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Interview: AR Rahman (BAFTA Breakthrough, Taare Ginn, Ponniyin Selvan…)
Posted on October 27, 2021
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26 Responses “Interview: AR Rahman (BAFTA Breakthrough, Taare Ginn, Ponniyin Selvan…)” →
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Baradwaj Rangan 
vijay
October 27, 2021
Not exactly holding my breath for Ponniyin selvan despite the big names. Rahman”s recent track record is such. Maybe he will surprise us, lets see.
But expecting a longer, more elaborate one with him next time around, where you get to delve more into his current song-making mechanics, what is he trying to pursue exactly etc. etc. Sometimes he can be frustratingly inarticulate but that’s the challenge.
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Madan
October 27, 2021
Brief interview but glad you asked him about Taare Ginn – love, love that song.
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AM
October 27, 2021
Be it his music of the last decade, or his film 99 songs which he also wrote, or his interviews, it is always about pleasing foreigners and getting foreign awards. You do it in foreign films, fine. But why in your Indian work? What is wrong with Indian work presented in an Indian way? Do foreigners try to please India when they make their music or films?
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San
October 28, 2021
I hate saying this but as @Vijya say above Rahman can be very inarticulate and tbh I have seen that mainly with his English interviews. I think he lacks the vocabulary to express complex musical concepts. Most of the time he keeps on repeating the words “love” and “peace” and it can get very annoying. Maybe do an interview with him in Tamil?
Don’t get me wrong, my English sucks too but no one is trying to interview me! Also I am not trying to criticize him for his lack of English skills but all I am saying is that, he does not come out well in his interviews.
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YAML92
October 28, 2021
Thanks for this interview BR!
I hope Ponniyin Selvan turns out to match the expectations!
What keeps ARR going within the commercial cinema music nowadays is only Mani Ratnam and GVM.. seems these two are the only persons who can inspire him to give great music consistently! Let’s see.
At the same time, I am not a huge fan of the “sound” of Kaaviyathalaivan (another period movie composed by ARR in recent times) as such though there was a lot of trademark ARR stuff in it to satisfy a fan.
Also, I love what ARR is doing for music (not just composing) overall. He inspires/mentors people around him, allows them to grow while growing himself! Now if that’s not a great legacy one can leave behind as a composer for the Indian music industry, what else can be!
Glad he’s not just sticking to commercial film composing alone! 🙂
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Madan
October 28, 2021
San: I don’t think it’s only about vocabulary. Rahman is ‘nice’ but not an open person (and he’s been pretty open about THAT anyway). He is generally parsimonious with words so I don’t think he enjoys going into a lot of detail about how he made which song. Even in the FC conversation where questions were opened up to the participants, he didn’t give that many pointed answers. I have also participated in the session with Pankaj Tripathi and he was way, way more forthcoming. Rahman is just not that sort of person. It’s like his filter is big enough to compensate for MSV plus Raja combined (both of whom were unfiltered, MSV in a genial way and Raja in an, er, not so genial way).
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Anand Raghavan
October 28, 2021
Thanks BR for asking about the supposed “unique sound” of Ponniyin Selvan”. Though we can only wait for the output now , I feel he may been inspired to do something different as this kind of movie is not made in Tamil unlike Telugu and Hindi. It might work or might not work but sure it won’t be a lazy attempt and a run of the mill stuff .
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anonymousviolin20
October 28, 2021
I think this might be of interest:
https://theindoencers.wordpress.com/2020/07/16/taare-ginn-tune-diving-extra-edition/
If you’re really into the music theory side of things, this blogger analyzes (mostly Tamil) songs through that lens. Fantastic stuff. Reminds me of some of the stuff Madan has written.
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Madan
October 28, 2021
anonymousviolin20 : oh wow, this is way more in depth than my writing. Lots of intimidating staff notation reproductions and all. So glad there are people analyzing our film music in depth. Curious if the blogger has also analysed any Ilayaraja songs and if so which ones. Blogger says key change from C Major to C Sharp Minor and I say it’s B Flat Minor to C Sharp Minor. Hmm, this is an interesting divergence and I want to check this out again on the keyboard when I get the chance. But other than that it’s spot on. The main reason, though, why that key change is so beautiful the typical pop, indeed Disney, way of changing the key is to come back to the chorus motif and then sing it again in a raised key (Whole New World). Rahman also does this on Oo La La. But here the key change happens as if by a sleight of hand on Ya Irada Hai so if you aren’t paying attention, you won’t spot the change at all. But then, when you land up in Taare Ginn again, it’s in a higher key and THEN it hits you.
For some reason, when Rahman started doing songs with the more cliché type of key change (called money note), audience used to go gaga over it and I would kinda shrug. So I found it so satisfying that he chose to do it in a much more subtle way this time.
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Jayram
October 28, 2021
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The Indoencers
October 28, 2021
@anonymousviolin20 Super surprised to find my article being mentioned in your comment here 🙂 so glad you enjoyed it!
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KayKay
October 28, 2021
These comments about Rahman being inarticulate. He’s just a quiet reserved person not given to expressing himself in so many words. Seen a De Niro interview? Getting 2 complete sentences in a row from the Most Influential Actor of his generation would be a revelation. You can’t get Tarantino to shut up, but Ridley Scott is famously taciturn, answering exactly what was asked and nothing more.
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KayKay
October 28, 2021
Amidst all these discourses about how Rahman’s lost his mojo and prognostications about the Ponniyin Selvam music, it’s a shame a lovely lilting soundtrack he gave for “Mimi” this year came and went without so much as a whimper.
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Ananth
October 29, 2021
I don’t think its vocab issue either. Rahman even in Tamil interviews will veer off into English. His best interviews are with super extroverted celebs (I enjoyed the RJ Balaji/Vignesh Shivn interviews). That said it wasn’t bad at all, glad you were able to coax some stuff out from him Baddy.
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The Indoencers
October 29, 2021
@Madan Thank you so much for taking the time to read my article! Just one correction – I did not say that the song was ever in C Major (your comment says “blogger says key change from C Major to C Sharp Minor”). I say in my article that the key change was from C# Major to C# minor. I think that was just a typo on your comment (no issues if that was the case), but just wanted to clarify nonetheless. If I’ve made a mistake anywhere, please let me know, and I would be happy to correct it.
I completely understand why you feel that the first half (or so) of the song is in Bb minor. I say in my piece that it is in C# Major. Bb minor and C# Major are relative keys (same notes), so the line between the two can get a little fuzzy. I actually agree that in certain lines, it probably tends more towards Bb minor (the opening part before “Taare Ginn” in particular, and perhaps even the first two lines of the charanam). I feel though, that the C# Major tonality is quite strong in the pallavi generally, and especially in the interlude and in most of the charanam before the big key change. Hence, I argue that overall, the first half of the song probably tends towards C# Major. But that’s just my interpretation, and I do understand the perspective where you see it as Bb minor. If you’d like to discuss this in further detail, I’d be happy to.
I did one IR-sir song (Azhagu Malar Aada) a while back, although I probably should do a few more, haha. You can find all of my song analyses here: https://theindoencers.wordpress.com/tag/tune-diving/
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Madan
October 29, 2021
The Indoencers: Yes, sorry, C Major was a typo from my side, yikes!
I actually take it as validation that you think B-flat Major isn’t way offbase. I used to analyse songs in a kind of ‘intuitive’ (euphemism for half baked) way until May this year when Rick Beato (if you have heard of him) put up a couple of brilliant videos about music theory which made it so simple for me to understand scales, modes and chords. I have to still play the notes, identify patterns and then look up what note combinations are in which scale. I am nowhere close to a level where I could just listen or play the notes and immediately say, “Yep! That’s C Major”. That would take a lot of time playing the scales and absorbing them, time I don’t have but want to make for myself.
Yes, you are right, I was going off the initial parts of the antara or the chorus in identifying the scale. I will check out the rest too again and see what I get. It’s possible /likely that both scales share notes which leads to a convergence.
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Madan
October 29, 2021
The Indoencers: I did read your analysis of Azhagu Malarada and it was very interesting. Because that kind of beat is so normal in Carnatic, I never paid attention and didn’t realise that it’s a 5/8. I think people would be surprised at how often 7/8 is used in our film songs. It’s a very natural time sig in Indian music but considered a little ‘odd’ in Western.
I hope you will get around eventually to his more Westernised songs because that’s where it’s at harmonically. Particularly the ones in the rock /funk zone rather his (IMO) somewhat overrated symphonic numbers.
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The Indoencers
October 29, 2021
@Madan: I think you meant Bb minor instead of Bb major, but certainly yes, that wouldn’t be way off-base by any means. Bb minor and C# major have the exact same notes as they are relative keys – they just start on different notes (they have different “Sa” ‘s, if that makes sense, hope it does haha.)
I’m a big follower of channels like Rick Beato, Adam Neely, Listening In, 12tone, Nahre Sol, etc etc – the list goes on! Their content has helped me understand music so much more as well, and I continue to learn from their amazing work. In fact, it is people like these that partly inspired me to start up The Indoencers myself!
And yes, will definitely get to some of IR-sir’s other works! Glad to hear that you enjoyed the piece on Azhagu Malar Aada 🙂
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Madan
October 29, 2021
Yep, B Flat Minor! Oh, the perils of typing posts while at work. 😛
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YAML92
October 30, 2021
@KayKay: Yep, I agree Mimi was a lovely little soundtrack which took all of us by surprise.
However my only gripe is that the melodies in some of the songs were familiar…Like Hututu reminded one of Tu Bin Bataye, Rihaayi De had traces of being a ARR(TM) song for such situations etc.
As a listener, one regularly notices this in songs of other composers – where they have this “heard-before” feel or a sense of familiarity. But at-least according to me, this has happened the least with ARR. And this ability to stay completely fresh always is one of the many aspects which sets him apart from the rest.
But in the last few years, his songs are getting to be more and more familiar which as a never satisfied fan, is worrying 🙂
That said, will take Mimi anyday over Bigil or the other Vijay movies 😀
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Anand Raghavan
October 30, 2021
@Madan: Musically, what actually changed in Rahman of 90s to Rahman of 2010s? Could you explain in simple terms as we notice there is some difference.
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Madan
October 30, 2021
Anand Raghavan : I would say that in 2010s, he cut down a lot of the Rahmanisms that had once defined his sound. This was already starting in the noughties with films like Ayutha Ezhuthu or Rang De Basanti. There were certain signature melodic patterns that he used a lot in the 90s and he started to break out of them. It has come back once in a while when he works with older directors as in both Endhiran and I but at other times, it’s almost completely absent. There were also patterns like interjections of dramatic string sections – Ottagatha Kattiko, Kannambuchi Kelada, Enna Solla Pogirai, September Madham. That’s completely gone.
At a broad level, I would say the 90s Rahman had an element of filmy kitsch that pretty much every other composer before him did as well. He has jettisoned that pretty much now. That’s good and bad. Sometimes that kitsch element can sound unintentionally amusing so you could say his sound is more refined now. But it also makes it a tad bland and harder to differentiate from other composers. In the same film, Dil Bechara, Khulke Jeene Ka works well with the scene but as a standalone track, sounds like something anybody operating in Bollywood would have done. It’s actually in the very orchestrated Taare Ginn that Rahman’s caliber really comes to the fore. Ironic, that, because it’s almost like he too is relying on superior arranging skills like Raja to make his presence felt.
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SR
November 1, 2021
@Madan, I think you meant Kannamoochi Yenada.
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Madan
November 2, 2021
SR: I did, thanks!
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RP
November 2, 2021
Also in my opinion i think the major difference from 2000 onwards was that the ARR sound was replicated by HJ and others and this took away a major factor differentiating ARR songs during his earlier period. And again in my opinion he was never a great melody maker like IR or MSV before him. So once his sound was no longer unique he had to juggle around and find different ways of making his songs tick which proved to be very difficult barring few exceptions.
As per me i think given the opportunities ARR had internationally and nationally he never quite reached the heights as far as music is concerned and i mean background score music and not songs. For someone who introduced his new synthesized sound very successfully in songs, could never replicate it in background scores on most occasions(barring few exceptions again). I mean he never went anywhere in Hollywood not withstanding the oscar. For someone who is so well known there to most producers and directors, he is still not considered at same level as other top composers leave alone competing with someone like Hans Zimmer.
To me its looking like a missed opportunity where he could have punched in a unique sound and impressed Hollywood and got some quality assignments. Again there might be reasons beyond just music at play here like in every industry. But he sure was very well connected.
I think IR’s music style would probably have worked better in Hollywood but his working style would never be accepted there i think by most where the producer/director have more control and say unless you are John W or Hans Z.
Again all just my opinion.
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Madan
November 3, 2021
RP: It would be very difficult for any Indian composer from the ages, including IR, to break through into Hollywood, especially post John Williams and Star Wars. Whether you like it or not (and FWIW I don’t, preferring the eccentric eclecticism of Morricone), that kind of faux-symphonic score is the gold standard for Hollywood movies. And to compose that kind of score, you would need a lot of training in classical music in the first place. OK, I can somewhat imagine IR getting up to speed through his sheer natural talent but nobody else. And to what end anyway…he would not get to compose the kind of colourful, if sometimes loud, scores he can for our movies because they would jar with Hollywood sensibilities. Rahman is a better fit at least with modern Hollywood (as in 2010s where a kind of international sound is used for some movies rather than the JW type of classical score) because he doesn’t have a distinctive voice when it comes to the background scores unlike IR, his signature is limited to the songs. And that’s what Hollywood wants – music that is literally always in the background and almost goes unnoticed. I don’t disagree with that anyway – that works best for their movies unless you are talking noisy Batman movies which Zimmer can amplify further until you get a headache (if watching in theater as I did with Dark Knight Rises).
In any case, by the time Hollywood opened its doors to Rahman (almost exclusively for movies with some Asian/Indian background like 100 feet journey or Million Dollar Arm), he was past his prime and not best placed to make the most of his opportunity. So I am not so surprised at how his Hollywood sojourn has panned out. Had it materialized in the 2000s soon after Bombay Dreams, it would have been better. But I don’t think of scoring a Hollywood movie as a matter of immense prestige in the manner as DIRECTING or acting lead in one would be. For Hollywood, except a few big, old names like Williams, the composer is just another technician and treated as such; I think Raja, Rahman and our other composers are all too nostalgic about the golden age when Maurice Jarre did Lawrence of Arabia etc, that time has passed.
I read a New Yorker article where the weird requirements of directors were mentioned, one such being “can you make it 20% Cuban?” Like what the hell is 20%, this is music, not some chemical solution. I think the below short – though it’s about the client harassing a dubbing artist – sums up well how they treat composers.
Rahman would do well instead to release an independent world music album in English for it’s songwriters who command the most prestige in the US/UK. Raja should have done the same and it’s still not too late at least in theory for him to do it. He should take Karthik/Yuvan’s help to program orchestra sounds on the synth so that he can do it on a low budget (nobody is going to buy albums in the spotify era).
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