaning words describing anatomy or making love. so many songs, which become gems due to IR music often had an adolescent level lyrics. it is like a cameraman keeping camera at breast/waist level rather than at the face level of the female stars, which was common during Puliyur saroja days. mentioning just a couple of too obvious ones ( Raathiriyul poothirukkum, Nadhiyil aadum poovanam, Thoongadha vizhigal rendu…. ). IR makes everybody listen to those like they are gaaytri mantra or subrapadham, unmindful of the lyrics. Nila kaayudhe was obvious and explicit at the least.
Ofcourse VM is the given who gave Vaanam Enakkoru bodhi maram, but to me Vaali is a greater legend like one straight out of Ramayana or Mahabs characters.
Sundari Neeyum, Chinna Thaayaval, China china vanna kuyil, mandram vandha, Nilave vaa were all from Vaali. So while IR had soft corner for V and literally brought V as a package to MR, VM got in after Roja and IR was away from MR. As of date, IMO, best of MR in terms of lyrics is still Vaali’s time and not likely to change soon with focus moving out to listen ability of lyrics even in MR movies. this is all my perception, as we really would not know what happened between those great talents.
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rothrocks
June 1, 2016
@ MANK The thing is there was a hint of a grudging tone when he said ARR got not one but two Oscars. He added in the end, “Ana Nammalukku kedaichudhu”. Which is to suggest Slumdog didn’t deserve it but after all an Indian composer got it so it was ok. I don’t disagree with the sentiment but that was not the right forum to air those views. I usually get bored of politically correct sweet nothings but at times IR is better off saying those than speaking his mind. To be clear, I am not attacking him. I just feel sad as a fan that he walks into baits and gets into trouble over his soundbytes. He deserves better and certainly being prudent in a Cine Musicians Union felicitation is not too much to ask.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
June 1, 2016
blurb: Kodi Parakkuthu was done by Hamsalekha, a Kannada composer. I’m surprised that BR hasn’t pointed out yet; it’s among his all-time favourites. 🙂
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
June 1, 2016
‘Andha Nilavathaan’ from Muthal Mariyathai is easily the best erotic song (in terms of lyrics) in Tamil cinema.
Naveen: There’s one more song in Kana Kanden. It’s tough to believe that a lyricist like VM has written such songs.
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Rahini David
June 1, 2016
MANK: Also loved how he placed the composer in the context of the award and said that the composer is more important that the award
Our society is too used to “He is a legend and I am proud of him” speeches that this sounds like “I didn’t get an Oscar, but I am greater” to most people.
I don’t follow these interviews/speeches but as Madan was saying, is it too much to ask that he just say generous stuff and leave it at that?
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Naveen
June 1, 2016
i recollect a kannada movie “Nammoora mandhaara hoove” which had a bunch of very good songs that were super hits. ofcourse there is an old SPB song from which this title derives
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brangan
June 1, 2016
rothrocks: In a strange way, his arrogance or ego or whatever is IMO a testament to his ability to make great music. Because people will not tolerate this kind of behaviour from someone who wasn’t a genius.
But that said, stories of his ego are legendary. A few years back, I interviewed a lit of people and collected a lot of material for a music project. I was surprised that even the ones who gushed about Raja on stage had such bad things to say about him (not his music, his personality). One legendary director of the 80s said that Raja predicted that, like Beethoven and Bach, his era would be known as the Ilayaraja era. 😊 Another one who debuted in 1990 said how Raja tossed out the great lyrics he’d commisoned and said people want only the music, so maane/thene will do 😊
Of course, it’s all one person’s words. But after speaking to so many people, you do come off thinking there’s no smoke without fire.
Which again adds to my earlier point that the very fact that people with such grudges kept going back to him is proof of his genius. Because filmmakers have huge egos and they wouldn’t tolerate this otherwise.
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MANK
June 1, 2016
Which again adds to my earlier point that the very fact that people with such grudges kept going back to him is proof of his genius. Because filmmakers have huge egos and they wouldn’t tolerate this otherwise.
Brangan , that’s correct. its how Marlon Brando was perceived all throughout his life, being crazy,difficult , troublesome. but the same people would fall over one another to pay him 10 mill $ just for a 10 min appearance. Laurence Olivier famously said that “Theater doesn’t have room for geniuses , they are just a lot of trouble”. i am sure all Geniuses have great egos. and , they end up creating a lot of trouble for others and most often for themselves. No wonder everyone from Mozart to Brando end up self destructing.
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brangan
June 1, 2016
I’m not sure what to do about the display. This WordPress template has links to only “older comments” and “newer comments,” not to the very beginning. Would it help if I increased the number of comments being displayed?
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
June 1, 2016
This might interest you all:
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
June 1, 2016
Another one who debuted in 1990 said how Raja tossed out the great lyrics he’d commisoned and said people want only the music, so maane/thene will do
Sometime back during a concert, he dissed Kannadasan/Vaali to praise MSV. Can’t recall the tune though – some 60s song which goes like this: ‘Thamarai Poo….’
Vasanth? 🙂
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Naveen
June 1, 2016
i read an interesting extrapolation of ARR’s Oscar homecoming interview where he said that oscar has a certain process to reach them and our composers did not try that. the commentor said that even though Titatnic was global phenomenon, it did not get our national awards or even filmfare, not even Nandhi or Kalaimamani. ARR got it for a hollywood production. our other composers did not work on a much publicised hollywood project so far.Aamir and Kamal convey similar thoughts when asked about their Oscar attempts. even by ARR’s standards, Slumdog pales in comparison to his Bombay or Dil Se. so ARR knows that his getting Oscar does not put him on a pedestal but makes a big differnce in this age where hollywood corporates make big ticket investments in Indian movies – eros, sony, fox studios etc.
it is unfair to compare IR with anybody, unfair to both parties.
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MANK
June 1, 2016
this sounds like “I didn’t get an Oscar, but I am greater” to most people.
Rahini, Oh god, does it appear like that to most people. i didn’t think of that angle at all. i have always been very dubious about these awards even the oscars, and i am terribly against calculating an artists worth merely by the number of the awards or the fact that an award add any special value to an artistic creation or a work of art is any less worthy just because it does not win any awards. so i was coming form there actually and i thought that was what IR was hinting at, when he put the worth of the artist over the award .
should he had just said some generous stuff – about Rahman, his music and the honor – and left it at that, well probably yes, that would have been just fine, but thats problem with geniuses, they just don’t think like the rest of us. you can say similar things about Rahman too there. you know, when he was been felicitated by IR- if it was anybody else- he would have bowed down , touched IR’S feet , may be embraced him and so on, but he was giving an irreverent display of emotions.not that i am a fan of public display of respect and sweetness , but am just saying. these people do have their quirks and eccentricities. and within that IR’s speech was okay.
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MANK
June 1, 2016
This WordPress template has links to only “older comments” and “newer comments,”
Brangan, thats a pity. yeah may be you can increase number of comments to 50 a page. that would be much better IMO
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Rahini David
June 1, 2016
BR: 50 comments per page is a better number. Even 75 is good. Please, please. 😀
MANK: Well I am distantly reminded of a quote that goes, expecting talented + successful people to be humble is like asking someone to be sober after drinking all day. 🙂
The annoying part of judging people based on awards is that people assume that IR must be jealous. And then decide what thought he would have had in his mind. Some time people say that Kamal acted like a ___ in an interview and when I ask what he did, they say something related to not being effusive enough about Rajini. Why should he be? He is civil enough. Isn’t that enough?
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MANK
June 1, 2016
they say something related to not being effusive enough about Rajini
Rahini :), yeah i have seen in interview after interview , kamal being plied with the same rajni question, because Rajni doesnt do interviews, its always upto Kamal to keep their relationship status updated.i have also noticed that he pretty much give the same set of answers to the question – my favorite is that both he and rajni are like rival team captains who give it all on the field while they remain friends off field.i suppose that isnt enough to satisfy the die hard rajni fan.
And reg:Well I am distantly reminded of a quote that goes, expecting talented + successful people to be humble is like asking someone to be sober after drinking all day
Thats correct,the fact is that . for people like IR , their musical genius is not just craftsmanship, it is a distinct part of their persona, so we give him all the kudos for his genius for weaving sheer magic out of simple tunes and orchestration and so on, but after he is done that we expect him to behave regularly and normally like the rest of us in other facets of life. i dont think thats possible for them even if they try. i am not saying Talented people cannot be humble. there are many egs, Rajni is a very humble person, Mohammed Rafi was well known for his humility and modesty.but in the case of artists , thats more an exception than a rule.
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Tambi Dude
June 1, 2016
@rangan: “I was surprised that even the ones who gushed about Raja on stage had such bad things to say about him (not his music, his personality).”
This should not come as a surprise. I will tell you an interesting story. In late summer of 1993 I was in Chennai. By then Gentleman was already a big hit (both movie and the music). My cousin showed me the tamil edition of India Today. In an article stinking with the smell of schadenfreude, the author was gloating that IR era was coming to an abrupt end.
Apparently if a singer tries to embellish something, he will yell at him to stick to the agreed notes and any further argument will result in an insulting question “yo, nee music director aa, ilLe naa va”. When singer Karthik received this wonderful archanai from him, he apparently said “aiyo saami idhu la vanDa”.
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Tambi Dude
June 1, 2016
correction: I would say more like comeuppance than schadenfreude.
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Madan
June 1, 2016
“Because people will not tolerate this kind of behaviour from someone who wasn’t a genius.” – Yeah and besides egoistic people aren’t a rare species per se in the industry. Kishore Kumar was pretty eccentric too and his eccentricity is usually celebrated rather than derided. I think – I am just guessing – it may have something to do with his saintly appearance. Plus, tall poppy syndrome. When somebody is so all round brilliant, people have to look for the one chink in his armour. I came across this theory once that people feel inclined to pick holes in the technique of high pitched female singers singing over a large range (hence why Joan Sutherland’s diction used to be criticised even though it wasn’t a MAJOR issue). IR doesn’t even have THAT, as in an obvious musical flaw so his personality becomes an easy target.
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Madan
June 1, 2016
“i have always been very dubious about these awards even the oscars, and i am terribly against calculating an artists worth merely by the number of the awards or the fact that an award add any special value to an artistic creation” – I agree with you and frankly don’t consider the Oscars, esp the music awards in Oscars, to be very important. But, again, if you have decided to felicitate somebody for getting an Oscar, you don’t want to talk about THAT or that other composer simply didn’t get films that could be taken to the Oscars. As valid as those considerations may be, to point them out in the function itself appears to detract from the value of the award which is not a very nice thing to do. Anyway, I don’t like to dwell on IR’s dubious soundbytes but since the matter came up, I had to state my position on it. Right idea, but wrong place.
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Madan
June 1, 2016
“One legendary director of the 80s said that Raja predicted that, like Beethoven and Bach, his era would be known as the Ilayaraja era. ” – I dare say that that would have been a worthy epithet for the man who salvaged the musical wasteland that was the 80s. 🙂 I mean, in terms of songwriting quality, who was his competition? Maybe Paddy McAloon (certainly nobody from India imo)? Speaking of which, Paddy McAloon, at the time of the release of Steve McQueen, called his songwriting “the best in the planet”. How’s that for modesty? I think great entertainers should be allowed to call themselves great if they so wish and certainly internet keyboard warriors may be so magnanimous as to grant them permission?
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Madan
June 1, 2016
“Apparently if a singer tries to embellish something, he will yell at him to stick to the agreed notes” – That’s kind of similar to Hitchcock’s view that actors are cattle. I understand that singers may find so much control suffocating but if the composer has a vision, he would want to see to it that it is realised in toto. We can’t question why the composer put what note where, presumably he knows. By the by, why Ilayaraja, let me tell you that when once I had the opportunity to sing at a cultural event in my org with a band of pro musicians, they used to exert complete control over us. They would censor even my good variations and force me to follow the original song to the note. Ahem, the one time I pointed out where they were differing in the instrumentation from the original, they agreed immediately without argument but still drifted off script in the final stage performance. So, this urge to control is not an unique trait of IR and in fact many managers in India Inc also exhibit this. Maybe ARR is different, going by the various accounts of his working style. But then, he also obtains starting point for charanam from Nithyashree :P; we have at least never heard of IR leaning on his singers to help him out in the tune.
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Tambi Dude
June 1, 2016
@madan: From what I have read about music directors (both hindi and tamil), IR was unique in his non-negotiable attitude towards the agreed tune/notes.
Long time back, SPB was asked to mentioned his favorite MDs and he mentioned, among other MDs, MSV and RDB. IR was glaringly missing in that list. It became such a point of discussion that SPB was forced to clarify his position. That’s where he mentioned that IR never allowed him to improvise or embellish where-as other MDs were bit generous with him and that was his way of getting back to him. Clearly he tried to convert his original comment into a facetious statement, which may very well be true. After all they both always had “vaa-da, po-da” kinda close relationship, beyond such spats.
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Ash
June 1, 2016
@Madan: “But then, he also obtains starting point for charanam from Nithyashree😛; we have at least never heard of IR leaning on his singers to help him out in the tune”
Precisely. But then these are the people who go hung ho on their name being mentioned in credits. The same people complain when they don’t get credited when the whole work was done by the composer and their job was just to sing. They can’t even do that properly.
When I’m asked to do a job with requirements I am getting paid to follow the requirements and produce a good product. Not to go on my own journey making modifications. Then u are basically adulterating the composer’s vision. This is where Raaja stands out from others in composing.
But then we’ve also read about Raaja offering freedom to singers like SPB to yodel in some instances when necessary.
I like how u said that people resort to personality assassination, when in their field of expertise one clearly stands out tall.
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apala
June 2, 2016
These are few of Mottai’s badly engineered or badly visualized (or both!)…………..
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Tambi Dude
June 2, 2016
@madan: you want to see the genius of RDB. Check this movie. Wait until 1min 45 seconds when the credit starts. Listen to the music (specially the humming). RDB reused it as a rocking song in 1970s. Totally different than the title music.
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Madan
June 2, 2016
@ Tambi Dude: Yeah, basically IR used to monitor even all the little sangidhis and if they were not the ones he had taught the singer, he would ask the singer to stop. I think the singers were unfamiliar and uncomfortable with that level of control. I was just trying to make a point that control in itself is not very unique when it comes to directors and composers (the only people in art who have to depend on others to fulfill their vision, as opposed to writers, singer-songwriters etc). Donald Fagen of Steely Dan was nicknamed Mother (unsaid but implied F-suffix? ;)) by the sessions musicians (and these were outstanding musicians, among the best in the biz) for his insistence on making them record a take again and again (upwards of 50 often times) until he was satisfied with the outcome. That control is more symptomatic of possessiveness towards one’s creation than ego imo (though the same composer may also be egoistic). Whether it is a good or a bad thing is very difficult to say. Ideally, the composer should find a balance between control and letting the singer express because singers function best when they are relaxed and allowed to give free rein to their expression. But again, as was said in the earlier comments, the same qualities that make him a brilliant composer also affect his working and communication style in ways that are not always desirable.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
June 2, 2016
IR and MR have been praised and dissed in this thread for the past few days. Just realised that they both celebrate their birthdays today!
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Naveen
June 2, 2016
i stumbled upon a few good songs, not too much in circulation
1.Adhi Kaalai, subha velai un olai vandhadhu – Natpu
2. Adhikalai nera kaatre, vaazhthu sollu – Bhagawathipuram Railway gate
3.Alli thanga bhoomi anna allava, solli thantha vaanam thanthai allava – Guru?
4. Siriya paravai siragu virikka thudikiradhe – andha oru nimidam ( this movie has a few forgettable template songs too )
btw, today is The maestro’s bday.
BR, where is RamMurali, is he in disguise here?
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Ananth
June 2, 2016
Last year, The Hindu Tamil came out with a series of articles by V.Chandramohan titled “காற்றில் கலந்த இசை” . It had a nice commentary and was well received by the readers. The author did a fantastic job as an “archaeologist”. I found quite a few hidden gems from there.
This is the link to the last article (40th) in the series.
http://tamil.thehindu.com/cinema/cinema-others/article8167322.ece
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MANK
June 2, 2016
I had to state my position on it. Right idea, but wrong place.*
Madan, that’s fair enough
And reg: stories of his arrogance or Egotism, i suppose that’s why even his die hard patrons jumped ship at the first opportune moment -when they found a new brilliant,humble collaborative kid like ARR . the speed at which all his regular filmmakers like MR,KB,BR et all deserted him shows that they were just waiting for someone to put them out of the misery on dealing with IR.By the end of 90’s ARR, had infiltrated the entire IR camp including Rajni and Kamal
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brangan
June 2, 2016
apala and others: A request. Please do not keep adding YouTube links if there are many songs you’re alluding to. Just a mention of the names would do.
If it’s just one song/video, it’s fine, but many videos becomes a problem.
Thank you.
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Naveen
June 2, 2016
@MANK KB, BR were already losing the grip on the viewers. MR had to move out of IR bcos of KB, who was Roja’s producer. MR has mentioned that he would like to work with IR again if has a script that can challenge IR. IR continued to collaborate with newer directors and continued his relevance though dominance was over by then. we again get into peak time IR Vs later days IR discussion which is what most of this thread is
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Madan
June 2, 2016
@ Tambidude: I wonder if the original title also had been contributed by RD.
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Madan
June 2, 2016
“KB, BR were already losing the grip on the viewers.” – Maybe so but they still did score with Duet and Karuthamma and those soundtracks would have otherwise gone to IR. And I think Mani is being polite about the possibility of partnering IR again. He has had a fruitful collaboration with ARR for years now and is unlikely to want to upset the apple cart. If the KB factor had been the only reason behind their split, don’t you think Mani would have spoken at the NEPV launch/Ilayaraja Ayiram? Not only that didn’t happen, IR also taunted the Oru Poongavanam scene in the NEPV launch and has blasted GV in some answers he gave on Ilayarajavai Kellungal (without naming him but the inference was obvious). I think over a period of time, long standing partnerships do fall apart. It happens to everyone. Didn’t Sridhar desert MSV and join the IR bandwagon? In fact KB did too. On the other hand, Balu Mahendra and Fazil stuck with IR all through. So as difficult as he may have been, possibly not everyone found him impossible to handle either. Kamal too has intermittently collaborated with IR.
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sachita
June 3, 2016
For those explaining and defending Illayaraja speech at Ar rahman’s felicitation, just imagine the reverse scenario, Ar Rahman same speech on Illayaraja, would you have viewed it as distasteful or come up with this same explanation about placing it in the context of the music.
I dont judge Raja for that speech, his speech is quite understandable even. But it definitely was not a celebratory one.
I also dont understand this need to deify some one and expecting them to perfect in all aspects, especially when these aspects are irrelevant to what they are celebrated for.
How does personality aspect really play in a way I enjoy chinna thai eval/ tons of other songs from him.
Maniratnam said in the interview that how if you end up missing an input before illayaraja starts his background score, you pretty much miss the boat. That is just his polite way of saying what frustrated him as a director. For some other director this would have been fine.
But that interview was the first time I heard somebody articulate the contrasting styles of Illayaraja and Ar or even just the way Ilayaraja functions.
I got goosebumps just imagining the scenario MR described in that interview, all of these instrumentalists crowding/scampering around him and getting the notes, playing it to perfect harmony.
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Ravi K
June 3, 2016
Was Echo Recording Company owned by Ilaiyaraaja? They released the vast majority of his output in the 80s and early 90s, and, aside from the rare MSV or Shankar-Ganesh album, most of their output is by him.
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Tambi Dude
June 3, 2016
@madan: yes I have no doubt that RDB scored the title music of Sujata. SDB was one of those MDs who had little to no interest in things like BGM of a movie. I read that he hardly cared for interlude music in a song.
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Tambi Dude
June 3, 2016
@Madan : Lot of stories float around as what prompted MR to leave IR after Dalapathy. But few things remain constant in those stories:
1 – Right after Dalapathy was released MR decided to leave IR. So it was not as if
MR decided to leave IR only after he met ARR.
2 – MR was offended and hurt by IR”s remark about Dalapathy.
Also MR was introduced to ARR by someone who knew him as a top notch jingle man. At the time of their meeting ARR was not considering film music as a career.
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Yaja Sri
June 3, 2016
Money Ratnam is a Brutus, a back stabber.
If there was no IR, he would have ended as one more failed director with Anu pallavi and Idhaya koil music by some one else. They are worst movies movies with Greatest Songs.
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Yaja Sri
June 3, 2016
Ravi K. Yes. Echo was owned by IR. But do not recall his stake % in it.
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Yaja Sri
June 3, 2016
Some one mentioned that ARR as humble kid. lol!!! It is also true that cunning fellows speak few words. Also Sony marketing has to give a write up to speak of good words about peers or prior generation MDs.
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Tambi Dude
June 3, 2016
@yaja sri: Oh Cmon, after 24 yrs, ARR has practically no enemies. By his 10th-12th year, the list of enemies of IR was very long. On this count, ARR simple crushes IR.
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Yaja Sri
June 3, 2016
Tambi Enna Sowkiama!! IR –> Gunam irukkum Idathil Thaan Kobam Irukkum. It is a well known fact. Business minded thieves will act and say things what Tambis’ want to hear. ARR acts like politicians. Listen to his conversion topic. How he does not tell truth. ARR words in one interview: MY mother is a practicing Hindu”. He never said his mother was born, raised as a Muslim and so we converted”.
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Yaja Sri
June 3, 2016
IR –> Gunam irukkum Idathil Thaan Kobam Irukkum. It is a well known fact. And ARR is opposite, ARR belongs to “Never trust quiet guy”.
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Ananth
June 3, 2016
Let me list out some songs that have become my favourites in the last few years.
Vazhumattum nanmaikkaga – Film: Kaali (Kannadasan & IR both at their best)
Adi aadu poonguyile – Film: Kaali
Vachcha Parvai theerathadi – Film: Ilamai Kolam (KJ’s ‘Adi ye aatha aathorama”!)
Sindhu Nathikaraiorum – Film: Nallathoru Kudumbam (Sivaji song)
Oru Kunguma senkamalam – Film: Aaraadanai
Aapakada annakili – Film: Paayum Puli
Pothukkitu oothuthadi vaanam – Film: Paayum Puli
Amman koil kilzhakaale – Film: Sakalakalaa Vallavan (IR title song)
Velakku vachcha nerathile maman – Film: Munthaanai mudichi (Probably IR’s the best title song)
Athimara poovithu – Film: Saathanai (Another Sivaji movie with great songs)
Oh vaanambadi unai – Film: Saathanai
Mottu vita mullai kodi – Film: Indru nee nalai naan (Janaki at her best)
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Ravi K
June 3, 2016
As a consumer, I really don’t care what kind of character flaws my favorite artists have. As long as they aren’t murderers or pedophiles or something, their personalities don’t affect my enjoyment of their work. If I had to work with them I might only be able to put up with them for so long, though.
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Madan
June 3, 2016
@ Tambidude: From that era, only Salil da took a lot of interest in the BGM. Maybe Naushad too. Afterwards RDB also used to come up with good BGMs. I do want to say one thing about the Sujata title converted into song, though. IR did the same by converting a BGm bit from Paa to Ishq E Phillum for Shamitabh. Ostensibly at Balki’s behest. My point being for a composer reusing a passage of music in an entirely different light is not necessarily something very difficult. I do give props to RD that he did it tastefully; he always did.
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Shreekrishna Prasad
June 14, 2016
@BR : As mentioned by many, I am one of your so-called silent followers for the past two years. But this top ten favourite songs of IR challenge has prompted me to write for the first time! 😀
Here’s the top ten favourite songs of a Rahman-rasigan, Raja-Veriyan:
(in no particular order)
Isaiyil Thondagudamma – Hey Ram
Sundari Kannal oru Seidhi – Thalapathy
Poo Poothadu – Mumbai Express (A highly underrated post-2000 song of IR)
Nilave Vaa – Mouna Ragam
Ninnu Kori – Agni Natchathiram
Janani Janani – Thai Mookambigai
Potri Paadadi Ponne – Thevar Magan
Neethane En Ponvasantham – Ninaivellam Nithya
Thenmadurai Vaigainadhi – Dharmathin Thalaivan
Poongatru Thirumbuma – Mudhal Mariyathai
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udhaysankar
June 21, 2016
Thanks for such a detailed and passionately written article. It feels so good to imagine those days without Internet, Ipods, iTunes, torrents, StarMusiQ.com, when the only source of music for the masses would have been the radio. I can if not experience it firsthand, contemplate how gigantic ilayaraja was in those days, when you didn’t have millions of self-anointed reviewers helping you bail out even after having made mediocre music. Music appreciation those days was extremely personal. You liked a song, you listened to it, you praised it (you praised it’s visceral aesthetics if you were a noob, or its musical depth if you were an expert.), you’re done.
Nowadays you listen to a song, it doesn’t work, you listen to it again. You notice your friend’s status on how good that song is. You try listening to it again. It doesn’t work. You don’t care. you fall into this irresistible tide of branding them as classic, theri, blah blah.
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Srinivas R
June 21, 2016
“you fall into this irresistible tide of branding them as classic, theri, blah blah.”
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blurb
July 2, 2016
Interesting interview:
He speaks about Raja quite a bit.
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blurb
July 21, 2016
Hey, so Chinna Kannan Azhaikkiraan is Reethi Gowlai?! Any other Raja compositions in Reethi Gowlai?
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brangan
July 21, 2016
blurb: meettadha oru veenai… thalayai kuniyum… and the most beautiful of them all, the start to raaman kadhai kelungal…
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Aadhi
July 21, 2016
Ah. Speaking about Raja and Reethigowlai, my favourite will always be meettadha oru veenai. The other songs (Chinna kannan azhaikiran, thalayai etc..) are beautiful as well, but they kind of follow a more pure template in the classical sense. There is not a lot of experimentation going on the with the ‘non classical/carnatic’ instruments or the melody itself.
Whereas in meetadha, the bass guitar powers the song with reethigowlai’s familiar ‘sa-ga-ri-ga’ throughout, while the melody hovers around ‘ni-sa’ in the lower octave and ‘ma-ni-dha’ in the higher octaves, thereby establishing reethigowlai through a mix of vocals, bass and electric guitars. When the drums start rolling in a complex 4-6 beat fashion, it’s as if it wants to scream ‘hey please don’t leave me out on all the fun’. This is one of those rare songs which lends itself to discovery even on n(power(n))th listen.
That is not to say the others have not done this. To their credit, Rahman and yuvan have also used Reethigowlai in a non-classical ‘light/cine’ music sense. Azhagaana rakshasiye is a song which gives a picture of the composer having fun while toying with the raaga in an unconventional way, even though the ghatam brings a bit of classical sound into the song.
Yuvan’s theenda theenda is also a refreshing usage of reethigowlai which tries to distance itself from the traditional way melodies are constructed around this raga. Especially the way he plays with the raga in the first interlude with that electric Keytar is something quite ingenious actually.
A lot of people love Raja for different reasons. My adoration for him stems out of his usage of bass guitar in the most unconventional ways possible. Be it those power chords in poongatru or the funky riffs in hey unnaithane, vaa vaa pakkam va , megham kottatum or the classical swaras in meetadha , or even an Indian classical-blues mix in Idhu oru nila kaalam. He has used the instrument like no other in the tamil mainstream film music scene, atleast when it comes to versatile styles. And this is when the likes of Keith peters and other prominent bassists weren’t around, atleast in the popular scene.
I envy those who grew up in 70s and 80s. Growing up in the 90s and being a twenty something now, it doesn’t take much to guess what kind of music I grew up listening to and where my musical sensibilities lie. Well, make no mistake, it still continues to lie there, and there is no comparison. But doing this time travel to discover such gems is a hard exercise, made easier only during discussions on blogs like these. The excitement here is so affecting, that it makes me imagine the musical world my mom, dad and their friends would have inhabited.
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Amit Joki
April 28, 2017
BR I must say I couldn’t make heads or tails of your detailed analysis of Ilayaraja. I was always piqued by the amount of fanfare and nods he gets. The bit where his song is played in a pub in Iraivi. Dhanush was also very vocal with his appreciation of Raja, so I decided to check his songs out, and my! I have 300 MB of his songs downloaded till now and hope it gets to a GB or more.
Ilayaraja’s certainly a magician. His voice sounds like what you’d get when Morgan Freeman is a rustic Indian born singer. Which is to say, his is the voice of God! I wasn’t particularly attracted by SPB’s voice, he is too perfect for me.
I have downloaded around 50 songs and each of them have been a great subject for dissection and critique for music lovers. But I particularly found the following songs suiting my tastes particularly well.
They are as follows:
Aathaadi Paavadai
Naan Thedum Sevvandhi
Thenpandi Cheemayile
Thulli Ezhunthathu
Unna Nenechen Paatu Padichen
Thendral Vandhu Theendumbothu
Raja Raja Cholan Naan
Sangeetha Megam
Raja Kayyavecha
Pudhu Maapillai Ku
Poove Poochooda Vaa
Poojaiketha Poovidhu
Oru Jeevan Alaithathu
O Butterfly
Maanguyile Poonguyile
Koo Koo Endru Kuyil Koovathu
Kanne Kalaimaane
Kanne Navamaniye
Kaatu Vazhi Pogum
Kalyaana Thaennila
Ennama Kannu
Enna Satham Indha Neram
Andha Nilavadhan
En Iniya Pon Nilaave
Kanmani Anbodu Kaadhalan
Kodiyile Malligapoo
Poove Sem Poove
Kanmani Anbodu Kaadhalan
The above are the songs I liked right from the word go. I wasn’t very much taken aback by these songs
ABC Nee Vasi
Raasave Una Nambi (great song but don’t feel like putting it on the loop)
Chinna Kuyil Paadum Paatu (tune is great but again don’t know why it doesn’t make the favourite list)
Adi Aathadi
Adi Rakkama Kayya Thattu (please don’t curse me!)
Appavukku
Edutthu Naan Vidava
Aagaiya Gangai
Nee Oru Kaadhal Sangeetham
Raathiri Poothirukum
Now please can anyone suggest how I am aligned musically? What my tastes are? Also please please help me by suggesting songs which you think will make it to my favourite list. I have given a fair sample size to derive conclusions of my taste I guess. Please enlighten me!
The thing is I just don’t know to find the needle in the haystack with more than 1000 films that the God has composed. I would really be grateful if you could suggest me songs which I could download.
Also, I would unconditionally be on Raja’s side on the battle of Raja vs. ARR
Raja raja than. Neranga mudiyadhu
Also for Isaignani’s fans, I would love to suggest an app which has high quality audios of almost every song of his – this is where I downloaded all the above songs.
You can get it on Android here – http://bit.ly/2dyrw3W
P.S Ivlo perusa type pannirken yaarachu reply pannunga illana periya bulba irukum.
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praneshp
April 29, 2017
@Joki: Sorgame Endralum, Idhazhil Kathai Ezhudhum, “Madai Thiranthu”, “Ithu Oru Pon Malai”, “Poongathavae”, “Endhan Nenjil”, “Kalyanamalai”, “Keladi kanmani” are all candidates for loop.
Any idea why? I love both, my favorite composer keeps oscillating between the two, but probably slightly more in favor of Raja.
Also, if you have rabid Ilaiyaraja fan friends, try to get rid of them, at least from your music life. I found that that helped me a lot in appreciating his music, because I felt I needed to hear a mixed set of songs to appreciate his strengths.
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Madan
April 29, 2017
@ Amit Joki : Rather than songs (which will indeed be like looking for a needle in a haystack) I would suggest you zero in on his great soundtracks.
Which means basically all the films with Mani Ratnam from Idhaya Kovil to Dhalapathi.
With KB, I’d recommend Sindhu Bhairavi, Manadhil Urudhi Vendum, Punnagai Mannan, Unnal Mudiyum Thambi. Pudhu Pudhu Arthangal is also great though only a KB production and not directed by him.
Bharathiraja – too many films, but I will zero in on three, namely, Nizhalgal, Alaigal Oyvathile, Tic Tic Tic, Mudhal Mariyadhai, Kadalora Kavithaigal.
Balu Mahendra – Moonram Pirai, Rettai Vaal Kuruvi, Marupadiyum, Sathy Leelavathy. Again, there are many more, but I suggest you start with these.
Kamal starrers (other than above) – Aboorva Sagotharargal, MMKR, Vikram, Thoongathey Thambi Thoongathey, Kadhal Parisu, Soorasamharam. Again, way too many to list comprehensively.
Mohan starrers – Payanangal Mudivathile, Mella Thirandhadhu Kadhavu, Udhaya Geetham, Thendrale Ennai Thodu
Karthik starrers – Ninaivellam Nithya (start with this album before any of the others I mentioned, seriously), Kizhakku Vaasal, Varusham 16, Paandi Naatu Thangam, Periya Veetu Pannaikaaran
Prabhu – Kozhi Koovudhu, Chinna Thambi, Arangetra Velai (another classic!), Raja Kaiya Vachcha, Senthamizh Paatu, Chinnavar.
Rajnikanth – Pudhu Kavithai, Netri Kann, Nallavanakku Nallavan, Dharmathin Thalaivan, Ejamaan
Ramaraj – Karagatakaaran, Enga Ooru Paatukaaran, Pongi Varum Kaveri
Bhagyaraj – Mundanai Mudichu, Chinna Veedu, Thooral Ninnu Pochu
Vijaykanth – Amman Koil Kizhakaale, Chinna Gounder
As you can see, this is already a lot of music to digest. Out of these, my top five albums would be Ninaivellam Nithya, Mouna Raagam, Punnagai Mannan, Nizhalgal and Agni Natchatram/Mudhal Mariyadhai. Somebody else’s list would be different and it’s not possible to have any semblance of unanimity when this man has composed music enough for a few lifetimes. I am intentionally listing only the ones from the ‘vintage’ canon (maybe Sathy Leelavathy is slightly outside it). Not that there aren’t great scores on either side of it (you will see no 70s soundtracks either in the list) but in the initial stage, it will be easier for you to sort out your preferences if you focus more on his 80s work, which by itself is exhausting to get through.
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Madan
April 29, 2017
“Also, if you have rabid Ilaiyaraja fan friends, try to get rid of them, at least from your music life.” – Let me amend that. Keep rabid fans of any artist at arm’s length. Now of course if there is some artist of whom one is a rabid fan, one may be inclined to argue that fans of said artist are sensible unlike the rest but to my mind they are all the same at the end of the day. Rabid Pink Floyd will stuff their Momentary Lapse of Reason love down your throat, even trying to pretend you don’t really appreciate PF if you can’t see how special that album is. Whatever. There is a lot of music to listen to, lots of movies to watch and plenty of books to read. Other arts too like painting which I don’t really understand, so the short point is tribal behaviour in arts is a waste of time.
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Amit Joki
April 29, 2017
Praneshp: Any idea why?
I myself am a singer who oscillates between “above-average” to “good”, singing wise. I went to carnatic singing classes for two years.
So, that is my preface for my perspective. I don’t “hate” A.R.Rahman’s songs at all. It’s just that given a choice to listen to IR and ARR, I would almost always go with the former than with the latter. Why?
I am in an age where Rahman is still active, winning Oscar and all, but not once have I found that “eureka” moment. But I just started listening to Raja’s songs 2 days ago and that too with an attitude of “apdi enna perusa pantaaru?” and I was jolted by his songs almost instantly.
But the larger reason is that I find Rahman’s songs are too perfectly engineered, sung with singers with impeccable voices. In other words, I cannot sing Rahman’s song as easily. (I can sing Thalli Pogathey quite easily though) as I can of Ilayaraja’s.
For me and I speak for myself, I have found that my favourite songs are always the ones that I like singing (not just humming but singing simultaneously with headphones on, that’s how I listen to music, like Dhanush does in VIP). Take some ARR albums, of which I am well versed. Raanjhaana, Maryan, 24, OKK and not one song from that can I be able to sing confidently, but I found it so easy to sing all of Ilayaraja’s songs.
If there’s one song I liked both singing and listening to, of ARR is Uyire Uyire from Bombay.
Ilayaraja’s songs USP is simplicity itself, There are ragged edges in the song, deep voices of SPB, Yesudas, Ilayaraja himself which makes it easy for me to sing along.
Whereas I find that my voice cracks at some point when I try to sing along an ARR song. That’s the reason why I prefer Raja to ARR :p
To sum up, Ilayaraja’s songs can be sung without bothering your neighbourhood aunties, or by farmers working in the field sowing seeds and reaping crops, whereas an ARR song can be sung only in shows like Indian Idol, Vijay Super Singer etc…which means you have to have some technical prowess to sing an ARR song and pass away without offending anyone.
I find Ilayaraja to be both listenable and singable while I find ARR only listenable and hence the preference for the former.
Also I find Ilayaraja’s songs to be rustic, smelling of Earth, that I guess is because most of his tunes are derived from contemporary raagas of carnatic music, while I have always thought of ARR’s song as being “engineered”.
Also thanks for those suggestions, keladi kanmani, sorgame endralum I have already downloaded. Will download others too 🙂
Madan & Praneshp: Regarding rabid fans: Yesterday I, with a excitement of a baby which’s just shown bright objects, showed my 50 odd songs of Ilayaraja trying to get his favourites too, but I was met with “21st century la Ilayaraja paatu kekra” 😀 It’s all Aniruth here and I am definitely going to make a lot of heads turn when they would hear me saying Ilayaraja being my favorite composer.
Madan: That’s definitely an elaborate list. Thanks for making it out for me and easing my work. After completing your list, I will probably download the others’ Top 10/15 that people have commented above.
I also found the following loopable, singable, listenable:
Aagaiya Vennilaave (Revathy you beauty!)
Valaiyosai
Amma Endrazhaithaatha
Shenbagame Shenbagame
I guess I am looking for songs which have a catchy pallavi, anu pallavi, with interesting back and forth rhythmic charanams.
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brangan
April 29, 2017
Amit Joki: As you said you started listening to Raja only 2 days ago, allow to me correct you on the misconception that his songs are easy to sing. Yes, some songs — maybe. But by the same token, Chinna chinna aasai is very easy to sing too.
There are many Raja songs that are really hard to sing. A small sample…
So you cannot extrapolate from “these few songs I’ve heard are easy to sing” to “Raja’s songs are easy to sing.”
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Madan
April 29, 2017
Amit Joki: I also sort of sing, but more of Engli-peed and Hindi, and I never took singing lessons beyond the sa-ni-da-pa they taught in school. I find Arachcha Santhanam a real pain to sing. I can hit all the notes because mostly SPB doesn’t sing over a huge range. But that’s not what I am talking about. Phonetically, the lyrics are so hard to fit into the meter that I can’t approach anywhere near the smoothness SP manages, so it’s deceptive. OK, what I would say is the sound you hear on an IR recording is mostly live sound and if it was performed live, it would not sound very different. Whereas I have seen SP wrestle with the high note in Ennai Kanavilaye Netrodu and I would hazard a guess that Rahman overdubbed his own vocals over SP’s in the recording. Not that that note is necessarily all that high either but it led me (at that time, this was a late 90s concert) to wonder to what extent ARR’s compositions can be reproduced live. The flipside is many of ARR’s songs may not require a huge instrumental set up to perform, just the best synths in the business. But with IR, a full orchestra is a must and then you will need lots of mics to capture their sound.
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Honest Raj (formerly 'V'enkatesh)
April 29, 2017
Not an expert in music, but I’m sure SPB must have had a plenty of “hard to sing” numbers for IR. “Kaaturen Kaaturen” (from Honest Raj) is one helluva number which SPB sang with utmost ease. “Ellorum Sollum Paatu” from Marupadiyum is another great song that I can think of at the moment.
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Amit Joki
April 29, 2017
BR: My intentions were not to condescend by saying “easy to sing”.
I didn’t mean “every IR song”. I only said that what I found are my favourite songs, happen to be the ones I am able to sing quite well, but revisiting my comment now, I feel I generalised it after a point, my bad.
In IR’s songs, I at least get the base of the song correctly. I can relate the base of my voice to that of Yesudas, SPB, Ilayaraja, Malyasia Vasudevan. Like when I try to sing along wearing a headphone I don’t feel alienated, I get along, if only initially.
I haven’t yet come across an IR song where I can’t even get started like I can’t get started for Ennodu Nee Irunthaal from “I” (I can, but it sounds comparatively less energetic than Sid Sriram’s voice) but I am sure I will chance upon one soon.
I think it would be okay if I rephrase that within two days, I have more singable favourites of IR than that combined from the composers I have been hearing now for quite a long time.
Madan: Thanks a lot for suggesting Aracha Sandhanam. I have always gotten this sense of deja vu, it is like I am revisiting the songs, whereas I don’t even remotely remember them having played anywhere on TV. Has anyone felt the same?
Honest Raj: I might have unknowingly generalised all IR songs into “easy to sing” category but that wasn’t to be 🙂
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Madan
April 29, 2017
“I haven’t yet come across an IR song where I can’t even get started like I can’t get started for Ennodu Nee Irunthaal from “I” ” – OK, so what you are trying to say is there are more songs in the tenor range in ARR’s repertoire as compared to IR songs most of which, esp from the 80s, are composed for baritone voices but without super low notes (exceptions abound, especially some of KJY’s solos like Raja Raja Cholan/En Iniya Pon).
Re deja vu, maybe I have. Haven’t thought about it but when I went on a huge IR binge (having grown up on his 90s songs along side ARR) in the late 90s/early noughties, yes, the music didn’t feel unfamiliar. Maybe the occasions when my parents played his songs or when I heard them passively on the streets on Chennai during my visits there registered more than I had noticed and got wired into my sub conscious. Maybe it’s just the analog sound which we associate with the past and therefore something ‘old’ rather than new and unfamiliar. When I heard Four Seasons for the first time, it felt familiar…
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Vidhya M
April 29, 2017
Amit – dont be tricked by the apparent simplicity of Raja’s songs. Try singing the entire song and you’d realize there are quite a few places in every song that could stump a singer. Ofcourse to get you hooked, the Maestro would make the pallavi easy(easier?) to sing.
I still remember how a good singer who had the audience in raptures during our college culturals, singing Sangeetha Megam (Udaya Geetam) came crashing when he had to go from Kelaaai pooo maname ooo to Sangeetha megam, where his pitch too went lower (as his popularity?!)
And lets pick some songs for you (judging from your list and trying to get ones that havent got mentioned already):
1. Nethu oruthara orutharu paathom – from Pudhu Paatu
2. Andhi mazhai pozhigirathu – Raja Parvai
3. Santhana Marbile / All the time that I think of you – Nadodi Thendral
4. Oru naal andha oru naal – Devathai
5. Thalaatu maari ponathe / Unai kaanum neram ondru – Unnai naan santhithen
6. Oru kili uruguthu / Oh vennilave – Ananda kummi
7. Nee pournami en nenjile – Oruvar vazhum alayam
8. Poomalaye thol seravaa – Pagal nilavu (idhula Revathy a paaru)
9. Vedam nee iniya nadham nee – Kovil pura
10. Ennai thottu allikonda mannan peyarum ennadi – Unna nenachen paatu padichen
11. Kodai kaala kaatre / Aananda ragam – Panneer pushpangal
12. Kaadhal kavidhaigal padithidum / Devathai poloru penningu – Gopura Vasalile
You may not like the songs listed, but you’ll find atleast one song to like in the soundtrack.
And Madan’s top 5 (I go for Agni and not Mudhal Mariyathai) albums are impeccable, in my opinion too.
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Madan
April 30, 2017
“singing Sangeetha Megam (Udaya Geetam) came crashing when he had to go from Kelaaai pooo maname ooo to Sangeetha megam, where his pitch too went lower” – lol! Although I don’t think getting the pitch is really that confusing in that song, but executing the descend flawlessly is still a challenge. Also the AAA in Vaa Vennila charanam is quite tough, especially the second time around where SP adds more notes. Devadhai Ilam Devi is by far the most slippery, because there’s a tricky key change in the charanam which will fell you if you don’t pay attention to it.
Great list, by the way, props on the Unnai Naan Santhinen mention.
Right now, can’t get enough of Paatu Inge from Poovizhi Vaasalile. It wouldn’t even be top 100 of IR for me but DAT bass! This is a jazzy interpretation of the song by Prasanna:
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brangan
January 25, 2018
And a Padma Vibhushan comes his way…
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Shankar
January 26, 2018
And to celebrate it….
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Shankar
January 26, 2018
Baddy, time is slipping away…do something please!
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Arjun
January 26, 2018
And never was one more richly deserved!
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sravishanker1401gmailcom
January 27, 2018
This tribute to the maestro is as breathless as his lush interludes. Mostly during the Kovaithambi Motherland Pictures Mohan combination era, the interlude seemed to be waiting impatiently to get in fast after the 1st 2nd stanza.
You’ve captured the material for a book in a wonderful essay.
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Vishnu
January 28, 2018
Good afternoon Sir. Excellent narrative &the manner in which elaborated. I too am a devotee to the God of Film music.
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Anantha krishnan
February 2, 2019
It is a clear fact that ir is far far more talented than arr and has produced lot of classics…but his impact in the present generation is less than arr…that kadhalan songs someone mentioned still has lot of impact..a crappy version of urvasi is a hit..and another crappy version of bombay’s humma was a smashing hit..and the original songs are still heard and has impact..ir is more remembered as a once great musician while arr’s average songs still get attention..may be due to the sound,ir is a bit underrated by this generation..the movie references are helpful for new generation in finding his classics but arr’s reach is far far more high
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Madan
February 2, 2019
Anantha Krishnan: The reason Rahman songs from the 90s are still referenced while Raja is regarded as a former great is similar to what happened to MSV once Raja took over completely. So this happens all the time.
But there’s another thing. Rahman disliked the essential film music sound (as described in the controversial Kadambari bio) and changed it to a more international pop sound. As international pop gets dreckier and dreckier, so does Rahman’s music get more and more boring. But that’s a different issue. The point is he made the old film sound redundant and today when people (esp those born in 90s and afterwards) recollect songs, they find Raja etc quaint. This is why lot of people, even older generation, club Raja with older composers in HFM and TFM though I would say the only thing he shares in common with them is that film music structure and a certain melodramatic sensibility that pervaded those films. But I am just about old enough to remember when Raja was still cutting edge. Stripped of production values, I still find the music itself cutting edge and far from quaint or rustic (except when he intends it to be like that boat song in Vaidehi Karthurinthural). If you take the second interlude of Vaa Vaa Kanna Vaa and use modern house or EDM rhythms on it (esp where that slap bass comes in), it could be used even today without being dated by a day. So, to cut a long rant short, I don’t really bother about who wins the war of perceptions. To me, IR’s work is evergreen. Rahman can be but only sometimes and increasingly I feel he tries too hard to be trendy. I just can’t get into songs, that as I said, sound like they could be of any nameless chartbuster in international pop. Even a B grade Rahman album from the 90s/early 00s like Thenali sounds more interesting to me than this recent work. Note I am saying interesting, not soulful or better. It’s not even about what I prefer, I find it hard to just get excited about a lot of what he does now. If Raja was a self declared dinosaur defying trends he disliked even at the cost of losing A list projects more and more, Rahman has been content to play me-too and ride whatever is the latest flavour in town. I prefer the former as at least a Raja album still bears his unmistakable stamp if sometimes less alluring than before.
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Sriram
May 22, 2019
So true and am sure us in sync with many more hearts ..
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Manoharan
May 24, 2019
Article that reflects all of our thoughts, great.
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vijay
May 25, 2019
Just noticed this..
“Which again adds to my earlier point that the very fact that people with such grudges kept going back to him is proof of his genius. ”
BR, no, its more like proof of his marketability at that point. A lot of them ditched him the first chance they got with a viable alternative. That’s how the film industry functions. I am surprised you even hold this naive viewpoint after covering the industry for so many years.
I don’t expect our directors, most of them knuckleheads, to really go to a MD because of their understanding of the musical genius the MD is. Its all dhuddu at the end of the day.
The fans actually have a better understanding of IR’s music than these directors, most of whom took IR (or the other great MDs) for granted when those MDs were ruling the scene and were at the peak of their creative powers.
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Madan
May 26, 2019
“I don’t expect our directors, most of them knuckleheads, to really go to a MD because of their understanding of the musical genius the MD is. Its all dhuddu at the end of the day.”
There is truth to what you say, however the matter is a little more complicated if we closely analyse the 90s.
KB and Bharatiraja fell out with IR. It really didn’t have to do with commercial success. Mani too switched partly due to Roja being a KB production and partly because he started to want out.
A new set of directors never really approached him (like Shankar) nor particularly keen on being in his clique (Kathir). These ones happened to set the trends of the 90s and IR missed the bus, commercially.
Another set of directors and actors actually remained steadfastly loyal to him. Vasu, Udhayakumar, Selvamani, Balu Mahendra, Raj kiran, even Kamal intermittently. To date, Kamal has only done two films with Rahman – Indian and Thenali – and the comedies he did with Deva or Vidyasagar were expendable musically speaking so not a big loss to IR. Prashanth, Vijay and Surya had a bunch of films with IR’s music, mainly because Fazil and other Malayalam directors preferred IR. Karthik and Prabhu both had films with IR music into the mid 90s. Vijaykanth had Dharma and also Ramana years later. Parthiban had Kakkai Sirahinile in 2000. The problem for him was the dwindling success of all these collaborators marginalising him from the mainstream steadily. Even when the films ran well like Friends/Kannukul Nilavu/Kadhalukku Mariyadhai, the music failed to evoke raptures the way IR’s music used to.
If some IR bhaktas are still frequenting this forum, they will give me hell for this comment but I have seen Friends, Kadhalukku Mariyadhai and Singaravelan all three in Udhayam and there is simply no comparison. The audience barely noticed Friends songs coming and going; at least Yennai Thalatta made some impression. This doesn’t even mean the songs in those Vijay movies were bad (though nowhere near Singaravelan level); they were just not striking in terms of where pop culture was at at the time.
Lastly came a smaller set of directors/actors who actually jumped ship at the first opp, particularly the Suresh Krishna-Rajnikanth team. Rajni going away was a big loss indeed. But without the other three factors, Rajni leaving by itself wouldn’t have made such a big impact on IR’s fortunes.
So the theory that his collaborators jumped ship at the first opportunity, while widely believed, is only partly correct. It was a new wave in Tamil cinema – whether IR bhaktas like it or not – and IR was then seen as part of the old. He could only make a partial comeback when a second new wave happened in the early noughties with a rural revival, creating an opening for him again which he utilised for about half a decade. After that, there’s been nothing and even when he has delivered good music, it’s largely fallen on deaf ears because, again, pop culture wise his time is past. Some of the best concerts I have been to are either jazz or classical and nobody can accuse these genres of being with it in terms of pop culture. By nature, they attract a small audience deeply interested in music for the sake of music itself.
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vijay
May 28, 2019
Madan,I was disputing the notion that directors kept going back to him while bearing insults only because of their appreciation of IR’s musical genius. Not true. They didn’t have a choice at that point. Maybe hardcore fans like Parthiban were an exception. Even when BR tried out briefly with Hamsalekha in the 80s, he eventually came back to IR as IR’s hold was unshakeable. First of all the directors who got those kind of archanais from IR were second-tier directors mostly. I don’t think a KB gets treated that way. These directors started jumping ship after KB/Mani showed what could be done with Rahman and Deva. In fact KS Ravikumar who perfectly symbolizes tamil cinema’s commercial mediocrity had this snappy comeback when a reporter asked him as to why he did not pick IR for Avvai shanmughi(or was it Tenali?) as IR was kamal’s favourite – “Kamalukku pudichirukkalaam, aana makkalukku pudichirukkanume..”.. This was the attitude. Of course IR was tough to deal with too, I am not disputing that. He didn’t exactly have a collaborative approach with most lyricists/singers, more a drill sergeant/soldier type of relationship. Think of that drumming instructor in Whiplash, but less sadistic 🙂
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S Kumar
August 4, 2019
BR, what do you think of this performance? Isn’t better than the original ?
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brangan
August 4, 2019
S Kumar: Ah, one of the Great Songs of the Great Man’s Greatest Period (the late 70s to the mid 80s).
Thanks for this.
I love the softness of the violins here, and the male singer sounds surprisingly like Dheepan Chakravarthy. But the female singer does not work for me. The USP of this song throughout is how Raja uses the gamakam/melisma in each line, and she isn’t doing it very well.
This — BTW — is not one of the songs I’ve ever had a “recording problem” with.
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Madan
August 4, 2019
“This — BTW — is not one of the songs I’ve ever had a “recording problem” with.” – Surprised you would say that because this is from the mono phase with scratchy sounds and all. Doesn’t sound anything like the clean, stereo recordings of the mid 80s onwards (say from 84-85).
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Jayram
November 20, 2019
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Madan
December 30, 2020
I am sure older IR fans have heard this song many times but I only recently heard this song PROPERLY.
Vaguely remember listening to it before but the other day, I really listened attentively and fell in love with this Kalyani beauty. Second interlude has something that sounds like a shehnai playing Western notes over busy keyboard chords and congos. Almost like reverse fusion – introduce an Indian instrument in a Western moment and then make that Indian instrument conform to the moment.
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Madan
December 31, 2020
…and this is a beautiful, beautiful Hindolam. Not a pure Hindolam, he adds a small Ni but that small Ni is what coaxes out a different flavour.
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vijay
February 18, 2024
Recent sudden passing away of Bhava left a lot of folks in grief. Recovery is’nt going to be easy.
Although I was’nt admittedly a big fan of her body of work, the mind does flashback to certain songs when you think of her, esp. from that late 90s phase when her dad used her voice in certain soft songs that were orchestrally well backed. Here is one which appeared in my playlist today
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hari prasad
March 20, 2024
Thoughts on this?
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Rahini David
March 21, 2024
I am very excited and wonder who would be good as SPB.
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Jayram
March 21, 2024
I vote Madan as SPB.
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Srinivas R
March 21, 2024
I am not enthused abt this, Indian cinema doesn’t know to make biopics. Wud have preffered a documentary.
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Madan
March 21, 2024
“I am not enthused abt this, Indian cinema doesn’t know to make biopics. Wud have preffered a documentary.” – Wurd. And that too, with Dhanush involved in an IR biopic, there is next to no chance of this being anything other than a hagiography. I wouldn’t even mind the hagiography part IF it did have insight about his way of working. To do justice to that, a web series would have worked better. I want to see something interesting from behind the scenes, how does he teach songs to singers, how his score gets distributed to musicians and how he then coaches them, how he writes BGM, whether he ever expressed reactions to certain films in terms of how they used his music. There won’t be space for all that in a film and they may end up doing an ‘inspirational arc’ with very little substance a la Soorarai Pootru. Let’s see, of course I will watch whatever is the final product of this but Indian cinema and biopics don’t mix.
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Madan
March 21, 2024
“I vote Madan as SPB.” – Madan as in Madhan Bob?
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vijay
May 7, 2024
..and? 🙂
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vijay
May 8, 2024
quite a few folks keep asking for playlists and such here and elsewhere..there are so many ways to sequence IR songs in a playlist, like year-wise, mood-wise, genre-wise, singer-wise and so on..here is totally another way, an impromptu list of songs created out of just a free flowing jamming session, and a high-calibre one at that.In the cmments somebody has taken the trouble to list all the 40-odd songs these two traversed through
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brangan
May 8, 2024
vijay: Is this really that great a list? All pretty standard, familiar Raja hits no? (Not disputing the quality of the songs. Just the list itself!)
Speaking of Raja songs, I had a very interesting chat with a musician recently. He said that there are two types of Raja song lovers (to add to your “so many ways to sequence IR songs” point): (1) those who grew up with pop/rock and therefore gravitate towards the songs with that kind of structure, focusing on chords, bass lines, etc. (2) those who grew up with Indian music, for whom melody lines come first.
Of course, theories like this one are “unproveable” 🙂 And it’s impossible to put up an iron wall between these two categories. But we had a great time thinking up songs we liked and putting them in Bucket 1 and Bucket 2.
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vijay
May 8, 2024
BR, of course they are very popular/familiar, and thats how musicians sometimes operate . But somebody new to IR can’t do much worse than start off from a list like this….My point was more about how a free playlist was incidentally created here, not by design, but in an impromptu and random manner..and needless to say very well played too. My own playlists wont look like this though, I am more genre-based and mood-based. I dont like mixing up a sindhubhairavi classical song with say a song from Punnagai mannan next in the list 🙂
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vijay
May 8, 2024
meant “somebody new to IR can do much worse”…
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Madan
May 8, 2024
“He said that there are two types of Raja song lovers (to add to your “so many ways to sequence IR songs” point): (1) those who grew up with pop/rock and therefore gravitate towards the songs with that kind of structure, focusing on chords, bass lines, etc. (2) those who grew up with Indian music, for whom melody lines come first.” - I am of the third kind. I grew up mainly on Indian music up to college days and it was actually Raja’s music that got me interested in Western music (because he was writing parts in such a different way compared to his predecessors and to some extent even the ones who came after, esp basslines). And then, after I got into Western, I looked at Raja’s music with greater interest in the arrangements (rather than only ‘interludes’).
I will say it becomes difficult to go back to the old, melody oriented way once you have learned to like Western music. This doesn’t have to do with Western supposedly being more sophisticated (and I def don’t think rock/pop is more sophisticated than, say, ghazals) but its greater capacity to be subversive. And subversion is what binds Raja and Western music together (also Rahman and to a lesser extent RD Burman). RD introduced that ‘kheeda’ but his repertoire in Western was more limited than these two. Also, once you start to pay attention to Western, you notice the good things the older composers did from a Western perspective more as well. Like the very loose, very lovely saxophone solo in the second interlude of Yeh Hai Reshmi Zulfon Ka by OPN.
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vijay
May 23, 2024
Enjoying this after a loong time, had almost forgotten this..while sevvandhi pookalil from the same film got more airtime this was forgotten..but what a song..everybody involved IR, Vairamuthu(“NaaLaigaLai naan nambinen,
Nandhanaar pol naan vembinen”), the musicians in vintage form..the bass lines, a brief whistle used as counter in the second interlude, but, but the way the stanzas finish….gives me an orgasmic high. I am sure Bharathi-Vasu too did’nt quite know what to do with this song like they were clueless about aanandha raagam in Panneer pushpangaL. But the composition takes care of all these mild annoyances, including the barebones recording quality and the weaker male voice.
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Madan
May 26, 2024
Wrote about Aaradhanai here. Nowhere near as popular as Aradhana but make no mistake, this is another brilliant early 80s album stuck in a forgotten film:
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