What we have in Kollywood is the complete ascendance of the hero, at the cost of every other stakeholder, from the distributors to even the producer.
Spoilers ahead…
In 2013, a little before the release of Dhoom 3, I interviewed Aamir Khan for The Hindu. I said that this seemed to be a project that was more about getting the numbers, and he replied: “No film is a preordained hit. But yes, the chances of success in this case are high. And like any project, I chose this one because I loved the script. I listened to the narration and I was excited by it. And then we go back and work out the economics – how much we can spend, and so on, so that we can ensure profits for everyone down the chain, the exhibitors, the distributors, everyone. My interest in numbers is limited to the fact that I want my films to make back the money invested in them.”
Read the rest of this article on Film Companion, here: https://www.filmcompanion.in/tamil-movies-thalapathy-vijay-master-80-crore-salary-lokesh-kanagaraj-aamir-khan-rajinikanth-ajith-akshay-kumar
Continued at the link above.
Copyright ©2020 Film Companion.
Baradwaj Rangan 
Madan
March 18, 2020
“One respondent said it’s because the stars here are like gods, and there’s an inbuilt craze for their films, unlike, say, an Akshay Kumar — for him, if the buzz isn’t good, the film may have a “soft” opening. But here, with the top three stars (Vijay, Ajith and Rajinikanth), an earth-shattering opening day is guaranteed. ” – I think it’s this plus the relatively low number of bankable stars. Take a mid 80s timeframe and compare how many bankable stars you had then. Rajni, Kamal, Mohan, Vijaykanth, Karthik plus a second tier consisting of Bhagyaraj, Pandiarajan, Pandian, Suresh. I am not counting Satyaraj who would also become a star in his own right by the late 80s. This scenario continued in the 90s and up to the mid noughties at which point it started to hollow out. There is now a cult for the three you mentioned which puts them in a separate category of bankability from the rest. They are sort of in a fail safe category which Surya, Jeeva or Jayam don’t belong to. As long as the cult is totally personality oriented and not remotely connected to the quality of the film itself, this situation cannot be remedied, I am afraid. You mentioned Telugu cinema and I wonder if (a) there is a similar difference in bankability and (b) the top stars are as fail safe as Vijay, Ajith and Rajni.
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N Madhusudhan
March 18, 2020
Had the same questions as Madan does w.r.t. Telegu cinema. I don’t think any of their stars are as fail proof as a Vijay or Ajith. A Mahesh Babu / Pawan Kalyan / Allu Arjun film that doesn’t meet the public’s expectations still bombs at the box office. Whereas in Tamil Cinema, even a horrendous film like Bairavaa can survive purely because of Vijay’s star power. I hate to admit it, but i don’t think even Rajinikanth is currently as fool proof as Vijay is.
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MANK
March 18, 2020
Superb piece boss, there was a time when i was obsessed with the economics of movies in all the major languages, but nowadays not so much. i have a feeling that a lot of low level distributors are getting killed on these big star films. i want to know how many of these 200 and 300 crore grosser are actually profitable
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Honest Raj
March 18, 2020
Till about the 1990s, when reputed and respected production houses like AVM were still making films, the hero was allotted some 25-30 per cent of the film’s budget. Now, it appears to be 75 per cent.
Even Thalaivar, in his heydays, was paid only that much (25-30 pc). Apparently, he took 60 lacs (1/5th of the budget) for Thalapathy which was South India’s most expensive film upto that point.
https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/society-the-arts/films/story/19911115-mani-rantams-multicrore-film-promises-electrifying-experience-with-southern-superstar-cast-815094-1991-11-15
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Honest Raj
March 18, 2020
While Thalaivar is still the highest paid actor in the South, both Vijay and Ajith seem to be at the peak of their careers for a while now. Ajith’s MV is well lower than Vijay’s but his smaller budget films are generating higher profits. Of the three, Vijay is easily the most commanding as he seems to have a perfect tradeoff between paycheck and overall profitability.
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Anu Warrier
March 18, 2020
As far as Aamir is concerned, he hasn’t been taking any fee at al for the past few yearsl; his fees are a share in the profits. So if his films make money, he gets lucky. In any case, most of his money is ploughed right back into the industry. I think it’s because he comes from a family of producers and he understands the economics of film-making. Also, his stance of wanting the wealth to trickle down means that his core team – distributors, exhibitors, etc. – has stayed with him for the past 20 years or so, ever since Lagaan. I don’t know how many heroes do that, but yes, the economics are a lot more streamlined in the Hindi industry.
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shaviswa
March 18, 2020
The producers have a choice. They do not have to agree to pay the fee to the star upfront and just walk away. This will force these stars, including Vijay, to then produce their own movies. They will then very obviously only get their money at the backend.
Force the stars to fall in line instead of cribbing.
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AdhithyaKR
March 18, 2020
Great analysis @brangan. Considering how frequently you bring up the issue of disproportionate salaries and skewed economics, an article like this was long due. I can’t help wondering though, does this hurt your chances of interviewing certain people down the line, or will you face other repercussions? Have there been occasions like this in the past?
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Varsha Ganesh
March 18, 2020
For someone who didn’t have any idea about the economics of filmmaking, this was very interesting. I’d be curious to learn about the economics of smaller (good) movies too and if the profit margin of those movies is higher than the profit margin of these big star vehicles. Considering the audience today is more receptive to these, I`d think producers would be interested in taking those on but I guess the risk is higher too.
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H. Prasanna
March 19, 2020
How all this dictates the content of films is a rabbit hole worth visiting.
There is great value in creating heroes out of actors who have good first movies. Much success of the good first films are attributed to the hero, who was just a protagonist/central character or even a supporting character in the good first movie.
Then, in the next movie he has to be a hero and upsell his image. Whatever he did in the first movie that worked should be made to look cool and that should be the central character if it wasn’t. This essentially curtails the content of all second films of heroes booked post first film hit. And every hero has to play a great cop/dada/lover at least once in a career.
So, every story has to be that hero’s journey, the original/last character that sold whether they are second time hero or big hero. Walking in to Master we know the hero will be vindicated, his decisions will be rationalised, and it will be done elaborately to make him look cool. The only question is how. We need no context/world building and character transformation to know who to root for. The only question is for what. All these elements are not there to serve the script; they are only there to serve the hero’s cool image. So, in Master, we know everything about the content because of some economics. Wow, this is so difficult to do film after film for the technicians/writers: the same thing differently but well, even better.
I would suggest that the heroes, even if they don’t produce their own scripts, give a portion of their money to experimental/first time filmmakers to make competitive movies. Or set up film schools. Because every big director/writer/tech who learned cinema literally bend that cinema to make these guys look cool.
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Balu
March 19, 2020
It will be interesting to know which group pushed for this in Bollywood – was it the heroes or producers? It is hard to believe that Bollywood heroes are more benevolent than the Tamil heroes and care more about distributors/theater operators etc.
I suspect that the top heroes in Bollywood mostly act in self-produced movies or in movies produced by close friends/connections (Karan Johar, Yash Chopra etc.) and hence the model of profit sharing kind of makes sense to them. Other than Kamal, none of the top Tamil heroes produce movies regularly.
This problem can be easier to address if box office numbers were genuine. It doesn’t matter if Vijay charges 80 crores or Vishal charges 10 crores, market would automatically adjust their salaries if everyone knew how their movies performed. I don’t see the need to regulate hero’s salaries at all – how many years/movies can they sustain if they keep charging higher than their box office value?
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Ravi K
March 19, 2020
N. Madhusudhan wrote: “Had the same questions as Madan does w.r.t. Telegu cinema. I don’t think any of their stars are as fail proof as a Vijay or Ajith. A Mahesh Babu / Pawan Kalyan / Allu Arjun film that doesn’t meet the public’s expectations still bombs at the box office. ”
Do those the Telugu stars’ underperforming films still garner large opening box office? Also, what is the film financing situation in other South Indian industries? Do producers there also borrow at exorbitant interest rates? Are there financiers like Anbuchezian in those industries?
Baradwaj, does the info in the following link track with what you heard in your interviews?
https://www.livemint.com/Consumer/OfRntX2xByWqueIhbOYGCP/Why-Tamil-cinema-still-battles-financing-woes.html
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brangan
March 19, 2020
Balu: All the people I spoke to held up Bollywood as an example NOT because the stars there are benevolent gods. Aamir, SRK, Salman, Akshay are still the biggest beneficiaries of their hits — but at least, the financial dealings at least don’t result in HUGE losses down the line.
Here, it is crippling exhibitors and distributors.
So I guess it’s a relative thing. The guys here are saying, “So okay, let’s be like Bollywood and make marginal amounts of profits. Just don’t bury us in massive debts.”
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Nathan
March 19, 2020
BR, did political aspirations come up in your conversations at all as to why stars need large sums of risk free money upfront?
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kaizokukeshav
March 19, 2020
So why are producers making these movies in first case ? It’s solely a gamble they are ready to take and these heros are just thriving on it. We also don’t see milk ‘abhishekams’, ‘largest cutouts’ and ‘largest cakes’ for actors in North India. Neither the culture nor the payment system will change IMO
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Alex John
March 19, 2020
That this has become a norm in Tamil cinema is something I don’t understand. I mean, the distributors suffering once or twice is understandable, but it has lately been a trend in Tamil cinema that they beg to get compensated for the losses incurred mostly by the over-payment to the stars. I mean the ‘movie-star’ is still huge in India, but wasn’t the father of them all, Amitabh Bachchan, forced to shed the burden of overblown stardom and cut down his salary? Aren’t we living in a free society? It has been proved that the stars, no matter how big they are, can be put a leash on. A film star demanding a salary which is proportionate to the crowds he pulls to the movies is one thing, but if his demands grow up to a level that cripples the distributors, they need to rise up and fight back. Any star is no star if the money dries up around him. This should happen naturally in a near-capitalist environment like ours, but Tamil Cinema seems to defy it all, curiously.
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Madan
March 19, 2020
“A film star demanding a salary which is proportionate to the crowds he pulls to the movies is one thing, but if his demands grow up to a level that cripples the distributors, they need to rise up and fight back.” – They can only fight back when the audience supports them. As long as the audience rushes to watch a film just because it stars XYZ without waiting for word of mouth confirmation as to whether it’s a worthwhile watch, there is nothing distributors can do. You mention Amitabh and he had a series of flops starting with Agneepath, which was actually a pretty decent film compared to some of the Ajith/Vijay/Rajni masterpieces of recent vintage (I dare say it had more substance than Baazigar while lacking its freshness/novelty value). He had completely lost market by the time KBC resurrected his career. That is a market process actually at work. The same process by which SRK took a few knocks during the early years of Hrithik and as Aamir made an early adjustment to the multiplex model. Nobody is indispensable in Bollywood because they are only seen as stars for their glamour. But a Rajni film is treated like Utsavar poojai which ensures a minimum audience presence (the fail safe aspect mentioned earlier).
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Madan
March 19, 2020
A good parallel to Rajni/Vijay/Ajith cult would be that of nostalgia rock. Why on earth would people pay top dollar to watch has-been acts well past their prime when they could watch new, exciting bands for a fraction of the ticket price? Well, similar to Rajni cult. Strong emotional attachment and also a sense of security in what the artist will deliver.
Here are the top earning artists of 2019. While there are some top pop artists in the list, what is striking is the preponderance of old rock acts in the list.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2019/12/06/the-worlds-top-earning-musicians-of-2019/#2d0cf576164e
Eagles (!) is no.4, Elton John at no.5, Metallica rounds out the top 10. Billy Joel makes it to the top 20. Fleetwood Mac, McCartney, Guns N Roses and Rolling Stones in the top 30. So 7 of the top 30 earning artists in the world are ages old rock acts, be they solo artists like Elton John or bands.
Not one new or even recent rock act in the top 30 as far as I could tell. And then they will complain about how rock is dead. Well folks, you made/make it so.
Similar is the case with the Rajni/Vijay/Ajith syndrome.
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Alex John
March 19, 2020
@Madan, “But a Rajni film is treated like Utsavar poojai which ensures a minimum audience presence”
This is what I intended to talk about. See, I think Rajni is now going through a phase Amitabh went through in the 90s. I hear Amitabh’s salary in the 90s were so high that even the films those ran 75-100 days in theaters ended up either being average grossers or flops-disasters(Bade miyan Chote miya, Sooryavansham, Mrityudada are some of those films).The same thing happens with Rajni films now.That means the minimum audience presence these stars bring in just isn’t enough to ensure their films’ success, which makes the distributors lament that these celebrated movies were actually money-losers for them. I am not against movie stars demanding high salaries, but they just have to make sure that the money they get is earned, not gifted to them because they are stars. If they don’t, then the market usually makes them, but it surprisingly doesn’t happen in Tamil film industry(or is just delayed). Is star worship so deep rooted that it defies every market-logic? I am quite baffled by these affairs nowadays.
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sachita
March 19, 2020
One other indication is rarely do we same producer producing these top actors film second time except sun pictures( but for obvious reasons they are not a valid datapoint). Either vijay/rajni – like you are not going to see lyca/mersal/bigil producer again.
I am guessing the only person who would be helped by a star not taking salary upfront is the producer? They borrow much higher.
Distributors or theatre owners come much later in the picture. They will suffer losses when the money for which they bought for is too high.
Which is why I have the same question as the comment above me – why do theatre owners/distributors buy it at a rate higher than the riskline? like even if a film fetches 300 crores i,e running packed houses for couple of weeks and if they are still not able to break even, then why buy it at that price?
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therag
March 20, 2020
@Madan, the market is taking care of it. Vijay, Ajith, Rajni are not as invincible as they seem. Rajni had Kochadaiyan and Lingaa flop back to back (even Kaala didn’t do very well). IIRC Bairavaa and Puli were big flops, don’t let all the hype and hoopla distract you. Ajith had Vivegam bomb not too long ago. Until Box Office figures are transparent and vetted by a trusted third party, Vijay can claim he gets paid 800 crores for all I care. Hollywood spends a lot of accountant time in covering up their profits, but you know when a John Carter bombs. While it is not entirely clear how much money a film makes, it is impossible to hide a flop there. I feel the lack of transparency is severely hampering the Indian film industry,
This is not a market issue but a structural issue. The whole producer-distributor-exhibitor scheme in Tamil Cinema is based on “trust”. This sort of worked till the early 00s when the producers and distributors were big names and had a rapport. Now the distributors/exhibitors are apparently all star-struck rookies. As long as there is someone left to catch the falling knife, the producer walks away happy. If the movie actually does well, lucky for the guy.
Is it the audience’s problem? No. The audience only watches what it wants. I do not believe for a second that Vijay will start producing gems if we move to a profit sharing scheme. The audience (sadly) actually likes the crap he serves. There have been countless other star kids who tried to launch themselves and failed miserably. And about a decade back, Vijay had like 6 films flop in a row and he’s still here reducing the collective IQ of the state.
The real solution is, as Hollywood has done, to adopt an IP-based system. Baahubali was an excellent proof of concept. It was the first pan-India film in a looong time and nobody outside of Teluguland knew about Prabhas or Rana Daggubatti, let alone SS Rajamouli. I think we are moving in this direction. The current system is too fragmented for there to be a proper studio system but as audience mindshare in film dwindles, I think there will be some consolidation.
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Madan
March 20, 2020
“I hear Amitabh’s salary in the 90s were so high that even the films those ran 75-100 days in theaters ended up either being average grossers or flops-disasters(Bade miyan Chote miya, Sooryavansham, Mrityudada are some of those films).” –
Let’s look at these films individually.
Sooryavansham has become a Sony TV Sunday afternoon cult classic NOW. But back in the day, it didn’t do well at all. Along the lines of what therag says, it’s very common for industry to cover up a superstar’s troubles with euphemisms like ‘average’ but I was there back then in a three-hall cineplex in suburban Dombivli. Being a suburb, it was a good barometer for how a film would do across India (neither too posh like SoBo markets nor too rustic like the heartland). I had come with parents to watch Badshah which was a housefull show. There was almost no-one who had come for the Sooryavansham show. When the Sooryavansham trailer aired, people laughed. We were all tired of watching AB doing double roles with one of them as the ‘young’ Amitabh when he didn’t look young at all. (Separately, this is an important difference vis-a-vis Tamil; there is a low tolerance of aging superstars trying to act college student young etc). Enough of anecdotes, here are stats from box office India:
https://boxofficeindia.com/years.php?year=1999&pageId=4
Sooryavansham is way down at no.29. You can see even Badshah is classified as only average because I guess the housefull shows like the one I attended didn’t last long enough. A film had to run well for a really long time then to be a hit. The list tallies with my own impressions of which were the biggest hits of that year – HSSH/Biwi No.1/HDDCS/Taal/Sarfarosh.
Along the same lines, Mrityudata too was a flop but fared better than Sooryavansham because it was AB’s comeback film after a hiatus.
https://boxofficeindia.com/years.php?year=1997&pageId=4
Bade Miya was a huge hit but BECAUSE it starred reigning star Govinda in a comedy. It set the tone for the formula that would work for AB (as a supporting actor). Along with another film that could be called a ‘forgot buster’. Both came out in 1998:
https://boxofficeindia.com/years.php?year=1998&pageId=4
The other film is Major Saab. Nobody remembers anything about the film today but it was almost as big a hit as Ghulam (which for me is unthinkable because Ghulam was a cult phenomenon at that time in urban markets). But that film showed AB would be a success acting his age or thereabouts because his ACTING was still highly valued. He would go on to follow this formula in Mohabbatein (for which he reportedly asked Yash Chopra to give him a role, any role as he was bankrupt) as well as K3G.
One important point you would have noticed is none of these films were among the top five grossers of the respective years. Whereas Petta was no.3 in 2019 (no.2 if we take worldwide collections). Kaala and 2.0 were among the top grossers of 2018 too. So I don’t think Rajni is even close to AB’s late 90s phase at this point. Again, an important difference is when Baba flopped, Rajni devotees swore they would never let any of his films flop again. They have largely stayed true to their word, except Kochadaiyan which stretched their devotion to the limit. Nobody said likewise of AB. At that time (late 90s), if you had asked people who their all time favourite actor was, most would have said Amitabh. But that didn’t mean people wanted to be watching only his films forever. That ‘moving on’ phase has not set in for Rajni.
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Madan
March 20, 2020
therag: I agree with you on one point – the lack of producer power. With AVM and Kavitalaya bowing out, it’s a field day for superstars and their in house productions. Or, as you said, they can find lackeys to bear producer name and do their biding. In either case, not a healthy scenario. But if market forces were asserting themselves, distributors would say the rate charged by say Rajni per territory is too much. And in order to accept a lower rate, he would have to accept lower fees too. Now why would distributors do self-mutilation? The reason, I guess, is at least Rajni or Ajith films ensure a big opening. They cannot be sure of that with other actors’ projects and hence play it safe.
I don’t expect Vijay (or the other two) to make better films in a profit sharing model but I expect them to get cut down to size a little in that scenario. That is not happening because the audience itself isn’t necessarily giving the message they want something new. Difference between the two cities, ra? Other than elephanta caves, Mumbai is a pretty new city, built over by the British and the Parsis and except small fishing communities, nobody can truly claim Mumbai is theirs (another matter that Maharashtrians insist Mumbai belongs to them). Chennai has an older heritage with the Triplicane Parthasarathy temple dating to the 8th century. Idols don’t die out so quickly in Chennai. MGR was a major force in the industry right until he became CM. So what’s happening with Rajni is not new. There is good and bad to it. There was no grand 75th birthday celebration for Naushad Ali in Mumbai but there was for Ilayaraja. Unfortunately, some less worthy characters like Vijay and Ajith also end up joining this elite group by sheer dint of mass following.
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vijayrises
March 20, 2020
Great Article.
As a Kamal fan, I am hurt at how his star power has slowly fallen.. with him not even being considered in the Top Tier of the stars who set the box office ablaze.
But, apparently he has realized this way before anyone else did and has since made some interesting career choices to remain in the public eye, Big Boss being one of them.
I like how he has refused to be the forgotten auteur and woken up to the value and the inevitable star power certain moves and movies can bring, like signing the sequel to his biggest hit Indian, a mass vehicle in Vettaiyadu Vilayadu 2 and of course, the role which will never dwindle his star power ever again, the Politician.
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rsylviana
March 20, 2020
I’m curious , is there any Tamil hero who uses this profit sharing structure to get their remuneration ? I don’t mean Vishal , Surya , Karthi and the likes who own production houses and produce some of their own films but actors like VJS, Dhanush , Vikram, Arya , Jayam Ravi and so on.
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Alex John
March 21, 2020
@Madan, I agree with your statistics, but a movie being in top grosser lists is not the point here. Yes, Major saab was a genuine hit, but there were other movies in the 90s which were, despite being box office hits, ended up hurting its producers/distributors because Amitabh’s disproportionately huge remuneration ate into those films’ profits.Those films were up on every imaginable box office lists, but were actually unprofitable and were not so dissimilar in fate to some of recent Rajni releases, if news from various sources are to be believed. On top of that, several industry figures have recently come forward, confessing most of the superstar box office figures are overblown.Numbers might be glittering, but the reality seems to be not.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/regional-movies/darbar-box-office-film-incurs-heavy-losses-distributors-to-go-on-hunger-strike-after-request-to-meet-rajinikanth-is-turned-down/story-wJVtqdojmHluuzNyRKszVO.html
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vijay
March 21, 2020
Vijay had half a dozen flops around Kuruvi/sura time. I always wondered how he had managed to stay on and continue like an annoying megaserial through all those films. Some dad politics at play here?
In a lot of ways Tamil films and audiences have regressed since the 00s. The moviegoing ritual, come Diwali or Pongal, which I thought would fizzle out a bit after the multiplexes came, has only strengthened now. And the stars are cashing in.
BR, did you ask any of those anonymous sources about the peculiar business of releasing 200+ tamil films in a 52-week year and then lamenting that films don’t run for more than 3 days or that small good films don’t get an opening etc.? As Goundamani mentioned in a show recently, we have more people making and acting in films these days than sitting in front of them.
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therag
March 21, 2020
I think pretty much all the funding for big Tamil films is black money, especially politicians and their kids. So they can probably afford to overspend. This whole “Distributors made huge loss and are angry” schtick is so old that some shady business has to be involved. All the political involvement is precisely why they still have a Nadigar Sangam election issue, producer council issue and the whole audio-launch, success-party, paarattu-vizha bull. Every regime change at Fort St. George means new leadership for all the Sangams. The industry is so disorganized and haphazard, I am surprised they even put out films as regularly as they do. Oh, actually they don’t. Pretty much any film can be delayed at the last moment for really stupid reasons and release dates are determined weeks before release.
But I think the industry is declining in importance. People don’t watch as many movies as they used to. 20% of the people probably make up 80% of the audience for films. Vijay and Ajith are very popular among the people who watch Tamil films regularly in the theatre – hence their opening records etc. I am sure everyone in this thread will be able to point out at least one person who hasn’t watched a Tamil film in a theatre in years. Very rarely, a Baahubali turns up and this person comes out of the woods and the results are earth shattering. What was the last Tamil film that you think achieved this? Maybe Viswaroopam because of the controversy.
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Madan
March 21, 2020
” Yes, Major saab was a genuine hit, but there were other movies in the 90s which were, despite being box office hits, ended up hurting its producers/distributors because Amitabh’s disproportionately huge remuneration ate into those films’ profits.Those films were up on every imaginable box office lists,” – Which are those films? I don’t remember there being a comparable situation to Rajni today. Khuda Gawah and Hum were both huge hits. Agneepath flopped but not because of his fees but because of a general fatigue with angry young man formula as AB visibly looked older and also because the early print of the film had AB speaking in a high pitch (the one we see now has him speaking in his usual baritone). His charging high fees compromised the quality of the films but not the territory rate. Further, at no point was his cult as strong as Rajni’s. He had hits and flops throughout the 80s. Same as Rajni himself, incidentally, through the 80s. He (AB) said categorically in interviews that his role ended with acting in the film and he took no responsibility for its box office. Rajni reached this position because from Badshah onwards watching a Rajni film became like a religious ritual for the fans.
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N Madhusudhan
March 21, 2020
Vijay – Despite those consecutive flops, Vijay had a strong fan following. But the dependability came down substantially. I remember watching Kaavalan 9am show at Devi Paradise on the first day with less than 50% occupancy. But the next show at 12.30 was housefull. A moderate word of mouth was sufficient to bring the fans back. It turned out to be a hit and the following two films – Velayudham and Nanban, despite being mediocre were big hits. And with Thuppakki, Vijay was back big time. It was his biggest hit. And he hasn’t looked back since. You gotta give it to him. Dad politics or not, he brings people to the theatres.
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Alex John
March 21, 2020
@Madan
“Which are those films?”
Well, I have mentioned some of those in my previous comment. Please try googling the budget of films like Sooryavansham, Mrityudada, Bademiyan Chote miyan, Kohram etc. and you can find the box office returns of these films were not that higher than their budgets. I think the other average grossers like Laal Badshaah and Hindustan ki kasam also fall in the same category but google doesn’t give me the numbers of those movies. Now, I learn Amitabh’s salary in that period was more than 3 crores, which shouldn’t be wrong considering he drew a sum of 1 crore in the 1980’s, which brings me to your next point. Amitabh’s fan following was definitely bigger than Rajni’s in 70s and 80s, but Rajni later developed a fanatic cult which would watch each of his films 187 times. Here, I want to sum up what I am trying to say. In the 90s (particularly towards the end of it), Amitabh’s salary was so high that it more or less diluted the contribution of his stardom to his films. Now, if you read the link I gave in the previous comment, you will know the same thing is happening with Rajni’s career now. I am just trying to say this, not trying to draw a direct comparison between Amitabh’s and Rajni’s careers.
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Madan
March 21, 2020
” Please try googling the budget of films like Sooryavansham, Mrityudada, Bademiyan Chote miyan, Kohram etc. and you can find the box office returns of these films were not that higher than their budgets. ” – Sure but…
“But there were other movies in the 90s which were, despite being box office hits, ended up hurting its producers/distributors ” “Those films were up on every imaginable box office lists”
This is the point I am making that, no, those films were not hits either.
List of 1997. No Mrityudatta here. This is gross, not net collection
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bollywood_films_of_1997#Top-grossing_productions
Bade Miya which starred Govinda as I mentioned and also Major Saab which was a genuine hit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bollywood_films_of_1998
No Sooryavansham in the 1999 list:
http://l-lists.com/en/lists/42n4d8.html
This is the point I am making. In the late 90s phase, AB didn’t even have the BO pull to get into the top 5/10 grossing movies bracket. The question of his salary making films unprofitable was secondary to the fact that the movies weren’t doing well even on a gross collection basis (unlike Rajni, whose movies do get good collections at the BO even now). As I mentioned earlier, AB took a break after Agneepath and perhaps that proved costlier than he had expected. When he returned to acting, the three Khans had carved out their fiefdoms and he could no longer compete with them. And this was a major difference compared to the scenario that Rajni operated/operates in. The AB cult remained contingent on the appeal of the films themselves so when the films became mediocre, he lost sway too. This is not the case for Rajni because the fans come to watch Rajni himself first and foremost and quality of the movie comes later. I don’t know if this has been the case for any Hindi movie star. Maybe Salman has enjoyed this luxury to some extent but even his films haven’t lately been setting the BO on fire in the same way as they did about five years back though Bharat still cracked the top 5. Bollywood has always been a more competitive market that way, where trends keep changing and a star can’t hold fort for eternity.
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Honest Raj
March 21, 2020
The superstardom in Telugu cinema usually doesn’t operate at the binary level. ANR was no Sivaji to NTR’s MGR. Chiranjeevi had no real competitor after he became a star. At 45, Mahesh Babu’s star power is not even one-third of Chiranjeevi’s stardom in the 90s.
Coming to Vijay and Ajith, they both know the pulse of their core audiences and choose scripts wisely. That offbeat films like Puli and NKP got the most lukewarm response for a Vijay/Ajith film over the last few years tells more than the stars, it’s the phenomenon that matters.
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Sutheesh Kumar
March 21, 2020
I love watching movies on a big screen because I’m an AV phile and no matter how much I invest on the sound system or the biggest tv screen or the latest laser projector(the setup will set you back a few lakh, might cost you a lifetime worth movie tickets and then some) is never going compete with that professional setup at Cinema halls.
Any BR lovers here from Bengaluru?
Kindly share your best Cinema AV experience around Bengaluru.
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N Madhusudhan
March 22, 2020
@Honest Raj: NKP was one of the biggest hits of 2019. For a film that wasn’t a star vehicle, it made a hell lot of money. I watched it in a relatively popular theatre outside the city with one of the most unruly theatre crowds i’ve ever witnessed. They cheered every time their star was shown on the screen. They didn’t care about the film’s content. It was pretty evident because they kept passing venomous comments against the female lead characters. Similar experiences, anyone?
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Madan
March 22, 2020
“Similar experiences, anyone?” – Other than the female lead character part, this was my experience when I watched Vedhalam. It was maybe less raucous because I watched it in Chembur. But turnout of Tamilians for a Tamil film in Mumbai can pretty much transport you to Chennai for those few hours, for better or worse.
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Honest Raj
March 22, 2020
@N Madhusudhan: Oh, I’m not denying that. Take Rajini’s Valli for instance – it flopped in TN but the Telugu dubbed version was a big hit. All I’m saying is ‘content’ really matters. Despite being a solo release, NKP managed about 2/3rd of Viswasam’s collections in TN.
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vijay
March 22, 2020
“Despite those consecutive flops, Vijay had a strong fan following.”
which itself is puzzling, considering other than dancing he is close to zero in my books in all other departments. He should have been ideally another Lawrence Raghava with maybe slightly better looks. Although if you watch his 90s crapfests with Sanghavi he looked more like a dancer extra than a star. Our audiences stoop quite low some times. Ramarajan had 11 hits in a row I read somewhere, but at least the music was a factor there in some of those films.
I think the spending power of B/C audiences has increased, the taste has taken a nosedive.
As somebody mentioned the 10-20% loud audience is what makes up probably the most of the first 3 day shows
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therag
March 23, 2020
@vijay, Hypothesis: It’s not so much that B/C centers have higher spending power. The B/C audiences of the late 90s/early 00s are wealthier and patronize A/B centers today. The C centre is mostly a thing of the past. The old “A center” audience does not exist today. A.L Azhagappan said in an interview and I quote, “The class audiences do not watch Tamil films in the theatre today”.[1]
This explains the ascendance of Vijay/Ajith (who were popular with B/C back then), the relevance of Rajni (who had broad popularity across classes), and the irrelevance of Kamal (mostly A, occasionally B, almost never C). The sampling of genres in which Tamil cinema delivers reasonably good films is also an indicator. Very few urban romances, a lot of bloody actioners and “thrillers”, a lot of rural based films etc. Vijay and Ajith started off with romances and mild actioners with only middling success. The A center was still valuable money-wise. Fast forward 10 years and your core audience is crazier, wealthier(relatively speaking) and a lot more willing to spend money. They stopped caring about the (dying) A centers and started their annual pandering service. The old A centre audience is very diffuse and do not have the numbers necessary to get the kind of films they want. (Example: Most patrons of this blog)
This is not a Kollywood only thing. There is quite some anger among Hollywood patrons that the need to sell in the Chinese market is diluting the quality of films. Explosions cross language barriers without any difficulty, but at the expense of narrative.
[1] – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoxJRu7m0xU
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shaviswa
March 23, 2020
@therag Agree with you. I hardly go to the cinema halls. And I do not watch Ajith. Vijay or even Rajini films (I watched Darbar after I had skipped his 2.0, Kaala and Kabali). I caught 2.0 on TV (and it was so so horrible) and the other two I did not even bother.
I have given up on Kamal movies long ago. Paapanasam was an exception thanks to Drishyam. It has been ages since I have seen a Kamal film.
I did like some of VJS’ movies. I liked the smaller ones like Maanagaram, Mayavan, etc which were well made films. But all at home. I prefer watching films at home than at the theater. I do not have the patience to go to movie hall and watch a movie any longer. Prefer the comfort of home where I have a big size TV and home theater system that creates enough ambience for me to watch.
So it makes sense for Tamil cinema to pander to the erstwhile B/C audience. They are the only audience now and movies with sensibilities are more likely to miss.
But I thought the multiplexes at the big cities may cater to better films – like in Bollywood. Looks like that is not happening in TN.
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Ravi K
March 23, 2020
What are the A-center people in TN watching, then? Are they streaming Indian movies and American movies and TV shows at home and venturing into cinema halls for the occasional “Baahubali” or Shankar film?
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Madan
March 24, 2020
” Are they streaming Indian movies and American movies and TV shows at home” – That seems to be what shaviswa himself is saying. Would be interesting to hear from young A center kootam what they say (if at all any of them still frequent this blog). In Bollywood, the multiplex genre gives something to watch for A center. And when it’s an Ayushmann Khurana starrer, it has some crossover into small town audience. In Bollywood, war or historical based films are the new tentpoles while 100-200 cr grossers made on a 50 cr budget make up the sweetspot. It’s a middle budget dominated market which is a good thing but don’t know how long it’s going to last and the subversion that this space allowed has already ebbed quite a lot into a pleasant, feel good nothingness.
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Amit Joki
March 24, 2020
rsylviana: Dhanush has been investing back in Wunderbar films but Kaala made a huge dent I guess. Also, he’s not acting in his own production for the same reason I guess. From the many interviews, like how he was grateful that Kalaipuli Thanu paid him for Asuran upfront even before the shooting started, I guess he’s trying to revive his production.
Also, I think he’s short on funds to fund his own second directorial. It was an ambitious period movie with Aditi Rao Hydari, Dhanush, Srikanth, Nagarjuna, Sarathkumar, S J Suryah. But it got dropped halfway and I am thinking the recent signing spree he is on recently is to gather funds for this directorial.
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brangan
March 24, 2020
Ravi K: The term ‘A-centre’ is generally a confusing one.
It’s like saying “urban” audience, which covers anyone in an urban area, across varying cultural and socio-economic backgrounds. A Boat Club resident and a Royapuram resident are both “urban”.
Similarly, ‘A-centre’:
Yes, it’s true that certain kinds of films — like PSYCHO or OK KANMANI — do perform disproportionately well in A centres (as opposed to B or C). But does this mean that the A-centre is a “sophisticated” audience, who will watch quasi-philosophical Buddhism-themed films about serial killers, or slightly transgressive love stories about live-in relationships?
I think not. I just think there are MORE people in the A-centres who will watch these films (than in B/C centres), whereas if you look at the real blockbusters in the A-centres, you are still talking about the Ajith/Vijay films, or a KADAIKUTTY SINGAM — films that do well in all centres.
So the A-centre is not — as someone above put it — the “BR blog audience”. This audience is merely the audience that makes a hit out of PSYCHO or OK KANMANI.
It just happens that because of relative upward mobility (compared to B and especially C centres), you probably have people watching films on streaming instead of theatres. And even these films being watched are the Ajith/Vijay films, or a KADAIKUTTY SINGAM.
Look at the homepage of NETFLIX (Hindi), You will see a KESARI before you see a KAPOOR & SONS. I don’t think the audience itself has changed (in the A centres). I just think their MODE of consumption is changing.
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Naren
March 24, 2020
The economics that drive the industry plays such a dogmatic role that the producers/directors r willing to bend over backwards not just to shape the image of the heroes to make them look eternally “cool” but to mangle reality in ways incomprehensible to the average audience as well. In one of BR’s critiques on “Exodus: Gods and Kings” he referenced Ridley Scott justifying his casting of Christian Bale and Joel Edgerton saying that casting some African actors wud b infeasible as they wudn’t bring in as much crowd. This cud easily be construed as racism but there’s an umbrella right above that called “economics”.
The people here r so hellbent on forsaking content that an important story of Arunachalam Muruganantham’s life was portrayed by Akshay Kumar in the biopic “Padman”. While I’m glad that someone did a movie on that subject and the man, I still think it wud’ve been a lot more relatable had it been a Tamil movie in the first place with some Tamil actor portraying the man. But no no . . . subject of sanitary pads, PMS etc. are taboo in movies even if the reality has been nothing but commendable all over the world. Yet somehow people are willing to watch the pseudo-nude Amala Paul writhe in quandary in what cud only be called a pretentious and exploitative movie with a one line substance [actions have consequences] and a super-preachy finish.
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shaviswa
March 24, 2020
I prefer streaming at home because some of the movies do not even get s release at Hyderabad where I live. And since I avoid Ajith/Vijay films (the last I saw was Arambam and that also was the mudivu), I cannot see most Tamil films here.
Netflix and Amazon Prime allow me to watch good Tamil movies in the comfort of home. And I am sure I would do this even if I were to live at Chennai or Coimbatore.
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Ravi K
March 25, 2020
Baradwaj, that’s a great explanation. thanks. So basically the “BR blog audience” is most likely to reside in an A-centre, but not all of the A-centre consists of the “BR blog audience.”
Getting back to the finance issue, what is the benefit to these distributors who suffer losses on films that might be box office hits? Do they get clout? Does the ability to say “I distributed the last Rajini film” help their careers in distribution? Does that somehow help them make a transition to being a producer themselves? Are some of them just people with a lot of money who can afford a loss and want to buy some association with the film industry?
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Balu
March 25, 2020
@Ravi K – That’s easy. Anecdotally – most of my friends probably watch around 10-12 movies in theater in a year (which still seems way higher than the commenters above 😉 ). That is about 30 hours of theatrical content. They probably spend that much time every week (or every 2 weeks) on Netflix/Amazon TV shows.
On A/B/C centres, there is probably some difference but again without clear box office figures it is hard to observe. It is much easier to see this for Bollywood where data is more reliable. For example,
https://www.boxofficeindia.com/report-details.php?articleid=5802
is comparing Tanhaji and Chhapaak released on the same day. In majority of the country, it is a whitewash with Tanhaji collecting 5-6 times more than Chhapaak. But checkout Mysore region – they are almost equal. I have observed very similar reports where rural/semi-urban centres show vastly different collections to urban centres.
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